Author Topic: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions  (Read 38272 times)

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Offline Mandrake

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #100 on: October 19, 2016, 01:15:39 PM »
I went against much advice and moved from ANZ super to HESTA.. All investments are cash and offer small but steady returns.. I'm very happy now I am retired as this small return doesn't affect our pension payments..Mandrake.

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Offline scblack

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #101 on: October 19, 2016, 02:06:20 PM »
Sooooooo, I started this thread almost 3 years ago and the old super topic has come up again at my place!!

My 'employers super fund' has recently been bought out by a bank and is now a retail fund.

I have been looking at the new fee's and charges as best as I can understand and at the moment they appear to be quite reasonable still. In fact I think they are slightly better than an industry fund I am looking at (australian super) and their life insurance and permanent disability premiums are half the cost of the industry fund.

So I am struggling to find a reason to jump ship. 99% of my work colleagues all jumped over to media super (media super came to our work place and had a big union push towards the labour party at election time as they do) but when comparing the returns, my existing fund has outperformed media super and is on par with australian super, so i am again struggling to find a valid reason to step out of the retail fund and into the industry fund.

Am I missing something here??

All the 'experts' at work are telling me I am mad to stay with the retail fund and I should be going into an industry fund. They have about as much knowledge on the subject as me though, which is pretty close to zero..............so any financial people out there able to point me in the right direction???

I hate doing my own research on things I know very little about, but after spending a lot of time doing my best to look at all the costs and returns I just cant find the major differences with the funds I am comparing. My super would be tiny to most of the rich people on here, but to me it is looking substantial enough to not want to make a bad move at this stage in my life.

I am hesitant to ask and/or pay a real expert as they are generally biased towards a commission paying client in my experience!
I have worked in wealth management for the ultra wealthy, and for many years have run my own SMSF.

No-one has a crystal ball for future returns of either style of fund. No-one.

I would answer your query this way: Do you have any future guidance that will mean you definitely are better off changing from Retail Fund to Industry Fund? Not just the union rep's sales spiel but ACTUAL evidence the return will be better? If not, then stay where you are, as the change of funds will cost you fees - which may erode any returns anyway.

Basically I would say unless you REALLY are convinced to change, stay where you are.
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Offline Beachman

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #102 on: October 19, 2016, 03:19:39 PM »
A couple of years ago I read a very interesting article where they compared two different retirement strategies using historical data for the last 40 years.

1st – Remaining in an ‘average fund’ all your working life
2nd - Moving your Super each year to that year’s top performing fund

Surprisingly the first option came out on top by a considerable amount. The main reason was each time you move funds you have to pay entry and exit fees which not only ate into any potential additional profit, it also ate into the existing account balance.

In regards to funds being owned by a Bank v Retail Fund v Industry Fund and which is better. My gut feel is something like a balanced fund over a 10 year period would give a similar result. Reason is they all have similar guidelines where  they can’t be too aggressive as that can lead to loss and odds are they are all investing in the same thing.

Offline McTavish

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #103 on: October 22, 2016, 12:46:45 AM »
I went against much advice and moved from ANZ super to HESTA.. All investments are cash and offer small but steady returns.. I'm very happy now I am retired as this small return doesn't affect our pension payments..Mandrake.

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Ps Mandrake, the Age Pension calculations are not based on the earnings of the fund or assets you're invested in.   It's based on your overall asset position which includes your super which is now 'deemed' whether you're in Personal or Pension accounts.  Watch this space re the assets test as 1 January 2017 is D Day for many pensioners who will either get a little more if just over the minimum threshold and are on a part pension.   Or if you are close to the new maximum then maybe lower payments and if over the new maximum amount then No Soup For You...    They're saying they will ensure these people keep the health care card though...

The other is your income test.  Whichever gives you the least amount of money - that's the one you're assessed under.

Also - keep in mind that although Cash feels nice and safe - you're actually just treading water or going backwards as inflation eats up your interest.

McT
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Offline gronk

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #104 on: October 22, 2016, 08:08:19 AM »


Also - keep in mind that although Cash feels nice and safe - you're actually just treading water or going backwards as inflation eats up your interest.

