Author Topic: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?  (Read 38588 times)

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Offline Nick74

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #75 on: February 25, 2014, 08:20:34 PM »
I got a response from my manufacturer. It's not what I was expecting but overall I am pretty darn happy with the result. I would like to tell you all what it was, or who the manufacturer is, but I can't.  ???

Overall I feel great that the manufacturer addressed my issue to my satisfaction. That seems to be a level of satisfaction that is not often realised in after sales service........sooooooo YAY for me!!  ;D
Cheers Nick
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Offline Barry G

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #76 on: February 25, 2014, 08:39:56 PM »
So what are you trying to say here Josh.
That MDC has an illegal hitch? You are so far from the truth ;););)

The hitch is certified by an Australian business that is still operating.
We are not giving out the details, because we have spent the time and money on the engineering and certification.


This is not something we are prepared to give away to our competitors for free.


As stated in this thread, our hitch was brought into disrepute by Big Jules, who sells another brand of camper trailer.
This was just a quiet dig at MDC, and that is fine. It was going on at the Camper Trailer Australia Magazine, Camper Trailer of the Year awards in Robe also. We are the new guys on the block, playing with the well established brands now.
Its all fun and games.

Happy Camping ;)
MDC Insider

How exactly does making public who did the testing give away your intellectual property?
Likewise the method of testing.

In effect, you are inferring that if your competitors knew who did your testing they could take their hitches of similar looking design to that tester and he would just 'rubber stamp' them as compliant.
Surely the tester would test any other manufacturers hitch using exactly the same techniques that he used on yours, and charge the same price, after all, that is how such a business makes its income.

Or are you saying that another manufacturer would be stupid enough to forge a 'report', using the name of a fake tester, in order to make their hitch appear compliant?  Such a scenario is laughable, and wouldn't survive scrutiny of the first failure.

What you actually own, and spent the $ to obtain the certification for, is the specification of your hitch, and any unique design features, which you are entitled to not disclose.

So long as your hitch continues to be built to that specification then the certification is valid.  In the event of a failure resulting in any legal action (e.g. police / courts / coroner - heaven forbid) you could be required to disclose the specification etc, so that compliance with certification can be established, perhaps also your certifier may be called on to give evidence in that regard.

Frankly, posting 'redacted' documents - i.e. with relevant information blacked out - for, IMO, spurious reasons that you have stated appears disingenuous.  Not only does it do you and your company no credit, it raises more questions than it answers.  If I was in the market for a camper such as yours it puts me off purtchasing from you.

As for Big Jules, I have purchased from him and found him honest and his products first class.  In the end that is all I need to know about any vendor, whether a swagger or otherwise.
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Offline Silvo

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #77 on: February 25, 2014, 08:55:11 PM »
funny thread...

lock it.. it will quickly turn into a waste of time. (my post included)
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Offline jkwpajero

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #78 on: February 25, 2014, 08:56:05 PM »
There is an easy way out of it if you have a camper with a knockoff copy of the Tegg or Trigg Bros hitch on it. Ditch it and get one of the well known Australian made and certified hitches put on. Might be an extra expense to start with but what cost do you put on your and your families safety and peace of mind.  And people do it all the time, in search of the perfect way to couple up. Just a thought. I have a DO35 on mine, just for the record. And I agree, this thread could be all down hill from here

 :cheers:
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« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 09:00:53 PM by jkwpajero »
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Offline Malcolm Tugless

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #79 on: February 25, 2014, 08:57:29 PM »
The suggestion of locking a thread because there's healthy general discussion about the legality of hitches and whether they're copied or not. Yet people are allowed to call Telemarketers "Elephant Washers" (on numerous posts and different threads) and there's no suggestion of locking that thread or even a mention to watch the racists remarks? 3 times it's mentioned. 3 chances for someone to read a public forum, get their knickers in a twist (quite rightly) and seek legal advise, resulting in a letter regarding racist remarks.

I'm no way am I saying you used the term Malcolm and yes they annoy the sh|t out of me too, but locking a thread for no apparent reason except for the fear of a potential legal threat, likely because of another 3-letter manufacturer getting their knickers in a twist, is ridiculous. Especially, as all I can see is MDC being happy to discuss their brand on this Forum, clearly they love advertising their product too, but I can't see how someone has overstepped the boundaries requiring it to be locked?

Its not for fear of legalities that I think the thread should be terminated. My reasoning is primarily to do with the fact one person with ties to an imported camper trailer manufacturer has bought to light "legislation" in regards to tow hitch compliance of imported camper trailers. Now whilst thats all well and good, the tone of the conversation directed at one of these companies; who has tried to placate the angry mob, is (in my opinion) not.

