Fines for items in utes- fact or fiction

[seenthelight]

I find this extremely hard to believe. As you state this would be nearly 100% of a severe risk breach for an individual which would mean the insecure load would of had to of come off the vehicle and done damage to person/property and then gone to court for the magistrate to impose a financial penalty.
I have yet to personally see the courts impose a fine close to maximum . And if VicRoads had one awarded that close to the max. I am sure I would of heard about it

The driver crossed Footscray rd with a b double with both trailers curtains opened , no gates and no ropes or tie down on any part of the trailer load,  both trailers full of general freight
Cheers

[GeeTee]

I have been unlucky enough to be the recipient of someone's unsecured load.

In 2001 I was following a mini skip truck at 100kph on the highway. I don't even recall seeing anything in the skip bin. Then suddenly a few lengths of 50mm box tubing came flying out.

It went several directions as it hit the road and I had nowhere to go. One piece went under the rodeo that I was driving and pierced through the floor on the drivers side and then continued through the drivers seat base missing my backside by about 1cm and then through the back of the cab. That was the lucky part. The impact of it stood the rodeo up on two wheels causing it to loose control into the guard rail in a big way.

The skip truck kept driving.

Fine these bastards as much as possible. It could happen to any one of us at any time. If have also copped a plastic outdoor table the fell off a ute going the other way and also almost been cleaned up by two kayaks when the roof rack broke ...


Sent from Behind you...BOO

did you read this Seenthelight?

[cruisindub]

The foreigners seem to be able to do it alright?

[cruisindub]

We could learn from them.......

[cruisindub]

getting better....

[Brij]

The driver crossed Footscray rd with a b double with both trailers curtains opened , no gates and no ropes or tie down on any part of the trailer load,  both trailers full of general freight

So it didn't fall off, so therefore didn't satisfy - "Severe risk breach:
An unsecured load that causes harm to people, or damage to property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals and companies are taken to court"
Could only be "Substantial risk breach:
An unsecured load that poses a danger to people, property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals are fined $454 and the company $2268"
Substantial risk breaches are typically dealt with on the spot fines (in Vic about $500, your $ above are a year or so old I think), although the officer (or the defendant) could elect to have the matter dealt with in court. The officer could also elect to prosecute the company (under chain of responsibilty legislation). Maybe this is what has happened and the company was the recipiant of the $10000 fine, although I think this is still fairly high for a magistrate to hand out. Maybe there was a lot of priors so the magistrate included a "moron" component  .

Heard of a case recently where a company got penalised nearly $10000 for about 30 or 40 significant excess mass offences and that was considered a good result 

I apoligise for pushing the point, just trying to minimise the Chinese whispers (I am sure you  heard exactly what the trucky said, but maybe he used a bit of poetic licence 

Peter H

[laf]

lockyer valley you go 350 a time if you have anything in the back uncovered, do not use 6 x 6 inch mesh as if one can pull any item out through the mesh  you go 350 dollars so go the small 2 inch mesh

cheers 

[Sawed-Off]

I've no idea about fines, but one of the first things I bought for my dual cab when I got it was a cargo net. Where the real scandal is, is that Autobarn want $10 for a bag of 6 little plastic hooks to hold the thing down with! 

[sandman]

Sometimes I don't think some people actually read the words written in the post.

I was looking for evidence of anyone getting a fine for an arguably safe item such as a pair of thongs or as in the news article some empty beers cans.

I did not ever put up an argument for any other type of load.

Put very simply. Is it fact or fiction.


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I know a mate that was fined for a loose pair of gumboots. He took them off after finishing a concrete job, threw them into the back of the ute and got pulled up 5 minutes down the road. I don't know if it was police or TMR inspectors that booked him though.

Out of curiousity why is this such a big deal for you?

[darrenh]

I know a mate that was fined for a loose pair of gumboots. He took them off after finishing a concrete job, threw them into the back of the ute and got pulled up 5 minutes down the road. I don't know if it was police or TMR inspectors that booked him though.

Out of curiousity why is this such a big deal for you?

