Author Topic: Very tragic collision  (Read 4443 times)

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Offline krisandkev

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Very tragic collision
« on: April 18, 2012, 08:00:37 AM »

It is any driver's worst nightmare.
You are safely sitting in your car, stopped at a traffic light, when a second vehicle loses control at speed behind you and crashes into the back of your vehicle.
This happened last week at Hervey Bay, Queensland. The lady in the car was killed instantly. She was just waiting at a set of traffic lights, completely innocent of what was about to happen. The driver of the other vehicle survived.  It is believed she had a medical condition and lost control of her vehicle.
Just reinforces the fact that life is so fragile. You never know what can affect your plans. Just get out there and enjoy. STOP PUTTING IT OFF!  >:(
Kevin
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Offline WilSurf

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2012, 10:05:59 AM »
What to say....
Nothing.
Thanks for the reminder.
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Offline singo-26

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2012, 10:24:06 AM »
A not so gentle reminder on the fragility of life.  :'( :'(

I've dealt with similar as a volunteer, it's not only the family that gets affected.
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Offline Patr80l

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2012, 09:44:52 PM »
Another lesson here is that if you know someone who shouldn't be driving because of illness or disability, speak up.
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Offline macca

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 10:46:04 PM »
Happened to my nephew this morning, taking his 2yo son over to Grandmas comes round a bend at less than 60kph, sun straight in his eyes, couldnt see a thing, lady in front of him stationary turning right he didnt/ couldnt see her, runs into the back of her at a speed not fast enough to pop his airbags but pushes her into the oncoming traffic. His son is OK, he broke a wrist and has some bruising but the lady is in a pretty bad way. He is totaly devestated that he has caused so much grief with such a small rear end accident, to an innocent person going about her business
We have heard she is going to be OK so thats a major relief

Offline dazzawhipple

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Very tragic collision
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2012, 10:49:15 PM »
Having had this done to me it's not nice but that's why I don't have the wheels turned until it clear to move
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Offline Patr80l

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 10:59:42 PM »
Having had this done to me it's not nice but that's why I don't have the wheels turned until it clear to move
x2. It's one of the things I remember from my driving lessons all those years ago.   If you get rear-ended you only shunt forward.
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Offline Nomad

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 11:27:43 PM »
Thats really sad.

I remember to no turning the wheels at an intersection from my basic learner lessons years ago. I was a bit of a mad driver when I was  younger, wouldn't say I was a hoon but not far from it. My old man made me take defensive driving lessons and that turned into advanced driving lessons and then racing with a mate in an old gemini. Its a shame that all of that kind of stuff is now too expensive for most people to even think about, because its a great way to learn how to deal with actual road scenarios

Its sad to think about how many people get injured or killed on the road because of a lack of skills. All credit to the new learner scheme but maybe the learners should be made to do a course with some pros to really get some decent abilty...........................

Offline corynmelnkids

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2012, 06:40:35 AM »
I agree with you Nomad should be mandatory plus i know this is a bit off subject but when i was learning and on my P plates i had a KE55 Corolla and all my mates had cars with the same amount of power. What are all the P platers driving now advanced driver training should be mandatory before you get your P plates.
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Offline cardinal28

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 08:30:24 AM »
A little bit off subject I guess, but speaking about P plate drivers, has anybody noticed since P platers were banned from V8's and high performance turbo's etc (here in QLD) that there are a lot more of them now driving 4 wheel drives?. Some with lift kits, big muddies etc. Also raises the question - should these kids take defensive/driver training to use these modified (or not) and heavy vehicles?.
Personally I feel all learner drivers should do some sort of driver training as part of their needs to get a licence, no matter what they drive.
Just my thoughts. Still does not stop the tragedy that started this thread though. Very unfortunate.

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Offline Chippy76

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2012, 09:48:41 AM »
Cardinal

I too believe in the value of a good defensive driving course. My concern is that some "kids" may think that this now gives them a licence to hoon, as they "know it all".

 I remember sending my ex wife on a defensive driving course, and she refused to do half of the exercises. Her theory was that she will never be in a situation like that. I should add that to this day she is one of the scariest drivers I have ever driven with. lol

I think there need s to be a difference in training between a 4wd and a car, as they handle VERY differently in the same circumstances. I also think that part of the vehicle testing should be driving at night, driving in inclement weather (rain fog etc) and towing a trailer (including securing loads).

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Offline dazzler

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2012, 03:56:40 PM »
Sadly 'defensive driving courses', as they are done presently, wont do zip because its not manipulation of the vehicle its attitude, observation and anticipation. 

The last two can only be taught in car on a public street by someone who knows what they are talking about, not a race driver teaching party tricks. 