Robust conversation is fine, so long as it remains in context. Its now become a bit of a MDC bashing competition. Personally, I wouldn't own one, but thats neither here nor there. What is relevant in this dialogue, is the fact that when faced with this constant barrage against him/them, the MDC guy quite rightly pointed out that the instigator of the thread has ties to their opposition. Now Big Jules may not have been having a dig, but plenty of other are.

Right or wrong MDC cannot "win" this argument. They're not going to be allowed to, and thats not healthy conversation in anybodies book. Threads have been deleted and/or closed for far less.

Regardless of the motives for posting the original comments, its the conflict of interests, perceived or not, that has muddied the waters. I won't go on and on with this, if people can't see the hypocrisy that is starting to seep into the conversation, thats fine, I know I'm probably in the minority with these views. I can live with that. I'll just stop reading it.

I'm not aware of these racist comments, thankfully I missed that thread. Thats not on either, especially in an open forum.

 

Offline Market Direct Campers

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #80 on: February 25, 2014, 09:04:22 PM »
How exactly does making public who did the testing give away your intellectual property?
Likewise the method of testing.

In effect, you are inferring that if your competitors knew who did your testing they could take their hitches of similar looking design to that tester and he would just 'rubber stamp' them as compliant.
NO, I doubt this would happen at all.

Quote
Surely the tester would test any other manufacturers hitch using exactly the same techniques that he used on yours, and charge the same price, after all, that is how such a business makes its income.
Yes, You are correct.

Quote
Or are you saying that another manufacturer would be stupid enough to forge a 'report', using the name of a fake tester, in order to make their hitch appear compliant?  Such a scenario is laughable, and wouldn't survive scrutiny of the first failure.
Yes, there are manufacturers out there that slap labels on without testing.

Quote
What you actually own, and spent the $ to obtain the certification for, is the specification of your hitch, and any unique design features, which you are entitled to not disclose.
Yes, You are correct.

Quote
So long as your hitch continues to be built to that specification then the certification is valid.  In the event of a failure resulting in any legal action (e.g. police / courts / coroner - heaven forbid) you could be required to disclose the specification etc, so that compliance with certification can be established, perhaps also your certifier may be called on to give evidence in that regard.
Yes, You are correct.

Quote
Frankly, posting 'redacted' documents - i.e. with relevant information blacked out - for, IMO, spurious reasons that you have stated appears disingenuous.  Not only does it do you and your company no credit, it raises more questions than it answers.  If I was in the market for a camper such as yours it puts me off purchasing from you.
Sorry, I do not think you are right on this one. Documentation has been lodged with the relevant government authorities.
Our integrity as a company and a manufacturer of camper trailers was brought into question.
We are being targeted because we are the only company who has manufactured their own hitch, had it certified to Australian standards and had it done many years before this banter even started on this forum.

Quote
As for Big Jules, I have purchased from him and found him honest and his products first class.  In the end that is all I need to know about any vendor, whether a swagger or otherwise.
This is great, certainly Trackabout has a sound product. Maybe one day MDC will have multiple products to the high Standards as Trackabout. We certainly are working on it.

If a person states an untruth about our company on this forum, we will defend our company with proof, pictures, videos and everything we have to put our point across.

Happy Camping ;)
MDC Insider
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 09:15:31 PM by Market Direct Campers »
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Offline bluejay

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #81 on: February 25, 2014, 09:17:17 PM »
Anyone and every one just buy a tregg hitch all good end of discussion .and the usual im not related to the tregg bros etc etc etc

Offline evans52

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #82 on: February 25, 2014, 09:28:02 PM »

If a person states an untruth about our company on this forum, we will defend our company with proof, pictures, videos and everything we have to put our point across.

Happy Camping ;)
MDC Insider

There's my point. Happy to defend their product. No need to close the thread in my eyes. And not because I want to see a slinging match, I just can't stand people being censored when trying to make a point. My Wife hates the fact I always try and get the last word in. hence I said "try" - I never do.

Its not for fear of legalities that I think the thread should be terminated. My reasoning is primarily to do with the fact one person with ties to an imported camper trailer manufacturer has bought to light "legislation" in regards to tow hitch compliance of imported camper trailers. Now whilst thats all well and good, the tone of the conversation directed at one of these companies; who has tried to placate the angry mob, is (in my opinion) not.

Robust conversation is fine, so long as it remains in context. Its now become a bit of a MDC bashing competition. Personally, I wouldn't own one, but thats neither here nor there. What is relevant in this dialogue, is the fact that when faced with this constant barrage against him/them, the MDC guy quite rightly pointed out that the instigator of the thread has ties to their opposition. Now Big Jules may not have been having a dig, but plenty of other are.

