MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: ScottH on August 15, 2011, 02:36:54 PM
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So the tax account finally had some good news and I can get a second vehicle, but the bad news is that I have a cap of ~$20k to spend. It does mean that I can finally get a fourbie!
So now it's a question of what to buy, and here is where I want the swaggers to chime in and offer some advice.
Primary usage will be for general running around, Scout camps and trips, and twice yearly for towing the loaded camper/boat combo somewhere nice. I'm also hoping to get in several weekends a year of 4-wheeling up around Lithgow, Bathurst, etc with some friends. Got to cater for the wife and 2 growing boys (6 & 9yo currently).
Based on a couple of searches in Carsales.com.au and Trading Post, my options seem to be:
GU Patrol 2002-2004 3L Turbo Diesel
Navara Dual Cab 2005-2006 3L Turbo Diesel (not sure how comfortable the rear seats are for long trips with kids)
100 series Landcruiser 4.5L petrol (ouch on the fuel costs!)
Hilux Dual Cab 3.4L petrol
Landcruiser Prado 3L Turbo Diesel (although I've been told the cargo space is limited, and with kids + scouts, this could be a problem)
I'm not going to look at a Rodeo or Colorado after my experience with my VE Commodore - Holdens are dead to me!
Weigh in with your advice, praise or criticism. Also feel free to send vehicle offers my way.
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All good vehicles, you have allready identified some of their compramises/issues.
Other issues:
how long ya gonna keep it?
how big are your kids gonna grow (hereditary issues)
What does SHWBO want, will she drive it?
Id go 4 the deisel nissan, but hey, my current twin cab rodeo does me fine at the moment.
Have you ever considered a novated or business lease from someone like NLC? Doing something that way mag get you a fully maintained vehicle for a pretty good cost, with all the tax breaks?
Happy hunting, ya lucky S&%$t
:cheers:
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This is just MY personal preference, but I’m sure other will think differently
First choice would be the 4.5L petrol cruiser, but the down side is the fuel bill can hurt. Upsize is they are extremely capable with lots of room for all the gear your going to need with a growing family.
2nd choice with be the 3L Prado as they are a very comfortable 4WD to drive with great fuel economy. You can always buy a roof basket to carry more gear.
3rd with the patrol as they are a very capable 4WD, but past stories of the 3L motor going bang was enough to scare me off buying one.
Duel cabs do have a purpose and I drove my previous one to the Cape and made it without too much damage, but they aren’t a Cruiser or Patrol. Great for the people of the front seats, but if your boys have long legs it’s going to get uncomfortable.
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Prado's are not a bad rig, the space is quite good in the back, a little narrow if anything. If you go with the 3lt Nissan you may need another $20,000 to keep it on the road as the engines are a major issue in those. I believe the 2.5lt Diesel engine in the Pathfinders is a great engine and you may get a Pathfinder for your money. 80 series are great vehicles but are getting along in age, the Standard Diesel is a great truck (Slow) that benefits from a Turbo kit and will go forever.
Regards
Jas
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I bought 02 3L Patrol nearly 4 years ago for sub 20k on road so you should be able get a much newer version for that coin. What ever you do, make sure it is 02 or later. The engine problems people are talking about were the series I and II of the 3L. I haven't had an issue with mine since buying it. Touch wood.
Check out the Auctions at the moment. Or I bought mine through a broker that did it for me. Being winter they are stocked with 4x4s at the moment. As it warms up, prices will go up.
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TD5 Disco 03/04 great 4be, tows my boat and camper with ease, maintance is about $800 a year i like to over service than under service.
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To answer some of the questions:
- Likely going to keep it for at least 8 years.
- Wife will need to drive it occasionally, but it will mostly be me. I'm comfortable driving anything, and am licensed for anything from a motorbike to a semi :)
- Kids will likely grow to be 5'10-6' and heavy around the middle, if they are anything like their dad ;) But given they are currently 6 & 9, they don't take up that much room yet.
