Author Topic: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016  (Read 88368 times)

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Offline xcvator

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #300 on: February 10, 2016, 07:21:39 AM »
Think ya have a big one on the hook Jeepers  ;D

Ferk me, I'm glad I'm too old to ride a bicycle  with some of you lot around :scared-eek::scared-eek:
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Offline edz

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #301 on: February 10, 2016, 07:30:37 AM »
You blokes are doing it all wrong with pedal power,  you need one of these modern race bikes instead of using a couple of torch batteries and electric drill motor  inside the frame  ;D
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Offline WCN_Bren

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #302 on: February 10, 2016, 08:51:07 AM »
Not so long ago in WA at least it was the law. Traffic code, regulation 211 used to state you must be seated, it has had a few amendments and now states "if seated..."  The amendment may have been as recent as 2013, as I found a blog quoting it from 2011 which was that you must be seated. It also says you must have one hand on the bars.
That law is about being "astride" ... one leg either side and facing forward. Yes, technically an officer might attempt to interpret that as also being seated but in the practical application of riding a bike we all know thats not possible 100% of the time and in certain situations may actually prove dangerous. The intention of that regualtion is clearly to ensure riders are riding safely and in a way that the bike was designed for. Geez, imagine the public backlash a magistrate or judge would recieve for upholding a fine for not being constantly seated on your bike. The NSW law is exactly the same... "astride". I believe the minister for transport is on record saying it does not mean a rider should be seated 100% - its about the orientation of the rider on the bike.

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Offline NewieCamper

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #303 on: February 10, 2016, 09:51:04 AM »
That law is about being "astride" ... one leg either side and facing forward. Yes, technically an officer might attempt to interpret that as also being seated but in the practical application of riding a bike we all know thats not possible 100% of the time and in certain situations may actually prove dangerous. The intention of that regualtion is clearly to ensure riders are riding safely and in a way that the bike was designed for. Geez, imagine the public backlash a magistrate or judge would recieve for upholding a fine for not being constantly seated on your bike. The NSW law is exactly the same... "astride". I believe the minister for transport is on record saying it does not mean a rider should be seated 100% - its about the orientation of the rider on the bike.

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The old version, no longer in force, stated if the bike has a seat, you must sit on it. They have reworded the regulation to not include that requirement (common sense)

Quote
Part 15 of the Road Traffic Code 2000 opens with regulation 211 which spells out how we must ride a bicycle, i.e., ride facing forward, have at least one hand on the bars (no hands free riding) and finally and the most interesting aspect is a rider must remain seated, i.e., one cannot stand up (regulation 211(c)) unless the bicycle does not have seat.  For the record, regulation 211(c) states:

“if the bicycle is equipped with a rider’s seat — ride the bicycle seated in or on that seat.”

Another version, I suspect from later (or could be a different state) is
Quote
(c) if the bicycle is equipped with a seat – not ride the bicycle seated in any other position on the bicycle.

Yes, the law is an ass. But sometimes they recognise the law was wrong, and change it.

Edit: Potentially the internet is actually wrong and the quotes above weren't right either so this has become an urban myth. Either way the current wording is more sensible.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 10:00:26 AM by NewieCamper »

Offline WCN_Bren

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #304 on: February 10, 2016, 10:16:49 AM »
Very interesting... i can find commentary but i cant find the "old law" itself. But it does go to show why its important to consult with the people you are making laws for / against. Cant imagine a cycling group agreed that it should be law to be seated at all times.
Pretty easy argument to make against though... spirit of law etc.

I like that you actually have quoted something and shown it...it soothes my soul. Thanks heaps.

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Offline Rumpig

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #305 on: February 10, 2016, 11:50:56 AM »
Ferk me, I'm glad I'm too old to ride a bicycle  with some of you lot around :scared-eek::scared-eek:
hey Jeepers...looks like we may have a double hook up  ;D  ;D
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Offline tk421

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #306 on: February 10, 2016, 11:53:31 AM »
On the weekend we were down driving along the rd between Gerrigong and Geroa on a road that sweeps up n down hills around bends with great coast line views. The government thought it would be good to build a great cycle lane 2.4 my wide concrete seperate from the road, not in a spot where mums with prams or Grans with white fluffy dogs would walk and we're does the bike rider ride you ask , Yes on the road next to the unbroken divide line. Happen to be travelling with an off duty highway patrol officer and his comment was that they should be able to book the rider if there is a cycle way and they don't use it.I agree

Your old mate doesn't know his road rules:

ROAD TRAFFIC CODE 2000 - REG 213
 
213 .         Riding in bicycle lane

                Wherever a bicycle lane is provided as part of a carriageway, and is in a reasonable condition for use, a rider of a bicycle shall use that portion of a carriageway and no other.


