Post by: MarkGU on March 29, 2020, 08:27:03 AM
We cant afford to let China hold us to ransom again in the future by relying on everything coming in from them.
Take the time to check labels and buy the good with the Australian Made kangaroo logo on them.
Post by: Bird on March 29, 2020, 08:31:17 AM
Post by: silverfox1111 on March 29, 2020, 08:36:52 AM
Next time your in a supermarket have a look at where everything is made. Tuna, muesli bars, cereal, fruit servings & heaps of other products that you would expect to be made here are not.
Silverfox
Post by: MarkGU on March 29, 2020, 08:37:18 AM
The problem is nothing is made in australia anymore... Its a great idea, just cant see it getting past our overlords.What about food items for a start?
Buy only Aussie food stuffs and leave the china crap on the shelves.
The " overlords" can't dictate to us what we buy so why is that an issue?
Post by: MarkGU on March 29, 2020, 08:38:35 AM
I agree with the buy Australian drive & always do it when I can, but unless the big supermarket chains prioritise Australian goods it's going to be hard.Check down the bottom of the shelves......that's where super markets hide the Aussie brands.
Next time your in a supermarket have a look at where everything is made. Tuna, muesli bars, cereal, fruit servings & heaps of other products that you would expect to be made here are not.
Silverfox
Post by: briann532 on March 29, 2020, 09:34:35 AM
https://www.facebook.com/groups/455372111839513/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/455372111839513/)
The usual lot of extreme w-anchors, but generally some good stuff.
Post by: raider on March 29, 2020, 09:55:54 AM
I agree with the buy Australian drive & always do it when I can, but unless the big supermarket chains prioritise Australian goods it's going to be hard.
Next time your in a supermarket have a look at where everything is made. Tuna, muesli bars, cereal, fruit servings & heaps of other products that you would expect to be made here are not.
Silverfox
Hey, Uncle Toby's, still hanging in there, up here on the Border.
Post by: Fizzie on March 29, 2020, 09:56:24 AM
The " overlords" can't dictate to us what we buy so why is that an issue?
No they can't order us to only buy their stuff, but they have a huge influence on what is actually on the shelf :'(
Post by: Spada on March 29, 2020, 10:45:29 AM
Post by: Paddler Ed on March 29, 2020, 10:53:16 AM
I'm on this facebook page.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/455372111839513/ (https://www.facebook.com/groups/455372111839513/)
The usual lot of extreme w-anchors, but generally some good stuff.
Just had a quick look - and it seemed much more restrained than I was expecting!
There's some interesting points in there, particularly things like "why can't I get Australian tinned pineapple any longer" and the ilk; a lot of the time it's because they just aren't grown any longer in those areas for any number of reasons. Quite often (in the case of tropical fruits) there's been one too many cylcones through, and that's damaged the plantations. Alternatively, it's a high cost product to grow and harvest but a low value product at sale time; the classic example is the Coffs Banana industry. A lot of the plantations are turning to blueberries as a higher value crop with slightly less labour cost to grow. Going to work well until the next cyclone hits QLD and hammers the banana plantations up there.
Also, there's been a good bit of consolidation in the food supply industry as the big players are buying up smaller ones to maintain (and grow) their market share.
Don't forget Akubra hats use imported rabbit fur now (https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2015-07-08/akubra-to-import-rabbit-fur/6603106 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2015-07-08/akubra-to-import-rabbit-fur/6603106))
Post by: gronk on March 29, 2020, 12:18:00 PM
What about food items for a start?
Buy only Aussie food stuffs and leave the china crap on the shelves.
Been tried before. Just like Dick Smith foods......you see a jar of peanut butter for $5.50 and next to it a jar for $4.50...which one does 90% of people buy. Price beats home grown every time.
The horse has already bolted....most aussie companies have either shut up shop or relocated overseas.
Post by: Bird on March 29, 2020, 12:44:10 PM
Quote from: gronk
The horse has already bolted....most aussie companies have either shut up shop or relocated overseas.sadly thats how I feel.. if it hasnt bolted, its been bought out for nothing by overseas companies and allowed to happen by Gov Co.
Post by: rossm on March 29, 2020, 01:05:24 PM
sadly thats how I feel.. if it hasnt bolted, its been bought out for nothing by overseas companies and allowed to happen by Gov Co.
I suppose if you can't buy Australian made maybe at least buy from Australian companies.
As far as groceries go, that rules out Aldi. Not sure about the share register of Coles and Woolworths but a local independent grocer should pass that test.
The beer industry is dominated by overseas companies (even some of the so-called craft brewers are foreign owned) and what about Scotch whiskey?
It's a noble sentiment but sadly a bit late in the game.
Post by: Bigfish on March 29, 2020, 01:12:45 PM
Been tried before. Just like Dick Smith foods......you see a jar of peanut butter for $5.50 and next to it a jar for $4.50...which one does 90% of people buy. Price beats home grown every time.
The horse has already bolted....most aussie companies have either shut up shop or relocated overseas.
That is dead right. How many Australians would be willing to take pay cuts so as the average wage is $45,000 a year? Our labour costs are just so expensive. Plus all our best food is sent overseas. The seafood available to us is way too expensive....fishing licences cost an arm and leg...maybe if govt cut the licence fees to 10% and said that all fish to be sold in Aus!..Sounds good but govt takes a huge tax hit. Most of our rice and wheat is sent overseas as well. Live meat trade should be halted asap. Apart from the shocking treatment of our cattle we are also building up asians cattle industry. No manufacturing..once again our labour costs are too high. Its great living at a decent standard compared to many countries but we pay the price. Globalisation , hopefully, will take a hit and if ever we get a govt that is really interested in the country and its people then one day we will look after our farmers, workers, disadvantaged and each other a whole lot better. Capitalism isnt working and maybe, just maybe, after this virus runs its course we might see a better way of doing things and prioritise what is of most importance to us as a country..
Post by: Gazza00 on March 29, 2020, 01:15:30 PM
https://ausveg.com.au/media-releases/horticulture-new-zealand-ceo-publicly-admits-to-importing-vegetables-from-china-and-sending-on-to-australia/ (https://ausveg.com.au/media-releases/horticulture-new-zealand-ceo-publicly-admits-to-importing-vegetables-from-china-and-sending-on-to-australia/)
Post by: MarkGU on March 29, 2020, 01:20:06 PM
Seems like most of you have just given up on Australia. :-X
Wonder how many of the knockers sit behind their keyboards and whinge about China buying up large parcels of land and Aussie businesses?
Do what ever you like well. >:(
Just trying to help get the country going again :-\
Post by: tedota on March 29, 2020, 01:23:13 PM
Post by: Kangaron on March 29, 2020, 01:40:40 PM
I suppose if you can't buy Australian made maybe at least buy from Australian companies.
Like 30 years ago, cheap overseas electrical components/gadgets by the king of making a quick buck, Dick Smith.
Post by: Bigfish on March 29, 2020, 01:50:17 PM
Post by: Steffo1 on March 29, 2020, 01:54:54 PM
I suppose if you can't buy Australian made maybe at least buy from Australian companies.
As far as groceries go, that rules out Aldi. Not sure about the share register of Coles and Woolworths but a local independent grocer should pass that test.
The beer industry is dominated by overseas companies (even some of the so-called craft brewers are foreign owned) and what about Scotch whiskey?
It's a noble sentiment but sadly a bit late in the game.
Besides the fact that I enjoy it, it's one of the reasons I drink Coopers. It's still family owned.
There are still a few areas where buying Australian isn't all that difficult, really.
We should be looking at restarting somewhere. If the horse has bolted, then shut the bloody gate and buy another horse!
Post by: paceman on March 29, 2020, 01:57:50 PM
Capitalism isnt working and maybe, just maybe, after this virus runs its course we might see a better way of doing things and prioritise what is of most importance to us as a country..
capitalism isn't working?? capitalism/free market is the reason we have a chance in problems like this...
socialism is the answer?
righto... do you honestly think anyone other than the elites and the super-rich would have a chance at anything in a socialist economy?
maybe check in with the people of Venezuela and get their thoughts on whether they would prefer capitalism over their current socialist regime...
https://economics21.org/how-socialism-destroyed-venezuela (https://economics21.org/how-socialism-destroyed-venezuela)
Post by: rockrat on March 29, 2020, 02:03:19 PM
As for the rest of our stuff, yep plenty of cheap, consumable stuff is made in China... but we export far more to them than they export to us.
As for retailers they simply sell what we buy!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Fizzie on March 29, 2020, 02:37:48 PM
things like "why can't I get Australian tinned pineapple any longer"
Just had a look, & Golden Circle is still labelled Product of Australia.
As we all know, what that actually means is anyone's guess! ::) >:(
Post by: Fizzie on March 29, 2020, 02:42:22 PM
Well then.
Seems like most of you have just given up on Australia. :-X
Wonder how many of the knockers sit behind their keyboards and whinge about China buying up large parcels of land and Aussie businesses?
Do what ever you like well. >:(
Just trying to help get the country going again :-\
Not at all, Mark!
Agree with you entirely, but ... :'(
I think that we'd all like to buy Oz-made, but how much days is ???
We complain about losing manufacturing, but lot's of us drive Japanese, Korean & so on cars - sure, maybe there's no Oz-made option, but we all vote with our wallets as to what we're going to buy.
Post by: Kangaron on March 29, 2020, 03:30:15 PM
it's one of the reasons I drink Coopers.
Sorry mate, gotta draw the line somewhere. :cheers:
Post by: Steffo1 on March 29, 2020, 03:45:27 PM
Sorry mate, gotta draw the line somewhere. :cheers:
;D >:( ;D >:( ;D
Post by: Steffo1 on March 29, 2020, 03:57:55 PM
Just had a look, & Golden Circle is still labelled Product of Australia.
As we all know, what that actually means is anyone's guess! ::) >:(
Our neighbour is a GC grower. We have a few of our own for self consumption, which are his descendants, so to speak.
Post by: rossm on March 29, 2020, 04:44:29 PM
Well then.
Seems like most of you have just given up on Australia. :-X
Wonder how many of the knockers sit behind their keyboards and whinge about China buying up large parcels of land and Aussie businesses?
Do what ever you like well. >:(
Just trying to help get the country going again :-\
Not giving up on Australia at all. Just a realist.
We provide an awful lot of essentials to other countries. Minerals and gas, food and fibre. The wealth generated by that is substantial and we benefit from it, though not as much as we might as we have a tax system that allows overseas owned corporations to shift profits.
By all means do your best to support local businesses, but I for one don't think I can live in a bubble.
Post by: Bird on March 29, 2020, 04:56:57 PM
I suppose if you can't buy Australian made maybe at least buy from Australian companies.agree all through.. like "australian made" which doesnt mean Shit anymore, as long as it touched the ground in AU its considered made in AU.
