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Author Topic: Interesting read on electric cars  (Read 225182 times)

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Offline Bigfish

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Interesting read on electric cars
« on: May 02, 2019, 06:13:50 AM »
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Offline alnjan

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2019, 09:57:37 AM »
and now Bill is backing away from his earlier 'thought bubble' of 50% new cars being electric. 
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2019, 10:20:50 AM »
Quote from: alnjan on May 02, 2019, 09:57:37 AM
and now Bill is backing away from his earlier 'thought bubble' of 50% new cars being electric.

Will be interesting to see how things pan out.  Even libs estimated between 25 and 50% electric in the same timeframe as labor.  Suppose we will have to wait 20+ years to see what really happens...Many manufacturers are already talking all electric within a the next decade.


Doesnt really matter what we want...its what we get from the manufacturers...
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2019, 11:11:03 AM »
Quote from: Bigfish on May 02, 2019, 10:20:50 AM
Doesnt really matter what we want...its what we get from the manufacturers...
The whole thing in a nutshell right there!

The Australian car market is minuscule.
There’s about 12 million more people just in California then there is in the whole of Australia.
And I think we all know the way they want to see the future of vehicles go over there....

We have no say in the direction of this market...

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Offline Spada

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2019, 11:42:20 AM »
Glad I chose this year to do a trip to the cape...................not sure a Prius would tow the camper, let alone find a charge point on the OTT?
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2019, 12:11:11 PM »
Quote from: Spada on May 02, 2019, 11:42:20 AM
Glad I chose this year to do a trip to the cape...................not sure a Prius would tow the camper, let alone find a charge point on the OTT?


Sell the camper/trailer and buy a 50kva generator to mount on an off road trailer ......
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Offline tryagain

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2019, 12:13:48 PM »
Quote from: Pete79 on May 02, 2019, 11:11:03 AM
The whole thing in a nutshell right there!

The Australian car market is minuscule.
There’s about 12 million more people just in California then there is in the whole of Australia.
And I think we all know the way they want to see the future of vehicles go over there....

We have no say in the direction of this market...



I would agree, that's why I think we as a country should just roll with it as opposed to mandating it. With Labours target, the issue is, if it's aspirational, then it's pretty much meaningless words. If it's legislated, then it requires either a subsidy to make them financially more attractive (Taxpayer $$$ wasted) or a new form of tax on non-EVs, which would be on top of the free ride EV's already get in regards to fuel excise, which raises about $12Billion year.

Any artificial inflation of EV's is just going to cost money and have little to no impact on their availability or climate change from when you consider it from a global perspective. Early adopters with technology normally pay a premium for not much more than bragging rights in return.
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Offline JusyApples

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2019, 06:00:00 PM »
Car advice have done a stack of work on this of late.
Bill claimed Toyota were going full electric with their vehicles. Toyota confirmed this was not the case. They are still spending their money refining petrol and Diesel engines.

How will all this be powered without coal or nuclear power?

It’s come out that Bill wants the states to legislate that people are required to install a charger when remodelling or building a new home.

Coupled with his emission targets which he won’t cost it sounds like an expensive time for Australia.

He’s also shown he has no idea the time and cost of electric vehicles. What did he say? You could charge a battery in 8mins.

What happens for those who live in apartments, have off street parking, who want to go to remote places?

The whole thing is just made up on the spot. If he was so worried about emissions, why’s he driving around in a big red bus.



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Offline KeithB

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2019, 06:28:49 PM »
I think as EVS become popular, servos will start replacing gas bowsers with EV chargers. There are now super capacitor chargers on the way that can charge a car in 5-10 minutes. The servos will love that because customers might go into the store and buy something.

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Offline alnjan

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2019, 06:34:46 PM »
Quote from: KeithB on May 02, 2019, 06:28:49 PM
I think as EVS become popular, servos will start replacing gas bowsers with EV chargers. There are now super capacitor chargers on the way that can charge a car in 5-10 minutes. The servos will love that because customers might go into the store and buy something.

Keith
Recently retired publisher of national service station trade magazine.

If I understand what I have read while there are fast chargers, the 5-10 minute chargers, but the electric vehicle may not have the capability to be fast charged and will only take the 'slow' charge.  Basically Tesla do a fast charge vehicle that matches their fast charger but other vehicle makers are slow charge vehicles designed to either plug in at home and charge over night or during the day at work. 

