Pending closure Arthur-Pieman Conservation Area

[Blueroo]

It looks like the Tas Govt is planning to close the iconic Arthur-Pieman Conservation Area on Tasmania’s West Coast. They’re planning to close Sandy Cape and the Tarkine Forest and that’s just the beginning.
We just got back from touring around down there and it would be a travesty to see this area shut to 4WD'ing. Sure you will be able to walk in but walking in these areas can be dangerous due to being caught out in extreme weather and because it will take a few days you need to be a hard core walker so 4WD closures in Tas effectively block access to the general public.

If you want to do something about it there is a form letter of protest at

http://enews.emgroup.com.au/4wd/2012/tassie_act_now/index.html

cheers
Stue

[dazzler]

Well after watching John Rooth I was really cranky that PWS would lock up sandy cape and most of the west coast as he states at the start of his video. So I went to the parks website.

Here is the link to the report that PWS prepared;

http://www.parks.tas.gov.au/file.aspx?id=26412

looking, looking - Hang on a minute - they haven't stopped access to Sandy Cape

If your not up for a full read just go to the maps at the end.

If the track is RED its been closed.  If its BLACK it remains open.

Worth a read so you can make up your mind if the claims are true before clicking on the 4wd Action link.

[Sixtys Guy]

Roothy is indicating is that if these tracks go, then there is no reason the rest won't. I call it fighting fire with fire........ Read this article from local Greens member Paul O'halloran and see who is telling the truth: http://tasmaniantimes.com/index.php/article/arthur-pieman-4wds-minister-wightman-feds-need-to-approve

29 tracks have already been closed in years past. Now they are closing another 15. This is despite the area being as well managed as it has ever been. I was there about a month ago and the area is as good as ever. PWS have predicted that they will raise $250,000 per year in revenue from the 4wd Permit system that they implemented at the end of 2010. Not included in this is the revenue that they will raise  by starting up an enterprise running tag a long tours to the Interview River and the Interview Mines - areas that are earmarked to be closed. Where is the money going? Obviously not to keeping tracks open and managing them.

Having read the report it appears that the PWS and the DPIWE realise that the area needs to be managed, but they (apparently) don't have the resources, so the easy option is to close the area.

At the end of the day it's about not locking us out of our own land.

[austastar]

Hi,
   a quick look at the first few maps shows that some of the tracks being closed are quite inconsequential, some only a few 100m and there is alternate tracks near by.
I'm thinking of plotting the lot on a google satellite map to get my head around what is actually happening here, cause the maps in the report are a little cryptic and disjointed.
cheers

[Sixtys Guy]

The main area being closed is the track between Sandy Cape and the Interview River. This is the best part of the area, apart from between the Interview River and the Pieman River, which was closed years ago.

[Moto Mech]

The point is that we shouldnt be shut out of anywhere(within reason). Its OUR country, they are making money from us to use it, most of the time we clear the tracks to keep them open and then these wankers in offices decide what will be closed with no idea of what really goes on.
The point is, if we dont stand up to them closing tracks, they will simply keep doing it and our kids will have no where left to go 4Wding or have nothing left to see. Sure the places will still be there but you wont be able to get to them to see them. Anyone that says "wont hurt to close this track or that track, they dont go anywhere" is sticking their head in the sand, you have to look at the BIG picture.

[Sixtys Guy]

Well said MM!

[Bird]

Having read the report it appears that the PWS and the DPIWE realise that the area needs to be managed, but they (apparently) don't have the resources, so the easy option is to close the area.

At the end of the day it's about not locking us out of our own land.

This is the story Aust wide... The budget in Victoria is about 1/10th what it needs to be for parks maintanance..
If the same areas get rooted up all the time, they will just close them.

[dazzler]

A couple of things.  I dont like being lied to or being led about by the nose like a donkey.  It doesnt matter whether the lie comes from the greens or a 4wd magazine. 

If you accept a lie because it supports what you want then, well, I really dont know what that says but it cant be good can it?

(Reference = There will be no carbon tax under a govt that I lead.)

