Turbo diesel + auto or manual for towing

[Onion]

Hopefully not stirring up a hornets' nest, but here goes...

We're considering swapping the Captiva for a dual cab ute + canopy. I have a mate that tells me the single turbo diesels, when mated to an auto, because of the lag and amount of torque will chew the auto box up. He says it's not an issue on manuals or dual turbos because there's not the lag effect. He tells me that virtually all the auto's are made by the same company. They're basically sealed units as far as the car makers are concerned. They're warranted only as long as the tranny oil is warranted for. After a few years, there will be plenty of call for new automatic boxes in them.

He says he has had one (VW) and knows several others who have as well (Ranger, Triton, etc) and after a few years (4-5) they all basically sh!t themselves if they've done much towing.

As we want the new thing (whatever it ends up being) for better towing of the TrackAbout, this is a concern. And living in a BrisVegas, I'd prefer an auto (yes, I'm lazy, so shoot me!).

Does anyone on here have any experiences with this? Any auto-transmission mechanics on here? I'll even take anecdotes :-)

Anyone, anyone, Bueller, Bueller?

[Foo]

You can still get the transmissions flushed and refilled. What diesels utes have a twin turbo? You can put coolers on the transmissions as well.

Foo

[MrCruza]

I have a mate that tells me the single turbo diesels, when mated to an auto, because of the lag and amount of torque will chew the auto box up.

Doesn't make sense to me. A single turbo will have possibly more lag than a dual setup but considerably less torque. Its the torque that MAY be an issue depending on models. Having said that, most auto boxes these days are capable of handling far more torque than the factory throws at them.

For example, the cruiser is rated at 600NM but the box is more than capable of handling over 1000NM.. Lots of chipped examples running around pumping those numbers with no issues.

As Foo says you CAN change the oil in them, and that is the secret to long life.

[Onion]

Yeah - he did mention to get the oil changed every X,000 klms.
Said don't bother to ask the dealer to do it as they'll tell you it doesn't need it...

[macca]

Well I've got a 2007 Rodeo auto 3.0 litre diesel and have done quite a few km's in it. I tow a 1.2tonne home built camper and when its not towing that its towing a 1.5 tonne ski boat. Has never missed a beat and I dont go along with the "when towing use a lower gear" mob, i chuck it in drive, cruise control on and off i go. Have changed the trans oil about three times since I've had it.  Yes its a bit of a dog off the lights with the lag and fly by wire throttle but once your used to it, it's not a problem and once it gets going it keeps up with the traffic . Cruise at 100 / 110 while towing. Twice i have had the trans temp light come on but that was not towing but steep low range climbs. My next vehicle will be a Dmax auto if they still use the 4JJ1 engine

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[KingBilly]

Hi Onion. Either your mate is full of it, no disrepect to your mate, or he is old school and hasn't kept up with developments this centuary 

Fir instance, the Isuzu Dmax/MUX box is an Aisin box which is a jointly owned transmission builder with its transmissions installed in a number of different makes of vehicles.  See here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Aisin_transmissions  The Colorado box is a GM transmission, very different.

If a transmission proves itself to be reliable other makes may use the same transmission and that is why your mate may think there is only one transmission maker however there are several.

All single turbos have a lag, dual turbos have a lag.  Fact of life, nothing much you can do about it.  Mazda has just patented, or applied for one, for a diesel engine with twin turbos PLUS an electronic supercharger to try to eliminate turbo lag.  It looks like a really interesting development and should appear in future generations of the BT50.  BTW, Maxda and Isuzu will be sharing their next ute platform and engine in their 2019/2020 model updates.  Will be interesting to see where Mazda's new engine fits into this partnership.

As for the transmission being sealed, no it's not, despite what the manufacturers tell you.  Yes, there is no dipstick to check auto oil levels.  Yes, there is no service schedule in the service book. But yes they can be serviced.  For my Dmax, Isuzu sell an auto filter.  Why sell a replacement filter if the unit is sealed for life?  I had my filter and fluid changed at 60K kms due to towing and many 4WD trips.

Heat is the killer of transmission fluid.  If towing, add an aftermarket cooler and you won't have an issue.

KB

[Onion]

Thanks, KB, appreciated.

[lloydus67]

With the Vw
Auto is 8 speed with no low range
Manual is a 6 speed with low range. 1:1 gear is 4th, both 5th and 6th are true overdrive gears.
Both are twin turbo 132kw 4 cylinder 2.0 litre engines
I can't comment on the V6 as I have not tried it


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[speewa158]

lf you know when to change gears up or down depending on just what the motor is telling you , go manual . lf not go auto , its up to you 
 l have a manual Oiler  5 speed  & l can control it               

[topcat]

Just got back from a 3,800 km trip to Innaminca in a manual Prado towing a Trackabout - box is as sweet as a well oiled nut and a joy to DRIVE - as Speewa said - if you like to change gears - get a manual, otherwise get an auto - they're all good these days 
TC

[KingBilly]

Or get a modern auto and you can still change gears 

KB

[Patr80l]

My 2011 Patrol 3.0 TD was manual and had a lower towing rating than the auto version.   What does that tell you about automatic gearboxes?