Attitude they either have it or they dont and can only be changed by drastic measures that show the outcomes of their actions.
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Offline Strider

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2012, 06:10:09 PM »
Having had this done to me it's not nice but that's why I don't have the wheels turned until it clear to move

+1

Offline Robertsons

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2012, 10:57:48 PM »
So many times I see learner drivers doing silly things, I wander about the experience of the person teaching them. Anybody teaching these kids should also do a test first. Most employment using machinery these days require safety courses. Why is teaching some one to drive different? Just to go right off topic I believe driving a 4x4 and towing anything should require a separate licence.
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Offline Patr80l

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2012, 09:32:47 AM »
Sadly 'defensive driving courses', as they are done presently, wont do zip because its not manipulation of the vehicle its attitude, observation and anticipation. 

The last two can only be taught in car on a public street by someone who knows what they are talking about, not a race driver teaching party tricks. 

Attitude they either have it or they dont and can only be changed by drastic measures that show the outcomes of their actions.

Dazzler, I did a defensive driving course years ago (it was a freebe when I bought a new car) and more recently had chance to sit in on a couple of sessions with a different provider.   They are about attitude, observation and anticipation.   It's not about party tricks but you do need to know a little theory about how a vehicle behaves.   e.g. if all four wheels have locked up you will travel in a straight line.  You can't steer.   

There is a difference between experience and skills.   You can't teach the former but you can practice the latter on a closed road or racetrack. 
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Offline dazzler

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2012, 12:11:12 PM »
Dazzler, I did a defensive driving course years ago (it was a freebe when I bought a new car) and more recently had chance to sit in on a couple of sessions with a different provider.   They are about attitude, observation and anticipation.   It's not about party tricks but you do need to know a little theory about how a vehicle behaves.   e.g. if all four wheels have locked up you will travel in a straight line.  You can't steer.   

There is a difference between experience and skills.   You can't teach the former but you can practice the latter on a closed road or racetrack.

Sorry, should have said the majority not all.  My bad.

Actually I took the easy option. 

The truth is that if the training is not done on a public street for a lot of hours then its BS.  If theres a cone in sight or an instructor with a whistle its nothing more than party tricks that make people think they have learnt things that make them a better driver.  I went on about this once before but will try and make it brief.

The cops are a good example of driver training.  Whether you like them or hate them they come from a pretty good representative pool of society.  Some have a real interest in driving and driving well, some are so so and some just dont care.

From 95 to 01 I was a driver trainer with the cops and ran it from 98 to 01.  We ran every course from basic car to 4wd to heavy truck.  Did the police bikes and pursuit cars and general duties, surveillence drivers and counter terrorist drivers.

The 4wd ones were really successful and the skills learnt stayed with the drivers.

Our basic course was 3days. About 50/50 theory skills.  Braking, cone work, skidding etc.

The basic plus course was another 2 days on road/track.

After that was the general policing course which was the basic plus with another week covering higher speeds/urgent duty driving and police chases. 

The surveillence course was for those doing surveillence work which is a similar course to the general course but focusing on using unmarked cars.  The big focus, and what the students loved was the skidding.  Rear wheel and front wheel.  Understeer and oversteer on the skid pan or using the trolley vehicles where you could dial in what the car did, oversteer or underteer.

At the end of the course they had to meet the competencies of the course to pass.  Everyone thought it was the ducks guts.  But, in about 98 we introduced retesting every second year or immediately after an accident.  The failure rate was almost 100%. 

If you use skidding as an example whether the car understeered or oversteered they braked.  Every time.  You would need to go back to basics and reteach it all again.  Now as you know if you brake through a corner that you have entered too fast and you brake then you will induce a rear wheel skid and off you go into the trees.  If you go too fast into the corner then the only option is to straighten the wheels, brake and then turn into the corner again.
What did the drivers do?  Jump on the brakes and wind the wheel away as hard as they could into the corner making it worse.  And they did this time and time again.

They did however maintain some of the observation anticipation skills that were taught but in some cases even these needed to be retaught.  Simple things like 'why arent you covering the brake as we approach that intersection' and the like.  Peripheral vision is almost non existent.

Most of the trainers were stunned at the outcome.  Keep in mind these are people who had had at least 10 days of training and many are out there responding at high speed.  If you compare this with the testing outcomes of the highly advanced drivers and its chalk and cheese.

It has recently changed but back then to become a pursuit driver (or highway patrol) you first needed to pass the pursuit bike course which was 5 weeks and had a 60 - 70% fail rate.  After two years on the bikes, without accident, they could do the car course.  This was another 3 weeks.  It was only once they reached this level that everything learnt was still there.  We even had drivers come back after 15yrs with CIB or the like and they still retained what was taught.

I think it actually comes down to  the theory about how many times you need to do something over and over to make it instinctive.  This cant be achieved in 1 day, a weekend or even 10 days in the majority of people.  The important thing imo is observation and anticipation which can only be achieved by hours and hours of one on one on the road.

My $1.58c anyway.

 :cheers:
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 12:59:01 PM by dazzler »
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Offline Patr80l

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Re: Very tragic collision
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2012, 01:48:59 PM »
My $1.58c anyway.
 :cheers:
Phew, lucky I didn't call you ignorant and tell you to go and do a course!   My bad.     ;D    Dazzler, your $1.58 worth is quite an insightful opinion.   
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