As far as groceries go, that rules out Aldi. Not sure about the share register of Coles and Woolworths but a local independent grocer should pass that test.
The beer industry is dominated by overseas companies (even some of the so-called craft brewers are foreign owned) and what about Scotch whiskey?
It's a noble sentiment but sadly a bit late in the game.
HOw do you know what companies are Aussie owned now... I know there wouldnt be many in daily life..
Fuel companies?
Clothing stores?
Food?
Drink?
Automotive?
I guess you can get a house made here...
Post by: Hairs on March 29, 2020, 05:08:00 PM
agree all through.. like "australian made" which doesnt mean Shit anymore, as long as it touched the ground in AU its considered made in AU.There use to be a little booklet(sorry can't remember the name of it) that Woolies/Coles had available(where they sold the trash mags) that listed all the products and what was Australian owned/grown/packaged.
HOw do you know what companies are Aussie owned now... I know there wouldnt be many in daily life..
Fuel companies?
Clothing stores?
Food?
Drink?
Automotive?
I guess you can get a house made here...
Does it still exist or has it been canned?
Maybe the supermarket chains needs to step up?
They want to be seen to be apart of the communitty, hmm here is their chance.
Post by: briann532 on March 29, 2020, 05:29:46 PM
Well then.
Seems like most of you have just given up on Australia. :-X
Wonder how many of the knockers sit behind their keyboards and whinge about China buying up large parcels of land and Aussie businesses?
Do what ever you like well. >:(
Just trying to help get the country going again :-\
Hey Mark, I agree.
I'm certainly no expert and don't even claim to be a good keyboard warrior, but I have a less than expert opinion, I'd like to offer...... :-[ :-[ :-[
No we can't all buy "all Australian" all the time, or use local only or any of the other extremes that judgers seem to post as a yard stick.
What I have done though is committed myself to doing the absolute best I can as often as I can.
I try to use local. I try to buy local and shop local.
When I go grocery shopping I use Aldi. Yes they are German owned and profits go offshore, but if you have a look a lot of the stuff they have is aussie grown or made. So at least some profit goes to a local and it stimulates our economy.
I also made a commitment to make sure all presents I buy for xmas or birthdays are 100% Aussie. It's a tough gig, but I'm proudly doing it.
No we can't be perfect, no we can't always afford Aussie, but if we all commit to trying the best we can make it can work.
I bought a new propeller for my boat last week. Made in Taiwan, but through a company is Queensland. Could't afford an Aussie made stainless stell one, but paid a little bit extra to get this one over an ebay import or 100% offshore profit.
Am I perfect? Hell no. Am I trying - Hell yeah.
I am always supporting local whenever I can and yes it cost a "Little" bit more, but not much.
It also amazes me what you get in return. Local IGA bloke bends over backwards to get what you want. Supports a lot of local sports teams and delivers to people in need for free.
Also gives a lot to the local church for homeless food nights, and nobody knows apparently (but we all do!)
He lent his car to a dad who's car broke down while his wife was in hospital so he could still work and go see her. So yes, his chips are 40c more, but I don't care.
Overall the balance to the community is a huge bonus.
So in a nutshell - Perfect - No. trying - Yes.
If we all did it, we could,,,, ummmmmm what was is Trump said - Make
Post by: gronk on March 29, 2020, 05:34:52 PM
Just had a look, & Golden Circle is still labelled Product of Australia.
As we all know, what that actually means is anyone's guess! ::) >:(
If you have a close look, depends on the product. Some is aussie made and some are NZ/ Thailand made.
Post by: MarkGU on March 29, 2020, 05:41:43 PM
Hey Mark, I agree.Great post Briann532. See, thats what im talking about.I completely understand one cant buy 100 % Aussie made stuff all of the time, BUT, we should be buying Aussie made stuff where we can.Glad at least one swagger is trying :laugh: .Every journey begins with the first step...........
I'm certainly no expert and don't even claim to be a good keyboard warrior, but I have a less than expert opinion, I'd like to offer...... :-[ :-[ :-[
No we can't all buy "all Australian" all the time, or use local only or any of the other extremes that judgers seem to post as a yard stick.
What I have done though is committed myself to doing the absolute best I can as often as I can.
I try to use local. I try to buy local and shop local.
When I go grocery shopping I use Aldi. Yes they are German owned and profits go offshore, but if you have a look a lot of the stuff they have is aussie grown or made. So at least some profit goes to a local and it stimulates our economy.
I also made a commitment to make sure all presents I buy for xmas or birthdays are 100% Aussie. It's a tough gig, but I'm proudly doing it.
No we can't be perfect, no we can't always afford Aussie, but if we all commit to trying the best we can make it can work.
I bought a new propeller for my boat last week. Made in Taiwan, but through a company is Queensland. Could't afford an Aussie made stainless stell one, but paid a little bit extra to get this one over an ebay import or 100% offshore profit.
Am I perfect? Hell no. Am I trying - Hell yeah.
I am always supporting local whenever I can and yes it cost a "Little" bit more, but not much.
It also amazes me what you get in return. Local IGA bloke bends over backwards to get what you want. Supports a lot of local sports teams and delivers to people in need for free.
Also gives a lot to the local church for homeless food nights, and nobody knows apparently (but we all do!)
He lent his car to a dad who's car broke down while his wife was in hospital so he could still work and go see her. So yes, his chips are 40c more, but I don't care.
Overall the balance to the community is a huge bonus.
So in a nutshell - Perfect - No. trying - Yes.
If we all did it, we could,,,, ummmmmm what was is Trump said - MakeAmericaAustralia great again.
Post by: gronk on March 29, 2020, 06:17:59 PM
Great post Briann532. See, thats what im talking about.I completely understand one cant buy 100 % Aussie made stuff all of the time, BUT, we should be buying Aussie made stuff where we can.Glad at least one swagger is trying :laugh: .Every journey begins with the first step...........
I think a lot do their own little bit.
A lot of my canned stuff will be aussie made if I can......Edgell beetroot , Cambells soup......etc, but very hard to find stuff made in Australia.
Fruit and vegies...mostly aussie, but Oranges.....nice navels are rare as hens teeth...have to put up with Egypt or USA ones most of the time, and they are NOT nice.
Post by: Fizzie on March 29, 2020, 08:06:17 PM
nice navels are rare as hens teeth
Dunno about that Gronk ???
See quite a few of them whenever we (used) go down to the beach ;D
Post by: McGirr on March 29, 2020, 08:19:29 PM
Unfortunatly the ship has sailed along time ago regarding buying Australian made.
We have to remember we are living in a technology era. The good old days of living off the sheep’s back are finished. Now I am not being a pessimist, but a realist.
We can try and buy Australian made and encourage Australian companies to build factories but the costs involved are too expensive. Hence companies going off shore to keep costs down. As Australians, our living standards are high, we have been spoilt to the extent where we want the latest and greatest, we need an average wage of at least $50k to $70k a year per person, to live comfortable in a nice house and we can pay for the basic utilities and have some spending money as well. Add 2 kids and people just manage to make ends meet. Regretfully the lifestyle we are used to gets harder and harder and to make ends meet on many occasions. Been though it myself. The amount of disposable money left each week gets smaller and we want bargains or lower priced goods to fulfill our needs.
Being a camping forum, most camping gear is made over seas. Regarding camper trailers, Australian made is close to 3 times the price of imports and this helps people enjoy the camping lifestyle by having a choice of lower priced campers. I have no issues with that.
We are all going through uncharted waters with what is happening not just in Australia but world wide. Non one has ever experienced the lockdowns Australia is in, ever. Businesses that are not essential but are classified as a treat or luxury will suffer the most and some will close for good. We will come out of this but it will take some time to bounce back, a year or even longer. Everyone’s super has suffered and yes we have all lost many many thousands of $$. Yes our super will bounce back but the money lost will never be recouperated.
Now all this will have an impact on our spending in the coming years. Hence Australian made goods will suffer even further due to the slow recovery as people will determine whether to spend the $$ on imports or pay extra on more expensive Australian goods. I expect 90% will go the cheaper imports regretfully to get back to some resemblance of normality prior to the virus.
But, we have an opportunity to change this and push for people to buy Australian made goods and help build our economy but with what we have seen, with the way people have acted over the last couple of months, being extremely selfish and looking after them selves only with no regard for anyone else, we have little chance. I just hope I am wrong.
Now my thoughts on foreign owned assets.
Yes we will always have foreign companies buying businesses, land and Australian assets. Have they been controlled properly, no. We have to consider what foreign companies do we want buying in Australia. Now before we all say none, think again. If some foreign owned companies did not buy in Australia some of the businesses etc would be gone for good. We do not have the population or enough millionaires to buy every big business that is on the market. As mentioned it needs to be regulated a lot better. That is something we cannot control but only our elected Govt. The FIRB laws need to be a lot stricter.
I suppose we need to decide who we are happy to have invest in Australia : China, Japan, America, Russia, Canada, Britain, India etc.
Now here is an example: if you had a large business and it was approved by the Govt for a foreign investor to buy and they offered you incredible money , would you sell to them.
Mark (Isolated)
Post by: Bird on March 29, 2020, 09:53:15 PM
Quote from: McGirr
we have been spoilt to the extent where we want the latest and greatest, we need an average wage of at least $50k to $70k a year per person, to live comfortable in a nice house and we can pay for the basic utilities and have some spending money as well. Add 2 kids and people just manage to make ends meet. \
I think you've been living remote far too long - bout 20yrs. 50k wouldnt do 1 person at all... let alone a mortgage and missus and kids.
Post by: Rodt on March 30, 2020, 06:33:59 AM
Yes the foreign owned make profits but as Mark said if they didn't invest capital then these businesses possibly wouldn't exist as there aren't enough Aussie millionaires / billionaires.
Post by: Fizzie on March 30, 2020, 08:15:00 AM
Yes we will always have foreign companies buying businesses, land and Australian assets. Have they been controlled properly, no. We have to consider what foreign companies do we want buying in Australia. Now before we all say none, think again. If some foreign owned companies did not buy in Australia some of the businesses etc would be gone for good. We do not have the population or enough millionaires to buy every big business that is on the market. As mentioned it needs to be regulated a lot better. That is something we cannot control but only our elected Govt. The FIRB laws need to be a lot stricter.
They're on to that one, at least, Mark :D
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-29/foreign-investment-restrictions-australian-assets-coronavirus/12101332 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-29/foreign-investment-restrictions-australian-assets-coronavirus/12101332)
Post by: Fizzie on March 30, 2020, 08:25:34 AM
50k wouldnt do 1 person at all... let alone a mortgage and missus and kids.
I keep seeing comment like that (not having a go at you, Bird!) & wonder every time ???
