So the Ford Everest is not an offroad vehicle

[Fizzie]

Part Two

https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/the-mc-watch-offroad-classified-passenger-vehicles-in-australia/

KB

Had a read of those 2 articles & now I'm really confused - which isn't hard 

Now, I'm very happy with our Forester (although, if I was getting it now, I'd go for the 3l Outback) & it does everything we need it to do, but I'll be the first to admit that it's not a "real" 4x4, even though it's plated as category MC.

What I don't get from the article (extract from VSB14):

4.2.4 Overall Nominal Diameter The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to a passenger car or passenger car derivative must not be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model. The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:

4WD passenger vehicles specifically designed for off-road use (typically MC ADR category). All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles including those AWD vehicles that may be certified as MC ADR category, (also commonly known as soft roaders) are not included in this category;

So what does this paragraph actually mean Does it apply or not 

[alnjan]

If you are MA Passenger vehicle

4.2.4 Overall Nominal Diameter The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to a passenger car or passenger car derivative must not be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model. The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:

4WD passenger vehicles specifically designed for off-road use (typically MC ADR category). All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles including those AWD vehicles that may be certified as MC ADR category, (also commonly known as soft roaders) are not included in this category;
[ Source: Section LS, Tyres, Rims, Suspension and Steering, VSB 14, NCOP Version 2.1 Nov 2015 ]

If you are MC off road passenger vehicle

The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:

a 4WD passenger vehicle specifically designed for off-road use (MC ADR category other than a ‘soft roader’);
a 4WD goods vehicle and its 2WD equivalent if the chassis and running gear are essentially the same as the 4WD version (N ADR category); or
medium weight goods vehicle (NA2, NB ADR category);
must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle. Tyre diameters of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, tyre and body block, etc).

[ Source: Department of Transport and Main Roads, G19.6 released March 2014, updated Feb 2016 ]

[gronk]

Do the rules mention a lift for MA vehicles ?

As most or all new 4wds have ESC, even a MC vehicle can't have a tyre size increase AND a lift as well.

But we know most don't follow these rules, so what's the difference between bigger tyres for a MA or bigger tyres AND a lift for MC vehicles ?

[KingBilly]

As most or all new 4wds have ESC, even a MC vehicle can't have a tyre size increase AND a lift as well

Incorrect, in Qld at least

KB

[tk421]

VSB14

[gronk]

VSB14

Yep, and show us where you can (legally ) do a suspension lift as well as a tyre increase ??

[tk421]

Yep, and show us where you can (legally ) do a suspension lift as well as a tyre increase ??

VSB14. Section 4.11

https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP11_Section_LS_Tyres_Suspension_Steering_Nov_2015_v4.pdf

[gronk]

Yep, and show us where you can (legally ) do a suspension lift as well as a tyre increase ??

Still only to 50mm...  So a tyre increase of 25mm and a susp lift of 25mm......may as well save some bucks and only do a tyre increase of 50mm ??

[oldmate]

Still only to 50mm...  So a tyre increase of 25mm and a susp lift of 25mm......may as well save some bucks and only do a tyre increase of 50mm ??

The problem there is on a lot of new cars 1) you won't fit bigger Tyre's without lift

And 2) there is still laws on just the maximum Tyre's size you can fit. Which I think is 30mm??? Which only means you can generally only go to the next size up.

To get a 50mm lift from just Tyre's you need to for Tyre's that are 100mm bigger in diameter.   


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[gronk]

More the point is a lot of new 4wds have bigger tyres and more than 50mm lift and are obviously illegal, but doesn't seem to worry the owners, so worrying about a technicality like MA compared to MC rating isn't going to bother those same people who want to modify.

[oldmate]

I only answered the question you asked.



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[tk421]

More the point is a lot of new 4wds have bigger tyres and more than 50mm lift and are obviously illegal, but doesn't seem to worry the owners, so worrying about a technicality like MA compared to MC rating isn't going to bother those same people who want to modify.

Only illegal if you don't have it engineered and re-certified.  Granted many won't bother.

[gronk]

Only illegal if you don't have it engineered and re-certified.  Granted many won't bother.

On a newer 4wd with ESC, I don't believe you could have it engineered to have more than the allowed lift ?

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

On a newer 4wd with ESC, I don't believe you could have it engineered to have more than the allowed lift ?

