MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: morgue on May 25, 2011, 09:36:18 PM
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To all those parents thinking of giving ATV's to small children... have a read..
www.narroginag.wa.edu.au/nacsite/Pages/Quad%20bike%20warning.htm#Quad%20bikes (http://www.narroginag.wa.edu.au/nacsite/Pages/Quad%20bike%20warning.htm#Quad%20bikes)
and this one, OK its in the US, but the kids / parents were the no different...
www.atvsafetynet.org/stories.php (http://www.atvsafetynet.org/stories.php)
and to finish off..
newsflavor.com/alternative/atv-and-quad-bike-deaths/ (http://newsflavor.com/alternative/atv-and-quad-bike-deaths/)
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Too true; used properly they are an assett, but when not respected can cause grief
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I just hope this is read by the poster who wants to know what brand of quad bike to buy for his daughter's THIRD birthday. Cheers, Tony
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They are just another risk in life. I've come off a quad, and it hurts! However, they are a lot of fun and in the right hands they are well worth the money.
Aaron
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I don't understand the attraction with quads, motorcycles are far more fun.
Both my wife and I have been riding motorcycles all our lives - she had a bike at 17 and didn't get her first car till she was 22, last year I got the first car I've owned in 13 years - so we are keen to get the kids into it - but not until they are physically and mentally up to it. Which means that none of my three kids will be on any powered vehicle until they are 8-10 years old.
I'm all about risk vs. reward - but a 3-4yo on a powered vehicle is simply beyond what I consider a calculated risk.
My guess is that a lot of parents who buy their kids quads aren't riders themselves and really don't understand the forces involved in a decent crash.
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so if we are selectively picking statistics. How about these
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/B6940E9BF2695EE1CA25788400127B0A?opendocument
Now if there was 77 quad deaths between 2000 and 2007 and there is between 2000 to 3000 deaths a year due to influenza we should be much more concerned about our kids having a runny nose than riding a quad bike?????
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so if we are selectively picking statistics. How about these
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Products/B6940E9BF2695EE1CA25788400127B0A?opendocument
Now if there was 77 quad deaths between 2000 and 2007 and there is between 2000 to 3000 deaths a year due to influenza we should be much more concerned about our kids having a runny nose than riding a quad bike?????
If you're going to quote statistics, quote properly :angel:
The sample set of (kids riding quads) is far far smaller than (kids who can get the flu, i.e. all kids).
So statistically, yes, riding a quad is far far more dangerous than the flu.
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You may have missed my point... I dont care about either...
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Of the 77 people who died between July 2000 & January 2006
8 were aged 0-5 years
10 were aged 6-15 years
11 were aged 16-25 years
These stats from the first link were taken in Australia, these stats show that all age groups are nearly even in fatalities. So why are people insisting that it is worse for a young child of 3-4 yrs old to be operating a quad than an adult when these stats clearly show that this is simply not true ???
A quad is dangerous in the wrong hands of any age or when a young child is under poor or no supervision by a responsible adult.
On most good quality quads the speed can be governed to barely walking speed and therefore drastically reducing the risk of injury.
Its easy for the person who was ultimately responsible for supervising a child to blame the quad for an injury/fatality but the reality is that the blame rests with them for not providing a safe environment for the child. Risk management, training and competency must applied to countless situations throughout everones life from childhood and right through adolesence.
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Of the 77 people who died between July 2000 & January 2006
8 were aged 0-5 years
10 were aged 6-15 years
11 were aged 16-25 years
These stats from the first link were taken in Australia, these stats show that all age groups are nearly even in fatalities. So why are people insisting that it is worse for a young child of 3-4 yrs old to be operating a quad than an adult when these stats clearly show that this is simply not true ???
Again, if you're going to quote stats and compare them, do it properly.
There are no doubt many more kids in 6-15 and adulst 16-25 riding quads than 0-5 year olds.
Therefore statistically the 0-5 year olds are far and away more likely to have an accident, because there are 8 deaths out of what is a smaller sample. There are probably 100x more people aged 16-25 riding quads than there are 0-5 year olds (probably far more).
I personally don't care what age people let their kids ride quad bikes (but stay away from me), but don't use statistics incorrectly in an attempt to support an argument.