The best paying job I've ever had topped out at ~$56k, & that was while my Mrs was at home looking after 2 kids, & only getting FTB in., then it's just been 2 x Newstart.
BUT, we've paid off our mortgage, raised 2 kids, most of time we've had 2 cars, CT & now a van, go away (at least used to :'() usually 4-5 times a year for 5 nights or so, & pretty well have everything we need. No, we don't have the latest & greatest bit's of high-tech, but what we have is good enough for us. No, we don't go on overseas holidays or fly interstate, we drive when we go away. Yes, we had a few things went right that helped us do all that.
Yes, we're happy & content! ;D
Would an income of $100k be nice - yes, of course it would! Do we need it ??? Nup! ;D
Post by: CTL on March 30, 2020, 10:24:04 AM
What about food items for a start?
Buy only Aussie food stuffs and leave the china crap on the shelves.
Please provide some examples of Chinese sourced food items on the shelves in the supermarket? I think they would be pretty rare.
Post by: alnjan on March 30, 2020, 10:34:14 AM
Post by: MarkGU on March 30, 2020, 10:40:32 AM
Post by: Troopy_03 on March 30, 2020, 11:06:51 AM
I think a lot do their own little bit.
A lot of my canned stuff will be aussie made if I can......Edgell beetroot , Cambells soup......etc, but very hard to find stuff made in Australia.
Fruit and vegies...mostly aussie, but Oranges.....nice navels are rare as hens teeth...have to put up with Egypt or USA ones most of the time, and they are NOT nice.
Quote
About Us
Campbell Soup Company (NYSE:CPB) is a multi-national food company headquartered in Camden, N.J.,
https://www.campbellsoupcompany.com/about-campbell/ (https://www.campbellsoupcompany.com/about-campbell/) ;D
Post by: Bird on March 30, 2020, 11:43:45 AM
https://www.campbellsoupcompany.com/about-campbell/ (https://www.campbellsoupcompany.com/about-campbell/) ;Dhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MreOwaET1og (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MreOwaET1og)
might have been aussie owned back then?
Post by: Fizzie on March 30, 2020, 12:03:17 PM
When you start looking at the Foreign Ownership it is interesting. Figures from 2017-18
How do you have foreign owned water ???
Post by: Bird on March 30, 2020, 12:38:49 PM
Quote from: Fizzie
How do you have foreign owned water ???Business that rely on water...
Coke for their bottled water (a town here in Vic sold their water rights to coke for $$), and others - Cotton farms etc.
Post by: Spada on March 30, 2020, 12:43:13 PM
How do you have foreign owned water ???
thats why the Darling doesn't flow, there's money to be made from water rights, and foreign food producing companies are paying to secure water for their farms - https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/water-restrictions-for-you-an-endless-supply-for-them-how-a-foreign-corporate-giant-is-snapping-up-89-billion-litres-of-australias-h20-as-the-country-suffers-its-worst-drought-ever/ar-AAK1s9j (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/water-restrictions-for-you-an-endless-supply-for-them-how-a-foreign-corporate-giant-is-snapping-up-89-billion-litres-of-australias-h20-as-the-country-suffers-its-worst-drought-ever/ar-AAK1s9j)
Post by: Fizzie on March 30, 2020, 01:03:05 PM
I always thought that was only the right to use water, not actual ownership of it :-[ >:(
Post by: Fizzie on March 30, 2020, 01:06:36 PM
Just got this from a mate:
"Why Italy and Iran?
Italy and Iran have been two of the countries hardest hit by the Wuhan coronavirus, outside of China. Why? Helen Raleigh explains at The Federalist:
The reason these two countries are suffering the most outside China is mainly due to their close ties with Beijing, primarily through the “One Belt and One Road” (OBOR) initiative.
OBOR is Beijing’s foreign policy play disguised as infrastructure investment. Here’s how it works: China and country X agree to do an infrastructure project in country X. Country X has to borrow from a Chinese bank to finance the project. A contract is always awarded to Chinese companies, which then bring supplies and Chinese employees to country X to build the project.
As a result of One Belt and One Road, there are more than 300,000 Chinese living in Italy.
Almost exactly a year ago in March 2019, against warnings from the EU and the United States, Italy became the first and only G7 country to sign onto OBOR. As part of the deal, Italy opened an array of sectors to Chinese investment, from infrastructure to transportation, including letting Chinese state-owned companies hold a stake in four major Italian ports. …
Lombardy and Tuscany are the two regions that saw the most Chinese investment. Nearly a year later, the first Wuhan coronavirus infection case in Italy was reported in the Lombardy region on Feb. 21. Today, Italy is experiencing the worst coronavirus outbreak outside China, and Lombardy is the hardest-hit region in the country.
The Iran case is interesting as well:
2019 was the year Iran officially signed up to OBOR. China sees Iran as a crucial player to this initiative because Iran is not only rich in oil but also lies in a direct path of an ambitious 2,000-mile railroad China wants to build, which will run from western China through Tehran and Turkey into Europe.
Today, Iranian health officials trace the country’s coronavirus outbreak to Qom, a city of a million people. According to the Wall Street Journal, “China Railway Engineering Corp. Is building a $2.7 billion high-speed rail line through Qom. Chinese technicians have been helping refurbish a nuclear-power plant nearby.” Iranian medical professionals suspect either Chinese workers in Qom or an Iranian businessman who travelled to China from Qom caused the spread of the coronavirus in Qom.
News reports indicate that a number of high Iranian officials have contracted coronavirus, and I believe at least one or two have died. Raleigh explains:
Although on Feb. 1 the Iranian government banned its airlines from flying to China, it made an exception for Mahan Air, an unofficial airline for the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps.
The WSJ reported that Mahan Air “had carried out eight flights between Tehran and China between Feb. 1 and Feb. 9 to transfer Chinese and Iranian passengers to their respective home countries.” This explains why so many high-level Iranian officials are infected by the coronavirus, including First Vice President Eshaq Jahangiri and more than 20 lawmakers
Relying on China for economic development was never a good idea, but it turned out to be more dangerous than we knew."
Interesting theory, but who knows ???
Post by: Bigfish on March 30, 2020, 01:31:46 PM
Thanks!
I always thought that was only the right to use water, not actual ownership of it :-[ >:(
Our scum bag federal and state govts have sold billions of litres of water that they never should have. How did we reach such a disastrous position with our Murry/Darling water supply...Because the bastards had a 20 litre bucket of water and by figure smudging and wizardry sold 40 litres from the bucket...
Post by: rossm on March 30, 2020, 03:40:25 PM
Our scum bag federal and state govts have sold billions of litres of water that they never should have. How did we reach such a disastrous position with our Murry/Darling water supply...Because the bastards had a 20 litre bucket of water and by figure smudging and wizardry sold 40 litres from the bucket...
That’s the best explanation of the Murray-Darling debacle I have read.
Post by: Troopy_03 on March 30, 2020, 03:53:40 PM
Our scum bag federal and state govts have sold billions of litres of water that they never should have. How did we reach such a disastrous position with our Murry/Darling water supply...Because the bastards had a 20 litre bucket of water and by figure smudging and wizardry sold 40 litres from the bucket...
Even if they were selling it by the 40L out of a 20L bucket, it would still have taken them a f'kin long time to sell that much, wouldn't it? ;D
Post by: Troopy_03 on March 30, 2020, 03:57:05 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MreOwaET1og (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MreOwaET1og)
might have been aussie owned back then?
Mate, that advert has a bloke with a Yank accent, so I'd say was Yank owned back then, then multinational later on.
Post by: CTL on March 30, 2020, 10:08:47 PM
What about food items for a start?
Buy only Aussie food stuffs and leave the china crap on the shelves.
The " overlords" can't dictate to us what we buy so why is that an issue?
I asked
Please provide some examples of Chinese sourced food items on the shelves in the supermarket? I think they would be pretty rare.
And you replied
Chinese sourced foods on supermarket shelves??????
So back to you.
Post by: Pete79 on March 30, 2020, 11:12:36 PM
Now if we're all up for a good conspiracy theory ... ???
I love a good conspiracy theory... Especially one from Fox News, Breitbart or The Federalist.... ;) ;D
Just somewhat surprised that all of those Chinese workers building the rail links to Russia or the ones building all of those new ports on the pacific islands didn’t spread the virus as quickly as the ones working in Italy and Iran.... ;D
Post by: bkim on March 30, 2020, 11:43:54 PM
Now if we're all up for a good conspiracy theory ... ???
Just got this from a mate:
"Why Italy and Iran?
Italy and Iran have been two of the countries hardest hit by the Wuhan coronavirus, outside of China. Why? Helen Raleigh explains at The Federalist:
The reason these two countries are suffering the most outside China is mainly due to their close ties with Beijing, primarily through the “One Belt and One Road” (OBOR) initiative.
Interesting theory, but who knows ???
Wonder how she is going to explain how the USA is now the country with the most cases!
Post by: Bad Scott on March 31, 2020, 05:24:11 AM
Post by: Mitch92 on March 31, 2020, 05:50:27 AM
For example at least one milk company is foreign owned, however all the milk comes from cows here in Australia, on Australian farms, employing Aussies.
Post by: Pete79 on March 31, 2020, 07:00:18 AM
Your milk example is a good one.
We’re fortunate here, our fresh milk comes from the dairy 10km down the road. They’re 100% local, our money stays in our community with that one.
But we get our long life milk from Aldi.
The milk is 100% Australian from Norco, but everyone loves to slam Aldi for not being Australian.
I my view Aldi does a good job employing locals and sells a good range of Australian products.
And just as importantly, Aldi is the competition that Coles and Woolies desperately didn’t want, and we all know what Coles and Woolies did when they had no competition.
So I’ll happily throw Aldi a few bucks to keep them around and keep the bastards honest, as they say. ;)
Post by: Rowlie on March 31, 2020, 08:04:37 AM
I again support your cause to put Oz first but if we want to continue to enjoy our standard of living after Covid19 we shouldn't distance ourselves from our trading partnerships anywhere.
Post by: Bird on March 31, 2020, 09:21:02 AM
Quote from: Pete79
The big thing for me is if you are trying to shop consciously, then you should know the parent companies of your chosen brands.that is nearly impossible though with all teh double dutch and PC bullShit where the Gov allows 'Made in Australia" labels when infact, a small % of it is made in AU.
Quote
I my view Aldi does a good job employing locals and sells a good range of Australian products.They sell amazing amounts of product from O/S... of all sorts.
Post by: Fizzie on March 31, 2020, 10:01:31 AM
I love a good conspiracy theory...
Happy to oblige ;D
As I said, who knows if there's any facts behind it, but having said that, was looking at FlightRadar earlier on & there were 2 Mahan Air jet's airborne over Western China, enroute from Beijing to Tehran! ::) ???