The truth is that the vast majority of the report makes sense if you;
a) take the time to read it logically and without any bias
b) you accept that the spread of Phytophthora is bad (google it)
c) you can differentiate the difference between 4wding as a sport and 4wding to access areas to camp or to experience the bush
d) you accept the view that aboriginal heritage is worth protecting

If your view is that you should be able to go wherever you like then no matter what the govt does you wont agree with it.  I think you would be in the minority of Australians though (outside of the 4wd sport community).

If your view is that you would like to visit the area, camp, bushwalk and enjoy the bush then the truth is you will see very little, or no difference at all.  Other than the Johnsons Head sth run access is virtually unchanged in that you can still access most areas of the coast just not by all the tracks.  This wont make a jot of difference to those other than the 4wd sport people because you can still get there.

Whilst I dont like the idea of the Johnsons Head run being restricted I can understand the point behind it.  Rather than a tag along type thing it should remain open to accredited 4wd clubs.

Finally, drop the shiny bum crap about the govt agencies not knowing what goes on.  I have met a lot of these people and they are all no more shiny bums than 4wders are redneck bums. Most are decent smart people who have probably spent more time than most in the bush.

Hope we can still be mates.

Dazzler 

[Moto Mech]

Re the shiny bum crap
Yes some of these guys are right and want to do the right thing, then they submit plans to the govermant minister who has no idea(yes, he is the one sitting in his nice warm office) and says, "no no money, lock it up"
We just need to be heard and not be seen as easy "push overs". The rally may not accomplish anything but it may also make the govermant "think" about the offroad communities voteing power and voice.
And me, Im a recreational 4wder, I like to get to these spots to camp, to show the family whats about or even just a days drive, I like to drive in to these spots without damaging anything, vehicle or track, but in all reality the bush will recover from us using it, how long after a track is closed does it take to totally dissapear. Yes people, mother nature is far more powerful than we think.
Going on recent thinking, how much of Australia would be opened up? How many outback tracks would exist? The canning, nooo cant put a track through that fragile desert country. The Hay river track, Simpson desert, even the Cape. Even lately the Bloomfield track through the rain forest, walk 20mts off the track and you may not find your way back out.

[austastar]

To get some perspective from the report, which I find difficult to understand, I have started to plot the tracks (only done map 1, 2, 3  so far) and pasted the reasons for closing in the track in a dialog box that can be read by clicking the track.


You can zoom, and change the image to satellite image to recognise where you are looking at.


cheers

[Roddersz]

This is a tough one...

No doubt the minor elements have a LOT to do with this, but at the end of the day the fact is there is no money to look after these places, so they just lock them up. I don't so much think in GENERAL that any damages 4WDers are going to do is going to be too lasting BUT there is the contamination and spread of nastys that is an issue. That said I also know of a couple of private properties in the highlands where the "minor elements" weren't just roughing up tracks but also doing damage to fences, gate and other infrastructure. Quite reasonably these have been closed.

I would also think that there would be some degree of protecting the public thought happening, IF for example the tracks were allowed to degrade, and some newbie 4WDer was hurt or killed in any way that could be linked back to the condition of the track, all we would hear is "They" should be doing something about the tracks before more people are hurt" etc...when the simple truth is there is just no money to do that. Thus the best way is to restrict access.

I also have to say, having worked in government for over 10 years, even though it is made to SOUND like the Ministers are making the decision, they aren't, they are just the one with their name on the decision. MOST of these sorts of decisions are made at a much lower level and passed up the line for approval. This would certainly not be the case of some bureaucrat sitting in an office just saying "Lock it up", I would be willing to bet that the rangers on the ground would have had a lot of input to he recommendation.  That isn't to say that sometimes they get it wrong - but hey don't we all now and then.

Just my 2c...

Cheers
Rod

[Moto Mech]

To get some perspective from the report, which I find difficult to understand, I have started to plot the tracks (only done map 1 so far) and pasted the reasons for closing in the track in a dialog box that can be read by clicking the track.


