Do you like this small caravan model?

[DiverBob]

Alanpeng, I can't add anything to the design comments... It's all been said by other contributors.
 
However, I would underline the comments about quality and robustness.
 
Chinese products have a poor reputation in Australia, being seen as built poorly to keep the price low. Whether this is right or wrong, it is just the way it is. Taiwan, Korea, and Japan all faced the same problem when they first started to export to Australia.

Part of the problem is that Australian conditions are very harsh, and products that don't take that into account don't survive here, damaging the manufacturer's reputation in the process.
 
As an example, Toyota and Nissan overcame the problem by building a 4WD that could survive the Australian conditions, Kia and Great Wall still have to learn this lesson.
 
Cheap campers are plentiful in Australia, but they do not fare well. If you are going to do this, you need to build something that can survive more than a couple of trips before becoming a wreck.

If you are serious, you'll need to trial your prototype. I've trialled vehicles in the past, and it isn't simply a matter of going out for the weekend. Your prototype is going to have to spend at least a month on all types of roads.... Australian roads.... before you know what will break.

I'm not saying you should bush-bash the prototype, but you need to take it the places your target market is likely to take it.... And it needs to come out the other side without major faults.
 
Another thing.... Australians hate being lied to. If you are going to market as an off-road unit, then make sure it is capable of weeks of corrugated dirt highways and the occasional river crossing. If not, then market as an on-road unit.
 
If you really want to trial your prototype, let me know. I normally rent a camper for my annual family holiday, and I normally write a performance report for the manufacturer as a courtesy. Perhaps we can arrange for your prototype to spend four weeks doing what Australians will expect it to be able to do.
 
Good luck with your business venture.

Cheers, Bob
 

[cm4x4nut]

Comments that I have deamed as borderline racist have been deleted and will NOT be tolerated.

Cheers, Craig

[rockman]

Thank you

[Memem284]

Just another note re Chinese vs Australian build. I don't have much experience with caravans (currently have a Jayco Eagle) but have owned 4 different horse floats over the last 10 years or so.
It seems the caravan world and horse float world has many similarities when looking at different brands.
When I bought my last float, I investigated Australian made floats and a particular brand Chinese built float. The Australian made ones were generally strongly made with robustness and safety for horses and owners alike.
The Chinese built one was very flash, cheap in price in comparison, but lacked so much re safety it was scary. Light weight steel frame underneath, rust starting to show on floats still in the display yard! The chinese brand definitely doesn't advertise where it is made and tend to be cagey when asked.
I would suggest, be careful when choosing an overseas made caravan, it may look like it has everything that opens and shuts, but it's what's underneath and how it's built that counts.

[rockman]

LOL .... how short is she ?.

We were all set to buy a Conqueror then at one of the show LB stood beside the kitchen and realised it was so high that she would have trouble seeing what was cooking in the pots on the stove! OK, she may not be the tallest person around but is not THAT short .

Ended up turning us off and we are going to move to a KK now.

[austastar]

LB stood beside the kitchen and realised it was so high that she would have trouble seeing what was cooking in the pots on the stove!

Hi,
  I was looking at a Cambridge Caravan (smaller fiber glass model made locally) but I couldn't stand at the sink and wash-up. The pan of the sink was too low to reach my hands into with out bending my back or standing with feet apart. My feet were too long to stand close to the sink (no foot space under the cabinet) and my face was jammed hard up against an over head cupboard that had no right being right above the sink.


Ok, my Innovan isn't perfect either in foot space department either. It is just one of my pet hates having no foot space under cupboards/benches that are designed to be stood by to work.


So allenpeng, if you are designing from the ground up on a new design, consider some foot-space for us bigger footed & taller blokes for your sink / stove space and working benches.


cheers

[bunyip]

rockman,

I refuse to comment on the grounds it may incriminate me even more 

[Captain]

I have looked into these vans as they are the next type we will buy- if we could find anything on the market to suit- but we are having to look at a 18" foot bushtracker as the only ready made alternative- around 1 tonne heavier than where I would like to be.

The "hybrid" market has one design feature missing at the moment and that is providing room for kids....

My Quantum has 2 kids beds, a single bunk above the main bed plus the table converts to a second bed. You can also get a double bunk instead of the single, for a total of 3 kids beds.

Having 2 kids in the van is a bit squeezy, but you go camping to be outside (hence the outside kitchen) and only go inside to sleep. Many years ago I had a Windsor Rapid but as good as they are, I have found my Quantum to fit my family requirments better.

Cheers

Captain

[bobnrob]

Personally, i don't want to offend anyone here.. But seriously!!!!

For a manufacturer from China wanting to knock off a well built Australian made Camper, by posting onto this forum and literially putting pictures of the product they are about to "COPY" onto this web site and ask for feedback.

Your question can be easily answered!  Firstly... You want to COPY their design. Well if you are thinking about it, then it must be worthwhile. Secondly i am NO longer going to post any of the suggested build tips onto this forum, if people in China are sitting there ready to knock off and copy any good idea that someone in Aussie can come up with.

Firstly, instead of just writing 'I'm going to build a van, what do you think?' Ask 10 people, you'd most likely get 8 varations I what they envision he'd be building. I believe the pic was posted so readers could see what he had in mind.

