Post by: Bigfish on May 02, 2019, 06:13:50 AM
Post by: alnjan on May 02, 2019, 09:57:37 AM
Post by: Bigfish on May 02, 2019, 10:20:50 AM
and now Bill is backing away from his earlier 'thought bubble' of 50% new cars being electric.
Will be interesting to see how things pan out. Even libs estimated between 25 and 50% electric in the same timeframe as labor. Suppose we will have to wait 20+ years to see what really happens...Many manufacturers are already talking all electric within a the next decade.
Doesnt really matter what we want...its what we get from the manufacturers...
Post by: Pete79 on May 02, 2019, 11:11:03 AM
Doesnt really matter what we want...its what we get from the manufacturers...The whole thing in a nutshell right there!
The Australian car market is minuscule.
There’s about 12 million more people just in California then there is in the whole of Australia.
And I think we all know the way they want to see the future of vehicles go over there....
We have no say in the direction of this market...
Post by: Spada on May 02, 2019, 11:42:20 AM
Post by: Bigfish on May 02, 2019, 12:11:11 PM
Glad I chose this year to do a trip to the cape...................not sure a Prius would tow the camper, let alone find a charge point on the OTT?
Sell the camper/trailer and buy a 50kva generator to mount on an off road trailer ......
Post by: tryagain on May 02, 2019, 12:13:48 PM
The whole thing in a nutshell right there!
The Australian car market is minuscule.
There’s about 12 million more people just in California then there is in the whole of Australia.
And I think we all know the way they want to see the future of vehicles go over there....
We have no say in the direction of this market...
I would agree, that's why I think we as a country should just roll with it as opposed to mandating it. With Labours target, the issue is, if it's aspirational, then it's pretty much meaningless words. If it's legislated, then it requires either a subsidy to make them financially more attractive (Taxpayer $$$ wasted) or a new form of tax on non-EVs, which would be on top of the free ride EV's already get in regards to fuel excise, which raises about $12Billion year.
Any artificial inflation of EV's is just going to cost money and have little to no impact on their availability or climate change from when you consider it from a global perspective. Early adopters with technology normally pay a premium for not much more than bragging rights in return.
Post by: JusyApples on May 02, 2019, 06:00:00 PM
Bill claimed Toyota were going full electric with their vehicles. Toyota confirmed this was not the case. They are still spending their money refining petrol and Diesel engines.
How will all this be powered without coal or nuclear power?
It’s come out that Bill wants the states to legislate that people are required to install a charger when remodelling or building a new home.
Coupled with his emission targets which he won’t cost it sounds like an expensive time for Australia.
He’s also shown he has no idea the time and cost of electric vehicles. What did he say? You could charge a battery in 8mins.
What happens for those who live in apartments, have off street parking, who want to go to remote places?
The whole thing is just made up on the spot. If he was so worried about emissions, why’s he driving around in a big red bus.
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Post by: KeithB on May 02, 2019, 06:28:49 PM
Keith
Recently retired publisher of national service station trade magazine.
Post by: alnjan on May 02, 2019, 06:34:46 PM
I think as EVS become popular, servos will start replacing gas bowsers with EV chargers. There are now super capacitor chargers on the way that can charge a car in 5-10 minutes. The servos will love that because customers might go into the store and buy something.
Keith
Recently retired publisher of national service station trade magazine.
If I understand what I have read while there are fast chargers, the 5-10 minute chargers, but the electric vehicle may not have the capability to be fast charged and will only take the 'slow' charge. Basically Tesla do a fast charge vehicle that matches their fast charger but other vehicle makers are slow charge vehicles designed to either plug in at home and charge over night or during the day at work.
Post by: corndog on May 02, 2019, 07:25:12 PM
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 08:06:55 PM
I will keep my Landcruiser 76 because the Government will not be able to pay for all the Non-Federal highways maintenance since everyone will be driving electrical cars and no one will be paying the fuel levy for the road maintenance. Back roads will be dirt roads so you will need a 4wd to travel outside the cities or on the secondary road between cities.
OK, not really true but who will pay for the road maintenance is if no-one is buying fuel?
It amaze me when I visits the family is South Africa every 4 years how the potholes are getting bigger and the secondary roads turn to ‘tracks’. The highways are fine.
Post by: Pottsy on May 02, 2019, 08:09:27 PM
As we move to be less reliant on coal and fossil fuels where is the base load power going to come from?
Post by: sharkcaver on May 02, 2019, 08:34:27 PM
Has anyone got any ideas on how much it costs to recharge your car, is it meant to be cheaper than petrol/ diesel?
Petrol/diesel has far more energy stored within a kilogram of the stuff than a kilogram of coal. So you have to consume a whole lot more coal to produce the same energy output. Petrol/diesel around 44Mj/Kg, coal around 20Mj/kg. You almost need twice as much coal for the same energy output.
The question I would like to see answered:
How much greenhouse gas is produced burning a Kg of petrol/diesel compared to burning the equivalent energy output of coal (near 2Kg)?
Renewables may become an answer in the future, but we need to see a large cost reduction for it to compete with coal.
That's why dino fuels still rule atm.
With advances in tech and cost reductions, I'm sure elec vehicles will become cost competitive at some stage in the future and cleaner than they are now.
But that's not going to help a vast, remote arid continent like we live in unless we want to be city bound.
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 08:35:24 PM
I have solar and batteries. Battery (Powerwall 2) was installed August 2017. I have not paid a power bill since then.
I am about to add more solar and another Powerwall 2 to my setup. I will then be 100% self sufficient
But I agree, base load power is required until an alternative cheap renewable power source is developed. I am fortunate to be able to afford my setup.
It looks like Domestic solar and batteries with gas turbines will be Labour’s short to medium term solution.
Post by: Bigpickle on May 02, 2019, 09:04:16 PM
The majority of opinions are direct quotes from either Morrison or Shorten with a smattering of " I heard that...."
If you are going to post at least try and post something relevant or informed rather than recycled political claptrap.
Post by: alnjan on May 02, 2019, 09:18:46 PM
https://www.drivezero.com.au/electric-car-charging-stations/ (https://www.drivezero.com.au/electric-car-charging-stations/)
Post by: corndog on May 02, 2019, 09:27:10 PM
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 09:35:04 PM
I find it astounding that on a Forum where motor vehicles are at least 50% of the topics, there are so many uninformed people posting uninformed opinions.
The majority of opinions are direct quotes from either Morrison or Shorten with a smattering of " I heard that...."
If you are going to post at least try and post something relevant or informed rather than recycled political claptrap.
That will be difficult for me since I am not creative and do not create new stuff, I just recycle and re-post, so will try and port (RE-post) less.
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 09:45:02 PM
Can someone tell me how many more solar farms, wind farms, battery banks etc. are going to be needed to charge all these electric cars that are driving around our roads in say 30 years time, as well as supply power to the 10,15,20 mllion or more people that will be living and working in this country,
It does not answer your question but see page 8, visual presentation of key stats.
Page 23, table 3.2 provide hard stats that states what everyone knows, renewables is a long way of to replace fossil fuel.
Solar farms (2016/17) produced 0.3% of the total output.
https://www.energy.gov.au/sites/default/files/australian_energy_update_2018.pdf (https://www.energy.gov.au/sites/default/files/australian_energy_update_2018.pdf)
Post by: KeithB on May 02, 2019, 09:51:46 PM
On EV's a lot of people ask rhetorical questions like:
"How are we going to charge it?"
"How long will I have to queue up to get a charge?"
"How will the grid cope with all of these charging stations?"
"What if I want to travel into regional areas?"
"Where is the energy going to come from to charge all of these EVs?"
"When will EVs be affordable?"
"If nobody is paying petrol tax, how are we going to pay for the roads?"
"How long will I have to queue up to get a charge?"
"How will the grid cope with all of these charging stations?"
"What if I want to travel into regional areas?"
"Where is the energy going to come from to charge all of these EVs?"
"When will EVs be affordable?"
"If nobody is paying petrol tax, how are we going to pay for the roads?"
These questions are raised by the questioner more as an exclamation more than a question. It's as though, because they don't know the answer, there is no answer.
Just look at mobile phones from 20 years ago and compare that to now. Every smart phone is a sophisticated computer. And that happened in less than a dozen or so years.
There is world wide rush by governments and manufacturers to EVs. Scientists everywhere are working on new battery technology. One program at the University of Sydney is aiming at getting batteries down to $100 per KWH within two or three years and is running small scale trials right now
Here's my fearless forecast for
EVs will be at least as cheap as petrol cars.
People will still have big diesel 4x4s for recreational and possibly farm use.
Range will be around 600km and they will suit super fast capacitor chargers.
Every service station will have multiple fast charging stations.
Something else will get taxed to make up the lost fuel excise, possibly a lift in the GST.
I'm looking forward to the arrival of EVs and one will probably be our next second car.
Keith
[/list][/list][/list][/list]
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 09:56:28 PM
Your 2005 forecast was not out by much.
Any change of picking the lotto numbers for me.
Post by: gronk on May 02, 2019, 09:56:55 PM
Can someone tell me how many more solar farms, wind farms, battery banks etc. are going to be needed to charge all these electric cars that are driving around our roads in say 30 years time, as well as supply power to the 10,15,20 mllion or more people that will be living and working in this country,
I see electric cars as a short term feel good solution to a problem that isn't yet a problem. The problem is the people who think we can dump coal powered stations before we can reliably and CHEAPLY supply that power with something else.
When the world HAS to go away from fossil fueled cars, it may be another fossil fuel....maybe nuclear of some description......and if I had the answer to that, I would be richer than Elon Musk..
Post by: gronk on May 02, 2019, 10:00:59 PM
I'm looking forward to the arrival of EVs and one will probably be our next second car.
Keith
[/list][/list][/list][/list]
They're here now.....rush out now and buy one. They're only approx twice the price of the similar petrol ones !!
Post by: tryagain on May 02, 2019, 10:29:41 PM
I have seen some videos on YouTube of people trecking across the US in there Tesla, the Car guides them to the Supercharger in the town, they hook it up and tell them how long it will take them to get enough charge to get to the next stop, they go off to get a feed and the Car messages them in half an hr (or less for a part charge) or so to let them know it's good to go.
Sure we don't have the charging infrastructure in place here yet that they do, but Tesla probably already has more chargers than you realise and that number will only grow.
Post by: Paddler Ed on May 02, 2019, 10:59:57 PM
From the Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/inquirer/if-car-ownership-keeps-growing-australians-will-be-outnumbered/news-story/92f65fe440421d9ede7155e895db723c):
Quote
In the City of Melbourne, 76 per cent of households (mostly apartments and terraces) report having no car. In the Sydney CBD including Haymarket and The Rocks the no-car community comprises 57 per cent of all households. In the Adelaide CBD this proportion is 40 per cent while in central Brisbane it is 35 per cent.
Whilst in the USA they're seeing that some age groups are less likely to own a car than their parents or grandparents at the same age https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/demographic-shifts-shaping-future-car-ownership/ (https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/demographic-shifts-shaping-future-car-ownership/)
So what does that mean? I use my brother here as an example. He's 35, and has only owned a car since he was 33. Prior to that he's never needed to own a car living in either London or Melbourne. In contrast, I'm 39 and I've owned or leased a car since I was 21. 4 years age difference, different places lived in (I've never lived in a big city since I was at uni for my undergraduate degree) and I think that's part of the approach to car ownership now. He wanted to go somewhere? He hired a car, or he'd fly there and then hire a car, or, in the UK, he'd get the train and then get picked up.
We've going to have an increasing urbanisation of the population - Outside of the Greater Capital City Statistical Areas there only lives 32.99% (2016) of the population (Australian Bureau of Statistics, 2018) and that area is 99.28% of Australia’s land mass - and therefore, they don't need their own cars as much if there are viable substitute modes of transport (train, share cars or bikes, buses, trams, light rail, ride sharing) that mean they don't need to incur the cost of their own vehicle.
If they can get the induction charging to work (which is getting close) (https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/what-is-electric-car-wireless-charging-wevc-and-how-does-it-work-/) imagine being able to pick up a share car (GoGet or similar) that is parked over a charging pad, drive it to where you need to get to, park it on the nearest induction pad and off you go. Something like this (https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/21/18276541/norway-oslo-wireless-charging-electric-taxis-car-zero-emissions-induction) is already happening with some transport options like taxis. That'll solve most city driving requirements as the normal city distance is under 50km IIRC - the power used to cover that in terms of CO2 generation in an EV will be a fraction of what it would be in an IC vehicle, especially given the gridlock that most capital city roads are.
On the other hand, and I seem to keep saying this, I think that agricultural applications will also go to EVs - they have the benefit of huge amount of torque (why are so many trains diesel electric? why are the big mine dump trucks diesel electric?_ that can be applied directly to the wheel that needs it with individual motors. They also have the space for solar set ups. Now imagine a drop in and drop out battery pack in the autonomous ag machine (hey, most tractors now have the gear to get to at least to Level 3, nearly level 4 of the SAE Autonomous vehicle grades and some mine trucks are running at Level 5)
(https://www.autonomousvehicletech.com/ext/resources/AVT/2018/12-December/20181214-SAE-image_web.jpg?1544813712)
So what does that mean for us?
Well, for me, probably SFA. I live in regional NSW, we don't have the mature car sharing options, we don't even have Uber (and it's nearly 40,000 population LGA). Nor do we have any charging stations in town... but come school holidays, we do get plenty of Teslas in town, so they obviously charge up somewhere.
Now, if a Tesla has a range of 450km (give or take - that's approaching maximum range), realistically that's about 5hrs driving. Driving safely, you'd have had a break after 2 to 3hrs for a feed and you might have been able to lob 30-45mins charge in then, so you're then good for perhaps a total of 650km... so all of a sudden that 30minute break is extending your range by 400km each time.
OK, it'll change how you camp, so that might be a bit of a culture shock for some people... I'm sure there'll be solutions worked out by National Sparks and Wildfires at some of their visitor locations (Dorrigo springs to mind, as does the QLD NP around Giraween and the Pyramid rocks).
In response to the comment of how are we going to have enough electricity for everyone? Well, all we need to do is use less of it to begin with, and perhaps be more selective in how we use it.
- Does your house have aircon?
- If your house was designed differently would it be possible to do away with aircon? WA are starting to wise up on it (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-16/the-hidden-costs-of-mcmansions/10981336 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-16/the-hidden-costs-of-mcmansions/10981336))
- Do you have LED lighting in the house? NSW have a big drive on to help businesses reduce their energy usage by changing to more efficient technologies
- Do you shop on the street or in a shopping centre? If you shop in a shopping centre (Westfields etc) are you shopping in somewhere that is trying to keep cool a giant (normally grey or black) box with loads of electric lights in it, and no natural lighting? In comparison, a traditional streetscape could operate with much less light and no air conditioning for the communal area as it's open air.
Just some bits to think about...
Lastly, manufacturers will change to ensure their survivability. I remember talking to someone who said 10 years ago their typical customer was a 50 year old who enjoyed activity x; now their typical customer is a 60 year old who enjoys activity x... ie it hasn't changed, and in another 20 years will have died off... leaving them no customer... They're looking at diversifying to ensure they remain competitive and in existence.
Post by: KeithB on May 02, 2019, 11:17:08 PM
Keith
Your 2005 forecast was not out by much.
Any change of picking the lotto numbers for me.
Oopos. Typo now fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.
Paddler Ed, that is a most informative post. Thank you for that.
I have been looking at a string on another forum where electric cars have come up. The idiot fringe has come out of the woodwork in numbers, raving about Bill Shorten and the disaster that will befall us if Labor is elected. The level if technical illiteracy in this area is nothing short of alarming.
Three days ago, we put in a 10Kw solar setup with a 13.2 KWH Tesla battery. Yesterday we did 95% of our own power on a cloudy day with my wife vacuuming, pool pump for 3 hours, a load of washing and a dishwasher in the mix. Finished up at zero charge at midnight. Today has been overcast with a patch of sun around mid day. Have drawn just 1.4KWH from the mains for brekky and the battery is now at 30 per cent. The next exercise is to go with LED bulbs and chase down any electrical thieves in the house. The heated tower rail in the bathroom comes to mind.
Keith
Post by: JusyApples on May 03, 2019, 06:22:59 AM
Oopos. Typo now fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.Guess what Keith not everyone is in your circumstance and can afford solar systems. Some people live in apartments or townhouses and have off street parking. Are people going to run extension cords out onto the street?
Paddler Ed, that is a most informative post. Thank you for that.
I have been looking at a string on another forum where electric cars have come up. The idiot fringe has come out of the woodwork in numbers, raving about Bill Shorten and the disaster that will befall us if Labor is elected. The level if technical illiteracy in this area is nothing short of alarming.
Three days ago, we put in a 10Kw solar setup with a 13.2 KWH Tesla battery. Yesterday we did 95% of our own power on a cloudy day with my wife vacuuming, pool pump for 3 hours, a load of washing and a dishwasher in the mix. Finished up at zero charge at midnight. Today has been overcast with a patch of sun around mid day. Have drawn just 1.4KWH from the mains for brekky and the battery is now at 30 per cent. The next exercise is to go with LED bulbs and chase down any electrical thieves in the house. The heated tower rail in the bathroom comes to mind.
Keith
Or in my circumstance where we had some quotes for solar, due to our neighbour having a two story house and our back neighbour having a tree it’s not viable for us to have solar.
Just because you have it doesn’t mean millions of other households can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: gronk on May 03, 2019, 06:50:09 AM
I think most people make a much bigger deal out of charging than it really is, with a 500ish km range, you will just charge at home 95% of the time, when you are doing a greater than that trip is when you will use a super charger.
I have seen some videos on YouTube of people trecking across the US in there Tesla, the Car guides them to the Supercharger in the town, they hook it up and tell them how long it will take them to get enough charge to get to the next stop, they go off to get a feed and the Car messages them in half an hr (or less for a part charge) or so to let them know it's good to go.
Sure we don't have the charging infrastructure in place here yet that they do, but Tesla probably already has more chargers than you realise and that number will only grow.
The problem is we live in a society that doesn't wait for anything........waiting around for a car to charge is a big turn off for most.
I'm sure they'll have a better idea soon, but having to physically plug a car into a charger every night at home is also a major turnoff ..
Post by: Spada on May 03, 2019, 07:14:05 AM
it's amazing what industries can achieve the the marked shows there is money to be made.
I suspect over the next decade or so we will see huge advances in electric vehicle technology. I'm currently working on a project at work mapping delivery routes for several hundred electric delivery vehicles that are coming over the next 12 months, and the bit I'm working on is only 1 small piece of a significantly larger project that is being done with future needs in mind.
I can see a significant cultural shift occurring in metropolitan areas over the next decade or so, but not so much in rural/remote areas? As for the loss in petrol excise, I've no doubt the government (of whatever persuasion) will find a way to introduce a distance based road tax (my tinfoil hat thinks your smart car will probably be reporting your travelled distance all by itself?)
Post by: KeithB on May 03, 2019, 07:28:36 AM
Guess what Keith not everyone is in your circumstance and can afford solar systems. Some people live in apartments or townhouses and have off street parking. Are people going to run extension cords out onto the street?
Or in my circumstance where we had some quotes for solar, due to our neighbour having a two story house and our back neighbour having a tree it’s not viable for us to have solar.
Just because you have it doesn’t mean millions of other households can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My guess is that there will be plenty of charging stations and no need to run a lead into the street. The Clean Energy Council says that there are already 2 million households with solar panels. But there are only 33,000 with batteries and with 70,000 tipped by the end of the year. There is currently a 4 week wait to get a Tesla battery. But, as JusyApples says, not everyone can go solar.
We did the solar battery thing because it gives a return on investment of 11% which you can't get investing anywhere else.
Australians have always been early adopters of technology and I bet EVs will be no different, once they become affordable and the charging infrastructure starts to look viable.
Keith
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 08:02:02 AM
I see the man that almost singlehandedly destroyed a whole car manufacturing industry in this country has now said if the global industry wants to force us towards EVs then he’ll just start up our own vehicle manufacturing industry over here.
Awesome plan!
Now, just remind me. Where did we put all of those 100s of skilled workers again.... ???
Post by: chester ver2.0 on May 03, 2019, 08:13:54 AM
The problem is we live in a society that doesn't wait for anything........waiting around for a car to charge is a big turn off for most.
I'm sure they'll have a better idea soon, but having to physically plug a car into a charger every night at home is also a major turnoff ..
Really i would much rather do that than have to go to a smelly servo slip ass over tit on some oil and then have my hands smell like diesel for the next hour as the pump handle is that dirty.
Honestly the way the tech is going i will bet within 5 years there will be a 2 minute super charge station that will get you say 200k till you can get the thing fully charged
I personally love the concept and it goes with my eventual off grid lifestyle of solar on the roof at home going into a tesla battery or similar which would be charging my EV in the garage and powering the house
If the Rivan ute comes out with a reasonable sticker price i would buy one tomorrow
Post by: edz on May 03, 2019, 08:16:44 AM
Found theres plenty of choices around and BLOODY CHEAP too, you can even easily afford a Bugatti Veyeron or Lambo ..
The Chinks have been flooding the fleabay / Amazombie etc markets with Solar rechargability ready Electric recyclable knock offs that are way ahead of the major brands to pick up the slack from the usual big auto makers .... $199 to just over a $1000 and some come with spare battery packs ..
Hell they even did a knock off of Petes Jeep, talk about offering " personalized customability " Just so as you wont miss your old fossil fuel guzzler when you switch over . ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Bigfish on May 03, 2019, 08:35:02 AM
All this yapping on about electric cars will do this's and wont do thats, recharge times, etc etc cars too expensive 50% by 2030 ..
Found theres plenty of choices around and BLOODY CHEAP too, you can even easily afford a Bugatti Veyeron or Lambo ..
The Chinks have been flooding the fleabay / Amazombie etc markets with Solar rechargability ready Electric recyclable knock offs that are way ahead of the major brands to pick up the slack from the usual big auto makers .... $199 to just over a $1000 and some come with spare battery packs ..
Hell they even did a knock off of Petes Jeep, talk about offering " personalized customability " Just so as you wont miss your old fossil fuel guzzler when you switch over . ;D ;D ;D
:cup:
Post by: Pottsy on May 03, 2019, 08:43:41 AM
Can you imagine myswag electrical section discussing fast chargers etc, break out the popcorn, sit back and watch the s....t fly.
Post by: Paddler Ed on May 03, 2019, 09:01:36 AM
I'm not sure if this needs to be in the electrical section, but will you have to take your car to an electrician for servicing. :D
Can you imagine myswag electrical section discussing fast chargers etc, break out the popcorn, sit back and watch the s....t fly.
Know someone who works for a BMW dealership in the UK, and he's the one who does the EVs. 240V by all accounts is tame in comparison, you're dealing with much higher volts and amps IIRC. Workshops will need to be bigger for clear zones, workshop times will be longer whilst you wait for things to downcharge, never mind the training needed to work on them.
Post by: Bigfish on May 03, 2019, 09:28:20 AM
Know someone who works for a BMW dealership in the UK, and he's the one who does the EVs. 240V by all accounts is tame in comparison, you're dealing with much higher volts and amps IIRC. Workshops will need to be bigger for clear zones, workshop times will be longer whilst you wait for things to downcharge, never mind the training needed to work on them.
The other issue will be spare parts. Tesla have a bad reputation for supplying and distributing parts.
Post by: edz on May 03, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
Post by: Bird on May 03, 2019, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: chester ver2.0
Really i would much rather do that than have to go to a smelly servo slip ass over tit on some oil and then have my hands smell like diesel for the next hour as the pump handle is that dirtyHow often does that happen these days? About never? or if your worried, pair of leather gloves like old bloke in the club does.
once trendy cars became diesel and ladies started drivin em, things changed.... If you go the truck section of a servo, things are different. the servo near work just had their 12 pumps upgraded to all have all 4 fuels (ulp, 95, 98) and diesel..
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 10:08:40 AM
How often does that happen these days? About never?Every time.
And absolutly guanteed to happen if you're wearing a crisp white business shirt on your way to a very important meeting.
Nothing like shaking hands with decision makers to discuss new clean technologies when you smell like an oil rig.... >:(
Edit;
Not actually slipping over, but getting diesel all over your hands and splashed on your shirt sleeves..
Post by: Bigfish on May 03, 2019, 10:14:41 AM
Every time.
And absolutly guanteed to happen if you're wearing a crisp white business shirt on your way to a very important meeting.
Nothing like shaking hands with decision makers to discuss new clean technologies when you smell like an oil rig.... >:(
Edit;
Not actually slipping over, but getting diesel all over your hands and splashed on your shirt sleeves..
Every servo I have been to has a water tap/bucket and towel for washing drying hands. If its a common occurrence carry a small liquid soap bottle in door trim...works for me...
Post by: macca on May 03, 2019, 10:24:20 AM
Every time.You're supposed to put the nozzle into the fuel tank filler then pull the trigger
And absolutly guanteed to happen if you're wearing a crisp white business shirt on your way to a very important meeting.
Nothing like shaking hands with decision makers to discuss new clean technologies when you smell like an oil rig.... >:(
Edit;
Not actually slipping over, but getting diesel all over your hands and splashed on your shirt sleeves..
Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Post by: Hoyks on May 03, 2019, 10:25:33 AM
The other issue will be spare parts. Tesla have a bad reputation for supplying and distributing parts.
Yes, they only supply them to be fitted by approved repairers. Anything goes phut and you have to take it to a dealer or try and repair it yourself.
This guy wouldn't take no for an answer and has basically a Tesla wreckers yard in his basement.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA)
Who Killed The Electric Car is also worth a watch, their arguement was that the car manufacturers nobbled the electric car because all that wears out are brakes and wheel bearing (and with regen braking, brakes don't get used as much). So your dealer sell a a car into a competitive market and gets a low margin, then gets stuff all from the workshop as the customer doesn't need to come back for adjustments and fluid changes every 6 months as there are hardly any moving parts or lubricants required.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3OnYjP4FTk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3OnYjP4FTk)
Personally, I'd love an electric car and have toyed with the idea of buying a Sierra with a clapped out motor and filling the space between the chassis rails with cells and a nice little 3 phase motor directly driving the gearbox. I'm 26km from work, so a fully charged battery will see me being able to drive that for 3 days with no extra electrons being added.
If running into the city, then I'm probably going for an appointment/meeting/shopping trip and will be stopped at the other end for at least an hour, so plugging it in to ensure I have more than enough power to get home isn't really an issue. Right now its finding a place to plug it in.
I'd keep the ute for my weekend or longer trips and save putting 300km/week on it for nothing and stockpile the fuel and $$. I really don't need a 3.2L diesel and 2000kg of steel and aluminium to shift just me to work, but can't really afford to own and maintain another vehicle.
Oil is running out, we can all agree on that, so finding ways to extend what we have is a good idea in my opinion.
The only way it is going to happen is to make it economically viable for companies to experiment and improve on what they have.
Petrol cars were unreliable rubbish when they first came out and you had to scrounge around to find fuel as there were no servos. But there were $$ in it, so fuel service stations sprang up to fix the crappy cars and manufactures worked to improve them to a point where they said it was good enough to have a massive inefficient poorly handling barge that would kill you in a crash, then governments said try harder and massive leaps in efficiency took place.
Same with crash-worthness and occupant safety, but only because it was legislated and made economically viable to do so.
No one is going to prise your Hilux keys from your cold, dead fingers, just remove some of the current impediments to electric vehicle ownership so people are more interested in getting one.
With all the electric cars and people using their own power to charge them, then I can see the fuel excise and rego going up to compensate. A bit like diesels in NZ where you have to estimate your annual km when you pay your rego.
I have plenty of roof for panels and a chainsaw to deal with any pesky shade trees, so I have no issue with solar. I'm even happy to take your tax $$ to subsidise my new batteries. I will be generous though, and feed some of the power back at peak demand times and get more than the pathetic 17c/kW they are paying me for it now.
Now, if they invented a battery where you pulled up at a servo, drain out the electrolyte and refilled it with freshly charged fluid or got the hydrogen fuel cell up and running, then watch the oil companies get onboard. Both would keep you tethered to the existing infrastructure and the fuel companies balance sheets.
Post by: chester ver2.0 on May 03, 2019, 10:26:48 AM
Every servo I have been to has a water tap/bucket and towel for washing drying hands. If its a common occurrence carry a small liquid soap bottle in door trim...works for me...
Christ where do you live every servo i go to the paper towel has been empty since 1979, the water bucket is that filthy it should be classified as its own ecosystem and some bugger has taken the top off the tap so you cant turn it on
Post by: tryagain on May 03, 2019, 10:50:10 AM
The problem is we live in a society that doesn't wait for anything........waiting around for a car to charge is a big turn off for most.
I'm sure they'll have a better idea soon, but having to physically plug a car into a charger every night at home is also a major turnoff ..
I think you are kind of grasping at straws, they aren't really "waiting" it's charging whilst they have a break, unless you are driving for hours and hours and hours without a break, it just a matter of coinciding a break with the charging. Plugging in a charger every night will still probably be a reasonable time saving over having to fill up at a petrol station so I don't really think it's an issue at all, more of a perception vs reality thing.
I am not trying to paint it as perfect, as it isn't, but not as bad as people try to make out, and it will only improve from here.
