MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: barneys on May 16, 2011, 09:20:18 PM
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big 4 has undertaken a reveiw of its longstanding no dog policy .big 4 has taken the steps to allow member parks the option of accept dogs .this policy change will take effect from the first of july 2011. www. big4.com.au
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Woof! ;D
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Woooooooooffff Woooooooooooffff ;D ;D :cheers:
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Great news. Hope Big 4 at Cania will allow dogs :cheers:
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one less park chain to stay :(
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one less park chain to stay :(
I agree
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I agree
Couple of canine travel companion haters on here I see ??? ???
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Lost when was the last time you stayed in a Big4 Grrrrr ;D
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prior to welcomeing dogs ,parks will be required to go througha qualifition process to ensure dog-specific infrastructure is in place
what would that be plenty of sticks
bowls of water allover the place
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Couple of canine travel companion haters on here I see ??? ???
Nope, young kids and feral dogs/owners don't equate to a pleasant camping experience. Yes I know generalisation but it is reality.
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I'm sure there will be stringent guide lines that dog owners will have to abide too
I personally don't take my blue where I know he could cause trouble or scare children even though he is great at rounding up my 4 year old twins ;D
I still would not take him to a big4 even after the change..
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I agree
Also agree, 'specially when it comes to small (toy) dogs.
The amount of owners who think their little bag of energised noise is being 'cute'...is astounding!
Though if they also had a ruling of - more than 3 continuous barks lasting longer than 5 sec each in a 2hr period...you're out, then I could live with that.
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Lost when was the last time you stayed in a Big4 Grrrrr ;D
January :P
Nope, young kids and feral dogs/owners don't equate to a pleasant camping experience. Yes I know generalisation but it is reality.
nail on head
add to that dogs crapping everywhere and *some* owners couldnt give a sausage about the turd being in your camp area.
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I'd be interested to see if they allow them in cabins as there are a lot of people that have allergies to dog hair and dander which also can cause asthma attacks what a lovely holiday that would make
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I'd be interested to see if they allow them in cabins as there are a lot of people that have allergies to dog hair and dander which also can cause asthma attacks what a lovely holiday that would make
not all the parks will allow dogs, and usually only outside peak times and still at managers discretion, they are usually only allowed in campsites eg your own camper/van/tent.
However the park we stayed at in Armidale over easter had 2 dog friendly cabins.
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We've been to a fair few dog friendly cps, and honestly, we haven't had a drama. Those with dogs, from our observations, did the right thing by cleaning up after them, they weren't nuisance barkers, they were always on lead and they weren't left alone. In many cases, you wouldn't know the dog was there. I'm well aware this may not always be the case, but this has been our experience to date.
We try to be good examples of dog owners, precisely because we don't want our options diminished. There are FAR more cps that don't allow pets than do, so I think there is still plenty of choice for those that would prefer to be dogless.
I know our dogs are barkers at home, but on the road, its not their turf, and they rarely bark. It's obnoxious people who don't know how loud they are, or do but just don't give a rats, that are far worse IMO. But each to their own.
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prior to welcomeing dogs ,parks will be required to go througha qualifition process to ensure dog-specific infrastructure is in place
what would that be plenty of sticks
bowls of water allover the place
LOL! Love the attitude there.
There are FAR more cps that don't allow pets than do, so I think there is still plenty of choice for those that would prefer to be dogless.
Hear Hear.
I know our dogs are barkers at home, but on the road, its not their turf, and they rarely bark.
It's just soweird isn't it, but mine are the exactly the same. I reckon it's being worn out from the excitement of sniffing new trees and breezes, or swimming in the creek, or having to look out the window for hours on end.
Personally I don't stay in CVP's if I can help it for 3 reasons:
A: Feral People / Feral Kids
B: Feral Generators / Feral Toilet Block Users
C: Feral Dog Owners (the dogs can't help what they aren't taught).
These 3 reasons keep me at camping sites that are easier to stomach than others. There is nothing worse than having to camp beside (and I mean so that you may hear them snore or do "it" or worse) or within ear shot of people who just don't give a festered rodents rear-end.
Give me peace, solitude and heaps more than 5 stars please.
Kit_e
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Idont mind caraparks being dog friendly as long as it,s well signposted and I can see it before I get into the park, so I can keep going. That said my intention is to never stay in a carapark with a campertrailer.
