Post by: edz on September 30, 2019, 01:30:07 AM
https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/diy-lifepo4-solar-battery.html (https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/diy-lifepo4-solar-battery.html) ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4pN4DVPOcY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4pN4DVPOcY)
Post by: Bigfish on September 30, 2019, 07:56:04 AM
Surfing the net for Lithium batteries and found this guy ..Thought the D.I.Y. Tinkers amongst us might like to have a go at a cheap Lithium battery set up ..
https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/diy-lifepo4-solar-battery.html (https://www.mobile-solarpower.com/diy-lifepo4-solar-battery.html) ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4pN4DVPOcY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4pN4DVPOcY)
Looks like a real alternative. Reviews seem positive. I am making the transition to Lithium for the 2 x37kg agms in the rear of the Pajero to get the weight down. Have enerdrive chargers (240 and dcdc) ready for the change and a Victron 100/30 regulator.....just have to bite the bullet for 200amp power of lithium.
Post by: edz on September 30, 2019, 10:10:27 AM
aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-lifepo4-3.2v-100ah.html?switch_new_app=y (http://aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-lifepo4-3.2v-100ah.html?switch_new_app=y)
Post by: austastar on September 30, 2019, 01:04:45 PM
Looks like a real alternative. Reviews seem positive. I am making the transition ....just have to bite the bullet for 200amp power of lithium.
Hi,
You won't regret it.
Absolutely no buyer's regret with mine.
Cheers
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Post by: Bigfish on September 30, 2019, 06:22:42 PM
Hi,
You won't regret it.
Absolutely no buyer's regret with mine.
Cheers
Unfortunately I have 3 x 120 amp fullrivers in the camper that are still in excellent condition after 3 years....however the 2 x 130 amp ssb agm,s in the rear tub of the car are 3 years and showing significant degradation. One is at about 60% and the other at 75% capacity....Hopefully this wet season up here will see them go over.... :laugh:
What brand of lithium did you go with?
cheers :cheers:
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Post by: rapid80 on October 01, 2019, 03:48:36 PM
He supplied the interconnects and a low voltage disconnect and will bottom balance the batteries. He said as long as I use a decent DC-DC charger so it limits over-voltage I'm good to go. No issues in Perth with the cold so its just about controlling upper and lower voltages.
All up cost was $705 plus the DC-DC
I'm doing it for a new install as I can stack the batteries in a line behind the back seats of an Amarok and get the DC-DC alongside so everything is inside the car and leaves the tray empty.
Post by: austastar on October 01, 2019, 06:36:06 PM
Cheers
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Post by: weeds on October 01, 2019, 07:11:28 PM
I'm making the switch to LIFEPO4 batteries as well and found its not half as daunting as I thought. I bought 4 100A cells from EV works https://www.evworks.com.au/calb-ca100
He supplied the interconnects and a low voltage disconnect and will bottom balance the batteries. He said as long as I use a decent DC-DC charger so it limits over-voltage I'm good to go. No issues in Perth with the cold so its just about controlling upper and lower voltages.
All up cost was $705 plus the DC-DC
I'm doing it for a new install as I can stack the batteries in a line behind the back seats of an Amarok and get the DC-DC alongside so everything is inside the car and leaves the tray empty.
What the total capacity in amp/hrs with four joined......?
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Post by: glenm64 on October 01, 2019, 09:10:21 PM
What the total capacity in amp/hrs with four joined......?
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100
Each cell is 3.2v, you need 4 to make a 12v system.
Cheers Glen
Post by: weeds on October 01, 2019, 09:24:52 PM
100
Each cell is 3.2v, you need 4 to make a 12v system.
Cheers Glen
Yep understand the need for four....just couldn’t work out the 100amp/hr
I’m struggling to understand the benefits of four batteries joined compared to one single 100amp/hr....
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Post by: BC66 on October 01, 2019, 09:41:36 PM
Yep understand the need for four....just couldn’t work out the 100amp/hrInside a big 100 ah is 4 little batteries.
I’m struggling to understand the benefits of four batteries joined compared to one single 100amp/hr....
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It’s the same thing.
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Post by: weeds on October 01, 2019, 09:58:36 PM
Inside a big 100 ah is 4 little batteries.
It’s the same thing.
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Are there you go.....
the ‘big’ 100 ah is neater and all contained....but if space is tricky than I see benefits of buying the separately.
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Post by: Bigfish on October 02, 2019, 06:16:36 AM
Are there you go.....
the ‘big’ 100 ah is neater and all contained....but if space is tricky than I see benefits of buying the separately.
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Dont forget that each of the 4 little batteries is only about 3.2 volts so hence the reason why 4 are required for a 12 volt battery..
Post by: tryagain on October 02, 2019, 07:31:06 AM
Are there you go.....
the ‘big’ 100 ah is neater and all contained....but if space is tricky than I see benefits of buying the separately.
That's basically the DIY bit, joining the 4 smaller cells into a larger battery. I did see Will (original video linked) in another of his videos say that for the average person that buying a ready made battery is probably better value for most, especially one that comes with a reasonable warranty.
