Group Touring Etiquette

[DannyG]

We are not that experienced in touring with a group of people so I thought id ask what every one thinks is good etiquette.

Obviously there are loads of things not to do while driving.....such as you wouldnt be a goose and continually overtake everyone in your group or sit in the next persons dust etc.

But I am more looking for ideas as to whats acceptable with the logistical side of things.

Being the group leader so to speak would it be acceptable to nominate a time on departure days that everyone should be packed up and ready to go? We wont be rushed but there are still time constraints so I dont want to take the relaxed "we will leave when everyone is ready" approach either.

When you stop and call into road side sites such as ruins etc would it be too regimented to suggest a time frame?? Once again I am pretty relaxed about it all but I have had friends on trips who have got into deep conversation with other friends at a stop, while the rest of us sat there ready to go for about 20 minutes waiting for them to finish gas bagging. I felt it was quite rude of the people who were holding everyone up but we had no real time constraints on this particular day so i didnt want to hurry them up, it wasnt a day i had organised so it wasnt really my place anyway.

Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to whats the best way to allocate sites when space is limited or is it best left to everyone as every man for himself so to speak?

Is it normal to share supplies such as food? You know, one family takes heaps of one thing and another family takes heaps of something else? I know it is smart to share the load when it comes to tools and spares etc but it has been suggested that a similiar thing be done with food. Too be honest I am not that keen on this as I feel it is too complicated?

What about meal times, it is suggested to take in turns cooking meals.....hmm once again we are a Family of 5 and that alone takes some feeding let alone cooking for everyone else. I just dont see it being feasible. Sure we could do the vegies while another family does the meat or something along those lines but I just think its best to look after your own meals??

I am keen to hear your ideas and suggestions on all this.

Id like to have a chat to the group before we head off and put it too them that these are the rules so to speak, purely to keep the show on the road and make sure everyone has an enjoyable time. Most people are family or good friends so all these issues would not really be issues because I would simply tell them to get their ass into gear as we are leaving but there may be a couple of ring ins that are a bit of an unknown on a lot of levels so thats why I am asking. If it wasnt for the potential to have these other families tag along I wouldnt be concerned about all this but being the organiser I feel I have an obligation to make sure everyone knows where they stand before we leave.

Id also be keen to hear any horror stories in regards to all this too LOL

[Bird]

Depending on the trip, I feel everyone should be self sufficient - but you would tell them this as part of the trip planning.
Print out a trip plan give a copy to everyone BEFORE going on the tripo

You can do everything below before leaving home if you know peoples needs (Camper sizes etc) - I'd suggest doing it 2-4 weeks before while telling everyone of the final plans. Give people time to buy **** if they need it

Make sure everyone knows the name of the person infront and behind them so if they need to call up on radio they dont just say "HEY DUDE IN WHITE CAR YOUR ON FIRE"

Obviously there are loads of things not to do while driving.....such as you wouldnt be a goose and continually overtake everyone in your group or sit in the next persons dust etc.

Trip Leader picks the convoy layout.. and everyone sticks with it. Remember to pick someone you trust and who knows where your going to be Tail End Charlie.

Being the group leader so to speak would it be acceptable to nominate a time on departure days that everyone should be packed up and ready to go? We wont be rushed but there are still time constraints so I dont want to take the relaxed "we will leave when everyone is ready" approach either.

Trip leader Picks departure time, and tells everyone either when stopping the night before or after dinner. So there are no surprises and if anyone has an issue you have plenty of time to work it out.

When you stop and call into road side sites such as ruins etc would it be too regimented to suggest a time frame?? Once again I am pretty relaxed about it all but I have had friends on trips who have got into deep conversation with other friends at a stop, while the rest of us sat there ready to go for about 20 minutes waiting for them to finish gas bagging. I felt it was quite rude of the people who were holding everyone up but we had no real time constraints on this particular day so i didnt want to hurry them up, it wasnt a day i had organised so it wasnt really my place anyway.

I'd say if they are just talking **** tell them "lets get going", then jump in your car and start driving, they will soon move.

Does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to whats the best way to allocate sites when space is limited or is it best left to everyone as every man for himself so to speak?

