Author Topic: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!  (Read 16882 times)

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Offline D4D

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4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« on: September 13, 2011, 06:13:10 PM »
http://www.4wdaction.com.au/articles/custom-4wds/46551-4wding-australia-under-threat-once-again

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Offline Nomad

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2011, 06:55:16 PM »
Well Anna wont be far behind in the nanny state. Happy to sign a petition / send letter or email if you can get the details up.

Offline Prado BB

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2011, 07:23:09 PM »
Don't shoot me, but I'm in two minds regarding this legislation.  I have been 4wding for many years and have only ever had a maximum 32" tyres on a Patrol.  Over time I found that I was becoming very limited in where i could go off road, due to larger tyre tracks making it difficult for me to traverse.  Since selling my latest Patrol, I simply don't take the Prado on some of the tracks I used to use as I'm sure I would cause too much damage to the car.  My point is where does it end?  33"tyres these days seem too small and 35"are fast being fitted to most large 4wds.  This can only mean that when the tracks start getting chopped up and rutted, most 4wds on say 31"won't get through without assistance.
I believe that a 2" lift and 31"tyres should be legislated so normalish vehicles can still enjoy some of the more popular tracks as well.
Anyway, my thoughts only as I have stopped using some of my more favourite tracks simply because I now need a bigger lift etc.
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Offline shanegtr

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2011, 07:24:57 PM »
As far as I understand it, WA (and QLD too from what I've read on the various forums) already go by a similar version of whats being proposed in NSW - feel free to correct me if Im wrong. From what I can see 4wding hasnt ended here - its this sort of scare mongering marketing that stopped me buying 4wd action the last time they pulled of this sort of thing

Just my 2c ???

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2011, 08:00:39 PM »
Don't shoot me, but I'm in two minds regarding this legislation.  I have been 4wding for many years and have only ever had a maximum 32" tyres on a Patrol.  Over time I found that I was becoming very limited in where i could go off road, due to larger tyre tracks making it difficult for me to traverse.  Since selling my latest Patrol, I simply don't take the Prado on some of the tracks I used to use as I'm sure I would cause too much damage to the car.  My point is where does it end?  33"tyres these days seem too small and 35"are fast being fitted to most large 4wds.  This can only mean that when the tracks start getting chopped up and rutted, most 4wds on say 31"won't get through without assistance.
I believe that a 2" lift and 31"tyres should be legislated so normalish vehicles can still enjoy some of the more popular tracks as well.
Anyway, my thoughts only as I have stopped using some of my more favourite tracks simply because I now need a bigger lift etc.

x2.  I agree with this and having lived in the outback and volunteered with the emergency services, there was oo many times we were called to vehicle roll-overs which were large 4wds with big tyres and rediculous lifts.

a 2" lift and 31's should get you to so much of this country, if you drive carefully and pick your lines.  It is unfortunate these days that too much media importance, by magazines, is placed on big lifts and your rights.  Perhaps some attention should be paid to the rights of ALL Aussies to travel this great country, without unsafe modifications to vehicles.

My 2c worth.

 :cheers: Cracka

Offline barnray

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2011, 08:08:12 PM »
I agree , when you see a Subaru on the way back from the Cape in corro's overtaking  you its time to go home. There is a limit and it is time for it to happen there are too many people getting killed by being a HOON and others, 5 on the Cape in 20 days and 13 over the season at the end of last month. Time to have a big wake up and tow your pride and joy to Tuff Truck. Barnray

Offline DANBRI

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2011, 08:11:04 PM »
I'm in two minds about it, part of me agrees with the "no need for big wheels" as I am quite happy with my penis length and moderate sized family wagon. With cross axle diff locks and an eye for lines and a vehicle that has steel bars all around there's not much that will stop this kind of setup. However, the other side of me is open minded enough to appreciate that people can do whatever they like, if they want big tyres and lifts - enjoy!

You can't please everyone, but I don't think we should restrict everyone.

Offline barnray

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2011, 08:19:08 PM »
There has to be a logical limit, We have too many problems on the road now. I have had hoons overtake me on the crest of a hill 2 at a time when I was at 100k/h over doubles, it is time we had a good think about it not cry because someone has already decided to do it. R

Offline singo-26

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2011, 08:28:43 PM »
x2.  I agree with this and having lived in the outback and volunteered with the emergency services, there was oo many times we were called to vehicle roll-overs which were large 4wds with big tyres and rediculous lifts.

a 2" lift and 31's should get you to so much of this country, if you drive carefully and pick your lines.  It is unfortunate these days that too much media importance, by magazines, is placed on big lifts and your rights.  Perhaps some attention should be paid to the rights of ALL Aussies to travel this great country, without unsafe modifications to vehicles.

