Upgrading Pajero to either LC200 or Disco4?

[Beachman]

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He doesn’t even need to put a safety  thumb over his stubby!       
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[GBC]

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He doesn’t even need to put a safety  thumb over his stubby!       

The single highest praise I could give that car. I’m glad someone understands! 

[gronk]

Take a D4 for a drive and you'll be hooked, i have driven LR's for 25 years and never had a breakdown. 2 Range Rovers and my 2nd Discovery, 375k on my first.
 D4 boot would be on par to a 200 and has the best 7 seat arrangement in any vehicle, 2 adult size seats that fold completely flush into the floor.
 I would also consider a newer Paj before any toyota product.

That's a pretty impressive run out of the pommie vehicles..   totally at odds with horror stories you hear of other owners....a couple used to be on this site also..

[Bird]

That's a pretty impressive run out of the pommie vehicles..   totally at odds with horror stories you hear of other owners....a couple used to be on this site also..

9 out of 10 landys are still on the road... the other one made it home

[Pete79]

Current Toyota “service bulletins”;

* clogged diesel particulate filters (DPF) that cause the vehicles to blow “excessive white smoke from the exhaust pipe”
* air sensors that become contaminated with dust and trigger the car into “limp home” mode
* Transmission thump that has been traced to the drive shaft. HiLux owners will get a new “rear propeller shaft slide joint”, but only on the second visit back to the dealer.

And let’s not talk about the faulty fuel injectors fitted in the first of the new shape Hilux or the fault that turns off the airbags in many Toyota models.

Current Ford Ranger “service bulletins”;
* intercooler pipes splitting
* rear main oil seals leaking
* harsh transmission shifts
* catastrophic engine failures
* heat shield fitted near the diesel particulate filter after 24 rangers caught fire

Plus a number of complete engine replacements from “bad fuel”....

Current model D-Max;
* cracked front shock tower





All of those known issues and not a flaming Jeep to be seen anywhere....

[gronk]

Current Toyota “service bulletins”;

* clogged diesel particulate filters (DPF) that cause the vehicles to blow “excessive white smoke from the exhaust pipe”
* air sensors that become contaminated with dust and trigger the car into “limp home” mode
* Transmission thump that has been traced to the drive shaft. HiLux owners will get a new “rear propeller shaft slide joint”, but only on the second visit back to the dealer.

And let’s not talk about the faulty fuel injectors fitted in the first of the new shape Hilux or the fault that turns off the airbags in many Toyota models.

Current Ford Ranger “service bulletins”;
* intercooler pipes splitting
* rear main oil seals leaking
* harsh transmission shifts
* catastrophic engine failures
* heat shield fitted near the diesel particulate filter after 24 rangers caught fire

Plus a number of complete engine replacements from “bad fuel”....

Current model D-Max;
* cracked front shock tower





All of those known issues and not a flaming Jeep to be seen anywhere....

All cars have faults......but it's how they deal with faults.
Land Rover and Jeep are well known to fob off people with faults...even under new car warranty..

[Pete79]

All cars have faults......but it's how they deal with faults.
Land Rover and Jeep are well known to fob off people with faults...even under new car warranty..

My brand new 2007 Hilux was fitted with the faulty injectors.
After reporting issues for 4 services in a row I mentioned the ACCC on my 5 service and they finally admitted they knew there was an issue and might find it in their harts to replace them with a working set.

Nobody should get sucked into that “Toyota reliability” BS these days.
30 years ago maybe, but modern Toyota vehicles are just as bad as all of those from the traditionally faulty manufacturers and there’s just as many “horror stories” about stranded Toyota owners as every other make.
The only advantage they have these days is that the mines still run full fleets of basically Toyota only vehicles. And as Spada’s mate recently found out, parts are easier to get WHEN your Toyota brakes down if you’re around a mining town.

[rags]

All cars have faults......but it's how they deal with faults.
Land Rover and Jeep are well known to fob off people with faults...even under new car warranty..

Yep agree, in our family we have had a diesel Mazda CX-5 fail at 150km and more recently a Subaru XV at 112km have catastrophic failures but to the credit of each manufacturer they replaced engines without question.
I would be interesting to see the percentage of say Toyota land cruisers that have failures, I would suggest that it would be lucky to be 1% of the vehicles on the road.
Probably the Jeeps and Landrover would not be too different.

[GBC]

Since we are looking at service bulletins back to 2011 (px1 ranger intercooler hose - updated on px2 and px3).

A list of a few HUNDRED grand Cherokee updates they have had over the exact same period. I would have cut and pasted but the list is too big.

http://www.wk2jeeps.com/wk2_tsb.htm

[vern]

Yep agree, in our family we have had a diesel Mazda CX-5 fail at 150km and more recently a Subaru XV at 112km have catastrophic failures but to the credit of each manufacturer they replaced engines without question.
I would be interesting to see the percentage of say Toyota land cruisers that have failures, I would suggest that it would be lucky to be 1% of the vehicles on the road.
Probably the Jeeps and Landrover would not be too different.

I suggest you check out the Toyota Landcruiser 1vd dusted engine Facebook page. I have read some folk on there are up to there 3rd engine in around 200kkm, which Toyota contributed to some of the funding, not all.