        Modified penalty: 1 PU
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Offline NewieCamper

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #307 on: February 10, 2016, 12:29:10 PM »
Your old mate doesn't know his road rules:

ROAD TRAFFIC CODE 2000 - REG 213
 
213 .         Riding in bicycle lane

                Wherever a bicycle lane is provided as part of a carriageway, and is in a reasonable condition for use, a rider of a bicycle shall use that portion of a carriageway and no other.


        Modified penalty: 1 PU

I'm not familiar with that road, and can only comment on what I've seen on streetview. If you look at the description of a bicycle lane, you might find that the path you refer to is not a bike lane. It is separated, so not part of the carriageway. It appears to be a sharepath although a sharepath is able to be used by bicycles it is not a bike lane.

A concrete path like that is uncomfortable to ride on a road bike due to the construction joints, they create bumps so assuming the bike was a road bike the path is not in a reasonable condition compared to the road. I'd probably ride it on a mountain bike, but a road bike I'd have to assess before trying it.

Yes, it's getting picky, but that is what the law does.

Did that cyclist actually hold anyone up for a significant amount of time (minutes, not seconds)? Is the road windy and makes the cyclist difficult to see on approach? Is it that busy there is no option to pass safely? It certainly appears to be a seaside town

Offline tk421

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #308 on: February 10, 2016, 12:46:31 PM »
I'm not familiar with that road, and can only comment on what I've seen on streetview. If you look at the description of a bicycle lane, you might find that the path you refer to is not a bike lane. It is separated, so not part of the carriageway. It appears to be a sharepath although a sharepath is able to be used by bicycles it is not a bike lane.

A concrete path like that is uncomfortable to ride on a road bike due to the construction joints, they create bumps so assuming the bike was a road bike the path is not in a reasonable condition compared to the road. I'd probably ride it on a mountain bike, but a road bike I'd have to assess before trying it.

Yes, it's getting picky, but that is what the law does.

Did that cyclist actually hold anyone up for a significant amount of time (minutes, not seconds)? Is the road windy and makes the cyclist difficult to see on approach? Is it that busy there is no option to pass safely? It certainly appears to be a seaside town

I drive it once every couple of months. The Gerringong end is shared path then it turns into separated cycle lane- (which cyclists have to use by law). Cycle lane on the left as you head to Gerroa right about here:  https://goo.gl/maps/QmNeK6bvqA72
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Offline scblack

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #309 on: February 10, 2016, 12:49:04 PM »
I'm not familiar with that road, and can only comment on what I've seen on streetview. If you look at the description of a bicycle lane, you might find that the path you refer to is not a bike lane. It is separated, so not part of the carriageway. It appears to be a sharepath although a sharepath is able to be used by bicycles it is not a bike lane.

A concrete path like that is uncomfortable to ride on a road bike due to the construction joints, they create bumps so assuming the bike was a road bike the path is not in a reasonable condition compared to the road. I'd probably ride it on a mountain bike, but a road bike I'd have to assess before trying it.

Yes, it's getting picky, but that is what the law does.

Did that cyclist actually hold anyone up for a significant amount of time (minutes, not seconds)? Is the road windy and makes the cyclist difficult to see on approach? Is it that busy there is no option to pass safely? It certainly appears to be a seaside town
***Edit - its closer to the road than I recall. I'd be using that pathway for sure if I was riding there.***

I'll generally always use a pathway if its reasonably convenient - you never know when a redneck might be hammering along, or texting and not paying full attention.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 12:55:55 PM by scblack »
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Offline NewieCamper

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #310 on: February 10, 2016, 01:05:36 PM »
I drive it once every couple of months. The Gerringong end is shared path then it turns into separated cycle lane- (which cyclists have to use by law). Cycle lane on the left as you head to Gerroa right about here:  https://goo.gl/maps/QmNeK6bvqA72
While it looks like it is a cycle lane, unless it has a 'bicycle lane sign', and a 'bicycle lane end' it isnt (not in streetview in 2010). Having said that the section up the hill into Gerroa looks like a section I would choose to ride, as would most.

