Waiting for AORC Odyssey XR (to tow with Nissan X-Trail ?)

[Oddy]

Only (?) 3 months to wait for a big step up from tent camping to be built for us. Our fast-erect not-so-old tent was always up in a couple of minutes, but by the time pegs were in (hard work at times), a tarp was over it (it always rains) and a stretcher assembled (SWMBO doesn't like air beds or self-inflatables  ), food boxes etc unloaded, cooking set up, it was wearing us two (now 60+) down. But we still wanted to camp rather than live in an aluminium or plastic box, so after a long look at hard floor campers, we chose the AORC Odyssey. The extra money over, say, a Cub, seemed to bring a lot more ruggedness, and even though we will never end up pushing it to its limits, we will definitely be giving it a shake up to get to some places we want to go from our Sunshine Coast Hinterland base. Odysseys do not seem well represented on MySwag - they don't seem to appear in nearly as many posts as some other expensive hard floors - not sure why, as AORC produce about 200 per year of them.

We have had a Nissan X-Trail for 4 years (early T-31 series, CV auto) and it has taken us and the tent across rough roads, mud and sandy tracks (but no beaches) without any problems at all. The car is rated for a 2000kg max tow with 10% on the ball.  This appears to be plenty to tow an Odyssey XR specified with a dry tare of 960kg and a wet drawbar weight of 100kg even allowing for what we will add to it (NOT a fridge! Call us old fashioned, but we will stick with a good esky in the car).  That was why we chose the Odyssey over an Aussie Swag or a KK, and especially over a TVan, as all those had more weight total and on the ball for comparable fit outs.  However, at first the AORC salesman said "duty of care might not let him sell us one to follow an X-Trail" (that was reversed by a second guy) but others have also thought the X-Trail not up to it.  Mutterings on the net suggest that the auto transmission will overheat after some towing on sand (we can avoid beaches) but we have found several (although not many) web references to X-Trails happily towing Odysseys and similar CTs all over the place (OK, not beaches).

Does anyone want to offer encouragement to us to stick with the X-Trail, or perhaps talk us out of it? We were not planning on upgrading the car at this time!

Oddy 

[jwb]

I would think that the hills will take their toll on Xtrail
But, If you're not in any hurry then it may not worry you
I would fit an after market transmission cooler to any
Auto I regularly tow with.  Just my thoughts!
Great bit of gear the AORC :-)
Cheers

[Nomad]

Theres an Odyssey parked down the road from my house at present. Great looking CT. It is a big unit though.

If you have a great camper like that why restrict where you can take it. The guy down from me tows his behind a Paj, and I noticed when we were coming back from the weekend he has lifted the Paj and stuck airbags under the back.

What ever you decide to do have a great time in it.

Cheers Nomad.

[Pipeliner]

I have an Odessey (the Export Signature, which is heavier than the XR) which I tow with a Jeep Cherokee diesel (manual gearbox) and I wouldn't want to tow it with anything much smaller.  Your Xtrail seems to be rated at around 225Nm of torque compared to 400Nm for the Jeep, which I think might make you struggle a bit on long steep hills such as the run up to Toowoomba or going over Cunninghams Gap (if you're not a Queenslander, substitute your local equivalent).

You probably can tow the Odyssey with the Xtrail, but I think you would find life more comfortable if you had a more suitable tow vehicle.

Enjoy your Odyssey - we have loved ours for the 5 years we've had it and have taken it all over Australia.

[Mace]

Agree with all the above.

Also, your fuel consumption will probably go thru the roof.

I previously replied to Jashr (another swagger) who was querying  a Forester towing an Avan, which weighs 1200kg. I checked out this combo with a neighbour down the street, who has the same combo.  He was entirely happy with this setup - but this was for highway use mainly. His fuel consumption rose  to 16 lit/100k.

So, Id suck it and see!  Give the tug a few short trips to see how it goes before setting of on any extended journeys.  You may be able to get away with not replacing it for another 12 months or so, if youre not planning to now, or, you may find its ok for the type of stuff you want to do.