It's like saying there were zero 0-5 year olds killed while operating forklifts, therefore they must be good forklift drivers ... of course ignoring the fact that 0-5 years don't operate forklifts and thus the sample size was 0! Statistics and data are only useful in context, taken as absolutes like you have done is absolutely pointless.
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Again, if you're going to quote stats and compare them, do it properly.
There are no doubt many more kids in 6-15 and adulst 16-25 riding quads than 0-5 year olds.
Therefore statistically the 0-5 year olds are far and away more likely to have an accident, because there are 8 deaths out of what is a smaller sample. There are probably 100x more people aged 16-25 riding quads than there are 0-5 year olds (probably far more).
Yep. That's the numbers in context, and it's not good news for 0-5 year olds - and sadly they don't get to make the decision on their own personal wellbeing... their parents do that for them.
It's usually pointless discussing this sort of issue though - which is sad for the kids - because people who are prepared to give their kids quads and dirtbikes at that age generally aren't about to be swayed by reasonable/rational arguments against the idea. And in my experience, and I have been involved in dirtbike clubs since I was a 14yo, so nearly 40 years, the main reasons parents get kids onto bikes at such a young age have little to do with wanting to give the kids a wonderful experience (which it is, no question about it - motorcycling is magic) - but a lot to do with the parents ego.
I've been on the scene when young kids have been badly hurt on quads and dirtbikes and it is gutwrenching. You want to see the parents faces, you might feel differently about it then. As I've already said, none of mine are going anywhere near them for a good few years yet, and I have a garage full of offroad and road bikes and the only thing I bother watching on tv is motorcycle racing, so I'm not biased against motorcycles in the slightest.
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You may have missed my point... I dont care about either...
Darren, if you don't care, why are you commenting? It's a serious topic.
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Yes they can be a dangerous thing but used properly a very good asset ,we are dairy farmers and would be lost without one ,and i was thinking of getting one for our little boy who is four until i come off ours doing about 40 kph and ended up in hospital in neck brace for 4 hours got knocked out but alas all ok then the wife fell off doing about 5 kph and it actually rolled over so now i go bit slower and where a helmet. So now he might have to wait awhile
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Darren, if you don't care, why are you commenting? It's a serious topic.
I actually thought it was an off rd camper trailer forum. Not facebook or somewhere people can beat their chest about any topic. But then again, i have been recently chastised for trying to promote camping on this forum by the powers to be.... so who knows
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I actually thought it was an off rd camper trailer forum. Not facebook or somewhere people can beat their chest about any topic. But then again, i have been recently chastised for trying to promote camping on this forum by the powers to be.... so who knows
Actually this is the heading for this particular board. I copied and pasted it for our viewing pleasure...
General Discussion
Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.
So I guess talking about anything and everything is encouraged here...
Bill and Morag
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I actually thought it was an off rd camper trailer forum. Not facebook or somewhere people can beat their chest about any topic. But then again, i have been recently chastised for trying to promote camping on this forum by the powers to be.... so who knows
Yep I understand that point - and it is a fair point - but off-topic discussion is common to any forum, which is why most have a specific area for it these days.
It's fair to say that a 4yo on a quad, "properly supervised", is fairly safe. The problem is that proper supervision is a rare commodity, which is why I personally discourage people from providing them to very young children. All it takes is for your mobile to ring, or your other child to need some direct attention, or for you to decide "well they went ok yesterday so today I'll watch the V8 supercars while they lark around in the paddock".
And as Jaycamrie discovered, they appear to be quite benign, but when they bite the result could be a bit of bark off, or it could be catastrophic.
I'm done, the information is out there and people are free to make their own minds up as to what level of risk they are prepared to accept on behalf of the tiny humans they are charged with safe-guarding.
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You may have missed my point... I dont care about either...
There's a different forum where you might get a chance to voice your opinion...
"Your Honour, You may have missed my point... I dont care about either..."
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There's a different forum where you might get a chance to voice your opinion...
"Your Honour, You may have missed my point... I dont care about either..."
??????????????
