Banning Of Camper Trailers in Desert Sand Dune Areas Lower Your Pressures

[macca]

Well said discoteddy, I'm with you all the way.
Good points bodgie makes too

macca

[GeeTee]

That will do me, so now I need a off road trailer towing course under my belt before I'm deemed competent or confident to tow my shiny checker plate clad ( what the hell is wrong with checker plate?) off road camper trailer along the beach or through the sand dunes?? I'm double stuffed because I also now live  in the city, although I may have learnt something in my years living in the Narrandera, Scone, Moree and Nyngan areas, that something may even be common sense?

Perhaps those who have deemed that they are the keepers of the knowledge and believe they have the right to dictate who requires education can let me in on the secret before I hurt myself, my family and destroy the country I love.

I'll go and jump into my cotton wool lined box before I injure my self........stuff I haven't been trained in that either!


Cheers,

Disco teddy.

It's no secret Discoteddy, it's common sense.
If someone has absolutely no experience with towing and has just bought a new camper trailer and are "Gunna do the Simmo mate!!" then as in most aspects of life, a course is a good way to quickly and easily learn the skills required to become competent with aspects of towing such as suitability of equipment, tyre pressures... this lack of competence and the resulting damage is largely what this thread is about.
 

[Pling]

From what I have observed is 13psi cold rechecked at lunch were at 15- 16 psi so If your setting tyres 18psi cold than you are creeping up over 20psi and you "will"  wheel spin in the hot sand. Not saying you couldn't cross with tyres over 20, but If its track degradation that we are talking about then these small numbers make all the difference...Trailer or no trailer!

The Tambo Omeo on this particular trip at a guess prob weighed in at 1.1 -1.2 tonne, running 13psi cold I did not need to take dangerous uncomfortable run ups and did not wheel spin. If I could not get over a dune It wasnt because I was bogged It was because I read the terrain wrong and was in the wrong gear selection between high range or low range.

[Spurio]

Re: Banning trailers in the desert - What a load a waffle, the country is dry, there isn't much moisture holding the topsoils together. We haven't had much rain this year. Sounds like some new fifo government official, 3 months into their 2 year contract trying to make a name for themselves.

I'll let you in a secret, when there are whirlwinds strong enough to lift dirt into the sky, it means the place is pretty dry and the sand/soil particles have not binded well, the next sand storm does more "damage" than any tourists on the desert tracks.

For the record we have had hundred of whirlwinds from mid-last year

As to PSI - What ever rocks your boat. After many years in the desert I can't say adjusting pressures does much for me, my personal view is it became trendy when all the over sized swamp tyres became fashionable and the buyers were justifying their overpriced purchases by adjusting pressures for each terrain they encountered 

[02-SR5]

Spurio,

What PSI do run or recommend for desert driving?

[bodgie]

Re: Banning trailers in the desert - What a load a waffle, the country is dry, there isn't much moisture holding the topsoils together. We haven't had much rain this year. Sounds like some new fifo government official, 3 months into their 2 year contract trying to make a name for themselves.

Not going to touch this one.

I'll let you in a secret, when there are whirlwinds strong enough to lift dirt into the sky, it means the place is pretty dry and the sand/soil particles have not binded well, the next sand storm does more "damage" than any tourists on the desert tracks.

For the record we have had hundred of whirlwinds from mid-last year

A whirlwind will lift topsoil but it will not rut a track or dig a hole in a track like and overinflated tyre on a poorly driven vehicle will.

As to PSI - What ever rocks your boat. After many years in the desert I can't say adjusting pressures does much for me, my personal view is it became trendy when all the over sized swamp tyres became fashionable and the buyers were justifying their overpriced purchases by adjusting pressures for each terrain they encountered 

FWIW, I've driven on sand on Stradbroke, Moreton and Fraser Islands, Stockton Beach, Cape York and the Simpson Desert and surrounds.

My view is you mustn't be very observant.

I have always found lower tyre pressures in all of the sand I've driven in with varied vehicles with varied tyre sizes from 7.50x16 through to 245/65/17s.

The FACT is high pressures will always make life harder in sand.

[SteveandViv]

SteveandViv, where is that 97 percent statistic from? That seems extraordinarily low compared to what can be seen at many 'destinations' these days. If that stat is correct then banning trailers - as is being considered here and elsewhere - will affect only three percent of travellers.

You - and I - may be confident and competent with trailer use but I can't agree that "most" (as you claim) trailer owners can tow competently in arduous terrain. Through my eyes, many are beginners and unfortunately the comfort and pride in a big, shiny, checkerplate-clad camper trailer with knobby tyres and 'full-off-road' stickers gives them a false sense of security about their ability in arduous terrain.

Buying the hardware is not a substitute for training and experience - and in many cases, common sense.

The very small availability - and take-up rate - of off-road towing/trailer courses compared to the number of trailers sold suggests there is an enormous gap in education of trailer owners.

As well as an increase in track degradation, situations such as vehicle boggings where assistance is required, mechanical failure of suspension etc etc, is higher for trailers and trailer combos than for single vehicles.

Combine these elements and it's easy to see why the managers of these lands could consider banning of trailers.