You can zoom, and change the image to satellite image to recognise where you are looking at.


cheers




http://maps.google.com.au/maps/ms?msid=213613439969283797317.0004bf540c14f5a368a8d&msa=0&ll=-40.982749,144.661102&spn=0.104837,0.154324

So how do we get to the black sections if the red sections are closed?
And people have been using these tracks forever and the aboriginal artifacts have been there even longer but are still there, so whats the problem? I for one am interested in Aboriginal heritage but its gunna mean little if I cant get to it to see it first hand.

[Sixtys Guy]

Logic? Hard to define.

Biased? Sure am.

For those who has visited the area you would know that is an iconic trip. The track (Temma to the Interview River) is not actually that difficult (quick sand aside). If the 'lads' are looking for a mud plugging afternoon, this is not the area for it. The trip area is best visited over at least a few days. The attraction is the amazing scenery, the solitude, the unique camp sites, and the history of the area (mining, cattle farming and Aboriginal Heritage).

And as far as Aboriginal Heritage is concerned, it is something that I am passionate about! Yes there are aboriginal middens and other aboriginal heritage in the area. How good would it be to have an Aboriginal interpretive centre outlining the history of the Aboriginal Tarkiner tribe in the area. Make the sites a tourist attraction, have guided Aboriginal tours so all Australians can learn and share in the history and culture. It would be an opportunity missed if these type of sites are not promoted. Check these links:
http://www.aboriginaltourism.australia.com/
http://www.australiascoralcoast.com/tours-activities/indigenous-experiences

I strongly disagree with the notion that closing south of Johnson's Head won't make a difference. Of course it will. It is the most isolated part of the area and most rich in history. Just as closing between the Interview River and the Pieman River made a difference. It detracts from the overall enjoyment of the area.

Having the tracks remain open to accredited 4wd clubs is 'pie in the sky'. It won't happen, because they don't want anyone in there (unless they can charge you more for the privilege).

'shiny bum crap' 

As far as funding for the area goes, PWS have generated hundreds of thousands of $$ revenue from 4wdrivers in the last 18 months. Can this money be spent in managing the area instead of closing it.....

[austastar]

Hi,
   only done 2 maps so far, looking at the tracks on google satellite and trying to match them up with the reasonably primitive maps in the report.
With only 2 maps done, I'm not too upset with what I've found so far. Often the tracks marked for closure are duplicates or close to relics.


I'll do some more later, Google is starting to slow down with the amount of data, so I will probably start a new map for the next ones.

So how do we get to the black sections if the red sections are closed?

All the black bits I've put in so far link up with public roads.


cheers

[dazzler]

Maybe it would be easier for those who dont know the area to pick some of the tracks and make your mind up from that.

Have a look at map 2.  Here are the changes - tracks 210, 202, 206, 210, 213, 214, 216, 218, 209, 220.  There are 10 tracks.  Is closing ANY of those ten tracks going to change anything?  You can still get to the beach, Gardiner Pt, Sundown Pt.  They are just duplications or 4wd sport tracks.

Map 3.  There are 5 tracks that all cut across from Temma Rd to the beach.  It wont change any appreciation or enjoyment of the area.

Then read the notes and it identifies the reasons.

Thats just two maps out of them and I didnt even try and be clever by being selective.  If you dont NEED to drive over aboriginal sites to get somewhere then why do it?  I wouldnt drive over an old church site or a white fella cultural site so why not respect it?

What would be good is to identify tracks that will seriously damage or effect normal 4wd/camping in the area. 

I hope I am not coming off as a rabid greenie here but I am just dont get the concerns going off what is in the report.

Agree with the management argument.  But, its gotta be done by two up patrols that are armed or done by the cops.  I have been with a PWS bloke down here looking into woodhooking.  Came across 4 woodhookers and I have never been as worried about getting beaten to death than I did in 18 years as a cop.  There are some serious sheet heads out there let me tell you.

cheers all.

daz

[Sixtys Guy]

Daz, I'd say we will agree to disagree on this subject. Reading your last post I can only assume that you haven't been to the area, nor have an understanding of the PWS report as most of the tracks you mention are already closed.

