Legal advice required RE solar install ...

[Chippy76]

Hey Swaggers

I desperately need some legal advice regarding a 240v solar installation on our house. If anyone has a working knowledge of contracts etc etc, Id really appreciatte your input. I WONT hold you to task on any advice you supply, but my knowledge of all things legal is limited ...

Ok heres the deal.......

On the 2nd of April we apprached a local company with the intention of having solar installed at our house. It seemed like a good deal, and I enquired at the time as to whether our roof pitch (45 degrees - it's an old church) would incur an extra cost. The owner of the company was unsure and called the installer to ask them. They replied "no it wont" and so we signed the contract to supply and install.

After waiting some 2 months the installers rang to say they could come to install. When they arrived (at 2 in the afternoon) they expressed concern at the pitch of the roof. They told us that they would need harnessed to install them(which they didnt have) and would ring us back with a new install date.

Fast forward one month and the owner of the business has rung today top inform us that it will cost an extra $500 for harnesses etc and extra labour.  I told them that I was not in agreeance with this, and that I will not pay, as I enquired at the start as to extra costs. He then rang his installer again, and returned to me to advise me that the contract states-

"the purchase price may be varied by [company name] for any reason including, without limitation, additional transpotation, packing, freight, storage, handling, insurance, government, statutory or regulatory charges that relate to the supply of the goods (if any)"

While I agreed that this is on the contract, I pointed out that this applies to the supply of goods NOT installation. He then told me that it was all in my wording. 

When I then told them that I would take it to fair trading , and legal aid if neccesarry, he told me that they would prefer to terminate the contract. I told them that I was unwilling to do this.

So .......................... Where do I go from here ..... do I have a leg to stand on ?  Are they legally in the wrong? or is this a moral thing ? I am unhappy to pay the extra $500 as it was not mentioned to me when first asked 3 months ago.

Any advice would be appreciatted!!!!

Cheers Chippy

[Jon]

No Sure of contract law in QLD but my thoughts are that if the work was/is always on a roof then the same working at heights regulations should apply regardless of pitch, therefore a change in pricing due to a steep pitch does not hold water as the requirement was always there.
Can the contract and get someone else. Also make a complaint to fair trading.

[baldheadedgit]

Chippy Chippy Chippy...... mate i feel ya pain..

"the purchase price may be varied by [company name] for any reason including, without limitation, additional transpotation, packing, freight, storage, handling, insurance, government, statutory or regulatory charges that relate to the supply of the goods (if any)"

I read in that statement the word "Supply".   this increase relates to install.!   worth a try, but it could all be in the wording.
Even though you did ask about extras before signing,, if it's not in black and white it will be hard..
But....dont give up.!
BHG

[baldheadedgit]

No Sure of contract law in QLD but my thoughts are that if the work was/is always on a roof then the same working at heights regulations should apply regardless of pitch, therefore a change in pricing due to a steep pitch does not hold water as the requirement was always there.
Can the contract and get someone else. Also make a complaint to fair trading.

Very good point by Jon... 

[rockman]

If you have the option of getting out now .. do it .
If thats their attitude now , the job wont be much better

[Maîneÿ . . .]

If you have the option of getting out now .. do it .
If thats their attitude now , the job wont be much better

X 2

better to be safe than sorry

I would hope you had at least 2 quotes to do the job, the seller/installer will ask about the roof as a normal procedure because it has to be large enough to attach the panels - facing the sun and when they do they would see it was a high pitched roof.

( I bet you did mention to them at some time b4 you signed the contract the height of the roof and the fact the home was originally a Church )

The sales rep must ascertain if it is feasible to attach solar panels to the roof, no good him selling you something he knowingly can't install

[Chippy76]

Mainey

NO ONE ever came out to look at the house before the install. This I see as THEIR fault. I hid nothing from my end , in fact I did tell them from the very first meeting that it was a 45 degree church roof. 

I am seriously considering cutting my losses and terminating the contract. Even if I need to go with a different installer and a smaller system at the same price.  :S

Cheers Chippy

[earlybird]

Having done some contract work previously, I would say you are correct, however I would not want them on my roof.  You may find your roof has a few leaks during the next storm.  You could go back to them and ask for a supply only price, but I still wouldn't trust them with that.  Their contract should be very specific about extras such as this.  Always remember, "unless it is in writing it hasn't been said".

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

[Nomad]

I agree with earlybird and previous comments, what are going to be your losses if you terminate, at the suppliers request?