I was speaking with the Manager at Keep Nat Park and he is mates with a ranger of the Simpson. It echos the stats that come out of the owners of the Canning as I speak to them a lot while in the area for work. It maybe a bit more or less but it's not a lot. As for the competency statement, I do mean those on here where is have yet to see a anyone who I would not share that trip with. There will be some that maybe should not do the trip but how would Dave from Mt Dare rescues more cars than campers

[ozbogwam]

Re: Banning trailers in the desert - What a load a waffle, the country is dry, there isn't much moisture holding the topsoils together. We haven't had much rain this year. Sounds like some new fifo government official, 3 months into their 2 year contract trying to make a name for themselves.

I'll let you in a secret, when there are whirlwinds strong enough to lift dirt into the sky, it means the place is pretty dry and the sand/soil particles have not binded well, the next sand storm does more "damage" than any tourists on the desert tracks.

For the record we have had hundred of whirlwinds from mid-last year

As to PSI - What ever rocks your boat. After many years in the desert I can't say adjusting pressures does much for me, my personal view is it became trendy when all the over sized swamp tyres became fashionable and the buyers were justifying their overpriced purchases by adjusting pressures for each terrain they encountered 

Disagree entirely about tyre pressures, if you haven't found much difference then I would say you either don't change them enough or don't do enough 4wding in a variety of terrains.

[doc evil]

I'm not going to enter the debate as we all have different views on tyre pressures like we all have different views on our respective tugs, trailers, fridges, tyre brands etc.
What I would like to point out tho, is the pic a few posts above........
How susceptible is that sidewall to staking at that low pressure especially in burnt mulga country or rocky country.
My view, fine for the beach, not the desert.
Food for thought.


What you do is purely your choice as we all learn by education or experience.

As for CTs being banned. Doesn't affect me so therefore I don't really care as long as the individual is doing the right thing (and staying on the bitumen )  only joking, only joking...........

[bodgie]

I'm not going to enter the debate as we all have different views on tyre pressures like we all have different views on our respective tugs, trailers, fridges, tyre brands etc.

Haven't you already done that by replying to this thread?

What I would like to point out tho, is the pic a few posts above........
How susceptible is that sidewall to staking at that low pressure especially in burnt mulga country or rocky country.
My view, fine for the beach, not the desert.
Food for thought.

My food for thought.

In my experience a sidewall is vulnerable regardless of the pressure in the tyre. However saying that I've personally had less problems with staking of sidewalls or damage from gibbers etc with lower pressures.

If we use a balloon analogy it is harder to burst an under inflated balloon than it is a fully inflated balloon. Try it of you don't believe me.

All of the tyres I've had punctures in have been at highway or close to highway pressure. The same tyres at reduced pressures have never had a problem, and this has usually been in much tougher gibber country. Even Coopers, yes Coopers with high pressures get punctures, FACT!!!

If you are getting regular punctures at highway pressures on dirt road and you are prepared to listen to heard earned experience it costs nothing but some time to drop your pressures 15-20%.

Be brave and give it a a go, in my experience you WILL be rewarded with less punctures.

If you don't believe me on how much of a difference tyre pressures make, go for a drive to Stockton Beach and see how far you get with 30PSI in your tyres. If you don't want to make it past the entrance track leave your tyres at their highway pressures.

Jason

[Spurio]

Spurio,

What PSI do run or recommend for desert driving?

Sorry mate don't carry a pressure gauge with me. I look/kick the tyre.

For sealed roads I have the length of approximately 3 lugs of tread in contact with the road, for off road driving I have about 5-6 length of tread. But never run a tyre lower than half the height of the lugs on the sidewall. i.e. I think the tyre a few posts previous is a little too low and likely to get a bit of gidgee or other sharp through it.

I check pressures maybe every 3 months if I'm lucky. I drive mostly on high speed dirt roads, tracks and xcountry, all year round. This gets me all over the tourist drives and back again, touchwood, I haven't had a flat for a good 12 months.

[ozbogwam]

So you don't really let tyres down or experience wide varieties if terrain to really know what a huge difference tyre pressures play in increasing off-road performance and decreasing strain in your vehicle and impact on the tracks

[Spurio]

I'm very fortunately that I've spend most of my life in very remote areas in the various terrains our flying spaceship has to offer. OCD on tyre pressure has never been a big issue for me.

My views are tyre pressures are way over rated for the legal and insured 4wdriving capabilities most people do on public roads.

The 4wd accessories industry, has created just another placebo effect on individuals who buy into this marketing hype

[bodgie]

Sorry mate don't carry a pressure gauge with me. I look/kick the tyre.

For sealed roads I have the length of approximately 3 lugs of tread in contact with the road, for off road driving I have about 5-6 length of tread. But never run a tyre lower than half the height of the lugs on the sidewall. i.e. I think the tyre a few posts previous is a little too low and likely to get a bit of gidgee or other sharp through it.

I check pressures maybe every 3 months if I'm lucky. I drive mostly on high speed dirt roads, tracks and xcountry, all year round. This gets me all over the tourist drives and back again, touchwood, I haven't had a flat for a good 12 months.

If you measure the difference in pressure I'd reckon you'd be on, or close to the 15% mark.

[Pling]

What I would like to point out tho, is the pic a few posts above........
How susceptible is that sidewall to staking at that low pressure especially in burnt mulga country or rocky country.

Burnt Mulga country or rocky country yes the side walls are susceptible I would agree......but I thought we were talking sand and towing in the Simpson hence where the pic was taken and what worked for us???

In my opinion the trade off for having excellent grip in sand (low pressures) Is you have to be mindful of what your tyres are running over.