Of the 10 tracks you have mentioned:
210 - Track is already closed
202 - Track remaining open in summer
206 - To be partially closed
210 - You noted this one twice
213 - Track is already closed
214 - Track is already closed
216 - Track is already closed
218 - Track is already closed
209 - To be closed
220 - Track is already closed

No one I know condones driving over Aboriginal Sites. I personally have the utmost respect for Aboriginal heritage and would like to see is these marked with interpretive signs or other means as per my previous post. What I can say is that none of the Aboriginal sites are marked in any way and it is not immediately apparent as to what it is until it has been already driven on. This issue I believe is quite simple and could be easily solved with proper management.

In my mind the major issues in terms of track closures are those south of Johnson's Head. However, as I said before, they have closed tracks previously in the area and the general belief is that this is just the next round, and then will be further closures in the area in the future. Once they are closed, they will never be opened again, so unfortunately what I have been able to enjoy - responsible 4wdriving and camping- in a beautiful, isolated part of the world will never be an option for my children.

As for PWS enforcing management of the area, I don't believe firearms would be / are  required......... Surely gathering registration of offending vehicles and issuing fines or passing details along to the Police would suffice.

[omelette]

Hi guys, I am a shack owner at Jack Smith's Boat Harbor just past Temma. 40 years of my life has been involved and dedicated to the area, and my family's history down here spans over 100 years. I hope this qualifies me to make comments on your forum.

The debate above about lies sure does ring true but I think Roothy is just guilty of not receiving all of the facts or information has been interpreted differently as it was passed down the chain. Let me say I do own a 4x4 but only as means of transportation to the shack and not for 4wding recreation, but I don't be-grudge anyone enjoying the area sensibly in their jacked up cruiser wagon or an old bung-bung suzuki. I just hope the proposed rally doesn't turn into a "Roothy show" and all about 4wders, as there are many walks of life who enjoy the area.

The Save Our Heritage group has been trying to achieve a fair compromise and asked for transparency from the Minister and Parks & Wildlife, we spent thousands of hours surveying tracks, environmental and aboriginal values and liaised with PWS. We too decided to close small tracks that lead to nowhere and had funding from private groups to fence and educate people about the cultural values of the area. We organised through PWS a Social values study on European history and values, a very well renowned Environmental Scientist gave usage a glowing and sustainable recommendation only to have the government and PWS turn their back on us and go with an original decision they came to over two years ago.

PWS have always had an agenda to close the west coast from Temma, they have told us many times directly to myself and my family, about ten or more years ago they sent us 5 year un-renewable lease, if we just accepted it the west coast would well and truly would be just a bushwalkers only paradise littered with sea spurge. My family and other shack owners fought it at a cost of around $12k each shack and found the PWS had nothing to back up any claims they made, they even tried to say the Tas Fire Service recommended 25m fire breaks and considering we are not allowed to chop down vegitation the shacks had to go! That's all they had.

Shacks around Tassie were catergorised into 3 groups, green (we could buy the land) yellow (keep the land under lease agreement) and Red (pull it down immediately) they left us to last so that we didn't have numbers to fight, but the independent surveys gave most of the shack owners south of Temma a green light including us. In stepped the PWS and said no friggin way will those shack sites ever be sold to private owners.

Back to the tracks..... There is a beautiful shack at "The Gannet" between Temma and Sandy Cape, it sits 20 or so meters from the jagged rocks and wild waves, absolutely magic, the owners still have access to it from the inland "Temma track" but the coastal track it sits between is closed. The problem is the owner can't tow his boat 100m from his shack to the only suitable site to launch it, if he does he is breaking the law. (are you guys sensing my hostility towards the bureaucratic fools now?)

PWS erected a fence at Greens Creek just before Sandy cape beach, we told them it would destroy a beautiful campground if they didn't allow access around it. The fence was just a straight line it had no boundaries and could be accessed from both sides, it just stopped through traffic on an already existing and hard wearing track. People would get to the fence and have to back track and the first place they seen and go through was a ripper little grassy campground sheltered from all elements (a rarity on the west). It's sadly now a sand bowl with a great gash bull hole carved  through the hill that used to protect it. PWS could have averted this as they were told many times by many people, but again chose to ignore experienced people and instead forward pictures of the desecrated bowl to the Minister explaining how 4wders are destroying the place.