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Offline corndog

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2019, 07:25:12 PM »
People get agro waiting 5 mins to fill up the car now. You think they will be happy waiting another 5,10 mins or more. And put another 200,000 cars on the road in the city, in the next 10 years and we will have another rage. Charging rage....
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Offline PWE

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2019, 08:06:55 PM »
I am one off those bragging rights people because I have order and paid for my Model 3
I will keep my Landcruiser 76 because the Government will not be able to pay for all the Non-Federal highways maintenance since everyone will be driving electrical cars and no one will be paying the fuel levy for the road maintenance. Back roads will be dirt roads so you will need a 4wd to travel outside the cities or on the secondary road between cities.

OK, not really true but who will pay for the road maintenance is if no-one is buying fuel?

It amaze me when I visits the family is South Africa every 4 years how the potholes are getting bigger and the secondary roads turn to ‘tracks’. The highways are fine.
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Offline Pottsy

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2019, 08:09:27 PM »
Has anyone got any ideas on how much it costs to recharge your car, is it meant to be cheaper than petrol/ diesel?
As we move to be less reliant on coal and fossil fuels where is the base load power going to come from?
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Offline sharkcaver

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2019, 08:34:27 PM »
Quote from: Pottsy on May 02, 2019, 08:09:27 PM
Has anyone got any ideas on how much it costs to recharge your car, is it meant to be cheaper than petrol/ diesel?

Petrol/diesel has far more energy stored within a kilogram of the stuff than a kilogram of coal. So you have to consume a whole lot more coal to produce the same energy output. Petrol/diesel around 44Mj/Kg, coal around 20Mj/kg. You almost need twice as much coal for the same energy output.

The question I would like to see answered:

How much greenhouse gas is produced burning a Kg of petrol/diesel compared to burning the equivalent energy output of coal (near 2Kg)?

Renewables may become an answer in the future, but we need to see a large cost reduction for it to compete with coal.

That's why dino fuels still rule atm.

With advances in tech and cost reductions, I'm sure elec vehicles will become cost competitive at some stage in the future and cleaner than they are now.

But that's not going to help a vast, remote arid continent like we live in unless we want to be city bound.
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Offline PWE

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2019, 08:35:24 PM »
Labour want all schools to have solar with batteries, so that the school can act like a mini-power station during the non-school days and weekend. Not sure how it will work in regards to feed in tariff
I have solar and batteries. Battery (Powerwall 2) was installed August 2017. I have not paid a power bill since then.
I am about to add more solar and another Powerwall 2 to my setup. I will then be 100% self sufficient

But I agree, base load power is required until an alternative cheap renewable power source is developed. I am fortunate to be able to afford my setup.
It looks like Domestic solar and batteries with gas turbines will be Labour’s short to medium term solution.
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Offline Bigpickle

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2019, 09:04:16 PM »
I find it astounding that on a Forum where motor vehicles are at least 50% of the topics, there are so many uninformed people posting uninformed opinions.
The majority of opinions are direct quotes from either Morrison or Shorten with a smattering of " I heard that...."
If you are going to post at least try and post something relevant or informed rather than recycled political claptrap.
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Offline alnjan

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2019, 09:18:46 PM »
Mapped: Electric Car Charging Stations & Locations in Australia

https://www.drivezero.com.au/electric-car-charging-stations/
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Offline corndog

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2019, 09:27:10 PM »
Can someone tell me how many more solar farms, wind farms, battery banks etc. are going to be needed to charge all these electric cars that are driving around our roads in say 30 years time, as well as supply power to the 10,15,20 mllion or more people that will be living and working in this country,
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Offline PWE

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2019, 09:35:04 PM »
Quote from: Bigpickle on May 02, 2019, 09:04:16 PM
I find it astounding that on a Forum where motor vehicles are at least 50% of the topics, there are so many uninformed people posting uninformed opinions.
The majority of opinions are direct quotes from either Morrison or Shorten with a smattering of " I heard that...."
If you are going to post at least try and post something relevant or informed rather than recycled political claptrap.