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i stay in parks for the feeling of safety that my wife gets
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Cut n paste from Big4's respons to me. ;D
BIG4 has decided to allow BIG4 Holiday Parks the option to accept dogs from 1 July 2011. While some BIG4 Holiday Parks will decide to welcome dogs in their park, not all BIG4 Parks will accept dogs. Parks that choose to accept d...ogs are required to go through a qualification process to ensure dog-specific infrastructure is in place to meet BIG4’s high quality standards. We pride ourselves on the high standards, great facilities and friendly and welcoming environment of BIG4 Holiday Parks and have quality control measures in place to ensure these standards are met – and that will not change. Detailed information will be available on BIG4.com.au in late June. :cheers:
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not all the parks will allow dogs, and usually only outside peak times and still at managers discretion, they are usually only allowed in campsites eg your own camper/van/tent.
However the park we stayed at in Armidale over easter had 2 dog friendly cabins.
What, you mean the cabins didn't eat the dogs ;D.
And if I see a dog crap and not get picked up I get it and over night put it on the door step of the owners van. Childish I know but so much fun
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And if I see a dog crap and not get picked up I get it and over night put it on the door step of the owners van. Childish I know but so much fun
Have done that once myself >:D I was out walking our dog, when I noticed a woman (grey nomad) who's pooch stopped for a #2, she carried on walking without cleaning up >:( granted it was outside of the park but not the point. I said excuse me I think your dog left something back there, that's one reason why parks and other places ban dogs. she just looked at me and kept walking.
Late that night I just happen to walk pass her van >:D yep a small present was left on her step.
next morning while I was out walking noticed them drive out with van in tow. she looked at me and I just gave them a friendly wave. ;D
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Ninja Bushman :cup:
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Will be good thing but ONLY if the rules are enforced. Our gathering at sandy creek had plenty of dogs and all the owners did the right thing and it was not a problem .I did not even see a poo all weekend let alone barking.
So it will be one of those things where the park managers will have to be militant in it's application so as the people who do the right thing don't get tarred with the same brush.And like sandy creek those who think the dog rules don't apply to them can go walkies.
Jetcrew :D
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Nope, young kids and feral dogs/owners don't equate to a pleasant camping experience. Yes I know generalisation but it is reality.
And this is why I hate caravan parks all those ferrel CHILDREN that parents don't look after running around screaming and yelling annoying every other camper
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When I started reading this thread I was of the opinion that I wouldn't stay in a dog friendly CP but the more I think about it the more I hope that these places have a dedicated area and not mix in with the general population.
Having said that why on earth would you travel with animals (I own 2 dogs). Keeping water up to them and toilet breaks on long drive days and limited places to stay etc. To me it just doesn't make for a nice holiday but I guess it is up to the individual.
Further to oldblade's comment, that is so true. We have a 8yo and 5yo and are really strict and aware on noise affecting fellow campers. We stayed at Treasure Island over Easter this year and the amount of kids riding bikes and scooters at 6.30am with no helmets pissed me off to no end. There is a curfew up to 8.00am. Also the amount of small kids ie under 8yo with absolutely no adult supervision riding scooters, bikes and those buggy/carts at Treasure Island. I nearly cleaned one up and that was driving at less than 10km/h. Also nearly drove over the top of a trike a small child left in the middle of the road while mum and dad were having pre-dinner nibblies and drinks.
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This is always the problem ,people read the rules and then assume they don't appy to them. Then the new person turns up and see's that the accepted practice is to do whatever you want ,then it all turns to crap.
As a great saying goes "RULES IS RULES JACKO" and I like to know that everyone is made to follow them.
Why on earth park owners / managers don't tell people that the terms and conditions are a contractual agreement which outline the acepted behaviours and failure to comply with them will result in termination of the agreement. And a trip home.. Park owners need to be more pro active.
From what i've seen at big4 parks this will be a disaster. But the first person that gets biten will at least have a multi national to lodge a satemant of claim to..LOL
Jetcrew ;D ;D
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Having said that why on earth would you travel with animals (I own 2 dogs). Keeping water up to them and toilet breaks on long drive days and limited places to stay etc. To me it just doesn't make for a nice holiday but I guess it is up to the individual.
Because they're heaps easier than kids and they make excellent bed warmers ;D
Try it, you might like it, the dogs certainly would I reckon! Our guys sleep on the back seat and need pit stops less than we do. We just give them water then. Too easy.