- Novated lease is right out, due to my current employer only having 3 employees and not being willing to handle the additional admin required for the lease. The commodore was on a CHP, but to do the same for a 4WD I need to buy less than 3 years old, which puts the cost higher than I'm willing to go for a 2nd vehicle, or would force me to buy something like a Kia or Holden :p
- I will be averaging ~15-20,000kms per year in the vehicle, so fuel costs will need to be a consideration.
I'm aware of the exploding Nissan 3L diesels, but my understanding is that was resolved by 2003, and is no longer an issue if well maintained. Given my VE needs a timing chain replacement (after 64000kms) at a $2500 cost, I'm aware that even the most reliable of engines can still produce a lemon.
Sounds like I need to take another look at the Prados.
The auctions might be a good idea, but make me very nervous as it seems all too easy to buy someone else's problem with no recourse, and no real opportunity to do any detailed inspection ahead of time.
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Is the navarra a D22 or D40?
I've sat in the backseat of a D22 and vowed never to do that again. Even though it was a short trip it was like riding on a bench. It was unbelievably uncomfortable and very painful on the back. Even riding in the back of a Troopcarrier sitting sideways was more comfortable.
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Sounds like I need to take another look at the Prados.
Great idea!
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Is the navarra a D22 or D40?
I've sat in the backseat of a D22 and vowed never to do that again. Even though it was a short trip it was like riding on a bench. It was unbelievably uncomfortable and very painful on the back. Even riding in the back of a Troopcarrier sitting sideways was more comfortable.
Yeah - D22. It's that feedback that is making me question the dual-cab route. When we go away, it's 4-5 hours of driving minimum, and often more like 9-10 hours in a day. The wife complains enough without the kids chiming in too!
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When we were shopping around for our previous dual cab I jumped in the back of each just to check it out even though I planned on sitting in the front most of the time. At 6 foot tall I found the Navara at that time (which would be what you're looking at) had the smallest door space and leg room ( I hit my head on the roof as I got in where I didn't come close in any other models). If you decide to go down the dual cab route I would recommend looking at other makes.
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Go and test drive a SsangYong SUV (only) with the 18 inch wheels
<9 Lt per 100 Klm, drives round town like an expensive vehicle
handles sand like it was a normal dirt road
has high & low range transmission with excellent ground clearance
Yes, I know it's not a huge troop carrier, but is that what your wife wants to drive round town
It will tow a camper or boat like it was not even there
I know all this cause I drive one ;D
http://ssangyong.com.au/Actyon-SUV.asp?active_page_id=187 (http://ssangyong.com.au/Actyon-SUV.asp?active_page_id=187)
I love this link;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qbuQqDS26E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qbuQqDS26E)
where a SangYong does what a toyota don't :-*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCbrqFGmD4&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqCbrqFGmD4&feature=related)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT_FWReB29U&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IT_FWReB29U&feature=related)
Yes, I'm biased towards these turbo diesel 4x4's - that's why I bought one ;D ;D
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The auctions might be a good idea, but make me very nervous as it seems all too easy to buy someone else's problem with no recourse, and no real opportunity to do any detailed inspection ahead of time.
Auction houses are full of flood damaged cars from Qld and other places at moment... then again so are car yards aorund the place. I'd hate to be buying a car right now.
go test drive the SsangYong, just dont look at it, your eyes will shatter
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I have a 100series on LPG and they are not to bad on the pocket, thy good point is that it has the room, can go almost anywhere and pull anything. Because of their size a lot of people with them are trying to downsize and it makes a good negotiation tool for the purchaser. A few thousand saved goes a long way to the extra fuel it might use and the 100 series 4.5L motor is almost bomb proof.
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go test drive the SsangYong, just dont look at it, your eyes will shatter
Yes, they are not the most beautiful 4x4 available, I disliked their look when it was shown to me by the salesman so much I offered him a price soo low I would have thought they would kick me out of the showroom ;D
They accepted my offer and now I accept the look of the Actyon.
One thing about them is, when you drive it down the main street, many guys turn round to have a second look, as they look so 'different' to all the same oll, same oll, square box designs ;D
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Put it away Mainey, my eyes hurt looking at that thing :-X
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Can't speak high;y enough for the Prados.
We had a 90 series that we bought new and kept for 10 years, in all that time the only costs were servicing, tyres and batteries.