Post by: edz on May 03, 2019, 10:54:10 AM
Post by: tryagain on May 03, 2019, 11:07:02 AM
Ownership of cars is falling amongst those who live in the cities - not just in Australia, but worldwide in the EU, USA and other "developed" countries:.........I think this is actually the more interesting point, mass adoption of EV's I think is a given, it's that in 20yrs whether we will own them, or drive them that is the more interesting point. Tesla apparently has put in their contract for people leasing their new model 3's in the US that they can't buy them out at the end of the lease as they plan to use them in their autonomous fleet after the lease period. I don't see the ICE going anywhere anytime soon, but expect to see rapid development in the EV and Automation sectors.
Post by: Steffo1 on May 03, 2019, 11:09:04 AM
When they have the means, they will then give covert permission to our government to "Implement Policies" on EVs that will make all parties smell like roses.
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 11:30:06 AM
Personally, I'd love an electric car and have toyed with the idea of buying a Sierra with a clapped out motor and filling the space between the chassis rails with cells and a nice little 3 phase motor directly driving the gearbox. I'm 26km from work, so a fully charged battery will see me being able to drive that for 3 days with no extra electrons being added.
If running into the city, then I'm probably going for an appointment/meeting/shopping trip and will be stopped at the other end for at least an hour, so plugging it in to ensure I have more than enough power to get home isn't really an issue. Right now its finding a place to plug it in.
I'd keep the ute for my weekend or longer trips and save putting 300km/week on it for nothing and stockpile the fuel and $$. I really don't need a 3.2L diesel and 2000kg of steel and aluminium to shift just me to work, but can't really afford to own and maintain another vehicle.
Something a bit like this one?
https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?threads/fuzzychops-lj50-suzuki-trip-across-the-simmo.37585/ (https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?threads/fuzzychops-lj50-suzuki-trip-across-the-simmo.37585/)
Post by: alnjan on May 03, 2019, 11:31:17 AM
I think most people make a much bigger deal out of charging than it really is, with a 500ish km range, you will just charge at home 95% of the time, when you are doing a greater than that trip is when you will use a super charger.
I have seen some videos on YouTube of people trecking across the US in there Tesla, the Car guides them to the Supercharger in the town, they hook it up and tell them how long it will take them to get enough charge to get to the next stop, they go off to get a feed and the Car messages them in half an hr (or less for a part charge) or so to let them know it's good to go.
Sure we don't have the charging infrastructure in place here yet that they do, but Tesla probably already has more chargers than you realise and that number will only grow.
Works okay if your EV takes the rapid charge, not all do, the others still take the slow charge. Noticed in the link I put above a lot of EV charges are going in accommodation spots, motels etc to take the overnight charge.
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 11:39:08 AM
My take on the whole thing is that nothing concrete will happen until the big oil companies work out a way (if they haven't got a blueprint already) to gain the majority of supply to EVs, as they have with liquid and gas fuel.
That horse has well and truly bolted.....
Quote
Shell aims to make electricity a significant part of its business. Shell’s New Energies business is seeking to leverage the company’s strengths in fast-growing and commercial parts of the energy industry and could spend on average between $1-2 billion a year until 2020 on commercial opportunities.https://www.shell.com.au/media/2019-media-releases/smart-energy-storage-systems.html (https://www.shell.com.au/media/2019-media-releases/smart-energy-storage-systems.html)
Quote
BP has announced a $20 million investment in ultra-fast-charging battery start-up company StoreDot, which is developing technology that could eventually see electric vehicle (EV) charging times fall to five minutes.https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/news-and-insights/bp-magazine/bp-invests-in-ultra-fast-charging-battery-company-storedot.html (https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/news-and-insights/bp-magazine/bp-invests-in-ultra-fast-charging-battery-company-storedot.html)
Post by: Steffo1 on May 03, 2019, 11:43:15 AM
Post by: tryagain on May 03, 2019, 11:44:35 AM
Works okay if your EV takes the rapid charge, not all do, the others still take the slow charge. Noticed in the link I put above a lot of EV charges are going in accommodation spots, motels etc to take the overnight charge.
True, but most being sold now do, I think it will be fairly standard going forward. It's mainly the early iterations that don't AFAIK
Post by: Bird on May 03, 2019, 11:46:46 AM
Quote from: Steffo1
This was in Paris in 2015. I have no idea about how or who pays what. Credit card, perhaps? It is just in a side street.but who wants to drive some hideous Shitheap like that? Roomy for you and your jumper. So thats your city car, then you need your family car, then you need your towing car, and your sports car... sounding good at rego time.
Post by: Hoyks on May 03, 2019, 12:06:23 PM
Something a bit like this one?A '97/98 model with the coils as they rode so much better, but if I won lotto, you'd probably find a new Jimny motor on gumtree soon after.
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 12:08:11 PM
A '97/98 model with the coils as they rode so much better, but if I won lotto, you'd probably find a new Jimny motor on gumtree soon after.But a 1999 model Jimny and give me the EFI engine for my Sierra. ;)
Post by: Hoyks on May 03, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
But a 1999 model Jimny and give me the EFI engine for my Sierra. ;)
If I win lotto, you can have the 2018 efi for your sierra.
Works okay if your EV takes the rapid charge, not all do, the others still take the slow charge. Noticed in the link I put above a lot of EV charges are going in accommodation spots, motels etc to take the overnight charge.Pretty sure with this developing technology that some bits have been future proofed to some extent, in that when you plug in the charging lead, the ECU and charger will do a bit of electronic secret handshake trickery and the battery cells will be provided with the optimum power they need to charge and be within the bounds of what the charger can supply and what the battery management system will accept.
Wilbur and Orville didn't duck over to London in January 1904, these things take time to develop and infrastructure to adapt.
I really can't understand the negativity/visceral hate for EV's, if you don't want one or you don't think it will suit your lifestyle, don't get one.
Post by: alnjan on May 03, 2019, 01:25:50 PM
but who wants to drive some hideous Shitheap like that? Roomy for you and your jumper. So thats your city car, then you need your family car, then you need your towing car, and your sports car... sounding good at rego time.
Can always have this
https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/ (https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5foN9lsOGQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5foN9lsOGQ)
Post by: edz on May 03, 2019, 02:42:01 PM
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/scientists-planning-now-for-asteroid-flyby-a-decade-away (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/scientists-planning-now-for-asteroid-flyby-a-decade-away)
Post by: Bird on May 03, 2019, 03:10:58 PM
May not have top worry about it for long, the Russians are saying a hit in 2036 and the Yanks are talking a very close flyby in 2039,:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( its missing us :'(
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/asteroids/news/asteroid20130110.html (https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/asteroids/news/asteroid20130110.html)
Post by: Traveller on May 03, 2019, 03:20:17 PM
https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/pickeringpost/10000000_2620908001312566_9040462958240691743_n.mp4 (https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/pickeringpost/10000000_2620908001312566_9040462958240691743_n.mp4)
Post by: gronk on May 03, 2019, 07:49:55 PM
Every time.
And absolutly guanteed to happen if you're wearing a crisp white business shirt on your way to a very important meeting.
Nothing like shaking hands with decision makers to discuss new clean technologies when you smell like an oil rig.... >:(
Edit;
Not actually slipping over, but getting diesel all over your hands and splashed on your shirt sleeves..
Never happened in the last 10yrs for me.....oh wait.....a bit of diesel spilled onto the ground once...same as the petrol did once.....but nothing on me ....but then again, I can eat spagetti bol without spilling it on the front of my shirt ( sober of course )..
Post by: sharkcaver on May 03, 2019, 08:44:10 PM
I really can't understand the negativity/visceral hate for EV's, if you don't want one or you don't think it will suit your lifestyle, don't get one.Cause I cant cross the Anne Beadell Highway with a leccy vehicle, for one reason.
City bound, leccy vehicles may work, rural/remote forget it.
Rest assured, there wont be one in my garage anytime soon, so you can breathe easy.
Post by: alnjan on May 03, 2019, 09:08:01 PM
Cause I cant cross the Anne Beadell Highway with a leccy vehicle, for one reason.
City bound, leccy vehicles may work, rural/remote forget it.
Rest assured, there wont be one in my garage anytime soon, so you can breathe easy.
Surprising where some charging stations are
https://www.drivezero.com.au/electric-car-charging-stations/#all (https://www.drivezero.com.au/electric-car-charging-stations/#all)
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 09:47:04 PM
Never happened in the last 10yrs for me.....oh wait.....a bit of diesel spilled onto the ground once...same as the petrol did once.....but nothing on me ....but then again, I can eat spagetti bol without spilling it on the front of my shirt ( sober of course )..Let me guess, your high flow pumps actually have high flow as well... ???
Our local diesel pumps have had about 3 or 4 sets of nozzles fitted over the last 18 months.
I jokingly asked the Veeder-root guy if he was fixing the leak or making it pump properly when he was there a couple of months ago. He laughed and said ‘one or the other I guess’. Turns out he couldn’t do either.....
I’d happily take a photo of the mountain of kitty litter on the floor and the empty paper dispenser on the post beside the diesel pump, but I don’t want the cranky old lady behind the counter yelling at my for using my phone at the bowsers... ;)
Post by: gronk on May 03, 2019, 09:56:51 PM
Let me guess, your high flow pumps actually have high flow as well... ???
Our local diesel pumps have had about 3 or 4 sets of nozzles fitted over the last 18 months.
I jokingly asked the Veeder-root guy if he was fixing the leak or making it pump properly when he was there a couple of months ago. He laughed and said ‘one or the other I guess’. Turns out he couldn’t do either.....
I’d happily take a photo of the mountain of kitty litter on the floor and the empty paper dispenser on the post beside the diesel pump, but I don’t want the cranky old lady behind the counter yelling at my for using my phone at the bowsers... ;)
Locally I fill up at maybe 3 different locations...when out camping up to 2hrs away from home....never had a problem filling up...either on normal or high flow.
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 10:13:00 PM
Locally I fill up at maybe 3 different locations...when out camping up to 2hrs away from home....never had a problem filling up...either on normal or high flow.$1.48 at the pump 1km from home.
Next closest pump to me is $1.53 and that’s 13km away.
However, if we had electric cars none of this would matter anyway..... ;)
Quote
Earlier this year, the Queensland government completed its electric car "super highway" which allows electric car owners to drive all the way from Cairns to Coolangatta.
Electric charging at the stations will be free for the first 12 months before fees are introduced, bringing the cost to charge an average car to about $45.
https://sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/electric-vehicle-charging-network-now-spans-almost/3433971/ (https://sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/electric-vehicle-charging-network-now-spans-almost/3433971/)
Post by: tryagain on May 03, 2019, 10:25:55 PM
I am one off those bragging rights people because I have order and paid for my Model 3
I will keep my Landcruiser 76 because the Government will not be able to pay for all the Non-Federal highways maintenance since everyone will be driving electrical cars and no one will be paying the fuel levy for the road maintenance. Back roads will be dirt roads so you will need a 4wd to travel outside the cities or on the secondary road between cities.
OK, not really true but who will pay for the road maintenance is if no-one is buying fuel?
It amaze me when I visits the family is South Africa every 4 years how the potholes are getting bigger and the secondary roads turn to ‘tracks’. The highways are fine.
If you can afford it and that's how you would like to spend your $$$ then half your luck, have they got Australian pricing for them yet as I haven't seen a local price for them. Which is the elephant in the room that none of the knockers has bought up yet, the Model S is about $125-200K depending on options, as I mentioned, I haven't seen exactly what the Model 3 will go for here but should be within reach of a lot more, it still wont be "cheap" though.
In regards to road maintenance, they will just swap to a Km travelled tax instead, but they will wait until after there has been mass takeup of them to do that. As someone else said, they will probably make the cars self report.
Post by: Alan Loy on May 04, 2019, 08:49:06 AM
Post by: Fizzie on May 04, 2019, 11:24:06 AM
but then again, I can eat spagetti bol without spilling it on the front of my shirt ( sober of course )..
Now you're just boasting, Gronk! ;D
Post by: PWE on May 04, 2019, 02:43:55 PM
Elon said USA price plus exchange rate, AU import tax and possibly luxury car tax
So, I have budget for $70k
Post by: JusyApples on May 04, 2019, 06:23:26 PM
$1.48 at the pump 1km from home.They will probably charge you depending on their electricity rate
Next closest pump to me is $1.53 and that’s 13km away.
However, if we had electric cars none of this would matter anyway..... ;)
https://sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/electric-vehicle-charging-network-now-spans-almost/3433971/ (https://sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/electric-vehicle-charging-network-now-spans-almost/3433971/)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: gronk on May 04, 2019, 06:39:14 PM
seems the price of electric cars is falling with the Hyundai IONIQ at around $50K. Still not cheap but better.
Still twice the price of the similar petrol model !! That's a lot of money for an electric motor and a battery bank !!
Post by: gronk on May 04, 2019, 06:42:37 PM
Now you're just boasting, Gronk! ;D
OK, 90% of the time !! ;D
Post by: GeoffA on May 04, 2019, 06:54:10 PM
Still twice the price of the similar petrol model !!.........
....and they're coal-powered....
Post by: gronk on May 04, 2019, 07:53:58 PM
....and they're coal-powered....
Yep.....if you want to recharge your elect car at 1am of a night....long after your powerwall has run out of puff, and still 7hrs until the solar panels recharge the powerwall, you are stuck with a recharge from the grid.....coal fired !! :cup:
Post by: tryagain on May 04, 2019, 08:46:48 PM
Still twice the price of the similar petrol model !! That's a lot of money for an electric motor and a battery bank !!
That is somewhat offset against lower maintenance costs and it being a lot cheaper to run an EV (approx 3-4 times cheaper). Of course part of the reason for that is the lack of excise on the electricity and that may change in the future. Doesn't yet make them the better financial option, but levels it bit.
Post by: Hoyks on May 04, 2019, 10:22:45 PM
(https://scontent.fbne6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.2147-6/c0.61.540.282a/p540x282/59691502_346483696006669_8636864505642483712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent.fbne6-1.fna&oh=3cf32936f4d4825656d196bf6c1e03ec&oe=5D750801)
https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/EF/Areas/Electricity-grids-and-systems/Economic-modelling/efutures?fbclid=IwAR1FGi_w6_w7E4ehqrgkPouiZkLSiHxCk8jUiB_hu7a3ik3xtMzWkp9Exh8 (https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/EF/Areas/Electricity-grids-and-systems/Economic-modelling/efutures?fbclid=IwAR1FGi_w6_w7E4ehqrgkPouiZkLSiHxCk8jUiB_hu7a3ik3xtMzWkp9Exh8)
Post by: GeoffA on May 04, 2019, 10:31:05 PM
Post by: edz on May 04, 2019, 11:36:06 PM
But But But I'm doing my bit to Save the planet they Bleat :angel: ;D ;D ::) ;D ;D ;D
Then BBBrrrrrrrTTTTTTTT Mother Nature has a fanny fart from a VOLCANO and PPFFFFTTTTTTT The Green Rainbow Unicorn emissions savings " Just went awayyyy for another few hundred years " Ohhh **** Just when they were doing so well :'(
Only 50 or 60 Mother Nature fanny farts happening on earth each year and about 28 currently having a bit of a blow ;D go greenies go :cup:
I'd build one of these for a bit of fun though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kJOXr3HzA&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kJOXr3HzA&feature=youtu.be)
Post by: KeithB on May 04, 2019, 11:58:45 PM
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3 (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3)
Keith
Post by: alnjan on May 05, 2019, 10:35:08 AM
I'd build one of these for a bit of fun though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kJOXr3HzA&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kJOXr3HzA&feature=youtu.be)
While not wheelchair bound my bride has mobility issues and does find herself restricted a lot. For example there is no way she could attempt the hike in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ela3bPtookg. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ela3bPtookg.) What he has done with the ebikes is great. Since first seeing the video ages ago we have been looking at the ebikes and she has had a test ride on one and amazed how easy it was. Just a case of finding the right one.
Post by: gronk on May 05, 2019, 06:12:52 PM
Right now, only 27% of US electricity comes from coal. Natural gas has picked up the slack. But the pollies have made such a stuff up of the gas market that we are unlikely to follow suit. Still a fossil fuel for sure, but a lot less greenhouse gas from natural gas.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3 (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3)
Keith
Yes, but looking at the figures, between coal and gas...60%......nuclear 19% and total renewables only 17%.
We can't achieve those figures because we have no nuclear and we have sold most of OUR gas to the Chinese. So we are left with coal and a small amount of renewables.
Post by: rockrat on May 05, 2019, 06:52:25 PM
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on May 06, 2019, 12:23:53 AM
I remember someone trying to Legislate electric cars "had to make a noise whilst in motion, enabling Pedestrians to be aware of their presence".
Post by: PWE on May 06, 2019, 07:20:26 AM
Post by: Bird on May 06, 2019, 08:48:42 AM
You need to add a Roo whistle but for peoplewould they go fast enough to make noise? certainly wouldnt in town :(
Post by: Bigfish on May 06, 2019, 09:12:03 AM
Electric cars are quiet, it's a wonder we don't have more Pedestrians knocked over by them.
I remember someone trying to Legislate electric cars "had to make a noise whilst in motion, enabling Pedestrians to be aware of their presence".
Many councils have resorted to putting glued on mats with raised surfaces on path intersections . This is because the half wit pedestrians are so transfixed by the photo of a cup of coffee on their mobile phone they forget to stop at the intersection and walk into traffic. Do we really need to save these people who cant even walk down a footpath safely? The mind boggles. Next step will be mini boom gates at all pathway intersections to save the people whose life revolves around a 5 inch screen...
Post by: #jonesy on May 06, 2019, 09:23:19 AM
Many councils have resorted to putting glued on mats with raised surfaces on path intersections . This is because the half wit pedestrians are so transfixed by the photo of a cup of coffee on their mobile phone they forget to stop at the intersection and walk into traffic. Do we really need to save these people who cant even walk down a footpath safely? The mind boggles. Next step will be mini boom gates at all pathway intersections to save the people whose life revolves around a 5 inch screen...Too right dammed blind people with their white canes.
Post by: Fizzie on May 06, 2019, 09:30:04 AM
Next step will be mini boom gates at all pathway intersections to save the people whose life revolves around a 5 inch screen...
They're already trying footpath level traffic lights ::)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-30/sydney-phone-pedestrians-to-get-traffic-lights-in-pavement/7459152 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-30/sydney-phone-pedestrians-to-get-traffic-lights-in-pavement/7459152)
Post by: JusyApples on May 06, 2019, 01:35:59 PM
He’s just been driving the electric Hyundai Kona. It retails for $60k, double the price of the petrol version. The replacement battery is $36000.
Charging takes 9hrs
Problem is when you want to trade in or sell the battery will only have a certain amount of life left making the car virtually worthless. Current battery life is 8 years.
Also cobalt which is a material used in these batteries is more scarce then lithium in which the Japanese are trying to work out a why to recycle this product from old batteries.
Batteries also have a shelf life so how will these be kept for spare parts?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: alnjan on May 06, 2019, 01:44:57 PM
Was just listening to a motoring expert/reviewer on the radio.
He’s just been driving the electric Hyundai Kona. It retails for $60k, double the price of the petrol version. The replacement battery is $36000.
Charging takes 9hrs
Problem is when you want to trade in or sell the battery will only have a certain amount of life left making the car virtually worthless. Current battery life is 8 years.
Also cobalt which is a material used in these batteries is more scarce then lithium in which the Japanese are trying to work out a why to recycle this product from old batteries.
Batteries also have a shelf life so how will these be kept for spare parts?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yep replace on finite resource with numerous finite elements that leave toxic waste. But they don't want to talk about that just that an electric car has no emissions with is good for the Planet.
Post by: austastar on May 06, 2019, 02:49:55 PM
Has anyone got any ideas on how much it costs to recharge your car, is it meant to be cheaper than petrol/ diesel?Hi,
at the recent Agfest show, along with some modern EVs was a 2009 Subaru waggon that had been converted. Amongst the various notices on the vehicle was his running cost of $6/100km. It was not indicated which tarrif this was on, but our main tarrif is 28c/kWh which works out at 21.42 kWh/100km.
Off peak power is cheaper.
Cheers
Post by: doc evil on May 06, 2019, 02:51:01 PM
Yep replace on finite resource with numerous finite elements that leave toxic waste. But they don't want to talk about that just that an electric car has no emissions with is good for the Planet.
Or the more pressing point that they need the coal fired electricity to manufacture and mine the renewable power solutions to create this "green" future..........
Post by: rags on May 06, 2019, 06:20:36 PM
Was just listening to a motoring expert/reviewer on the radio.
He’s just been driving the electric Hyundai Kona. It retails for $60k, double the price of the petrol version. The replacement battery is $36000.
Charging takes 9hrs
Problem is when you want to trade in or sell the battery will only have a certain amount of life left making the car virtually worthless. Current battery life is 8 years.
Also cobalt which is a material used in these batteries is more scarce then lithium in which the Japanese are trying to work out a why to recycle this product from old batteries.
Batteries also have a shelf life so how will these be kept for spare parts?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for relaying that interview, I did hear parts of it but missed the guts of the interview as I was welding and grinding on my trailer using my coal powered welder and grinder.
Heard another interview recently with an electrician who is installing fast chargers into secure and Wilson car parks.He stated that the fast chargers need around 32 amps to work. To get 32 amps you need 3 phase power. Problem is to retro fit into existing units or houses , most premises will not have the capacity in the existing wiring.
Post by: Rumpig on May 06, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
.........He stated that the fast chargers need around 32 amps to work. To get 32 amps you need 3 phase power. Problem is to retro fit into existing units or houses , most premises will not have the capacity in the existing wiring.question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?
Post by: tryagain on May 06, 2019, 07:12:01 PM
question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?
I think most people won't be fast charging when at home, firstly as they are likely to be there for a while, and secondly, fast charging requires a lot of power that most houses aren't equipped to provide. I suspect we will see more smart meters going forward that will at least allow surge pricing and/or hand over greater control to the network and they will flatten out the peaks by switching of charging when demand vs supply is the highest and back on when either demand drops or supply increases.
Post by: gronk on May 06, 2019, 07:19:32 PM
question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?
If there was a lot of elect cars with the present base load capabilities then not a big problem. But in the future, with MAYBE a lot of elect cars and a green push to close base load power stations, that increase in night time demand would certainly be a problem......unless by then someone has come up with a replacement for coal as a base load.....gas would be the obvious but we have sold most of our reserve outputs.
Post by: Rumpig on May 06, 2019, 07:24:18 PM
I think most people won't be fast charging when at home, firstly as they are likely to be there for a while, and secondly, fast charging requires a lot of power that most houses aren't equipped to provide. I suspect we will see more smart meters going forward that will at least allow surge pricing and/or hand over greater control to the network and they will flatten out the peaks by switching of charging when demand vs supply is the highest and back on when either demand drops or supply increases.yeah I just realised what I asked as I was eating dinner just now, there's no need to fast charge over night ...so anyone know how much draw a slow charge does? Is it more or less then say an air con unit in a house for instance
Post by: austastar on May 06, 2019, 07:53:17 PM
There will be various options depending on existing wiring and the potential to retrofit.
I had a 20Amp dedicated powerpoint and several 15Amp powerpoints installed in the garage when we built in 1986. That was for welding, but it will be handy for charging.
I read somewhere that it will be possible in some cases to combine power points on different fused circuits, effectively doubling the Amperage available. Conditions will apply of course.
Cheers
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Post by: tryagain on May 06, 2019, 08:22:25 PM
yeah I just realised what I asked as I was eating dinner just now, there's no need to fast charge over night ...so anyone know how much draw a slow charge does? Is it more or less then say an air con unit in a house for instance
Is a little bit of a piece of string question, similar to an Aircon unit though would probably be a good answer.
Post by: Alan Loy on May 07, 2019, 08:37:08 AM
You can also buy a Hyundai wall-box charger for $2000 fitted, running off your house’s AC power and stowed in your garage, with a maximum charging rate of 7.2kW. This means you can charge the car overnight with the supplied cable in about 9.5 hours from nil to full. Just don’t forget to plug in when you get home from the office.
Can someone convert this to charging from an ordinary 15 amp plug?
Battery Type Lithium-ion Polymer Voltage 356V Battery System Capacity 64.0 kWh
Post by: #jonesy on May 07, 2019, 09:10:03 AM
7200w / 240v = 30 amps
(I think)
Post by: Alan Loy on May 07, 2019, 09:54:13 AM
Range is over 400 km so if your commute was 100km return then about 5 hours to top up
Post by: tryagain on May 07, 2019, 10:53:47 AM
Quote
http://the Kona’s 450km real-world (WLTP-tested) driving range based on consumption of 14.3kWh per 100km
so it would need 28.6kWh of power to recharge from a 200km trip, with a 7.2kW charger it would take approximately 4 hrs to recharge.
The big qualifier here is that as a battery approaches full charge, the charge rate decreases.
(https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/planning/img/EV-battery-rate-of-charge.jpg)
So if it was going from 45-90% it would be about 4hrs, but going from 55-100% would take longer.
Post by: WilSurf on May 07, 2019, 11:43:20 AM
If only the prices were going down quicker.
My wife's car, now a hybrid, does the run around. That would be perfect for an electric car.
You do your school run and shopping and when coming home plug it in to charge from our solar system.
Post by: Bigfish on May 07, 2019, 12:17:04 PM
Post by: Alan Loy on May 07, 2019, 03:49:26 PM
My preferred option is an EV for town and diesel 4Wd for touring. The EVs are still a bit expensive for me however.
Post by: Rumpig on May 07, 2019, 06:07:40 PM
Seems to me if you had one you get into the habit of plugging it in every night. This should solve the charging issues.it's a pretty easy habit to get into, I used to do it daily with my 80ltr fridge in my 4wd after getting home from work before fitting a solar panel on my 4wd...the short drives I was doing to work wouldn't charge the second battery enough, so would plug it into 240V each night to save draining the battery.
Post by: rags on May 07, 2019, 09:22:26 PM
it's a pretty easy habit to get into, I used to do it daily with my 80ltr fridge in my 4wd after getting home from work before fitting a solar panel on my 4wd...the short drives I was doing to work wouldn't charge the second battery enough, so would plug it into 240V each night to save draining the battery.
I do similar, but I always worry that I will forget to unplug before driving away so I ensure the plug is left outside the tailgate.
I can just picture the mother who puts the handbag on the car roof , puts kids into their seats in rush to get to school then yoga, who will forget to unplug the car.
Also how long can these car recharging leads be? As in most houses on 400sqm blocks the owners cannot get their car into the garage because of the junk in the garage. They will be lucky to get near the rechargers.
Post by: prodigyrf on May 08, 2019, 01:12:06 AM
They've already thought of that particularly with public charge stations whereby you carry and supply your own lead (Tesla have the lead on the 'bowser'). The car won't drive while the charge cable is connected and the screen will be staring you in the face telling you why it won't. When you think about it public chargers won't want their own leads being knocked around and requiring periodic replacement so they'll just give you the socket/s for your particular lead and plug although settling on the one standard is the issue-
https://insideevs.com/news/318042/dc-quick-charging-battle-just-beginning-chademo-vs-sae-combo-vs-tesla-supercharger/ (https://insideevs.com/news/318042/dc-quick-charging-battle-just-beginning-chademo-vs-sae-combo-vs-tesla-supercharger/)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2019/05/03/wireless-electric-vehicle-charging-puts-an-end-to-range-arms-race/#505d0aa650b9 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2019/05/03/wireless-electric-vehicle-charging-puts-an-end-to-range-arms-race/#505d0aa650b9)
And then there's running out of 'gas'-
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/rac-develops-the-uks-first-lightweight-ev-charger/ (https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/rac-develops-the-uks-first-lightweight-ev-charger/)
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on May 08, 2019, 02:18:36 AM
question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?Convince them to hook it all up to the Solar input, it'd be the clean green way to do it, .......right?
Post by: prodigyrf on May 08, 2019, 09:37:30 AM
Post by: Symon on May 08, 2019, 12:55:29 PM
yeah I just realised what I asked as I was eating dinner just now, there's no need to fast charge over night ...so anyone know how much draw a slow charge does? Is it more or less then say an air con unit in a house for instance
A middle of the road Tesla Model 3 with a 62kWh battery pack will take 30 hours from 0% to full charge from a 10A GPO, or 20 hours from a 15A GPO. You could put in a 32A single phase outlet that will get it down to 10 hours but you may run into issues if you have an older house, as the consumers mains for old houses is often only 6 sq mm.
If you have three phase available you can get it down to 5 or 6 hours.
I think most people will need local battery storage and a fast DC charger if they are routinely running their BEV down to a low state of charge. The general idea is to charge up your home battery during the day via solar and then use that to charge the BEV overnight. However if you do the maths on that you would need around a 20kW array so you would want a damn big roof.
question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?
A good question and it is difficult to answer as there are a lot of variables at play. My initial response would be 'in general' the grid is not ready for BEV's, and it would be a very costly exercise to modify/upgrade it to fully manage the future demand. However there is a number of mitigation strategies that can be used to even out the peaks and troughs, some include using the BEV plugged in to a home charger as a source of supply to prop up the grid during periods of high load. This as well as other methods can delay the need for immediate upgrades to the network, but there will come a point where some money will need to be spent on upgrades.
I don't buy into the idea that the future is decentralised power generation and that the grid will no longer be required - although some in the renewables industry are pointing in that direction.
Post by: Symon on May 08, 2019, 01:16:11 PM
All these charge rates are based on Lithium batteries. Within the next decade newer batteries that will last twice as long, charge a lot quicker and cost a lot less will be available. Technology will just keep racing along.
