Australian Made from now on, who's in?

[tombie]

The calculations the Grazier's  make, also varies on a few other factors.  Due to carrying capacity of a Grazier's property being fairly restricted, Grazier's also take advantage of any change or improvement in farming technique which will improve the carrying capacity.  This has resulted in an increasing carrying capacity for most Graziers. 

The UN is largely stuck on the Malthusian Law of Population, regardless of how many times the 'Law' has been shown to be false.  Relying on a theory from 1798 and not changing make sense.  How many times has the prediction been made that we will 'run out' of food?

At present just what our maximum population is, is really unknown.

Thanks. Great response. Perhaps I was a bit simplistic

Even Principles of Population which was used to discredit Malthus theory agrees that “positive checks” will still be more than likely if population growth is not curbed.


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[Paddler Ed]

Coopers Green is my beer currency (people can't get it wrong) but my personal choice is New England Pale Ale:
http://www.newenglandbrewing.com.au/beers/buy-online/

We do get spoilt here though with Great Hops (https://www.greathops.com.au/) and Welders Dog (https://www.theweldersdog.com.au/) all in the area as well; we also get some from Deepwater (a bit harder to get hold of at times, but a good big beer: https://www.deepwaterbrewing.com.au/)

Most of the local pubs have at least one of those as an option, so there's no excuse for not buying it locally - they've even got Dan's to stock it (and a good mark up over what the brewery door sells it for!)

[alnjan]

Thanks. Great response. Perhaps I was a bit simplistic

Even Principles of Population which was used to discredit Malthus theory agrees that “positive checks” will still be more than likely if population growth is not curbed.


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The Observational Data keeps showing as a Country develops the population growth rate actually declines.   Look at the population growth rate between Western Worlds and Third world Countries.    Western World either has to have incentive programs for families to increase or simply increase their immigration levels to increase their population.   

[rockrat]

What? not XXXX Gold? 

On the topic of beer, who has tried XXXX Dry?


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[Paddler Ed]

The Observational Data keeps showing as a Country develops the population growth rate actually declines.   Look at the population growth rate between Western Worlds and Third world Countries.    Western World either has to have incentive programs for families to increase or simply increase their immigration levels to increase their population.   

A couple of things behind this:
1) Children are an economic inferior good - as incomes increase, we consume less of them (ie don't have as many). In part this is because life expectancy has improved, so we don't need as many in the case of infant mortality, but also because people just don't have time for it.
2) As education increases, the number of children decrease as well - this is why AusAid projects etc that were being done in developing countries are so important in increasing female education rates in particular; it moves their expected role beyond being a baby factory and cooking.
3) Improved access to healthcare - both health education (2) and lifespan (1) are impacted by this; (2) is that contraception is more readily available and the woman can feel more empowered to tell the bloke to wrap it up, and in the case of (1) it's just better life outcomes in terms of infant mortality.

The problem is that the majority of the western world's premise of good economic activity is based on continual economic growth, and the easiest way to achieve that is to increase the number of heads/mouths to feed...

[gronk]

Yeah, that acquired taste is due to them actually using Hops and Malted grain... weird idea eh? 

I don't know about malted grain, but I presumed you needed hops to make beer ?? 
Ha ha...when all this is over, I wonder if the hand sanitiser some places are now making will taste better than their normal product ??

[alnjan]

A couple of things behind this:
1) Children are an economic inferior good - as incomes increase, we consume less of them (ie don't have as many). In part this is because life expectancy has improved, so we don't need as many in the case of infant mortality, but also because people just don't have time for it.
2) As education increases, the number of children decrease as well - this is why AusAid projects etc that were being done in developing countries are so important in increasing female education rates in particular; it moves their expected role beyond being a baby factory and cooking.
3) Improved access to healthcare - both health education (2) and lifespan (1) are impacted by this; (2) is that contraception is more readily available and the woman can feel more empowered to tell the bloke to wrap it up, and in the case of (1) it's just better life outcomes in terms of infant mortality.