We now have the last of the 120 series diesel, purchased in 09 and is just fantastic.
A lot of Prados don't even venture onto smooth gravel, I imagine you could pick up a good 120 series in your price range.
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They accepted my offer and now I accept the look of the Actyon.
probably cheaper than gettin Simm's in to take it ;)
(http://rebelrockrunners.org/andrew/mbp/suicide.jpg)
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If looking at keeping something for a period of time in that price range i think it would be hard to go past a Pardo. May even end up being a good hand me down for a family member .
I do like the Patrol but....
Don't think an early 3L patrol with 300 thou on the clock is going to be a real sought after item in another couple years, but i could be wrong.
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Id go the 4.5 Cruiser even though I drive a diesel. If I had my time over again its what I would get. Yep, they are heavy on fuel when pushed but considering their cheaper purchase cost, longer service intervals, quiter to drive, stronger driveline and cheaper to fix than a diesel it soon swings in a petrols favour.
And any 3.0lt Patrol up to 05 is a ticking time bomb. Go a 4.2td or any of the petrols, bullet proof everything.
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Go easy on the Ssanyong's looks, there are uglier cars out there.
(http://fotos.autocasion.com/img/anuncios/grd/SSANGYONG-KORANDO-KJ-60201424.jpg)
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Hey ScottH,
If you can get one for $20k, I'd be looking at the 4./5L petrol cruiser or a 4500/4800 petrol Patrol. Save money on purchase cost and servicing, and in two year's time when you're over the fuel bill, stick it on LPG. Spreads your investment out over a couple of years, but you end up with a big, capable car. That's what Id' be doing if I was you, given your use case. Heck - given how low the resale on v8 100-series are, you might even be able to jag one of them.
Some carpoint links:
http://tinyurl.com/3sghd5r
http://tinyurl.com/3v7g965
http://tinyurl.com/435klg8 <-- the mighty 4.8L
That said, what we did was buy a Pathfinder for $15k, and sink $5k worth of work into it. Gets you in under your budget, in a modified, capable vehicle that's got all the mod-cons. Granted, a Patrol/Cruiser WILL go further than the little Pathfinder, but the Pathfinder is easier to run as our every day car. We'll probably up-size to a Patrol in a couple of years, and need to start all over again. Those first two Patrols above give you a couple of grand to play with for new suspension /tyres straight up. Alternatively, that's your LPG system money.
If you're going to keep it for 8yrs, don't worry about resale. You'll get your money's worth out of it during that time. Just focus on getting something that will suit what you want to do with it. IE, no sense buying a Jimny if you want to take the whole family touring through the desert - likewise the v8 cruiser wouldn't be my first choice if you only ever go places by yourself, and need to commute 2hrs each day to work and back.
Good luck with your decision - there's certainly a lot out there in your bracket for you to choose from.
Thanks!
Matto :)
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NM/NP Pajero in T/D.
Economical, drive nicely, only marginally less rear room than the full size wagons and more than a Pathie.
Any 4wd- look underneath to check for gravel blasting damage to the underbody. Equally, like brand new is a warning sign too.
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I have had a 100 series petrol manual and it was not bad on fuel considering it's size. Av 16 on the highway and 18 around town. The secret is keep them reasonably STD and only fit barwork if you really need it. Keep the STD size tyres as well. Barwork winches and big tyres cost $$$$$$ at the bowser.
For the money you would be looking at 90 series prados and they ATF hard to find with the sweet td engine.
Have fun.
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1st choice- Prado
2nd choice TD5 Discovery
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GU Patrol 2002-2004 3L Turbo Diesel
Navara Dual Cab 2005-2006 3L Turbo Diesel (not sure how comfortable the rear seats are for long trips with kids)
100 series Landcruiser 4.5L petrol (ouch on the fuel costs!)
Hilux Dual Cab 3.4L petrol
Landcruiser Prado 3L Turbo Diesel (although I've been told the cargo space is limited, and with kids + scouts, this could be a problem)
First thing, go to caryards and test drive everything.. even pretend your buying that day. You will kulll off several of them within 1 weekend due to room, power, ergo's etc... then with a short list go shopping.