Oh, and welcome to the zoo!

 

[GeeTee]

The X-Trail is a grown-up Pulsar so it might struggle a bit; these little zoop-zoop "4WDs" (like RAV etc) are designed primarily for European city conditions so at least fit a HUGE trans cooler. As Mace said, suck it and see ..... Forget 'towing in sand' as you will destroy it, starting with the rear diff

[Bird]

... but we have found several (although not many) web references to X-Trails happily towing Odysseys and similar CTs all over the place (OK, not beaches).

The term *Happily* depends on the individual and how long they intend keeping the car.
Lease car = 3yrs, who cares what happens to it, costs owner nothing.

Since the first salesman sounds honest, and not just wanting your cash, I'd take his word. The other bloke just sounds like he wanted a sale.

Go and borrow one of their demo model Odd's, and take it for a drive for a weekend, make your own mind up.


But wouldnt you find this out 100% for sure before you ordered it?

[Riguez]

Everything Lost says.  I would be dubious about towing your trailer with an X-trail. While I know them to be a good vehicle (through a number of friends) do you really want to find out the vehicles limitations when your in the middle of nowhere? A friend recently blew the head gasket in his 3 year old, well maintained X-trail while touring the High Country, a week into a month long trip. He wasn't towing but was fully loaded and the hills just killed it. Needless to say it ruined his holiday and cost $3 grand in repairs as the head was damaged as a result. He's now looking at something with more power. I know what I'd be doing too.

[Jenko67]

Does anyone want to offer encouragement to us to stick with the X-Trail, or perhaps talk us out of it? We were not planning on upgrading the car at this time!

Oddy

Hey Oddy, Get rid of the Xtrail as soon as you can. Great car )when not towing) and speaking from personal experience the towing capacity is overrated.. We had a 2008 Ti Auto and towed a coromal F400 family series camper trailer that we had at the time. We certainly didn't overload the camper and it STRUGGLED to tow the thing.... could certainly feel it on the back and was never looking forward to towing.....as soon as the lease ran out sold it and bought a Pajero.... tows our Jayco swan outback like a dream... so happy now.

Well that is my opinion. Would be interested in your towing experiences when you get the camper....

Regards

Scott

[Oddy]

Thanks everyone - all that advice is much appreciated.  There is a towing section on the Australian X-Trail Forum and, not surprisingly, they are in general more supportive of using their favourite off-roader for pulling vans, boats and trailers - like this quote from Dave62 which matches our vehicle and likely tow weight "we've got a 2008 T31 CVT, it tows our 14' Jayco poptop beautifully. I know the van's only about 1350 kg loaded but on the Princes Hwy between Gippsland and Sydney it doesn't seem to have a problem. I've always got it in "manual" mode and never have my foot flat on the go pedal, always try to keep it between 3000 and 3500 revs, seems to get around 15l / 100 km at those revs and still sits on 90 / 95".  So, despite some negative comments even on that forum, at first I thought we would at least give it a go having assumed since purchase that it would be good enough for a CT. At this stage, it hasn't got a tow bar and brake controller, so Lost's excellent suggestion to ask to tow a demo unit requires us to spend $1500 or so first (and face the prospect of later adding the auto trans cooler and even a suspension mod).  But it now looks clearer that while the "Exxy" is (marginally?) capable on a hard black highway standard surface, it is not going to be reliable when the vehicle must work harder anyway, like loose surfaces and steeper hills (at least with 1200kg+ CTs, probably OK at 700kg or less?).

With three months to go before delivery, I have enough time to swap it for something more capable.  As someone said on another forum, dealers are used to trading X-Trails from otherwise reluctant sellers who find that towing is not its strong point. I'll be joining that group.

Cheers
Oddy

[seqfisho]

Wise choice Oddy,

My dad had an Xtrail for a couple of years and it was a fantastic reliable car, but he only ever towed the bow trailer to the tip. I have a Rodeo 4wd D/cab and have had to add transmission cooler and upgraded suspension to make it and me more relaxed when towing, and that's with tow weights at only half the rated 3000kg capacity.

