Hill descent control and diff locks.

[GBC]

Most hdc I've seen will activate a brake light so if your trailer brakes activate off the brake light and not the pedal they will come on anyway.

Again, with regards the front locker, that is your opinion, mine is different. I've had brake fade from front discs overheating. I'll take traction and engine braking every time thanks.

[KingBilly]

Most hdc I've seen will activate a brake light so if your trailer brakes activate off the brake light and not the pedal they will come on anyway.

Again, with regards the front locker, that is your opinion, mine is different. I've had brake fade from front discs overheating. I'll take traction and engine braking every time thanks.

Um, doesn't traction control work by applying the brakes?  What am I missing?

KB

[tombie]

A front Locker does not provide engine braking, nor does it provide traction when descending... what it will do is find the low side of the trail and try to send the vehicle in that direction.

Regardless - not my rig, not my problem...



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[GBC]

Um, doesn't traction control work by applying the brakes?  What am I missing?

KB

Hdc is just braking.


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[KingBilly]

Hdc is just braking.


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Thought it also selected lower gears in the autos and held that gear?

KB

[tombie]

Thought it also selected lower gears in the autos and held that gear?

KB

Not in all vehicles...

Better to set yourself up for success..

CDL, Rear Locker, HDC, Low Range, 1st if needed, 2nd if not...

Descending is about smooth and controlled, not slow, you need to keep just enough momentum to maintain control..

Variable speed HDC is brilliant in this regard.


A quick dab of the brakes through HDC can be made as required.


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[GBC]

A front Locker does not provide engine braking, nor does it provide traction when descending... what it will do is find the low side of the trail and try to send the vehicle in that direction.

Regardless - not my rig, not my problem...



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I'd recommend re reading what you just wrote.

[Joff]

How bloody fast do you blokes descend really steep stuff to overcook brakes. Sounds like this HDC is more trouble than it's worth.

[tombie]

I'd recommend re reading what you just wrote.

I'd recommend not. If you can't grasp it that's not my problem... pick rather than learn. Top effort...

Traction in an offroad context is the ability to grip and maintain control.

Being low-sided due to lack of differential action forcing gravity to become an influence is hardly traction as we require it.

Hey, who cares... go do whatever you like.. you'll get away with it most of the time...



I forgot what this forum was like... remember now... full of closed minded, old school, time warped individuals who have no wish to share and debate best practices but rather to just self assert their (often incorrect) methodology upon those who are otherwise willing to listen, learn and expand their understanding.




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[tombie]

How bloody fast do you blokes descend really steep stuff to overcook brakes. Sounds like this HDC is more trouble than it's worth.

Spot on Joff
Nothing can replace driving skill..

But HDC is a great tool.. if the vehicle is correctly designed to utilise it.. those with smaller brakes sound like they're fading out easily.


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[Joff]

I'd recommend not. If you can't grasp it that's not my problem... pick rather than learn. Top effort...

Traction in an offroad context is the ability to grip and maintain control.

Being low-sided due to lack of differential action forcing gravity to become an influence is hardly traction as we require it.

Hey, who cares... go do whatever you like.. you'll get away with it most of the time...



I forgot what this forum was like... remember now... full of closed minded, old school, time warped individuals who have no wish to share and debate best practices but rather to just self assert their (often incorrect) methodology upon those who are otherwise willing to listen, learn and expand their understanding.




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I think the point being attempted (but I could wrong) was that front diff locks actually do provide traction when descending. In fact they do it far more effectively (given adequate engine retardation) than manual braking. The trouble is ONLY in the steering issue.

The fact is that there is not a 'one size fits all' technique despite what even 'professionals' might assert. If the situation is steep but with little risk of lifting a wheel then engaging a front locker is at best a waste and at worst a danger. But in a situation where the front end is being sprung skyward through cross axle undulations, engaged front lockers are very useful and in vehicles without individually computer controlled brake modulation help enormously. But the steering issue is still there as the tyres transition so caution is needed. (this is why I do not like any form of Auto locker or LSD in off road situations)

The wild card in this is side slip. Open centres deal with side slip better (up or down) because they allow one wheel to spin (or slide) while the other tracks keeping the vehicle (sometimes) from sliding sideways into the ditch. So, going back to the theme that 'there is no one size (or technique) that fits all' it comes down to understanding the way the vehicle behaves, understanding the function of the mechanicals if not the actual mechanicals themselves and applying the most appropriate set of mechanicals and techniques in a given situation.

I will use my front locker down hill if I think it will help me.

[GBC]

How bloody fast do you blokes descend really steep stuff to overcook brakes. Sounds like this HDC is more trouble than it's worth.

Its actually the other way around. The cars with HDC will generally go slower than engine braking would allow (otherwise what is the point...) and thus rely way too much on the brakes rather than the whole system and yes it heats up and fast becomes a gimmick when used in anger while towing in Shit country.

We have proven this on the 200 sahara, prado Kakadu and my ranger - all three had oil (melted grease) weeping past the front hubs and smoking off the discs after a particularly long hilly rutted downhill tow on a trip we did into the gold mining area around Newton Boyd. This changed our opinions rather quickly and after that one descent it was 'old school' lockers and low range with pulse braking to save the cars.

Here's someone else who has actually gotten off their arse and done it -

http://www.outbacktravelaustralia.com.au/4wd-mods-traction-aids/harrop-elocker

Good reading for anyone who wants to 'learn'.

[tombie]

Been there and done it too, many a time... perhaps I should write up a web site

200 brakes are marginal at best without a van on the Arse, Prado marginally better... I concede limited drive time in a Ranger.

HDC should not be solely used to descend a long descent, driving slightly through it uses engine braking and keeps the HDC from rattling away constantly - but leaves it fully functional for those low grip/slip moments.

HDC at its core technology requires exceptional brakes and even if used with lockers will be engaging to slow the vehicles descent - unless gearing / engine braking is greater...

The fact that the Toyota system burns up brakes demonstrates it is inadequate for purpose...




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