Post by: Bird on March 31, 2020, 10:27:18 AM
My misses calls me a brand snob if and when I do the shopping when I'm home and then says why did it cost a bomb. At least the buck stays here in Aus with me. I always have supported home grown produce and will always continue to do so.I've alway wondered why the Farmers federation dont open up a shop chain and give the finger to Colesworth and keep the profits they deserve themselves...
Post by: JD-120 on March 31, 2020, 10:35:46 AM
Post by: Bird on March 31, 2020, 10:48:19 AM
Quote from: JD-120
probably contractual and or if they did, then Coles / wollies no buy their produce any longer. There is always someone that will provide the stock, including from OS
True, but Gov Co should (or could?) support the Farmers Fed in some sort of initiate like this after all the Shit has hit the fan and died down.. or am I dreaming :(
Post by: plusnq on March 31, 2020, 11:29:43 AM
Post by: Fizzie on March 31, 2020, 11:36:47 AM
There is a food shortage looming as poor seasons, combined with coronavirus reducing availablilty of cheap labour and countries not exporting their crops all turn into a perfect storm.
Lot's of places, yes, quite possibly, but Oz should be OK ???
Post by: Spada on March 31, 2020, 11:57:54 AM
Lot's of places, yes, quite possibly, but Oz should be OK ???
Only if all the unemployed barista's decide to go fruit picking on minimum wage to offset the lack of backpackers >:D
Post by: alnjan on March 31, 2020, 11:58:44 AM
There is a food shortage looming as poor seasons, combined with coronavirus reducing availablilty of cheap labour and countries not exporting their crops all turn into a perfect storm.
So the doom and gloomers of the UN say. Thought they would be happy about COVID19 and all it reaps. After all the UN is the one pushing to have the population reduced as it allegedly can not maintain the current and projected population levels.
Post by: Pete79 on March 31, 2020, 04:22:02 PM
Only if all the unemployed barista's decide to go fruit picking on minimum wage to offset the lack of backpackers >:DI recon those baristas would be stoked to actually get paid for working sundays again... :D
Seriously though, I saw some interviews with farmers in the southern states saying they are getting swamped with applications.
Typically got a couple of work inquiries every week or so, now getting dozens every day.
Tradies, pilots, retail workers, you name it they are actively seeking any paid work they can get.
One farmer commented that as much as he'd like take on everyone he thought there was enough struggling people in the local town to cover his needs.
He was also concerned with bringing in people from the cities that could potentially bring the virus into these little towns.
Post by: Bigfish on March 31, 2020, 04:35:50 PM
So the doom and gloomers of the UN say. Thought they would be happy about COVID19 and all it reaps. After all the UN is the one pushing to have the population reduced as it allegedly can not maintain the current and projected population levels.
And yet the UN is full of fat, old , lazy bastards...Maybe start the cull there..
Post by: rossm on March 31, 2020, 04:40:52 PM
True, but Gov Co should (or could?) support the Farmers Fed in some sort of initiate like this after all the Shit has hit the fan and died down.. or am I dreaming :(
Another ship that sailed many decades ago.
The cost of establishing a retail chain would run into the zillions. That's why Coles and Woolworths (and Aldi) have market dominance. They have spent the money the infrastructure over many many years.
They had to get big. Bit like many farmers who face the get big or get out quandary.
Post by: rockrat on March 31, 2020, 05:12:23 PM
And yet the UN is full of fat, old , lazy bastards...Maybe start the cull there..But like most politicians smart enough and work hard enough to get there!
If it was that easy to become a federal MP on several hundred thousand a year, we would all be one. Same goes for CEO, doctors, lawyers and most high income earners. Plenty of attractive young women, but they don't all become supermodels, so I wonder what differentiates those that do from those that don't - perseverance and hard work expect, with a bit of luck thrown in. Same goes for the Instagram influencers.
Getting really sick and tired of people having a go at successful people. >:(
Post by: Troopy_03 on March 31, 2020, 05:14:45 PM
But like most politicians smart enough and work hard enough to get there!
If it was that easy to become a federal MP on several hundred thousand a year, we would all be one. Same goes for CEO, doctors, lawyers and most high income earners. Plenty of attractive young women, but they don't all become supermodels, so I wonder what differentiates those that do from those that don't - perseverance and hard work expect, with a bit of luck thrown in. Same goes for the Instagram influencers.
Getting really sick and tired of people having a go at successful people. >:(
Mate, it's an Aussie tradition... LOL
Post by: Robbo on March 31, 2020, 05:31:53 PM
Mate, it's an Aussie tradition... LOLYep, Tall Poppy Syndrome is alive and well. Rather sad really as i have always admired anyone who has done well for themselves. Good on them and jealousy is a lonely disease.
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Post by: gronk on March 31, 2020, 05:57:57 PM
But like most politicians smart enough and work hard enough to get there!
Getting really sick and tired of people having a go at successful people. >:(
I don't have a go at successful people, but I thought it was funny when you mentioned smart, work hard, successful and politician in the same sentence......... :D :D :D
Post by: rockrat on March 31, 2020, 06:08:09 PM
I don't have a go at successful people, but I thought it was funny when you mentioned smart, work hard, successful and politician in the same sentence......... :D :D :DSmart enough to get enough people to vote for them
Work hard enough to get enough people to vote for them
Successful enough to get enough people to vote for them
All of which gets them a nice little salary, plenty of benefits and if they are smart enough, work hard enough and are successful enough for enough time they get a great pension which should be more than enough.
So I guess it just depends on your goals :cup:
Post by: prodigyrf on March 31, 2020, 07:55:12 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/this-vietnamese-car-company-could-save-holdens-aussie-workers/ar-BB10Y8Hj
One thing about ferociously competitive cars is they keep our biz costs down and we don't have to subsidise car workers to the tune of $50k each a year and it's not as if Holden Ford and Toyota didn't give it a good try manufacturing here.
Post by: Winchy on April 01, 2020, 07:55:28 AM
Post by: Spada on April 01, 2020, 12:29:25 PM
Asahi currently owns the following brands in Aus -
Non-alcoholic:
Cool Ridge
Cottee's Cordial
Extra Juicy
Frantelle
Gatorade
Mountain Dew
Passiona
Pepsi
Pop Tops
Schweppes
Smart Juice
SOLO Original
Spring Valley
Sunkist
VOSS
Alcoholic:
Ready to drink: Vodka Cruiser, Rhythm, Red Bear, Woodstock, Highland Scotch, Wild Moose
Beer: Asahi Super Dry, NZ Pure, Kingfisher Lager, Cricketers Arms, Asahi Soukai, Estrella Damm
Cider: Somersby
Spirits: Woodstock Bottled Spirits, Nikka Whisky
And with the purchase of CUB will now also have-
Beer brands– Great Northern, Victoria Bitter, Carlton Draught, Carlton Dry, Cascade Premium, Pure Blonde, Matilda Bay, Fat Yak, Melbourne Bitter, Crown Lager, Pirate Life, 4 Pines, Foster’s, Reschs and Balter. CUB also imports or manufactures, and then distributes, a range of other beer brands under licence, including Goose Island, Corona, Stella Artois, Belle-vue, Hoegaarden, Leffe, Beck’s, Lowenbrau, Franziskaner, Spaten and Budweiser.
Cider brands– Strongbow, Mercury, Bonamy’s, Little Green, Spring Cider Co, Dirty Granny, Pure Blonde Cider. CUB also manufactures and distributes Bulmers under licence from Heineken.
Spirits brands– Cougar, Black Douglas, Lexington Hill, Karloff, Continental Liqueurs, Coyote and Prince Albert.
Post by: Marcus73 on April 01, 2020, 02:34:53 PM
I have been definitely guilty of just buying whatever, but since all of this crap I’ll look for Aussie made.
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Post by: Spada on April 01, 2020, 03:54:39 PM
Post by: alnjan on April 01, 2020, 05:59:54 PM
Post by: rockrat on April 01, 2020, 06:06:49 PM
Thanks to the prompt from Mark & Steffo, I'm now committed myself to a concerted effort this weekend to try all the offerings from Dr. Cooper and find a new beer fridge filler (or two) ;DWhat, the local craft breweries not your thing? ;D
Post by: Troopy_03 on April 01, 2020, 06:16:55 PM
Post by: Troopy_03 on April 01, 2020, 06:18:49 PM
What, the local craft breweries not your thing? ;D
That's about the only type of beer I buy these days. Occasionally I'll buy some of the international beers.
Post by: Spada on April 02, 2020, 06:46:22 AM
What, the local craft breweries not your thing? ;D
I'd prefer something that can be readily sourced, and I've found a lot of the craft beers to be an acquired taste?
Post by: Steffo1 on April 02, 2020, 08:38:19 AM
to be an acquired taste?
Very tactful, that! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Ultimate Adventures Podcast on April 02, 2020, 02:49:42 PM
That's about the only type of beer I buy these days. Occasionally I'll buy some of the international beers.
We like nothing better then finding a craft brewer somewhere and killing an afternoon. :cheers:
Post by: Spada on April 02, 2020, 05:13:10 PM
I'd prefer something that can be readily sourced, and I've found a lot of the craft beers to be an acquired taste?
I've sampled quite a few craft beers, here's a couple of pictures from my man-cave. No two stubbies the same, and everyone of then sampled by yours truly ;D
Post by: rockrat on April 02, 2020, 05:42:01 PM
I've sampled quite a few craft beers, here's a couple of pictures from my man-cave. No two stubbies the same, and everyone of then sampled by yours truly ;D
:cup:
Post by: gronk on April 02, 2020, 06:20:34 PM
I'd prefer something that can be readily sourced, and I've found a lot of the craft beers to be an acquired taste?
Found the same. Some of them just a small step up from home brew..
Some beers seem ok after 1 or 2, but after sampling a carton, it soon sorts the good from the so,so stuff ?
I like a beer that tastes good carton after carton.......latest beer of choice, Coopers Dry !!
Post by: Hairs on April 02, 2020, 07:22:32 PM
If you want to do something positive gor Australian producers, please click on the link.
If it has been posted before, sorry. BTW, thanks kev.
[url]http://buyausmag.com.au/[url]
Post by: tombie on April 02, 2020, 07:37:51 PM
40 years ago the argument was against the Japanese!! Nothing will change, unfortunately...Money is the deciding factor... People only pay what they can afford. There is a lot of Chinese stuff on the narket...most of it sold by Australian citizens..
Agree with the sentiment although A lot of people can afford it. They just plain simply won’t pay it!
A majority of Aussies want big salaries, short work weeks and low cost products.
Very few (obviously) saw an Aussie company move it’s manufacturing overseas and then refused to buy their products. Think Bonds etc.
People import parts to save a dollar which is killing bricks and mortar shops here because it’s cheaper. Complain of mark ups yet want big pay and spend SFA. Then complain there’s nowhere here when the SHTF.