We have a fleet of utes at work and one of our subcontractors said to one of our guys he got booked for thongs in the back of his ute. My WHS officer asked me if the rules had recently changed for utes. I was unable to answer him and I said I would find out. I had seen the mine requirements out west but had started to see the nets on utes around Brisbane. I googled everything I could not find any rules for QLD, hence the question on myswg. I did find the load restraint guide from 2004 but this did not give penalties.
I still have not found any official legislation on the amount of the fines or demerit points.


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[rags]

I know in NSW it was a direction to members of the highway patrol  to enforce the unsecured load on utes and trailers and the reason it came about was following the death of a young girl on the M5 who was crushed in  her car by a semi trailer following her,when she attempted  to break and attempt to avoid  a ladder that had fallen from a tradesman vehicle. I am aware of this as a family member is a serving member of the HW patrol and enforces this as part of his regular duty,

[Brij]

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf] [url]http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf[/url]

Ref page 31 on.

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf
Some interesting reading.

Keeping in mind I deal pretty well exclusively with heavy vehicles for me to issue an infringement for insecure load I have to prove the load wasn't secured in a manner appropriate to the vehicle and load (ie baling twine to hold on D6 dozer, no matter how much twine you use), or the load had insufficient restraint to meet the standards of the "Load Restraint Guide), or the load could move making the vehicle unstable (ie 5 tonne counter weight in 10 tonne capacity tipper sliding all over the place inside the body), or the load DID come off, or the load DID come off and DID cause damage or harm to persons or property (note DID, not could of).

We have specific written "yes" "no" type flow path to determine the severity of the offence.

I believe NSW have very similar legislation, work instructions as us (Victoria). I would assume Qld is also very similar.

In a nut shell I would have to have evidence that the thongs/gumboots/beer cans could/did come off the vehicle in normal driving (note normal driving also includes evasive manuevres, heavy braking etc ie 0.8g which is where the LRG gets it's 80% forward restraint from, but does not include accident, rollover etc). If they did come off I would have to prove they DID cause harm or damage to person or property. If I can't (or in the magistrates opinion I can't) provide the appropriate evidence there is no offence.

Peter H

[darrenh]

[url]http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf]http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf] [url]http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf[/url]

Ref page 31 on.

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf
Some interesting reading.

Keeping in mind I deal pretty well exclusively with heavy vehicles for me to issue an infringement for insecure load I have to prove the load wasn't secured in a manner appropriate to the vehicle and load (ie baling twine to hold on D6 dozer, no matter how much twine you use), or the load had insufficient restraint to meet the standards of the "Load Restraint Guide), or the load could move making the vehicle unstable (ie 5 tonne counter weight in 10 tonne capacity tipper sliding all over the place inside the body), or the load DID come off, or the load DID come off and DID cause damage or harm to persons or property (note DID, not could of).

We have specific written "yes" "no" type flow path to determine the severity of the offence.

I believe NSW have very similar legislation, work instructions as us (Victoria). I would assume Qld is also very similar.

In a nut shell I would have to have evidence that the thongs/gumboots/beer cans could/did come off the vehicle in normal driving (note normal driving also includes evasive manuevres, heavy braking etc ie 0.8g which is where the LRG gets it's 80% forward restraint from, but does not include accident, rollover etc). If they did come off I would have to prove they DID cause harm or damage to person or property. If I can't (or in the magistrates opinion I can't) provide the appropriate evidence there is no offence.

Peter H

Thank you very much Peter
I will do the reading


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[seenthelight]

GeeTee
did you read this Seenthelight?
Yes, it was not me driving the b double.
I for one do not leave the depot with a unsecurer load.
The way I look at it is I will not put other familys in danger
hoping others will not put my famaly in danger.
But saying that I have found lots of goodies
(tools. rubber straps, ladder,pipe fittings, 18v drill kit)
Cheers

[GeeTee]

No worries, seenthelight,

I sometimes stop to pick up debris from the F3 freeway, lots of buckets, boots, tools, vi-vis vests, blocks of wood, hard hats, Even a ladder one day


 

[Symon]

Sometimes I don't think some people actually read the words written in the post.

I was looking for evidence of anyone getting a fine for an arguably safe item such as a pair of thongs or as in the news article some empty beers cans.