Councils get carried away putting in 'cycle infrastructure', but when push comes to shove a lot of it doesn't meet the required standard, so is not required to be used - and wont be used by a fast moving cyclist, because it is better to be on the roads where there are less obstructions. There are so many useless and dangerous bits of cycle infrastructure around that it is easier, and safer, to be a part of the traffic. Just this morning I chose to use the right lane around a roundabout to turn right, rather than stop and cross the road to an island twice

Offline WCN_Bren

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #311 on: February 10, 2016, 01:37:23 PM »
The big issue I have with the whole issue of the alleged safety for all involved and the increased infringement notices, sorry revenue raising, is if the powers that  be were really concerned about safety instead of introducing new rules to 'share' the road and everyone will be safe, which we know is prone not to be the case, spend the revenue on infrastructure and build separate cycle ways off the main roadway and make all safe.


Couldn't agree more. The one thing research shows worldwide...dedicated cycleways  :cheers:
It's great for gov'ts to say they want to increase cycling but they need to increase infrastructure at the same rate.

The Vic High Country (Parks Vic) is a great example of this... the sheer amount of toilets they now have throughout the place is impressive. They could have banged on about fining people for not digging appropriate holes etc but by providing the amenities they have made camping more appealing to many and kept the place tidy as well.

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Offline WCN_Bren

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #312 on: February 10, 2016, 01:56:16 PM »
I drive it once every couple of months. The Gerringong end is shared path then it turns into separated cycle lane- (which cyclists have to use by law). Cycle lane on the left as you head to Gerroa right about here:  https://goo.gl/maps/QmNeK6bvqA72
It's pretty easy to argue the cycle lane is not in an adequate condition to use. They are almost always substandard to the road. If that's the bike lane way out on the left edge there is no wonder some cyclists don't use it. I'd suspect it's substandard to the rest of the road and the amount of debris out there is usually dangerous.
I would rather not do it but on a busy road like that, i would rather ride just in the lane and veer over (to the left) when cars were approaching from behind or at least ride close to the lane line. Way out there on the left you will find bad road surface, potholes, spanners, car trim, nails, screws, glass, etc I've collected a whole tool kit over the years. I'm not saying that's the right thing to do, i'm merely suggesting that to a cyclist that it's probably the safest option.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 01:58:49 PM by WCN_Bren »
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Offline stabicraft

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #313 on: February 10, 2016, 02:18:13 PM »
Today I saw proof that lycra clad loonies do in fact drive cars.
And that they behave the same way in cars that they do when treadling.

On the Pacific highway this afternoon, I was in the overtaking lane coming up on some slow moving traffic.
The slow lane was moving at around 70 klm/hr and the speed limit was 90 klm/hr.

As I was overtaking, a small late model vehicle pulled out in front of me without indicating.
As I am a careful driver, apart from a small sudden braking event, there was no real issue.
It was several kilometers later that I realised that said car was not overtaking, but was in fact keeping pace with the slower truck in the left lane.
On closer examination I also noted that said car had two bikes mounted on the roof in that well known Cockatoo format.

Now, I was in no hurry, so I was happy to just sit behind and observe, but a vehicle was coming up behind me rather quickly, so I moved into the left lane to allow him to pass.

Stupid thought, the little car with the bikes refused to move and when the faster car tooted him (it was a toot not a blaring horn) he was shown the car drivers finger, which I think was an effort to explain that he had injured it and that was why he was driving so slowly.

This went on for a while and after much tailgating from the vehicle behind the car, the intelligent truck driver in front of me realised that it was an accident waiting to happen, he therefore slowed to allow the faster vehicle to slip up the inside and around the idiot in front.

There was some swerving and more demonstration of sore fingers from both the passenger and drivers windows of the small car before the faster vehicle finally managed to pass him and be on his way.
Seeing an opportunity, I pulled out and followed the faster car and was again on my merry way.

The Pacific highway in the area of this incident has several traffic lights, and due to being held up at said lights and also because of some traffic, the small car manged to catch up.
Now I think the car driver forgot that he was in a car, so he slipped down the breakdown lane all the way to the front where he almost caused an accident as he pulled into the traffic, again without indicator, and happily proceeded to travel at a snails pace again.

It appears it may not just be the bike that causes the brains of these Lycra clad loonies to act like total and absolute morons, it must be a hereditary thing. I wonder if there is some gene that attracts these morons to bikes?
Or is it the esky lid that stops the brain from cooling, therefore overheating it to the point of idiocy?