First come first served unless there is someone who *NEEDS* a larger site. but this is something you work out at camp on Day 1 - or weeks before if you know the size they require. If one needs acres, and all others are small, let everyone know. You walk round see who needs what, and have a quiet word before take off in the morning. "Fred needs a site for hisw 50x50 trailer, so when we get to camp, leafve the largest, and fight over the rest.
If everyone has a good attitude, there should be no questions with any of this..

But do things early.

Is it normal to share supplies such as food? You know, one family takes heaps of one thing and another family takes heaps of something else?

No - You buy what you need for your car. Only at Happy Hour.  Cryovacing meat is gold.. even prepared meals to just reheat in boiling water (lasagnes and stuff - learnt that from DDR and his missus when we did Fraser Island).

What about meal times, it is suggested to take in turns cooking meals.....

No, you cook for yourself.

[Mace]

Only a few comments from me:

Trip Leader, you nominate the departure time.  Get your vehicle in place to depart  15 minutes beforehand. On the way, be firm but polite, tell people how long you intend to stay and what you are doing at the previous stop.  Do a trip note so everyone knows whats happening for the day/week.  Spell it out so no one can/should complain.  Communicate.  Build in a little slack for unplanned stops.

Food, be self sufficient, unless you are a large family group and have mapped everything out before hand.  That said, if you end up in 1 place for a while, and, on say a Friday night, night, discuss a group meal for the next evening and see what plays out.  Good idea if the end of the trip is approaching and you want to clean out the pantry.

[crackacoldie]

remember road laws when travelling in convoy, such as in SA, any vehicles whith a combination length of greater than 7.5 metres must leave a gap between them of greater than 66m on a non-road train route and 200m on a road train route, if not planning to overtake the vehicle in front.

[time]

I've led a number of longer Club trips with a number of different personalities (from Alpha males to Zeta females!)

As mentioned above the only way to keep everyone happy is for everyone to know exactly what is happening or going to happen.  For the longer trips I have meetings (a BBQ is a good way to do this) with all participants weeks ahead and decide the itinerary and who will carry what "group" spares etc.  Everyone has a written itinerary before we head off, and I decide at each evening briefing when we will depart the next day.  For stops along the way, either morning or afternoon tea or sightseeing a departure time is given when we stop.  Having said all that nothing is set in concrete, circumstances (weather, road conditions, breakdowns etc) may change plans.  If there is a major change it is discussed with the group and a group decision is made, if it is a minor change then I make the decision.

Nothing will spoil a trip quicker than inconsiderate fellow travelers who think the trip revolves around them and their needs.  Be clear about what your plans are and what is expected of the group and above all enjoy yourself.

[Toy pradopetty]

I also agree with both above comments. Being self sufficient is the first rule of going camping in my books but it doesn't mean you cannot share a meal at some stage of the trip. Time allocation is the task of trip leader and should be adhered to. There is no need to be nasty or anything but in the same time explain if necessary that that's the way you planned the trip and if it isn't followed then the group will miss out as time ran out. Best of all have fun ( that's everyone) and the trip will be successful.
Cheers
Frank

[LB]

What about meal times, it is suggested to take in turns cooking meals.....hmm once again we are a Family of 5 and that alone takes some feeding let alone cooking for everyone else. I just dont see it being feasible. Sure we could do the vegies while another family does the meat or something along those lines but I just think its best to look after your own meals??

I have not had experience with this on a tour, but every Easter we go camping with a number of other families and we share the cooking. Families a paired up to make numbers similar and each cook for one night. Where this can be a fun way of doing it, as the number of families have increased so have the dietry restrictions. We are starting to lean towards every man for themselves from now on. Maybe just share the marshmellows!

LB

[Bird]

Also remember if theres kids, some may travel well, others may not. But find out before hand. if theres kids that havent done long days on the trip before, good luck.
If theres heaps of chicks with jellybean sized bladders on the trip, plan for 30-40 squirt stops per day..

If everyone is good with it, I usually plan to do big days to get to the camping location, then relax..

Remember, every trip will be different.
I've run a dozen + club trips to Robe and more to the High Country every one has been different due to variables.

[DannyG]

The whole thing is quite stressful LOL Like I said, if were just Family and my close friends it would be easy...we would work as a team and do everything my way! But as it turns out friends of friends are now showing an interest so i am now starting to feel an obligation to organise things in a more regimented manner.