As for places to stay, there are plenty, but it does pay to be organised. The trade off is of course you can't go to National Parks, but there are still plenty of options pretty much wherever you go.
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Because they're heaps easier than kids and they make excellent bed warmers ;D
Try it, you might like it, the dogs certainly would I reckon! Our guys sleep on the back seat and need pit stops less than we do. We just give them water then. Too easy.
As for places to stay, there are plenty, but it does pay to be organised. The trade off is of course you can't go to National Parks, but there are still plenty of options pretty much wherever you go.
could not agree more unfortunatly we lost both our boys only a few months back but they came everywhere with us and were always tied up never barked and loved sitting around the camp fire
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It's about time Big 4 changed their ways, they loose a lot of travellers because of this policy. If we have our dogs we have always kept away from the big4's, Top Tourist Parks are the best ones. I think the policy that you pay a $50.00 deposit for your dogs, if you don't abide by the rules you are asked to leave and loose your deposit. It seems to work so those poor campers who don't like our 4 legged friends well so sad, we wouldn't travel any other way. :cheers:
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January :P
nail on head
add to that dogs crapping everywhere and *some* owners couldnt give a sausage about the turd being in your camp area.
I dont want to start a big argument so please take this in the way its intended.
I have a large (40kg) and a medium dog (20kg) and to be honest most people wouldnt even know that they were there.
In the same respect we have been in caravan parks, and camp areas, where soem parents couldnt give a toss if their kids took a turd in the middle of my camp site :P
I think to generalise all dog owners is a bit like trying to generilise all parents.
Just my two cents.
Welchy
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Because they're heaps easier than kids and they make excellent bed warmers ;D
Try it, you might like it, the dogs certainly would I reckon! Our guys sleep on the back seat and need pit stops less than we do. We just give them water then. Too easy.
As for places to stay, there are plenty, but it does pay to be organised. The trade off is of course you can't go to National Parks, but there are still plenty of options pretty much wherever you go.
same with our two
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We all have different views on this matter, I believe that all travellers with dogs & children should be considerate towards fellow campers, parks etc. With the deposit idea for dogs I do seriously think they should have one on kids too as like a few have said they start quite early in the mornings with their bikes etc (probably letting mum & dad have a sleep in). I have grandchildren and when we have travelled with them we try to be considerate and take them and the dogs away from the park in the mornings so not to disturb our fellow campers. It's a shame when you are travelling that you can't go into National Parks with dogs on leash's at least...but that's the rules - I guess
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With the deposit idea for dogs I do seriously think they should have one on kids too
WTF ??? most holiday parks charge extra for kids already, howabout dog owners pay the same fee as what parents get charged for their kids ???
Dont go to CP/holiday parks if you dont like others disrupting your daily routine >:(
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Yeah I know you pay extra for kids - I too have grandchildren, but with our 4legged friends the idea of a deposit is great idea, makes the owners be sensible and respect the facilities & campers. I do believe the extra that you pay for each child is ridiculous, what about the people who have airconditioners compared to the ones who just have fresh air or maybe a fan, they get charged the same fee don't they!! But anyway I'm going onto a different blog. :police:
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In alot of dog freindly caravan parks you already do have to pay a fee for your dogs (even thought its dogs friendly). I do not agree with the deposit idea because how am i supose to proove that it was next door's dog that started barking all day / night, and then my dog barked once before she was told to be quiet?
We try and avoid caravan parks if possible, but unfortunaltey they are a neccesary evil when it comes to wanting a nice hot shower and to recharge the batteries and water every now and again.
Personally, we have more problems with other people's kids than other dog owners. We try and camp on our own, but unforntuanley times such as easter etc everyone is doing the same thing. We often leave our dogs tied up to our camper and when we come back and take them for a walk, people often comment that they didnt even realise they were there.
Making generalised statements is silly, but i do understand that rules are for the general public.
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If I can make one plea, please don't leave your dog unattended, inside or outside, but especially outside. It's actually an offence in many councils, even if they are restrained. You don't know how your dog may react in a strange place without your presence, they could be stolen, let off deliberately or accidentally, baited, fed without your knowledge, get tangled up and are then in full sun, or could be accused of biting someone or it actually might happen, even if you believe your fluffy would never hurt a fly. It's just not worth the risks.
Sorry for the hijack, but it's an important point.
