Author Topic: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension  (Read 6362 times)

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Offline Dax

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Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« on: December 23, 2011, 09:17:11 PM »
Have had my new 2012 kk since tuesday just gone , and as I found out I couldn't get the Bridgestone dueller D694 ,same that's on my Isuzu , because they are 10 ply rating!!
The dealer suggested BFGoodrich ,well today while checking bearing temps on the trailer I looked at the rating and it says PR10!
My first question, is it normal for 10 PR to be frowned upon ( the kk dealer told me that Toyota also have in there warranty policy no 10 PR)?
Second question have BFGoodrich AT's always been 10 PR?
Third question and the one that I am most interested in What are your thoughts on the effect on the suspension of the camper (or vehicle) with a 10PR?
« Last Edit: December 23, 2011, 09:39:47 PM by Dax »

Offline JethroT

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2011, 10:08:14 PM »
I fitted 694 light truck tyres to the Prado and they ride slightly harder than the old dunlops, but not enough to hurt the suspension.   At the time they were available in passenger and light truck construction, however,  If you have warranty concerns it might be better to be safe than sorry.
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Offline Black Diamond

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2011, 10:20:30 PM »
 No. Not all BFG come in 10 ply.
Most 10ply tyres have quiet rigid sidewalls, therefore your suspension will work harder to soak up the bumps but keeping the tyre pressures right is the key.
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Offline qlddsl

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #3 on: December 24, 2011, 06:00:29 AM »
agree with BD, keep the pressures right and there wont be a problem. you can run a lower pressure in a LT tyre, for the same load compared to a passenger rated tyre. therefore less chance of damage, punctures and better traction..
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Offline Tim - Stratford

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2011, 01:57:50 PM »
I was told the same thing (it is also in the manual) when I picked up our KK earlier this year. I ended up with BFG A/T's from the KK factory.

There was some discussion on ply rating and side wall strength a while back, I think it was LCOOL. A few of the doof-doof crowd were playing around with 100 Series Cruisers, lowering them, supercharging the petrol motors, and generally turning them into street cars....more room for doof doof speakers I guess.

The bottom line was that they also went to super low profile tyres and massive rims - which ended in suspension failure as there was zero sidewall left to assist the suspension.

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Offline Hal Harvey

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2011, 08:08:54 PM »
I've had two vehicles now where I've changed from 'ten-ply' truck tyres to LT tyres. The first, a Daihatsu Delta van, anybody would swear had had a complete suspension replacement. The difference made was enormous, went from bone-jarring to fine, with just a wheel and tyre change. The OKA wasn't so dramatic because the suspension was already very kind. But that's what squishy sidewalls are doing for your camper trailer too - getting rid of the jarring - some of what shakes your kitchen to bits and smashes the eggs in your fridge.

The BFGs may well have a '10-ply' load rating (maybe not really in Isuzu size), but they almost certainly have three-ply sidewalls (a couple of sizes have four-ply). They're much kinder to your contents and assembly than the six-ply or eight-ply sidewalls that 'truck' tyres have, and that's what the manufacturers are wanting to keep you away from (and rightly so). Tyre pressure is not a cure-all; any tyre with a six-ply sidewall will be a lot harder riding than a three-ply sidewall at the same pressure.

What you should be looking at is the load rating - if you have a trailer that never weighs more than 1000kg and you have a pair of tyres capable of carrying three times that, they're going to be hard-riding and your rivets will shake loose and your limiting straps will get a workout if the pressure's up. BFGs are probably as good as any other LT tyre in this regard, and the load rating is probably going to be given at 65psi and may be frighteningly high; but fortunately with three-ply sidewalls, keeping the pressure down to something less than half that may be entirely appropriate.

Offline Jason B

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2011, 09:16:15 PM »
I would suspect that not just the strength and rigidity of the tyre are an issue here. If the 10 ply LT, tyre is heavier than the passenger vehicle spec tyre, the unsprung weight becomes an issue for your suspension.

The heavier the tyre, disk, hub, wheel etc the more work the suspension has to do to control it. Imagine what happens when you are doing 100ks and hit a decent pothole, your wheel and tyre are thrown at your CT with massive force, and the suspension has to deal with this, as you make that mass heavier it gets worse and eventually can end in fatigue, failed shocks or even broken springs.

I would stick with KK's recommendations as I believe they are pretty hard on warranty with regard to this issue. I think they have also placed temp stickers on the shocks so that they can identify over heating which is also a contentious warranty issue.