My 2c worth.

 :cheers: Cracka

Just because a vehicle is lifted does not make it unsafe. When i purchased my Landcruiser it had a tough dog 6 inch lift and 35 inch tyres. It was not unsafe or difficult to drive, you just had to bear in ind that you were driving a vehicle with a high center of gravity. Having said that I then lowered it to 2 inches of lift and fitted 33 inch tyres to basically comply with the law without engineering.

My opinion is that this will probably get stopped again with some politician proclaiming how they have listened to the people and acted to help us.
I'm in no way against people having big lifts and tyres, But these mods need to be a safe package. Having worked on the gate of tuff truck for the last 5 years I've seen some trucks drive in that would have to be unsafe and should not be on the road.
At the end of the day it's not big tyres that destroy tracks, It's idiot drivers who need to spin big tyres to get to where they want to go.

Just my 2c.
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Offline Gunna Do

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2011, 08:32:59 PM »
Lets not speculate on the causes of these vehicle accidents, or infer that vehicles with larger tyres, and above average lifts, are always driven by the hoon element of the public.

Lets stick to the facts.  It was mentioned in an earlier post about scare mongering by the media, perhaps this is scare mongering from the opposite perspective.


Offline Laith

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2011, 09:12:58 PM »
Well said GD.

I think you would find that vehicle accidents are caused by many different factors and I doubt that some lift, bigger tyres or a modified diesel engine would rate higher than say driver error.

If these new laws are about saving lives why not spend the time and money on changing the major causing factors in vehicle fatalities.

Idiots are idiots and would do dumb things in whatever vehicle they have available to them.

It's totally cool for a 50 year old guy who has spent his life driving a Toyota Camry to buy a run of the mill SS Commodore or Falcon putting out a factory standard 270kw. Is that not more concerning than 35" tires on a Patrol or Cruiser?


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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2011, 10:38:19 PM »
Quote from: Gunna Do
It was mentioned in an earlier post about scare mongering by the media
If they keep throwing Shit, it will eventually stick.

Where will the limiting of modifications end...?  If someone does it all correctly, and engineers it, why shouldnt they be allowed to run 33/35/37's?? Why do we have to screw up someoene elses fun all the time? Aussie, land of the fun police.

On the flipside of the "stick with 31's" arguement, you can go further and with less damage on a track with more clearance, then your tyres barely gripping - larger foot print blah blah.. Theres + and - for it all.


Lets ban 4wds all together. People used to travel every track in Australia in 2wd cars decades ago. If they did it back then, why cant you do it now? Its a stupid arguement like "all stick with small tyres'... adding to that Patrols come with 33's standard in cheese cutters.


Anyway, arent they supposed to all be working on NATIONAL RULES.. NCOP = National Code of Practice - the large white knight they have been promising for ...ever ... or is that back where it was 20 years ago?


You'd all cry on Sig's old 80 series, engineered and legal on 44's.
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« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 10:57:10 PM by Lost »
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Offline Bird

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2011, 10:45:47 PM »
Quote from: Laith
It's totally cool for a 50 year old guy who has spent his life driving a Toyota Camry to buy a run of the mill SS Commodore or Falcon putting out a factory standard 270kw. Is that not more concerning than 35" tires on a Patrol or Cruiser?
In a similar vein, I think the bigger concern is kids buying 300kw Skylines as their first car... a whopping 2-3yrs experience and they are Aust Rally, Aust Roadrace, V8 Supertaxi champs instantly.. all of them..

But its all being seen to be doing *something* in the politicians eyes..
Mr Public hears from them every once in a while, Mr Public will think they are doing wonders and not ask questions



edit: its not only raising cars thats under threat, but people who lower them are also gettin bashed, hotrods, sports cars, show cars everything... its all piss and wind laws.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 10:49:31 PM by Lost »
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Offline SteveandViv

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2011, 11:39:41 PM »
There has to be a logical limit, We have too many problems on the road now. I have had hoons overtake me on the crest of a hill 2 at a time when I was at 100k/h over doubles, it is time we had a good think about it not cry because someone has already decided to do it. R

And what. Did all the hoons have 35's and 6 inch lifts... It did matter what they had on our Cape trip. Standard Pajeros or Patrols with lifts, they would go past you no matter as they felt they could. What difference do you think this law will make top that...ZIP
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Offline Squalo

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 12:59:23 AM »
Rather than jump on 4WD Action's bandwagon (which is all about selling magazines), write to your local MP with a cohesive and rational argument for why you have a lift kit and larger tyres. Explain why they are beneficial, and point out how your tourist dollars help the towns you visit. That's the sort of thing that will quell the misinformation that exists about 4wding. If a MP gets up in Parliament and explains the reality rather than the sensationalisation, we are home and hosed (wow, does that old saying - originally for horses - apply to us or what?).