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I don't think there is a right or a wrong in this situation. Some people are just more careful than others. In my opinion the most important thing is just to be aware. If you want to jump on a quad and have a rip, then you run the risk. Although I do think parents have a big duty of care to ensure the safety of their kids on these things. I wouldn't let me 5 year old jump on a bike without learning to ride safely and correctly. But like people have being saying, you could step out in the road tomorrow and get hit by a car and you can't live your life worrying about every risk! Also we do not know the circumstances of the unfortunate events and how reliable the statistics are. You can generalize a group of misfortune but if they are selectively choosing particular facts to promote a point, they cannot be counted as gospel!
I agree with both point, just my 2 cents....
Ride safe and have run ;D
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Sobering facts ? Statistics can and are manipulated to become "facts" to suit the required outcome, now that is what is sobering.
Fact: In the early 1970s straight after the wearing of a helmet became law when riding a motorcycle in Australia the death rate of motorcyclists increased by 20 odd percent over the next 2 years, Why ? Perhaps due to riding harder and faster in the belief that the head being in a helmet made one safer?
Fact: Upon the introduction of "fullface" helmets another spike in motorcycle deaths.Why ? Could it be that the first generation of fullface helmets restricted sideways vision and and in the event of an accident landing on the chin guard area of the helmet forced the whole helmet up and back resulting in a broken neck ?
Sobering "facts" ,make of it what you wish,
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also read this one
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/pedestrian-killed-crossing-road/story-e6freuy9-1225879385298
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Although I can appreciate the concern from some of the posters, life is full of risks. Here's a snap shot of my life in just a week, and why you have to laugh sometimes:
I went to the chiropractor last week and told him I train in karate.... he frowned and said that's not good as there is a high risk of getting a serious injury from that sport. I also told him that I occasionally race a car on the quarter mile..... nope, the sudden jolting and accelerating is no good for my spine. How about the dirt bike riding I do?..... nope, that's very dangerous too. He asked me what I do for a job and I say sit at a desk all day, hence why I try to be active outside of work...... well guess what, the chiro thinks that's not very good for my back either.
My work is encouraging people to be more aware of their health, so they pay for a specialist to check out our health and fitness. During the conversation I get asked if I exercise during the week. My response "Sure do, jump on the treadmill 3-4 times a week and run 5kms"..... specialist frowns, and says that running, particularly on tread mills is the worst thing for my knees. I get asked if I drink alcohol and I say not during the week, but typically enjoy myself on the weekend...... nope, that's bad, binge drinking is worse than drinking regularly. Then I get asked about my diet and I say I try to eat healthy during the week, but like to have a break from eating rabbit food on the weekends..... I get told with that sort of attitude my life expectancy will be reduced.
Having a dinner party conversation and someone pipes up that they saw me riding to work one day. General consensus from the people at the dinner party is that I'm mad riding a bike in peak hour traffic and I should expect to be killed or made a quadriplegic in the near future. We get onto another topic and talk about fishing. I tell them where I fish in my boat and that I fish at night sometimes too.... once again I’m told I'm crazy and that I should expect to die from drowning from my boat being swamped by a wave or if I’m lucky enough to survive the swamping, I’ll get eaten by a shark. I get a similar response when I told them I enjoy spear fishing too....
Haven’t told anyone about the chain sawing I’ve been doing, the gutters I cleaned on our two story house or the 60ft tree I climbed on the weekend to get the kids footy out of it.....
Sorry, I’ve taken a light hearted approach to this, but if I was to worry about everything I do, and analyse every risk I take..... I reckon you would find me naked, curled up into a foetal position and sucking my thumb.
Sometimes you just have to manage the risks and live life! ;D
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Hi,
I'll admit that the thought of small kids ontrolling powered machinery sends shivers down my spine.
However, when we were camped on the W Coast of Tas (Trial Harbour) there were a few small kids riding quads around the village and over the beach and having a marvellous time. No way did I ever think I would approve of this, especially with a pile of kids on the back, but they were riding sensibly at about walking pace and not making a noise or tearing up the ground.
Later in the afternoon, the happiest kid was the one still with fuel in his tank.
On the other hand I lost a friend on a farming property who died as a result of a quad accident. As a retired Professor of Surgery, he would have been well aware of the trauma potential from impact or roll over, but may have been a victim of his inexperience rather than exuberance.