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I'd rather share the park with dogs than some of these feral rug rats that run amuck these days. At least you can dicipline your dog without being locked up as it understands concequences of it's actions. Not so for many of todays kids. >:(
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Dog Fee! Haven't been charged for the dog yet, guess I will sooner or later
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We have only been charged once at (Tinnaroo Dam-Nth Qld), have gone to Conway Beach, Kurramine - no charge. Anyway I still think it is great that Big 4 is changing but heh it will only be some parks not all, same as Top Tourist Parks most let you have dogs but their is still some that don't. :cheers:
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I have no dramas with a dog bond. No reason you shouldn't get it back, provided you do the right thing.
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Nothing wrong with dogs in CP, as long as they are supervised/restrained when needed.
Many a ferel child has disrupted a stay in a van park, with no appolige wat so ever from the parent.
Do the right thing no problem, if you dont like it go some where else i say.
By the way i have a dog, and its a great mate.
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I once rang a park on the NSW South Coast ask enquired about taking a dog, the voice on the other end of the phone said "no problem mate, I'd rather have the dogs than the bloody kids" >:D
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So are we angling towards the suggestion that Big 4 should review their Children Policy and let the dogs alone for a bit? >:D
Kit_e
Kids 0 - Dogs 2 - My choice
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So are we angling towards the suggestion that Big 4 should review their Children Policy and let the dogs alone for a bit? >:D
Kit_e
Kids 0 - Dogs 2 - My choice
yup
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Someone put a Poll up...
I would be interested to see people’s thoughts.
Friends of ours have a lovely Black Lab that I gladly go camping with, but you can't expect it to be tied up all the time and once it wandered close to someone else camp FFS that bloke lite up and sent the dog on it's way... Fair enough but if my mate was a different bloke there could have been a blew on and a miserable weekend...
If one of your dogs came near my camp am I allowed to kick the bloody thing and send it on its way with your blessing, probably not (mind you I wouldn’t do that anyway) and what happens about blewing dogs.....
I for one won't be paying any camping ground $'s to share it with Dogs unless of course we had a dog ourselves “that is my choice”. I expect that some people feel like it is alright to take dogs when camping at a Public camping ground and we live with that but I still wish people would leave them at home…
Dog Shit don’t get me started…..
Lastly... Just wondering are there unwritten rules people should know before they take dogs camping. Tying up, dealing with Shit, barking, fighting… etc etc
BTW we have a dog a Maltese and there is no way we would take her camping as she’d bark at everyone and try bite you too… we are looking at getting a little Pug and I hope it will be a good camper… Note that I am not against camping with dogs just other peoples dogs when we don’t have one ourselves… pretty frigg’n selfish
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Lastly... Just wondering are there unwritten rules people should know before they take dogs camping. Tying up, dealing with Shit, barking, fighting… etc etc
As for rules ... I believe every council in Australia has a encyclopedia sized book full of rules that dog owners must obey no matter where the puppy steps.
Being a dog owner myself, I believe the rules are there to protect my dog from the general public with no dog sense at all.
They are fairly well behaved (95% of the time) and under my control at all times ... which means chained or on leads with me. When visiting places of interest, my pooches were treated to a doggie holiday house, day care or left with an adult at camp. Dogs get used to this and adapt really well. Yes they are my fur babies, but they are dogs foremost and are treated as such.
That said ... some owners think it's their god given right to let them loose and pretend they don't exist till it's time to return home (as with their kids), and give the rest of us a bad name.
Just call out before entering my camp site or they might give you a scare (as Rottweillers and Cattle Dogs tend to do just by being large), but it's those little white yappers you really have to watch out for!
Kit_e
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I've got 2 daughters, 1 and 3. They're good kids, we pride ourselves on making sure they're brought up well, respectful and well mannered the same as we were brought up when we came through. But all the same, they're kids and they rise early, talk and laugh loudly, even with us shooshing them down at 6.30 in the morning for the sake of others. Kids do that and i know i and all here did that when we were the same age. I'm not going to apologise for my girls acting their age and after reading through this thread, to be honest, i think i'd rather camp on our own than talk to others anyway. All i see is a group of killjoys that can't remember when they were young
Listo
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my 2c worth: you get the good, the bad and the ugly at every public camping ground (and that's just the dog owners) if your not prepared to tolerate people and their dogs don't stay there, sorry but reality sucks sometimes.
troy :cheers:
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I,ve read the whole thread agian. and have come to the following conclusion.
