Insurance repairs - how pedantic do you get?

[Matto]

Hi crew,

I expect this to get a reasonably wide gamut of responses, but I hope we can keep it civil. I'm after general feedback about how particular people are around body shop repairs, in particular insurance jobs.

We've just picked up the Pathy after it's little touch-up with a Pulsar a couple of weeks back. J was stopped at the lights, and the Pulsar took off straight into the back of the 4WD. Result - a couple of scrapes of paint off our bumper, and a written off Pulsar. Everyone involved was OK, which is the main thing.

Our insurer, Suncorp, has been really, really good. Can't speak highly enough of them. They bought us straight in, good communication, took care of everything. Their assessor called us, told us that it looked to be a big hit and they weren't going to muck around with the towbar - it would get replaced straight away. We asked what they'd replace it with and were told that since it's currently got an ARB HD towbar fitted, that's what they would put back on. I said that would be perfect - that's the one we put on it, that's the one we wanted, I'd be happiest with a new one the same back on. They would have the plastic bumper repaired and repainted (that was fine too - it wasn't more than a couple of scratches), and would check underneath the car where the towbar bolts on to make sure that the actual body of the car was straight and hadn't been bent by the force of the collision. This was my biggest concern.

So far, nothing to complain about.

Picked the car up today, and the first thing that jumps out is that it's got a Trailboss towbar on it. Asked the guy at the body shop about it "yup - brand new towbar - we got that one from TJM". They've repaired and repainted the bumper (it looks good), but they've painted it on the car - there's overspray all over the (still pretty much brand new) tyres. The wheel arch flares, where they've been fitted back up, aren't lined up to the car and aren't snug up. The panel gaps between the bumper and the body of the car aren't right / uniform.

Individually, they're pretty minor things. But all up, it's just left me with a bit of a sour taste. On one hand, a towbar is a towbar is a towbar - you hook a trailer up to it and so long as it doesn't fall off, then it's all good. But all the way along, we'd been promised one thing, only to then find out that it had something different fitted, with no explanation given. And while the paint on the bumper looks good, the fact that the flares don't match up and that it obviously hasn't been actually taken off and had it's mounting spots fixed up / aligned to the body of the car makes me wonder if they have checked any of the other potentially bent bits of the car.

My plan is to think about it over night, and check the specs of the TJM Trailboss tow bar against the ARB bar we had. I'm expecting them to be identical, but if they're not then it'll be a convenient excuse. I'm going to talk to Suncorp anyway, just to let them know that the car was delivered with a different towbar to what we were told, just in case they had specifically instructed the shop to fit the ARB bar, and are unaware that it doesn't have the right one. At the moment though I'm undecided as to how far I should have my Cranky Voice dialed up when I do speak to them, and whether it's worth an argument or not.

So my question to you, internet, is am I being too pedantic about panel gaps and wrong-branded tow bars? I'm a reasonably particular person, especially about my vehicles, is this one of those situations where I just need to accept that "good enough" is, in fact, good enough?

Thanks!
Matto

[D4D]

I would not have accepted the car and would have called the insurance co. from the panel beaters to have them rectify the highlighted problems.

[spargo]

I would not have accepted the car and would have called the insurance co. from the panel beaters to have them rectify the highlighted problems.

same here.. sorry

[CRW]

Hi Matto

Sorry to hear of the dramas.  One could reasonably expect the car to be returned to you in the same, if not better condition than before the accident.  These guys have quoted on a job and, one would expect getting paid reasonably to do a good job.  If its not up to your satisfaction then you have every right to complain.  the old saying is you get more flies with Honey, keep the cranky voice in the back pocket until you really need it, I suppose just explain your concerns to the Insurance company in a calm and reasonable way and see where it takes you, but also don't forget at the end of the day you are the customer and you have paid for a reasonable outcome, if you don't get it then reach for the voice.

Good luck mate and I would really check out the Tow bar, because there are towbars and there are towbars and all have different ratings.

[jetcrew]

My dad had panel shop for years.

Ask for the repair quote and details .

I could almost guarantee that the panel shop charged suncorp for remove and refit bumpber bar ,check price difference on towbars,once again I bet suncorp paid for ARB.