McT

Mid way thru the year I swapped my super to cash ( from balanced ) when super was heading down, and I probably avoided some losses, but timing it right is the hard part....?and timing when to swap back was just as hard.....not worth the trouble if you are young, but at 58, I was trying to preserve as much money as I could.
As said, cash ( approx 3% ) is a good option when super is 1% or in the negative, but even a few weeks back up to 6 or 8%, a normal super fund will far outperform cash.
The GFC turned the last 10yrs into pretty average earnings for super, but hopefully the next 10 will be a lot better ?
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Offline DannyG

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #105 on: October 22, 2016, 08:38:24 AM »
Thanks gents.

It is only a $75 exit fee from my current fund so the fee's involved are not an issue.

Ill base my decision on past history returns rather than projected forecasts from sales people. I am leaning towards going to a 'safe' large industry fund, especially one that has a very user friendly online system that allows me to move the money around free of charge.

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Offline Mandrake

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #106 on: October 22, 2016, 09:20:11 AM »
Hesta gives u 2 swaps per year . You can use one of their plans or make up your own .. Mine is currently 20% cash 80% Bonds..return is around 4to5%..after the GFC where my anz lost $20000 I switched to cash with a massive salary sacrifice to try and make up the loss..My super is now an income stream account at roughly 5%.

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Offline gronk

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #107 on: October 22, 2016, 10:46:14 AM »
Hesta gives u 2 swaps per year .

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My super (Mine wealth ) gives me 6 swaps/yr. In retirement, you want good interest rates, but you also want low risk and consistent returns, so I can see where you are coming from !
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Offline McTavish

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #108 on: October 23, 2016, 12:22:40 AM »
Danny G & others...   I'm a big fan of Vanguard Fund managers (they manage portfolios as big as the Australian economy).   

They have some really interesting reading on their website.   The PDF showing the best performing asset classes over time may have you rethinking your picking last years winner as a strategy.
https://static.vgcontent.info/crp/intl/auw/docs/resources/power-of-diversification.pdf

Their home site.
https://www.vanguardinvestments.com.au/retail/jsp/home.jsp

There is some self promotion at the end of this - but this is information all retirees and people thinking of retiring should have some interest in.   It's a pretty good read.
https://static.vgcontent.info/crp/intl/auw/docs/resources/plain-talk-guides/ptg_investingforretirement.pdf?20161020|163125

Know your appetite for risk (percentage of growth assets being Shares & Property verse defensive being Cash & Bonds) and know that there is no such thing as No Risk.   Even cash is risky as you're taking a position that it will still perform better than shares, property & bonds.   

Maybe just me - but I find this very interesting...   
http://www.nikkoam.com.au/files/investment_research/tam_greed_fear_research_paper.pdf

Last point - don't confuse Super as being the "Investment".   It's not - it is the taxation structure that holds the underlying assets.   It's the percentage of assets held in your super account and their performance which determines your outcome.   







« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 09:59:30 PM by McTavish »
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Offline Swannie

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #109 on: October 23, 2016, 06:58:23 AM »
Best to invest your money in Aussie and American muscles cars...returns far outweigh any super fund  8)

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Offline McTavish

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #110 on: October 23, 2016, 07:11:50 PM »
Best to invest your money in Aussie and American muscles cars...returns far outweigh any super fund  8)

Swannie

Hence your 'investment' in the 200 ??!!   Nice one...   Gives amazing return on capital invested - 5 seconds to 100??
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Offline Swannie

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #111 on: October 23, 2016, 07:25:32 PM »
Hence your 'investment' in the 200 ??!!   Nice one...   Gives amazing return on capital invested - 5 seconds to 100??

I'm lucky that my employer picks up the tab for all my 200 costs  😁. My Torana appreciated 300% in 7 years all I did was buy it, back it into the garage  put cover on it.
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Offline gronk

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #112 on: October 23, 2016, 07:47:45 PM »
My Torana appreciated 300% in 7 years all I did was buy it, back it into the garage  put cover on it.

Shame...shame.....and didn't drive it ??  >:(

Have you sold it yet ?
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Offline Swannie

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #113 on: October 23, 2016, 07:55:45 PM »
Shame...shame.....and didn't drive it ??  >:(

Have you sold it yet ?