The point of my rant - Life has risks, manage them to the best of your ability. Always be aware that the consequences of failing are not pleasant.
cheers
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My son has been on a quad since he was 5 a 50cc that was wound right back.
He has to have full safety gear (including helmets and boots).
As per my discussion on the thread on this last year would I recommend it? Probably not we are fortunate and live on a little bit of land where he gets to use it regularly.
This Easter we went camping down south with a friend and her family on a private property. There were approx 15 quad bikes of all sizes ranging from 50cc kids to 700cc Raptors and approx 15 kids. I nearly had a heart attack, didn't drink or relax during the day but every single child was wearing safety gear, they stopped at 5pm and couldnt start again until the latest adult was out of bed. If they were silly they got banned and I honestly didn't see one child come off.
At the end we had packed up the Jayco, our sons bike was on the back of the trailer and I was standing around chatting happy that my son had come away without injury (this wasn't due to his skill level so much as normally at home it's just him on his bike and he hadn't had to worry about others on quad bikes around him.
Anyway I suddenly hear this high scream and recognise it as my son's, What had happended? A swing on a tree branch the adults had set up at the beginning of the weekend had snapped and pinned him underneath.
The moral of this story.....this is not something that people are going to agree on and sometimes I think your right and it is driven by adults ego etc, but sometimes no matter what you do its the things that you dont even consider a risk that come back and bite you.
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There's a different forum where you might get a chance to voice your opinion...
"Your Honour, You may have missed my point... I dont care about either..."
??????????????
X2 ??? ??? ??? ???
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Sorry, I’ve taken a light hearted approach to this, but if I was to worry about everything I do, and analyse every risk I take..... I reckon you would find me naked, curled up into a foetal position and sucking my thumb.
Big difference between kids who've not long ago learned to walk, and adults who understand risk vs. reward. Sorry but your point, although valid in that life itself is a risk, is irrelevant to the discussion.
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Big difference between kids who've not long ago learned to walk, and adults who understand risk vs. reward. Sorry but your point, although valid in that life itself is a risk, is irrelevant to the discussion.
Sorry for wasting your time by posting some irrelevant crap. You have just reinforced why I don't bother posting much on this forum...
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Big difference between kids who've not long ago learned to walk, and adults who understand risk vs. reward. Sorry but your point, although valid in that life itself is a risk, is irrelevant to the discussion.
His point and his opinion is as relvant as yours who made you the forum cop?? Some of you blokes need to take a chill pill...deep breaths in and out...
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I'm gunna head off to Woolies and buy all the stock of cotton wool and go wrap my kids up in it. My 2 boys have been racing Motorbikes for about 4 years, only giving up this year due to lack of time. Yer they fall off bit with the right gear they dust themselves off and get back on. Lack of protection with riding gear is 1 of the biggest factors, which at race level why is it compulsory for juniors to where body armour. Beats me why seniours don't wear it.
If you want to know facts, horses riding is the most dangerous recreation going, got that from an Ambo driver.
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Again, if you're going to quote stats and compare them, do it properly.
There are no doubt many more kids in 6-15 and adulst 16-25 riding quads than 0-5 year olds.
Therefore statistically the 0-5 year olds are far and away more likely to have an accident, because there are 8 deaths out of what is a smaller sample. There are probably 100x more people aged 16-25 riding quads than there are 0-5 year olds (probably far more).
I personally don't care what age people let their kids ride quad bikes (but stay away from me), but don't use statistics incorrectly in an attempt to support an argument.
It's like saying there were zero 0-5 year olds killed while operating forklifts, therefore they must be good forklift drivers ... of course ignoring the fact that 0-5 years don't operate forklifts and thus the sample size was 0! Statistics and data are only useful in context, taken as absolutes like you have done is absolutely pointless.
I wonder how a 0 yr old would be killed riding a quad or driving a forklift, would a pregnant mother be involed ???
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Sorry for wasting your time by posting some irrelevant crap. You have just reinforced why I don't bother posting much on this forum...
If things strangers wrote on the internet upset me I wouldn't bother either, and if everyone agreed with me it would all be a bit boring. I don't write because I want to upset people so I'm sorry you took it that way.