Right or wrong MDC cannot "win" this argument. They're not going to be allowed to, and thats not healthy conversation in anybodies book. Threads have been deleted and/or closed for far less.

Regardless of the motives for posting the original comments, its the conflict of interests, perceived or not, that has muddied the waters. I won't go on and on with this, if people can't see the hypocrisy that is starting to seep into the conversation, thats fine, I know I'm probably in the minority with these views. I can live with that. I'll just stop reading it.

I'm not aware of these racist comments, thankfully I missed that thread. Thats not on either, especially in an open forum.

Agree being "attacked" or "discredited" directly or in an underlying manner is not cool. However, MDC Insider is willing to give as good as they get. Let it carry on until either they feel they are being hard done by, offended or screwed over. IF........if they dig themselves a hole, it's on them.

Offline Barry G

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #83 on: February 25, 2014, 10:22:41 PM »
How exactly does disclosing who did the testing adversely effect MDC?
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Offline jkwpajero

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #84 on: February 26, 2014, 08:22:28 AM »
How exactly does disclosing who did the testing adversely effect MDC?


And really, you would not need to be Sherlock Holmes to find out who the testing agency is. It will be on the public record somewhere, if what has been said is all factual. Not suggesting it is not,  but blacking out a document is opening a can of worms. Who knows what was censored for effect. http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2010C00153 will tell you what the testing parameters are and I am sure that NATA (National Association of Testing Authorities, Australia) http://www.nata.asn.au/ may well be the place to track down the testing agency.


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« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 08:54:20 AM by jkwpajero »
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Offline Banjo16

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #85 on: February 26, 2014, 05:42:19 PM »
Ok, don't know if it's just me(& don't care if it is) but I think this has run its course.
Initially there was some good points covered but I think it's all been rehashed & it's time to move on.

Cheers
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Offline chester ver2.0

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2014, 10:34:58 AM »
How exactly does disclosing who did the testing adversely effect MDC?

Allright i will try to explain; the testing report as well as containing the testing agencies name will also contain steel used inc grade etc, fittings used, construction method used, field testing method used, previsous version trials, CAD or other drawing numbers, patents filed or pending it will also contain the method of test by the agency themselves and also protype testing methods MDC utilised to get the hitch to a point where they were confident to submit it for certification and god knows what else

So what do you think other say overseas manufacturers would do when they find all of this information on a public forum. Especially when they are already probably getting pressure from their OZ distributers to put better designed hitches on thier campers yep you guessed it devise a copy for a fraction of the price and write a joke email to MDC thanking them for doing all the hard work then posting it in the public domain

So yes it would be in MDC best commercial, and intellectual property interests to remove some details off the report.

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Offline Barry G

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #87 on: February 27, 2014, 12:28:52 PM »
Chester,

This is the relevant part of what I wrote at post #27.

Some parts highlighted in blue and some underlined as well..

How exactly does making public who did the testing give away your intellectual property?
Likewise the method of testing.

In effect, you are inferring that if your competitors knew who did your testing they could take their hitches of similar looking design to that tester and he would just 'rubber stamp' them as compliant.
Surely the tester would test any other manufacturers hitch using exactly the same techniques that he used on yours, and charge the same price, after all, that is how such a business makes its income.

Or are you saying that another manufacturer would be stupid enough to forge a 'report', using the name of a fake tester, in order to make their hitch appear compliant?  Such a scenario is laughable, and wouldn't survive scrutiny of the first failure.

What you actually own, and spent the $ to obtain the certification for, is the specification of your hitch, and any unique design features, which you are entitled to not disclose.


I have highlighted in red in your post the matters which I totally agree could reasonably be redacted in what they have posted. 
Allright i will try to explain; the testing report as well as containing the testing agencies name will also contain steel used inc grade etc, fittings used, construction method used, field testing method used, previsous version trials, CAD or other drawing numbers, patents filed or pending it will also contain the method of test by the agency themselves and also protype testing methods MDC utilised to get the hitch to a point where they were confident to submit it for certification and god knows what else
So what do you think other say overseas manufacturers would do when they find all of this information on a public forum. Especially when they are already probably getting pressure from their OZ distributers to put better designed hitches on thier campers yep you guessed it devise a copy for a fraction of the price and write a joke email to MDC thanking them for doing all the hard work then posting it in the public domain

So yes it would be in MDC best commercial, and intellectual property interests to remove some details off the report.

However, as a prospective customer, I would want to know who did the testing, which is what you are saying is unreasonable. I would prefer to also know how they tested it, although arguably that is less important, as it is being certified by an identified, qualified tester.

Without at least the identity of the tester customers are being asked to take 'on faith' that the original document is legitimate.  That might be sufficient if purchasing a heavily regulated product produced by a large publicly listed company with significant assetts behind them - for example car manufacturers.  However that is not the case with the camper industry as, with the possible exception of the likes of Jayco, it is just too easy for companies to go 'belly up' and disappear.