Charging efficiencies are already above 90%, so the battery technology is essentially irrelevant in regards to charge times. Energy is energy no matter what stores it.
A 40A charger will still only deliver 40A, no matter what it is charging.
The energy density of the batteries will improve over time though, but this only improves the range, not charging times.
I read somewhere that it will be possible in some cases to combine power points on different fused circuits, effectively doubling the Amperage available. Conditions will apply of course.
Only really feasible if it is only a single phase house. Fraught with danger if you try to do that on a three phase house...
Post by: GeoffA on May 08, 2019, 08:43:32 PM
.......However if you do the maths on that you would need around a 20kW array so you would want a damn big roof.
Got 28+kW on our roof.... ;D
Can't see me in a Telsa any time soon, though.
I don't buy into the idea that the future is decentralised power generation and that the grid will no longer be required - although some in the renewables industry are pointing in that direction.
Agree with that Symon. There are plenty of situations where renewables just don't work.
:cheers:
Post by: prodigyrf on May 09, 2019, 02:09:59 AM
All these charge rates are based on Lithium batteries. Within the next decade newer batteries that will last twice as long, charge a lot quicker and cost a lot less will be available. Technology will just keep racing along.
Lithium battery tech is the best we have for mobile battery use and it's now old mature technology albeit Tesla are the best in the world at it at present. There's a common misconception that battery tech is like the digital information revolution when energy is completely different being bound by the iron laws of physics and economics as this physicist ably argues with some sobering big picture stuff-
https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-near-impossible (https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-near-impossible)
A thousand years of Tesla's Gigafactory output just to store 2 days worth of current US electricity demand you say? Then on top of that sort of output the magical thinkers reckon all our vehicles will have them too (4410 of Tesla's 2170 lego lithium bricks in a Tesla M3 battery pack) and at the same time they'll all need replacing every 10-15 years or so? That just aint gunna happen in anyone's lifetime as any serious attempt to do so will drive lithium battery raw materials prices into orbit. Portable electronics move over your power source is required elsewhere.
With the solar/wind/battery revolution whole societies have taken complete leave of their senses and any rational analysis and the whole fantasy is now running on very expensive emotion. That simply won't cut it up against physics and concomitant economics.
Post by: gronk on May 09, 2019, 06:43:21 AM
Post by: Pete79 on May 09, 2019, 06:56:00 AM
Concomitant ?? Geez, I had to look that up. ;DYou should also look up the Manhattan Institute... ;)
Quote
In July of 2016, nineteen U.S. Senators delivered a series of speeches denouncing climate change denial from 32 organizations with links to fossil-fuel interests, including the Manhattan Institute for Public Policy.
"shine a little light on the web of climate denial and spotlight the bad actors in the web, who are polluting our American discourse with phony climate denial.
This web of denial, formed over decades, has been built and provisioned by the deep-pocketed Koch brothers, by ExxonMobil, by Peabody coal, and by other fossil fuel interests. It is a grim shadow over our democracy in that it includes an electioneering effort that spends hundreds of millions of dollars in a single election cycle and threatens any Republican who steps up to address the global threat of climate change. . . .
It is long past time we shed some light on the perpetrators of this web of denial and expose their filthy grip on our political process. It is a disgrace, and our grandchildren will look back at this as a dirty time in America’s political history because of their work.”
Post by: tryagain on May 09, 2019, 10:41:48 AM
A thousand years of Tesla's Gigafactory output just to store 2 days worth of current US electricity demand you say? Then on top of that sort of output the magical thinkers reckon all our vehicles will have them too (4410 of Tesla's 2170 lego lithium bricks in a Tesla M3 battery pack) and at the same time they'll all need replacing every 10-15 years or so? That just aint gunna happen in anyone's lifetime.
It's not really that hard to fathom, the Giga factory is only about 30% complete, assuming that when it's finished it will output 3 times as many lithium cells, build a 100 factories (that's like 2 factories per US state) and you would probably have enough supply to do 3 days worth of storage replaced ever ten years as well as vehicles.
any serious attempt to do so will drive lithium battery raw materials prices into orbit.
Based on what? lithium battery demand has increased dramatically and prices have actually gone down, there are plenty of new mines coming online as well and some are predicting an oversupply in the near future.
(https://data.bloomberglp.com/professional/sites/24/Capture2.jpg)
Source: https://about.bnef.com/blog/behind-scenes-take-lithium-ion-battery-prices/
But say prices for the raw materials did go up, from the above source.
Quote
A 50% increase in lithium prices would for instance increase the battery pack price of a nickel-manganese-cobalt (NMC) 811 battery by less than 4%. Similarly, a doubling of cobalt prices would result in a 3% increase in the overall pack price.
Post by: edz on May 09, 2019, 11:23:36 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9e64AFieCM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9e64AFieCM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY)
Post by: WilSurf on May 09, 2019, 11:24:27 AM
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/tesla-slashes-prices-renames-entire-range (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/tesla-slashes-prices-renames-entire-range)
Post by: Symon on May 09, 2019, 12:02:09 PM
It's not really that hard to fathom, the Giga factory is only about 30% complete, assuming that when it's finished it will output 3 times as many lithium cells, build a 100 factories (that's like 2 factories per US state) and you would probably have enough supply to do 3 days worth of storage replaced ever ten years as well as vehicles.
Based on what? lithium battery demand has increased dramatically and prices have actually gone down, there are plenty of new mines coming online as well and some are predicting an oversupply in the near future.
But say prices for the raw materials did go up, from the above source.
It's worth keeping in mind that even though Panasonic / Tesla dominates the western media on battery technology, they are currently only #3 on the world battery production rankings. By 2025 LG Chem will have double the production capacity of Panasonic, and CATL will have almost triple. BYD will overtake Panasonic by 2022, and Wanxiang will overtake them sometime before 2025.
The Tesla gigafactories won't make as much of an impact as the media is portraying - the Chinese and Koreans are already producing and ramping up at an incredible rate.
As Lithium designs improve they are using less and less cobalt, so I would think that will become less of an issue in the future.
Got 28+kW on our roof.... ;D
Show off :cup:
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 01:07:43 PM
The claim:
In response to Labor's plan to accelerate Australia's uptake of electric vehicles by introducing a target of 50 per cent of new car sales being electric by 2030, Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced that "Bill Shorten wants to end the weekend".
Speaking to reporters in Melbourne, he said: "[An electric vehicle] won't tow your trailer. It's not going to tow your boat. It's not going to get you out to your favourite camping spot with your family."
The truth:
The experts noted that standard electric vehicles now on the market could travel, on average, 300 to 400 kilometres on a single charge. Some models — the Tesla Model X, for example — could reach up to 500 kilometres, with towing capacity.
This means that the most efficient of these models could make a trip from Melbourne to the Grampians on a single charge, depending on driving style and conditions. The same holds for driving from Sydney to Narooma.
.....
Many of the world's leading car manufacturers — General Motors, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota and Hyundai — have all started manufacturing fully-electric models.
In the US, Ford recently announced it would build a fully electric version of its popular F-Series pick-up truck.
Toyota has committed to hybrid, electric and hydrogen fuel-cell variants for its entire range to be made available to markets in China, Japan, the US, Europe and India by 2025, and which includes its HiLux and LandCruiser SUV.
.....
Can electric vehicles tow?
https://youtu.be/rvk4fNxF0l4 (https://youtu.be/rvk4fNxF0l4)
Experts told Fact Check it was incorrect to suggest that electric vehicles generally did not have towing capacity.
Most electric vehicles have plenty of pulling power, reflected in their high output of torque.
A number of electric vehicles currently on the Australian market (and coming in 2019) generate power not too dissimilar to a standard petrol-fuelled vehicle. These models produce between 300 and 600Nm of torque.
The Tesla Model X P100D produces 967Nm of torque, with a 2.25 ton towing capacity.
....
The verdict on this latest scare campaign:
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/3d2b20b0663d93b3f715fab3f1b0a363.jpg)
The full story:
https://abc.net.au/news/2019-05-10/federal-election-fact-check-electric-vehicle-tow-boat/11078464?pfmredir=sm (https://abc.net.au/news/2019-05-10/federal-election-fact-check-electric-vehicle-tow-boat/11078464?pfmredir=sm)
Post by: edz on May 10, 2019, 01:38:40 PM
The 2c question is : Now show us the EV 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t, up hill and down dale at the speed limit for 500 Km, pull up at a Recharging point to charge up in 10 minutes to full and do it all again, dont forget a couple of auxilary portable battery packs to extend the range by a couple of hundred Km when out in the bush .. Till then people will keep what theyve got .
Post by: Pottsy on May 10, 2019, 01:52:13 PM
Even a human can pull a plane on nice flat concrete ..X 2
The 2c question is : Now show us the EV 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t, up hill and down dale at the speed limit for 500 Km, pull up at a Recharging point to charge up in 10 minutes to full and do it all again, dont forget a couple of auxilary portable battery packs to extend the range by a couple of hundred Km when out in the bush .. Till then people will keep what theyve got .
Post by: Kangaron on May 10, 2019, 02:24:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw)
Post by: edz on May 10, 2019, 02:41:19 PM
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 02:56:34 PM
Even a human can pull a plane on nice flat concrete ..
The 2c question is : Now show us the EV 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t, up hill and down dale at the speed limit for 500 Km, pull up at a Recharging point to charge up in 10 minutes to full and do it all again, dont forget a couple of auxilary portable battery packs to extend the range by a couple of hundred Km when out in the bush .. Till then people will keep what theyve got .
Was just putting facts to the lies.
I wont be purchasing one any time soon, but the facts are EVs can absolutely tow trailers, boats, ect.
From a 2017 test drive review;
Quote
Despite having a 1900kg caravan in tow, it’s not a problem on our mainly bitumen course with the Tesla’s regenerative braking, which can be switched off, washing off speed quickly once I take my foot off the accelerator.
As for acceleration, it’s real rush and unlike anything I’ve experienced in a tow vehicle, including a Toyota LandCruiser and RAM 2500.
With an estimated 386kW and at least 600Nm available from the get-go, the Model X gets up to speed very sharply and swiftly, not to mention quietly with just a whir from the dual motors and some tyre noise to disturb the ambience.
I call it quits at 90km/h but it feels like it could easily double that, surging almost effortlessly on only light throttle. It’s an addictive rush that most fossil fuel-powered tow tugs can only dream of delivering.
Driving solo, the Model X 75D is good for a 0-100km/h time of 6.2sec and a 210km/h top speed, so I can only imagine what it would be like towing with the top-spec 100kWh battery version that delivers 447kW and 1074Nm.
The Model X also feels very stable when towing, helped by a low centre of gravity, slick aerodynamic shape and close to 2500kg kerb weight. Munro’s Model X is fitted with the standard 20-inch wheels that allow towing up to the maximum 2280kg with the optional 22-inch wheels lowering that to 1588kg.
The height-adjustable air suspension offers some initial firmness but rides comfortably over some dirt sections, with just some minor wobble as the suspension makes minor adjustments while cruising at highway speeds.
Other highlights are a good turning circle and nice, lighting steering (in Comfort mode), while Trailer Sway Control (when operating) is a handy back-up feature.
Fitted with the 75kWh battery Tesla says the Model X will travel up 417km on a full charge, and the common consensus is that this would reduce by at least 30 per cent, or down to 300km when towing a two-tonne trailer.
Tesla ‘supercharger’ stations located between Melbourne and Brisbane on Australia’s east coast, which can deliver 270km into the battery in 20 minutes.
Not quite the 500km range and 10 minute refill that you're demanding, but there's still nearly 11 years to go before these evil EVs kill your weekends...
As noted in the fact check artical all major manufactures are working on EV (or hybrid) versions of thier current models, including F-Trucks and the Hilux.
It's pretty clear the PM's scare tactics are all BS and as I said in my first post in this thread, it doesn't matter what Bill or Scotty want, we'll get what we're given.
As much as it pains big Scotty, I'm not scared of the posibilty that one day I might own an EV with torque figures s***ting all over todays offerings.... :cheers:
Post by: tryagain on May 10, 2019, 03:01:43 PM
The Tesla Model X P100D produces 967Nm of torque, with a 2.25 ton towing capacity.
They are technically correct, they conviently don't mention it $200k price tag though.
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 03:05:05 PM
They are technically correct, they conviently don't mention it $200k price tag though.
Actually I happened to look that one up.
That model Tesla comes in at almost the exact same retail price as a 200 Series Cruiser Sahara...
And based on the videos I've seen in the 'I got bogged at inskip' thread I'm thinking the Tesla probably goes just as well on sand as a 200 series..... :P :-*
Edit;
Sorry, the Tesla in the road test artical costs the same as a 200 series, not the X P110D that you have quoted.
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 03:08:07 PM
The 2c question is : Now show us the EV 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t, up hill and down dale at the speed limit for 500 Km
I forgot to ask,
Can you give an example of any current 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t, up hill and down dale at the speed limit and get 500 Km from a single tank?
Before you start throwing out names like Cruisers and Patrols, the rules are "TOWING 2T, UP HILL, AT THE SPEED LIMIT" remember.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Steffo1 on May 10, 2019, 04:34:01 PM
Post by: JusyApples on May 10, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
I forgot to ask,RAM 1500
Can you give an example of any current 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t, up hill and down dale at the speed limit and get 500 Km from a single tank?
Before you start throwing out names like Cruisers and Patrols, the rules are "TOWING 2T, UP HILL, AT THE SPEED LIMIT" remember.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 05:26:12 PM
RAM 1500
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Winner!!! :cup: :cheers:
Old mate in a RAM towing a big arsed New Age asolutely left me for dead in my Triton with my 500kg trailer going up a decent incline on the highway at Christmas time. Very impressive...
I'm guessing it would take close to the 10 minute limit to fill those 121L tanks though... ;)
Post by: JusyApples on May 10, 2019, 05:35:10 PM
Winner!!! :cup: :cheers:My old man has one. Said he didn’t notice his caravan on the back. My uncle in his ranger couldn’t keep up going through the blue mountains at Easter
Old mate in a RAM towing a big arsed New Age asolutely left me for dead in my Triton with my 500kg trailer going up a decent incline on the highway at Christmas time. Very impressive...
I'm guessing it would take close to the 10 minute limit to fill those 121L tanks though... ;)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: GeoffA on May 10, 2019, 07:04:52 PM
RAM 1500
Check the axle capacities on the 1500 before plonking money down.....
Post by: speewa158 on May 10, 2019, 07:24:31 PM
A S I F
trot out a 5.5KVA Gen set to power it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
Post by: austastar on May 10, 2019, 08:40:30 PM
I'm guessing it would take close to the 10 minute limit to fill those 121L tanks though... ;)
Then switch it off 'cause it's gaining on you.
Cheers
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Post by: Rumpig on May 10, 2019, 08:49:53 PM
Winner!!! :cup: :cheers:good chance a remapped 79 series would likely leave you behind also...surprisingly a couple of mates 200 series's struggle to stay with mine and another friends remapped 79's going up big climbs when towing similar sized vans. Going up Cunningham's Gap last week towing 2 tonne of caravan, the only thing to slow me up was the sharpness of one corner near the top.....towing our Kimberley Kamper I just keep going at the speed limit around that corner, but with the caravan on the back I thought best to ease off on that corner for safety reasons.
Old mate in a RAM towing a big arsed New Age asolutely left me for dead in my Triton with my 500kg trailer going up a decent incline on the highway at Christmas time. Very impressive...
I'm guessing it would take close to the 10 minute limit to fill those 121L tanks though... ;)
Post by: Inland_Sailor on May 10, 2019, 09:57:33 PM
Post by: edz on May 11, 2019, 12:48:56 AM
Just wish these innovators Spruking all these flash numbers for this n that Electro buggy would actualy show real world test results .. Here it is loaded up with 400kg / 7 adults, fifteen kids and six dogs towing a 3500 kg trailer just finishing a 640 km road trip up through the great diving range on one battery charge .. What a great electric buggy this is ..
But instead they say it can carry 400 kg payload .. But dont tell you the battery runs flat in 400 km .. yes it can tow 3500 kg but only gets 200 km to a charge etc etc ..
Yes it can get 640 km to a charge if its unloaded / driven by grandma and run on flat ground .. But then your trip is going to be put on hold for 10 hours till it recharges, tuff bikkies if theres nothing at the other end to recharge from to get you back .
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on May 11, 2019, 06:02:35 AM
Where do you fill it back up, so you can get home again.
Post by: Pete79 on May 11, 2019, 06:12:43 AM
I would just add one comment.
When you’re currently out exploring this big wide land do you notice how many little bush towns that have no servos?
Have you noticed that every single one of those towns have the lights on at night?
Just saying..... ;)
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on May 11, 2019, 07:14:25 AM
Post by: gronk on May 11, 2019, 08:03:18 AM
All fair points there.
I would just add one comment.
When you’re currently out exploring this big wide land do you notice how many little bush towns that have no servos?
Have you noticed that every single one of those towns have the lights on at night?
Just saying..... ;)
Ha ha, then 5 groups of green city dwellers turn up at 8pm (just as the footies starting ) and plug their cars in......overloads the little towns transformer and the city folk wonder why the towns people want to lynch them !! ;D ;D
Post by: Pete79 on May 11, 2019, 08:14:29 AM
Ha ha, then 5 groups of green city dwellers turn up at 8pm (just as the footies starting ) and plug their cars in......overloads the little towns transformer and the city folk wonder why the towns people want to lynch them !! ;D ;DI think you meant to say “the convoy of 12 grey nomads has slowly made their way up from Mexico, traveling 15km/h under the speed limit so they can save every volt along the way. They’ve pulled up at the free camp on the side of the highway just on the edge of the small town and shoved their 50 double adapters into the one power point to recharge their tow rigs and watch the telly and run the aircon and put a load of washing on and boil the kettle.”
They’re the ones that tripped the little towns transformer and the local caravan park is now complaining that said grey nomads haven’t stopped and plugged into the caravan park’s power point for the meager fee of $200 per night.... ;) ;D
Post by: Rumpig on May 11, 2019, 08:34:07 AM
I think you meant to say “the convoy of 12 grey nomads has slowly made their way up from Mexico, traveling 15km/h under the speed limit so they can save every volt along the way. They’ve pulled up at the free camp on the side of the highway just on the edge of the small town and shoved their 50 double adapters into the one power point to recharge their tow rigs and watch the telly and run the aircon and put a load of washing on and boil the kettle.”going by last weekends encounter....said grey nomad will likely just bust out there cheap noisey genny at the free camp and run it late into the night so they can sit inside watching television, then act surprised when I knock on thier door at 9.40 p.m telling them to turn the piece of crap off.
They’re the ones that tripped the little towns transformer and the local caravan park is now complaining that said grey nomads haven’t stopped and plugged into the caravan park’s power point for the meager fee of $200 per night.... ;) ;D
Post by: Fizzie on May 11, 2019, 02:52:13 PM
Just wish these innovators Spruking all these flash numbers for this n that Electro buggy would actualy show real world test results
But that's the same with petrol / diesel fourbie reviews - the article says it's a top tow vehicle, but they hardly ever actually say what the tow capacity, payload etc is >:(
Post by: Bird on May 11, 2019, 04:17:00 PM
.. and as someone else said they are tiny. designed mainly for the soy mocca latte with smashed on soy focaccia crowd.
Post by: tryagain on May 11, 2019, 04:52:19 PM
I dont see anything "exciting' about electric cars.... nearly every single one currently out there, and nearly every 'this is what the future brings' at expos look like Shit.I wouldn't say I get excited about them (or any car for that matter) but do find them interesting, especially with performance like this https://youtu.be/6eGhjhx8O9M
.. and as someone else said they are tiny. designed mainly for the soy mocca latte with smashed on soy focaccia crowd.
Post by: gronk on May 11, 2019, 07:12:03 PM
I wouldn't say I get excited about them (or any car for that matter) but do find them interesting, especially with performance like this https://youtu.be/6eGhjhx8O9M
Certainly nice power, but until I can use one just like a normal motor car, I'll pass. Mightn't be too long, but they'll have automatic charging instead of having to plug the things in, and a faster way of charging ( not sure when that'll be ? )
Not sure I'll live long enough, but the next big thing in motor cars won't be battery power....this battery stuff is just a feel good short term solution. Hydrogen , fuel cells, nuclear ??? Who knows ??
Post by: Pottsy on May 11, 2019, 07:38:31 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on May 12, 2019, 02:29:01 AM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/the-reason-why-electric-cars-will-always-be-expensive/news-story/8f8d81ac872578ad665a264c91b17505 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/the-reason-why-electric-cars-will-always-be-expensive/news-story/8f8d81ac872578ad665a264c91b17505)
With the median price of cars on Carsales around $25k and once you hit $50k plus you're only left with around 18% of cars for sale which puts the ZOE, Ioniq, Kona and BMW i3 EVs costing $50-$80k in a very small elite marketplace. Australians who mostly live in stop/start urban environments wont even cough up the extra for hybrids that can pay back in 3 years as Honda know-
'Last October, Honda's local boss ruled out the introduction of the CR-V Hybrid in Australia, largely due to the relatively tiny local hybrid market and lack of government incentives.
"We have no current or immediate plans to bring in the CR-V Hybrid. We’re quite happy with the current line-up and the 1.5 turbo," he said.
"Our view is that the current hybrid market in Australia is less than one per cent of the total vehicle market. Really, without substantial incentives (from the government) much like there are in many other markets around the world, our interest is unlikely to grow significantly in the short term."
"Hybrid is certainly still a part of Honda’s global strategy. But unlike, say, Japan, where there are big customer incentives from the government, we think demand is going to limited in the foreseeable future," he added.'
https://www.caradvice.com.au/703989/2019-honda-cr-v-revealed-europe/ (https://www.caradvice.com.au/703989/2019-honda-cr-v-revealed-europe/)
Full EVs are the cart before the horsepower if they're still running on coal and gas (and in SA diesel gennys) rather than sun and wind but Gigafactories of batteries are needed to ever make that happen and save the dreaded plant food. If full EVs can't do that until the power grid is shifted completely to renewables then why would you want to pay through the nose for EVs? The EV revolution won't happen because mainstream car buyers can't afford them and any annual fuel savings would be more than offset by interest savings as most buy new cars on tick.
Here you go EV fans get in before they rush out the door and pretend you're saving the planet til they blow up the rest of the coal stations-
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Hyundai-Kona-2019/SHRM-AD-6013466/?Cr=2 (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Hyundai-Kona-2019/SHRM-AD-6013466/?Cr=2)
Post by: rockrat on May 12, 2019, 07:13:37 PM
https://apple.news/ArB_zmpfuQk67D3BeA9NITA
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Post by: edz on May 12, 2019, 10:51:28 PM
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 13, 2019, 06:25:49 AM
Germany and Sweden are trialling different “electric road” concepts that allow trucks, buses and maybe one day, cars, to recharge on the go.
https://apple.news/ArB_zmpfuQk67D3BeA9NITA
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Does mean pedestrians would get zapped crossing the road?
Post by: Steffo1 on May 13, 2019, 08:20:18 AM
Germany and Sweden are trialling different “electric road” concepts that allow trucks, buses and maybe one day, cars, to recharge on the go.
https://apple.news/ArB_zmpfuQk67D3BeA9NITA
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Post by: edz on May 13, 2019, 08:20:30 AM
Post by: #jonesy on May 14, 2019, 08:45:25 PM
Post by: edz on May 15, 2019, 09:43:29 PM
Check out the range drop when not even towing a loaded small camper [ 100% charge to 30% in 190 km ] and not at speed ....
Reckon the EV market will have to do the equivelent of going from the wright flyer first flight to the moon in 10 years to be even close to being a viable proposition by 2030 .. Big money IE trillions needs to be injected for that to happen ..Either that or the tech is there and been buried waiting to be wheeled out of the vaults by some .
Post by: PWE on May 15, 2019, 10:08:57 PM
When an all electric win a Dakar type race, it will take it a further 5 years before it can start being considered to be a real SUV.
An electric car should be seen as a city car.
My model 3 will be a city car, I am not consider driving past the Sunny Coast.
My Cruiser is there to tour remotely or even just blacktop touring.
I struggle to see the purpose of the Model X. The technology is not there, so what is its use. Similar to the Lexus hydrid SUV.
Post by: Pete79 on May 15, 2019, 10:44:15 PM
Apparently the biggest issue was parking close enough to the charge points with the van in tow.
This quote sounds like most people’s travel plans, especially those lovely grey nomads out there wandering around enjoying our awesome Queensland weather while their bricks and mortar down south is being continuously rained on, snap frozen and blown away for the next 7 or 8 months.... ;)
Quote
To find enough charging spots, they would leave their campground every morning before breakfast and drive for a couple of hours, then get breakfast while charging; drive a couple more hours for lunch and charge again, and aim to hit a campground by 4 pm to allow enough time to charge overnight. They stayed in campgrounds every night they weren’t staying with friends or family, and called ahead for reservations in the afternoon before arrival, once they had a sense of how far they could make it.
At campgrounds, they would pay extra for a camp site with 50-amp hookups to plug in the Tesla. Those sites, meant for RVs and trailers a lot bigger than the R-Pod, also had 30-amp plugs that they could use to power the trailer.
I guess the only real difference is what grey nomads are paying to fill those diesel tanks in their current tow rigs compared to what this yank couple paid for the whole 12,400km trip.
Quote
Fred calculated Supercharger charges at $289 for the trip, or $17 a day, not counting the extra money they paid for campsites with 50-amp hookups.
You go and tell those Mexicans they can do their whole winter tour for under $300 in fuel and see how fast “man gets to the moon”... ;)
Post by: tryagain on May 15, 2019, 11:24:53 PM
An electric car should be seen as a city car.
My model 3 will be a city car, I am not consider driving past the Sunny Coast.
My Cruiser is there to tour remotely or even just blacktop touring.
I think this is the bit that most people don't think about, I don't see the internal combustion engine going anywhere anytime soon, but could see the typical two-car family in the near future have one of each, the day to day run around would be electric whilst if they need to go on a longer trip they would take the petrol/diesel, if you don't need the big range out of an electric they could offer smaller batteries which would mean cheaper EV's as well and would still be fine for the day to day. I think around town the EV's will prove to be what many peoples tow/tourer rigs aren't, that being quiet, cheap to run, refined, easily manoeuvrable and zippy.
Post by: AdrianLR on May 16, 2019, 12:20:25 AM
When an all electric win a Dakar type race,
Here you go:
https://www.acciona.com/about-acciona/sponsorships/acciona-ecopowered-dakar/ (https://www.acciona.com/about-acciona/sponsorships/acciona-ecopowered-dakar/)
No, it didn't win but completed 100% of stages. Same can't be said of most of the 18,000 ICE vehicles that have competed over the years.
Also raced and finished in the Finke rally but got timed out on the one stage under a technicality because that rules couldn't accomodate an EV (even got told initially that it couldn't be entered because the rules only talked about vehicles with ICE). This is the local video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrkSMZIA3Sg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrkSMZIA3Sg)
Post by: Rumpig on May 16, 2019, 06:31:39 AM
Quote
“We have to bring a car to market … that fulfils the requirements of those peoples’ livelihoods and/or recreation, whether it be construction, farming, mining, recreation, private, whatever it may be,” Sean Hanley, Toyota Australia vice president of sales and marketing, said. “We’ve got to bring powertrains to market that reduce our CO2 footprint but still serve to be able to enable people the freedom of mobility.”the option will be there if you want it, but won’t be the sole option
One of those drivetrains will be a petrol-electric hybrid system, in line with Toyota’s promise to ensure an electrified version of every model by 2025.
Post by: Bigfish on May 16, 2019, 07:29:00 AM
Some excellent reading here from someone who has actually driven the various types of electric vehicles. He makes some good points.
Post by: Fizzie on May 16, 2019, 08:12:11 AM
Tesla has 90 kg ball weight limit
Notice that it quotes specs as "Braked tow: 2270kg" but with only that 90kg ball weight ???
Think it'd be pretty hard to find that combo out there ???
And yet at the same time a couple in the USA just finished a 12,400 km trip with their Tesla C 400D towing a 1.7t caravan without too much drama.
I guess the only real difference is what grey nomads are paying to fill those diesel tanks in their current tow rigs compared to what this yank couple paid for the whole 12,400km trip.
You go and tell those Mexicans they can do their whole winter tour for under $300 in fuel and see how fast “man gets to the moon”... ;)
"called ahead for reservations in the afternoon before arrival, once they had a sense of how far they could make it."
Nice to have so many options of where to stay, that you can decide on your destination mid-arvo >:D
"At campgrounds, they would pay extra for a camp site with 50-amp hookups to plug in the Tesla. Those sites, meant for RVs and trailers a lot bigger than the R-Pod, also had 30-amp plugs that they could use to power the trailer."
& too bad about anybody with a motor-home that may also want to stop for the night >:D
"Fred calculated Supercharger charges at $289 for the trip, or $17 a day, not counting the extra money they paid for campsites with 50-amp hookups"
Sorry, but if you're paying $100 / night for a "big" campsite, rather than $30 for a normal slot, I really think that should be accounted for ??? Sure, it may be <$300 for "fuel", but also $2000 for accomodation
Post by: Pete79 on May 16, 2019, 09:17:47 AM
Do you know the price difference between the various powered van sites in the USA?
Here locally we’re talking what $10 difference per night between a powered and unpowered site?