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[paul.o]

Have you considered a new Paj?

A lot of your concerns about your current car have been sorted with a newer model.

[shanegtr]

One of the main issues we brought our D3 when I had to replace our 80 series was for the 3rd row seating. Looked at 100 and 200 series but felt that they didn't really offer anything special in the 3rd row over the old 80 series. Im 6ft tall and I can comfortably sit in the 3rd row due to the built in footwell - all the landcruisers are just a flat floor. If I had to replace my D3 tomorrow my likely candidates for replacement would be another D3, D4 or Y62 patrol (I haven't personally checked out a Y62, but from what I've seen theres a heap more space behind the 3rd row compared to the Disco. I'd personally pick a petrol engine over a modern full emission diesel any day of the week).

[boobook]

I had a 2008 Landcruiser 200. Loved it. Like a lot of early 200's it had oil use problems and a steering rack failed. Toyota fixed both without blinking. It did let dust in the rear, but like most instances, this turns out to be where ARB forgot to seal the wiring inlet.

I really wanted to buy a disco as a replacement. On paper it is a better vehicle. Enough power, better economy, great built in suspension lift / drop, slightly better payload, more boxy shape etc. Tata even seems to have fixed reliability somewhat. But the more I looked into it, the less convinced I was.

Owners on these forums say they have been reliable, great. But talk to many owners, check review sites, look at Edmunds and other reliability sites and a few reviews. I know the internet is not always the best source, but there is overwhelming evidence that the problems still exist IN MY VIEW. I have 4 friends that had Disco 3's 4's or recent Rangies that voewed never again. Constant returns and fights with the dealers who say 'no fault found' or 'never seen that before'. The best one was the faulty handbrake on my mates Disco 3. It kept locking on, after several returns to LR, he googled it. The internet was riddled with the issue - like a plague. He showed that to LR and they instantly fixed it and admitted it was a common problem.

On top of that, all the dealers are in capital cities or on the east coast. The one exception is Alice Springs. There is 1500 km between dealers in the middle of Australia. One friend proudly said no problem, LR will arrange towing to a dealer. But when he read the fine print, there was a 200km limit then x$ per km  with no off road service. WTF?

Anyway, despite the Disco 4 being a theroetical better vehicle, I could not convince myself that I could rely on it for touring.

I have a new 200. Love it. They fixed the economy a little too.

I suggest you join Lcool for the 200 and Alruo (?) for the disco to get more owners opinions.

[shanegtr]

My D3 hasn't been without fault - and I've only had one issue that would not be considered a common known problem. But look into it enough and you'll find common issues with nearly everything on the road. nearly 320,000km on my D3 and I'd have no issues taking it to remote places

[tombie]

I work in LCs all week, I own LRs.

My LRs are almost exclusively used offroad and never had a failure to proceed.  The D4 has been faultless, so was the D3.

The D2 and D1 has a few niggles but was more induced by the serious level of modifications and arduous use.

My nearest LR dealer is 800km return and never had a problem, my nearest LC dealer is in town and we can never get anything more than filters from them in under 2 weeks.

A LR under warranty will be recovered from anywhere at no cost to owners - I’ve seen it happen - they even flew the family home at no cost and trucked the vehicle back.  They then were given a loan vehicle until it arrived back and was fixed.

Toyota had a friends LC200 in the workshop for 8 weeks waiting for parts and no loan vehicle.


Both brands are based on reputation.
One has a solid reputation but is no longer of that standard, the other has an old reputation to shake and is of a higher quality than those that preceded it by a huge margin.

A friend in our travel group had a small problem with his Defender - the service manager drove 5 hours to bring the replacement part and fitted it on site.  That’s the best advertisement for service you’ll get.

For service parts and spares - I can get parts for the D4 quicker, delivered to me than the Toyota dealers can get parts for my work vehicle.

Unbreakable?!?! Not even close.  New parts (not filters) are fitted to my work vehicle every service.

As I said before, if I was looking for a replacement it would be another LR or outside that a Y62.


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[tryagain]

Resale is something a lot of people don't take into account, figure out how long you plan to have it for and then look up the used values of their predecessors of that age, there is sometimes a significant difference which is worth factoring in, a more expensive car can actually cost less in the long run due too lesser rate of depreciation.

[tombie]

Resale is something a lot of people don't take into account, figure out how long you plan to have it for and then look up the used values of their predecessors of that age, there is sometimes a significant difference which is worth factoring in, a more expensive car can actually cost less in the long run due too lesser rate of depreciation.

Agree.

And again, driven by reputation.


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[BeeGee]

thanks for the continued feedback and debate.

I've driven 2 x D4s now and 2 x LC200s and looked over many more.
Also joined Aulro and Lcool forums and asked some questions there as well.
Also chatted to my mates with LC200s and a D4. In fact on Sunday we had a BBQ at my place and one brought their LC200 and the other brought their D4 HSE.  My wife and I drove them back to back.

The Disco wins for me for our needs. The rear 3rd row seat is far better than the LC200 which is just a flat floor. The Disco is about 15% better on fuel economy than the LC200.

[gronk]

There you go....there is only one person you've got to please...yourself. ( and the missus )