This is not in any way directed at MDC, as I would have the same concerns about any other make, given the number of small producers / importers who can, and do, cease production on a regular basis.

« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 01:01:03 PM by B&B »
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Offline D4D

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #88 on: February 27, 2014, 12:31:21 PM »
Frankly who cares, move along.
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Offline Market Direct Campers

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #89 on: February 27, 2014, 01:00:32 PM »
B2B,

We are not posting the details and Chester has got it nailed as far as we are concerned.
We are not commenting on this post anymore. We have the ADR approval in place and have done so for years.

Happy Camping ;)
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Offline aussieducker

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #90 on: February 27, 2014, 02:16:16 PM »
To me it's like having a uni degree but blanking out the uni name on certificate. IMHO lacks credibility to not disclose tester. Don't need methods or ins and out just a certificate, passed or failed.


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Offline GGV8Cruza

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #91 on: February 27, 2014, 02:35:51 PM »
I think we need to stop going around in circles. The main thing to look at is that your hitch is certified to the correct standard and is well maintained with the appropriate safety chains installed and attached to the tug when towing.

If your hitch does not meet the grade I would change it out as soon as possible to ensure that you do not have a failure when towing, like several of the members have.

Thanks to BigJules for bringing this to everyones attention

GG

Offline Barry G

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #92 on: February 27, 2014, 02:52:23 PM »
Tyhis is what I look for, someone who is prepared to state clearly how their hitch was tested, to what limits and show pics of the testing regime.

http://ozhitch.com/testing/

What attracted me was the design, what 'sold' me was the transparency.

Couldn't imagine they would sell many hitches with a post of a 'chess board' (i.e. as much black as white) 'certificate'.
I can't see why I would accept a lesser standard of transparency just because it came attached to a camper.   :cheers:
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Offline Barry G

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #93 on: February 27, 2014, 02:53:19 PM »
To me it's like having a uni degree but blanking out the uni name on certificate. IMHO lacks credibility to not disclose tester. Don't need methods or ins and out just a certificate, passed or failed.


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Exactly the point I was making.
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Offline Bird

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #94 on: February 27, 2014, 03:15:58 PM »
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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #95 on: February 27, 2014, 03:21:11 PM »
That so needs the govenor removed. ^^^^^^^     >:D
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Offline DaveR

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #96 on: February 27, 2014, 03:26:56 PM »
In the industry I normally work in, we do a lot of certified testing which is covering various equipment, to various codes of practice or standards etc.
In addition, it is to various requirements such as Insurance Provider, Class (Marine industry), or Regulatory Authorities of Various nations such as Federal Governments.

Because testing of this nature is conducted so much, there are many places around the world to have this done by, sadly, many of these testing firms operate in Nations with no AS equivalent, and there fore, they may test to a standard which is not recognised for that given product.
This does happen, in my position, I need to get from the testing firm copies of their compliance documentation prior to allowing them to test any thing I am responsible for.

So what does this have to do with Couplings?
It is my view that MDC should not black out that information as my first thought is it could be a test certificate from someone who is not accredited for this test to the relevant AS, which, brings a bit of a bad name to a firm that could be avoided in my view.
If I were a customer buying a CT from them, I am entitled to see that document in full and ask why the ID plate, as apposed to the stamped casting method.
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Offline Camping Grant

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Offline rags

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2014, 07:26:02 PM »
B2B,

We are not posting the details and Chester has got it nailed as far as we are concerned.
We are not commenting on this post anymore. We have the ADR approval in place and have done so for years.

Happy Camping ;)
MDC Insider

It is a bit hard to believe that your company have done so for Years when the testing is against a  compliance regulation of June 2009, as highlighted in your certificates [not exactly years ] and you elect to blank out a simple thing like a test date, something that would be unimportant for a competitor. Unless you have been promoting the product as approved for longer than the approval has been in place.
I would also call into question  your reasoning for the blacking out of the testing agent,as the certificate can be requested and must be provided if requested by not only a regulatory body but also a consumer ,in the same way you also must provide a Gas certificate of inspection and also have a compliance plate fitted for the customers .I appreciate that you your company may not want share this information on the forum , but by providing a checker board certificate can only raise the suspicions of forum readers that all may not be up front so if you aren't prepared to share things like testing agent or dates etc then maybe you are better served not sharing the certificates at all.

Offline scubasteve

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Re: Is your imported off road coupling compliant?
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2014, 07:51:31 PM »
Talk about flog a dead horse. 8) I think this race is well and truly over.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 08:07:07 PM by scubasteve »