Post on this or a similar forum related to this.  Was an older vehicle without ESC.
Vehicle Engineered, owner/operator charged by Mansfield Police for operating a vehicle that didn't comply.
Nissan Patrol with 4" lift and oversize tyres, not sure what else. 
Apparently the female Magistrate wouldn't accept the Engineers Certificate allowed the vehicle to be Registered.
Not sure what else became a problem for the Owner.
Might be someone else with better/more precise memory can help?

Getting closer and closer to time when you can't Register it with Non-OME or Manufacturer approved Accessories.
They've been working towards this for years, chipping away a bit at a time.
With ALL the Vehicle Manufacturing off shore, they (Government at any level) will just declare something a prohibited import.

So much for diversity and Australian Inventiveness.

[alnjan]

Post on this or a similar forum related to this.  Was an older vehicle without ESC.
Vehicle Engineered, owner/operator charged by Mansfield Police for operating a vehicle that didn't comply.
Nissan Patrol with 4" lift and oversize tyres, not sure what else. 
Apparently the female Magistrate wouldn't accept the Engineers Certificate allowed the vehicle to be Registered.
Not sure what else became a problem for the Owner.
Might be someone else with better/more precise memory can help?

Getting closer and closer to time when you can't Register it with Non-OME or Manufacturer approved Accessories.
They've been working towards this for years, chipping away a bit at a time.
With ALL the Vehicle Manufacturing off shore, they (Government at any level) will just declare something a prohibited import.

So much for diversity and Australian Inventiveness.

The lift and tyres where not certified at the time of the offence and thus why he failed at Court.    Speak to engineer before doing your lift or whatever and do as they say. 

[GeoffA]

.....
Getting closer and closer to time when you can't Register it with Non-OME or Manufacturer approved Accessories.
.....

OME will love that....

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

OME will love that....

Just sayin' if it's not in the Manufacturers approved list of Accessories, they'll forbid it being fitted.
I wasn't referring to EMU's
They've already done it with HID Headlights.

Joe Public will Love that, and he'll be confused as to how they did it.
Stroke of the pen'll fix anything, just ask a Politician.

[Bird]

the simple fact is nobody would buy one to go off road!!

[gronk]

the simple fact is nobody would buy one to go off road!!

What....an Everest ??   Saw one this arvo with BIG tyres on what looked like original rims....looked fairly tough, and why wouldn't it go offroad ??  Apart from the legalities of bigger tyres and lift, it would go the same places as any of the other mid size 4wds....including dual cab utes !

[Bird]

and why wouldn't it go offroad ??

theres about 500 better options to start with... most of it is plastic and would fall apart as it isn't designed for it. but we all have different opinions of "offroad"

[briann532]

Hey Bird, I agree with you, but seriously you should see the places I take my iload van!!!!
Company car.......goes anywhere.............

Undoubtedly the best off road vehicle in this country is a hire car!!!! Man those things go anywhere!!!!

[Bird]

Undoubtedly the best off road vehicle in this country is a hire car!!!! Man those things go anywhere!!!!

agree 1000%.... even hire mini buses. 


it all comes down to just cause you can doesn't mean its a good idea

[gronk]

theres about 500 better options to start with... most of it is plastic and would fall apart as it isn't designed for it. but we all have different opinions of "offroad"

Well, you had better cross off all the dual cab utes, Pajero Sport, Izuzu MUX, Colorado7, Pajero, .........umm, just leaves the 200 series and Patrol ??  Lot of plastic on those 2 these days as well.

Peoples opinion of offroad will always be different !!

[pinarelloman]

The proof readers should be sacked.

13.3 Raising of Four Wheel Drive Vehicles – Alternative to VSB 14 Modification Code LS

In the case of raising the height of an offroad type 4WD of ADR Categor NA, NB1, MC or MD, and only in this case, the following two options apply as alternatives to meeting the requirements of Section LS of VSB 14.

(the options are 75mm total lift, tyres and suspension, or 1/3 of suspenction travel and restrictions on tyre diameter)

[ Source: VSI 8 Guide to Modifications for Motor Vehicles ]


Spellcheck?

[Bird]

Well, you had better cross off all the dual cab utes, Pajero Sport, Izuzu MUX, Colorado7, Pajero, .........umm, just leaves the 200 series and Patrol ??  Lot of plastic on those 2 these days as well.

Peoples opinion of offroad will always be different !!

Have you seen the latest Vitara What the **** happened to that? Zooks used to be great 4b's... what I saw you wouldn't take into a coles carpark..