Around 700 kays is the biggest day and that is on an easy long run down a highway. Most of the other days are under 500. There are only around 6-8 overnighters out of 40 odd nights so most of it is quite relaxed and cruisy.

The biggest moving goal post is the fact that i am not committing to any particular locations to camp on the overnighters. A lot of the unknown is how long it will take to do sight seeing while travelling to destinations and just how long it will take to get the kays done.
I wont travel too much after 3pm if i can help it so that dictates most of the camping locations on the overnighters.

I started roughly planning this trip 12 months before the due date and it has grown to such an extent that I have needed the for 12 months and some to get it all organised......I love it

[Matto]

I think everyone's already covered the big points for you Danny. I pretty much agree with them all.

The key message from me is something the others have already touched on - make sure everyone knows "the rules" well in advance so there's no surprises. I like time's idea of having a BBQ 3-4 weeks before to introduce everyone and go over the rules. As Lost says - get the ground rules down early and everyone knows where they stand. You can do this nicely whilst still remaining quite firm. People won't think you're a Nazi, they'll just think that you're well organised and have considered it all.

If we go with a couple of good friends, then we'll do shared meals, etc. But with bigger groups, or if there's people I don't know well then I prefer just to take care of our own meals. If I were you, I wouldn't be organising any group dinners, it's just too much added stress. The more people involved, the more stress. Why do it to yourself.

With good prep (and it sounds like you've got really good prep) then big group trips can be a whole lot of fun.

Good luck!
Matto
(who's thinking of coming along too now - it sounds like you've got a good itinerary planned!)

[krisandkev]

Maybe a bit off topic, but I don’t think it is an easy exercise travelling in a group.  We have travelled alone, travelled a short time with others and done a full trip with others.  One thing we leant is that we do not think we are the group travelling type.  We really enjoy having no real plans and stopping when we like, taking as long as we like to pack up etc.  So having strict rules before people commit to starting a group trip sounds a very good idea, and perhaps make it known that it is not everyone’s cup of tea and anyone can drop out either before the trip, or during it.  The trip can ruin friendships and that is the last thing you would want.  I have seen it happen.
Perhaps also allow for free days.  I mean have days where you pick a place to meet with no time lines, except for the day, eg meet at so and so camp ground at 6pm?  The only problem could be that if a couple do not turn up what does that mean, assuming there is no way to communicate with them.  Have they broken down, had an accident etc?
And please when travelling in a group make sure etiquette also means respect for other travellers.  We have come across some very inconsiderate tag-a-long groups!
Kevin

[Bird]

The whole thing is quite stressful LOL Like I said, if were just Family and my close friends it would be easy...we would work as a team and do everything my way! But as it turns out friends of friends are now showing an interest so i am now starting to feel an obligation to organise things in a more regimented manner.

Dont stress about ****. Make it as though this is your holiday and they are coming with YOU... You dont have to please everyone, cause you'll give yourself ulsers doing that. Dont be afraid to say "sorry mate either get your Shit sorted and change your attitude, or piss off"...

To make things simple, the way we have done it in the past is have a basic route you wanna do.
EG: http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=3773.msg51935#msg51935

Then send an email to all starters with the route.
"This is the route we are taking. Find some things along the way you want to see.
We can discuss this at our BBQ pre trip meeting, remember though, we wont get to see everything, but we will do our best."

Then get them to send you their "wishes" and start seeing what you think you can do.

Dont forget, you dont all have to go to the same places every time.
If someone wants to see the Camel Trek on day 5, and you wanna see the Big Boobies that day, instead say
"We are camping at the XYZ Campsite tonight, meet you there"

You will also need "Rest days" or "do nothing" days... laundry, servicing, and just kids not being in the car for another 8 hours.

Around 700 kays is the biggest day and that is on an easy long run down a highway. Most of the other days are under 500. There are only around 6-8 overnighters out of 40 odd nights so most of it is quite relaxed and cruisy.

Nice.. Remember on that 500klm stretch, you may find 5-10 sets of ruins you want to look at - 1 hour each and your plans are up the wazoo..

The biggest moving goal post is the fact that i am not committing to any particular locations to camp on the overnighters.

