Most favoured Parks permit/ticketing systems

[Andrew_C]

I am reviewing a forest park camping permit system.
Before any complaints about having to pay, it costs $7 per car per night and all money is reinvested in the reserve. It has good facilities and a good family feel about it and gets patrolled regularly. It's only 1.25 hours from Melbourne and gets a lot of first time camping types and seasoned users. Rangers only patrol the area, there is nobody on site all the time.

We are reviewing the system because we have had nearly 5000 permits taken and only had 1800 returned (some even have money in them) The permits cost 75cents each to produce because of the numbering system, tear off front page and printing on the envelope which is very expensive and cutting a fair bit in to our operating money.

There is a series of reasons why the envelope numbering etc. is required for auditing.

Phone service is patchy so any phone/Internet options would have to be done in advance.
So - what do people think, I personally dislike the online systems and am leaning toward an electronic on site system due to the ongoing cost of the permits.
 Any other good options seen in your travels?

[Bird]

one issue for first timers is getting there and finding they needed to book online, could put them off.

I do believe there are some 'onsite' electronic ones around, cant remember where we were up around Eildon...

[Redcherokee]

Can you have two?

Internet for those that are organised in advance, machine for the rest of us.   Hate having to pay in advance for something I might change my mind about - ie, get there and decide it isn't what I  want and continue to next place. 

Reality with any of these systems is a lot of folk will turn up and only pay if they actually see a ranger.  So almost easier to just get the rangers to collect the money.

[austastar]

Hi,
   do you have a purchase and running cost on the electronic onsite system.
cheers

[Andrew_C]

Electronic system is around $10G, Running costs are pretty low, tickets, printer, & vandalism.
The other issue we have currently is people get a permit, fill it out with false info, put no money in the envelope, attach the false permit to their tent and the rangers are none the wiser because they don't go through the cash box and check the cash against permits. Rangers have no access to the cash box in the field for obvious reasons (not we don't trust them, we want them safely covered if an issue occurs)

It is not a booking system, our sites are first in best dressed. It is just to pay and get a permit. A quick report I ran this morning says 28% of the permits issued have incorrect money (rounded up and down to nearest note value, no money, a ashtray full of change, IOUS, Cheques, gum nuts, international cash etc, ). Rangers collecting cash is all bad news if you ask the auditor (and I agree). To cover their butts, our rangers do not even accept the permits with the money in them, people are told to put it in the box.

An electronic system means people cannot get a permit without paying (the correct amount) first. I noticed (thanks google) that NSW runs an electronic system in some parks, any user feedback while I speak to the management about their perception of what goes on?

[austastar]

Hi,
   Hmmm, I think the gum-nuts, false details etc are a small measurement of discontent.
 
Being now retired, I have a long memory of free camping with out this sort of bureaucratic requirement, and wonder how efficient it all is.


When Tas first introduced National Park fees, they rapidly disappeared  into the wages of the ticket collectors at the gates, very little got through to where it was wanted.


Perhaps there would be economies in having a National approach to all our 'National' parks with permission to visit/camp via similar to a registration sticker valid for a period of time.


There just has to be a better way.


cheers

[Oddy]

Interesting statistics about the envelope return rate - 36%.  What percentage had the correct, or about the correct money?

The only camp site where I have seen an electronic machine was at Myall Lakes NP in NSW were it was for the day use component only - the ranger collected the camping fee (although in our case, we never saw him) BUT - the machine in that camp had been completely vandalised and had an out of order sign on what was left of it (so, in our case, we couldn't pay that fee either).

I'd be concerned that the vandalism cost, if $10K for a new machine, would wipe out your funds quickly.

The most annoying systems are those on-line ones that insist on a reservation for a particular site number, but don't provide a plan of the sites. The Qld ones have improved in that respect over time, but even a plan doesn't tell you which site has better shade, more even/flat surface etc. It would make sense to me if they limited the number of reservations to the number of sites, and left selection of site to first come, first served.

Cheers
Oddy

[Andrew_C]

Austastar- regs are regs, I'm not making the regs, they were signed of in 2010 by the vic gov and will be reviewed in 10 years.

Without the funds, I would say the sites would be eventually closed, and the funds are spent all in the reserve, we have three blocks of flush toilets in a state forest camping area after all. $7 a night per car is very fair.

I agree that the online systems are a pain but in saying that, especially over Easter, our sites are full and people are left looking for somewhere to camp, luckily there is 40000 hectares of state forest around the reserve where people can camp wherever they want.

The sites are good and the facilities are as good as any I have seen in national parks or forests anywhere in the country, and generally a lot cheaper.

Not all the people are short changing, a fair few pay more because they either have notes or are very happy to see the money being spent on good facilities. It's pretty rare to get bad reports about our sites and facilities, general complaints are about bogan campers. Even complaints about trail bikes have reduced since we have patrolled so much they know that it's either comply or pack up.

Our vandalism protection work is as good or better than anyone.( we have had lots of experience)