The only way to go???

[KeithB]

Hi all,
Went to the big Sydney caravan and camping show at Rosehill today to look at luxury off road crossover campers with showers and dunnies to pinch some ideas for the one I am trying to build. It was a great show and we had a lovely day. All of the sales staff we spoke to were great.

One thing that shocked me was the pricing of some of the latest crossover caravan-cum-camper trailers, which seem to start at about $70 grand for something very basic and then head north well past $100K-$115K. I suppose you get what you pay for and quality and luxury with a shower and a loo don't come cheaply.

The other thing that struck me is the absence of innovation, both in execution and design. They all use the same components and have pretty much identical chassis and suspensions and so on. They seem to be making their sales pitch on the basis that their own particular choice of fitments is the only one to go, as opposed to whatever the opposition if offering.

One manufacturer's brochure tells me that a marine macerating toilet with a 20 litre tank is the only way to go. Maybe he should try emptying one.

Another one says that lithium batteries are "not proven" and are definitely not the way to go. The same one says that diesel fired hot water is a drain on the batteries (maybe his batteries) and is definitely not the way to go.

They all say that independent trailing arm with coil springs are the only way to go except for one who has had an epiphany and discovered that air springs are actually lighter, ride better and really are the way to go. In one of the campers on offer, you have to straddle the dunny to have a shower and the crapper is behind a curtain about three feet from the sink. That's nobody's way to go.

In all the designs, if they have a space of any shape that they can't use, they call it "storage".  One camper has well over two cubic metres of storage for stuff, bugger-all storage for people and precious little space inside to store your undies. Yet they all can carry a payload of about 500kg or so (incl water, gas and so on  with no allowance for the long list of optional extras), so I guess you'll have to fill all that storage up with feathers.

And why do they put all of these strange looking boxes and lockers on the drawbar instead of tapering the body forward at full height to make more room inside for actual people?

For the big bucks being asked, surely there is a manufacturer who can think outside the square?

Maybe that's just not the way to go.
Keith

[Ynot]

Great review K, enjoyed your take on it:)


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[chillipepperz]

I agree Keith, be interesting to see what you end up with in your build. Do you have a timeline? Cheers! Andrew

[KeithB]

Hey Andrew,
My time line is definitely not the way to go. Have had the chassis built for well over a year or more and I'm still trying to get the design right. Every time I get ready to start fabrication, I think up a new way to complicate the thing. It's a pop-up roof thingy with no canvas and a pullout-pop-up bed which also has no canvas. 
Getting everything to fit on paper in a dust-tight design has been a bit of a nightmare - especially working out doors that change height and still manage to open and close. Weight distribution is another headache.
It's to be made out of an epoxy-plastic honeycomb composite which I'll get machined into parts on a big N-C router. So once I commit to a design, there is no going back.
So I've been farting around with it for quite a long time, which in itself has been a bit of an adventure. I'm kinda dreading making a start in case I've got it wrong.
Keith

[dazzler]

And why do they put all of these strange looking boxes and lockers on the drawbar instead of tapering the body forward at full height to make more room inside for actual people?

"Ooh look Bob, theres space left on the drawbar, lets bolt on some crap to make it look tougher"

At least thats what I heard Bob say. 


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[macca]

Totally agree with you Keith , I cant understand why even the trailer manufacturers dont build the tool box, gull wing, storage lockers, whatever into the shape of the actual trailer. Why design a trailer then stick an extra box on the drawbar, bit like car manufacturers building a car then sticking a tool box on the tow bar because they forgot the boot.
Having said that when I built my trailer what do you reckon i stuck on the drawbar , my new design I'm working on I have integrated it into the main body

macca

[jclures]

Good review Keith, I to have been giving some thought into camp trailer design, for the money some pay, you would need to be living it them every weekend just to make them viable.

I know if I was to build another camper I might go back to the past for me, but build a purpose built camper, not a trailer then build a camper.

[Bird]

for the money some pay, you would need to be living it them every weekend just to make them viable.