When you’re stopping and using the van park facilities anyway, the very minor difference that ‘might’ be charged for having the bigger power supply wouldn’t really factor into your running costs.
And you’re saying you can’t book any accommodation while you’re on the road???
That’s how we book pretty much all of our accommodation on big trips.
We set off in the morning aiming to get a set distance for the day, then make the call in the afternoon how far we want to push it, do we just do a quick camp on the side of the road or look for a nearby national park or some sort of attraction (a dam/weir/beach/creek) to stop at or just go as far as we can into the night and get the cheapest motor inn with a room available.
Vehicle manufacturers are very clearly saying they are going to produce these EVs as we move forward.
To think that facilitates won’t be built to accommodate these vehicles as they gain popularity is pretty naive.
Like I said before, I don’t plan on buying one anytime soon, but the fact is they are being built now and will become part of the mix in the car fleet of this nation.
Just as supercharged V8s or 4wds on 35” tyres and 5” lifts are not for all city people, electric cars may not be for all country people. But to say there is absolutely no place for them in our Australian car market is wrong in my opinion.
Post by: Pete79 on May 16, 2019, 10:12:29 AM
Reckon the EV market will have to do the equivelent of going from the wright flyer first flight to the moon in 10 years to be even close to being a viable proposition by 2030 .. Big money IE trillions needs to be injected for that to happen ..
So you're saying it's going to cost trillions of dollars to connect a bunch 30amp or 50amp power points to an existing electricty network?
Really???
And how much do you think it really cost to set up the current network of service stations that are scattered around the country now?
And how much do you think it really costs to run fleets of semi trailers to cart millions of litres of fuel from the ports on the coast (where all of our imported fuel lands from the overseas manufacturers) and carried 1,000s of km out to the vast reaches of our outback?
Post by: Bigfish on May 16, 2019, 10:48:30 AM
So you're saying it's going to cost trillions of dollars to connect a bunch 30amp or 50amp power points to an existing electricty network?
Really???
And how much do you think it really cost to set up the current network of service stations that are scattered around the country now?
And how much do you think it really costs to run fleets of semi trailers to cart millions of litres of fuel from the ports on the coast (where all of our imported fuel lands from the overseas manufacturers) and carried 1,000s of km out to the vast reaches of our outback?
Half of these service stations wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the fact they have to sell everything from firewood to fishing tackle just to keep their doors open.
Post by: edz on May 16, 2019, 11:39:50 AM
Mobs calling for full EV for everything.. just isnt about cars .. These mobs havent even got heavy transport / farming / then there is long haul air transport / shipping EV stuff yet that works .. Theres the trillions of $$
Dont get me wrong, EV is coming for sure and Im fine with that, Bring it on. So long as its affordable for all and not just the wealthy, does the jobs thats needed and preferably is as easy to use as what we currently have .
I do Wonder what $$ these renewable energy mobs are going to charge per Kw of power for the putting in / maintaining all these new recharge stations in out of the way areas all over Australia, given that power is way cheaper than fuel ?? ...
Yep it costs Multiple billions for fuel / transport etc, Its saving grace is that those set ups are already in place / to a large part already paid for themselves many times over the last 160 years and can provide fuel at X $ per liter ..
Post by: Bird on May 16, 2019, 01:00:43 PM
Post by: krisandkev on May 16, 2019, 05:46:20 PM
Post by: rockrat on May 16, 2019, 05:47:59 PM
Think about with the new gov (it appears everyone wants them) and their target for elect cars imagine what the value of our petrol/diesel car will be? I don't think we will get stuff all on a trade in. >:D KevinThen again they could be a rarity that people pay more for.
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Post by: gronk on May 16, 2019, 05:48:31 PM
I do Wonder what $$ these renewable energy mobs are going to charge per Kw of power for the putting in / maintaining all these new recharge stations in out of the way areas all over Australia, given that power is way cheaper than fuel ?? ...
.
I'm sure the recharge stations will charge a LOT more than the cost of doing it at home. Although, with all this renewable energy and phasing out of "dirty" power stations, the cost of electricity for the average consumer will probably make us one of the dearest places on earth..
Everything comes at a cost.....is everyone prepared to pay for it ??
Post by: Bird on May 16, 2019, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: rockrat
Then again they could be a rarity that people pay more for.
Not if due to not selling any fuel the price rises to $4-5/ltr.
SIMM's metal wouldnt take them.
Then insurance would be more than your house etc.
Post by: #jonesy on May 17, 2019, 09:45:23 AM
I see some neighbourhoods are already ahead of the trend
Post by: PWE on May 19, 2019, 08:13:15 AM
I will know from June how they perform in real life
https://www.tembo4x4-elv.com/Technical-Specs
Post by: Pete79 on May 19, 2019, 08:24:38 AM
Not fully electric, but will be interesting how they handle
I will know from June how they perform in real life
https://www.tembo4x4-elv.com/Technical-Specs
I’m pretty sure they’re the same/similar to the ones BHP are already running underground at their Olympic Dam site.
They’re also testing full electric heavy vehicles now with hopes to eliminate all of the toxic diesel fumes in their underground operations. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-29/bhp-biggest-miners-are-starting-to-drive-evs-deep-underground (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-29/bhp-biggest-miners-are-starting-to-drive-evs-deep-underground)
There’s plenty of electric heavy vehicles getting around already.
Right now all of the buses at Brisbane airport today are full electric. That’s the whole fleet that is running around between both airports and the big car parking areas. https://newsroom.bne.com.au/new-electric-buses-at-brisbane-airport-a-winwin-for-travellers-and-the-environment/ (https://newsroom.bne.com.au/new-electric-buses-at-brisbane-airport-a-winwin-for-travellers-and-the-environment/)
And Casey council in Victoria has joined the many, many councils in NZ that are running fleets of full electric rubbish trucks.
How nice would that be for all of those people to no longer be woken in the early hours of the morning by a big old dirty diesel truck accelerating and braking every 10 meters up and down their streets. https://thedriven.io/2018/10/04/waste-trucks/ (https://thedriven.io/2018/10/04/waste-trucks/)
Post by: PWE on May 19, 2019, 08:34:45 AM
Fully charge range is only 80km to 160km, so no overlander, but great for the underground mine.
Post by: gronk on May 19, 2019, 08:36:23 AM
I’m pretty sure they’re the same/similar to the ones BHP are already running underground at their Olympic Dam site.
They’re also testing full electric heavy vehicles now with hopes to eliminate all of the toxic diesel fumes in their underground operations. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-29/bhp-biggest-miners-are-starting-to-drive-evs-deep-underground (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-29/bhp-biggest-miners-are-starting-to-drive-evs-deep-underground)
There’s plenty of electric heavy vehicles getting around already.
Right now all of the buses at Brisbane airport today are full electric. That’s the whole fleet that is running around between both airports and the big car parking areas. https://newsroom.bne.com.au/new-electric-buses-at-brisbane-airport-a-winwin-for-travellers-and-the-environment/ (https://newsroom.bne.com.au/new-electric-buses-at-brisbane-airport-a-winwin-for-travellers-and-the-environment/)
And Casey council in Victoria has joined the many, many councils in NZ that are running fleets of full electric rubbish trucks.
How nice would that be for all of those people to no longer be woken in the early hours of the morning by a big old dirty diesel truck accelerating and braking every 10 meters up and down their streets. https://thedriven.io/2018/10/04/waste-trucks/ (https://thedriven.io/2018/10/04/waste-trucks/)
Had big battery powered loaders in underground mines 20yrs ago......they would come in for a battery pod change at least once a shift.....each pod would weigh approx 2 ton....and still remember the spiel from the supplier, a 12 inch shifter , if let fall across the terminals, would take approx 4 seconds to vaporise......so there are some serious amps to deal with.....just another side to the clean, green EV equation..
Post by: Fizzie on May 19, 2019, 01:22:38 PM
and still remember the spiel from the supplier, a 12 inch shifter , if let fall across the terminals, would take approx 4 seconds to vaporise.....
Remember fitting some gear in the back of an Army Land-Rover radio vehicle with 24v power supply, & dropping a shifter, which fell across the battery terminals :-[ ::)
Big flash, shifter thrown several metres away, & about a 5mm chunk of metal blown out of the handle :o
Was "somewhat" ;D more careful after that!
Post by: AdrianLR on May 20, 2019, 09:36:18 PM
https://thedriven.io/2019/05/20/rivian-shows-off-camp-kitchen-prototype-powered-by-all-electric-ute/
Post by: kizza1 on May 20, 2019, 10:04:56 PM
https://bollingermotors.com/ (https://bollingermotors.com/)
Post by: edz on May 21, 2019, 12:06:20 AM
Guessing sailing ships will have to make a return in a modern form too " Super container / tanker sailors " Going to need a hell of a lot of cotton or hemp for sails once fossil fuels get the heave ho .. New employment prospects for all the out of work oil industry people ..
Not to mention Air travel is going to be a bit reduced to go EV Green..
Wonder what theyre going to use instead of all the dirty petro chemical byproduct plastics in these new glorified green golf buggies .. Say good bye to a lot of everyday world wide plastic stuff used .. better start growing more trees . ;)
Post by: #jonesy on May 21, 2019, 05:23:21 AM
Did someone say electric brick
https://bollingermotors.com/ (https://bollingermotors.com/)
From the site
Will the trucks have airbags?
No, air bags will not be in the final produced trucks. We are engineering the B1 and B2 to safety standards that exceed federal regulation using seat belts.
Wow this new tech is great!!
Post by: Paddler Ed on May 21, 2019, 08:24:13 AM
From the site
Will the trucks have airbags?
No, air bags will not be in the final produced trucks. We are engineering the B1 and B2 to safety standards that exceed federal regulation using seat belts.
Wow this new tech is great!!
That's because in America the airbag is used as a Supplementary Restraint System - which is why so many of the early European cars had SRS on their steering wheels or as the dashboard light. IIRC they were also bigger airbags fitted in the models that were sold on the US market as a result - the land of the free didn't make you wear a seatbelt, or if you did, they made it as easy as possible to put one on (see all the stupid looking track systems to help you...)
Post by: Fizzie on May 21, 2019, 09:58:06 AM
Have been following the Rivian for a while. Specs including range and towing are solid.
Haven't seen them before at all, but 5 tonnes towing seems a hell of a lot ???
& wading to 1m - what happens if your batteries get wet ??? Will it short them out or are they, & all the cables & so on, sealed in some way ???
Post by: Fizzie on May 21, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
Did someone say electric brick
I'm sure my kids made that out of Lego a while back :D
Post by: #jonesy on May 21, 2019, 02:58:20 PM
That's because in America the airbag is used as a Supplementary Restraint System - which is why so many of the early European cars had SRS on their steering wheels or as the dashboard light. IIRC they were also bigger airbags fitted in the models that were sold on the US market as a result - the land of the free didn't make you wear a seatbelt, or if you did, they made it as easy as possible to put one on (see all the stupid looking track systems to help you...)SRS is on all airbags in Aust. The are supplemental to seatbelts, i.e. offer extra protection.
U.S. I believe are programmed to fire at a different rate / bigger to compensate for no seatbelt.
I thought it was odd that they effectively say you don't need airbags if you have a seatbelt on.
Post by: tryagain on May 26, 2019, 01:48:16 PM
Post by: tryagain on June 04, 2019, 10:22:45 AM
(https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-pickup-truck-will-cost-less-than-50k?)
(https://static.interestingengineering.com/img/iea/JYG05Y9J61/sizes/truck_resize_md.jpg)
Post by: Bird on June 04, 2019, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: tryagain
(https://static.interestingengineering.com/img/iea/JYG05Y9J61/sizes/truck_resize_md.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/zrgR05B.jpg)
Post by: Ozsnowman on June 05, 2019, 01:30:34 PM
The tesla ute/truck https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-pickup-truck-will-cost-less-than-50k?
(https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-pickup-truck-will-cost-less-than-50k?)
(https://static.interestingengineering.com/img/iea/JYG05Y9J61/sizes/truck_resize_md.jpg)
Not official render - just a fan job. I guess it will look far different when it is finally revealed
Post by: edz on June 06, 2019, 12:11:22 PM
Post by: Robbo on June 06, 2019, 03:23:54 PM
Victorian Police go for Tesla EV patrol cars https://www.caradvice.com.au/762581/tesla-model-x-vic-highway-patrol/As long as you've got a full tank of gas, they will run out of power before you run out of petrol.
Sent from my SM-J600G using Tapatalk
Post by: Bird on June 06, 2019, 04:35:47 PM
As long as you've got a full tank of gas, they will run out of power before you run out of petrol.:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
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Post by: PWE on June 06, 2019, 07:52:42 PM
As long as you've got a full tank of gas, they will run out of power before you run out of petrol.Gold
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Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on June 08, 2019, 11:02:41 PM
Post by: edz on June 27, 2019, 07:24:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wczZSh1vAVM
Post by: Bird on July 29, 2019, 12:47:59 PM
Quote
While Rivian and Tesla talk a big game and argue among themselves about who will release the first all-electric pick-up/ute, Nissan and Chinese manufacturer Dongfeng have combined forces to beat them to it with the Rich 6 EV. Based off the Navara’s body the Rich ute range traditionally was supplied with either a petrol or diesel engine.
...In the Rich 6 EV, that engine has been replaced by a single 68kWh electric motor that reaches the astounding figures of 119kW and 420Nm. The Nissan Dongfeng collaboration has an uninspiringly low payload of 490kg, along with a claimed top speed of 110km/h and more importantly a claimed range of 403km.
https://mr4x4.com.au/new-navara-electric-ute/
Post by: prodigyrf on August 29, 2019, 01:30:37 AM
https://www.thegwpf.com/new-report-electric-cars-have-higher-co2-emissions/
The graph tells the story if you're running one on Tas hydro vs Vic brown coal naturally.
Here's more on how Norway can be a world leader with EV penetration as that article notes with the Hyundai i30 pricing over there-
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/02/norway-electric-cars-subsidies-fossil-fuel
I guess you can bankroll anything like that if you've got a big piggybank Future Fund made from North Sea oil and perhaps that should be our tack.
We just want to build a big piggybank for the same with our coal and LNG.
Post by: prodigyrf on August 29, 2019, 02:01:21 AM
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49425402
The further out of reach they are from having to be interrupted by messy trivialities like local elections the better they're able to understand the really big picture on all our behalf :-*
Post by: Fizzie on August 30, 2019, 07:59:09 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/hydrogen-cars-could-be-commercial-by-2025/11456626 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/hydrogen-cars-could-be-commercial-by-2025/11456626)
Better range, but same problem with refueling in the bush though!
Post by: sparksy on September 08, 2019, 09:11:30 PM
& for another alternative:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/hydrogen-cars-could-be-commercial-by-2025/11456626 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/hydrogen-cars-could-be-commercial-by-2025/11456626)
Better range, but same problem with refueling in the bush though!
Not here :D
(https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?attachments/cda93629-3999-4ff7-83f0-cd83e39b2873-jpeg.63252/)
So much for reducing greenhouse gasses.
Post by: gronk on September 09, 2019, 10:10:49 AM
Not here :D
(https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?attachments/cda93629-3999-4ff7-83f0-cd83e39b2873-jpeg.63252/)
So much for reducing greenhouse gasses.
Makes a lot of sense.....run a diesel gennie....probably without a dpf, to put out a piddling 20A for that one car.
All this renewable talk has been put down by claims it will make almost zero difference to global emissions.
Post by: Bird on October 30, 2019, 09:28:30 AM
Nissan Leaf $33,000 battery bill
“I bought an electric car from Nissan with 5 years warranty on the battery. They claimed 175km range. From new I only ever got 120km. Now I can BARELY get 35-40km during winter or even 25km if I use the heater. The warranty says the battery is bad if it drops to 8 out of 12 bars, which mine has.
“I took it in and they claim the battery is totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with it and gave me a $33,000 invoice for a new one!!!!! Nissan just won’t listen and I’ve run out of all hope. I paid $53,500 for this car and it’s pretty useless now.” - Phillip Carlson
Here’s the official battery replacement quote from Lennock Motors in the ACT. $750 to replace the battery, an incredible $29,600 for the battery, you Nissan chumps. Plus GST: that’s $33,385 in total. On a Shitheap worth $12k, on a good day today.
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/51297e5de4b01fa6748bc904/1569907374441-NU1QLV0OKT1EWN1RS2F3/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kLTeX5AuO6ym2H0nm1fmhxF7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z5QHyNOqBUUEtDDsRWrJLTmJdLpeZW_ttQnjXwTxihzWIvniZMJCzBycGwtbcgd4SxddYJfhKTlXBd5JcSU3EA5/IMG_0010.jpg?format=1500w)
https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/astonishing-30k-nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-bill (https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/astonishing-30k-nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-bill)
Post by: edz on October 30, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Post by: Pottsy on October 30, 2019, 11:41:07 AM
Post by: sharkcaver on October 30, 2019, 06:36:21 PM
T'was a good idea at the time....not so good now.
Post by: kizza1 on October 30, 2019, 06:39:04 PM
Post by: Bird on October 30, 2019, 06:48:46 PM
Ls3 swapLS3 would be bigger than the car LOL
Post by: alnjan on October 30, 2019, 06:57:54 PM
And when the time comes for all EV owners to have to replace their battery (which will happen sometime), I bet their EV purchase is then not looking so bright hey!
T'was a good idea at the time....not so good now.
That's what makes them renewable, time to trade in on a new one
Post by: edz on October 30, 2019, 07:22:54 PM
If only ..
Well this one is ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFbvYeFO8w4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFbvYeFO8w4)
Post by: Bird on October 30, 2019, 08:55:45 PM
TESLA EV FIXED ......... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHA6urtPhDQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHA6urtPhDQ)Smartcar. Fixed.... but fixed years ago
If only ..
Well this one is ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFbvYeFO8w4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFbvYeFO8w4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgwzHJo3IXM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgwzHJo3IXM)
Post by: prodigyrf on November 03, 2019, 12:47:19 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/why-bmw-believes-were-not-ready-for-evs-yet/ar-AAJviuE
whereas Toyota are backing the half way house with hybrids and if you package it up in an SUV people want to buy the guess what?
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/toyota-rav4-hybrid-wait-time-up-to-six-months-but-now-you-can-rent-a-camry-to-tide-you-over
The extra cost for a hybrid will pay you back in around 3 years apparently with largely urban driving (negligible benefit on the highway) whereas the sticker price of EVs won't ever unless fuel prices go sky high.
Post by: prodigyrf on November 03, 2019, 01:01:14 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/research/is-this-australias-cheapest-mid-size-suv-ev/ar-AAJsg4X
because it looks like Kia have given up for the time being on all you cheap bastards down under not doing your bit to save the planet-
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/hitech/why-kias-new-eniro-electric-car-is-offlimits-in-australia/news-story/9805176556708e936040e2a641f3853c
Post by: edz on November 03, 2019, 04:41:05 PM
Post by: Ozsnowman on November 04, 2019, 01:36:52 PM
Post by: WilSurf on November 05, 2019, 01:31:25 PM
Post by: Paddler Ed on November 05, 2019, 01:56:18 PM
Interesting doco yesterday on SBS "Who killed the EV1?"
Yep, I wanted an early night... well, that idea went out the window!
It was very interesting in the purchasing of the technology by those who would like to restrict it...
Post by: Pottsy on November 05, 2019, 03:04:23 PM
Yep, I wanted an early night... well, that idea went out the window!
It was very interesting in the purchasing of the technology by those who would like to restrict it...
Remember Ralph Sarich and his engine, I think that technology was bought and restricted as well.
Post by: prodigyrf on November 09, 2019, 02:53:15 PM
Remember Ralph Sarich and his engine, I think that technology was bought and restricted as well.
Not quite as the Sarich engine originally offered reduced fuel consumption in response to the Arab oil crisis but its long development time meant conventional piston engine technology along with fuel injection kept pace with that and ultimately Sarich's engine couldn't overcome a number of design problems to compete-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarich_orbital_engine
Nevertheless the need for direct injection did produce leading technology in that field and in conjunction with Siemens and their Synerject project commercialised that-
http://www.italiaspeed.com/news_2003/news_2003_081orbital.html
As well as developing a direct injection two stroke piston engine that didn't consume oil Orbital Engine Company became an engineering and fuel testing company for other carmakers as a result although that business waned and it would appear with their ability with small engine combustion technology and various fuels they're now well established in the UAV sector-
https://orbitaluav.com/about-us/our-business/
So they've had a few changes of direction over the years from Mr Sarich's initial foray into automotive engines and you can't afford to stand still in any fast moving technological sector but constantly adapt to the marketplace and go where the profitable returns are. There's no conspiracy to be had in a global marketplace as build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door with plenty of imitators to follow. After all why on earth would you sit on clearly advantageous technology leaving all the returns to others in future? It's an urban myth that anyone or any corporation would do so as it's hard enough kicking and gouging in the existing marketplace with well known technology and you're always looking for an edge over your competitors.
Post by: briann532 on November 09, 2019, 06:35:43 PM
As it turns out EV is not so good. Who would have thought???
I run my car on a truly recycled fuel and it runs well and goes far and is efficient. Engine probably good for half a million clicks if I take care of it too.
Yep recycled dinosaurs. They give oil which fuels my car.
It's a good system.
Post by: Pete79 on November 09, 2019, 07:34:19 PM
One dinosaur feeding on other dinosaurs.... ;D ;)
Post by: briann532 on November 10, 2019, 06:58:22 AM
Isn’t that cannibalism?
One dinosaur feeding on other dinosaurs.... ;D ;)
I resemble that remark. ;D
Post by: Spada on November 10, 2019, 07:27:18 AM
I still electric vehicles only being practical in an urban or controlled industrial environment though, due to the problems with remote charging though?
Post by: prodigyrf on November 10, 2019, 11:02:15 AM
As far as EVs go they're too dear for most but you might have to set your sights on a hybrid in future as they keep ramping up emissions standards to strangle the ICE and the domestic diesel will be the first to go with their problematic vac bags up the exhaust already. In that respect get ready for GPF with your petrol engines too-
https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/features/gasoline-particulate-filter-gpf/
That's why carmakers like Hyundai are sniffing the wind on hybrids now with Toyota's RAV4 success-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/hyundais-plan-to-topple-toyota/ar-AAJQUDc
All sorts of development going on in that respect and the old 12V battery might have had its day-
https://dieselnet.com/news/2017/10daimler.php
It's logical if diesels can't cut it with emissions and petrol lacks torque (or if you design one for torque the fuel economy and emissions suffer)you can get around that to some extent using the benefits of electric motors to get the load off the line until the petrol engine takes over with optimum rpm and as well you can recover waste energy with regenerative braking.
Post by: Bigfish on November 11, 2019, 06:11:07 PM
South Australian researchers from the University of Adelaide have secured an A$1 million research contract with a Chinese battery manufacturer to develop the new technology and bring it to market within 12 months.
The patented design uses non-toxic zinc and manganese, two metals that are abundant in Australia, and incombustible aqueous electrolyte to produce a battery with a high-energy density.
The researchers estimate the cost of this new electrolytic Zn–Mn battery to be less than US$ 10 per kWh compared with US$ 300 per kWh for current Li-ion batteries, US$ 72 per kWh for Ni–Fe batteries and US$ 48 per kWh for Lead–acid batteries.
The battery is designed by Dr Dongliang Chao and Professor Shi-Zhang Qiao from the University of Adelaide’s School of Chemical Engineering and Advanced Materials.
The high-energy, safe battery opens up markets where the battery weight, size and safety are essential factors, including automotive and aerospace, and domestic and commercial buildings, and grid-scale energy storage.
Dr Chao said although there were other Zn-Mn batteries on the market such as the dry cell, they were not rechargeable or recyclable and did not present high-energy density due to a different chemical reaction mechanism.
“I can imagine this battery being used on all vehicle types from small scooters to even diesel electric trains. Also in homes that need batteries to store solar power, or even large solar/wind farms,” he said.
“With more sustainable energy being produced – such as through wind and solar farms – storing this energy in batteries in a safe, non-expensive and environmentally sound way is becoming more urgent but current battery materials – including lithium, lead and cadmium – are expensive, hazardous and toxic.
“Our new electrolytic battery technology uses the non-toxic zinc and manganese and incombustible aqueous electrolyte to produce a battery with a high energy density.”
Dr Chao and Professor Qiao began working on the project in South Australia about 12 months ago and patented the technology at the beginning of this year.
Chinese battery manufacturer Zhuoyue Power New Energy Ltd, whose current batteries are lead-based, has committed $1 million to develop the new technology.
The ongoing research work and initial product development will be conducted in Adelaide with manufacturing expected to take place in Australia and China.
Dr Chao said the project would combine the new electrolytic battery technology and the company’s battery assembling technology.
“In addition, the battery uses basic materials and simple manufacturing processes so will be much cheaper to produce and easier to recycle than existing batteries of comparable energy density,” Dr Chao said.
Dr Chao obtained his PhD from Nanyang Technological University, Singapore, and worked as a researcher at University of California, Los Angeles, before joining the University of Adelaide in South Australia last year.
South Australia is home to the world’s largest lithium-ion battery at Neoen’s Hornsdale Wind Farm in the state’s Mid North. It is also looming as a hub for electric vehicles and hosts the World Solar Challenge, the world’s most famous solar car race.
Post by: rockrat on November 11, 2019, 06:57:30 PM
This new battery technology could be a big game changer...Just another example of Australia selling it’s assets cheaply to the Chinese. Assuming there’s some credibility to the technology I’d be happy to see the government spend a million on this in the name of climate change.
South Australian researchers from the University of Adelaide have secured an A$1 million research contract with a Chinese battery manufacturer to develop the new technology and bring it to market within 12 months.
The patented design uses non-toxic zinc and manganese, two metals that are abundant in Australia, and incombustible aqueous electrolyte to produce a battery with a high-energy density.
The researchers estimate the cost of this new electrolytic Zn–Mn battery to be less than US$ 10 per kWh compared with US$ 300 per kWh for current Li-ion batteries, US$ 72 per kWh for Ni–Fe batteries and US$ 48 per kWh for Lead–acid batteries.
The battery is designed by Dr Dongliang Chao and Professor Shi-Zhang Qiao from the University of Adelaide’s School of Chemical Engineering and Advanced Materials.
The high-energy, safe battery opens up markets where the battery weight, size and safety are essential factors, including automotive and aerospace, and domestic and commercial buildings, and grid-scale energy storage.
Dr Chao said although there were other Zn-Mn batteries on the market such as the dry cell, they were not rechargeable or recyclable and did not present high-energy density due to a different chemical reaction mechanism.
“I can imagine this battery being used on all vehicle types from small scooters to even diesel electric trains. Also in homes that need batteries to store solar power, or even large solar/wind farms,” he said.
“With more sustainable energy being produced – such as through wind and solar farms – storing this energy in batteries in a safe, non-expensive and environmentally sound way is becoming more urgent but current battery materials – including lithium, lead and cadmium – are expensive, hazardous and toxic.
“Our new electrolytic battery technology uses the non-toxic zinc and manganese and incombustible aqueous electrolyte to produce a battery with a high energy density.”
Dr Chao and Professor Qiao began working on the project in South Australia about 12 months ago and patented the technology at the beginning of this year.
Chinese battery manufacturer Zhuoyue Power New Energy Ltd, whose current batteries are lead-based, has committed $1 million to develop the new technology.
The ongoing research work and initial product development will be conducted in Adelaide with manufacturing expected to take place in Australia and China.
Dr Chao said the project would combine the new electrolytic battery technology and the company’s battery assembling technology.
“In addition, the battery uses basic materials and simple manufacturing processes so will be much cheaper to produce and easier to recycle than existing batteries of comparable energy density,” Dr Chao said.
Dr Chao obtained his PhD from Nanyang Technological University, Singapore, and worked as a researcher at University of California, Los Angeles, before joining the University of Adelaide in South Australia last year.
South Australia is home to the world’s largest lithium-ion battery at Neoen’s Hornsdale Wind Farm in the state’s Mid North. It is also looming as a hub for electric vehicles and hosts the World Solar Challenge, the world’s most famous solar car race.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Bigfish on November 11, 2019, 07:14:53 PM
Just another example of Australia selling it’s assets cheaply to the Chinese. Assuming there’s some credibility to the technology I’d be happy to see the government spend a million on this in the name of climate change.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
How the hell in this day and age can a bloody govt. not back the research and if proven lead by example and completely manufacture and distribute the batteries here in Oz. Our fed govt is just a bloody joke. I read about this technology quite a while ago and it seemed credible at the time. Hopefully it goes ahead as a winner.
Post by: tryagain on November 11, 2019, 09:34:27 PM
Having said that, one day one of them will come to fruition and will make some people very rich and a Googleplex times more difference to the environment than someone supergluing themself to a road ever did.
Post by: Rodt on November 25, 2019, 11:36:58 AM
https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/tesla-cybertruck-revealed-are-we-being-trolled/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BREAKING%3A+Ooh+my+Gawd%2C+Tesla+just+launched+Cybertruck+4X4&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+-+Tesla+4X4 (https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/tesla-cybertruck-revealed-are-we-being-trolled/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BREAKING%3A+Ooh+my+Gawd%2C+Tesla+just+launched+Cybertruck+4X4&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+-+Tesla+4X4)
Post by: Hoyks on November 25, 2019, 01:03:43 PM
The new Tesla Cybertruck. Bloody hell it is ugly
https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/tesla-cybertruck-revealed-are-we-being-trolled/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BREAKING%3A+Ooh+my+Gawd%2C+Tesla+just+launched+Cybertruck+4X4&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+-+Tesla+4X4 (https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/tesla-cybertruck-revealed-are-we-being-trolled/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BREAKING%3A+Ooh+my+Gawd%2C+Tesla+just+launched+Cybertruck+4X4&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+-+Tesla+4X4)
Not exactly masses of headroom in the back. I don't know how it would go with kids with those cut windows either.