Post by: edz on October 02, 2019, 07:44:53 AM
Post by: tryagain on October 02, 2019, 09:45:52 AM
An issue though is that it's 24v as opposed to 12v, that's pretty easily and cheaply dealt with it you are doing a setup from scratch for most things, but not so being able to charge from vehicles with a 12v alternator. But like most problems, they can be viewed as an opportunity, if you added an additional 24v alternator then you could make use of the batteries rapid charging capability. Say if you added a 100A 24V alternator, you could then charge the batteries at a 12v equivalent of 200A, this would mean you could go from low batteries to half full in just over an hr.
The other advantages of a setup like this are I think pretty significant too, you could do away with an LPG set up by using an inverter to power 240v induction cooktops and a 240v instant hot water heater, that alone would be pretty significant cost as well as weight savings. You could also then use 240v airconditioners and fridges which are both generally quite a bit cheaper as well as more efficient due to the economies of scale involved with their design and construction.
It might not stack up as well if you are looking to retrofit, but a new build I think would be well worth it.
Post by: Poita on October 02, 2019, 07:12:27 PM
LiFePO4 is a safer option by a long shot and what I use in my camper.
Lion also do not like heat (very common when camping in summer) and typically have only a third of the charge cycles of LiFePO4.
Post by: tryagain on October 02, 2019, 10:18:17 PM
Tryagain, the issue with those is they are a different chemistry than than LiFePO4, and are much more volatile and sensive to charge and discharge rates. We use them a lot at work and there is no way of use them in my camper.
LiFePO4 is a safer option by a long shot and what I use in my camper.
Lion also do not like heat (very common when camping in summer) and typically have only a third of the charge cycles of LiFePO4.
Yes, it's a different chemistry, (Although they are both considered types of Li-ion) (https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion) but it's not so much an issue, not sure what you use at work but maybe the LiCoO2 which has a comparatively short cycle life. Tesla/Panasonic, however, has the best battery researchers/engineers working for them and they have good cycle life, The cycle difference wouldn't be as you think, LiFePO4 is considered to be good for 2000 cycles, Musk has said that their current batteries are good for 1500 cycles, and that would be with the high demand requirements of an EV, using it for power in an RV would be far kinder to the battery and therefore you would get a lot more cycles than that. Their new battery tech is even better and supposed to only degrade by 10% after 4000 cycles!
Yes, LiFeP04 is safer, but as long as the proper precautions are taken in the setup, like they are in EV's etc the other Li-ion chemistries are considered pretty safe as well. The sort of ambient heat you get from camping shouldn't really be an issue, it wouldn't be any worse than what they are designed for in an EV, freezing temperatures can be an issue that has to be taken into consideration though.
Due to the lower cell voltage, LiFeP04 is really the only option for a 12v replacement. However, I think other chemistries and higher voltages is still where I would go like I originally mentioned. Having said all of that, if people don't understand them well, I wouldn't recommend them playing around with it, there is a lot more to make it work safely than the summary I laid out.
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on October 03, 2019, 05:50:51 AM
Post by: edz on October 03, 2019, 07:10:42 AM
But being a tight arse.
JUST got to get my head around baulking at the gate a bit with the cost and the unknown lifespan of the electronics .. :D
Post by: BC66 on October 03, 2019, 07:45:14 AM
That battery became an expensive display model.
Well kinda, the factory gave us a credit.
But because of its design to look like a normal battery , the BMS is sealed inside the case rendering it useless once we cut it open.
Choose carefully as there is a lot of cheap junk out there. Look for after sales service, something most ebay sellers can not provide. A reputable company will be able to offer tech details and support and send a replacement if you break down in Woop.
As a member of the Australian Battery Industry Association ABIA, lithium is a growing concern because of too many people offering different opinions on how to set them up, using the wrong chemist for the wrong application and the biggest concern is recycling!
One lithium battery in among a load of lead acid batteries at the recycling centre can destroy a whole batch.
We are working on ways to make a uniform identification system or color for lithium but it’s hard in an unregulated industry.
Anyway
That’s my two cents worth
Buy a quality battery from a reputable company and make sure your solar is set up to suit.
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Post by: Craig Tomkinson on October 03, 2019, 08:09:59 AM
Post by: Fizzie on October 03, 2019, 08:10:22 AM
Ta Craig, Im up to needing a replacement second battery, love the weight and usable power of the LiFePO4, being less than half and almost double of the lead battery .
But being a tight arse.
JUST got to get my head around baulking at the gate a bit with the cost and the unknown lifespan of the electronics .. :D
I'm with you edz.
We've got a 3 year old, 110Ah AGM in the van. When it dies, I'll be looking at replacing it with the equivalent Lithium, or maybe even go something like 2 x 80Ah lithium, which would provide backup if one died, while also doubling the amount of power available ;D
Post by: BC66 on October 03, 2019, 08:19:24 AM
They do the job, cheaper and more readily available and it’s proven tech.
I’m old school
Lead Graphite is the next one to look out for.