The problem is that the majority of the western world's premise of good economic activity is based on continual economic growth, and the easiest way to achieve that is to increase the number of heads/mouths to feed...

I agree.   Along with that is the improved farming practises in the developed Countries are producing more food then before and continue to produce more than the Country needs. 

The future problem would be if those developing or third World Countries finally become developed Countries and follow the same Population trend would the Population stagnate or decrease instead of the current continual increase? 
 

[Fizzie]

The future problem would be if those developing or third World Countries finally become developed Countries and follow the same Population trend would the Population stagnate or decrease instead of the current continual increase? 
 

Eventually level off then start to slowly decrease.

Was reading a book dealing with all this sort of thing just a few week ago - Factfulness https://www.gapminder.org/factfulness-book/

Set's out to prove that what we know about how bad the world is, is basically wrong

If you're at all interested in this sort of area, I'd encourage you to get hold of it & have a read - truly amazing stuff!

[Paddler Ed]

I agree.   Along with that is the improved farming practises in the developed Countries are producing more food then before and continue to produce more than the Country needs. 

The future problem would be if those developing or third World Countries finally become developed Countries and follow the same Population trend would the Population stagnate or decrease instead of the current continual increase? 
 

Why does a stabilising or decreasing population pose a problem?

In other thoughts, and back on topic - I did end up needing to clean myself up after changing the brake fluid on both Land Cruisers, so whilst doing that I did a quick look around the bathroom for Aussie made products:

-Shampoo and wash: Nature's Organics:https://naturesorganics.com.au/about/history/ is Aussie owned and made. Also Sukin is Aussie made (and I think owned): https://sukinnaturals.com.au/pages/our-story
-Cleaner: Earth Choice (part of Nature's Organics) is often one of the cheapest options https://naturesorganics.com.au/our-products/

[tombie]

Now everybody look after your current phone/tablet/computer you’re using here.

You’ll never buy an Aussie made one


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[StormCamper]

After all the research I have done in my spare time over the past few years, I can see 4 reasons to buy chinese campers.

1- The aussie makers genuinely have no clue how long they will last, I have asked all the big guns over the past few years about how long their suspesnion, canvas, all the stuff will last. And they don't wanna know you! What answers I get are indirect rubbish. So why on earth would I buy a 40-60K CT when it comes with absolutely no stadards? Sadly it seems many owners don't really know. Simply put I have no idea how many KM's of corrugations it will handle until something needs servicing fixing etc. I expect to get 30+years out of it for these prices. There are imports doing the cape, I have always suspected some of the imports are half the cost, 90% the quality.

2- Aussie made CT's are so inflated its ridiculous (and yes some imports too!). For 50K you bloody well expect 250L of water storage, 60L of fuel, 600AH+ of lithium, 800W on roof, built in air cond,a dedicated place to store the genny, porta potty, large quantity of portable solar panels, powerful victron gear, proper AC GPO's. Please don't waste my time telling me thats overkill. That is exactly what I would throw in a DOT or Trackabout, so I dont camp like a bumb. But hey... at least the kids & women know they get treated well with me, It seems alot of men wonder why their partner don't wanna go away . Feel sorry for Drifta owners...ouch! LOL 7mins to packup an awning.
Some other maker spent 40mins blabbering on about a bracket, em I paying 60K for a CT, or drones & marketing?

3- One thing I know is there is always built in regret, or some reason to sell it. Better to be stuck with a 20K CT vs. a 40K. And no hoarding your possessions is not the answer!

4-Less & less places you can go now that warrent a good CT, its all being locked up, overpopulated. tourists stealing our backyard too.

Really the only reason I wouldn't touch chinese imports is they are such a joke design wise for what I wan't to do (aswell many aussie).  Will the chinese ever make a better copy of the Conqueror, DOT, trackabout, ultimate? I wish coz those brands all have major flaws that are dog balls obvious, but i suspect by the time they do the price diff might not be that big.
Give anouther decade or two and all aussies are done, retirement is being weeded out and future gens are in big trouble as the world is unstable & on the brink. It's survival of the fittest. Just remember the word Hypocrisy until the day you die, like aussie makers driving Toyotas.