That will be difficult for me since I am not creative and do not create new stuff, I just recycle and re-post, so will try and port (RE-post) less.
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Offline PWE

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2019, 09:45:02 PM »
Quote from: corndog on May 02, 2019, 09:27:10 PM
Can someone tell me how many more solar farms, wind farms, battery banks etc. are going to be needed to charge all these electric cars that are driving around our roads in say 30 years time, as well as supply power to the 10,15,20 mllion or more people that will be living and working in this country,

It does not answer your question but see page 8, visual presentation of key stats.
Page 23, table 3.2 provide hard stats that states what everyone knows, renewables is a long way of to replace fossil fuel.
Solar farms (2016/17) produced 0.3% of the total output.

https://www.energy.gov.au/sites/default/files/australian_energy_update_2018.pdf
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 09:52:01 PM by PWE »
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Offline KeithB

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2019, 09:51:46 PM »
    On EV's a lot of people ask rhetorical questions like:

    "How are we going to charge it?"
    "How long will I have to queue up to get a charge?"
    "How will the grid cope with all of these charging stations?"
    "What if I want to travel into regional areas?"
    "Where is the energy going to come from to charge all of these EVs?"
    "When will EVs be affordable?"
    "If nobody is paying petrol tax, how are we going to pay for the roads?"

    These questions are raised by the questioner more as an exclamation more than a question. It's as though, because they don't know the answer, there is no answer.
    Just look at mobile phones from 20 years ago and compare that to now. Every smart phone is a sophisticated computer. And that happened in less than a dozen or so years.

    There is world wide rush by governments and manufacturers to EVs. Scientists everywhere are working on new battery technology. One program at the University of Sydney is aiming at getting batteries down to $100 per KWH within two or three years and is running small scale trials right now

    Here's my fearless forecast for 2005 2025 (Typo fixed. Thanks Tryagain.:

    EVs will be at least as cheap as petrol cars.

    People will still have big diesel 4x4s for recreational and possibly farm use.

    Range will be around 600km and they will suit super fast capacitor chargers.

    Every service station will have multiple fast charging stations.

    Something else will get taxed to make up the lost fuel excise, possibly a lift in the GST.

    I'm looking forward to the arrival of EVs and one will probably be our next second car.

    Keith

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    « Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 10:59:29 PM by KeithB »
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    Offline PWE

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    Re: Interesting read on electric cars
    « Reply #21 on: May 02, 2019, 09:56:28 PM »
    Keith

    Your 2005 forecast was not out by much.
    Any change of picking the lotto numbers for me.
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    Offline gronk

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    Re: Interesting read on electric cars
    « Reply #22 on: May 02, 2019, 09:56:55 PM »
    Quote from: corndog on May 02, 2019, 09:27:10 PM
    Can someone tell me how many more solar farms, wind farms, battery banks etc. are going to be needed to charge all these electric cars that are driving around our roads in say 30 years time, as well as supply power to the 10,15,20 mllion or more people that will be living and working in this country,

    I see electric cars as a short term feel good solution to a problem that isn't yet a problem. The problem is the people who think we can dump coal powered stations before we can reliably and CHEAPLY supply that power with something else.

    When the world HAS to go away from fossil fueled cars, it may be another fossil fuel....maybe nuclear of some description......and if I had the answer to that, I would be richer than Elon Musk..
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    Offline gronk

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    Re: Interesting read on electric cars
    « Reply #23 on: May 02, 2019, 10:00:59 PM »
      Quote from: KeithB on May 02, 2019, 09:51:46 PM


      I'm looking forward to the arrival of EVs and one will probably be our next second car.

      Keith

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      They're here now.....rush out now and buy one. They're only approx twice the price of the similar petrol ones !!
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      Offline tryagain

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      Re: Interesting read on electric cars
      « Reply #24 on: May 02, 2019, 10:29:41 PM »
      I think most people make a much bigger deal out of charging than it really is, with a 500ish km range, you will just charge at home 95% of the time, when you are doing a greater than that trip is when you will use a super charger.
      I have seen some videos on YouTube of people trecking across the US in there Tesla, the Car guides them to the Supercharger in the town, they hook it up and tell them how long it will take them to get enough charge to get to the next stop, they go off to get a feed and the Car messages them in half an hr  (or less for a part charge) or so to let them know it's good to go.

      Sure we don't have the charging infrastructure in place here yet that they do, but Tesla probably already has more chargers than you realise and that number will only grow.
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