Agree x lots and lots.

Its almost like they are all still living with the "this design sells, don't change it" mentality... But then again when people come up with new designs people Shit tin them.. so you can understand

[UIZ733]

Some of the observations or criticisms outlined here have been addressed (rather well) by Vista. Did you have a look at their products?
Regards

[Dion]

The prices are pretty crazy.

I'd like something that has:
- Queen size bed
- Bunks for kids
- Inside loo (no need for a shower, but a loo is nice in order to minimise handling porta-potties and gives you a lot more independence)
- Outside cooking
- Inbuilt hot water
- Quick and easy outdoor shower

It seems you have to spend $90k for something like that .... which to me just sounds insane.

[BrisVegasGolfer]

The prices are pretty crazy.

I'd like something that has:
- Queen size bed
- Bunks for kids
- Inside loo (no need for a shower, but a loo is nice in order to minimise handling porta-potties and gives you a lot more independence)
- Outside cooking
- Inbuilt hot water
- Quick and easy outdoor shower

It seems you have to spend $90k for something like that .... which to me just sounds insane.

Couldn't agree more mate.  The prices are staggering to me.  I guess if I sold my house and hit the road for good, then it could be justified, but that's a long way off for me.

[chester ver2.0]

The dont innovate cause the people they sell them to are crotchety old nomads who are so set in their ways they will not budge

I saw some great designs when i was in europe and they try to get em over here but you guessed it the same old wont handle australian conditions tripe is brought out, which is BS take the autobahns out of the equasion and there is some so called sealed back roads in europe that make the Gibb look like a freeway

So back to a metal box on a 6 inch chassis which becomes heavier and heavier we go.

After working OS for a while i honestly find the average australian are the most resitant to change in the world

[koshari]

The prices are pretty crazy.

I'd like something that has:
- Queen size bed
- Bunks for kids
- Inside loo (no need for a shower, but a loo is nice in order to minimise handling porta-potties and gives you a lot more independence)
- Outside cooking
- Inbuilt hot water
- Quick and easy outdoor shower

It seems you have to spend $90k for something like that .... which to me just sounds insane.

My path was to get a light and reasonably solid 15' viscount ultralite and add the functionality myself. So far I have spent about 6k. Still want to put a gas heater in it.

If you wanted to it would be pretty easy to convert the cupboard to a loo.

[Bird]

I dunno, just personal, but I'd rather have the bog outside.

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

I dunno, just personal, but I'd rather have the bog outside.

x2
Nothing like the wafting odours to ruin anything.

[macca]

I dunno, just personal, but I'd rather have the bog outside.

Me too, in fact my missus would like it that way at home too

[KeithB]

Some of the observations or criticisms outlined here have been addressed (rather well) by Vista. Did you have a look at their products?
Regards

[/ftp]

I really admire the Vista asymetric link suspension and overall construction, but they don't offer a bathroom and weren't at the Rosehill Show, so they didn't make our camper-porn list.

But I notice on their website that their crossover camper has 868 litres of external storage. If you fill the jerries, the gas bottles and the water tanks (with the big tank option) you end up with just 137 kilos of load capacity. That has to fill the fridge, the grocery drawer and all your personal stuff - plus 868 litres of feathers in the external storage lockers for which there is no load capacity.

Why can't they parlay all of that unusable locker space into a shower and/or dunny - or room for actual people?

[bobnrob]

The prices are pretty crazy.

I'd like something that has:
- Queen size bed
- Bunks for kids
- Inside loo (no need for a shower, but a loo is nice in order to minimise handling porta-potties and gives you a lot more independence)
- Outside cooking
- Inbuilt hot water
- Quick and easy outdoor shower

It seems you have to spend $90k for something like that .... which to me just sounds insane.

Close to my idea of ideal...

- Queen size bed
- porta-pottie - the minister insist on for night time use
- Outside cooking
- Inbuilt hot water...would be nice, but not a deal breaker for me
- Quick and easy outdoor shower...already got it, one of them popup tent thingies