Panel shops get royally screwed by insurance compaines driving down the prices of labour. so to still make a quid they cut coners and it's the customer who wears the crap for it.

by charging for remove and refitt bumper probably 45mins each way =1.5 hrs $75.00 and painting the bumper on car it is $75.00 in there pocket and makes up for the low labour price.

This has been going on since I was a little boy and still does today.

Like I said before shooting the panel shop check what suncorp paid for ,if the quote has remove and refitt on bumper then cut sick ,likewise if the quote was ARB then demand it.

It's your car and you don't get to round your premium down by 5c when it's  $1000.05 per year try sending them $1000.00 neat and see what happens .


I have had my car back to panel shop 4 times in relation to "lifetime Warranty"and they even had to repaint it agian.

I know all the panel shop owners will cry foul and say they need to do it to stay viable. But why should you have to wear the cost.

Jetcrew

[MC 031]

I totally agree.....no way I would have accepted substituted items without consultation for starters.  

That would also include the over spray and bodgey work practices.

Stand your ground Matto.....it is your right.

[Burnsy]

If you have already collected the car call Suncorp, tell them you are not happy and you want an assessor to check it.  If it is still at the shop then leave it there and call them.  I agree it should be better than iit went it, I would expect it returned to factory clearances around the pannels and a paint job that is equal o factory.

[V8TL8]

Hi Matto, no not good enough.

Had a mishap with my Patrol rear door last year, SGIO was great.
Thing is, I took the car to the Panel shop myself and wanted to know exactly what they were going to do.
Even showed them the Pikkies I took.
Phoned SGIO and asked exactly what was going to happen.
Just because you are insured does not mean you should have to accept a job you are not happy with.

I had already decided to bypass the insurance if it all sounded sus.

In the end I got a new door (not just panel beaten) properly sprayed. original rubbers and glass and fitments and I was a happy chappy.

How do I know they did what they said they would: a few cunningly placed centre punch marks around the place and i know exactly what they replaced.

Hope you can get this sorted.

[Gunna Do]

If you were told you were getting an ARB HD tow bar, then that is what you should have got, regardless of whether the specs on the Trailboss one matches up.

The panel gaps would annoy me, and I believe should be rectified by the repairer.

Paint on the tyres, maybe this isn't so bad and could be put up with, if all the rest is rectified.

[Burnsy]

Paint on the tyres, maybe this isn't so bad and could be put up with.

I disagree as if they were to lazy to mask off properly I would not have much faith in anything else they did. 

[Wandering Tassie]

Matto, I would be taking it straight back to the panel shop.
It should be repaired to a new condition with the correct parts supplied.

Trevor

[Matto]

Hi crew,

Well, it sounds like everyone is pretty much in agreement. There's been some good advice here already, thanks all for your input.

Talking to Suncorp when they initially accepted the vehicle, they told us that when we pick it up if we are not satisfied for any reason, to bring the vehicle back to the assessment centre and we review it there with the assessor instead of dealing with the panel shop. That's probably the main reason I accepted the car then and there - I wanted to have the chance to speak to Suncorp and find out what they had told the panel shop, and to cross the vehicle back off with the original assessor to make sure it was what he was expecting.

Plus I'm feeling crook today, and just wasn't mentally up to having an argument in the carpark with the panel shop rep who could actually fix the problem or at least know that I'm not happy with the job they did. Yay for passive-aggressiveness!  

To be honest, we simply pulled up in the car park and were looking at the car. The guy came out, explained what they had done, handed us the keys, said it had a lifetime warranty and then his phone rang so he went to answer it. We didn't sign anything - he didn't even ask us our names. The best thing is that when he rang to let us know the car was ready, I told him that we probably wouldn't be able to get down there today and it would probably be tomorrow before we could pick the car up. I'm considering asking a mate to drive down there tomorrow, walk into the office and say "Hi, I'm Matt, here to pick up the white Pathfinder that you called me about yesterday?". See what colour his underpants turn then.

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. Couple of quick shout-outs:

Carl - I'll check the towbars tonight, and be sure to have my Happy Voice on tomorrow! You can tell I've done my conflict resolution training. (My problem is actually that I don't use the Cranky Voice enough, and hence end up accepting sub-standard work...)