So no matter how excellent a swordsman you are, you don't take a knife to a gunfight

[Jenko67]

Thanks everyone - all that advice is much appreciated.  There is a towing section on the Australian X-Trail Forum and, not surprisingly, they are in general more supportive of using their favourite off-roader for pulling vans, boats and trailers - like this quote from Dave62 which matches our vehicle and likely tow weight "we've got a 2008 T31 CVT, it tows our 14' Jayco poptop beautifully. I know the van's only about 1350 kg loaded but on the Princes Hwy between Gippsland and Sydney it doesn't seem to have a problem. I've always got it in "manual" mode and never have my foot flat on the go pedal, always try to keep it between 3000 and 3500 revs, seems to get around 15l / 100 km at those revs and still sits on 90 / 95".  So, despite some negative comments even on that forum, at first I thought we would at least give it a go having assumed since purchase that it would be good enough for a CT. At this stage, it hasn't got a tow bar and brake controller, so Lost's excellent suggestion to ask to tow a demo unit requires us to spend $1500 or so first (and face the prospect of later adding the auto trans cooler and even a suspension mod).  But it now looks clearer that while the "Exxy" is (marginally?) capable on a hard black highway standard surface, it is not going to be reliable when the vehicle must work harder anyway, like loose surfaces and steeper hills (at least with 1200kg+ CTs, probably OK at 700kg or less?).

With three months to go before delivery, I have enough time to swap it for something more capable.  As someone said on another forum, dealers are used to trading X-Trails from otherwise reluctant sellers who find that towing is not its strong point. I'll be joining that group.

Cheers
Oddy

Hey Oddy, you might have seen some of my comments on the Australian Xtrail forum...... still a member but haven't been on since I sold my Ti...

Regards

Scott

[Bird]

... and have had to add transmission cooler

wise move with *any* auto...

[BradandPeta]

Hey mate , wat every one is saying about your power to pull the ct is rubbish. !! You will get ur x trail and ct up to 100 km/h no worries and do the legal road limit ... No worries at all !
The weight of the ct fits into the xtrails towing limits easily , unfortunately your drawbar will be only inches from the  ground and every driveway you will hit it with your cars mud flaps,or draw bar and tow bar, your headlights will point into the air as you suspension is non existent in the rear, you will struggle for traction in the front wheel drive unless you use 4wd mode for every take off , you will wear the front and rear tyres extremely fast ! This is all nkt mentioning the stresses on your transmission and engine!
I am not overating anything and I am talking from experience we used to pull a 1 ton max ct with our 2008 T31 and it did it well , upgraded to a ford ranger and you had to keep checking to see if the ct was still there , no way would I pull our kk with the xtrail , yet it falls into manufactures towing limits !!!
U have spent alot of money on the AOR do yourself a favor and upgrade your tug you won't be disappointed .

[bobnrob]

We have an '06 Man X-Trail, towing a Cub Oddy. it certainly isn't a power-horse. Most decent hills, I'm in 2nd, a bit slow but comfortable doing it.
As for on sand...I've read where others have done it (not towing) no worries. But then others have over heated their (auto) box, forcing it into limp mode & having to wait till the box has cooled down.
No matter the speil from Nissan, these are NOT a 4x4. The closest description would be a 'selectable all wheel drive'

My fuel consumption when towing the Cub is 'round 11 1/2 - 12 ltr/100k

[Jenko67]

Hey mate , wat every one is saying about your power to pull the ct is rubbish. !! You will get ur x trail and ct up to 100 km/h no worries and do the legal road limit ... No worries at all !

We tend to disagree. What I am saying is not rubbish..... but I suppose we all have our own expectations and the Xtrail is overrated for pulling power..

[BradandPeta]

We tend to disagree. What I am saying is not rubbish..... but I suppose we all have our own expectations and the Xtrail is overrated for pulling power..