Personally I don't see the need for more than 2" lift and 33" tyres unless you are building a play truck for the offroading in your local area, but like Gunna Do I'm perfectly ok about people choosing to go bigger, and that choice should be available.

The other worthy effort you could make is to join a 4WD club, most are fairly active politically and as always with pollies it's weight of numbers (translated: votes) that gets their interest.
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Offline darren

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2011, 06:38:24 AM »
all you lot that say u agree, u say there should be a limit, but you want the limit to be 33's or 31' because thats what you have. So you want rules but you want them to suit you. Well all larger 4wds have a higher c of g so in certain situations they must be more unstable than a suby. So what if they say we will only be allowed to drive subaru's? Will you all be so richous.
 And on the damage. Go somwhere like the cape. The damage isnt caused by well equiped cars. Its caused by once in a lifetime f*wits in their Shitbox overloaded std cars with their chainsaws clearing new tracks, cutting down trees because they saw it on a Malcom Douglass episode, and their towbars dragging on dropoffs scalloping out the trail.
 Every one wants to bag modified cars., even people here. No wonder they use it to sell newspapers and magazines
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 06:44:07 AM by darren »
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Offline oldblade

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 06:48:40 AM »
X2 what Darren said


But if we are going to put in limits I think that all 4x4s should be banned they kill people we should all drive hybrid mini micras

I can't believe what I am reading wake up to yourselfs if rules like this come in where does it stop

Next will be no 4x4s in the city
 Grrrrrrrrrrr


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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 07:08:15 AM »
i bet all those hoons that gave u all grief were wearing hoodies too. We have become quite the angry mob, havent we...
 I wonder if we can find some Jews...
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Offline TOY80ST

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2011, 07:19:50 AM »
I am not sure about this one. I clicked on the link to the VSI 50 buletin posted on 4WD action and it does not come from the RTA website and it just looks like a scanned document.

http://enews.emgroup.com.au/4wd/2011/vsi50/VSI-50.pdf
« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 07:24:58 AM by TOY80ST »
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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2011, 07:22:02 AM »
Oh I also did a search on the RTA website and all it said was it is getting reviewed.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/regonewsandinfo/raise_lower_vehicles.html
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Offline Redback

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2011, 09:54:30 AM »
As far as I can tell, the new rules are, you can go 3" max in raising your 4WD, 2" max in suspension lift and 1" over size on tyres, to a max of 33" in tyre size.

There's not many 4WDs out there with 32s as standard, the Defender is one, 78series Cruiser? G-Wagon, most come with 31s Cruiser/Patrol, might be a problem for Hilux and Disco 1 and 2 owners though, having 29s as standard.

Personnally I don't see a problem with this, especially if your setting up a tourer, but that's just my opinion.

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« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 09:56:04 AM by Redback »
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Offline Matto

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2011, 09:57:27 AM »
I'm in two minds about it, part of me agrees with the "no need for big wheels" as I am quite happy with my penis length and moderate sized family wagon. With cross axle diff locks and an eye for lines and a vehicle that has steel bars all around there's not much that will stop this kind of setup. However, the other side of me is open minded enough to appreciate that people can do whatever they like, if they want big tyres and lifts - enjoy!

You can't please everyone, but I don't think we should restrict everyone.
+1.

My take on it is:
Let's have a proper, nation-wide legislation for what you can do to your own car, as an umbrella/catch-all rule. IE, 50mm suspension lift, and +50mm tyre size increase. You can do that, and not need to get certified.

HOWEVER, this needs to be coupled with a proper engineering scheme for people who fall outside of these rules. IE, if you want to run 35" tyres, that's fine, but you'll need to get engineered, inspected and certified. There's no reason why a car with 35" tyres can't be perfectly safe if it's been built right, brake upgrades, gearing, etc. By having a certification scheme you allow people the freedom of choice, but you allow them to do it safely within a framework that ensures they're not endangering the general public.

At the moment in QLD we have the first (just the lift bit, +15mm on tyre size increase), but not the second. There is NO provision for making a car with bigger tyres legal. So has it stopped people fitting big tyres? Of course not! All it's done is make those people into criminals, and void their insurance.