And then there’s those who blame the Government for it all. Nope, blame the people. People drove this by:
Wanting everything cheaper,
Importing cheaper products to compete,
Demanding high wages for low skill tasks (Partly Union greed there),
Moving to a disposable product methodology,
Wanting huge houses, fancy toys and inducing big debt to do so.
“Your” Super Fund is also responsible. They drive companies to greater ROI and that drives the search for cheaper production markets.
There’s heaps more...
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Post by: tombie on April 02, 2020, 07:43:30 PM
So the doom and gloomers of the UN say. Thought they would be happy about COVID19 and all it reaps. After all the UN is the one pushing to have the population reduced as it allegedly can not maintain the current and projected population levels.
Every spoken with a Farmer / Pastoralist?
They have calculations for the number of animals they can run.
It’s based on Feed available, Land Size, Water availability. Not enough of one of these and too many animals would die.
It’s the same if you consider humans.
Finite space
Finite feed
Finite water
The FULL UN document mentions managing population levels. This can be as simple as limitations on numbers of children per couple. I don’t think they mentioned Soilent Green at all.
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Post by: alnjan on April 02, 2020, 08:34:34 PM
Every spoken with a Farmer / Pastoralist?
They have calculations for the number of animals they can run.
It’s based on Feed available, Land Size, Water availability. Not enough of one of these and too many animals would die.
It’s the same if you consider humans.
Finite space
Finite feed
Finite water
The FULL UN document mentions managing population levels. This can be as simple as limitations on numbers of children per couple. I don’t think they mentioned Soilent Green at all.
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The calculations the Grazier's make, also varies on a few other factors. Due to carrying capacity of a Grazier's property being fairly restricted, Grazier's also take advantage of any change or improvement in farming technique which will improve the carrying capacity. This has resulted in an increasing carrying capacity for most Graziers.
The UN is largely stuck on the Malthusian Law of Population, regardless of how many times the 'Law' has been shown to be false. Relying on a theory from 1798 and not changing make sense. How many times has the prediction been made that we will 'run out' of food?
At present just what our maximum population is, is really unknown.
Post by: Troopy_03 on April 02, 2020, 10:00:21 PM
I'd prefer something that can be readily sourced, and I've found a lot of the craft beers to be an acquired taste?
Yeah, that acquired taste is due to them actually using Hops and Malted grain... weird idea eh? ;D
Post by: Troopy_03 on April 02, 2020, 10:01:45 PM
Found the same. Some of them just a small step up from home brew..
Some beers seem ok after 1 or 2, but after sampling a carton, it soon sorts the good from the so,so stuff ?
I like a beer that tastes good carton after carton.......latest beer of choice, Coopers Dry !!
What? not XXXX Gold? >:D
Post by: CTL on April 02, 2020, 10:04:58 PM
I like a beer that tastes good carton after carton.......latest beer of choice, Coopers Dry !!
Agreed. A good drop. And Australian owned. :cheers:
Post by: tombie on April 02, 2020, 10:15:17 PM
The calculations the Grazier's make, also varies on a few other factors. Due to carrying capacity of a Grazier's property being fairly restricted, Grazier's also take advantage of any change or improvement in farming technique which will improve the carrying capacity. This has resulted in an increasing carrying capacity for most Graziers.
The UN is largely stuck on the Malthusian Law of Population, regardless of how many times the 'Law' has been shown to be false. Relying on a theory from 1798 and not changing make sense. How many times has the prediction been made that we will 'run out' of food?
At present just what our maximum population is, is really unknown.
Thanks. Great response. Perhaps I was a bit simplistic
Even Principles of Population which was used to discredit Malthus theory agrees that “positive checks” will still be more than likely if population growth is not curbed.
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Post by: Paddler Ed on April 02, 2020, 10:17:31 PM
http://www.newenglandbrewing.com.au/beers/buy-online/ (http://www.newenglandbrewing.com.au/beers/buy-online/)
We do get spoilt here though with Great Hops (https://www.greathops.com.au/ (https://www.greathops.com.au/)) and Welders Dog (https://www.theweldersdog.com.au/ (https://www.theweldersdog.com.au/)) all in the area as well; we also get some from Deepwater (a bit harder to get hold of at times, but a good big beer: https://www.deepwaterbrewing.com.au/ (https://www.deepwaterbrewing.com.au/))
Most of the local pubs have at least one of those as an option, so there's no excuse for not buying it locally - they've even got Dan's to stock it (and a good mark up over what the brewery door sells it for!)
Post by: alnjan on April 03, 2020, 06:32:57 AM
Thanks. Great response. Perhaps I was a bit simplistic
Even Principles of Population which was used to discredit Malthus theory agrees that “positive checks” will still be more than likely if population growth is not curbed.
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The Observational Data keeps showing as a Country develops the population growth rate actually declines. Look at the population growth rate between Western Worlds and Third world Countries. Western World either has to have incentive programs for families to increase or simply increase their immigration levels to increase their population.
Post by: rockrat on April 03, 2020, 12:43:41 PM
What? not XXXX Gold? >:DOn the topic of beer, who has tried XXXX Dry?
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Post by: Paddler Ed on April 03, 2020, 01:28:54 PM
The Observational Data keeps showing as a Country develops the population growth rate actually declines. Look at the population growth rate between Western Worlds and Third world Countries. Western World either has to have incentive programs for families to increase or simply increase their immigration levels to increase their population.
A couple of things behind this:
1) Children are an economic inferior good - as incomes increase, we consume less of them (ie don't have as many). In part this is because life expectancy has improved, so we don't need as many in the case of infant mortality, but also because people just don't have time for it.
2) As education increases, the number of children decrease as well - this is why AusAid projects etc that were being done in developing countries are so important in increasing female education rates in particular; it moves their expected role beyond being a baby factory and cooking.
3) Improved access to healthcare - both health education (2) and lifespan (1) are impacted by this; (2) is that contraception is more readily available and the woman can feel more empowered to tell the bloke to wrap it up, and in the case of (1) it's just better life outcomes in terms of infant mortality.
The problem is that the majority of the western world's premise of good economic activity is based on continual economic growth, and the easiest way to achieve that is to increase the number of heads/mouths to feed...
Post by: gronk on April 03, 2020, 04:50:19 PM
Yeah, that acquired taste is due to them actually using Hops and Malted grain... weird idea eh? ;DI don't know about malted grain, but I presumed you needed hops to make beer ?? ;D
Ha ha...when all this is over, I wonder if the hand sanitiser some places are now making will taste better than their normal product ??
Post by: alnjan on April 03, 2020, 10:58:45 PM
A couple of things behind this:
1) Children are an economic inferior good - as incomes increase, we consume less of them (ie don't have as many). In part this is because life expectancy has improved, so we don't need as many in the case of infant mortality, but also because people just don't have time for it.
2) As education increases, the number of children decrease as well - this is why AusAid projects etc that were being done in developing countries are so important in increasing female education rates in particular; it moves their expected role beyond being a baby factory and cooking.
3) Improved access to healthcare - both health education (2) and lifespan (1) are impacted by this; (2) is that contraception is more readily available and the woman can feel more empowered to tell the bloke to wrap it up, and in the case of (1) it's just better life outcomes in terms of infant mortality.
The problem is that the majority of the western world's premise of good economic activity is based on continual economic growth, and the easiest way to achieve that is to increase the number of heads/mouths to feed...
I agree. Along with that is the improved farming practises in the developed Countries are producing more food then before and continue to produce more than the Country needs.
The future problem would be if those developing or third World Countries finally become developed Countries and follow the same Population trend would the Population stagnate or decrease instead of the current continual increase?
Post by: Fizzie on April 04, 2020, 09:18:31 AM
The future problem would be if those developing or third World Countries finally become developed Countries and follow the same Population trend would the Population stagnate or decrease instead of the current continual increase?
Eventually level off then start to slowly decrease.
Was reading a book dealing with all this sort of thing just a few week ago - Factfulness https://www.gapminder.org/factfulness-book/ (https://www.gapminder.org/factfulness-book/)
Set's out to prove that what we know about how bad the world is, is basically wrong :o
If you're at all interested in this sort of area, I'd encourage you to get hold of it & have a read - truly amazing stuff! :cup:
Post by: Paddler Ed on April 04, 2020, 07:32:27 PM
I agree. Along with that is the improved farming practises in the developed Countries are producing more food then before and continue to produce more than the Country needs.
The future problem would be if those developing or third World Countries finally become developed Countries and follow the same Population trend would the Population stagnate or decrease instead of the current continual increase?
Why does a stabilising or decreasing population pose a problem?
In other thoughts, and back on topic - I did end up needing to clean myself up after changing the brake fluid on both Land Cruisers, so whilst doing that I did a quick look around the bathroom for Aussie made products:
-Shampoo and wash: Nature's Organics:https://naturesorganics.com.au/about/history/ (https://naturesorganics.com.au/about/history/) is Aussie owned and made. Also Sukin is Aussie made (and I think owned): https://sukinnaturals.com.au/pages/our-story (https://sukinnaturals.com.au/pages/our-story)
-Cleaner: Earth Choice (part of Nature's Organics) is often one of the cheapest options https://naturesorganics.com.au/our-products/ (https://naturesorganics.com.au/our-products/)
Post by: tombie on April 04, 2020, 08:41:51 PM
You’ll never buy an Aussie made one
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Post by: StormCamper on April 11, 2020, 03:01:24 AM
1- The aussie makers genuinely have no clue how long they will last, I have asked all the big guns over the past few years about how long their suspesnion, canvas, all the stuff will last. And they don't wanna know you! What answers I get are indirect rubbish. So why on earth would I buy a 40-60K CT when it comes with absolutely no stadards? Sadly it seems many owners don't really know. Simply put I have no idea how many KM's of corrugations it will handle until something needs servicing fixing etc. I expect to get 30+years out of it for these prices. There are imports doing the cape, I have always suspected some of the imports are half the cost, 90% the quality.
2- Aussie made CT's are so inflated its ridiculous (and yes some imports too!). For 50K you bloody well expect 250L of water storage, 60L of fuel, 600AH+ of lithium, 800W on roof, built in air cond,a dedicated place to store the genny, porta potty, large quantity of portable solar panels, powerful victron gear, proper AC GPO's. Please don't waste my time telling me thats overkill. That is exactly what I would throw in a DOT or Trackabout, so I dont camp like a bumb. But hey... at least the kids & women know they get treated well with me, It seems alot of men wonder why their partner don't wanna go away :-[. Feel sorry for Drifta owners...ouch! LOL 7mins to packup an awning. :-X
Some other maker spent 40mins blabbering on about a bracket, em I paying 60K for a CT, or drones & marketing?