This isn't a topic about how the glory of life is lost to people who wrap themselves up in cotton wool, it's about whether the risks associated with powered bikes are worthwhile for small kids. Context.
In the context of your post - surely you can see that there is a hell of a big difference between deciding - as an adult - that you are prepared to cop the possible consequences of taking a risk, and putting someone with undeveloped reasoning and comprehension skills in charge of a powered vehicle? You seem to have kids, why not write from their position rather than your own? I bet you wouldn't be so keen to dismiss risk if it was your kids climbing 60ft trees.
I'm simply playing devil's advocate here, as I've said all along, nothing wrong with it if you provide proper supervision - but in my experience, people don't, and worst case scenario - a kid slams into a fencepost, or is sliced up by fencing wire, or gets their little ribs crushed by 50+kg of flying quad bike and dies because they drowned in their own blood before medical aid could get to them.
See, there are worse things in life than disagreements on the internet.
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His point and his opinion is as relvant as yours who made you the forum cop?? Some of you blokes need to take a chill pill...deep breaths in and out...
I'm engaged in a calm and occasionally thoughtful discussion about a serious topic. What is your contribution to the topic, or was that it?
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I think this thread has run its natural course
(http://blkmav.com/images/boring.jpg)
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I'm engaged in a calm and occasionally thoughtful discussion about a serious topic. What is your contribution to the topic, or was that it?
Wow is that your attempt to put in my place? If it was not so funny I would possibly be offended.
The word "thoughtful" is an interesting choice of words because I see alot of inaccuracies, assumptions and opinions based on little fact. Quoting of statistics that are not properly referenced and that in the five minutes that I took the time to have a look at them and criticaly examin them actually asked more questions then they answered.
I could go on and point out all of the issues however, I will take your line and make an assumption that its a waste of time trying to point this out to people because they won't listen anyway. So there is my "thoughtful" contribution hope you enjoyed it..... :cheers:
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X2 ??? ??? ??? ???
There's a different forum where you might get a chance to voice your opinion...
"Your Honour, You may have missed my point... I dont care about either..."
Its what you might find yourself saying in the witness box at the Coroner's Court.
Sorry if thats a bit obscure.
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Its what you might find yourself saying in the witness box at the Coroner's Court.
Sorry if thats a bit obscure.
No it was not obscure I just thought it is a bit of leap to make an assumption about someones comments and decide they may find themselves in a Court, Coroners or otherwise and thought I best have it clarified...
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This isn't a topic about how the glory of life is lost to people who wrap themselves up in cotton wool, it's about whether the risks associated with powered bikes are worthwhile for small kids. Context.
It's pretty rare to have any thread that is started, on any forum, stay exactly on track. Your impression of what this thread is about is apparently the risks associated with powered bikes and are they worthwhile for small kids..... if you are so concerned about context and staying on topic, why do we then need to know that you and your wife have ridden bikes all your life, your wife didn't get her first car till she was 22, and you've got your first car in 13 years..... so what? What's that got to do with small kids and quad bikes....... swings and round abouts.
You seem to have kids, why not write from their position rather than your own?
Why? Cause I chose not to. I thought the conversation in this thread was getting a bit serious and a bit heated, so thought I might tell you something that I experienced recently, that I thought was funny.... you know light hearted. Sure, it wasn’t specifically about kids and quad bikes, nor was it meant to be serious. Was I really that far off topic? I mean, it's not like I came out and started talking about the best fridge to buy for my camper trailer??
I thought people may take a step back, take a deep breath, maybe have a laugh and get the gist of what I was saying..... So in regards to my previous post, replace references to me, with my 4.5 year old, and replace the seemingly risky things I do everyday, with them learning to ride a push bike without trainer wheels, climbing over a fence, building a tree house or having a pretend sword fight with a branch from a tree with their brother..... any of these seemingly innocent things kids do, everyday, have the potential to cause an injury or death. Doesn’t just take a quad bike.
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I think this thread has run its natural course
(http://blkmav.com/images/boring.jpg)
X2 or 3 or 4 or whatever we are up to now.