[Fizzie]

Just spotted this site: https://www.australianmade.com.au/products/

On first glance, some great gear in there

[Hairs]

Just spotted this site: https://www.australianmade.com.au/products/

On first glance, some great gear in there

Cheers,
I'll check it out.

[Bigfish]

After all the research I have done in my spare time over the past few years, I can see 4 reasons to buy chinese campers.

1- The aussie makers genuinely have no clue how long they will last, I have asked all the big guns over the past few years about how long their suspesnion, canvas, all the stuff will last. And they don't wanna know you! What answers I get are indirect rubbish. So why on earth would I buy a 40-60K CT when it comes with absolutely no stadards? Sadly it seems many owners don't really know. Simply put I have no idea how many KM's of corrugations it will handle until something needs servicing fixing etc. I expect to get 30+years out of it for these prices. There are imports doing the cape, I have always suspected some of the imports are half the cost, 90% the quality.

2- Aussie made CT's are so inflated its ridiculous (and yes some imports too!). For 50K you bloody well expect 250L of water storage, 60L of fuel, 600AH+ of lithium, 800W on roof, built in air cond,a dedicated place to store the genny, porta potty, large quantity of portable solar panels, powerful victron gear, proper AC GPO's. Please don't waste my time telling me thats overkill. That is exactly what I would throw in a DOT or Trackabout, so I dont camp like a bumb. But hey... at least the kids & women know they get treated well with me, It seems alot of men wonder why their partner don't wanna go away . Feel sorry for Drifta owners...ouch! LOL 7mins to packup an awning.
Some other maker spent 40mins blabbering on about a bracket, em I paying 60K for a CT, or drones & marketing?

3- One thing I know is there is always built in regret, or some reason to sell it. Better to be stuck with a 20K CT vs. a 40K. And no hoarding your possessions is not the answer!

4-Less & less places you can go now that warrent a good CT, its all being locked up, overpopulated. tourists stealing our backyard too.

Really the only reason I wouldn't touch chinese imports is they are such a joke design wise for what I wan't to do (aswell many aussie).  Will the chinese ever make a better copy of the Conqueror, DOT, trackabout, ultimate? I wish coz those brands all have major flaws that are dog balls obvious, but i suspect by the time they do the price diff might not be that big.
Give anouther decade or two and all aussies are done, retirement is being weeded out and future gens are in big trouble as the world is unstable & on the brink. It's survival of the fittest. Just remember the word Hypocrisy until the day you die, like aussie makers driving Toyotas.

So your assuming husbands partners do not want to go away because they dont get treated right??  I dont think many men wonder at all...I reckon the vast majority know why!!
I,m happy to waste my time and say you dont need 600amps of lithium, 800watts of solar etc.."so I dont camp like a bumb (bum!)..Seriously...How many on here carry that sort of power/water and how many would even want it or need it?

Judging by the tone of your post I reckon you need to chill out a bit..

[Spada]

I,m happy to waste my time and say you dont need 600amps of lithium, 800watts of solar etc.."so I dont camp like a bumb (bum!)..Seriously...How many on here carry that sort of power/water and how many would even want it or need it?

guilty as charged 

[MB TD42]

That is dead right.  How many Australians would be willing to take pay cuts  so as the average wage is $45,000 a year?  Our labour costs are just so expensive.  Plus all our best food is sent overseas. The seafood available to us is way too expensive....fishing licences cost an arm and leg...maybe if govt cut the licence fees to 10% and said that all fish to be sold in Aus!..Sounds good but govt takes a huge tax hit. Most of our rice and wheat is sent overseas as well. Live meat trade should be halted asap. Apart from the shocking treatment of our cattle we are also building up asians cattle industry.  No manufacturing..once again our labour costs are too high. Its great living at a decent standard compared to many countries but we pay the price.  Globalisation , hopefully, will take a hit and if ever we get a govt that is really interested in the country and its people then one day we will look after our farmers, workers, disadvantaged and each other a whole lot better. Capitalism isnt working and maybe, just maybe, after this virus runs its course we might see a better way of doing things and prioritise what is of most importance to us as a country..