Alot of dog owners want to justify thier dogs behaviour by passing the attention to small children.
The thread is about a dog policy and many dog owners have attempted to make it about small children, now I don't want to start a CAT fight.LOL ;D
But if you do not like small children playing and making noise, then a big 4 is prob not for you regardless of if you have a dog or not. They are family focused and try very hard to attract families with children ,and have built a sucessfull business doing so.
I understand that the vast majority of dog owners do the right thing however to say that children are just as bad is nonsense, unless the kids are taking a dump at your camp or trying to bite you. >:D
We recently had our gathering as mentioned and with many kids and dogs there and no one had a problem at all , Dog owners kept the dogs on a lead at all times and the rules were read out to the kids about the dog having thier own space around thier lead/chain.Parents kept kids quite when required.
Dogs were walked each day and even taken well away from the camp ground for a little off lead time. If required
It can work for everyone to have dogs,kids and even drunken husbands at one campground but it just depends on the people. I'd like to think that myswag will always be the example to others.
Jetcrew :D :D
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I,ve read the whole thread agian. and have come to the following conclusion.
Alot of dog owners want to justify thier dogs behaviour by passing the attention to small children.
The thread is about a dog policy and many dog owners have attempted to make it about small children, now I don't want to start a CAT fight.LOL ;D
But if you do not like small children playing and making noise, then a big 4 is prob not for you regardless of if you have a dog or not. They are family focused and try very hard to attract families with children ,and have built a sucessfull business doing so.
I understand that the vast majority of dog owners do the right thing however to say that children are just as bad is nonsense, unless the kids are taking a dump at your camp or trying to bite you. >:D
We recently had our gathering as mentioned and with many kids and dogs there and no one had a problem at all , Dog owners kept the dogs on a lead at all times and the rules were read out to the kids about the dog having thier own space around thier lead/chain.Parents kept kids quite when required.
Dogs were walked each day and even taken well away from the camp ground for a little off lead time. If required
It can work for everyone to have dogs,kids and even drunken husbands at one campground but it just depends on the people. I'd like to think that myswag will always be the example to others.
Jetcrew :D :D
X9000209320987098262862 couldn't have said better ;D
troy
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Well said! ;D
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I,ve read the whole thread agian. and have come to the following conclusion.
Alot of dog owners want to justify thier dogs behaviour by passing the attention to small children.
The thread is about a dog policy and many dog owners have attempted to make it about small children, now I don't want to start a CAT fight.LOL ;D
But if you do not like small children playing and making noise, then a big 4 is prob not for you regardless of if you have a dog or not. They are family focused and try very hard to attract families with children ,and have built a sucessfull business doing so.
I understand that the vast majority of dog owners do the right thing however to say that children are just as bad is nonsense, unless the kids are taking a dump at your camp or trying to bite you. >:D
We recently had our gathering as mentioned and with many kids and dogs there and no one had a problem at all , Dog owners kept the dogs on a lead at all times and the rules were read out to the kids about the dog having thier own space around thier lead/chain.Parents kept kids quite when required.
Dogs were walked each day and even taken well away from the camp ground for a little off lead time. If required
It can work for everyone to have dogs,kids and even drunken husbands at one campground but it just depends on the people. I'd like to think that myswag will always be the example to others.
Jetcrew :D :D
Jet Crew,
I'm sorry if you have taken my comments that way. That is not what i intended. I am by no means trying to justify other dog owners behavour, if your dog is not under voice control, good with other people and generaly well behaved, then dont camp with other people. It was not my intention to say that kids cannot be kids, yes kids make noise, they run around, ride their bikes and climb trees and you are right we were all kids at some point(some of us might still be on the inside ;D ). And i would think the vast majority of people would agree.
All i am saying is that i take offence when people group me and my dogs into the same catagory as "that stupid dog last week". The only point i was trying to make was that an inconciderate person, is an inconciderate person. This is regardless wether they have problem dogs, problem kids, leave rubish lying around, drive down the beach drunk or any other thing you can think of.
Please dont take anything said on here as a personal attack on you or your family. Most of us on here are a friendly bunch ! 8)
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Wow...!