All they'd see is the window sill and sky.
I hope the interior is water resistant and wipes clean.
(https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Cybertruck-Interior.jpg)
Post by: Bird on November 25, 2019, 01:46:26 PM
Quote from: Hoyks
Not exactly masses of headroom in the back. I don't know how it would go with kids with those cut windows either.
All they'd see is the window sill and sky.
I hope the interior is water resistant and wipes clean.
ahhh its fine, he already has 185,000 orders for em.. with a $1.00 deposit LMAO
Might order one too so I can say Im with the cool people.
Post by: briann532 on November 25, 2019, 06:34:53 PM
Post by: Hoyks on November 25, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
ahhh its fine, he already has 185,000 orders for em.. with a $1.00 deposit LMAO
Might order one too so I can say Im with the cool people.
With that kind of backing, he should be able to make another 2 of them!
Post by: Bigfish on November 25, 2019, 07:23:17 PM
ahhh its fine, he already has 185,000 orders for em.. with a $1.00 deposit LMAO
Might order one too so I can say Im with the cool people.
That was $1000...refundable if Shit hits the fan..
Post by: DandyD on November 26, 2019, 12:59:47 AM
Teslas CAN'T Tow Across Country — Watch Us Try and FAIL! | Adventure X Ep.7
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjklex38lkQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjklex38lkQ)
At least, that was the intention.
Post by: edz on November 26, 2019, 09:09:34 AM
They reckon they have distances that have nothing out there and its undoable when towing, with a population of 350 million people ..
Try 25 million people spread out in the same space .
Post by: Bird on November 26, 2019, 09:47:50 AM
Quote from: Bigfish
That was $1000...refundable if Shit hits the fan..yep big change from the 1000 for his cars, to $1 for this hideous thing LOL wonder what supply would be like...
Post by: shanegtr on November 26, 2019, 09:49:34 AM
All electric 70 series, apparently the electric drive system can be retrofitted to existing vehicles? It's built specifically for mine operations, but who knows ? - https://youtu.be/tVhquG_rCsA (https://youtu.be/tVhquG_rCsA) being done by an Aussie company in WA - https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/ (https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/)I think those electric 70 series will make a lot of sense in under ground mines - especially since diesel particulate emissions are carcinogenic and are particularly concentrated underground.
I still electric vehicles only being practical in an urban or controlled industrial environment though, due to the problems with remote charging though?
Post by: Fizzie on November 27, 2019, 09:44:15 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYRhaOd1PE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYRhaOd1PE)
Post by: edz on November 27, 2019, 11:02:40 AM
Post by: plusnq on November 27, 2019, 11:42:03 AM
Ok ok, Id have one ... There ya go, you heard Edz said he'd have an EV ... Though there would have to be a change to the bodywork / seating for me ..
That would be fun
Post by: Bird on November 27, 2019, 12:14:03 PM
Ok ok, Id have one ... There ya go, you heard Edz said he'd have an EV ... Though there would have to be a change to the bodywork / seating for me ..like this? Aussie made too :P
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZYBLTq2PGjU/Us_qRW73hPI/AAAAAAAB0d8/FexnBrEmjOQ/s800/4433a0fe-1353-438a-8af0-10df9612d70c-IMC-408F1200702.jpg)
Post by: glenm64 on November 27, 2019, 04:56:25 PM
Theres a Concept Two out soon too
https://youtu.be/eT7KKxoAvvk
https://youtu.be/iCd32Eiuxak
Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
Post by: edz on November 29, 2019, 07:55:33 AM
Post by: Fizzie on December 01, 2019, 03:27:49 PM
https://www.caradvice.com.au/811100/its-official-tesla-cybertruck-now-on-sale-in-australia/ (https://www.caradvice.com.au/811100/its-official-tesla-cybertruck-now-on-sale-in-australia/)
Post by: Pete79 on December 10, 2019, 11:21:50 PM
(https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/Tesla-Cybertruck-accelerate-elon-musk.jpg?w=1024&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1)
https://electrek.co/2019/12/10/tesla-cybertruck-prototype-accelerate-video/ (https://electrek.co/2019/12/10/tesla-cybertruck-prototype-accelerate-video/)
Post by: DandyD on December 10, 2019, 11:57:25 PM
It’s on the streets....
On the wrong side of the road.
Post by: Bigfish on December 11, 2019, 06:04:07 AM
Post by: Bird on December 11, 2019, 09:16:26 AM
Quote from: Pete79
It’s on the streets....Its on the traffic sign :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/video-elon-musk-hits-traffic-sign-tesla-cybertruck-malibu-2019-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com.au/video-elon-musk-hits-traffic-sign-tesla-cybertruck-malibu-2019-12)
Post by: Bigfish on December 12, 2019, 12:02:35 PM
Will only get better..
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/worlds-first-all-electric-commercial-aircraft-harbour-air/?fbclid=IwAR3ro0XrJX_fclhwp0Xr8rtY_SAiceBVxC7bR8IXgKPfCofxsrBnSi9YVDM
Post by: Bird on December 12, 2019, 12:58:37 PM
Worlds first commercial all electric plane takes off...pass..
Will only get better..
https://newatlas.com/aircraft/worlds-first-all-electric-commercial-aircraft-harbour-air/?fbclid=IwAR3ro0XrJX_fclhwp0Xr8rtY_SAiceBVxC7bR8IXgKPfCofxsrBnSi9YVDM
Post by: edz on December 12, 2019, 01:36:51 PM
The engine maker has to get the Electric motor Certified and its systems yet with Transport Canada [ TC has NO Electric aircraft regulations to use as guide lines on Electric flight certification ] , we think that might take about two to three years, then the Aircraft will have to be approved to use this power plant . ;D
160 Km maximum operating range, They dont say what payload it will be able to carry .
A Normal fuel powered DHC-2 Beaver can carry 953 Kg of payload.. 1 x crew/ 6 x passengers / cargo ..
Normal range is 730 Km
Post by: gronk on December 12, 2019, 05:51:10 PM
A Normal fuel powered DHC-2 Beaver can carry 953 Kg of payload.. 1 x crew/ 6 x passengers / cargo ..
Normal range is 730 Km
BUT...it's green !!
And to be able to do a return trip, range one way would be approx 50 klms, seeing as they need to have a safety margin with fuel ( battery ).....may as well use a canoe !!
Post by: edz on December 12, 2019, 06:27:01 PM
The range isnt a big issue .. Lots and lots of short haul hops .. Read somewhere they moved roughly 500, 000 people last year with their fleet of 50+ aircraft .. Thats big numbers ..
So for them Electric, If and when its certified will be a big bonus $$ wise .. Would be interesting to see if that range was at a normal load out weight ..
Post by: gronk on December 12, 2019, 08:28:44 PM
The range isnt a big issue .. Lots and lots of short haul hops ..
I'm thinking short haul in a plane would be a bit longer than 50K's.
Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.
Post by: Pete79 on December 12, 2019, 08:57:08 PM
I'm thinking short haul in a plane would be a bit longer than 50K's.Looking at all of their schedules, the vast majority of them are 20 minute flights.
Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.
Only 2 destinations are over an hour flight times (the longest being 1hr 10min).
Sounds like these planes are a pretty good solution for a company like that doing super short flights over a lake.
Savings in operating costs would allow for investment in a bigger fleet, freeing up some time to recharge throughout the day.
Post by: edz on December 12, 2019, 09:03:39 PM
Harbour currently has 14 six-passenger DHC-2 Beaver aircraft, many of which are equipped with Pratt & Whitney PT-6A turbine engines that burn about $300 worth of jet A fuel per hour. By contrast, the eBeaver packs enough battery life to fly about 100 miles at a cost of around $10 to $20 worth of electricity.
E-planes have a very limited range compared to ICE-powered models because lithium-ion batteries have less than 5 percent the energy density of gasoline or jet fuel. However, 100 miles is enough for many of the short seaplane hops around Vancouver's lower mainland. The distance between Vancouver and British Columbia capital Victoria (downtown to downtown) is 58 miles and takes about 30 minutes by plane, while the same trip on a ferry can run over four hours including driving time and waiting. (Also, as your author can attest from brutal experience, the flight is a lot less boring.)
Despite the range challenges, electric planes have big advantages over ICE-powered models. That includes lower maintenance and operating costs, no need for fueling infrastructure (other than chargers) and easier boarding on local routes. "We are proving that low-cost, environmentally friendly, commercial electric air travel can be a reality in the very near future," said Ganzarski.
End Quote :::
Be interesting to see how long a recharge / top up would take . Some places they would go to I reckon that would have be a diesel gen set . ;D
### FOUND IT ###
He expects that the MagniX installation in the Otters will give the planes at least 30 minutes of flying time. Harbour Air operates its flights under visual flight rules (VFR) regulations, which will require an additional 30-minute battery reserve.
It’ll be a while until the operational procedures and infrastructure requirements are worked out, but McDougall has been told by the propulsion system’s engineering team that recharging will be “a minute for a minute. Half an hour flight, half an hour recharge. Don’t forget you’re not charging the full battery, you still have the 30-minute reserve in the battery, so you’re going to be recharging from half.”
Post by: Fizzie on December 13, 2019, 07:57:55 AM
Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.
But if you work on land, taxi in, the first thing that happens is hook up the charger / gen set, then unload passengers & cargo for this stop, followed by new one's on, I'd reckon you'd have at least 30 minutes charge time & probably closer to 1 hour for every stop.
Do that 3 - 4 times during the day, then get a full recharge at night & it should work ???
Post by: Pottsy on December 13, 2019, 12:41:22 PM
But if you work on land, taxi in, the first thing that happens is hook up the charger / gen set, then unload passengers & cargo for this stop, followed by new one's on, I'd reckon you'd have at least 30 minutes charge time & probably closer to 1 hour for every stop.
Do that 3 - 4 times during the day, then get a full recharge at night & it should work ???
When I fly I like to hear the noise of the props or jet, somewhat reassuring that things are working, does an electric plane make noise or is it like a Prius, silent?
Post by: edz on December 13, 2019, 02:36:42 PM
Post by: gronk on December 13, 2019, 07:05:54 PM
When I fly I like to hear the noise of the props or jet, somewhat reassuring that things are working, does an electric plane make noise or is it like a Prius, silent?
Have a listen to the vid......a propeller going round at a hundred miles an hour still makes a lot of noise !! ;D
Post by: Pete79 on December 13, 2019, 07:15:02 PM
Post by: bmwfreak on December 13, 2019, 08:46:05 PM
Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.
Design the planes with a removable battery sled. Arrive at destination, slide out battery sled and replace with fully charged one. Multiple battery packs rather than multiple planes. Down time would be minimal.
Post by: edz on December 13, 2019, 10:25:23 PM
Flight regulations .
"Fuel and oil supply / power " requirements: For IFR [ Instrument flight rules ] enough fuel to reach destination, then alternate (if required), plus 45 minutes. For day VFR [ Visual Flight Rules ] enough fuel to reach destination plus 30 minutes. For night VFR, enough fuel to reach destination plus 45 minutes..
Post by: Pete79 on December 15, 2019, 09:38:00 PM
Well looks like that’s another one we can throw on the big smoking pile of untruths about alternative industries and renewables.
“All batteries lose some storage capacity over time. But how might that degradation affect your driving range a few years down the line? To help answer that question, we can now look to Geotab, a leading telematics-fleet-management company with access to a lot of EVs. Lo and behold, the losses are minor.
Geotab created its so-called EV Battery Degradation Tool by pulling data directly from the 6,300 EVs from its fleets. What’s super-cool is the interactive nature of the tool, allowing users to drill down to 21 specific electric models.
You can use the tool to slice and dice the data for yourself;
https://storage.googleapis.com/geotab-sandbox/ev-battery-degradation/index.html (https://storage.googleapis.com/geotab-sandbox/ev-battery-degradation/index.html)
In June 2018, Geotab acquired FleetCarma, a forerunner in providing technology support the use of EVs in fleets.
Here’s a quick rundown of what the data revealed:
* If current degradation rates are maintained, the vast majority of batteries will outlast the usable life of the vehicle.
* The average decline in energy storage is 2.3% per year. For a 150-mile EV, you’re likely to lose 17 miles of accessible range after five years.
* EV batteries decline in a non-linear fashion. There’s an early drop, but the rate of decline slows down in subsequent years.
* Liquid-cooled batteries decline slower than air-cooled packs. Geotab saw that a 2015 Tesla Model S with liquid cooling had an average annual degradation rate of 2.3%, compared to an air-cooled 2015 Nissan Leaf’s rate of 4.2%.
* Battery-powered vehicles that have bigger state-of-charge buffers fare better. In other words, some carmakers use a smaller percentage of the battery’s capacity, which reduces usable range. But the conservative approach slows down the degradation rate, most notably in early versions of the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid.
* Higher vehicle use does not necessarily equal higher battery degradation.
* Vehicles driven in hot temperatures show a faster decline in battery health.
* The use of DC fast-chargers speeds up the process of degradation, but there’s not much difference in battery health based on frequent use of Level 1 versus Leve 2 charging. Losses that happen with frequent DC charging are made worse in hot climates.”
Post by: gronk on December 16, 2019, 05:38:05 AM
Post by: PWE on December 16, 2019, 06:06:31 AM
Anyway, I had my Tesla Model 3 for two months and it is great.
Other than planning your trips, it is the same as any new sports car - full of gadgets and tech stuff.
Performance is second to none - 3.2s to 100km/hr
When I miss the sound of a big engine, I just start and drive my Landcruiser 76!
Link below comparison between a BMW M3 vs Tesla Model 3 Performance
BMW cost more and have that ongoing petrol cost.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DSRWKxytW40
Post by: Bigfish on December 16, 2019, 06:47:00 AM
Post by: Bigfish on December 16, 2019, 06:51:31 AM
These same arguments could be said about batteries that RV's use.........but we all know it's very rare to get 10yrs or more out of a battery.
I normally get 7 years out of my dumb Fullriver agm,s. However RV,s do not have very stringent and specific maintenance schedules like aircraft do. I,d doubt that the batteries would be just left to sit and be charged every now and again without a critical inspection regularly and extensive.. Like many parts of an aircraft they would probably be changed after so many hours.. The batteries will get smaller , more powerful and longer lasting..I,m sure.
Post by: edz on December 16, 2019, 07:23:37 AM
Post by: Pete79 on December 16, 2019, 07:37:09 AM
We are all assuming that the lithium batteries these planes use are going to be the current generation of lithium. Science is playing a huge behind the scenes game developing batteries that will easily double the time and power output of the current generation. They also dont have to be lithium. Have read of other materials being used with outstanding results. Renewable energy science is raging ahead. .Not only science, but there are many famous billionaires also playing around behind the scenes to bring us even more variety in battery technology.
In October of this year, ESS, a manufacturer of low-cost, long-duration, iron-flow batteries for the global renewable energy infrastructure, secured $30 million in a Series C investment round from Breakthrough Energy Ventures, the group of private investors led by Bill Gates and fellow billionaires Jeff Bezos, Michael Bloomberg, Richard Branson and Jack Ma, among others.
Iron flow batteries (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/10/new-generation-flow-batteries-could-eventually-sustain-grid-powered-sun-and-wind) are specifically for large scale electricity projects, and soon that old “when the sun isn’t shining and wind isn’t blowing” argument that has been posted several times in here will also be mute.
It’s a pretty simple concept, just need some iron and a couple of tanks.
I’m pretty sure Australia has a little bit of iron and a few people that can make tanks.
The only thing we’re missing is some politicians with the balls to stand up to the shouting deniers that are surrounding them right now. And have the guts to set us up to be a powerhouse of the future by building a manufacturing industry for renewable technologies.
But apparently to do anything that even remotely looks like your helping renewables means your accepting that climate change is actually happening. And as we all know as soon as a prime minister admits that, they get replaced by the next puppet pretty quickly.
Post by: Bigfish on December 16, 2019, 09:27:45 AM
The country has gone passed the drought issue. We are in a disaster scenario. scomo....fiddled while Oz burnt..
Post by: edz on December 16, 2019, 10:01:52 AM
Which is a pain to have sitting there when you are virtualy out of drinking water and not allowed to touch the fire tank..
Imagine dying of thirst / cant afford water and having to look at an ice cold 10.000 lt tank full .
My brother put in over 40.000 gallons of tankage before he died and even thats nearly run dry with frugal water usage by my SIL . Bar the fire tank .
New build houses around here must have 5000 Lt water tanks for toilet / garden and general water use .
All coastal storm water run off should be piped to dams and treated for uses other than drinking water too, instead of into the rivers / oceans ..
Post by: tryagain on December 16, 2019, 03:33:38 PM
The current government has no balls whatsoever and before the next election we need a big change of heart and ideologies before any major party should be voted in. Bucketful of prayers and hope does f all for anyone!!
The country has gone passed the drought issue. We are in a disaster scenario. scomo....fiddled while Oz burnt..
This is a good read in my opinion https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/joe-hildebrand-whos-really-to-blame-for-climate-failure/news-story/8be82b54fac3cd714f62b956764d99bb (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/joe-hildebrand-whos-really-to-blame-for-climate-failure/news-story/8be82b54fac3cd714f62b956764d99bb)
Post by: Bigfish on December 16, 2019, 04:15:06 PM
This is a good read in my opinion https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/joe-hildebrand-whos-really-to-blame-for-climate-failure/news-story/8be82b54fac3cd714f62b956764d99bb (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/joe-hildebrand-whos-really-to-blame-for-climate-failure/news-story/8be82b54fac3cd714f62b956764d99bb)
Good article that makes sense.
Post by: gronk on December 16, 2019, 08:37:17 PM
Funny you should mention storage tanks. With all the disasters happening around Australia due to water supply and quality I would have expected the state and federal governments to mandate that all new houses have to have a large water tank installed to catch rain water (when and if it rains!).
All new houses around here (central coast nsw ) are compulsory. A lot of other council areas probably are too ??
Post by: Rodt on December 17, 2019, 05:55:35 AM
All new houses around here (central coast nsw ) are compulsory. A lot of other council areas probably are too ??
Shh Gronk as that means that not everything is the governments fault :cheers:
Post by: Fizzie on December 17, 2019, 06:56:49 AM
* Vehicles driven in hot temperatures show a faster decline in battery health.
* Losses that happen with frequent DC charging are made worse in hot climates.”
Interesting, thanks Pete.
I wonder what they call "hot" - 25 / 30 / 40C ???
Post by: edz on December 17, 2019, 07:33:02 AM
Guess thats where the battery cooling system comes into play, though that will use more battery power and reduce range ... They are learning everything is a trade off with limited power / range of a battery set up, until they can get more energy density from the batteries its going to be a struggle . .
Post by: Bigfish on December 17, 2019, 07:48:32 AM
Interesting, thanks Pete.
I wonder what they call "hot" - 25 / 30 / 40C ???
I think hot would be in relation to the temp under the bonnet for your normal wet cell battery. The lithium based ones used in most vehicles are well shielded and ventilated.
Post by: KeithB on December 17, 2019, 09:32:41 AM
K
Post by: edz on December 17, 2019, 04:59:59 PM
If they were truly serious about being off grid, they would have a drinking water purifier / maker built in too ..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQCsWucaVio (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQCsWucaVio) .
I do wish all these Hype " Its Totaly Green " and saving the Planet types, would realise how the factories / transport that built most every part of these things has used fossil fuels to some extent to do it ..
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on December 17, 2019, 05:46:40 PM
Post by: gronk on December 17, 2019, 07:22:29 PM
A lot of shires discourage water tanks as you do not buy water off them
Around our area 10 yrs ago, they made residential houses remove water tanks.
10 yrs later, they made them compulsory for all new houses.
Councils are just like govt departments, they have no idea how to run an organisation..
Post by: briann532 on December 17, 2019, 08:09:41 PM
Around our area 10 yrs ago, they made residential houses remove water tanks.
10 yrs later, they made them compulsory for all new houses.
Councils are just like govt departments, they have no idea how to run an organisation..
Couldn't agree more!!!
Imagine if they had to work in the private sector.
Unemployment would go up for sure.
Post by: Pete79 on December 26, 2019, 01:24:14 PM
We all know that tank turns are so overrated anyways..... ;)
https://youtu.be/yzwM8KE2L3I (https://youtu.be/yzwM8KE2L3I)
Post by: Bird on December 26, 2019, 02:34:38 PM
Why on earth would anyone want an electric carfixed for you.
Post by: Pete79 on December 26, 2019, 08:57:17 PM
fixed for you.754 hp / 562 kw
826 lb-ft / 1220 Nm of torque
0 - 100 in 3 seconds
Individual drive on each wheel and no diffs in the way give 360mm of ground clearance, plus airbag suspension to raise and lower as required.
Yes please...!!! ;D
Makes the pootrol’s 174hp & 540Nm look like the dinosaur that it is...
But on the bright side, even the dinosaurs evolved into chickens eventually.
You never know your luck, maybe your troll will be the chicken of the future... ;D :cheers:
Post by: gronk on December 26, 2019, 09:44:14 PM
754 hp / 562 kw
826 lb-ft / 1220 Nm of torque
0 - 100 in 3 seconds
Individual drive on each wheel and no diffs in the way give 360mm of ground clearance, plus airbag suspension to raise and lower as required.
Yes please...!!! ;D
And when out bush and the battery goes flat, you hope it isn't under trees so the solar panel on the roof can recharge it.....in approx 5 hrs !! ;D
Makes the pootrol’s 174hp & 540Nm look like the dinosaur that it is...
But on the bright side, even the dinosaurs evolved into chickens eventually.
You never know your luck, maybe your troll will be the chicken of the future... ;D :cheers:
Post by: Pete79 on December 26, 2019, 10:09:01 PM
And what’s the distilling time to brew up a batch of diesel in the bush when the cruiser has been chewing 25L/100k on soft sand and you haven’t made it to the next fuel station?? ;) :P
Post by: gronk on December 26, 2019, 10:26:45 PM
5 hours to recharge for free sounds pretty good....
Only if you went wheeling in the morning !! ;D
Post by: Fizzie on December 27, 2019, 08:39:12 AM
Only if you went wheeling in the morning !! ;D
Hello, Boss ???
Sorry, I'm having car problems. I'm going to have stay camped out here on the side of this Creek for another couple of days to get enough power back in the car to make it home.
See you no later than Wednesday or Thursday though ;D
Post by: edz on December 27, 2019, 02:53:08 PM
Home made bar work and a gazillion light bars, doing Tank turns in every town, Brings a whole new meaning to " Circle Work " for the country kids .. Or doing O'ies .. ;D ;D
Post by: tombie on December 27, 2019, 02:57:13 PM
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Post by: edz on December 29, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
Post by: Nifty1 on January 04, 2020, 08:54:19 AM
Post by: edz on January 04, 2020, 09:21:03 AM
Does your Tesla or EV take AAA ...AA .... Or 9V batteries ? sir / madam .. :D
Post by: Fizzie on January 04, 2020, 11:54:17 AM
"only one servo at Narooma has fuel, and only unleaded, no diesel available so a lot of tourists are stranded"
Post by: Paddler Ed on January 04, 2020, 12:01:07 PM
But... (from another forum 5pm yesterday)
"only one servo at Narooma has fuel, and only unleaded, no diesel available so a lot of tourists are stranded"
The servo might have one diesel tank, but have 3 petrol tanks... At times I'm glad my 80 is petrol for that sort of thing... the diesel 45 ute? Well, that runs on cooking oil at a push, and 20 litres of that would get me nearly 200kms.
Post by: tombie on January 04, 2020, 12:22:58 PM
Ahhh but the power grids in these towns are down due to the fires in most places or been shutdown for safety ......
Does your Tesla or EV take AAA ...AA .... Or 9V batteries ? sir / madam .. :D
Does the burnt down servo in your town pump diesel or petrol?
Solar
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Post by: tombie on January 04, 2020, 12:26:36 PM
Some wag commented regarding the 2 hour queues to get petrol to evacuate the South Coast - imagine the shambles if they all then took 2 hours to recharge...
As an example - A Tesla 3 can put 250km range in under 15min. Hardly a problem.
Also, most EV users will hook up when they get to where they’re staying, so people holidaying will likely have an almost full range vehicle.
How many people get somewhere running sub 1/4 of a tank and park up until they’re ready to go on the next run?
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Post by: gronk on January 04, 2020, 03:10:02 PM
As an example - A Tesla 3 can put 250km range in under 15min. Hardly a problem.
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It is if there is no power.
No power, no petrol pumps and no Tesla either......amazing how we rely on that dirty coal fired power.
Post by: Fizzie on January 04, 2020, 04:30:51 PM
Post by: #jonesy on January 04, 2020, 04:32:00 PM
Post by: Bird on January 04, 2020, 04:50:27 PM
Old school manual card machines, are they still an option?
i've been to servos that have used them in last few years, when theres a bank outage - which is regularly...
Post by: tombie on January 04, 2020, 08:46:33 PM
It is if there is no power.
No power, no petrol pumps and no Tesla either......amazing how we rely on that dirty coal fired power.
Solar works
. If we had an EV we could charge here off PV and Battery.As I mentioned, you’ll find EV owners don’t run around on the bottom of their “tank” like ICE owners. All those with EVs that I’ve met are far more diligent.
FYI- That Coal fired power is still more efficient / emissions are lower for the energy required to charge those EVs than the emissions from burning diesel/petrol to power a vehicle.
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Post by: edz on January 21, 2020, 02:18:41 PM
Post by: Bird on January 21, 2020, 02:40:36 PM
Post by: MB TD42 on January 21, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Pretty sure we are in short supply of copper as well...great gimic...implications in change over could be 100s of years away realistically...
My 2 cents...
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Post by: alnjan on January 21, 2020, 06:13:47 PM
https://www.disclose.tv/new-test-reveals-electric-cars-are-practically-unusable-in-winter-383233?fbclid=IwAR1zll9-ovNiCXqLO0Dgiv2q1dlKNAs7RptEu646LIiP7ADpQJFbqqo2sw8 (https://www.disclose.tv/new-test-reveals-electric-cars-are-practically-unusable-in-winter-383233?fbclid=IwAR1zll9-ovNiCXqLO0Dgiv2q1dlKNAs7RptEu646LIiP7ADpQJFbqqo2sw8)
"A new comparative test of the car picture shows that electric cars massively lose range in winter. In frosty temperatures, the range of four out of five test candidates dropped to under 70 kilometers, and that of the Renault Zoe to under 60 kilometers.
Due to its enormous battery, only the Tesla Model S was able to reach a range of over 200 kilometers even in winter temperatures, but the luxury car is in a price range (it is available from 78,000 euros) that most drivers simply cannot cope with."
Post by: MB TD42 on January 21, 2020, 07:31:47 PM
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Post by: rockrat on January 21, 2020, 08:25:59 PM
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Post by: tombie on January 21, 2020, 08:43:28 PM
I believe they will need to rethink climate control as well...it would decimate range in high temps...keeping the batteries cool would be the biggest problem on bitumen roads...instant inferno with Lipo examples.
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Tesla battery packs are liquid cooled to control battery temp and the vehicles also run a very effective AC. Plenty of areas in the USA have the same temperatures as here and lots of Tesla getting around without a problem.
I know someone with a Tesla and happily does country runs in 40°c+ without issue and gets close to the advertised range with the cabin nice and cool.
A neat function is to pull up at a shop etc and put the vehicle in Pet mode.
A large sign appears on the screen saying the vehicle is climate controlled and pet is safe - vehicle then sits cooling the cabin.
We ran a comparison of our recent runs back and forth to Adelaide. We’ve done 19 trips in 3 months at over 900km return each.
Fuel cost is about $140 a trip x 19 = $2660.00 in Diesel
If we had used our friends Tesla it would have been $120.00 in electricity. Each trip would require no more than 15 min at the Charger to easily make the return trip with a good 250km range to spare.
If the tech is this good now; imagine where it will be soon.
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Post by: MB TD42 on January 21, 2020, 09:54:58 PM
The other problem is having to change the batteries...2 years was a suggestion...5to 30k for a battery pack?
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Post by: gronk on January 21, 2020, 10:00:06 PM
And the powers that be will soon find a way of charging you more for recharging an electric car than the normal household rate.
Post by: tombie on January 21, 2020, 10:06:23 PM
900 K's round trip...Model S has a max range of 600 K's, so a realistic 500K's. So a full recharge needed at the 1/2 way point, and without a supercharger, approx 10hrs to charge with a normal power point from 1/2 charged ( which it won't be...more like 3/4 flat )
And the powers that be will soon find a way of charging you more for recharging an electric car than the normal household rate.
There’s 6 Supercharger sites on the common routes from here to Adelaide.
Putting enough charge to comfortably return takes about 15m (a coffee stop).
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Post by: tombie on January 21, 2020, 10:15:39 PM
Best wishes to the wealthy...were the trips fully loaded...towing?
The other problem is having to change the batteries...2 years was a suggestion...5to 30k for a battery pack?
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Nothing to do with wealth, Patrols weren’t cheap new either.