Regards


Jas

Offline Boxhead 71

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2011, 09:52:01 PM »
Remember, it says 10 PR, which means Ply RATING. You don't buy 10 ply tyres any more, you get a tyre with a rating equivalent to an old nylon cross ply with 10 plies [not radial steel belted, but nylon plies crossed over]. A tyre with a higher RATING will carry more if you're after carrying capacity, but you still have to stay under the trailers maximum legal weight, and it appears that a lot [not all] people going for the heavier ply rating are after puncture resistance. I say this because most tyres have PASSENGER ratings [not LT] way above and beyond the vehicles legal load carrying capacity; e.g. the Courier specs tyres with a load capacity of 1120 kgs. That's 4480 kilos all up; way over weight. If a camper is specced up for 1500 kilos, get tyres rated at a ton each e.g. 109 [1020 kgs i think]. The passenger spec tyres are lighter so unsprung weight is kept down, the sidewalls have some flex so your suspension has an easier time of it, and you don't have to worry about the eggs and beer and kitchen brackets. If you're that worried about puncture resistance get BFG's with Tri-Guard sidewalls, or Cooper ST-C's, or something, and keep good tyres with plenty of tread on. The more rubber you've got, the further the air has to go to get out!  ;D Chris.
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Offline ondaboat

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2011, 02:17:26 AM »
Well here's one for thought, when looking at campers (KK) was told that they would not match my Cooper ST Maxx 265/70R17 on a KK camper I asked why and he said because of their side wall was too strong?? Well when I registered new camper looked at tires as above and ST Maxx have a 3 ply side wall.......WTF... Rang my tire man and he then started rambling on about the denier thickness of thee ply side wall and lots of other stuff. So buggered if I uderstand it.

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Offline Boxhead 71

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2011, 09:43:12 PM »
Not trying to sound critical, but why did you want Coopers on the camper? There are lots of tyres around that would be perfectly capable on the trailer without having the hassle with your warranty from KK.
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Offline TOPNDR

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2011, 01:48:22 AM »
Not trying to sound critical, but why did you want Coopers on the camper? There are lots of tyres around that would be perfectly capable on the trailer without having the hassle with your warranty from KK.

I aim to have the same tyre/rim combo all around, so that if push comes to shove, I can use camper wheels on the car, if required.  Whilst I've lt encountered this problem yet, I have on occasion used the camper spares on the car, simply because they're much more conveniently accessed, as opposed to the underslung Toyota spare.
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Offline Jason B

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2011, 08:04:50 PM »
Hey mate.

I was doing a bit of work on my 80 Series and KK today. I had a chance to compare my current tyres that are on the Cruiser with those on the KK as to my suprise the wheels are interchangable (Woo hoo!) (I was told the KK was set up for a Hilux)

I thought of this thread whilst I was doing it and thought I would post a couple of pics.

My KK runs BFG All terain LT 275 / 70 R 16's. I weighed these (70% tread) and they were 35.6kg

My 80 Series runs Cooper STT LT 265 / 75 R 16's and these weighed 36.6kg (80% tread)

Both vehicles run ROH Track 2 wheels.

The Coopers are a little higher by about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. There was bugger all in the width.

Not much in the weight between the two really, noting they are not quite the same size.


Regards


Jas

 

Offline Jason B

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2011, 08:07:46 PM »
The BFG

Offline ondaboat

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2011, 06:33:53 PM »
Not trying to sound critical, but why did you want Coopers on the camper? There are lots of tyres around that would be perfectly capable on the trailer without having the hassle with your warranty from KK.
As TOPNDR said purely so I can interchange tires between both if necessary, still neet to get a set of prado alloy's for it

Regards Adam

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Offline Boxhead 71

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2011, 06:54:17 PM »
agree with BD, keep the pressures right and there wont be a problem. you can run a lower pressure in a LT tyre, for the same load compared to a passenger rated tyre. therefore less chance of damage, punctures and better traction..

Correct me if i'm wrong [and it happens fairly regularly ;)], but you HAVE to run a lower pressure in a LT rated tyre, [when 4bying] due to the fact the whole carcass is stiffer than a passenger rated tyre. I'm not sure i understand you blokes theory on why you need LT tyres. I'm not bein' a smart arse; i would like to know.
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Offline ondaboat

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2011, 07:15:38 PM »
Howdy Boxhead 71

To be honest I don't know either I just like spending money and they look cool + there noisy what more could I want.
On a serious not I got them as I have a big trip planned mid next year 2 x 5 weeks through the Kimberlies & Plibara then down Coral Coast. Was due for some new tires and just wanted more side wall protection. It is amazing the strenght difference between a Grand trek and a ST Maxx serious chalk n cheese.

Regards Adam

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Offline qlddsl

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Re: Ply ratings on tyres and the effect on suspension
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2012, 06:59:39 AM »
Correct me if i'm wrong [and it happens fairly regularly ;)], but you HAVE to run a lower pressure in a LT rated tyre, [when 4bying] due to the fact the whole carcass is stiffer than a passenger rated tyre. I'm not sure i understand you blokes theory on why you need LT tyres. I'm not bein' a smart arse; i would like to know.
A lt spec tyre has a stronger sidewall, less chance of damaging them. Yes you have to run lower pressures, added traction from this is a bonus. Passenger spec tyres are made for hwy comfort, not for off road durability.
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