3- One thing I know is there is always built in regret, or some reason to sell it. Better to be stuck with a 20K CT vs. a 40K. And no hoarding your possessions is not the answer!
4-Less & less places you can go now that warrent a good CT, its all being locked up, overpopulated. tourists stealing our backyard too.
Really the only reason I wouldn't touch chinese imports is they are such a joke design wise for what I wan't to do (aswell many aussie). Will the chinese ever make a better copy of the Conqueror, DOT, trackabout, ultimate? I wish coz those brands all have major flaws that are dog balls obvious, but i suspect by the time they do the price diff might not be that big.
Give anouther decade or two and all aussies are done, retirement is being weeded out and future gens are in big trouble as the world is unstable & on the brink. It's survival of the fittest. Just remember the word Hypocrisy until the day you die, like aussie makers driving Toyotas.
Post by: Fizzie on April 11, 2020, 09:34:17 AM
On first glance, some great gear in there ;D
Post by: Hairs on April 11, 2020, 12:37:10 PM
Just spotted this site: https://www.australianmade.com.au/products/ (https://www.australianmade.com.au/products/)Cheers,
On first glance, some great gear in there ;D
I'll check it out.
Post by: Bigfish on April 11, 2020, 12:59:21 PM
After all the research I have done in my spare time over the past few years, I can see 4 reasons to buy chinese campers.
1- The aussie makers genuinely have no clue how long they will last, I have asked all the big guns over the past few years about how long their suspesnion, canvas, all the stuff will last. And they don't wanna know you! What answers I get are indirect rubbish. So why on earth would I buy a 40-60K CT when it comes with absolutely no stadards? Sadly it seems many owners don't really know. Simply put I have no idea how many KM's of corrugations it will handle until something needs servicing fixing etc. I expect to get 30+years out of it for these prices. There are imports doing the cape, I have always suspected some of the imports are half the cost, 90% the quality.
2- Aussie made CT's are so inflated its ridiculous (and yes some imports too!). For 50K you bloody well expect 250L of water storage, 60L of fuel, 600AH+ of lithium, 800W on roof, built in air cond,a dedicated place to store the genny, porta potty, large quantity of portable solar panels, powerful victron gear, proper AC GPO's. Please don't waste my time telling me thats overkill. That is exactly what I would throw in a DOT or Trackabout, so I dont camp like a bumb. But hey... at least the kids & women know they get treated well with me, It seems alot of men wonder why their partner don't wanna go away :-[. Feel sorry for Drifta owners...ouch! LOL 7mins to packup an awning. :-X
Some other maker spent 40mins blabbering on about a bracket, em I paying 60K for a CT, or drones & marketing?
3- One thing I know is there is always built in regret, or some reason to sell it. Better to be stuck with a 20K CT vs. a 40K. And no hoarding your possessions is not the answer!
4-Less & less places you can go now that warrent a good CT, its all being locked up, overpopulated. tourists stealing our backyard too.
Really the only reason I wouldn't touch chinese imports is they are such a joke design wise for what I wan't to do (aswell many aussie). Will the chinese ever make a better copy of the Conqueror, DOT, trackabout, ultimate? I wish coz those brands all have major flaws that are dog balls obvious, but i suspect by the time they do the price diff might not be that big.
Give anouther decade or two and all aussies are done, retirement is being weeded out and future gens are in big trouble as the world is unstable & on the brink. It's survival of the fittest. Just remember the word Hypocrisy until the day you die, like aussie makers driving Toyotas.
So your assuming husbands partners do not want to go away because they dont get treated right?? I dont think many men wonder at all...I reckon the vast majority know why!!
I,m happy to waste my time and say you dont need 600amps of lithium, 800watts of solar etc.."so I dont camp like a bumb (bum!)..Seriously...How many on here carry that sort of power/water and how many would even want it or need it?
Judging by the tone of your post I reckon you need to chill out a bit..
Post by: Spada on April 11, 2020, 06:13:47 PM
I,m happy to waste my time and say you dont need 600amps of lithium, 800watts of solar etc.."so I dont camp like a bumb (bum!)..Seriously...How many on here carry that sort of power/water and how many would even want it or need it?
guilty as charged ;D
Post by: MB TD42 on April 22, 2020, 04:20:44 PM
That is dead right. How many Australians would be willing to take pay cuts so as the average wage is $45,000 a year? Our labour costs are just so expensive. Plus all our best food is sent overseas. The seafood available to us is way too expensive....fishing licences cost an arm and leg...maybe if govt cut the licence fees to 10% and said that all fish to be sold in Aus!..Sounds good but govt takes a huge tax hit. Most of our rice and wheat is sent overseas as well. Live meat trade should be halted asap. Apart from the shocking treatment of our cattle we are also building up asians cattle industry. No manufacturing..once again our labour costs are too high. Its great living at a decent standard compared to many countries but we pay the price. Globalisation , hopefully, will take a hit and if ever we get a govt that is really interested in the country and its people then one day we will look after our farmers, workers, disadvantaged and each other a whole lot better. Capitalism isnt working and maybe, just maybe, after this virus runs its course we might see a better way of doing things and prioritise what is of most importance to us as a country..Our average national income is around 45k per annum... Not a pay cut...you would need to drop to 18k per annum to compete
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Post by: Benduro on April 22, 2020, 07:19:51 PM
I see a lot of people locally making conscious choices about what they are buying and who they are buying from.
Company ownership and ethics is definitely on peoples radar and consciences are being awakened.
Personally I'd rather buy a second hand Aust' made (or at least original design) camper, for example, than a cheap Chinese knockoff trying to lure and deceive customers with an Australian name. I'd also rather support the locally owned hardware shop for the same product, maybe slightly more costly but with far better service and after sales support. The local IGA, butcher, baker, grocer are easy to support and not much more expensive. Where that's not possible, think about ethical companies like Patagonia and Zorali for clothing and equipment. Plenty of local wines on offer as well as the trusty Coopers range of beers.
Not hard at all!
Post by: KathyL on April 22, 2020, 10:49:49 PM
For 50K you bloody well expect 250L of water storage, 60L of fuel, 600AH+ of lithium, 800W on roof, built in air cond,a dedicated place to store the genny, porta potty, large quantity of portable solar panels, powerful victron gear, proper AC GPO's.And what vehicle are you going to legally tow that fully laden weight - plus all the people and stuff in/on your tow vehicle - with?
Post by: Pete79 on April 27, 2020, 09:24:42 PM
Just another reason to support your local smaller grocer.
https://au.news.yahoo.com/woolworths-coles-shoppers-beg-australian-owned-shelf-labels-085220259.html (https://au.news.yahoo.com/woolworths-coles-shoppers-beg-australian-owned-shelf-labels-085220259.html)
(https://s.yimg.com/ny/api/res/1.2/YUKriED4AZQJOcldgG_FAw--/YXBwaWQ9aGlnaGxhbmRlcjt3PTY0MDtoPTM0NC42MTUzODQ2MTUzODQ2NA--/https://s.yimg.com/uu/api/res/1.2/YLTvbmgiMlwQSRXTcdR2hg--~B/aD03NTY7dz0xNDA0O3NtPTE7YXBwaWQ9eXRhY2h5b24-/https://media-mbst-pub-ue1.s3.amazonaws.com/creatr-uploaded-images/2020-04/2a00c110-885d-11ea-afee-e08de0728330)
Post by: Pete79 on June 08, 2020, 07:59:28 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-08/australian-manufacturing-rise-and-fall-lessons-post-coronavirus/12295518 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-08/australian-manufacturing-rise-and-fall-lessons-post-coronavirus/12295518)
And this quote from the story pretty nails it;
Quote
Professor Bell says the coronavirus pandemic has cast a light on the disruption of certain supply lines, and the trade tensions we're having with China at the moment.
"That has elicited a debate locally in Australia: do we need to be strategic in terms of thinking about which industrial sectors matter, and how do we achieve some sort of presence in sectors we deem important?" he says.
"I'm pretty sceptical that debate will go very far, given our history."
Post by: Fizzie on June 08, 2020, 08:31:25 AM
Post by: Traveller on June 08, 2020, 10:58:06 AM
Even today, with all the talk that is going on, if you go to your local clothes shop and had the opportunity to buy a locally made item for several times the cost of the imports, who would consistently buy them? Not that many would be my guess.
We tow an Aussie built camper that is about 16 years old, and it has done a lot of work, been fantastic, but we are thinking of updating. We are looking at Aussie made again, but the price tags are huge, and of course none are perfect. What do we do? Last year the roads in outback Queensland were the best I have ever seen and I am sure any vehicle could have negotiated most of them, but I still have this niggling doubt about the staying power of imports, both in quality and service.
Time will tell if people will pay the extra.
Post by: Bird on June 08, 2020, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: Traveller
Time will tell if people will pay the extra.I think you know the answer...
Post by: Spada on June 12, 2020, 06:48:18 AM
Post by: Fizzie on June 12, 2020, 07:51:48 AM
Post by: gronk on June 12, 2020, 02:37:48 PM
& even back in 1975, people couldn't work out that the big thick painted line on the road was where you were supposed to stop ... >:D ;D
Yep, but in that photo, the Torana hasn't stopped and is about to mow those 2 people down !! ;D ;D
Post by: Hairs on June 12, 2020, 04:23:25 PM
Happy days.
Post by: Bigfish on June 17, 2020, 08:43:23 AM
https://newatlas.com/automotive/h2x-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles/ (https://newatlas.com/automotive/h2x-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles/)
Post by: Fizzie on June 17, 2020, 09:15:02 AM
Nice idea, but before you put a fleet of hydrogen cars on the street, it would be sort of a good idea to have lot's of servo's dispensing hydrogen ... ;D
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 18, 2020, 06:01:33 AM
We might just be able to manufacture cars for the future...
https://newatlas.com/automotive/h2x-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles/ (https://newatlas.com/automotive/h2x-hydrogen-fuel-cell-vehicles/)
They haven't been able to build a decent quality car since the mid 70's.... (and even they had their issues) and turn a profit.
Not sure why anyone would think they could get it right now. ???
If the last 45 years have taught us anything.... we can't build a decent car.
Post by: Pete79 on June 18, 2020, 07:28:09 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/blundstone-boots-150-year-anniversary/12366284 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/blundstone-boots-150-year-anniversary/12366284)
But these days the only Australian made product in their whole shoe catalog are gumboots. :(
Post by: Bird on June 18, 2020, 10:27:08 AM
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers
They haven't been able to build a decent quality car since the mid 70's.... (and even they had their issues) and turn a profit.I'd have one... ;)
Not sure why anyone would think they could get it right now. ???
If the last 45 years have taught us anything.... we can't build a decent car.