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I think this thread has run its natural course
(http://blkmav.com/images/boring.jpg)
X2 X6
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It's pretty rare to have any thread that is started, on any forum, stay exactly on track. Your impression of what this thread is about is apparently the risks associated with powered bikes and are they worthwhile for small kids..... if you are so concerned about context and staying on topic, why do we then need to know that you and your wife have ridden bikes all your life, your wife didn't get her first car till she was 22, and you've got your first car in 13 years..... so what? What's that got to do with small kids and quad bikes....... swings and round abouts.
First of all, thanks for your considered response, Rotare. Why mention that my wife and I ride? Because I feel that it gives some weight to my comments because I also have a 3yo, a 4yo and a 7yo, all of whom have asked at various times if they can have dirtbikes. In other words, I know about bikes, and kids. I also know about the kid/dirtbike combination, as I have had a bit to do with motocross clubs. And I've seen plenty of stupid parenting on display.
I suspect that some of the people here either have no kids, or their kids already have dirtbikes and they are unhappy that people like me are not validating the choice they made.
Why? Cause I chose not to. I thought the conversation in this thread was getting a bit serious and a bit heated, so thought I might tell you something that I experience recently, that I thought was funny.... you know light hearted. Sure, it wasn’t specifically about kids and quad bikes, nor was it meant to be serious. But I thought people may take a step back, take a deep breath, maybe have a laugh and get the gist of what I was saying..... So in regards to my previous post, replace references to me, with my 4.5 year old, and replace the seemingly risky things I do everyday, with them learning to ride a push bike without trainer wheels, climbing over a fence, building a tree house or having a pretend sword fight with a branch from a tree with their brother..... any of these seemingly innocent things kids do, everyday, have the potential to cause an injury or death to a kid. Doesn’t just take a quad bike.
All fair points, and again I apologise, I didn't intend to cause offence. I don't apologise for taking the subject matter seriously, however - although to others it seems to be boring, or a good opportunity to make personal attacks because I'm not making them feel good about their choices.
My kids ride bicycles and I'm in the process of getting my 4yo son involved in BMW racing. Will he get hurt? Sure he will. I'll hate it each time, but I won't stop him from racing if that's what he wants to do. But there is quite a difference between racing a BMX bike and riding a quad bike without adequate supervision... another contributor mentioned that in his/her view the statistics aren't compelling because they lack context and that is a fair comment, but again in my experience the one common factor is poor supervision. Which is the point that I am trying, and clearly failing, to make.
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At the end of the day ....... it is the parents choice and responsibility's to allow their children to do what they want .
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I just hope this is read by the poster who wants to know what brand of quad bike to buy for his daughter's THIRD birthday. Cheers, Tony
Yes I've read this thread,
I am very aware of the dangers of quad bikes having owned them all of my life.
But when used in a supervised and safe environment, with all safety gear i believe quad bikes to be a safe and enjoyable hobby. No more dangerous than swimming or playing in a playground unsupervised.
For christs sake...... I could buy my daughter some Lego for her birthday and she could choke on a piece of it or I could buy her a puppy and she could be mauled to death..... The list goes on.
I guess I could wrap her up in cotton wool until she's 21.
Glenn
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The real worry here is that people who think it's OK to get 3-year-olds to ride motorbikes are also allowed to vote. Explains a lot about what we have in Canberra at present.
Cheers, Tony
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In surveys, 80% of people say that they're better than average drivers.
0% think they are below average drivers.
50% are below average drivers.
We all tend to over-estimate our driving ability.
Statistics aint rocket science.
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Statistics aint rocket science.
Being that was my wife's major at uni, Do you want to tell her she wasted her time. It maybe not quite as easy as you think.
Ffs this is going to be argued forever. The op has made a decision, He is buying a quad. He may or may not see your point of view in the future, But his decision is made now. We have to assume he is going to be responsible and supervise his kids on it.
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The real worry here is that people who think it's OK to get 3-year-olds to ride motorbikes are also allowed to vote. Explains a lot about what we have in Canberra at present.
Cheers, Tony
With a response like that you clearly have NFI. ?
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Whooa K, I think this thread has been let to its own devices long enough. Any unfinished business can be sorted via PM.
Thread is closed.