Author Topic: Flash Floods  (Read 54308 times)

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Offline Sharky

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #150 on: January 06, 2011, 11:21:26 PM »
These next shots are from around Surat.

The first is of the southern side of the town. The road is actually cut in about 5 places between Surat and St George.


This is the northern side of Surat with the Balonn River runiing along the edge of town.


This is the access road to the north.


The road is underwater for a rather long stretch - may be a while before this re-opens.


The road from the northern end.


This is the Balonne River - that's a lot of water to find it's way through the Murray Darling System.


My hat comes off to the locals around here who  have only had 10 months to recover from the last 100 year flood.
Fortunately the flood level looks like being a bit lower than last time - good news for a couple of very nervous towns.

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Offline Barry G

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #151 on: January 06, 2011, 11:54:50 PM »
Steve & Speewa,
I think we three are probably in furious agreement - however I am always wary of 'blame the gubinment', as there are those with there own agendas wanting to whip it into a firestorm.
Sharky,
Thanks for those photos.  When I was in S. W. Queensland last year I was amazed that, given the long standing historic and recent evidence of flooding in towns like Charleville and Roma, houses are not being built in the old 'Queenslander' (elevated) style, but rather as suburban slab on ground.
It must be really hard for people who need to live in such towns but are effectively forced to buy houses which will inevitably be flooded.

In Victoria it simply isn't legal to build with a floor level less 300mm above the designated flood level.
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Offline SteveandViv

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #152 on: January 07, 2011, 09:40:43 AM »
So for those that know. How far will this water actually go down the river systems. Will any god come out of this?
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #153 on: January 07, 2011, 09:57:57 AM »
So for those that know. How far will this water actually go down the river systems. Will any god come out of this?

Steve, was talking to the local constabulary here yesterday and we were discussing the big cotton stations down stream (e.g. Cubby) Most of the catchments at these stations are already close to full from the last flood event so there is no capacity to store any of this recent water.

The Darling and Murray are already flowing nicely so this will just top up those systems. Most of it will flow into the Darling and end up flowing out the Murray mouth in a few months time.

I'm going to Goolwa, S.A. in late February with work and it's strange to think that the water we are watching up here now will soon enough be flowing past that township.
One thing the police did mention was the difference between this flood and the last one in March. The March event was the first in a long time so it cleared out a heap of rubbish from the river system. That debris is just not there this time so the river is apparently flowing better without the debris causing havoc as it moves downstream.

Sharky,
Thanks for those photos.  When I was in S. W. Queensland last year I was amazed that, given the long standing historic and recent evidence of flooding in towns like Charleville and Roma, houses are not being built in the old 'Queenslander' (elevated) style, but rather as suburban slab on ground.
It must be really hard for people who need to live in such towns but are effectively forced to buy houses which will inevitably be flooded.

In Victoria it simply isn't legal to build with a floor level less 300mm above the designated flood level.

Barry, You're quite right - we've seen a number of houses built on slabs right next to a queenslander on posts - building above the flood levels just makes sense. Can't explain how it's permitted - just seems crazy.

 :cheers:
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Offline Duchess

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #154 on: January 07, 2011, 02:45:27 PM »
Sharky, thanks so much for all those images. They were a great picture of what is going on up there. What were you flying around in, as it looks like you got a terrific view!?


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Offline Sir Kev + Darkie

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #155 on: January 07, 2011, 04:01:02 PM »
Quote
You're quite right - we've seen a number of houses built on slabs right next to a queenslander on posts - building above the flood levels just makes sense. Can't explain how it's permitted - just seems crazy.


It isn't permitted in Queensland. New dwellings must be built 300mm above the 1 in 100 year flood height if known or 300mm above the highest recorded flood level.

Chinchilla doesn't have a flood study so we go by the highest known flood height which is 303.41m AHD. Therefore the minimum FFL must be 303.71m AHD

For those who are on facebook

There is a heap of info on the flood in the St George region http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=lf#!/group.php?gid=341685555387

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Offline Sir Kev + Darkie

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #156 on: January 07, 2011, 04:05:59 PM »
To see the water from the march 2010 flood check out near map

http://www.nearmap.com/

The water in St George is pretty much the same now as it was back then.
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Offline Crazy Dog

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #157 on: January 08, 2011, 08:17:58 PM »
Just found this link and some really amazing but heartbreaking shots of our fellow countrymen and women...

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/01/australian_flooding.html


Grrr!!! :'( :'(
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Offline speewa158

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #158 on: January 08, 2011, 08:55:16 PM »
When the water goes down  the work begins to sort out the mess
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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #159 on: January 08, 2011, 10:12:48 PM »
The hardest decision is will this happen again and when. Some towns it has happened twice in 2 years so do they build a levee. Some places its once in a 100 year or so occurance. Vey hard decisions. The main thing is having the evacuation plans ready, accomodation and food so if and when it does happen again people are ready.