[GeoffA]

My 2011 Patrol 3.0 TD was manual and had a lower towing rating than the auto version.   What does that tell you about automatic gearboxes?

Not much really.....

It might be correct for the 3 litre Patrol utes, but it's the other way around for 3 litre Patrol wagons (3200kg for manuals, 2500kg for autos)

Towing capacities are all over the place for GU Patrols (depending on body type/driveline spec), so I'm happy to be corrected.

 

[Brodie Tas]

My dad has a new bt50 auto and has upgraded from a ranger manual he tows his 2.5t boat around a most weekends after going the auto he doesn't known why he didn't make the change sooner, there's no turbo lag at all, I have a 2011 mn triton auto and that did have turbo lag but I put a throttle controller in it and that helps with the lag

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

Just as my Signature says.
I have a 2000 105 Auto Cruiser Wagon.
Put a Nomad valve body into the Gearbox, when I got it at 188k Klms.
Still drives better than a new one.  It's fitted with a cooler too.
Tows the two tonne tandem I've got, without any real problems.
Will run all day, and it drinks fuel in hilly terrain too, just like every other petrol Cruiser.
Never had a problem with the Auto, once I put the new control valve assembly on it.

[lloydus67]

Just as a side note, I have had 2 autos. One was a petrol 80 series land cruiser and the other td5 Land Rover discovery. Both had all fluids and filters changed were serviced every 5000 klms , both autos had expensive rebuilds not long into my ownership.
So if you go the auto, buy new and should have a trouble free automatic or you can only blame yourself if you have issues from poor servicing intervals.



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[rags]

My simple mind gels me that a diesel produces torque and an auto converts torque, so they should be a perfect match.

lf you know when to change gears up or down depending on just what the motor is telling you , go manual . lf not go auto , its up to you 
 l have a manual Oiler  5 speed  & l can control it               

I also know how to change gears and went to the dark side with my first prado (90series) and got an auto, the 2nd one (120s) I went back to a manual  but realised that was a mistake and so now have an auto(150s) and must say it is so much better.

[BTMNDR]

1960's thinking in the 2010's.

[kylarama]

I'm yet to come across a 'sealed for life' transmission.  A modern transmission shouldn't need topping up unless there's a leak. Hence the dipstick deletion.
They all still have drain and refill plugs, removable pan, replaceable filter and a manufacturer speced refill procedure.

Like engine oil, ATF has a lifespan and needs replacing eventually.

'sealed for life' is just salesmen speak "I don't know why it doesn't have a dipstick"....

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[BTMNDR]

Toyota claim the 200 Series transmission is filled with lifetime fluid.  However in the "extreme driving conditions" section of the manual it recommends a service interval of 80,000 km.

Wholesale Automatics in Bayswater, the provider of my torque converter lockup kit, recommend a service interval of 40,000 km, regardless of what the manufacturer says.

[Bird]

Wholesale Automatics in Bayswater, the provider of my torque converter lockup kit, recommend a service interval of 40,000 km, regardless of what the manufacturer says.

Rodney knows his Shit, but is also a business man.. If nobody turned up to service their boxes, he'd close down.

then again oils cheap.. gearboxes aren't.

[BTMNDR]

Rodney knows his Shit, but is also a business man.. If nobody turned up to service their boxes, he'd close down.

then again oils cheap.. gearboxes aren't.

You're not suggesting an ulterior motive, are you? Perish the thought. 

[Onion]

Thanks all for the comments. Just one point - I didn't mean the boxes are actually sealed, just that manufacturers treat them as if they are. It's an outsourced component that they don't (really) want to know about. I realise that of course, you can change the tranny fluid :-)

[scblack]

With the Vw
Auto is 8 speed with no low range
Manual is a 6 speed with low range. 1:1 gear is 4th, both 5th and 6th are true overdrive gears.
Both are twin turbo 132kw 4 cylinder 2.0 litre engines
I can't comment on the V6 as I have not tried it


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VW Amarok 8spd auto is rated to 700nm.

[KingBilly]

Thanks all for the comments. Just one point - I didn't mean the boxes are actually sealed, just that manufacturers treat them as if they are. It's an outsourced component that they don't (really) want to know about. I realise that of course, you can change the tranny fluid :-)

Yep, they are "sealed" mainly because most makes offer capped priced servicing.  An "average" vehicle will make it through the warranty period without needing any work on the auto so why service it and add to the cost?

KB