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/new-brabham-road-car-coming-122960/ (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/new-brabham-road-car-coming-122960/)
Post by: Bird on June 18, 2020, 10:35:31 AM
Tasmanian company Blundstone boots are about to celebrate 150 years.The same story with most of our manufacturing industry over last few decades.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/blundstone-boots-150-year-anniversary/12366284 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/blundstone-boots-150-year-anniversary/12366284)
But these days the only Australian made product in their whole shoe catalog are gumboots. :(
"In 2007, the company received a strong backlash in its home state of Tasmania when it announced it would have to start manufacturing the leather boots in Thailand and India, sending about 300 local jobs offshore.
Ms Wishart said there was an outcry in Tasmania.
Steve Gunn was at the helm at the time and said there was little option.
"It was a gut-wrenching experience to live through, but we knew we had to do it from a survival point of view. It had to happen," he said."
Post by: gronk on June 18, 2020, 05:59:43 PM
If the last 45 years have taught us anything.... we can't build a decent car.
I think quality wise we got to a pretty good standard in the last 10 yrs. Reliability wise, we were up with the Europeans.
The yanks have been building cars for over a 100 yrs and still can't get their stuff reliable !!
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 19, 2020, 06:39:58 AM
I think quality wise we got to a pretty good standard in the last 10 yrs. Reliability wise, we were up with the Europeans.The good.
The yanks have been building cars for over a 100 yrs and still can't get their stuff reliable !!
Engine wise, pretty good.
Fuel consumption, very good.
Brakes.... pretty damn good... but see below.
The bad,
Fit and fitment of dashboards and door trims. (cheap arse plastic)
Centre consoles and lids, (cheap arse plastic that breaks.)
Bumper bar brackets and retaining clips. (cheap arse plastic)
Steering wheels than fall apart in the sun.
Steering wheel operated buttons, fall off and on the floor, never to seen ever again.
Internal plastic door handles that break. XD to XF falcons were breaking outside handles in the 80's.
Hood linings, been falling down since the late 80's.
Head lights that fade and dis-colour in the sun.
Paint jobs, the clear coat peels off.
Metallic paint jobs, massive fade issues..... esp the orange based colours.
Brake rotors that require replacement because they've warped in 30,000klm.
Rubber donut tailshafts, because otherwise, they would vibrate ya fillings out.
Cars that catch fire.
Service costs.
Computers, more so the earlier stuff of the 90's
Power window mechanisms, motors are good, plastic clips break and you have to throw away a complete unit.
That list, just took me all of a couple of minutes to write. Sad really.
Post by: NZMarkb on June 19, 2020, 07:01:26 AM
The good.
Engine wise, pretty good.
Fuel consumption, very good.
Brakes.... pretty damn good... but see below.
The bad,
Fit and fitment of dashboards and door trims. (cheap arse plastic)
Centre consoles and lids, (cheap arse plastic that breaks.)
Bumper bar brackets and retaining clips. (cheap arse plastic)
Steering wheels than fall apart in the sun.
Steering wheel operated buttons, fall off and on the floor, never to seen ever again.
Internal plastic door handles that break. XD to XF falcons were breaking outside handles in the 80's.
Hood linings, been falling down since the late 80's.
Head lights that fade and dis-colour in the sun.
Paint jobs, the clear coat peels off.
Metallic paint jobs, massive fade issues..... esp the orange based colours.
Brake rotors that require replacement because they've warped in 30,000klm.
Rubber donut tailshafts, because otherwise, they would vibrate ya fillings out.
Cars that catch fire.
Service costs.
Computers, more so the earlier stuff of the 90's
Power window mechanisms, motors are good, plastic clips break and you have to throw away a complete unit.
That list, just took me all of a couple of minutes to write. Sad really.
Unfortunately all very true
Post by: MDS69 on June 19, 2020, 08:20:04 PM
Tasmanian company Blundstone boots are about to celebrate 150 years.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/blundstone-boots-150-year-anniversary/12366284 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-18/blundstone-boots-150-year-anniversary/12366284)
But these days the only Australian made product in their whole shoe catalog are gumboots. :(
2 days ago I went to get some new work shoes. I have to wear steel cap but in a dress type shoe as opposed to a work boot. I have been wearing steel blue for the last 10 years or so and this year I asked the question, what ones were Australian made. There were lots of Australian companies on offer, Oliver, Steel Blue, Redback, Mongrel. Can’t remember what the man said about Puma and Hard Yakka. Anyway turns out Mongrel were the most Australian and Steel Blue were next as far as manufactured in country. Turns out that Mongrel were the cheaper of the two so that’s what I got. Steel Blue were only dearer apparently because of their promotional budget. Got to pay Dennis Lillie somehow I suppose.
Post by: GeoffA on June 19, 2020, 08:24:21 PM
Post by: tedota on June 19, 2020, 10:44:03 PM
Post by: Me on June 19, 2020, 11:57:36 PM
With free trade, we loose jobs & manufacturing. We can't compete with the slave like labour forces overseas & we are geographically disadvantaged regarding logistics.
But, with free trade, we mostly all now can afford stuff that would be a luxury to us if we were to go back to tariffs & trade barriers.
A rock and a hard place comes to mind!
Post by: MarkGU on June 20, 2020, 07:57:52 AM
Had a pair of Blunnies once. Most uncomfortable boots I've ever had. Took ages to wear in.....Wear nothing but Redback boots. Aussie made and verrrry comfortable. :cup:
Post by: GeoffA on June 20, 2020, 08:12:21 AM
Wear nothing but Redback boots. Aussie made and verrrry comfortable. :cup:
Same here.... :cup:
Post by: GregP on June 20, 2020, 09:51:53 AM
GregP
Post by: scrubber on June 21, 2020, 09:32:32 AM
Post by: Fizzie on June 28, 2020, 10:47:37 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-28/farmers-push-for-wool-processing-manufacturing-in-australia/12391394 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-28/farmers-push-for-wool-processing-manufacturing-in-australia/12391394)
Post by: Jon Burrell - Tentworld on June 29, 2020, 04:03:52 PM
Here is our list currently
https://www.tentworld.com.au/australian-made-camping-gear/ (https://www.tentworld.com.au/australian-made-camping-gear/)
145 Products.
If there is something you think should be in our range - let me know!
EDIT - Made the link clickable :)
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 04:26:36 AM
At the nut and bolt place in Gatton.
Needed those cone shape hole saw thingys.
A box of three, $100, made in China.
I was pissing and moaning at a $100, because I needed to do about 10 holes only.
To stand my ground, I either ring around or drive around, looking for Aussie made, then pay twice the price.
NEVER GUNNA HAPPEN.
Anyway, do we even make half the Shit we buy from China?
Post by: gronk on June 30, 2020, 06:47:23 AM
Anyway, do we even make half the Shit we buy from China?
Nope, we sent it all offshore yrs ago.
Post by: Fizzie on June 30, 2020, 07:46:16 AM
Anyway, do we even make half the Shit we buy from China?
As Gronk said, unfortunately not :'(, but is China the only place we can get things from ???
Post by: glenm64 on June 30, 2020, 08:47:20 AM
But its a 2 way street. If the world stops buying Chinese made goods and supports countries like Vietnam, India, Taiwan etc, China's economic power could be curbed.
But I think our own greed, personally, as a country and as a global community will allow China to take absolute control of the worlds economy. Then you watch it expand its physical reaches.
Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 30, 2020, 09:20:43 AM
I've just started taking all the front bumper and sheet metal off the donor car. :'(
This a 2007 ot thereabouts ute..... that's only 13 years old.
If this is the best Ford Australia can manage, they should hang their heads in shame.
Undoing the left front mudguard..... fukk me, a slice of white bread would be stronger.
Post by: Fizzie on June 30, 2020, 09:33:45 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/india-bans-tiktok-among-dozens-of-chinese-apps-citing-security/12404880 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/india-bans-tiktok-among-dozens-of-chinese-apps-citing-security/12404880)
While the push to do things here is (hopefully) getting stronger.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/andrew-liveris-manufacturing-in-australia-after-coronavirus/12387448 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/andrew-liveris-manufacturing-in-australia-after-coronavirus/12387448)
Post by: Bird on June 30, 2020, 09:42:53 AM
Quote from: Fizzie
While the push to do things here is (hopefully) getting stronger.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/andrew-liveris-manufacturing-in-australia-after-coronavirus/12387448 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-30/andrew-liveris-manufacturing-in-australia-after-coronavirus/12387448)
"The consumer, for the first time in years, has been asking, 'Is this made in Australia? Can I get an Australian-made product?'" he says.
Sounds lovely, warm and fuzzy doesn't it ???
But sadly I'm guessing the hundreds who were out on the weekend .. I mean in lockdown at the Supercenter, shopping center, chaddy, fountain gate, etc etc , I'd hazard a guess that maybe 1% may have asked if it was 100% Aussie made
Post by: noel_w on June 30, 2020, 10:28:58 AM
"The consumer, for the first time in years, has been asking, 'Is this made in Australia? Can I get an Australian-made product?'" he says.Small inroads is the way. Nothing is going to happen overnight, getting a lot of the manufacturing done back here will take a long time and we have to encourage it.
Sounds lovely, warm and fuzzy doesn't it ???
But sadly I'm guessing the hundreds who were out on the weekend .. I mean in lockdown at the Supercenter, shopping center, chaddy, fountain gate, etc etc , I'd hazard a guess that maybe 1% may have asked if it was 100% Aussie made
It's not only Oz that has this idea but other countries have also realised the danger of the dragon. They might have just exported one thing too many from Wuhan.
Post by: McGirr on June 30, 2020, 01:25:12 PM
Small inroads is the way. Nothing is going to happen overnight, getting a lot of the manufacturing done back here will take a long time and we have to encourage it.
It's not only Oz that has this idea but other countries have also realised the danger of the dragon. They might have just exported one thing too many from Wuhan.
Unfortunately I cannot ever see it happen. We may see the odd business start up back in Australia but the majority will continue to operate and manufacture off shore.
Try starting up a business, buy the land, build a plant, hire staff wages, super, holiday pay, insurance then produce a product that is reasonably priced to capture a very small market here in Australia and hope you make a profit to keep going. I would hate to attempt it. Bottom line is our market is too small to sustain alot of manufacturing in the country due to our costs.
If another virus hits or anything that can cripple the world economy then people stop buying, staff get put out off and the business struggles to even survive.
We will see other countries try and take the manufacturing monopoly off China in the future.
We will also see the new norm of alot of businesses having their staff work from home.
Curious, would we be still happy to buy imports if they were manufactured in Thailand rather than China, I bet nearly all would say yes, as long as it's not China.
Post by: Fizzie on June 30, 2020, 03:21:23 PM
Curious, would we be still happy to buy imports if they were manufactured in Thailand rather than China, I bet nearly all would say yes, as long as it's not China.