For me it would be:
Pajero/Prado
Utes the ride is usually average at best.
Petrol is thirsty, if its not a daily driver it may not matter (after all Stan carried 20 jerrys on/behind/round/in his Playdo on a trip)
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Damn you Queenslanders seem to have much better 2nd hand choices than we do down in Sydney. It's close to justifying the flight and fuel cost to pick one up and bring it home, except for the cautionary tale about buying interstate.
After having the chance to look through a Prado that one of the other scout leaders just bought (albeit much newer that I can afford), they don't seem as bad on storage as I've been told. This seems to be moving up towards the top of the list. A mate has told me of a one-owner 100 series 4.5L that belongs to a neighbour with ~120,000kms on it, and not driven often in recent years. I'm chasing that one at the moment as something with a known history and low kms would be ideal. Given the type of use, I'm even inclined to stick with an alloy front bar and H/Ts for everyday use, and a set of muddies for the fun times - I certainly don't need a winch, etc for the tracks I'm likely to drive.
Failing any joy in that area, my plan is to spend some time on Thursday & Friday at the car yards (less hectic than the weekends) driving anything and everything I can get my hands on, and taking the handbrake along for her input on driveability. I may even risk a look at an auction next week, depending on the catalogue.
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Damn you Queenslanders seem to have much better 2nd hand choices than we do down in Sydney.
Yes because they're all flood damaged... You've been warned.
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Yes because they're all flood damaged... You've been warned.
Technically, any vehicle that was flood-damaged was put on the (surprisingly named) flood damaged vehicles register. You then had a maximum of (I think??) 60 days to have the car professionally repaired and then inspected by QLD Transport. They went over the car themselves, as well as going through your receipts showing the work that had been done. If they were happy, they removed the vehicle from the register, if not, or if your time limit expired, then your car is still able to be driven/registered/sold, but you can't get the VIN off the register (no matter what work you do in future).
So, if you're concerned about a car having been flood-damaged and not repaired, then a quick call to QLD Transport with the details should give you an answer. What you won't be able to tell is whether the car was damaged and then repaired, but I know the inspectors were casting a *very* close eye over the cars that they inspected, so I'd be happy that they had been repaired to a high standard. I know this won't be sufficient for some people, but for most of us who will then drive our 4WDs straight through the nearest mud-hole, I don't think there's really much cause for concern.
A plan ticket from Sydney to Bris isn't much, and it's only a day's drive back - I'd have no hesitation in buying interstate. Obviously I'll always suggest getting an RACQ report done on any vehicle you're interested in, but past that, I think it's quite do-able. We bought our Pathfinder from the Gold Coast, which is about twice as far away. I'd arranged the dealer to take the car to RACQ for the inspection, and I had friends go down there to have a look at it and see if the photos were accurate (it was in even better condition than the photos let on). So we transferred the money to the dealer, and the first time I laid eyes on the car was when I arrived at my Dad's place, fresh off a plane. Granted, you've got cross-state rego to deal with as well, but that's not a huge issue, especially if you're not buying a highly-modified vehicle.
Good luck with whatever you decide!
Matto :)
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Go easy on the Ssanyong's looks, there are uglier cars out there.
(http://fotos.autocasion.com/img/anuncios/grd/SSANGYONG-KORANDO-KJ-60201424.jpg)
Geez I reckon these are from the same family!
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the 3l patrol can be made reliable. just go onto the patrol4x4 website and search N.A.D.S a few mods and a tweak here and there and they are a fairly reliable truck then.
nm-np paj diesel is another good choice. very few problems and a fairly good reliable donk.
as said utes of that era had no ride comfort at all. unless rear springs are reworked.
smaller pathies or playdos are good vehichles if not into the hard 4wding side of things.
or if your after a bulletproof diesel. a gq patrol 4.2 diesel with aftermarket turbo and a few other relatively cheap mods can be made a very family friendly reliable 4wd, tourer daily drive. though they do lack a small amount of comfort over a gu until you mod suspension(roughly 800 bucks for a good 2" lift)
which is the way i went and would do again. though mine now is costing well over 20k with all the mods and stuff ive done to her but im pretty happy with how it all goes.