I’ll pose it to you thus... what’s your vehicle drink towing? Certainly more than when not. It will all get sorted as the tech matures.
Not sure where you’re getting the battery info from - from Owners forums they’re getting 5 years+ and some serious mileages. If you compare a new ICE vehicle doing average kilometres... (let’s assume workshop servicing)
$1000 for two full services a year
$3500 in fuel
That alone is $22,500 over 5 years.
Safe travels.
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Post by: MB TD42 on January 21, 2020, 10:52:06 PM
Anyways ...our Aussie average income is only around 44k a year... less that 20% of Aussies can afford to purchase a car that cost more than 15k let alone buy a home..replacing 30k worth of batteries every couple of years would hurt...those who can afford are not part of the majority in Australia.
It will start as a privelidge...but who will fund the rest? I should say public transport should be upgraded first...
Removing combustion engines from the commercial transport industry. Rail Truck and public transport sectors first.
One yhing is sure...Plenty to be considered.
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Post by: edz on January 21, 2020, 10:56:48 PM
Tow test is interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhX3BmhJXc8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhX3BmhJXc8) >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVSHIZihESk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVSHIZihESk) there are a few in this series ..
Post by: #jonesy on January 22, 2020, 05:38:45 AM
I should say public transport should be upgraded first...
Hear that all the time but how?
Rail can only get so big. Your destination has to be close to the station.
Trams not much better.
Buses take a along time.
My trip to work is 25 min, as I go in a circle around Melbourne.
Train would be walk to the station 10 min. Train to Clifton Hill 35 min. Swap trains, 10 minutes and back out on the Mernda line. 35 min. Walk to work. 10.10 min. Over 1 1/2 hours all going well.
Bus is over 1 hour, plus walking time.
Public transport can't tow my camper.
Cant load a week's shopping onto public transport.
Tradies can't carry tools
Everytime I hear public transport should be improved it sounds like we want other people to use public transport to leave the roads clear for me.
Post by: gronk on January 22, 2020, 05:44:42 AM
There’s 6 Supercharger sites on the common routes from here to Adelaide.
Putting enough charge to comfortably return takes about 15m (a coffee stop).
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From memory, a supercharger will take approx 30mins, from 1/2 charged, so you'd need 2 of those.
No problem if you don't mind waiting around, but these days it's all about convenience, and electric cars are just not there yet.
I'll wait around for the nuclear fuel cell cars to arrive before I go away from conventional piston engines !!
Post by: Harbourmaster on January 22, 2020, 08:45:45 AM
Old school manual card machines, are they still an option?They weren't when i retired 3 years ago after 22 years in a service station in the mid north of SA Had signs made up to put on every pump & still got people who didn't read them so used to make them come in to explain before we started the pump. could still do amex diners & fuel cards manually.
Also in emergency situations the police could shut us down to save fuel for emergency vehicles, Fire Police Ambulance Hospital staff etc
Post by: Bird on January 22, 2020, 08:56:56 AM
Hear that all the time but how?
Rail can only get so big. Your destination has to be close to the station.
Trams not much better.
Buses take a along time.
My trip to work is 25 min, as I go in a circle around Melbourne.
Train would be walk to the station 10 min. Train to Clifton Hill 35 min. Swap trains, 10 minutes and back out on the Mernda line. 35 min. Walk to work. 10.10 min. Over 1 1/2 hours all going well.
Bus is over 1 hour, plus walking time.
Public transport can't tow my camper.
Cant load a week's shopping onto public transport.
Tradies can't carry tools
Everytime I hear public transport should be improved it sounds like we want other people to use public transport to leave the roads clear for me.
You are right with PT doesnt go everywhere - but it could be pretty good if it was reliable, safe and clean.. But other countries have safe PT that runs faultless as they have seriously invested year in year out over the last 50 years. Spotless clean safe trains run every 3-4 mins etc...
We havent spent Shit, and its now a multi billion $ problem in every city in AU.
None of our cities were ever planned, they were just "Added to" - most upgrades to freeways seem to come out at the same black spot where everyone crawls.
Roads in AU cities are at gridlock - look at the monash, or eastern, or any in Shitney... or Brissy...
FWIW,
from Franga to Box hill by bus for me would be 2hr 30min, or train into town hour, then train back out hour.. so it wont work for me.. but as you say less on the road, better for me :D
Post by: gronk on January 22, 2020, 05:49:05 PM
Roads in AU cities are at gridlock - look at the monash, or eastern, or any in Shitney... or Brissy...
After venturing into Sydney last Saturday ( a rare event ), I was almost going to post up how sorry I felt for city dwellers !!
Ha ha....nah, you all deserve it for living in a sh*t fight...... ;D ;D
Post by: rockrat on January 22, 2020, 06:26:35 PM
After venturing into Sydney last Saturday ( a rare event ), I was almost going to post up how sorry I felt for city dwellers !!Different strokes for different folks. I live less than 5km from the middle of Brisbane city and love it.
Ha ha....nah, you all deserve it for living in a sh*t fight...... ;D ;D
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: gronk on January 22, 2020, 07:23:54 PM
Different strokes for different folks. I live less than 5km from the middle of Brisbane city and love it.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yep, I don't get why people like living in a city.....that's probably why I don't !! ;D
Post by: edz on January 25, 2020, 11:42:19 PM
Post by: bmwfreak on January 26, 2020, 07:16:22 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200126/066b1e64f36e1853a95e3d6c6c43c15b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200126/51bea67bd545a9331de735b7e2c0a9fe.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: tombie on January 26, 2020, 09:38:34 PM
0-100km/h in 4.4 seconds and 2.4l/100km.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Post by: gronk on January 27, 2020, 05:35:14 PM
Very nice. $320k worth of hybrid there...
0-100km/h in 4.4 seconds and 2.4l/100km.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Saw a few over in Europe last year.....but for 320K, I'd prefer a screaming V8 sound escaping from the exhaust pipe thanks !! ;D ;D
Post by: PWE on January 27, 2020, 10:41:43 PM
Very nice. $320k worth of hybrid there...
0-100km/h in 4.4 seconds and 2.4l/100km.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Tesla Model 3 Performance
0-100km/hr in 3.2 seconds and 0l/100km
Cost $100k ish
Single charge 518km
About $30 to fully charge at a Super charger
And yes, the g-force is assume!
Post by: Bird on January 28, 2020, 06:48:54 AM
Saw this today at Eat Street, Brisbane (sorry if it has already been posted)one crusing the eastlink lots lately with a 'look at me' attitude holding everyone up in the right lane.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200126/066b1e64f36e1853a95e3d6c6c43c15b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200126/51bea67bd545a9331de735b7e2c0a9fe.jpg)
Post by: Fizzie on January 28, 2020, 08:50:34 AM
one crusing the eastlink lots lately with a 'look at me' attitude holding everyone up in the right lane.
In a Beemer ???
No! :o >:D
Post by: Bird on January 28, 2020, 09:12:58 AM
In a Beemer ???(https://i.imgur.com/BWRDoTb.jpg)
No! :o >:D
Post by: edz on February 05, 2020, 10:55:27 AM
Post by: edz on February 11, 2020, 11:46:21 AM
Post by: edz on February 15, 2020, 09:38:14 AM
So thinking out loud .. Being on a boat, it would be easy to augment the battery power with solar, mount a couple of ducted VAWT style wind turbines .. saltwater / chemical dc power generator and even a towed hydro DC generator .... Unless you had a major electrical fault you potentialy should never run out of power .
You could never carry enough fuel to give that sort of range if needed short of wind or Nuclear power .
Post by: Fizzie on February 16, 2020, 07:42:33 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9lGhwyVF6U&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9lGhwyVF6U&feature=youtu.be)
50nm at ~20kn isn't too bad :D
Can't say the same about €245000 though :o :'(
Post by: edz on March 11, 2020, 09:01:14 AM
Post by: Spada on March 11, 2020, 11:34:37 AM
https://insideevs.com/news/403281/tesla-model-3-lamborghini-sounds/?fbclid=IwAR0tU2WsL8xPT5Unkao_hcQw965pQIXV9behh6RyPcy23OkSoEx6OGQjtW0 (https://insideevs.com/news/403281/tesla-model-3-lamborghini-sounds/?fbclid=IwAR0tU2WsL8xPT5Unkao_hcQw965pQIXV9behh6RyPcy23OkSoEx6OGQjtW0) It had to happen ;D ;D
Cool, wonder if I could fit it to my golf buggy >:D
Post by: edz on March 11, 2020, 12:20:17 PM
Post by: Fizzie on March 11, 2020, 02:10:19 PM
https://electrek.co/2019/11/30/tesla-model-s-1-million-km/ (https://electrek.co/2019/11/30/tesla-model-s-1-million-km/)
"The most recent battery pack is going on almost half a million kilometers (310,000 miles) with very little battery degradation.
Tesla also finally figure out the problem that would cause issues to the drive unit in early Model S vehicles and now, Gemmingen’s latest drive unit has over 680,000 km on it."
"He (Musk) also added that Tesla is working on a new battery that lasts 1 million miles and it could come out as soon as next year."
Now that sounds like what we all need in our vans / CTs ;D
Post by: Bigfish on March 19, 2020, 07:49:29 AM
https://newatlas.com/automotive/case-electric-backhoe-loader-project-zeus/?fbclid=IwAR2AUidtRqCimShXr83msNdSYUDAhYymG5qYaEqBCKLN-IgwyzqsYNBQQ4o
Post by: prodigyrf on April 06, 2020, 03:30:43 PM
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/hyundai/kona/electric-launch-edition-badge/
Or are you fans all hanging out for the Tesla truck?
Post by: Pete79 on April 23, 2020, 09:24:52 PM
Sounds like fun. ;D
https://www.motor1.com/news/414244/ford-mustang-cobra-jet-1400/ (https://www.motor1.com/news/414244/ford-mustang-cobra-jet-1400/)
Post by: Bird on May 08, 2020, 10:08:54 AM
According to the court documents, he was struck by a Tesla Model X, when the car’s driver engaged the autonomous driving system and fell asleep. The Model X had been allegedly following another car, which changed lanes to avoid the earlier crash scene. According to the Daily Mail the court documents state:
The Tesla Model X’s sensors and forward-facing cameras did not recognize the parked motorcycles, pedestrians, and van that were directly in its path, and it continued accelerating forward until striking the motorcycles and Mr. Umeda, thereby crushing and killing Mr. Umeda as the Tesla Model X ran over his body
https://advrider.com/tesla-sued-after-motorcyclists-death/ (https://advrider.com/tesla-sued-after-motorcyclists-death/)
Post by: noel_w on May 08, 2020, 11:58:30 AM
Took one for a spin the other day. So weird not having motor noise but was oh so smooth.
Put the foot down and they do move quite well, surprising actually but you can see the battery guage have a hernia trying to keep up with the charge going out of the batteries.
I did a round trip of 80K's and the guage matched that with it's remaining charge.
Fully charged the range showed 400K's which as a fleet car around Brisvegas is not too bad. But here is the kicker, plugged into a normal GPO it takes 22 hours to refill.
We have put in a purchase request for a fast charge station on campus which has been approved at $30K but funnily enough has been post poned until next FY.
Yes/No? Might be good for a city fleet car but wouldn't touch it for a trip past the city outskirts.
Post by: gronk on May 08, 2020, 02:36:57 PM
it takes 22 hours to refill.
We have put in a purchase request for a fast charge station on campus which has been approved at $30K but funnily enough has been post poned until next FY.
So, for the average punter, who just wants one to run to work and back, and their work didn't have a fast charger, and obviously an average bloke couldn't afford a 30K charger for home, so the car is only good for use every 2nd day ??
Post by: Mace on May 08, 2020, 03:11:41 PM
So, for the average punter, who just wants one to run to work and back, and their work didn't have a fast charger, and obviously an average bloke couldn't afford a 30K charger for home, so the car is only good for use every 2nd day ??
No.... You dont need to spend $30k on a charging device.
There are three types of charger for EV's.
Trickle Charge units from standard power points ( between 2 to 3 kw per hour.) These come with the vehicle. Yes, the 40 plus kwh battery in the Kona would take 15 to 20 hours to charge, but these are really only for emergency use.
Residential or Workplace Chargers you wire into your building for personal use ( between 7 and 8 kw per hour) that cost between $1000 and $1500. The kona would charge in about 5 to 6 hours. These are the usual way to go for home charged EV's.
Dedicated Fast charge units found in specialist charging areas, or workplaces. (40 plus kw per hour charge rate). Not really for home use, due to the $30k cost. The kona would charge in an hour. Usually used whilst travelling via credit card.
Having just purchased a newish Hundai Tuscon for SHMBO, I was dissappointed that the kona has not yet been approved for VTG use (Vehicle to Grid). Had they been so certified we would have purchased one.
Having one attached to our home Solar system would have allowed the 40kw battery in the kona to power the house overnight.
:cheers:
Post by: gronk on May 08, 2020, 04:04:05 PM
Having one attached to our home Solar system would have allowed the 40kw battery in the kona to power the house overnight.
:cheers:
And how do you drive to work in the morning with a depleted battery in the car ?
Post by: tryagain on May 08, 2020, 04:41:25 PM
And how do you drive to work in the morning with a depleted battery in the car ?
Short trip to work where you then recharge, with their power, to then again use it to run your house at night time. ;D
Post by: gronk on May 08, 2020, 07:53:35 PM
Short trip to work where you then recharge, with their power, to then again use it to run your house at night time. ;DIn an ideal world where you live very close to work and your work has a charger ! But how does the work place power the charger ? Ha ha, with "dirty" electricity !!
And a work place that is happy for you to use their power....but if you had to pay for their power, it defeats the purpose !!
Maybe an ideal world would be if you had enough solar, and a decent size battery bank, and your batteries charged the batteries in the car overnight ?? Again, very inefficient...so many losses in the system, mainly your back pocket paying for the system.
Post by: Mace on May 09, 2020, 10:59:33 AM
And how do you drive to work in the morning with a depleted battery in the car ?
The house will use about 4kw of the 40 plus available overnight. Kona will still have a 400km range....
Post by: Mace on May 09, 2020, 11:02:39 AM
In an ideal world where you live very close to work and your work has a charger ! But how does the work place power the charger ? Ha ha, with "dirty" electricity !!
No, with offset green energy. Our workplace has installed over 150kw of solar panels on its buildings. We are nearly carbon neutral on our main campus....
Post by: Bird on June 02, 2020, 09:24:02 AM
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-drives-straight-into-overturned-truck-in-1843827507 (https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-drives-straight-into-overturned-truck-in-1843827507)
Post by: Pottsy on June 02, 2020, 09:46:39 AM
BRING ON THE FUTURE!!!!I wonder if the Tesla computer when questioned replied, sorry I no speak English!
https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-drives-straight-into-overturned-truck-in-1843827507 (https://jalopnik.com/tesla-model-3-drives-straight-into-overturned-truck-in-1843827507)
Post by: edz on June 02, 2020, 11:14:51 PM
Post by: Bigfish on June 10, 2020, 08:29:20 AM
https://newatlas.com/motorcycles/emula-electric-motorcycle/?fbclid=IwAR0SXx_vp5P3AGdiuBXdMPyZTEYDd2SFS5Y6hm5yHrTF6hRcvGhEJb9lAOk (https://newatlas.com/motorcycles/emula-electric-motorcycle/?fbclid=IwAR0SXx_vp5P3AGdiuBXdMPyZTEYDd2SFS5Y6hm5yHrTF6hRcvGhEJb9lAOk)
Sounds great...
Post by: Fizzie on June 22, 2020, 11:43:39 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-21/flying-cars-coming-to-coober-pedy/12367674 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-21/flying-cars-coming-to-coober-pedy/12367674)
Post by: edz on June 22, 2020, 12:58:59 PM
This might be the answer for all those who want a motorcycle to sound like a motorcycle....
https://newatlas.com/motorcycles/emula-electric-motorcycle/?fbclid=IwAR0SXx_vp5P3AGdiuBXdMPyZTEYDd2SFS5Y6hm5yHrTF6hRcvGhEJb9lAOk (https://newatlas.com/motorcycles/emula-electric-motorcycle/?fbclid=IwAR0SXx_vp5P3AGdiuBXdMPyZTEYDd2SFS5Y6hm5yHrTF6hRcvGhEJb9lAOk)
Sounds great...
For all that extra cost / weight and not quite right fake crap ... Id rather have the cheaper real deal thanks .. Could you imagine sitting there at the lights with the thing blurting out a glitched digital sound track of the engine at 15000 rpm changing up and down gears evey few split seconds and No ones moving ..
Post by: gronk on June 22, 2020, 02:44:06 PM
For all that extra cost / weight and not quite right fake crap ... Id rather have the cheaper real deal thanks .. Could you imagine sitting there at the lights with the thing blurting out a glitched digital sound track of the engine at 15000 rpm changing up and down gears evey few split seconds and No ones moving ..
BUT, you could have a V8 sounding bike...just to confuse the hell out of everyone !!
Really, you could have any soundtrack you liked.....a more appropriate one for an elect bike would be the Sound of Music......or 101 favorite Lullabies...!! ;D
Post by: edz on June 22, 2020, 10:57:57 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWaNMuidXAA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWaNMuidXAA) .... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me8K4tQ7Dtw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me8K4tQ7Dtw)
Post by: Fizzie on July 06, 2020, 09:39:20 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-06/tesla-electric-cars-boost-raise-ethical-mining-questions/12424092 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-06/tesla-electric-cars-boost-raise-ethical-mining-questions/12424092)
Bit of it is about mining for various components but the interesting bit is
"Tesla became the world's most valuable carmaker last week, overtaking Toyota, despite never having made an annual profit."
"Tesla sold 11,095 Shanghai-made Model 3 vehicles in China in May, more than triple the number sold in April,"
Post by: edz on July 06, 2020, 11:56:00 AM
to few grubby jungle urchins .
Spruke what a good boy am I, for an hour or two, then whip them off to Disney world for some more photo's, Before dropping them back into the Congo Shithole they came from .. Minus the macca's coupons and told to work triple shifts to make up for their time off . ;D ;D
Post by: Fizzie on September 23, 2020, 03:42:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyRJH8dVAhg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyRJH8dVAhg)
;D
Post by: GeoffA on September 23, 2020, 04:34:16 PM
Here ya go!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyRJH8dVAhg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyRJH8dVAhg)
;D
Coal v petrol....
Post by: edz on September 23, 2020, 08:00:00 PM
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 24, 2020, 09:37:09 AM
Riding about 20,000k from Agentina to LA on 2 Harley Davidson Live Wire electric bikes and 2 Rivan electric utes in support
Now i know they have some petrol vehicles and and a charging genset as support for when really stuck but it shows when pushed what these electric vehicles can actually do, especially the bikes considering the average punter would take it out for a 3 hour ride then put it back in the shed to charge
Post by: westvic on September 25, 2020, 07:29:35 AM
"We can probably stop with the quarter mile time obsession now. It’s just gone too far. Nobody needs a car that can do 0-97 km/h in under 2 seconds. It’s absurd that anyone with $US150,000 ($211,245) can just place an order for this level of rolling vehicular manslaughter from the factory. If you want to run faster than 12s, you should have to build it yourself."
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/09/the-tesla-model-s-plaid-will-start-at-197000-and-run-a-sub-9-second-quarter-mile/ (https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/09/the-tesla-model-s-plaid-will-start-at-197000-and-run-a-sub-9-second-quarter-mile/)
Post by: austastar on September 25, 2020, 08:30:38 AM
It is called ludicrous mode for a reason I guess.
Cheers
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Post by: Fizzie on October 06, 2020, 09:59:11 AM
The headline actually asked "How well do electric cars really work in the bush?" but I really wouldn't call Sydney - Wagga Wagga "bush" ::)
So it appears things are getting there, although they still have a way to go though.
Having said that though, as the bloke in the article said, "Until they can get prices down to the same as a Mazda 2, it's never going to happen"!
Post by: prodigyrf on October 11, 2020, 11:52:47 PM
No battery towhorse/workhorse within cooee of a new showroom yet but here's Hyundai's interesting take on the matter-
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/the-new-petrol-vs-diesel-why-hyundai-says-hydrogen-fuel-cell-trucks-81018
Bearing in mind the Koreans are banging out EVs now if one takes your fancy-
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2020-hyundai-kona-electric-highlander-auto-my20/SHRM-AD-6091442/?Cr=0
Yeah I know not enough cupholders for me either but maybe with the next update? :'(
Post by: tryagain on October 12, 2020, 12:03:11 AM
Probably be ready before jeepers drag car, and likely faster too ;D
"We can probably stop with the quarter mile time obsession now. It’s just gone too far. Nobody needs a car that can do 0-97 km/h in under 2 seconds. It’s absurd that anyone with $US150,000 ($211,245) can just place an order for this level of rolling vehicular manslaughter from the factory. If you want to run faster than 12s, you should have to build it yourself."
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/09/the-tesla-model-s-plaid-will-start-at-197000-and-run-a-sub-9-second-quarter-mile/ (https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2020/09/the-tesla-model-s-plaid-will-start-at-197000-and-run-a-sub-9-second-quarter-mile/)
Post by: Bird on October 12, 2020, 09:27:48 AM
Quote from: westvic
"We can probably stop with the quarter mile time obsession now. It’s just gone too far. Nobody needs a car that can do 0-97 km/h in under 2 seconds. It’s absurd that anyone with $US150,000 ($211,245) can just place an order for this level of rolling vehicular manslaughter from the factory. If you want to run faster than 12s, you should have to build it yourself."
I'm not sure the difference in building it yourself to do 2 seconds and buying it to do 2 seconds.... ???
Post by: DandyD on October 13, 2020, 05:21:15 AM
You could just feel the range anxiety.
Post by: Pete79 on October 13, 2020, 05:37:40 AM
I passed a Tesla slipstreaming a mobile crane in the slow lane on the motorway today.I passed a Tesla dawdling along in the fast lane, not overtaking anybody yesterday.
You could just feel the range anxiety.
You could feel the rage as I had to pass them in the left lane. ;)
Post by: edz on October 13, 2020, 06:35:58 AM
I passed a Tesla slipstreaming a mobile crane in the slow lane on the motorway today.
You could just feel the range anxiety.
England !! Range anxiety !! ;D ;D ;D :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: Sneeze and you'd have gone from one side to the other . ;D ;D
Post by: DandyD on October 13, 2020, 09:08:04 AM
England !! Range anxiety !! ;D ;D ;D :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: Sneeze and you'd have gone from one side to the other . ;D ;D
England?
I was in Wales! They don't have electricity. ;D
Post by: edz on October 13, 2020, 09:47:42 AM
Post by: Fizzie on October 13, 2020, 12:53:18 PM
They don't have electricity. ;D
Or as I saw it put the other day:
What did the Russian people use for lighting before candles ?
Electricity! ;D
Post by: alnjan on October 21, 2020, 12:15:05 PM
and for those on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/JerryRigEverything/videos/1044082832683552/ (https://www.facebook.com/JerryRigEverything/videos/1044082832683552/)
Post by: edz on October 21, 2020, 12:57:22 PM
EV's need something that makes noise on them to let you know they are coming up on you from behind ..Walking through the carpark at work , wind other cars etc and a bloody taxi drove up from behind and passes within inches of me .. Didnt know it was there till the moment it started to pass me ..
Same has happened in the shopping center car park a couple of times, luckily I caught a movement in the reflction of a cars paint work , other wise with all the normal noise we wouldnt have known they were there each time .
Post by: MadMarv on October 21, 2020, 01:30:31 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on October 21, 2020, 10:42:09 PM
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/mercedes-benz-takes-on-toyota-land-cruiser-with-wild-eqc-4x4%C2%B2-suv-to-crush-doubts-about
Well that and the extra $26k in stamp duty and luxury car tax and you're ready to roll sparkies and plumbers etc.
Post by: #jonesy on October 22, 2020, 04:23:22 AM
Not sure how a dinghy = remote.
And how far is remote without electricity? The on road version has 434 km range
If you are.going to write an article, then be realistic. I wouldn't even compare it to a LandCruiser, just on size alone. (Although that quote was from Mercedes)
Post by: DandyD on October 22, 2020, 04:38:41 AM
https://bollingermotors.com/
Post by: plusnq on October 22, 2020, 05:32:18 AM
https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/20/21525290/hummer-ev-electric-truck-gmc-price-specs-range
Post by: Fizzie on October 22, 2020, 07:52:03 AM
EV's need something that makes noise on them to let you know they are coming up on you from behind ..
Had the same thing happen last week ...
Went for a walk round the block, heard a funny rattle of some sort, looked back & the postie on his new trike was about 3m's behind me!
Yeah, it's only a postie trike but still scared the $%^& out of me :-[
Post by: edz on November 22, 2020, 09:40:52 PM
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olpYrqazwbY) We got the Taycan Turbo "loaner" on Friday evening, and it is probably a great car. I don't know that yet as charging it is a pain in the behind. The "charger" that comes with it requires a PIN and a PUK (for a charger?) and its manual is as thick as a brick. The 380 Volt cable that came with it does fit into the power plug in my workshop, which has no problems running all my heavy machines (band saw, lathe, mill, ...). But as soon as I connect the Porsche, the RCD pops.
There is a charging station just 500 meters from our house, which was a surprise here in the deep countryside... but of course the connectors don't fit.
There isn't enough juice to reach the next "Hyper Charger", so the normal household power plug (230 V) is the only option. It takes like two days to fill the battery. Connected it yesterday at noon, so this hopefully will give us enough power for ONE short little trip today, before we have to bring the thing back.
This was a horrible experience. I think that eMobility still has a looong way to go. They let the engineers go wild. "A charger that is app controlled and has WiFi connection? How cool is THAT?"
Not cool. I want a car that is easy to fill, not pure frustration and disappointment.
Post by: DandyD on November 23, 2020, 11:34:39 AM
https://youtu.be/cGcIFgAzJR8 (https://youtu.be/cGcIFgAzJR8)
(https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/porsche-taycan-hilariously-fails-to-park-two-other-cars-were-in-the-wrong-place-151806-7.jpg)
Post by: edz on December 23, 2020, 11:56:22 PM
Post by: Fizzie on January 10, 2021, 10:30:17 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IyecB6svSo&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IyecB6svSo&feature=youtu.be)
& if you want a chuckle, jump to 12:38 ;D >:D
Post by: briann532 on January 11, 2021, 08:04:07 PM
I can't remember if anybody has mentioned the Bollinger in this thread...
https://bollingermotors.com/
Ummmmm............Fugly!!! ??? ??? ???
Yeah..........Nah thanks but Nah....
Post by: lloydus67 on January 13, 2021, 04:35:05 AM
Is that a yank thing to make the wheel track wider at the rear. Seems like a waste of energy to have to create 4 separate wheel ruts
Sent from me
Post by: #jonesy on January 13, 2021, 06:29:58 AM
The square box of the cabin looks strong and safe, but there rest is also looking the same and would have very give in impact.to act as a crumple zone.
From the FAQ
Will the trucks have airbags?
No. We meet Class 3 Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards through use of seat belts. In addition, we are using simulation software to engineer our trucks to our own Due Care standards that far exceed Class 3 requirements.?
Seatbelts as a major safety innovation? Is it the 1970's?
Post by: Fizzie on January 13, 2021, 07:18:03 AM
Post by: #jonesy on January 13, 2021, 11:16:34 AM
Even scarier is some of the Motorcycle helmet laws. Some have no helmets bit you must wear glasses/ goggles. Also no consistency in what standard the helmet must meet
???
Post by: DandyD on January 13, 2021, 11:24:09 AM
Safety is my biggest concern with that design
I must admit that it didn't occur to me.
I drive a Series 1 Land Rover so I have low standards.
Post by: bmwfreak on January 13, 2021, 06:06:11 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210112/417442126c1d40e9fbb8132d3ffa8b4c.jpg)
Is that a yank thing to make the wheel track wider at the rear. Seems like a waste of energy to have to create 4 separate wheel ruts
Sent from me
70 Series Toyota’s with the V8 have the same configuration in reverse, ie the front is wider than the rear track.
Post by: lloydus67 on January 13, 2021, 07:59:57 PM
I understand it was because Toyota didn’t want to completely redesign the 79 series when they were going to replace the model in a few years anyway, it was supposed to be just a stop gap vehicle
Sent from me
Post by: Bird on January 18, 2021, 02:04:48 PM
https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/24/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-chargepoint-electrify-america/ (https://www.autoblog.com/2020/12/24/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-chargepoint-electrify-america/)
Post by: edz on April 20, 2021, 03:24:23 PM
Post by: plusnq on April 20, 2021, 05:26:00 PM
Ahhh that would be a fail https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/lordstown-motors-endurance-all-electric-pickup-fails-endure-baja-race?fbclid=IwAR0oRW89FrvCg-AoMLIONMQLyvpF3Dt729ii6gH5mgJVpSc3hXtZqd0-KNM (https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/lordstown-motors-endurance-all-electric-pickup-fails-endure-baja-race?fbclid=IwAR0oRW89FrvCg-AoMLIONMQLyvpF3Dt729ii6gH5mgJVpSc3hXtZqd0-KNM)
Endurance 😂😂 what an epic fail
Post by: DandyD on April 20, 2021, 06:07:38 PM
Post by: Fizzie on April 21, 2021, 07:17:39 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-04-20/australians-want-to-buy-electric-cars-what-is-stopping-us/100071550 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-04-20/australians-want-to-buy-electric-cars-what-is-stopping-us/100071550)
Post by: gronk on April 21, 2021, 08:21:53 AM
On that subject, was reading this yesterday
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-04-20/australians-want-to-buy-electric-cars-what-is-stopping-us/100071550 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-04-20/australians-want-to-buy-electric-cars-what-is-stopping-us/100071550)
As usual, an article can imply a lot of things, but Aussies generally don’t want electric cars.