The airstrip hut at Sandy Cape is going to be pulled down by Parks & Wildlife because it doesn't meet building codes, history of the hut dates back 150 years and the Save Our Heritage group tried to have it Heritage listed so that it could be saved. PWS have said that it has been rebuilt and there is no heritage value associated with it. Let me ask you this, Waldheim Hut at Cradle Mountain has been rebuilt many times and that is still heritage listed, what is the difference?

Rumor also going around that South of Sandy Cape is going to be given back to the Tasmania Aboriginal Corporation TAC in exchange for letting the government build the Brighton Bypass. If you live in Tassie, haven't you noticed how quiet the TAC has gone on this all of a sudden? Not like them to get back in the hole they came from.

Users of the area are having a rally at Smithton Recreation ground 12 noon, 20th May 2012. Everyone is welcome and free camping is available in Smithton, you can check the website  ourwestcoast.com for details. The Minister Brian Wightman is attending but at this stage I don't think he'll have the balls to get up and speak.

Anyway I've ranted enough,

Hope to see some of you guys at the rally.

Omelette

PS. A little more history of the west coast can be found here -

http://parkswildlife.blogspot.com.au/

[dazzler]

Daz, I'd say we will agree to disagree on this subject. Reading your last post I can only assume that you haven't been to the area, nor have an understanding of the PWS report as most of the tracks you mention are already closed.

Of the 10 tracks you have mentioned:
210 - Track is already closed
202 - Track remaining open in summer
206 - To be partially closed
210 - You noted this one twice
213 - Track is already closed
214 - Track is already closed
216 - Track is already closed
218 - Track is already closed
209 - To be closed
220 - Track is already closed

No one I know condones driving over Aboriginal Sites. I personally have the utmost respect for Aboriginal heritage and would like to see is these marked with interpretive signs or other means as per my previous post. What I can say is that none of the Aboriginal sites are marked in any way and it is not immediately apparent as to what it is until it has been already driven on. This issue I believe is quite simple and could be easily solved with proper management.

In my mind the major issues in terms of track closures are those south of Johnson's Head. However, as I said before, they have closed tracks previously in the area and the general belief is that this is just the next round, and then will be further closures in the area in the future. Once they are closed, they will never be opened again, so unfortunately what I have been able to enjoy - responsible 4wdriving and camping- in a beautiful, isolated part of the world will never be an option for my children.

As for PWS enforcing management of the area, I don't believe firearms would be / are  required......... Surely gathering registration of offending vehicles and issuing fines or passing details along to the Police would suffice.

Hi Sixties.  I have camped there in 03 and 08 and the only place in tas I havent camped is the lakes area as its too bloody cold.  Of course I imagine I have about 1/100th of the  knowledge of the area that you and our new friend omelette has.

But.  My argument is simple.  Dont let people tell untruths and thats exactly what appears in the link to 4wd action site.

If people argue the points that are wrong in the report then I will support the argument.  Go the John Rooth way and I wont because it tars all '4wders' with the brush of 4wd action.  (dogs in national parks - a worthy spokesperson?)

The last thing you want anywhere near a 'rally' is the type of 4wd's that 4wd action supports as it will do exactly that - give the media the footage they need to garner more support for closing tracks.

Re the enforcement.  I have locked up heaps of crapheads and been in lots of worrying stuff as a cop.  I can tell you though that none of that comes close to being in the middle of nowhere with some of the toothless crapheads that are in the bush in this state.  Let me tell you they are not myswaggers by any stretch.  Only time I have ever felt like I wasnt going home. 

Hope that makes sense.

cheers

daz

[omelette]

daz, i suppose the idea of my post was to highlight that our own government services are lying to us and the greens will say whatever it takes, so don't be too hard on Roothy. Due to a lot of crap we see on TV we live in a dramatised community and that's the angle Rooth is taking, talking it up and rallying his troops. Remember Steve Irwin? Ask any Yank who he was and they'd know. He used the same technique.

[Sixtys Guy]

Sounds like we are on the same page after all Daz........ Hope to see you at the rally!