As for copying & knock-offs...isn't there a build story here where not just 1, but 2 near enough replica of a CT was built...by Aussies?
And what about this CT's build story title/heading "New Camper Build - Cross Between Ultimate & Kimberly Karavan"
Sure, they were copied for personal usage, & not mass production...but mass production could just as easily been the idea!

Do I agree with the what this thread is about? No!
But I don't like hypocrites either.

[rockman]

Well said

 

[rockman]

Well said

 

Seems I have an apology to make
Seems I have offended a few people on this thread ... Lol
Justin , I make a joke that you should delete your thread build , a joke , as you had mentioned that you where going to do in case there where people watching and taking idea's from your build .
For that I will apoligize .
The people that contacted Justin regarding my comment , what-ever !
Actually had a bit of a think about it , those people that I must have offended ,you know who you are ,  here's my email address theearthworksco@qldnet.com.au , if you have a pair , email me with your concerns on how I offended Justin or his camper , he already has .
I will gracefully bow out of this thread and most likely the forum .
Seems there is too many precious people on here now that easly offended if you don't agree with them and unfortunately for me , if I have something to say , it will be said .

[Mace]

Seems I have an apology to make
Seems I have offended a few people on this thread ... Lol

Struggling to see where, have i missed something?

I can see there are differing views on the approach this thread took, but hey, we're all reponsible adults here!

Dont see any reason for Rockman to cut & run 

[bunyip]

I'm with Mace,

A little robust discussion never hurt anyone, not that this has really even got robust.


Bunyip

[rockman]

Same here but apparently I have said ' un nice ' things and a few people have taken offence .
Pretty poor when you can't have a joke about something ... everyone is so
Hell ... I even had McGirr call my camper build nothing more then a pie van ... I didn't race off and have a sook  about it .

[Brett]

I have removed the images from Allenpeng posts.

I dont have a problem with someone asking for feedback on a design of a camper but displaying photos of someones else's product from their website and stating they will copy it, I feel is not on. Now if Allenpeng wishes to display his/her own product images then that is fine, but I wont allow images of someone else's Brand / Logo.

[D4D]

Wow I missed all the fun and it wasn't even in the electrical section

My 2 cents, I'm ok with a DIYer taking an existing design and making a one off for themselves. When you take an existing design and use it for your own benefit, i.e. manufacture to sell, that is where I draw the line. The idea proposed by the original request is bordering on intellectual property theft.

[GeeTee]

That is fair, Brett

From my limited knowledge of this subject what Westerners know as copying or infringement of intellectual property, registered designs etc is absolutely no problem in some other cultures. It is absolutley no issue culturally and legally and in fact is regarded in a positive way - as a form of flattery!

I remember Mike Simcoe, "Mr Monaro" and an executive director of design at Holden/GM saying :"They've even copied our mistakes," in reference to copied GM car designs

The multitude of copied hardware; everything from small gennies, utes and about a million other items is testament to this 'culture'. 

[Dogsbreakfast]

What about looking at these style of vans http://www.conqueroraustralia.com.au/plugins/content/plugin_jw_sig/showthumb.php?img=490/b.web1.jpg&width=200&height=200&quality=80  and http://blondesearch.ru/play/QpauUSmtJmA/UEV_490_Conqueror_Australia_off_road_trailer.html

Everything you could ask for including somewhere for the kids to sleep .

Conqueror australia are one of the biggest price gougers out there. Virtually the exact same models are about 1/3 of the price in sth africa than here.....

[Mrs smith]

Conqueror australia are one of the biggest price gougers out there. Virtually the exact same models are about 1/3 of the price in sth africa than here.....

He didn't say buy one, and anyway maybe it's the price of doing business in this country
that makes em that dear.
Import duty, warranty, advertising and promotion of the product, after-sales
service not to mention the cost of a premises to run from. 

[Dogsbreakfast]

He didn't say buy one, and anyway maybe it's the price of doing business in this country
that makes em that dear.
Import duty, warranty, advertising and promotion of the product, after-sales
service not to mention the cost of a premises to run from.

I didn't tell him to buy one. Merely pointing out that competition is good thing, as without it - the abovementioned business turns a 25k camper into a 70k one. Is gouging included in the costs of doing business in this country.....

[Mrs smith]

I didn't tell him to buy one. Merely pointing out that competition is good thing, as without it - the abovementioned business turns a 25k camper into a 70k one. Is gouging included in the costs of doing business in this country.....

"Rockman didn't tell him to buy one" and I fail to see what gouging or competition has
to do with this thread ?

[Dogsbreakfast]

"Rockman didn't tell him to buy one" and I fail to see what gouging or competition has
to do with this thread ?

if the OP is going to build and then sell campers, then he is the competition - therefore this whole thread is about competition.....

[Mrs smith]

Going to ? one day the world will end too. PMSL

[Woodsie]

Well done Brett, as said , we have an ethical way of doing things in this country.

[DiverBob]

I'm not sure we are all that ethical when it comes to CT design.... Trak Shak and Deluxe are identicle, and I doubt anyone knows who copied who in the KK, Pioneer, AORC, etc vein.

The small 'box on wheels' type is so common that I doubt anyone could hold a patent, so making one more isn't unethicle or immoral.

I doubt alanpeng was saying he is going to copy that example exactly, because he was asking for input into what people liked/disliked in the concept.

I'll concede that it was poor form to use someone else's commercial pictures (those are copyright), but thats a long way from unethical to build yet another small pop top camper.