Same as USA, the greenies who live in cities are interested, and the ones who can afford one will buy, but for the rural people, they can’t see the benefit.
For aussies who want to buy one, there are cars available, but they aren’t selling.
Post by: Fizzie on April 21, 2021, 09:29:49 AM
Post by: Bird on April 21, 2021, 10:45:00 AM
Quote from: gronk
As usual, an article can imply a lot of things, but Aussies generally don’t want electric cars.cant wait for racing to sound like this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elIgaqzgpqA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elIgaqzgpqA) how exciting.. personally much rather https://youtu.be/1DHRyuwFU0Y?t=23 (https://youtu.be/1DHRyuwFU0Y?t=23)
what will the V8 taxi people do once its all Scalextric set Shit
Post by: DandyD on April 21, 2021, 06:25:17 PM
cant wait for racing to sound like this...
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?)
Have you watched any Formula E? It's not quite the same.
Formula 1 vs Formula E Monza 2019
https://youtu.be/8sXzWq1du9U (https://youtu.be/8sXzWq1du9U)
Post by: Hairs on April 21, 2021, 06:36:13 PM
At our last RFS Brigade meeting it was briefly spoken about, because we(Brigrade) attend many MVA's, that the batteries of these cars cause another world of hurt for the passengers and the response teams that attend in the event of an accident.
Not only the contents of the batteries, but the Energy/Electricy that can cause injury.
Training to deal with this is starting to happen.
Post by: Bird on April 21, 2021, 08:27:25 PM
Quote from: DandyD
Have you watched any Formula E? It's not quite the same.
for about 6 seconds burst out laughing and turned it over
Post by: gronk on April 21, 2021, 08:44:25 PM
for about 6 seconds burst out laughing and turned it over
I got to 5 seconds !! ;D
Post by: alnjan on April 21, 2021, 09:23:46 PM
I haven't read all 400+ comments, sorry if this has been mentioned.
At our last RFS Brigade meeting it was briefly spoken about, because we(Brigrade) attend many MVA's, that the batteries of these cars cause another world of hurt for the passengers and the response teams that attend in the event of an accident.
Not only the contents of the batteries, but the Energy/Electricy that can cause injury.
Training to deal with this is starting to happen.
Not to mention the difficulty of extinguishing a battery fire
Post by: Hairs on April 21, 2021, 09:29:09 PM
Not to mention the difficulty of extinguishing a battery fireYep, A whole new devil to deal with.
Post by: Bird on April 27, 2021, 10:56:15 AM
Formula E race descends into farce as half the field runs out of charge
https://www.drive.com.au/news/formula-e-race-descends-into-farce-as-half-the-field-runs-out-of-charge/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/formula-e-race-descends-into-farce-as-half-the-field-runs-out-of-charge/)
Post by: edz on April 27, 2021, 11:57:58 AM
Post by: Bird on April 27, 2021, 12:12:41 PM
Imagine being half way across the Simpson desert in a you beaut Lectric truck .LOL... with an angry missus yelling at you, kids screaming they need maccas and a piss... LMAO
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/d6/d64d9f2ccd32a6011f998506f334445a705e89e8e025933afceb25e030c03141.jpg)
Post by: manchu on April 27, 2021, 01:19:13 PM
hahahahahahahahahhah!!!!!!!!!!!GOLD!!!!!!!!!!
Formula E race descends into farce as half the field runs out of charge
Having not watched much Formula E before I couldn't understand how safety cars could impact the race like that because they have the opposite effect in F1. Then I read this line:
"Under Formula E regulations, the amount of energy a driver may use is reduced when a Safety Car intervention is needed"
someone really didn't think that rule through.
Post by: Fizzie on April 28, 2021, 07:22:27 AM
Having not watched much Formula E before I couldn't understand how safety cars could impact the race like that because they have the opposite effect in F1. Then I read this line:
"Under Formula E regulations, the amount of energy a driver may use is reduced when a Safety Car intervention is needed"
someone really didn't think that rule through.
I've never looked at Formula E before reading that article, & I'm still trying to get my head around it ???
So if I'm reading it right ???, translating it into Supercar racing terms (is it still called that this week ???), if a Safety Car comes out, the drivers have to open a tap & drain fuel out of their tank, so that, when the Safety Car goes off again, they've got less fuel left to finish the race ???
Sorry, but that doesn't make any sort of sense ???
Post by: Bird on April 28, 2021, 04:34:18 PM
https://www.drive.com.au/news/e-motorsports-set-to-feature-in-the-olympic-games/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/e-motorsports-set-to-feature-in-the-olympic-games/)
Post by: manchu on April 28, 2021, 05:04:21 PM
I thought the Olympics lost their way 20+ yrs ago...
https://www.drive.com.au/news/e-motorsports-set-to-feature-in-the-olympic-games/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/e-motorsports-set-to-feature-in-the-olympic-games/)
All downhill after 'Sydeney'
I'm not sure what I find more absurd, the virtual versions of non-Olympic sports (motorsport and baseball), or the virtual versions of actual Olympics sports (cycling, rowing and sailing).
Post by: edz on May 24, 2021, 11:20:21 PM
Post by: Spada on May 25, 2021, 06:31:28 AM
Average consumption over the trip was 3.7l/100k and the car felt significantly zippier than the standard petrol version of the same car. It was a bit weird at first driving along at 100kph with the tacho on zero, and the petrol engine would only come to life on a hill or when you gave it a gutful to accelerate. It wasn't perceptible when the petrol engine would kick in or shut down either, if you didn't notice it on the tacho you wouldn't realise most of the time.
I have to admit I was genuinely surprized at how much better the hybrid was to the same car in standard petrol engine.
Post by: NZMarkb on May 25, 2021, 07:03:36 AM
I have to admit that I've been sceptical of electric, but I took a work hybrid Corolla on a 200k round trip the other day.... and I was impressed.
Yeah Hybrid's are fine but full electric cars are a joke
We have one in our office as a pool car, it won't make it to most sites and back without it's petrol engine starting up
Don't even get me started on where the power to charge them comes from >:D
I call the Pool car the Coal Burner
Post by: Bird on May 25, 2021, 10:10:08 AM
All downhill after 'Sydeney'it was down hill 20yrs before Shitney!
Post by: Mace on May 25, 2021, 11:38:41 AM
We have one in our office as a pool car, it won't make it to most sites and back without it's petrol engine starting up"
Its not a full electric then, its a PHEV....
Maybe one day your employer will install roof top solar and be able to charge it up onsite? Whatever, its doing its bit to reduce fuel use.
:cheers:
Post by: Pottsy on May 25, 2021, 11:45:21 AM
"Yeah Hybrid's are fine but full electric cars are a joke
We have one in our office as a pool car, it won't make it to most sites and back without it's petrol engine starting up"
Its not a full electric then, its a PHEV....
Maybe one day your employer will install roof top solar and be able to charge it up onsite? Whatever, its doing its bit to reduce fuel use.
:cheers:
Just stayed in Padthaway SA, town of 400 people in the wine growing region of the southeast on a tourist route to the Coonawarra and Limestone Coast, caravan park has two Tesla chargers, 10 days and not one person used them, only person to look at them was me as they had been mounted in a couple of wine barrels.
Post by: sparksy on May 25, 2021, 11:58:37 AM
Had a good talk with a EV owner about how his car wasn't contributing to greenhouse gases , he didnt want to believe that his charging came from a source that is mainly fed from natural gas or coal generation.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-18/electric-vehicle-tax-a-disincentive-to-go-green/13258232 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-18/electric-vehicle-tax-a-disincentive-to-go-green/13258232)
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-24/canberrans-get-free-registration-for-electric-vehicles-in-act/100160324 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-24/canberrans-get-free-registration-for-electric-vehicles-in-act/100160324)
Post by: 2Strokeit on May 25, 2021, 12:33:34 PM
Whatever, its doing its bit to reduce fuel use.
:cheers:
As long as you totally ignore the manufacturing / transportation fuel use or environmental crisis/catastrophe our kids will inherit trying to deal with used batteries.
'She'll be right, Greta said just bung em in the landfill next to the wind turbine blades and old solar panel's.'
I'm reminded of those immortal words from the great yellow philosopher 'That's a problem for future Homer... sure hate to be that guy'
Post by: Bird on May 25, 2021, 02:38:06 PM
Tesla could be forced to pay out as much as $160 million to Norwegian Tesla owners after a Norway court ruled a 2019 software update throttled the electric cars’ battery life and slowed the charging speed.
Dozens of Tesla drivers in Norway complained to the courts after they said a 2019 software update slashed the cars’ battery life, decreased the range and lengthened the time the cars took to charge, according to Norwegian newspaper Nettavisen.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/05/24/tesla-found-guilty-of-throttling-battery-life-charging-speed-in-norway/?sh=2f8062d45a2a (https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlieporterfield/2021/05/24/tesla-found-guilty-of-throttling-battery-life-charging-speed-in-norway/?sh=2f8062d45a2a)
Post by: manchu on May 25, 2021, 03:31:33 PM
Tesla Found Guilty Of Throttling Battery Life, Charging Speed In Norway :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
wow, I can't believe ~10,000 model S were sold in Norway between 2013 to 2015. That sounds like a lot.
I feel just a little bad for Tesla in this case. IMO it's unrealistic and unreasonable to expect an elec vehicle NOT to experience battery degradation and some decrease in performance after a number of years.
If Tesla initially sold the car with these new operating parameters I bet very few buyers would have cared. Its not like there was much viable EV completion back then.
A 6yo+ used model S can't be worth much more than ~$30K so awarding owners around half the cars value for small fraction of performance drop seems very excessive.
Post by: Rodt on May 26, 2021, 09:09:32 AM
I have to admit that I've been sceptical of electric, but I took a work hybrid Corolla on a 200k round trip the other day.... and I was impressed.
Average consumption over the trip was 3.7l/100k and the car felt significantly zippier than the standard petrol version of the same car. It was a bit weird at first driving along at 100kph with the tacho on zero, and the petrol engine would only come to life on a hill or when you gave it a gutful to accelerate. It wasn't perceptible when the petrol engine would kick in or shut down either, if you didn't notice it on the tacho you wouldn't realise most of the time.
I have to admit I was genuinely surprized at how much better the hybrid was to the same car in standard petrol engine.
This made me think of a funny situation that happened a few times years ago. In a previous life and about 20 years ago I worked at the Nambour Council and they had 2 hybrids in their fleet of pool vehicles. No one knew much about them in those days so there were a number of people (me included) that thought the bloody things had turned themselves off when parked at traffic lights. We would all restart them and give them a gutfull on the accelerator thinking that they were designed to turn off when at idle. After a few people complained to the fleet manager (he didn't know why either funnily enough) he researched and found out that no they didn't stop and you just had to put your foot on the accelerator.
I remember a few of us had the view at the time that these pieces of crap were just a fad and wouldn't last long. Shows how intuitive and forward thinking we were ;D
Post by: prodigyrf on July 05, 2021, 11:44:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GWKBbEMCC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fsoVzmrghs
Coupled with their well developed bulletproof hybrid synergy drive of course. Brilliant engineering but it's no KISS principle stuff and how that will last long term with the average punter that doesn't know what a bonnet catch is for I can guess. I'd only own one under warranty.
Post by: Bird on August 30, 2021, 11:02:44 AM
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1132920_ford-patents-charging-electric-cars-by-towing-them (https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1132920_ford-patents-charging-electric-cars-by-towing-them)
Post by: Pottsy on August 30, 2021, 11:30:30 AM
They running out of ideas LMAO
https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1132920_ford-patents-charging-electric-cars-by-towing-them (https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1132920_ford-patents-charging-electric-cars-by-towing-them)
Rivian utes can be charged by towing as well, saw it on the doco with Ewan Macgregor and Charlie when they rode electric bikes through South America to Harley Davidsons factory in the US.
Post by: westvic on September 14, 2021, 02:26:46 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-09-14/batteries-lithium-sulfur-sugar-future-electric-vehicles/100457492 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-09-14/batteries-lithium-sulfur-sugar-future-electric-vehicles/100457492)
Post by: Bird on September 16, 2021, 06:01:24 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/legal-action-victoria-electric-vehicle-tax-high-court/100466904 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/legal-action-victoria-electric-vehicle-tax-high-court/100466904)
Post by: bmwfreak on September 17, 2021, 07:39:40 AM
Post by: Fizzie on September 18, 2021, 09:50:32 AM
https://www.swincar.net/ (https://www.swincar.net/)
~ €12000 / US$17000 so guess ~$20000 AU (if they ever make it out here? :'()
Mentions 64 mile range on the flat = 100k.
Looks like amazing fun! ;D
Post by: bmwfreak on September 18, 2021, 12:58:36 PM
Post by: Bird on September 18, 2021, 02:53:54 PM
Unlikely to be exported from France to the backstabbing Aussies ;Dunlikely to be 20k with Aussie tax either LMAO
Post by: alnjan on September 19, 2021, 02:25:45 PM
https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/dutch-college-students-just-built-the-worlds-first-solar-powered-camper-and-theyre-taking-it-on-the-road-1234636504/?fbclid=IwAR2p9zDYJU-CWxzW5QCuKURBqNQHnK3dvnhiBQIcDKl8TPfgWZ8rhw5tmOY (https://robbreport.com/motors/cars/dutch-college-students-just-built-the-worlds-first-solar-powered-camper-and-theyre-taking-it-on-the-road-1234636504/?fbclid=IwAR2p9zDYJU-CWxzW5QCuKURBqNQHnK3dvnhiBQIcDKl8TPfgWZ8rhw5tmOY)
Post by: Fizzie on September 20, 2021, 07:43:26 AM
Will be interesting to see how it goes (although they won't get very far if they keep parking in warehouses, & leaving all their lights on! >:D)
Post by: Fizzie on September 22, 2021, 05:00:24 PM
;D
Post by: edz on September 30, 2021, 03:14:42 PM
Post by: Hairs on September 30, 2021, 04:35:21 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqexebCcUo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqexebCcUo) :DNever heard of them.
Thanks for posting, very interesting.
Post by: Bird on September 30, 2021, 04:55:35 PM
Post by: Hairs on September 30, 2021, 05:25:39 PM
hopefully one day they'll make one that looks decent.. looks like something out of the jetsonsAhahaha, it does hey.
But what hope is there when the new patrol, Landcriuser look the same.
Post by: Rodt on October 01, 2021, 07:38:39 AM
Here's an article on the Electric Ford F150 https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/ford-begins-f-150-lightning-pre-production-adds-450-american-jobs/?utm_source=2021927&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=content (https://www.ford-trucks.com/articles/ford-begins-f-150-lightning-pre-production-adds-450-american-jobs/?utm_source=2021927&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=content)
Lot better looking than the Rivian
Post by: Hairs on October 04, 2021, 04:58:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqexebCcUo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGqexebCcUo) :DThis just popped up.
Hells Gates
https://youtu.be/Yeth5v_5dPM
Post by: bmwfreak on October 04, 2021, 06:10:08 PM
This just popped up.
Hells Gates
https://youtu.be/Yeth5v_5dPM
Try this one
https://youtu.be/Yeth5v_5dPM (https://youtu.be/Yeth5v_5dPM)
Post by: Hairs on October 04, 2021, 06:46:47 PM
Try this oneSame link on tappa. :)
https://youtu.be/Yeth5v_5dPM (https://youtu.be/Yeth5v_5dPM)
Cheers
Post by: bmwfreak on October 04, 2021, 07:02:22 PM
Same link on tappa. :)
Cheers
I know, but this one is clickable :-*
Post by: Hairs on October 04, 2021, 07:08:06 PM
I know, but this one is clickable :-*Sorry, very rarely do I login on a web browser.
Only use a pc these days for codeing on websites back office work I manage.
:(
Post by: lukeycat on October 04, 2021, 07:14:31 PM
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: Hairs on October 04, 2021, 07:23:23 PM
I’m pretty keen on pre ordering a Rivian when they are released here everything I see or read about them makes me want one :) after all the mechanical issues I’ve had with diesels over the last few years the idea of electric motors is very appealing lolA 4wd mechanic I know, is gearing his business to step away from the mechanical component & investing in the diagnosis of software, electric components.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: lukeycat on October 04, 2021, 07:25:58 PM
A 4wd mechanic I know, is gearing his business to step away from the mechanical component & investing in the diagnosis of software, electric components.Not a bad idea hope he has a good internet connection. ;) as most if the diagnosis will be done online I watched a friend do an update on there Tesla model three the other day was a very simple process.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: alnjan on October 04, 2021, 08:15:24 PM
A 4wd mechanic I know, is gearing his business to step away from the mechanical component & investing in the diagnosis of software, electric components.
Know another mechanic and he is gearing up to work solely on running gear. EVs still use some form of gearbox, driveshaft and CVs.
Post by: kizza1 on October 12, 2021, 08:53:19 PM
Post by: westvic on October 13, 2021, 06:46:46 AM
https://fering.co.uk/ (https://fering.co.uk/)
https://www.autodaily.com.au/exclusive-fering-pioneer-hybrid-4x4-shown-for-the-first-time/ (https://www.autodaily.com.au/exclusive-fering-pioneer-hybrid-4x4-shown-for-the-first-time/)
This is the sort of thing I could drive. Maybe not this exact one but the concept is awesome and has some very cool engineering. Hopefully opens the way for similar vehicles to bring the price down.
Post by: Fizzie on October 17, 2021, 01:12:30 PM
https://www.contactairlandandsea.com/2021/10/06/electric-pushies-finding-role-on-battlefield/ (https://www.contactairlandandsea.com/2021/10/06/electric-pushies-finding-role-on-battlefield/)
Post by: Spada on October 18, 2021, 10:44:12 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-10-18/converting-classic-cars-to-electric-vehicles/100533104 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-10-18/converting-classic-cars-to-electric-vehicles/100533104)
Post by: edz on October 18, 2021, 11:13:06 AM
Tweed to Brisso and back maybe on a single charge ::).. $40,000 buys a Shit load of Kilometers in Datto 1200 fuel . ;D
Post by: Bird on October 18, 2021, 12:22:48 PM
Cool little Datto .. pity the cost was so high and the range so short ..
Tweed to Brisso and back maybe on a single charge ::).. $40,000 buys a Shit load of Kilometers in Datto 1200 fuel . ;D
even with the SR20DET! :)
http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=SR_engine_swap (http://datsun1200.com/modules/mediawiki/index.php?title=SR_engine_swap)
Post by: edz on October 22, 2021, 11:27:05 PM
Post by: Bird on October 23, 2021, 10:20:34 AM
Quote from: edz
Yikes https://www.facebook.com/are51vendas.br/videos/195773491776043 (https://www.facebook.com/are51vendas.br/videos/195773491776043) Tesla cut in half in a crash .recyclable reusable front end :D :D
Post by: edz on October 27, 2021, 09:00:34 PM
Post by: Steffo1 on October 28, 2021, 08:19:13 AM
Post by: JD-120 on October 28, 2021, 01:47:09 PM
Do EVs have a battery isolator switch or similar, to allow welding?
I dunno the answer to this one steffo, but some other useless info for ya :) I might be worng here, just some info I had during a convo over some beers
I think the likes of Tesla dont support utilising the power from the car for any other reason except powering the car. Some smarties apparently found a way to bypass this but Tesla have advised that will void the warranty etc on the batteries themselves. I heard the reason for this is it could deminish the life and capacity / distance of the batteries etc......ah, there ya go, quick googles
https://electrek.co/2021/02/23/tesla-voids-your-warranty-power-your-home-with-electric-car-battery-pack/
Funily enough however other leccy car vendors do allow and provide provisions for it, like Hyundai perhaps.
Post by: Fizzie on October 29, 2021, 06:54:45 AM
Noticed from that article though, that other things that void your warranty include:
"Driving over uneven, rough, damaged or hazardous surfaces including curbs, potholes, unfinished roads ..."
Well, that stuffs them for use in Oz then! >:D
Post by: Bird on November 08, 2021, 02:58:57 PM
A hi-tech electric car has broken down at the worst possible time trapping motorists for hours inside a shopping centre carpark.
A Tesla has trapped motorists in a shopping centre car park after the vehicle ran out of battery at the worst possible time.
Motorists were stuck at the exit of the five-storey Westfield car park in London after the vehicle ran out of charge while trying to exit the building.
The story went viral on Reddit after a user, called Henry, posted about the lengthy wait time.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/tesla-breaks-down-at-the-worst-possible-time-trapping-10-cars/news-story/0126433c6be1fc51f1433c6c73124f5f (https://www.news.com.au/technology/tesla-breaks-down-at-the-worst-possible-time-trapping-10-cars/news-story/0126433c6be1fc51f1433c6c73124f5f)
Post by: Spada on November 09, 2021, 06:11:42 AM
Motorists were stuck at the exit of the five-storey Westfield car park in London after the vehicle ran out of charge while trying to exit the building.
Am I missing something??? couldn't you just put it in neutral and push it out of the way?
Post by: sparksy on November 09, 2021, 10:49:12 AM
A hi-tech electric car has broken down at the worst possible time trapping motorists for hours inside a shopping centre carpark.
A Tesla has trapped motorists in a shopping centre car park after the vehicle ran out of battery at the worst possible time.
You would think with all the smarts put into a Tesla that they would have a reserve capacity for such a situation.
Post by: DrewXT on November 09, 2021, 10:57:13 AM
You would think with all the smarts put into a Tesla that they would have a reserve capacity for such a situation.
I thought they did, but you have to ring Tesla to get it "unlocked" so you can move it...
Post by: Fizzie on November 09, 2021, 10:59:15 AM
Post by: shanegtr on November 09, 2021, 11:09:24 AM
Post by: Pete79 on November 09, 2021, 11:57:54 AM
Can't wait :DNormal cars do a better job then that.
A hi-tech electric car has broken down at the worst possible time trapping motorists for hours inside a shopping centre carpark.
A Tesla has trapped motorists in a shopping centre car park after the vehicle ran out of battery at the worst possible time.
Motorists were stuck at the exit of the five-storey Westfield car park in London after the vehicle ran out of charge while trying to exit the building.
The story went viral on Reddit after a user, called Henry, posted about the lengthy wait time.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/tesla-breaks-down-at-the-worst-possible-time-trapping-10-cars/news-story/0126433c6be1fc51f1433c6c73124f5f (https://www.news.com.au/technology/tesla-breaks-down-at-the-worst-possible-time-trapping-10-cars/news-story/0126433c6be1fc51f1433c6c73124f5f)
An Audi managed to shut down most of Sydney for pretty much a whole day when it broke down in the harbor tunnel and the vehicle safety features locked all 4 wheels. A normal tow truck couldn’t budge it and it took hours to get a bigger truck in there to drag it out.
That was 9 years ago, so hardly a electric cars thing…..
https://www.drive.com.au/news/audis-electrical-fault-brings-sydney-traffic-to-a-halt-20120214-1t4y7/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/audis-electrical-fault-brings-sydney-traffic-to-a-halt-20120214-1t4y7/)
Post by: Fizzie on November 09, 2021, 01:59:29 PM
But when you've presumably watched a "fuel" gauge tick down from full to empty, while ignoring the (I assume) warnings coming up on to say you only have xxx% / yyy k left, then an emergency reserve would be pretty pointless ???
Asked the question on another forum, where I know a couple of people drive Teslas:
"Yep, I've not tested it myself, but I've seen YouTube video's of it. At a certain percentage (around 5% I think) the car goes into a low power mode, reducing the maximum speed to 50kmph and it turns off most of the environmental controls.
Note that most modern Tesla's have spare battery capacity below the 0% mark which is around 30-50kms."
I'm thinking that this is sounding more like a "Lets make Tesla look bad" exercise, rather than a real happening ???
Post by: Mace on November 09, 2021, 02:07:52 PM
Although plenty of videos of them being re-charged at speed by towing...
Post by: Hairs on November 09, 2021, 06:02:43 PM
Listening to a bloke on radio today explaining how it all works.
I'm more confused then before.
Charging watts, usage(km), time charging.
I just Hope it doesn't become a political Shite storm.
https://youtu.be/LQiOA7euaYA
Post by: Fizzie on November 10, 2021, 09:32:58 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-10/which-cars-going-all-electric-and-when/100529330 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-11-10/which-cars-going-all-electric-and-when/100529330)
Post by: bmwfreak on November 15, 2021, 06:21:36 PM
https://youtu.be/PBcyAUtDTD8 (https://youtu.be/PBcyAUtDTD8)
Post by: edz on November 16, 2021, 09:34:00 AM
Post by: Fizzie on November 22, 2021, 01:34:41 PM
Hmmm ???
Post by: austastar on November 22, 2021, 02:26:02 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-11-22/petrol-stations-can-they-survive-electric-car-uptake/100627312 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-11-22/petrol-stations-can-they-survive-electric-car-uptake/100627312)Hi,
Hmmm ???
I think suburban and city servos will be most affected in the short term as many of their customers will have other options to charge EVs.
Remote roadhouses will need to invest in greater generation and storage as ICE vehicles decline. No doubt they will sell more food and drinks as customers wait while charging.
Cheers
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Post by: spadge on November 22, 2021, 03:15:26 PM
Post by: plusnq on November 22, 2021, 04:49:42 PM
Hi,
I think suburban and city servos will be most affected in the short term as many of their customers will have other options to charge EVs.
Remote roadhouses will need to invest in greater generation and storage as ICE vehicles decline. No doubt they will sell more food and drinks as customers wait while charging.
Cheers
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
I think you are probably right. They will need more facilities for people to wait but there’s not much profit in petrol anyway so the model will just be for extended stays while charging. Business centre, Food, showers , massage etc
Post by: JD-120 on November 23, 2021, 09:22:05 AM
Suburbs will change IMO to having more charging points at places like Maccas, Coffee Clubs, sporting facilities etc.. just another industry about to be disrupted
Post by: Bird on November 23, 2021, 09:37:12 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw598__3y7E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw598__3y7E) :cup: :cup: :cup:
Post by: JD-120 on November 23, 2021, 03:05:02 PM
this is a super long thread, not sure if this has been posted yet. Bit of a laugh for Tuesday arvo ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmCjWZ6URH0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmCjWZ6URH0)
Post by: sparksy on November 28, 2021, 10:52:22 AM
https://edition.thewest.com.au/html5/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=WAN%2F2021%2F11%2F28&entity=Ar05503&sk=F98CC3D4&mode=text (https://edition.thewest.com.au/html5/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=WAN%2F2021%2F11%2F28&entity=Ar05503&sk=F98CC3D4&mode=text)
Post by: l0ckym on November 28, 2021, 11:17:23 AM
Interesting article in todays Sunday Times. explains how a EV actually produces more emissions than a normal combustion engine.
https://edition.thewest.com.au/html5/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=WAN%2F2021%2F11%2F28&entity=Ar05503&sk=F98CC3D4&mode=text (https://edition.thewest.com.au/html5/shared/ShowArticle.aspx?doc=WAN%2F2021%2F11%2F28&entity=Ar05503&sk=F98CC3D4&mode=text)
Yeah, but he's thinking about it in entirely the wrong way.
True - mining yet more rare earth materials to make batteries - is polluting in its own right.
True - with Australia's mix of energy, charging EV's will likely come from Coal/Gas first - although this is rapidly evolving.
The reason he's wrong - is he's treating an EV, like any ordinary ICE vehicle. Fuel up, drive to destination, fuel up, drive to destination.
EV's of the future probably aren't like this, they are charging whenever they are stopped - their batteries become part of the grid itself, and 98% of trips are well within an EV range. You can hire an ICE vehicle if you need to. Which brings me to my next point - why own any of these things - they'll be automated, and on uber like service. The thing will just turn up to your driveway charged, and take you where you need to go, then it'll go off and do the next job, or be charged or be serviced.
Remember the iPhone was only released in 2007 - and for better or worse has disrupted many industries that we could never have guessed at the time (like taxis & uber). EV's will be the same, policy settings will help - but ultimately the market will drive it for cost/efficiency/convenience (if the market is left to be truly free - which is one political persuasion, but they only like free market economics when it does what they want).
Owning a car won't be the same, journeys won't be the same, the methodology won't be the same - so attributing todays behaviours to it, will never look particularly good.
Post by: GeoffA on November 28, 2021, 05:12:26 PM
...... Which brings me to my next point - why own any of these things - they'll be automated, and on uber like service. The thing will just turn up to your driveway charged, and take you where you need to go, then it'll go off and do the next job, or be charged or be serviced...
Yep. Just like taxis. Nothing new.
But with networks being hacked etc, would you want to get into one??
Post by: edz on November 29, 2021, 09:51:58 PM
Post by: Bird on November 30, 2021, 12:40:52 PM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/nissan-revealed-three-wild-electric-car-concepts/news-story/a911629f729fd81cdbc6a3ab7715243a (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/nissan-revealed-three-wild-electric-car-concepts/news-story/a911629f729fd81cdbc6a3ab7715243a)
(https://content.api.news/v3/images/bin/6947db854a416a76df434b3f7e44ff35)
Post by: NZMarkb on November 30, 2021, 12:51:13 PM
Post by: edz on November 30, 2021, 03:30:23 PM
Post by: Bird on November 30, 2021, 06:24:52 PM
Retro builder mobs are doing these sorts of things .. Favourite classics as new build EV's https://unsealed4x4.com.au/hot-or-not-zero-labs-electric-ford-bronco/ (https://unsealed4x4.com.au/hot-or-not-zero-labs-electric-ford-bronco/)I reckon that will be a massive market.