I sympathis with the flood victims as water does so much damage.
 
Its like with cyclones here in cairns we have evacuation centres dont know where but they are here.

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Offline Tezza1974

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #160 on: January 09, 2011, 07:38:31 AM »
I truly hope everyone affected by the floods keeps a sense of humour and holds onto optimism throughout these harsh times
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Offline Symon

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #161 on: January 09, 2011, 10:09:50 AM »
It isn't permitted in Queensland. New dwellings must be built 300mm above the 1 in 100 year flood height if known or 300mm above the highest recorded flood level.

I think it depends on your local council.  Emerald and Mackay are two exceptions that I know of where many houses have floor levels below the 1 in 100 year level.  My house is in the purple zone for Mackay (so the first to go under) and I am surrounded by low set houses.
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Offline Crimso

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #162 on: January 09, 2011, 10:45:37 AM »
It isn't permitted in Queensland. New dwellings must be built 300mm above the 1 in 100 year flood height if known or 300mm above the highest recorded flood level.



This would be the minimum height to build. There is no rule that says you can not build on posts, piers, stumps etc. In my opinion this is the best way to build for termite reasons. There may be height restrictions, such as the highest part of the house must be under a certain height from a defined datum point.

The reason most people choose to build slab on ground brick & tile is financial, cheaper to build and easier / less expensive maintenance.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #163 on: January 09, 2011, 11:04:16 AM »
Just found this link and some really amazing but heartbreaking shots of our fellow countrymen and women...

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/01/australian_flooding.html


Excellent photos there - good to see that this has made the international news - it's certainly worthy of such reporting.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #164 on: January 09, 2011, 11:07:28 AM »
Sharky, thanks so much for all those images. They were a great picture of what is going on up there. What were you flying around in, as it looks like you got a terrific view!?


Hi Duchess
Photos were taken from the front seat of one of our Sea Kings like this one on the ground at St George yesterday.


The view north of Dirranbandi.


Cheers
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #165 on: January 09, 2011, 11:44:51 AM »
I was reflecting on the title of this thread. Flash Floods are certainly occuring on the coast, particularly around Gympie and the Mary River but the scene is somewhat different out here on the Balonne River.
The water here is flowing quickly in places but it's a relatively slow moving beast that has this inevitable immensity to it. There has not been a lot of rain out here so it doesn't really look that flooded in most parts but in the lower lying areas the water spreads out and you get an appreciation for the damage that such a large volume of water can do to roads, fences, farm infrastructure not to mention buildings.
We were in Dirranbandi briefly yesterday and the locals we spoke to were quite confident and not overly worried. There pretty easy going types out here!
Here are a couple of shots of the Dirranbandi area.


This is typical of the broad coverage of the flood water around the Balonne River.


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Offline Barry G

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #166 on: January 09, 2011, 11:55:52 AM »
This would be the minimum height to build. There is no rule that says you can not build on posts, piers, stumps etc. In my opinion this is the best way to build for termite reasons. There may be height restrictions, such as the highest part of the house must be under a certain height from a defined datum point.

The reason most people choose to build slab on ground brick & tile is financial, cheaper to build and easier / less expensive maintenance.
Not wishing to distract from the focus of this thread in terms of the people affected.  
However I see a real problem similar to that in relation to re-building in Vic. after the recent bushfires, i.e. not addressing the need to learn lessons and regulate to avoid repeats in the future.

Individuals can't afford to continually re-build,
Insurance companies can't afford to continually pay out - and the premiums for all go up to compensate for the costs anyway,
Governments (in reality us taxpayers) have no choice but to fund clean up and reconstruction.  This either redirects $ from other projects or leads to increased deficits / higher taxes.
Personal donations are a positive human response, but are infinitesimal in terms of the on-going cost of  such disasters.

While not necessarily the solution in hilly areas there is a simple answer on our great flood plains, which includes virtually all of inland NSW and Qld.  All houses should be elevated a minimum of 2.5m (preferrably 3.0m) above ground level.

This would:
  • Effectively 'flood proof' the floor levels of most houses
  • Provide for natural cooling/ventilation
  • Provide a covered (but 'uninsured') area for storage and recreational use, garaging vehicles, etc.
  • Significantly reduce household losses, reconstruction costs and costs to governments and insurance companies

It would even make sense for government to provide a fixed subsidy for the costs of the necessary 'stilts' for new dwellings (up to a maximum floor area, say 18 - 20 squares) and / or for this to be subsidised by a charge on the insurance industry, as both will save through such changes.