[Chippy76]

They will refund my deposit, but I know I won t be able to purchase a similar system at the same price ( even the same company quotes twice the price for the same system now)

Cheers Chippy

[DeBe]

Bit surprised a profesional Solar instaler doesnt have harneses & the proper safety equipment for roof solar instilations. The ones that did my solar inst did & the roof was only 30deg pitch. Sounds like cheap dodgy instalers. Id be backing out of that deal, as there could be grief.

[Hutch]

Given that it is good price for the system maybe ask them to split the cost, win win for everyone?


Hutch- 2012 Prado 150, some TJM Kit.

[UTE 701]

They will refund my deposit, but I know I won t be able to purchase a similar system at the same price ( even the same company quotes twice the price for the same system now) Cheers Chippy

The company I work for always does a site inspection first , and the installers always carry harnesses as standard equipment .

Do you want me to get you a quote from here ?

But while you're deciding , you need to get the application all sorted , so that you get the best rebate price . ( see other post )

It definitely sounds like the Dodgy Brothers , if they are now doubling the price . Most prices should only go up a couple thousand after June 30 .

[prodigyrf]

You signed this-
"the purchase price may be varied by [company name] for ANY REASON including"....yada, yada
Well that just about covers it although it could easily be argued you never really had a legally binding contract because if the Company wanted to get out of it all they had to do was jack up the price for any reason they chose. They couldn't enforce that in a Court because it would be chucked out as 'harsh and unconscionable' for the obvious, so they're now offering you take it or leave it under the terms YOU signed on to (assuming you put pen to paper). Notice that can include changing their mind about the steepness and difficulty of your roof once the installer has had a decko at it or simply the moon is not in the right aspect.

This is typical of Companies that have office jocks out there flogging supply and install on commission when they're often dumping the tradey in it too cheaply. The tradey is a subby and naturally when he views the job there's no way he's going to do it for the standard screwed down 'job and finish' rate. Then the office jock salesman naturally has to go back to the client with his tail between his legs and be the bearer of bad tidings. Happens a lot when consumers chase the cheapest price and hence low margin with no contingency allowance.

By the way you are interpreting the word  'supply' far too narrowly here as any lawyer will tell you. It also means to deliver up, to complete an undertaking or contractual obligation as seller, amongst simply dropping a package on your doorstep or in your letterbox.

[Bird]

I reckon they stitched you up from the start.. they knew from the moment they saw you, they did it to the last 50 customers of theirs, they'd give it a go on you, most people would say 'go for it'

get the sucker in with a cheap price, then bend him over later with fine print. I would have thought in tihs Shitful sue worthy world, you'd need a harness on any roof over 12inches high.

I'd ask to see some other work they have done, and speak with those people.. Bet you find many have been stitched up like you

theres cheap and theres cheap

[Sixtys Guy]

Get your deposit back, walk away and be thankful that the exercise didn't cost you any $$.

[barneys]

walk chippy do you real want theres guys on your roof   

[Sicilianmama]

If you have the option of getting out now .. do it .
If thats their attitude now , the job wont be much better

Agreed, I wouldnt want them stuffing around on my roof.

[briann532]

I'm a licensed installer in Sydney.
Mate, I can't help you out as much as a I would like to, but I can offer advice.

Here in Bad old Sh1tney town, its common practice. Basically bend over. Your only choice is how much lube......
Good companys (and yes I claim to be one ) give an up front final cost involving all metering etc etc.
What I write on the bottom of a contract is final all you have to pay price.

If they are trying it on, tell them to get far away!
Besides the requirement for a harness is based on height above ground, not pitch.
They should have them on anyway even if its a flat roof. Seems to me they just want more coin.

Can I be so bold as to ask what you were quoted and for what size system?
If you don't want to say, pm me and I can tell you if its good or not.

I can also get some names of decent installers in your area as I have a mate up in sunnyland who is in the large scale industry and knows plenty people.

Getting back to your point.
Tell them to get stuffed and get a fair price from an honest sparky, despite what the myswag leccie section says, there are some good ones available.
Just ask Symon....

PM me if you need more help.

Brian

[prodigyrf]

Of course you could play 'their' game with the boot on the other foot, providing the terms are you don't have to pay the total price up front. ie they usually want a deposit and or progress payment with the balance on the day of installation to the installer. If that's the case and there will be at least $500 to pay on the day then you agree to their terms and pay $500 short once you're completely satisfied the job is done. Then it's up to the Co to whistle for the $500 which you now claim you're making them adhere to their original contract with you (really the salesman's verbal undertaking) It would pay to have a witness to that verbal undertaking but in any case the Co is hardly likely to enact Court proceedings over such a sum. You'd have to be prepared to wear the usual Collection Agency demands with a written response rebuffing it for the reason you outlined and ultimately to stand up in the Small Claims Court and defend your action if they really pushed it to the limit, but my guess is the Court would back you under the terms of their very lop-sided 'contract'. Call their bluff and they'd give it up I'd suggest, but then you could whistle for any warranty on the rebound obviously.