Yep, Mrs has started looking at clothes labels & picking stuff made in India, Thailand, Bangladesh - pretty well anywhere as long as it's not China!
Post by: McGirr on June 30, 2020, 03:58:31 PM
Yep, Mrs has started looking at clothes labels & picking stuff made in India, Thailand, Bangladesh - pretty well anywhere as long as it's not China!
Hence it's not really a push to bring back manufacturing in Australia again but a push to boycott buying from China...
I rest my case ;D
Mark
Post by: gronk on June 30, 2020, 04:21:22 PM
Hence it's not really a push to bring back manufacturing in Australia again but a push to boycott buying from China...
I rest my case ;D
Mark
If all they want to do is not buy Chinese, I don't see the logic in it .
It sounds like a lot are anti china, but the stuff you buy from some of those other 3rd world countries is no better quality and the workers are probably worse off than the chinese workers.
It's a free world, and not buying stuff from china as an individual is your own choice, but a government to say we won't buy off them because we don't like them is suicide ....won't happen..
Post by: Fizzie on June 30, 2020, 05:11:23 PM
Hence it's not really a push to bring back manufacturing in Australia again but a push to boycott buying from China...
I rest my case ;D
Mark
Ya got me, Mark ;D
But in her defence, (& as others have said), point us towards Oz-made clothes ??? :'(
Post by: Bird on June 30, 2020, 07:50:26 PM
Quote from: Fizzie
But in her defence, (& as others have said), point us towards Oz-made clothes ??? :'(I think that was the argument on page 1 and what Mark is getting at.
Post by: Bigpickle on June 30, 2020, 11:33:32 PM
Australia produces 5.6 million tonnes of steel per annum. China produces 996 million tonnes per annum. A large percentage of the Chinese steel is produced using Australian iron ore and coking coal.
The 9th largest commodity imported into Australia, annually, is steel products with much coming from China.
In the 1960's, West Australian mining entrepreneur Lang Hancock proposed building a railway from the WA Pilbara mines to the Qld coal mining area. He proposed to build 2 steel making plants. One in each state. A train would rail iron ore from WA to Qld to feed a steel mill and return with coal to fire a steel mill in WA.
This would have been of huge benefit to Australia as a whole and WA and Qld in particular as well as unlimited opportunities for industries along the transport corridor.
Why did it not happen? Simple. The WA Premier at the time, Sir Charles Court, never thought of it and did not want Hancock to gain the recognition he though should be his. Political jealously pure and simple.
With the morons we have had and still have in Australian Parliaments we will never get anywhere
Post by: shakey55 on July 01, 2020, 07:41:36 AM
Hence it's not really a push to bring back manufacturing in Australia again but a push to boycott buying from China...Well said McGirr
I rest my case ;D
Mark
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: tombie on July 01, 2020, 08:11:59 AM
The iron ore, coal and steel industries are a perfect example of the moronic Australian view towards local manufacturing.
Australia produces 5.6 million tonnes of steel per annum. China produces 996 million tonnes per annum. A large percentage of the Chinese steel is produced using Australian iron ore and coking coal.
The 9th largest commodity imported into Australia, annually, is steel products with much coming from China.
In the 1960's, West Australian mining entrepreneur Lang Hancock proposed building a railway from the WA Pilbara mines to the Qld coal mining area. He proposed to build 2 steel making plants. One in each state. A train would rail iron ore from WA to Qld to feed a steel mill and return with coal to fire a steel mill in WA.
This would have been of huge benefit to Australia as a whole and WA and Qld in particular as well as unlimited opportunities for industries along the transport corridor.
Why did it not happen? Simple. The WA Premier at the time, Sir Charles Court, never thought of it and did not want Hancock to gain the recognition he though should be his. Political jealously pure and simple.
With the morons we have had and still have in Australian Parliaments we will never get anywhere
This proposal was revisited a few years ago on a larger scale.
Never got off the ground then either, as the investors backed out.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: McGirr on July 01, 2020, 08:25:26 AM
Ya got me, Mark ;D
But in her defence, (& as others have said), point us towards Oz-made clothes ??? :'(
Mate fully agree, as far as I know there are none.
Mark
Post by: tombie on July 01, 2020, 08:28:37 AM
Mate fully agree, as far as I know there are none.
Mark
And seems we weren’t doing right by the workers either.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-14/buying-ethical-clothing-in-australia-can-be-complicated/12046304
Here’s a list of some Aussie made clothing
https://www.finder.com.au/brands-made-in-australia
Not a lot of Men’s gear in those lists.
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Post by: bmwfreak on July 01, 2020, 08:50:18 AM
The steel industry (BHP) was split up in the late 90’s, with disastrous effect. I worked in the industry for 25years and watched my company drop the ball. Fabrication firms started buying ‘cheap’ steel from china and putting up with poor quality, initially. This left the mills with expensive (compared to the Chinese stuff) unsold steel in their holding yards which gradually got more and more surface rust on it, requiring additional labour (from the fabricators) to prepare it ready for a finished product. Gradually the quality from China improved, until the 00’s saw more than 50% of fabricators buying steel products from steel distributors whose primary supplier was in China, followed by tubular products and merchant bar (flat bar, round bar etc).
They are gone now. I don’t know if any of the mills are still operational, including the scrap metal mill at Rooty Hill. Like the car industry, we did it to ourselves with consumers purchasing from suppliers based on the best price. This forced the suppliers a to look elsewhere for a product that was competitive.
Post by: tombie on July 01, 2020, 09:00:21 AM
Mills are still producing, and we’re still mining out here near Whyalla.
Our order books are full, agree we’re fighting cheap imports of Steel, although the outlook is positive with our process improvements in the manufacturing side.
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Post by: bmwfreak on July 01, 2020, 09:09:32 AM
Post by: D4D on July 01, 2020, 09:19:40 AM
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/like-a-virus-confusion-over-new-australian-made-logo/news-story/d8a18838d9bc24aa6bbb66ee4f1a54f0 (https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/like-a-virus-confusion-over-new-australian-made-logo/news-story/d8a18838d9bc24aa6bbb66ee4f1a54f0)
Post by: Bird on July 01, 2020, 11:07:51 AM
Oh dear...love the figures in the poll
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/like-a-virus-confusion-over-new-australian-made-logo/news-story/d8a18838d9bc24aa6bbb66ee4f1a54f0 (https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/like-a-virus-confusion-over-new-australian-made-logo/news-story/d8a18838d9bc24aa6bbb66ee4f1a54f0)
It's horrible, it looks like a virus 97%
8894 Voters
:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
Post by: tombie on July 01, 2020, 11:11:10 AM
Happy to hear that Tombie :D Who owns Whyalla now?
GFG Alliance
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Post by: Fizzie on July 01, 2020, 11:17:58 AM
It's horrible, it looks like a virus 97%
Yeah, but what would we common people know, when compared to "marketing experts" ??? ::)
Post by: Bird on July 01, 2020, 11:37:39 AM
Yeah, but what would we common people know, when compared to "marketing experts" ??? ::)a committee who probably had to go Overseas all expenses paid for 5 mths first, then another trip o/s to see how people shop in new york, paris, switzerland, germany, chernobyl, london, china, etc
Post by: Pete79 on July 01, 2020, 11:45:15 AM
GFG AllianceThey made some pretty great announcements and had great plans for our country's future;
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https://www.gfgalliance.com/what-we-do/energy/#overview (https://www.gfgalliance.com/what-we-do/energy/#overview)
That promptly got shat on by our pigheaded federal leaders..... :(
Post by: Bird on July 01, 2020, 12:11:37 PM
.... and even campers are getting thin on the ground... let alone anything clothing, or electronic, or much in the way of furniture
Post by: tombie on July 01, 2020, 02:30:42 PM
They made some pretty great announcements and had great plans for our country's future;
https://www.gfgalliance.com/what-we-do/energy/#overview (https://www.gfgalliance.com/what-we-do/energy/#overview)
That promptly got shat on by our pigheaded federal leaders..... :(
We’re still pushing forward.
Steelworks expansion, mining expansion and a large scale Solar farm are underway.
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Post by: Bird on July 02, 2020, 10:29:18 AM
Oh dear...
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/like-a-virus-confusion-over-new-australian-made-logo/news-story/d8a18838d9bc24aa6bbb66ee4f1a54f0 (https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/like-a-virus-confusion-over-new-australian-made-logo/news-story/d8a18838d9bc24aa6bbb66ee4f1a54f0)
That thing cost $10 million? My kid could have done that for $2.00 - a A4 exercise book and a pencil
Who the **** approves this Shit?
Post by: westvic on July 24, 2020, 01:43:49 PM
https://www.caradvice.com.au/866809/the-return-of-oka-a-legendary-australian-off-roader/ (https://www.caradvice.com.au/866809/the-return-of-oka-a-legendary-australian-off-roader/)
bit out of my league unfortunately
Post by: gronk on July 24, 2020, 08:08:51 PM
Buy an Australian made 4wd
https://www.caradvice.com.au/866809/the-return-of-oka-a-legendary-australian-off-roader/ (https://www.caradvice.com.au/866809/the-return-of-oka-a-legendary-australian-off-roader/)
bit out of my league unfortunately
A lot of potential but the govt departments will tender and source their gear from overseas because it's 10% cheaper.
Post by: KathyL on August 11, 2020, 02:07:58 PM
Post by: McGirr on August 11, 2020, 02:17:59 PM
Interesting read - Why the 'Buy Australian' campaign will hurt Australians (https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6871863/why-the-buy-australian-campaign-will-hurt-australians) ...
Well written and explained perfectly.
Mark
Post by: Spada on August 12, 2020, 06:35:38 AM
Take milk for example. It's all produced in Australia from Australian cows by Australian workers, but your choice of milk brand will determine if the profits from that milk stay in the Australian economy, or move into the French, Chinese, or Canadian economies. https://guide.ethical.org.au/guide/browse/guide/?type=15 (https://guide.ethical.org.au/guide/browse/guide/?type=15)
Post by: Bird on August 12, 2020, 08:35:15 AM
Quote from: Spada
ideal is based on protecting the industries that we already have and own from disappearing or moving offshore,30yrs too late.
Post by: Fizzie on August 12, 2020, 10:40:34 AM
I think most people understand that there are products that we need to import.
& in regard to the whole Just-In-Time concept
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-11/supply-chain-just-in-time-theory-coronavirus-may-prompt-rethink/12529506 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-11/supply-chain-just-in-time-theory-coronavirus-may-prompt-rethink/12529506)
Post by: #jonesy on August 12, 2020, 12:19:32 PM
Post by: Hairs on August 12, 2020, 06:16:17 PM
I support my local Mitre 10, not the green box.
Bricks & mortar businesses only, if I do purchase off eBay, I will preference an Australia bricks & mortar business.
Whether or not it comes from overseas, I buy from local/Australians.