And dont. Thats part of it. You may love the place on night 3 and wanna spend morte time there, so that will stuff your whole trip. Just have a route, and take it as it comes. Always have a Plan B, C, D and E incase of breakdowns.

I started roughly planning this trip 12 months before the due date and it has grown to such an extent that I have needed the for 12 months and some to get it all organised......I love it

Have your first BBQ meeting soon. Put the feelers out to who is serious in coming.

Limit the number of starters - 4-6 is a good number, more people you can start getting dragged back and that can be when people dont get on, and your holiday is ****ed.

Another good idea is have a practice weekend trip month or so before departure on the big trip with ALL starters, get them to bring EVERYTHING they plan on taking on the long trip. Then see what is missing, what they don't need and who doesnt get on with who.


Mate, all I can say is dont stress.

[McGirr]

The main thing is to explain that its everyones holiday. They can do what they want regarding the time table and schedule. Just let you know as some people drive slower than others.

Some may want to break up into smaller groups and leave a little later each morning if they have kids.

I would advise all traveller's the itinerary and let them decide.  When I did the Cape this year, members went in different directions but knew the stop over that night. Some went in different groups and camped in different locations. 

Next year with the Gulf trip, members will be advised where we will be stopping that afternoon and they can take as long as they like and travel with who ever they like. It takes the pressure of the organiser. If people wish to stay longer in places thats up to them. As mentioned its their holiday you are just helping them plan it.

Keep the organising simple. just arrange the trip and itinerary and let everyone else organise themselves. Its the unplaned cook ups and afternnon drinks that make a great trip memorable.   

Mark

[Owie]

My number 1 group trip rule is; the number of vehicles in the group.

I aim for no more than 4, maybe stretch it out to 6 depending on who and where the trip is.
More than 6 and the whole thing slows down, just to take off and not be in dust means 15mins, to line up and get fuel takes time, to stop at a bakery and grab a snack, then to find a suitable camp area for a large group.  If you have a fire you have to cut 2cubic meters of wood or sit so far back you can only see the glow.

-Self cater
-Group nibbles at happy hour
-Group tools (welding, sat phone, bead breaking gear etc).
-Set times (not regimented but eg departing at 9am means 0845-0915, not 10am)
-A bit of etiquette, if everyone else has packed up.....get a move on
-Convoy procedure. Make sure the person in front waits at the turn off, or tells the person behind (and it is acknowledged).
-Not everyone will want to look at every landmark, so as long as there are set meeting places and times the group may reconvene at predetermined points, and not always be a procession.

Not everyone will understand the etiquette, it's not rude to make it clear, but do it before or at the start and cover the lot.

[MR MAC GU]

When we do trips in groups, sometimes we share the cooking. Ie. 1 family cooks one night, the next family cooks the next night and so on,

This works well as you don't have to cook every night and you don't tend to carry as much food as you buy bulk for the meal you are doing. By doing this you won't be carrying bits and pieces for several meals.

Although it is a task when you cook it's rewarded by (in our case) 5 or 6 nights of no cooking.

In my opinion it works a treat and you get a great variety of meals.


Sent from Behind you...BOO

[ozbogwam]

The big thing is to ensure that as a large group you need to be aware of other groups/individuals.

If you are at a site before others make sure you don't just take over the place.

Nothing worse than turning up somewhere and a big group have vehicles parked everywhere and taking up all the available space because they have spread themselves out. Not expecting you to camp on top of each other but to just be conscious of others.

On group trips we cater for ourselves but on one night have a group meal, whether we share the cooking or just organize to all have a BBQ at the same time etc

Main thing is to relax and go with the flow, if you find a good area stay longer

[krisandkev]

Last time we were travelling with others one had a dream pot and would make dumplings in golden syrup, which they would share at tea, they even had the custard.... Yummmmmmmmmmmmmm 

We made a large stew in our camp oven another night and shared that.   It does bring everyone together and finishes off a great day.  That and a few drinks. 

Kevin

[DannyG]

Gents some bloody great replies, i have taken a lot from them thank you.

Like all trips/events you always have people 'keen as' but when push comes to shove you usually end up with a lot less.

To be honest we are the sort of people that like to do things alone. We prefer to do our own thing, stop when we want, stay longer if we want and pretty much only worry about ourselves....sounds selfish but thats the truth of the matter.