Let's face it, you probably had a fair idea you were never going to get a 'standard' instal with that pitch roof and the salesman probably doesn't even know what a 45 degree pitch looks like. You did because you owned it and the insaller does because he has to climb the Everest. How should it really have worked? Salesman- We have very competitive pricing based on a standard instal. However there is additional charging for steep pitch, asbestos roof, difficult access, etc which is why we have that special 7 day clause you'll notice, whereby you can sign up now and pay a deposit and if our professional installer inspects the site in that time and there is an increased charge you have the right under the terms of the contract to cancel. Is that clear?

[areyonga]

If you go ahead with this installer remember you have bought the harnesses etc so make sure before they start the job that the gear will be remaining with you after they finish as it would be handy for any servicing work later on the panels.

Trevor

[Bird]

Fast forward one month and the thief of the business has rung today top inform us that it will cost an extra $500 for harnesses etc and extra labour. 

Find out what the legal requirements are for harness' and height work in your state - you will probably find out they would have needed them anyway - so theres no extra anything there.... then hit them with "you would ahve needed harnesses anyway, your a ****in thief, gimme my money back and **** off".

[prodigyrf]

If you go ahead with this installer remember you have bought the harnesses etc so make sure before they start the job that the gear will be remaining with you after they finish as it would be handy for any servicing work later on the panels.

Trevor

No Trevor. The subby has had a whizz by after being told the address of the new signup and recognised the kirk will take him all day instead of knocking out the usual 2 a day with his offsider and hence the extra $500 has been relayed back to the office.
Have you any idea what it's like to work on a 45 degree pitch roof? Many churches are steeper than 45 deg too. Has the OP actually checked the pitch or is he guessing? It's not just the harness, it's the time the job will take even with it on and yes OHS requires one anyway but most installers won't bother on common 22.5 or 27.5 deg roof pitches because they're a pain in the butt and slow to work with. London to a brick the OP knew he would be pushing manure up inclines to get a standard price instal on his Everest and he thought he had when the office jock salesman was all enthusiastic for his commission. Nice try but Xmas isn't that far away and you never know maybe the office jock will bung it up for only an extra $250 cash on the side 

[Chippy76]

Prodigy ....


As  a tradesman I am well aware off the dificulty of working on a steep pitch roof. I am also aware of the laws regarding harnessing and scaffolding for working at heights over 2.4m.

I made it VERY clear when I first approached thiscompamny about the pitch of theroof, and they told me there was no extra charge for a roof that steep (yes it is 45 degrees I have measured it ...) I have to admit  i thought that was odd but she  was sure it wouldnt cost more, andIn fact even rang the installer to check. They made NO  attempt to  view the jobsite before installation and the first time they say it was when the rocked up to install at 2oclock on a Friday afternoon.   (I highly doubt they would have stuck around until 7pm Friday to complete the install that day anyway ... )

I IN NO WAY attempted to shaft the company or pull the wool over their eyes, and had he told me from the start there was a $500 extra charge I would gladly have paid for it.

Too bad in any case, their poor management of this situation has lost them the job, and being a small town  it wont take long for the word to get around ....

Chers Chippy

[areyonga]

No Trevor. The subby has had a whizz by after being told the address of the new signup and recognised the kirk will take him all day instead of knocking out the usual 2 a day with his offsider and hence the extra $500 has been relayed back to the office.
Have you any idea what it's like to work on a 45 degree pitch roof? Many churches are steeper than 45 deg too. Has the OP actually checked the pitch or is he guessing? It's not just the harness, it's the time the job will take even with it on and yes OHS requires one anyway but most installers won't bother on common 22.5 or 27.5 deg roof pitches because they're a pain in the butt and slow to work with. London to a brick the OP knew he would be pushing manure up inclines to get a standard price instal on his Everest and he thought he had when the office jock salesman was all enthusiastic for his commission. Nice try but Xmas isn't that far away and you never know maybe the office jock will bung it up for only an extra $250 cash on the side 

Yep, I do know what its like to work on church roofs with high angles, I was a roofer for many years and a solar installer.  I still think the tradies would have their own harnesses and would have done these types of installs before, unless they are flybynighters.