Whatever the reason, I now know that its not just bikes that the Lycra clad loonies drive with reckless abandon.
Its also the cars that they drive afterward.

Offline NewieCamper

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #314 on: February 10, 2016, 02:23:38 PM »
It hasn't got anything to do with lycra, helmets or bikes. Some people are just (insert your favourite derogatory term here) wether in a car, on a bike, walking, standing at the bar, camping, surfing.
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Offline Jeepers Creepers

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #315 on: February 10, 2016, 03:28:01 PM »
hey Jeepers...looks like we may have a double hook up  ;D  ;D

Hmmm, gotta go and get a treble hook and give it my best shot.  ;D

What I really need is some good pics to put up.
I might have to trash another door mirror and go get me one of them darn ol law breaking cyclists and knock 'em arse over elbow and post a pic.

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Offline WCN_Bren

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #316 on: February 10, 2016, 03:38:59 PM »
Today I saw proof that lycra clad loonies do in fact drive cars.
And that they behave the same way in cars that they do when treadling.


Today it took me 12 minutes to do an 8  minute trip because a guy in his 4wd was doing 50 in an 80 zone. I could count 16 cars behind me and 5 between the hilux and myself. 22 cars being held up because it's double lines the whole way along this particular road. 
Realising my heart rate lifted from 47bpm to 49bpm I concluded it was just further proof 4wd's should be banned from regional and city areas. No matter where they are they think they own the road. Sheeeeeesh.
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Offline Snow

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #317 on: February 10, 2016, 04:56:25 PM »
I've found that happy medium between riding a pushie on the road and driving on the road. And I always give Cyclists the room required. 😎
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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #318 on: February 10, 2016, 05:16:23 PM »
Falcon Work Van. 1

Is that thing still alive ?
With enough horse power, sheer ignorance and a total lack of respect for your vehicle, you'll get through....

Offline Jeepers Creepers

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #319 on: February 10, 2016, 05:21:37 PM »
Is that thing still alive ?


It rolled 700,000 klm a few weeks back.

Mate, its a rocket ship...... 0 to the ton in 48 hours as one famous person quoted once

« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 05:28:52 PM by Jeepers Creepers »
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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #320 on: February 10, 2016, 05:23:05 PM »

Today it took me 12 minutes to do an 8  minute trip because a guy in his 4wd was doing 50 in an 80 zone. I could count 16 cars behind me and 5 between the hilux and myself. 22 cars being held up because it's double lines the whole way along this particular road. 
Realising my heart rate lifted from 47bpm to 49bpm I concluded it was just further proof 4wd's should be banned from regional and city areas. No matter where they are they think they own the road. Sheeeeeesh.
well there's your problem right there. It was a Hirux. I know another forum admin that has a Lada that is more powerful

Offline Fathom

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #321 on: February 10, 2016, 05:39:06 PM »

well there's your problem right there. It was a Hirux. I know another forum admin that has a Lada that is more powerful
That's hard to argue. You just can't top a Lada. Surely it's the ultimate in advanced off road technology and power.
The bigger issue here is...  How will the poor bloke that owns one use all that power with those bicycles, motorbikes, 4wds, campers, caravans, trucks, drones skateboards, mums with prams,
hover boards etc using up his road.
Now... If they made a Lada with Lycra...
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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #322 on: February 10, 2016, 05:39:34 PM »
I got stuck behind a truck doing less than half the speed limit... and then trying to survive the mayhem aa everyone tried getting around him. ..i think all trucks should be banned as welll...they just dont accelerate from the lights quick enough and one even parked in the middle of the road today...you think they own it

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #323 on: February 10, 2016, 06:03:53 PM »

I got stuck behind a truck doing less than half the speed limit... and then trying to survive the mayhem aa everyone tried getting around him. ..i think all trucks should be banned as welll...they just dont accelerate from the lights quick enough and one even parked in the middle of the road today...you think they own it

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Offline xcvator

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Re: NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016
« Reply #324 on: February 10, 2016, 06:18:52 PM »
 I've found that happy medium between riding a pushie on the road and driving on the road. And I always give Cyclists the room required. 😎
 
 * image.jpg (58.09 kB, 299x448 - viewed 22 times.)

But,but ,but, that's not lycra your wearing is it Snow  :angel: I really hope you're not trolling now  ;D ;D
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