Our average national income is around 45k per annum... Not a pay cut...you would need to drop to 18k per annum to compete

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[Benduro]

... or we could just be prepared to pay a little more for a quality product that in the long term will probably be more cost effective, and in the short term at least fit for purpose.
I see a lot of people locally making conscious choices about what they are buying and who they are buying from.
Company ownership and ethics is definitely on peoples radar and consciences are being awakened.
Personally I'd rather buy a second hand Aust' made (or at least original design) camper, for example, than a cheap Chinese knockoff trying to lure and deceive customers with an Australian name. I'd also rather support the locally owned hardware shop for the same product, maybe slightly more costly but with far better service and after sales support. The local IGA, butcher, baker, grocer are easy to support and not much more expensive. Where that's not possible, think about ethical companies like Patagonia and Zorali for clothing and equipment. Plenty of local wines on offer as well as the trusty Coopers range of beers.
Not hard at all!

[KathyL]

For 50K you bloody well expect 250L of water storage, 60L of fuel, 600AH+ of lithium, 800W on roof, built in air cond,a dedicated place to store the genny, porta potty, large quantity of portable solar panels, powerful victron gear, proper AC GPO's.

And what vehicle are you going to legally tow that fully laden weight - plus all the people and stuff in/on your tow vehicle - with?

[Pete79]

Once again the big guys are playing catch-up.
Just another reason to support your local smaller grocer.

https://au.news.yahoo.com/woolworths-coles-shoppers-beg-australian-owned-shelf-labels-085220259.html

[Pete79]

Pretty good article that sets out how we got to where we are now with our local manufacturing.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-08/australian-manufacturing-rise-and-fall-lessons-post-coronavirus/12295518

And this quote from the story pretty nails it;

Professor Bell says the coronavirus pandemic has cast a light on the disruption of certain supply lines, and the trade tensions we're having with China at the moment.

"That has elicited a debate locally in Australia: do we need to be strategic in terms of thinking about which industrial sectors matter, and how do we achieve some sort of presence in sectors we deem important?" he says.

"I'm pretty sceptical that debate will go very far, given our history."

[Fizzie]

Unfortunately, he's probably right

[Traveller]

Mrs and I were talking about this last night. We would love to support locally made, and do as much as possible, but the dollar does talk pretty loudly. We are old enough to remember an Australia that was full of it's own manufacturing, and you seldom thought about imported goods because they were either American/European and very expensive, or Japanese stuff that was 'delicate'. China was locked behind the bamboo curtain then. The standard of product produced in Oz ran the full range from excellent (very dear) to shoddy (not cheap to buy). Clothing is a good example of how things have changed. I can remember a pair of jeans easily costing near a week wages and now I can pick up a pair for $15 on a good day. T-shirts were 3 or 4 times the price they are now and it is easy to see how our companies went toes up.

Even today, with all the talk that is going on, if you go to your local clothes shop and had the opportunity to buy a locally made item for several times the cost of the imports, who would consistently buy them? Not that many would be my guess.

We tow an Aussie built camper that is about 16 years old, and it has done a lot of work, been fantastic, but we are thinking of updating. We are looking at Aussie made again, but the price tags are huge, and of course none are perfect. What do we do? Last year the roads in outback Queensland were the best I have ever seen and I am sure any vehicle could have negotiated most of them, but I still have this niggling doubt about the staying power of imports, both in quality and service.

Time will tell if people will pay the extra.

[Bird]

Time will tell if people will pay the extra.

I think you know the answer...

[Spada]

Times have changed

[Fizzie]

& even back in 1975, people couldn't work out that the big thick painted line on the road was where you were supposed to stop ...