Jetcrew - Thanks for the insight into how the system works. It makes a lot of sense. I don't doubt that the insurers drive a hard deal on the panel shop owners. But you make a good point - it doesn't excuse sub-standard work or passing the buck onto the customer. I'll make sure to speak to the assessor tomorrow and ask to see the repair quote.

Suncorp have been very good so far - I expect they will be more than happy to sit down and sort something out tomorrow.

Thanks team - I'll let you know how we get on. Hopefully good news, even if it means being out of the car for another week.
Matto

[cancan]

Go back to suncorp and bring up your concerns with the assessor. He will follow them up.

[FZJ]

Hi matto ,
Have to agree with most of the above.I was a spray painter in various good quality panel  shops ( before I got out of the trade) and if I ever left over spray on anything my boss would remove any chance of me reproducing.With the gear that is available now to tradesman its not really acceptable.One of the first 2 things I look for when eyeing up a new(second hand) vehicle is overspray and even gaps.
good luck

[Kit_e_kat9]

Okay, first things first.  It's not your insurer SUNCORP paying this bill ... it's the insurance company of the yobbo in the other vehicle. 

You have rights.  Use them.

ARB for TJM - not acceptable
overspray - not acceptable
shortcuts - not acceptable

It devalues your car further than before the "event".  Gee I really hope you got that assessors "yes it's all under control" in writing ... then there are no issues with "no I didn't say that".

Good Luck.
Kit_e

[Pauly]

Basically insurance should be like for like.

I wouldnt accept a tjm for an Arb, same specs isnt the point. I have this reguarly with my clients when they need to claim on shutters. Accesors just try for cheapest price but like I say to my clients YOU chose my shutters for x reason and you chose me if your still happy with those choices then tell the insurance co because all shutters are not the same as all shutter companies are not the same, we havent had a customer yet told they have to accept an inferer product or company.

Simple speak to Suncorp let the accessor see it and he will decide what is and isnt acceptable. TJM and ARB might be similar in specs but its pretty well acepted ARB are better, however true or false that might be.

[Bill]

Matto,
I agree with everyone here in saying dont accept it.
Also if you had the work done in Cairns could you pm me the shop name.
Same thing happened to Morag in her little Barina last week so we now need to get quotes.
I would rather NOT go to the panel beather that you went to...
Bill and Morag

[Matto]

Hi team,

The plot thickens. Have spoken to people this morning, and discovered:

The panel shop quoted on a TJM towbar, and the assessor accepted that quote. So that absolves the panel shop of any responsibility there. Tried talking the assessor around on the ARB vs TJM decision, but he stood his ground better than I stood mine. The thrust of my argument was that my last talk with him was they had said we would be getting another ARB bar, which was what we wanted, and that's not what was delivered in the end. His point was is doesn't matter - they're all made from the same factory, the only difference is that they can source TJM ones quicker.

I'm undecided as to whether I want to have a fight about this one or not. Pauly - you talk a lot of sense though. That's good advice.

I've spoken to the panel shop - they were quite happy for me to bring the car back and have a talk to them about the panel misalignment and such, so I'm going to run it down at lunch time. That wasn't a problem, we'll see how things go when I get there. Give them a chance to make good.

Bill - PM sent!

We'll see.

Thanks guys and girls!
Matto

[D4D]

Time for the insurance ombudsman http://www.fos.org.au

[Matto]

OK, so as it turns out, I'm an idiot.

Dropped the car back down to the panel shop, and discussed the areas of my concern with the manager. He's more than happy to take a look at them for us. I've left the vehicle with them for the weekend since I'm out of town tomorrow, so they may as well hang onto it. We'll see how we go next week. He was more than happy to address the concerns though, which is nice.

As for the towbar, well. Earlier this morning I'd rung back our assessor and left a rather *assertive* message for him, advising him that I'd come to a decision that I was not happy to accept the substituted towbar, that it was not what was originally fitted to the vehicle, it was not the brand that we had chosen and paid for ourselves, and that it was not what we had discussed with them and been promised would have been fitted. I advised them that we would be taking the car to the body shop this afternoon, and while it was there could they arrange for the correct tow bar to be ordered and fitted as originally agreed.