But in saying that we also like socialising with family and friends...in small doses And to have some of them share a part of this trip with us is something we are really looking forward to.

One thing that is clear, it is our trip. We have planned it, we have researched it and we are dictating how it is going to pan out. And everyone that is coming knows this and for the most part they have all stated they are more than happy to go with the flow and simply do whatever we decide to do.

Another aspect of the trip and this part I am unsure of yet and this is the main reason I started this thread. But a group of 2-4 4WD's asked me if they could tag along for the first 4-5 days and then they are going in a totally different direction. So that group is also happy to do as we do so long as they arrive at their destination within 5 days they will be happy. So that part is easy, albeit they may slow us up a bit but for the first 5 days we are doing overnighters and just going to end up where ever we end up each day, we have 5 days to do 2000 kays so it will be nice and relaxed touring and site seeing but in saying that we also need to keep the show on the road to a certain extent.

Once they leave we are only left with a small group and they are family and maybe some friends, and once again they are happy to do as we do. From then on we are doing a lot of 3 and 4 night stays so the holiday pretty much becomes each families individual holiday. Everyone is free to do as they please or tag along with us if they wish. I have no doubt we will all be together after tea and have a drink or 3 each night and it may turn out where we all do the same things everyday, either way they know it is each family to their own. We are all going to stay at the same places for the extended stays though.

That covers the first 3 weeks but for the last 3 weeks I think we are going to be back on our own (and by that time will probably be happy to be!) or may meet up some family at the end depending how it pans out. One family member has a camper that is not really designed for too many rough roads so during the whole trip they may be taking different routes and meeting up with us when they can, they are well travelled so I am sure they will be fine.

Thanks very much for all your help, I think I have learnt enough to be able to make sure everyone has a good time

[fabulous]

The only thing I would add is that perhaps do a weekend away with all on the trip - see if you all get along, people have different personalities and you can see them in a different light when spending most of the day and night with them.  Ensure they are people you can travel with.

This will also give you a chance as a trip leader how long people take to set up / pack up, and see if they can work to a time frame etc.

You can also see who takes far too much gear, and those to assume they can use everyone elses gear.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Bird]

The only thing I would add is that perhaps do a weekend away with all on the trip - see if you all get along, people have different personalities and you can see them in a different light when spending most of the day and night with them.  Ensure they are people you can travel with.

This will also give you a chance as a trip leader how long people take to set up / pack up, and see if they can work to a time frame etc.

You can also see who takes far too much gear, and those to assume they can use everyone elses gear.

Just my 2 cents worth.

that was spent earlier...

Hows things at home, got ya new roofrack yet?

[dazzler]

A few years ago my brothers father and a group of his vietnam vet mates and wives planned a trip around oz.

They all had serious post traumatic stress disorder (well to be blunt they were all as mad as meat axes)

One fella wanted to travel at 20k's under the limit and always in the middle of the pack.

They had a 'fun' trip   

[Bird]

A few years ago my brothers father and a group of his vietnam vet mates and wives planned a trip around oz.

They all had serious post traumatic stress disorder (well to be blunt they were all as mad as meat axes)

One fella wanted to travel at 20k's under the limit and always in the middle of the pack.
They had a 'fun' trip   

I ran a club trip to Murray Sunset one year, and DDR was Tail End..

There was one bloke that thought he needed low 2nd everywhere offroad - even the main dirt roads where others were in high 4th. I kept getting calls from Dan saying things like Ive gotta settle the kids, I've gotta settle the fridge, I've gotta noise to check, I've gotta take a p, I've gotta get a drink, and then "I've gotta <5second pause> something" was the last call.. he couldnt stand it so kept stopping for 5-10 mins so he could drive normally, then he would catch up to the bloke again... Day 2 Dan said he wanted to lead... took me 10 mins to realise why...

[DannyG]

Yeh I think having some mates tag a long for a few days and some family tag along for a few more is one thing but to do an epic trip with so many unknowns of the human variety is not something Id entertain.

I have done a lot of dirt bike riding trips in the past and some of them were absolute classics for all the wrong reasons and it was all to do with people 'changing' after a few drinks. I have to admit sitting back and watching some of the things that I have seen was entertaining!