Commercial premises are a different issue, in those cases both landlords and business owners should hold the relevant insurance, which is tax deductible.  If they want to take on the risk and 'self insure', then that is there commercial choice.

With recurring disasters of this scale the only viable response is to insist on finally learning the obvious lessons of our environment and doing it better in future.
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Offline speewa158

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #167 on: January 09, 2011, 05:33:50 PM »
Thats a great idea go float that past the people who live in low laying areas  of Rocky or where ever , It will sink faster than a dog trying to catch bricks in the river  :cheers:
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Offline Barry G

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #168 on: January 09, 2011, 08:41:08 PM »
Speewa,

I was specifically referring to the flat areas, which are predominantly inland.  There is a whole different set of problems in hilly country where flooding rivers rise above the height of the power lines, as has occurred in some of the coastal locations.

The point is that no-one (individuals / insurance industry / government / the public who ultimately meet much of the the cost, one way or another) can't afford to have houses repeatedly - 2x '100 year' floods in 10 MONTHS - going faster than your 'brick catching dog'.

After Cyclone Tracey the rules were changed to ensure that re-built houses were cyclone proofed.  Anyone who remembers the movie Newsfront will remember the 'Movietone' file footage of the flooding on the Hawkesbury River in the early 1950s. 

Just as things like roofing screws (replacing nails) contributed to making houses 'cyclone proof', a floor level at least 2.5m above ground level would make most new houses on flood plains effectively flood proof, for comparatively minimal extra construction cost, while at the same time making them much more liveable for a hot climate.
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Offline Kit_e_kat9

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #169 on: January 09, 2011, 08:46:53 PM »
I don't care where you build ... when 19 metres of water goes past, not many homes or business's are safe.  

Let's not argue ... just donate to the Flood Relief Appeal by calling 1800 219 028 or clicking here.  

Now Gympie (stay safe Jackie and Family) and Maryborough are going under.  Since this is heading south, BrisVegas could be next.  Bundaberg is having issues (stay safe over 500 Family Members of mine) and numerous other towns and properties are still under water and cut off from civilisation.  Infrastructure has completely disappeared and the Pollies have no idea where to start.  It's like a third world country ...

It's going to take a very long time to recover, and I really feel for all those involved.  I'm 274m above sea level, so I can't see it affecting my home unless in conjunction with a Tsanami, but it's going to make my trip to work interesting over the next few days.  

Dig Deep please ... they need our help!

Kit_e   :cheers:

« Last Edit: January 09, 2011, 08:55:08 PM by Kit_e_kat9 »
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Offline darren

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #170 on: January 09, 2011, 08:50:56 PM »
I think Bob Katter is behind this

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/features/inland-lake-aired-again/story-e6freoyo-1111113021301
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Offline Barry G

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #171 on: January 09, 2011, 09:00:38 PM »
Kit_e,
Where are the 19 metre levels above ground level?  From what I have seen on the box, and judging by the water height relative to dwellings, not on the inland plains.  From the pics on the box, most houses in towns seem less than 2.0 metres under.

Agree regarding 19 metre rises in the urban valleys, as in many coastal towns.

Not intending to start an argument, and hope that my posts have come across that way.  Just think we need to find a preventative solution for the future where possible, rather than the short sited 'just re-build everything brick-by-brick' approach used in Victoria after the 2009 bushfires.

BTW, for most it is not height above sea level which is the determining factor, but rather height above the nearest watercourse.  'Sea level' is only really a factor for those within proximity of the coast, although that may be you.
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Offline Barry G

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #172 on: January 09, 2011, 09:08:18 PM »
I think Bob Katter is behind this

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/features/inland-lake-aired-again/story-e6freoyo-1111113021301

Darren,
I know that these schemes are put forward by people who are genuine, however the current circumstances demonstrate the 'unintended consequences' which, aside from the many other issues raised over this proposal, make it impractical.

Just imagine diverting the Fitzroy and other rivers inland at the moment - wouldn't think it would be particularly welcome west of the Great Divide just now.
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Offline Kit_e_kat9

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #173 on: January 09, 2011, 10:03:55 PM »


Update:

The Bruce Highway is now cut in both directions at Caboolture.  So don't go that way just now ...

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Offline speewa158

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Re: Flash Floods
« Reply #174 on: January 10, 2011, 06:34:50 AM »
The box tells a story that Gympie CBD has been striped of everything as they expect 2m of water to flow through trown very soon .Just how do you rebuild a comunity to sort out the huge floods . Tops of hills create htere own problems . Hang tuff oiut there
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