I've just caught up on this thread and I have to say I'm a little dismayed by some of the unkind generalisations that have been made about kids and dogs and their parents/owners. Yes there are bad examples of both but its very unfair to apply those opinions to everyone.
If that attitude was applied to everything, 4wd's would be banned, all parks would be closed to campers, you couldn't take your trail bike anywhere and forget having a generator.
We don't have kids (nature's choice) but we do have dogs and if we do take them with us, we are extremely careful to make sure they are no trouble to anyone.
Come on Swaggers....I think we all a little more enlightened than this.
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Personal choice is the go. I got rid of my dogs when I moved to town for a few reasons, and get offended when I can even hear a dog bark. That being said, do what you want but in the process have some consideration for others around the park. Like the fridge debate, no one will win this argument.
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Wow,
I have a seven year old boy and probably stay in a Caravan Park a couple of times a year (the times that I do are for my son). My best memories of my family holidays' are staying in Caravan Parks and running a little bit wild with all of the other kids.
By the same token I love to see my son do the same (the kids tend to form a little swarm and have fun riding their bikes in a pack and going from new friend tent to new friends tent.) This hasn't changed as I can remember doing it when I was a kid (and I'm now nearly 40).
I think its a little bit sad that this is one of the few places where kids can have a little bit more freedom than normal (note a little bit more freedom not unsupervised) and people are getting upset about it. Although maybe this is a natural progression (I knew I was getting old when I started glaring at the local teenagers that gathered in the park - although I would have been one of those teenagers just 10 years earlier).
I think these days perhaps we all need to give and take a little bit more and some people are just looking for a reason to be annoyed or offended.
Life's too short for worrying about the little things and sometimes we concentrate so much on those that the big things pass us by - NB This reply is not too anyone in particular and was not intending to offend
PS I also always take my 18month old Dalmation camping with me - we always pick up after him and he's not a Barker.
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We have been camping with many people who have dogs ( and some are with my swag ) and even though I don't have a dog ( and think they are a hindrance when camping )......have had no problems at all with the dogs they took along (same can't be said for some others that we have had to share campgrounds with )
Main point was the dogs as a whole were well behaved....and if the owner knew his dog wasn't going to be, it was restrained......thats what a responsible dog owner is all about..
But, when you go camping and you meet a dog that is not well behaved/restrained and the owner has the opinion that his little ( or big ) mutt is a softy and wouldn't hurt a fly and refuses to keep it out of others "private" space, then that is an irresponsible owner............but if he was a responsible owner and wanted his dog to roam free, he would at least come over and ask and then introduce his dog and see if the person was willing to accept..
Dogs and kids ???? you get good and bad, but most are a reflection on the owners !! :police:
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Gronk - I agree totally with you dogs & kids are a reflection of the owners (Well said) :cup:
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Jet Crew,
I'm sorry if you have taken my comments that way. Please dont take anything said on here as a personal attack on you or your family. Most of us on here are a friendly bunch ! 8)
All good mate I did not take yours or anyones else's comments in a negative fashion , :D :D :D :D
Everyone here has added valuable input to this topic , and it's these differences that can be shared without the personal attacks that are so ever present on other forums and society that set Myswag aside.
Been a great topic and it now has come to the point where both sides seem to have found common ground and Gronk said it well Dogs and kids ???? you get good and bad, but most are a reflection on the owners !! :police:
so very true and the core of the issue IMHO.
Jetcrew :D ;D :D ;D
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are these dogs allowed in big 4 Why Dogs Bite People
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I think its a little bit sad that this is one of the few places where kids can have a little bit more freedom than normal (note a little bit more freedom not unsupervised) and people are getting upset about it.
I agree. I think some people forget how they behaved when they were 2-15yrs old.
I also can see their point with kids screaming and yelling till all hours of the night when old people are in bed at 8pm. Thats why they get upset. A bad night sleep sux. But so do barking dogs and landmines.
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Interesting thread.
I must be one of 'those' people?
I go camping with 3 kids, 2 dogs and my trail bike. All I need now is an old or 2 stroke genset to run 24/7, maybe carry a rifle for 'personal protection' and I'll be the complete package!
Run for the hills...
Kylarama, coming to a camp ground near you!
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Just as long as you don't take a quad bike :)
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Just as long as you don't take a quad bike :)
Unregistered and without a helmet of course!
That reminds me. I need to take the baffles out of the exhaust on my bike. Helps it warm up quicker for those 6am rides!