I did not ever put up an argument for any other type of load.

Put very simply. Is it fact or fiction.

Didn't happen to me, but to my brother when I was sitting in the passengers seat - does that count?

He had a pair of boots in the back, copper pulled him up for an RBT and fined him $100 for unsecured load.  When my brother arced up about it, the copper made it $100 per boot, so $200.  My brother shut up after that.

Moral of the story - secure your load, don't put loose stuff in the tray, and secondly don't be a dick to a copper.

Another thing to consider - see all that rubbish along the side of the road?  Not all of that is by people throwing rubbish out the window, a lot of that is rubbish being blown out the back of utes.

[prodigyrf]

A few years ago the lad was travelling in his car on a country road when an oncoming ute crested a hump ahead of him and a large box flew out on the road and he unavoidably hit it with a minor dent to the front fender which needed repairing. Ute owner was quite apologetic and it seemed he was confident the new boxed car panel (a fender I believe) didn't need securing and he'd come some distance with it already with no probs.

I used to ride motorcycles and recalled the day I bent a front rim on a Bonneville 650 and nearly lost it, unable to avoid a 4x4 timber bearer that fell off a truck tray and bowled end over end toward me before it went under my front wheel. The truckie didn't even stop to offer me a smoke and a new pair of jocks at the time.

Don't come crying to me about being fined for being a lazy dickhead.

[knightlux]

We have been told by the rta inspectors that the rule of thumb is if you could turn the truck upside down and anything falls off, thats worthy of a fine. thats trucks but im sure utes wouldnt be far off. they just dont target utes anywhere near as much

[prodigyrf]

thats trucks but im sure utes wouldnt be far off.

Had a factory on the road to the metro tip and what an education that was with the trailer, ute, roof rack crowd plus the flying zuchini brother types just 'dropping off a load'. Before digital cameras and Youtube I'm afraid but the pros knew the RTA inspectors were regular spectators for some of the most amazing dickheads you'd ever see in your life.

[Bird]

We have been told by the rta inspectors that the rule of thumb is if you could turn the truck upside down and anything falls off, thats worthy of a fine

They used to have a field day down at the homebush fruit markets with some of the loads those blokes stacked on. overloads and most was just sittin on there...

[Brutus]

    I had a spare wheel in the tub of my ute, took a quick trip to bunnings to get something had a bloke pull out in front of me,swerved to miss him hit the gutter the spare ended up on the roof and caved it in considerably. Have made sure everything is tied down well since. It is surprising just how easy it is for something to go wrong.What if that spare had gone onto 6 lane road instead of on the roof and collected another car or worse a motorbike in an 80kmh zone chances are the bike rider would not be in good shape.

How fast were you going to have that happen?

Really this is just over the top bureaucratic revenue raising with people getting fined for not securing small items such as thongs, beer cans.......... etc. At some point people need to apply common sense and be responsible for their own actions, or inaction.

And FWIW I would have had that tyre secure so a lesson well learnt there mate

[Garfish]

Please everyone secure it and cover it if possible for small stuff and properly  don't worry about whether The law is an ass or stupid or whatever just do it, 
  one of my friends is no longer with us due to a poorly secured piece of timber that came off a vehicle.   

[MR MAC GU]

How fast were you going to have that happen?

Really this is just over the top bureaucratic revenue raising with people getting fined for not securing small items such as thongs, beer cans.......... etc. At some point people need to apply common sense and be responsible for their own actions, or inaction.

And FWIW I would have had that tyre secure so a lesson well learnt there mate

Can you imagine what might happen if a thong or beer can flew out and hit a motor cyclist or push bike rider in the face or visor?
It would more than likely cause an accident!!!


Sent from Behind you...BOO

[Brutus]

Can you imagine what might happen if a thong or beer can flew out and hit a motor cyclist or push bike rider in the face or visor?
It would more than likely cause an accident!!!


Sent from Behind you...BOO

Oh my!

[CRW]

Oh for god sake you lot, it's the law to restrain your load, the law is the law and trying to put up every excuse under the sun on a forum like this wont change the law, so abide by the law or run the risk of getting fined.  Should be end of story, other wise run for parliament and change the law.


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