Yep I did bud. Sold it to a mate who already had an LC,LJ xu1, SLR 500 and needed a hatch to finish his collection. Got my sights on the next 1  now

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Offline gronk

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #114 on: October 23, 2016, 08:15:40 PM »
Yep I did bud. Sold it to a mate who already had an LC,LJ xu1, SLR 500 and needed a hatch to finish his collection. Got my sights on the next 1  now

Swannie

Had a chance in 1982 to buy an A9X 4 door, 25,00K's, immaculate........but I thought it was too dear at $9500 !!  lol
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Offline dogbox

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #115 on: October 23, 2016, 08:35:35 PM »
I am of the opinion that to pay off your family home is a bit of a nice thought but if you put that money into some other income producing investment an used that money to pay the home off you would be better off
example first house cost $27000 mortgage 240 a month(interest rates about 13% if I maintained the payments an used the extra money that I would have been paying if I was paying rent an bought bank shares with an average dividend of 5% franked the house would have been payed off in 25 years and the shares would be enough to contribute a nice side income  just think of a mortgage of $ 27000 at todays interest rates 

Offline Jasman

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #116 on: October 26, 2016, 10:39:13 PM »
A couple of points to consider:

Be careful using past performance as an indicator of future performance. Consider this, if a management team is getting good results guess what the competitors do......they poach them, leaving the B team to run the fun.

Consistent out performance of the average is pretty much impossible, 85% of managers failed to outperform the index last year and this is pretty common over the years.

Be careful thinking industry funds are "safe" options, in reality they're like any other fund with the largest component of performance coming down to asset allocation. In recent years some high profile industry funds have been caught not revaluing there assets to hide losses from investors.  One particular funds that is currently amongst the top of the charts lost $500m of investors funds a few years because of some dodgy hedging.

In reality performance largely comes down to the underlying asset allocation of the fund/s and the cost of administrating the account, traditionally industry funds were cheap but that is not always the case these days with the banks etc getting very sharp, especially on the bigger account balances.

Taking advantage of free switches to move to the highest yielding fund doesn't work, history shows that chasing history's hero results in worse performance than picking a strategy and sticking to it. Switching also triggers capital gains tax at a rate of upto 15% which is a significant cost to recoup within the fund.

On a final note, watch bonds if you are trying to be very conservative as bonds can fall in value as interest rates rise. People are often shocked when their bond portfolio falls in value.

My tip is to talk to a financial planner who charges a fee for his/her advice, if they're any good they won't care what fund you use but they will help you build a long term strategy.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2016, 11:02:42 PM by Jasman »

Offline Rocky and Bullwinkle

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #117 on: October 27, 2016, 06:58:26 AM »
I like the balanced approach, Super, I am in a defined benefits scheme, Shares and property they all seem to have ups and downs. I have seen a financial planner from my super scheme and paid for advice.

Read think listen talk to people so you can hopefully make your own informed decision.

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Offline RobM

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #118 on: November 01, 2016, 12:21:14 PM »
I've been talking about it on this thread for the last 3 years.
Well I finally put my hand up and got a redundancy last Thursday.
I think I might have been pushed in the next round of head chopping so I got in first.

Read Townsville Magpie's  blog if you would like to know what's going on in Townsville these days.
It is closer to the truth than what you will read in the daily rag.

http://www.townsvillemagpie.com.au/mayor-mullets-mendacity-laid-bare-millions-of-dollars-flee-townsville-as-national-arts-patrons-walk/

Offline DannyG

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #119 on: November 01, 2016, 12:27:14 PM »
I've been talking about it on this thread for the last 3 years.
Well I finally put my hand up and got a redundancy last Thursday.



Congratulations, your at a good age for it IMHO I hope the second part of your life is everything you hoped it would be :)
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Offline RobM

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #120 on: November 02, 2016, 06:48:39 AM »
Thanks Danny,
One of the first things we would like to do is head back down your way for a while

Offline Wortho

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Re: Super, Retiring Income and Pensions
« Reply #121 on: November 07, 2016, 09:16:50 AM »
Interesting article in the Australian regarding super and the aged pension. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Find+the+sweet+spot+for+super+.au (Going through google gets past the subscription)

Seems I've been wasting my time salary sacrificing into super all these years to build up a decent amount ???

No doubt the rules will change again though so still would rather be self funded.