Rather than restrict people and tell them what they should or shouldn't do, we should be going back to the intention behind all of this - which is to ensure that vehicles on the road behave in a safe and predictable manner so that everyone can share the road. HOW we achieve that, well, there's a lot of ways to get there...

Thanks!
Matto :)
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Offline WilSurf

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2011, 09:59:39 AM »
I don't see it as a problem.
Modified cars?
Agree, but within reason.
Only problem is where is is the limit of this reason.
That is different for everyone as Darren said. It has to be within your reason.
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Offline Matto

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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2011, 10:02:16 AM »
So what if they say we will only be allowed to drive subaru's? Will you all be so richous.
I'd be OK with that - I've already got one. Supply and demand and all that - I might be able to sell it and retire.

Thanks!
Matto :)
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Re: 4WDing in Australia is under threat once again!
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2011, 10:21:20 AM »
Wow , someone opened a can of worms huh??

Who realisitically thinks that fitting a HOMEGROWN 6" lift and whacking a set of 37's on your 80 Series ISNT a recipe for disaster?? IF these things are done properly, AND they are certified as SAFE then sure. Unfortunatley, we probably all know at least one person who thinks " well Stuff it. I'm not paying to have this engineered. I'll worry about it if I get a Canary from the Cops".

Would I do it?? No. I personally am happy with my ManHood and dont need to overtly display my compensation for all to see. At least not for my daily drive.

HOWEVER, if you are building a Comp Truck, to use in an appropriate controlled environment of competition, then I say Go For It!! I have a few friends who build Comp trucks with Mad Lifts and tyres that look like they belong on one of those Dump Trucks you see in a mine!! But guess what? They dont drive it to work every day. They dont run it down the freeway on the 37"s wallowing around all over the place, with the freeway handleing of an aircraft carrier and sounding like a swarm of attacking Hornets! Some of them have them engineered, and the others Tow them to comps. Thats called being responsible. It is unfortunetly the irresponsible that cause this kind of  knee jerk, poorly thought out legislation to even grow legs in the first place. there must be a mechanism by which people who feel they need this type of Penis-extention (for what ever reason) can get is certified as safe. Have they worked the brakes? Gearing? Speedo calibrated? etc etc etc? does it indeed handle like a  boat? rather than just ban it and increase revenue from fines, they must put appropriate measures in place to inspect and certify.

There is a time and a place for big lifts and big tyres (Perhaps a diffrent topic all together........). If WE (the 4x4ing public) were sensible about it, this wouldnt be a problem, and politicians wouldn't be trying to play "Fun Police". Ya dont need 37" to drive to work or pick the kids up from school. The Anti-4x4 lobby of killjoys, greenines and ludites are already powerful enough. I must agree that the propensity for people to whack on 35's and go "tear up some tracks" is making it increasingly difficult for those of us who cant afford to run road tyres and off road tyres, to access some of the closer "recreational" tracks to keep our skills up nad ensure that when we go away once or twice a year on the bigger trips that we are a little more practiced and SAFER for all. The wheel ruts are getting so deep some places in Toolangi at the moments even 35's and 4" lift  wont be enough soon. It seems this area in used as a psudo Competiton track on a Sunday arvo to "Test" one's Manhood out by seeing who can go furthest and deepest. And then when you roll it over, I or my collegues come save your ass. More than once, drivers are more worried about their trucks than themselves or their passengers wellbeing? Go figure.

There is talk recently that scrub rails are gonna get the flick under a new interpretation by VicRoads of the current Roadworthy guidelines. Lets hope not.

There are all sorts of things that are scary on the road: 18 year olds in skylines and Supras' , Old (I mean REALLY old) people driving any car, so close to the steering wheel because it lets them see further, at 30-40 kph under the speed limit. MLC's (Mid-Life Crisis) with their SS comodores and FPV Falcons who think their 20 years driving experience makes them  Mark Webber or Craig Lowndes. And to some people its 10 foot high Landcruisers and Patrols. unfortunely , its seen as ok to bash 4x4 owners, but not old people, young people (unless they are wearing a hoodie, then its ok ;)  ) and middle aged people who drive fast road cars like idiots. I've been to all of these popele in my professional capacity. And I've been to 4x4 drivers. some in stock trucks, some modified.

If we (4x4 owners in general, and most of us ARE already) are a little sensible we might just take the target off our own backs. The problem is, the truely irresponsible ones dont care about other people. Darren is right in that you dont need to be a hard core lift-o-maniac to be irresponsbile either. People who chop up tracks with massive tyre or make a new track "just because" are equally to blame. they are stuffing it up for those of us who are responsible users
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