I have not heard back from them yet.

When down at the panel shop though, talking to the manager he mentioned something about the towbar. So I laid the story out for him, and let him know that I wasn't cranky at them for fitting the towbar that they had been asked to fit, I was cranky at our people for telling them to fit a different one than they had promised us they would. This is where it gets annoying. The manager says "That's the thing - I'm sure this one is the exact same one - they asked me to quote on the same one, so I got the details off your original one, and rang around to get quotes. It didn't say ARB on it anywhere? We've still got the original one in the bin, let's go check it out."

So over to the bin we went, and out came the towbar. I know it's the same one because I'd made a couple of changes to it, and it had a couple of bits of silver paint on it. IE, not a con job at all - definitely the exact same bar. Except it's missing the ARB trim piece around the tongue receiver. We couldn't find it anywhere - my guess is that it must have actually come adrift in the actual impact of the accident, and I just hadn't noticed. What the old bar DID have, that I didn't know about till just now, is a compliance plate on the bottom of it that clearly shows that it's a TrailBoss towbar.

IE, exactly the same as what they've fitted up. It's just come from TJM instead of ARB, and doesn't have the ARB bumper piece around the tongue receiver.

So now I'm waiting on our assessor to call me back, so I can explain the situation to him and apologise profusely. Granted, there's been assumptions made on both sides, but I should have handled the situation better myself.

So the assessor's probably putting off calling me back because now I've left two messages for him to call me, and a cranky message with his staff, so he probably has no inclination to talk to me at all just yet. If he doesn't get back to me, I might send a bunch of roses around to the centre, something like that, get back on his good side .

Thanks for the advice through this process though guys - it's been a learning experience to say the least! I've gone from being cranky at everyone else to being cranky at myself. Not sure why this always happens, but it's a fair bet that whenever I actually get provoked enough to arc up and make a stand, it usually ends up backfiring and I'm left standing around with copious quantities of egg on my face. Oh well - just part of life I guess! I just hope that Suncorp haven't gone ahead and ordered an ARB towbar on special delivery to get here quickly just to keep us happy. THAT would be terrible...

Thanks!
Matto

[Crazy Dog]

Dear KRANKY MATTO...

ROFPML...

I know exactly how you feel...Bit like this I guess..see below.

RU and J likely to be coming to G/Gorge?


Grrr!!!

[D4D]

FYI - ARB towbars are branded 'TowMaster'

[crispy]

Hi matto bummer about the accident that was a really nice looking vehicle ,to be honest i would have ben pissed to the max ,as you know i have just had a bingle where a guy backed into me with his trailer ,we sorted it out without insurance companies involment but it may have come to this if the guy had not been so honest ,anyway i was really happy with my work you could not even tell where the dings were ,now on your story i would get the assesor out to look at it and explain that this is not acceptable they might be only small things but it is your money that pays the insurance ,i dont think the insurance company would be very happy either and this company may lose them as a preffered repairer , insurance work attains for a high percentage of a crash shops work if they lose a big cxlient like suncorp they might be stuffed ,why they would not take the bar of iis beyond me  or at least mask up surrounding areas ,almost sounds like an appy job (apprentice) and now come on mate towbars aint towbars check the species as you have said why would you specify a arb bar and then fit a tjm ,ahh cost make a few bucks maybe , overspray and the like may seem  little thing but it is about proffesionalism and reputation  see what suncorp have to say and adjust volume from there
crispy

[dno]

Last year we had a accident car hit a roo, no worry's got insurance, pick shop get repair done go to pick up car and the first thing i said to the bloke, what a sh@t job your've done . The car is 10 year old never been in an accident come's here and now look's like a cheapo car yard job. The repair it's self was allright but they never blended the repair to the existing paint proply. had to go back for a re paint i'm still not happy but learning to live with it .. Have come up with the idear of getting some cheapo sticker's made up, i see a guy that dose them at one of the rodeo's there going to say THIS CAR IS A VICTIM OF ----- PANEL'S and am going to drive past said panel shop and put one on there window. maybe they might take a little bit more pride in there work. The said shop is a big shop that deal's with all leading insurer's and i asked him about the standard of work and he said he was happy so i told him i hope you ring me for a job oneday if that's the case..