Sorry Jenko67 I more mean that the power issue will be the least of the problems as it will still pull the camper up to speed limits on Australia roads its the rest of the car I would worry about in a safety view of things. As with truck limitiations etc, the power of a truck is not realted to the weight that it can pull, its the running gear and suspension that is designed or not designed to handle a load.
For example I drive a 500hp truck pulling 50 to 60 tonne but I know of people with 380 to 420 hp trucks that pull in excess of 100 tonne Road trains and do it quiet well because the trucks are pretty much the same except for the engine.

[timneva]

G'day Oddy and interesting post by the way.
I tend to agree with a number of posts in that the Xtrail will likely pull the CT ok, but it's all the other running gear on it you need to think about. All very well to say your unloaded ball weight is within specs etc, but once you whack 60+ kilos in the water tank, bedding, cooking gear, clothes, food, camp gear etc etc etc, you're very quickly putting extra strain on your tugs suspension, engine, transmission and not to mention tyre wear, all of which will impact its on road performance whilst towing.
I'd tend to lean towards another tug, but all depends where you think you'll be taking it in the end. It's a very capable ct.
Good luck with your decision.
  

[Pipeliner]

We have an '06 Man X-Trail, towing a Cub

Which Cub?  Whilst a Supamatic Drover is up near the weight of an Odyssey, a Kamparoo weighs under 400kg - a huge difference.

Whatever vehicle you swap the X-Trail for, if it's an auto give a lot of thought to getting an extra transmission cooler - a friend of mine has a diesel Prado to tow a camper and he found the transmission overheating in that, and I know many Jeep drivers who have fitted extra coolers for towing.

Let's face it, you have spent a good amount of money buying one of the most off-road capable campers on the market - seems a shame to limit where you can take it by not having an adequate tow vehicle.  For towing I would always recommend a diesel because of the better torque curve - have you considered getting a dual or king cab ute?

[bobnrob]

We have an '06 Man X-Trail, towing a Cub

Which Cub?  Whilst a Supamatic Drover is up near the weight of an Odyssey, a Kamparoo weighs under 400kg - a huge difference.

'04 Supamatic Regal with the Continental pack, rated 850kg - see sig pic

[Oddy]

Decision made!  We are getting a tug more suited to the capabilities of the Odyssey.

Pipeliner - we certainly did consider a double cab ute and looked at several of them.  But in the end we paid a bit more for more road comfort and put money down on a GLX Pajero diesel with 1700km on it and first reg 2 months ago (obviously a demo, but -if you can believe the car shark- only used by the bosses wife around town and never for buyer try outs).  On the web, they are $64094 and we added $2100 of stuff (including tow bar, nudge bar) but are paying $38500 + the 2008 XTrail ST (69000 km and needing minor scratch fixees and new windscreen). That means the XTrail trade and the demo and general discount total to $27700. Take off the $2000-$3000 that even the world's worst negotiator should get off the RRP anyway, and I think, I hope, that it was a reasonable deal. I have until Mon 5PM to cancel the deal under the cooling off law (demo vehicle counts as 2nd hand) if I decide otherwise. Any opinions welcome!

Now, we have the double hard job of waiting for both the Odyssey AND the Pajero, but at least the Paj will be with us in a week or so.

Cheers
Oddy

[Pipeliner]

Get them to fit the electric brake controller whilst they are doing the other pre- delivery work, unless you have a tame auto electrician who can do that for you.  Or is that already part of the work being done?

[Riguez]

I think you've made the right decision Oddy. You'll enjoy the experience all the more and the Paj will take you places the x-trail couldn't. Hope it all works out for you.

[blackie66]

now u have me thinking i have t30 xtrail 5 speed man ti , it towed my on road ct with no worries , i am picking up my new off road ct in 6 weeks time tare wieght at 800kg.

[Oddy]

Get them to fit the electric brake controller whilst they are doing the other pre- delivery work, unless you have a tame auto electrician who can do that for you.  Or is that already part of the work being done?

Good idea - it will save the hassle of taking it to the tame, but distant, auto elect, but it will depend on the price quoted!
Thanks.