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Post by: Fizzie on October 03, 2019, 08:21:22 AM
I'm just thinking about the 30kg weight saving! ;D
Post by: BC66 on October 03, 2019, 08:24:24 AM
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Post by: BC66 on October 03, 2019, 08:26:09 AM
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Post by: glenm64 on October 03, 2019, 09:00:07 AM
The lithium-iron battery has superior chemical and thermal stability. A Lithium-iron battery remains cool at room temperature while the Li-ion may suffer thermal runaway and heats up faster under similar charging conditions.
LiFePO4 is a nontoxic material, LiCoO2 is a hazardous material.
LifePO4 batteries are slightly heavier and more bulky in size than Li-ion batteries and Li-ion have greater energy density. For this reason Li-ion is more commonly used for portable devices.
LifePO4 have a longer cycle life.
All lithium batteries dont like sub zero temps when recharging.
Fyi look at videos of Li- ion catching fire.
Have read here
https://www.newcastlesys.com/blog/lithium-ion-vs-lithium-iron-batteries
https://www.batterystuff.com/kb/articles/battery-articles/lithium-battery-overview.html
Cheers Glen
Post by: WilSurf on October 03, 2019, 11:33:29 AM
But building one, not so sure.
Post by: glenm64 on October 03, 2019, 11:47:20 AM
See here
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emyswag%2Eorg%2Findex%2Ephp%3Ftopic%3D43250%2E0&share_tid=43250&share_fid=54922&share_type=t&link_source=app
Cheers Glen
Post by: edz on October 03, 2019, 01:14:11 PM
Post by: WilSurf on October 03, 2019, 01:18:51 PM
You need 4x batteries, BMS, cell balancer or what ever it is called.
Isn't it cheaper to buy one as a complete set like Itechs one for $849?
Post by: glenm64 on October 03, 2019, 03:21:02 PM
Edz on the batterry weight I have 200a/h at around 30kg. Each cell weighs around 7.3kg (the 9kg listed includes packaging). The equivalent 260a/h in lead acid would weigh around 70kg(2 x 130a/h) so the weight saving is around 40kg, which is still heaps in my situation.
The thing I like about lithium is also the storage. Just run batteries down to under 50% SOC and turn the isolator off. I can switch them back on months later and the voltage has not dropped at all.
Cheers Glen
Post by: Poita on October 04, 2019, 03:52:42 PM
Post by: glenm64 on October 04, 2019, 04:12:41 PM
Cheers Glen
Post by: Bird on October 14, 2019, 10:58:54 AM
' Lithium battery pack for sure they go off like a string of double happy crackers on steroids. That’s why if you consider using them go for LiFePO4 lithium fero phosphate, much safer lithium ion chemistry, but doesn’t have the energy density of some other Unstable brews, I was given a Kush electric scooter that that had happened to the fire brigade could not put it out. They let it burn out.'
All the cars are running some variant of lithium cells, in this case they have had a mishap with BMS. Everyone involved has been reported safe and the competition continues! Millions of dollars are spent on these cars and this style of car usually carries 20kg of Liion.
(https://scontent-syd2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/72803761_983637141991941_5620864682853138432_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_oc=AQm7d1OnA4VaUKWWwLxiL_iqwdOUR6oMzaG4lsDM2lNS9bU1dtkanOmHvvbAh-WrWSw&_nc_ht=scontent-syd2-1.xx&oh=ed276897c1ee011b38ea658e440a5dff&oe=5E62A990)
Post by: Bird on October 19, 2020, 04:23:58 PM
Dunno how true....
Post by: tryagain on October 19, 2020, 06:21:28 PM
Post by: BC66 on October 19, 2020, 06:25:39 PM
Interesting from a mateThat happens to often, Maverick batteries are known for similar tricks but using sheets of glass to add some weight.
Dunno how true....
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Post by: Bird on October 19, 2020, 06:57:03 PM
That happens to often, Maverick batteries are known for similar tricks but using sheets of glass to add some weight.struth!!!!!
Post by: edz on October 20, 2020, 06:20:30 AM
Post by: BC66 on October 20, 2020, 11:29:41 AM
They seem ok, no returns as yet.
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Post by: tryagain on October 20, 2020, 02:33:07 PM
That happens to often, Maverick batteries are known for similar tricks but using sheets of glass to add some weight.
Now I normally take product review with a grain of salt, but https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/think-out (https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/think-out)
Post by: BC66 on October 20, 2020, 03:18:34 PM
That is a cut away of a Maverick battery. See the glass sheets , they are real glass.
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Post by: BC66 on October 20, 2020, 03:21:58 PM
https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/extreme-batteries
I wonder if they will pop up again
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Post by: Bird on October 20, 2020, 03:27:15 PM
Now I normally take product review with a grain of salt, but https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/think-out (https://www.productreview.com.au/listings/think-out)wow!
Post by: Bird on October 20, 2020, 03:28:54 PM
Quote from: BC66
3 weeks ago review....
I wonder if they will pop up again
We bought 8 X 250ah batteries from Extreme batteries who are now X Battery
also interesting
We have detected a number of positive reviews for this listing which we suspect have been falsely generated and have the potential to mislead consumers.
ProductReview.com.au takes a zero tolerance approach to any fake reviews and have removed these reviews accordingly.
I'd be happy to pay extra and walk into the store and buy it over the counter... **** buying it online.