I'd have one of these https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/electric-holden-torana-e-a9x (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/electric-holden-torana-e-a9x) then convert it back to a big block
Post by: Bird on December 06, 2021, 02:38:16 PM
https://youtu.be/x-6kHjF1U1E?t=401 (https://youtu.be/x-6kHjF1U1E?t=401)
Post by: Fizzie on December 08, 2021, 09:46:14 AM
Post by: edz on December 08, 2021, 02:43:35 PM
Post by: Bird on December 10, 2021, 06:54:26 PM
Post by: Gazza00 on December 17, 2021, 06:11:26 PM
https://cfpa-e.eu/container-puts-out-inextinguishable-fires-in-electric-cars/ (https://cfpa-e.eu/container-puts-out-inextinguishable-fires-in-electric-cars/)
Post by: Hairs on December 20, 2021, 04:01:18 PM
Dear dual-cab dinosaurs: You think Toyota's electric HiLux won't work in Australia? You're wrong | Opinion
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/dear-dual-cab-dinosaurs-you-think-toyotas-electric-hilux-wont-work-in-australia-youre-wrong
Post by: bmwfreak on December 20, 2021, 06:59:05 PM
Carguide just lease this.Speaking of dinosaurs, get it right please 🤪 https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/dear-dual-cab-dinosaurs-you-think-toyotas-electric-hilux-wont-work-in-australia-youre-wrong (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/dear-dual-cab-dinosaurs-you-think-toyotas-electric-hilux-wont-work-in-australia-youre-wrong)
Dear dual-cab dinosaurs: You think Toyota's electric HiLux won't work in Australia? You're wrong | Opinion
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/dear-dual-cab-dinosaurs-you-think-toyotas-electric-hilux-wont-work-in-australia-youre-wrong
Post by: Hairs on December 20, 2021, 07:13:01 PM
Speaking of dinosaurs, get it right please???
Link was working fine when I posted.
Stills works for me.
Post by: DandyD on December 24, 2021, 09:24:29 PM
Explosion of fury from Tesla driver angry with repair bill
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/explosion-of-fury-from-tesla-driver-angry-with-repair-bill-76mhn9snt (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/explosion-of-fury-from-tesla-driver-angry-with-repair-bill-76mhn9snt)
Post by: Fizzie on December 28, 2021, 02:42:31 PM
Just watching the latest episode & spotted this bit:
https://youtu.be/lUYfTrXHK4U?t=40 (https://youtu.be/lUYfTrXHK4U?t=40)
That somewhat amazed me, as I thought water & electricity didn't mix ???
He did it well, though :cup:
Post by: Bird on December 28, 2021, 05:10:32 PM
Hopefully you can actually see this down under…punch that URL into here to get past the paywall or any paywall I've tried..... works awesome
Explosion of fury from Tesla driver angry with repair bill
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/explosion-of-fury-from-tesla-driver-angry-with-repair-bill-76mhn9snt (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/explosion-of-fury-from-tesla-driver-angry-with-repair-bill-76mhn9snt)
https://12ft.io/ (https://12ft.io/)
Post by: Bird on February 03, 2022, 09:52:03 AM
https://www.ign.com/articles/tesla-released-teslamic-a-karaoke-mic-for-cars (https://www.ign.com/articles/tesla-released-teslamic-a-karaoke-mic-for-cars)
(https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2022/01/Tesla-Teslamic-karaoke.jpg)
Post by: westvic on February 05, 2022, 01:07:57 PM
Hmmm any ideas on how this affects GCM? Could end up with a 4000kg van pretty quickly
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/airstream-estream-trailer-concept-lithium-ion-battery-driven-axles/ (https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/airstream-estream-trailer-concept-lithium-ion-battery-driven-axles/)
But at least 80kWh is a LOT of cold beers :cheers:
Post by: Bird on February 05, 2022, 03:54:19 PM
Caravan (admittedly concept only) with 80kWh battery and self powered wheels!!!USA arent they? do they even give a Shit about weights with some of the mods on cars they are allowed ???
Hmmm any ideas on how this affects GCM? Could end up with a 4000kg van pretty quickly
Post by: Bird on February 05, 2022, 05:31:27 PM
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/02/cars/tesla-teen-hack/index.html (https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/02/cars/tesla-teen-hack/index.html)
Post by: GeoffA on February 05, 2022, 05:52:38 PM
The ensuing turmoil is sure to be a hoot.....as long as I'm not near it....
:cheers:
Post by: GeoffA on February 05, 2022, 05:54:27 PM
Post by: DandyD on February 05, 2022, 08:32:06 PM
USA arent they?
Al-Ko and others are also working on them in Europe..
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JeKFWpapJd4&feature=emb_imp_woyt (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JeKFWpapJd4&feature=emb_imp_woyt)
https://www.electrive.com/2021/07/25/dethleffs-zf-set-record-crossing-the-alps-with-electric-caravan/ (https://www.electrive.com/2021/07/25/dethleffs-zf-set-record-crossing-the-alps-with-electric-caravan/)
It’s going push the cost of caravans and trailers up to new highs.
Could be good for off-tarmac mobility though.
Post by: edz on February 06, 2022, 09:55:08 AM
Post by: Spada on February 11, 2022, 09:18:10 AM
Post by: Bird on February 11, 2022, 10:23:18 AM
doesn't matter how good the automated systems are, you should still drive - https://www.9news.com.au/world/tesla-on-autopilot-crashes-into-us-deputy-patrol-car-near-miss/59d22ebf-8f3c-4d60-b6ab-92a48b34baeb (https://www.9news.com.au/world/tesla-on-autopilot-crashes-into-us-deputy-patrol-car-near-miss/59d22ebf-8f3c-4d60-b6ab-92a48b34baeb)The Tesla's driver was Devainder Goli, a Raleigh doctor, who was watching a movie on his mobile phone while the car drove itself, according to officials.
The futures so bright... I gotta wear shades.
Post by: NZMarkb on February 11, 2022, 12:20:00 PM
There’s nothing interesting about electric cars 😉
Post by: prodigyrf on February 19, 2022, 10:27:24 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/ev-batteries-could-complicate-recovery-of-burning-cargo-ship-with-thousands-of-cars/ar-AAU2pAm
As if shipping costs for any goodies aren't high enough at present. 3693 cars and a 4000 berth floating carpark whenever they can't put out a runaway lithium battery fire. Yowzah!
Post by: Bird on February 19, 2022, 10:51:33 AM
That expensive lux EV you were thinking about just got a whole lot dearer-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/ev-batteries-could-complicate-recovery-of-burning-cargo-ship-with-thousands-of-cars/ar-AAU2pAm
As if shipping costs for any goodies aren't high enough at present. 3693 cars and a 4000 berth floating carpark whenever they can't put out a runaway lithium battery fire. Yowzah!
yup lol
While the exact vehicle breakdown is unknown, there are at least 1100 Porsches on the vessel. According to The Drive, there are also 189 Bentley vehicles and hundreds of Audis. The total retail value of the Bentleys alone could exceed A$41.69 million
Post by: prodigyrf on February 26, 2022, 03:56:32 PM
The summary of the exercise is around the 21:18 mark
Post by: prodigyrf on February 27, 2022, 05:38:49 PM
https://premium.goauto.com.au/ev-fires-become-hot-issue/
Not to mention the ever hungry lawyers lurking about the place. A real problem for hi-rise carparking and memories of Grenfell Towers and 911 but the solution they mention for EV owners putting them bye byes every time is here- https://www.edarley.com/car-fire-blanket/
Won't that thrill the clay bar and two bucket wash and polish crowd? Houston we have a problem!
Post by: prodigyrf on March 02, 2022, 02:07:44 PM
https://www.seatrade-maritime.com/casualty/felicity-ace-sinks-cargo-luxury-cars
The problem for Western EV makers like VAG Tesla Hyundai GM etc is Chinese BYD have leapfrogged them with lithium battery safety-
https://evreporter.com/byd-blade-battery-what-makes-it-ultra-safe/
Nobody will want your legacy incendiary car on their ferries or charging in the basements of their Grenfell Towers and the insurance industry will be the first messenger with the bad news.
Post by: NZMarkb on March 02, 2022, 02:23:26 PM
This will have implications on shipping and shipping companies insurance
Most insurance companies won’t cover your house if you are changing one in your adjoining garage
Post by: Bird on March 22, 2022, 10:16:48 PM
There is so much wrong in that article...
like
The court heard that Ms Agrawal, whose driver’s licence had previously been suspended,
She allegedly fled the scene before turning herself in to police.
'Ms Agrawal’s partner, who returned with her to the scene, told Nine News the collision was “just a normal accident, it happens every day”.'
And still gets bail???
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/woman-in-critical-condition-after-hit-run-in-armadale-20220322-p5a6sb.html (https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/woman-in-critical-condition-after-hit-run-in-armadale-20220322-p5a6sb.html)
Bring on the kangaroo
Post by: l0ckym on March 23, 2022, 10:10:52 AM
Good thing about the Tesla, is that VicPol will get forensic access to the vehicles computers, cameras and data.
They'll know if it was on autopilot - and if it was, there will be camera footage of what the driver was doing (i.e. texting most likely - allegedly).
They'll know everything, in a short period of time, every input and output, speed, GPS -everything. Even with dashcams in standard cars today, the level of data would not be the same.
Hopefully, with that evidence - clear paths to justice can be formed quickly.
That being said, there is someone with very severe sounding injuries...I hope she pulls through
Post by: prodigyrf on March 26, 2022, 08:41:41 PM
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/why-a-tesla-is-so-hard-and-expensive-to-insure
Post by: GeoffA on March 27, 2022, 06:48:24 AM
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/why-a-tesla-is-so-hard-and-expensive-to-insure (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/why-a-tesla-is-so-hard-and-expensive-to-insure)
Post by: Bird on April 04, 2022, 09:30:56 AM
Post by: lloydus67 on April 04, 2022, 02:19:06 PM
The batteries may well have made the fire devastating, but that certainly doesn’t mean that they were the cause.
Lloyd
Sent from me
Post by: prodigyrf on April 05, 2022, 05:01:26 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/we-re-not-even-close-to-evs-being-as-cheap-as-gas-cars-mercedes-says/ar-AAVQNJo
Klaus from BMW warned us about believing energy costing would work like computing power development has back in 2018-
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/the-reason-why-electric-cars-will-always-be-expensive/news-story/8f8d81ac872578ad665a264c91b17505
Lithium battery tech has plumbed the bottom with development and economies of scale and now here comes price rises with accelerated raw materials demand-
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model-3-price-increase/
Post by: Spada on April 06, 2022, 05:47:09 AM
It doesn’t establish the Tesla was at fault only that it was charging.
Lloyd
Seems it may not have been an electric car after all ::)
Quote
Early reports suggested the blaze could have been started by a charging Tesla, but news.com.au can now confirm the two vehicles in the garage were a Hyundai and a Holden.https://www.news.com.au/technology/family-home-destroyed-in-fire-reportedly-started-by-charging-tesla/news-story/b3dfed12d21ea9a80372c6919b0cfa17 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/family-home-destroyed-in-fire-reportedly-started-by-charging-tesla/news-story/b3dfed12d21ea9a80372c6919b0cfa17)
Post by: prodigyrf on April 20, 2022, 12:25:03 PM
That largely leaves Elon to satisfy the well to do zoom zoom market at present but that has its limits without snouts in the taxpayer trough.
Post by: prodigyrf on April 24, 2022, 11:12:10 AM
https://www.drive.com.au/news/bmw-ceo-electric-cars/
That's because Elon the market leader is running out of affordable lithium and is spruiking for more to come onstream-
https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/pm/musk-says-mine-lithium-and-mint-money/13851706
The promise that energy and storage would be just like the micro processor revolution and follow Moore's Law was always a delusional mantra of those devoid of any understanding of physics engineering and its handmaiden economics.
Post by: bmwfreak on April 24, 2022, 02:45:17 PM
BMW joins Toyota Stellantis and Porsche with the skepticism-
https://www.drive.com.au/news/bmw-ceo-electric-cars/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/bmw-ceo-electric-cars/)
That's because Elon the market leader is running out of affordable lithium and is spruiking for more to come onstream-
https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/pm/musk-says-mine-lithium-and-mint-money/13851706 (https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/pm/musk-says-mine-lithium-and-mint-money/13851706)
The promise that energy and storage would be just like the micro processor revolution and follow Moore's Law was always a delusional mantra of those devoid of any understanding of physics engineering and its handmaiden economics.
Excuse me prodigyrf, I’m a bit OCD and rude, but please don’t take it as bullying😝
Post by: Bird on May 11, 2022, 07:43:39 PM
The Prius hybrid was first launched in 2001 in Australia and spawned several variants, including the Prius C hatchback and Prius V seven-seater. All three models combined for more than 35,000 sales.
Post by: prodigyrf on May 11, 2022, 08:57:03 PM
https://thedriven.io/2022/05/11/musk-warns-tesla-may-stop-taking-ev-orders-because-of-huge-delays/
In the meantime it doesn't really matter where the ICE cars are being displaced by EVs with the dreaded plant food now does it? London Stuttgart Oslo NY or Beijing it's all the same outcome with the scarce EV supply and global warming isn't it?
Post by: Bird on July 06, 2022, 11:54:25 AM
Last Tuesday, a swarm of Cruise-branded Chevrolet Bolts malfunctioned simultaneously at the same location, resulting in a blockade of cars across a four-lane road that reportedly jammed traffic for hours.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/a-swarm-of-self-driving-cruise-taxis-blocked-san-francisco-traffic-for-hours (https://www.thedrive.com/news/a-swarm-of-self-driving-cruise-taxis-blocked-san-francisco-traffic-for-hours)
Post by: alnjan on July 06, 2022, 07:33:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e55Vued028 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-e55Vued028)
Post by: Robbo on July 09, 2022, 09:00:10 AM
Post by: Foo on July 09, 2022, 11:59:34 AM
Always Be Prepared when travelling in your EV ;D ;D
:laugh: :laugh: :cup:
Foo
Post by: Fizzie on July 17, 2022, 03:59:52 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-17/qld-electric-vehicle-charging-stations-heading-west/101245520 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-17/qld-electric-vehicle-charging-stations-heading-west/101245520)
Post by: Rodt on July 22, 2022, 08:03:51 AM
Also have been thinking that with the big 4wd's or maybe even the smaller vehicles why couldn't they have a built in generator. Still uses fuel yes but a hell of a lot less than filling the vehicle up.
Just two ideas but I think it is this sort of innovation that will get this technology wider acceptance as the biggest opposition that I see at this stage is the fear of getting stranded.
Post by: Pottsy on July 22, 2022, 09:01:35 AM
I may be thinking about it a bit too simplistically but if electric is the way we are going (or even a hybrid) why can't they have simple things like a solar panel incorporated into the roof, bonnet etc or even be these. I saw an article some time ago about a caravan awning being a flexible solar panel so it can be done.
Also have been thinking that with the big 4wd's or maybe even the smaller vehicles why couldn't they have a built in generator. Still uses fuel yes but a hell of a lot less than filling the vehicle up.
Just two ideas but I think it is this sort of innovation that will get this technology wider acceptance as the biggest opposition that I see at this stage is the fear of getting stranded.
Check out the Nissan XTrail E version touted for 2023, it has a ICE which powers a generator and regenerative braking and down hill running etc
Post by: 2Strokeit on July 22, 2022, 09:45:48 AM
I may be thinking about it a bit too simplistically but if electric is the way we are going (or even a hybrid) why can't they have simple things like a solar panel incorporated into the roof, bonnet etc or even be these.
Problem I can see with that is how do you reliably shut power down from one panel or zone in an accident? Not just the power wire but every cell could spark. Has the runaway lithium battery fire problem been solved, it's been how many years?
Sent from my SM-A525F using Tapatalk
Post by: GeoffA on July 22, 2022, 06:33:01 PM
I may be thinking about it a bit too simplistically but if electric is the way we are going (or even a hybrid) why can't they have simple things like a solar panel incorporated into the roof, bonnet etc or even be these. I saw an article some time ago about a caravan awning being a flexible solar panel so it can be done.
Also have been thinking that with the big 4wd's or maybe even the smaller vehicles why couldn't they have a built in generator. Still uses fuel yes but a hell of a lot less than filling the vehicle up.
Just two ideas but I think it is this sort of innovation that will get this technology wider acceptance as the biggest opposition that I see at this stage is the fear of getting stranded.
;D ;D ;D
The laws of physics, and the fact that there is no free lunch would come into play......
Post by: edz on July 23, 2022, 09:06:24 AM
Been thinking that with the big 4wd's or maybe even the smaller vehicles why couldn't they have a built in generator. Still uses fuel yes but a hell of a lot less than filling the vehicle up.
Sort all the problems for cars / trucks / homes with a fingernail size pellet of basicaly harmless radioactive material to heat a closed circuit water system, to generate steam / power a small turbine make electricty .. the unit would be roughly the size of a milk crate plus a water tank and radiator ..
They do have micro reactors already, The issue is more about letting the radioactive material out into the public .
Post by: Mace on July 23, 2022, 04:00:08 PM
I may be thinking about it a bit too simplistically but if electric is the way we are going (or even a hybrid) why can't they have simple things like a solar panel incorporated into the roof, bonnet etc or even be these. I saw an article some time ago about a caravan awning being a flexible solar panel so it can be done.
Feasible, but...
A 30kw car battery takes 30,000 watts to charge. That's 100 hours of charging time @ full panel capacity of a 300w panel... If you could get say 1200w capacity out of a vehicle roof space, that would take 25 hours to charge (at full panel capacity). So to fully charge would likely take 3 to 4 days.
So integration of solar panels into a vehicle shell would assist, but perhaps not so much in the big picture.
New panel technology may change this.
:cheers:
Post by: Fizzie on July 24, 2022, 06:58:15 AM
Post by: mumbls on July 24, 2022, 01:26:13 PM
Feasible, but...
A 30kw car battery takes 30,000 watts to charge. That's 100 hours of charging time @ full panel capacity of a 300w panel... If you could get say 1200w capacity out of a vehicle roof space, that would take 25 hours to charge (at full panel capacity). So to fully charge would likely take 3 to 4 days.
So integration of solar panels into a vehicle shell would assist, but perhaps not so much in the big picture.
New panel technology may change this.
:cheers:
That may be correct, but it would be interesting in the real world. My wife is a good example, she does 5ks to work and the car sits outside all day (8.5 hrs). Yes the car would need mains connection from time to time, but the panels should do the bulk of it. Be interesting to see how many commuters fit this profile?
Post by: Fizzie on July 24, 2022, 03:55:13 PM
As Mace said: A 30kw car battery takes 30,000 watts to charge. That's 100 hours of charging time @ full panel capacity of a 300w panel.
No arguments there, but looking at it incredibly simply ;D, that 30kw = ~400k range, so 3kw = 40k & 1.5kw = 20k. Using that same 300w panel, that should be only 5 hours to recharge that 1.5kw!
Post by: austastar on July 24, 2022, 07:53:31 PM
An example of the limitations of driving on solar only is the Darwin to Adelaide solar challenge.
Not exactly a utilitarian vehicle.
Cheers(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220724/d988e381b23f21b326476505a865f8fc.jpg)
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Post by: Robbo on July 24, 2022, 08:20:13 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220724/9681fe6b1de55e78539a1d1207a64cc0.jpg)Sent from my SM-J600G using Tapatalk
Post by: poid on July 24, 2022, 09:07:30 PM
It would be an interesting one to check out ???
As Mace said: A 30kw car battery takes 30,000 watts to charge. That's 100 hours of charging time @ full panel capacity of a 300w panel.
No arguments there, but looking at it incredibly simply ;D, that 30kw = ~400k range, so 3kw = 40k & 1.5kw = 20k. Using that same 300w panel, that should be only 5 hours to recharge that 1.5kw!
you're not getting 400km range out of a 30kw battery, nor the full 300w out of the panel. In Sydney a 300w would put out an average of 1.2kw a day across a year. A Tesla model 3 uses around 13-16kwh/100km for most people, depending on conditions and model. So less than 10km a day on average.
Fiskar is doing a whole roof panel for their Ocean SUV, and claim it can produce ~2,400km worth of charging a year if the car is in the sun the whole time. So that's ~6.5km a day of driving range on average. I don't think I'd be parking a Fiskar in the sun all day.
Post by: MDS69 on July 25, 2022, 08:37:50 PM
Post by: gronk on July 26, 2022, 09:55:25 AM
I saw a meme somewhere recently, probably Facebook, saying along the lines that if you want to drive/own an EV you should be made to charge it via solar or a wind farm and not use mains power or generator etc. I like that way of thinking.
The speed at which they are shutting fossil fuel power stations down, that idea may have to be mandatory !
Post by: Mace on July 26, 2022, 10:08:36 AM
The speed at which they are shutting fossil fuel power stations down, that idea may have to be mandatory !
People with home solar - like ourselves, are the most likely first adapters to EV's, so no issues with that. With home solar approaching 25% of residents in some areas many will see the benefits of adding an EV battery to their solar set up at a far cheaper cost than a Power Wall. The new term is V2H - Vehicle to Home.
https://theconversation.com/can-my-electric-car-power-my-house-not-yet-for-most-drivers-but-vehicle-to-home-charging-is-coming-163332 (https://theconversation.com/can-my-electric-car-power-my-house-not-yet-for-most-drivers-but-vehicle-to-home-charging-is-coming-163332)
A 13.5 kwh power wall costs $12k plus installation so about $16k all up. A new EV will cost you $20-25k more than the comparable ICE vehicle and gives you at least 30kwh capacity and possibly 50kwh.
On our radar...
:cheers:
Post by: gronk on July 26, 2022, 07:48:20 PM
People with home solar - like ourselves, are the most likely first adapters to EV's, so no issues with that. With home solar approaching 25% of residents in some areas many will see the benefits of adding an EV battery to their solar set up at a far cheaper cost than a Power Wall. The new term is V2H - Vehicle to Home.
https://theconversation.com/can-my-electric-car-power-my-house-not-yet-for-most-drivers-but-vehicle-to-home-charging-is-coming-163332 (https://theconversation.com/can-my-electric-car-power-my-house-not-yet-for-most-drivers-but-vehicle-to-home-charging-is-coming-163332)
A 13.5 kwh power wall costs $12k plus installation so about $16k all up. A new EV will cost you $20-25k more than the comparable ICE vehicle and gives you at least 30kwh capacity and possibly 50kwh.
On our radar...
:cheers:
How do you think that would work ? You use the EV to go to work, come home and charge it ? What with ?
And then you say you’ll use the EV battery as a power cell for your home ?
The solar on your roof can certainly power your home…during the day(if sunny )
The solar on your roof could also charge the EV ( if the system was big enough )….but the EV is at your work, and doesn’t come home till it’s nearly dark.
So now the dilemma is…..the EV needs charging….with grid power…and you’ll pay a lot more than the house kw/h price to charge it.
But you still have no home use for the EV battery as it’s charging ?
Post by: alnjan on July 26, 2022, 08:11:48 PM
I have rad else where the biggest issue with the fast charger sets ups is the conventional family hoe does not have the capacity to deliver a fast charge for the EV.
For the rest of the story maybe someone from the area may be able to comment.
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225541231970095&set=a.3978068002545 (https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10225541231970095&set=a.3978068002545)
Post by: Bird on July 26, 2022, 08:37:11 PM
Post by: gronk on July 26, 2022, 10:17:01 PM
long live petrol and diesel!
Yep, for a while yet !!
I don’t believe EV’s are the future…more a stop gap until the next “solution”..
Fuel cells, fusion , hydrogen, ..but not as we know them now.
Post by: Fizzie on July 27, 2022, 07:50:26 AM
long live petrol and diesel!
Think it depends on what you call "long" ???
10 years, yep definitely, beyond that I'm not too sure ???
& not too sure what it's going to mean for those of us that would usually be looking at replacing their car in that 10 years time :'( ???
Post by: NZMarkb on July 27, 2022, 08:22:40 AM
10 years, yep definitely, beyond that I'm not too sure ???
Seriously, I remember in the 70's they were telling us oil was running out
Post by: GeoffA on July 27, 2022, 11:31:40 AM
Seriously, I remember in the 70's they were telling us oil was running out
...and another ice age was coming...
Post by: NZMarkb on July 27, 2022, 11:46:04 AM
...and another ice age was coming...
Yes I remember that too :cup:
The young fella’s at work look at me strangely when I talk about that :cheers:
Post by: gronk on July 27, 2022, 02:01:56 PM
...and another ice age was coming...
And now it’s climate change…..we’ll see what became of it in 40 years ?
Sorry, not me…I won’t be around !!
Post by: Bird on July 27, 2022, 03:15:30 PM
Seriously, I remember in the 70's they were telling us oil was running out
... and they were telling us nothing would save the Governor General
Post by: edz on July 28, 2022, 01:52:52 PM
No big deal, Generaly these cars are doing say on average 20 kph below the posted / average flow of traffic speeds ..
Sitting behind another couple the other day in the traffic cue " It clicked and the light bulb blinked on " these cars are EV's ..
Not saying all are slow, not the case ... But its the drivers who have picked up their nice new little Golf Buggy and are watching the battery level gauge drop, like hawks ..
The reason behind the 15 > 20 kph drop off in speed Im thinking is " Range Anxiety " Not too many chargers around this end of the coast .. Less speed slower the battery drops ... Bingo each trip so far ..
Coincidence not sure but its just not on the M1 either, noticed it around our towns roads too ..
Post by: #jonesy on July 28, 2022, 05:03:06 PM
Post by: Fizzie on July 29, 2022, 07:29:32 AM
I recently did some work for the body corporate at the Dock 5 Apartment Building in Docklands in Melbourne to see if we could install a small number of electric charging points for owners to charge their electric vehicles.
We had our first three applications and we discovered:
1. The building has no non-allocated parking spaces ie public ones. This is typical of most apartment buildings so we cannot provide shared outlets.
2. The power supply in the building was designed for the loads in the building with virtually no spare capacity. Only 5 or 6 chargers could be installed in total in a building with 188 apartments!!
3. How do you allocate them as they would add value to any apartment owning one. The Shit-fight started on day one with about 20 applications received 1st day and with many more following.
4. The car park sub-boards cannot carry the extra loads of even one charger and would have to be upgraded on any floors with a charger as would the supply mains to each sub- board.
5. The main switch board would then have to be upgraded to add the heavier circuit breakers for the sub mains upgrade and furthermore:
6. When Docklands was designed a limit was put on the number of apartments in each precinct and the mains and transformers in the streets designed accordingly.
This means there is no capacity in the Docklands street grid for any significant quantity of car chargers in any building in the area.
7. It gets better. The whole CBD (Hoddle Grid, Docklands) and Southbank is fed by two sub stations. One in Port Melbourne and one in West Melbourne.
This was done to have two alternate feeds in case one failed or was down for maintenance. Because of the growth in the city /Docklands and Southbank now neither one is capable of supplying the full requirement of Melbourne zone at peak usage in mid- summer if the other is out of action. The Port Melbourne 66,000 volt feeder runs on 50 or 60 year old wooden power poles above ground along Dorcas Street South Melbourne. One is pole is located 40 cm from the corner Kerb at the incredibly busy Ferrars /St Dorcas St Intersection and is very vulnerable to being wiped out by a wayward vehicle.
The infrastructure expenditure required would dwarf the NBN cost & that’s not including the new power stations required!
These advocates of electric vehicles by 2040 are completely bonkers! It takes 5-8 years to design and build a large coal fired power station like Loy Yang and even longer for a Nuclear one (That’s after you get the political will, permits and legislative changes needed). Wind and solar just can’t produce enough. Tidal power might but that’s further away than nuclear.
MOST AUSTRALIANS DON’T UNDERSTAND THIS YET……………..!
It's just a Greenie’s dream for the foreseeable future, other than in small wealthy countries.
The grid simply cannot support it in most places in Australia!
An agenda driven by stupid Greenies and supported by stupider Politicians.
Post by: GeoffA on July 29, 2022, 07:35:38 AM
Post by: Foo on July 29, 2022, 09:09:14 AM
I'm sure Greenies believe that the world can be powered by two AA batteries...
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :cup:
Foo
Post by: Bird on July 29, 2022, 10:41:10 AM
Quote from: GeoffA
I'm sure Greenies believe that the world can be powered by two AA batteries...
dont you mean CR2032 buttons?
Post by: austastar on July 29, 2022, 11:19:54 AM
Has anybody done a study to convert the volume of our daily retail fuel sales to the electrical equivalent.
Can that demand be met?
If we don't have an overlapping excess for the transition period, the likely result will be an electricity shortfall resulting in a lot of unhappy voters.
I know 2 families powering their EVs from off grid solar, but they dont live in the big cities.
Cheers
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Post by: Bird on July 29, 2022, 11:42:13 AM
Post by: prodigyrf on July 31, 2022, 01:02:28 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/advocates-say-two-wheeled-evs-a-cheaper-greener-option-to-de-carbonise-transport/ar-AA108LFQ
Post by: Fizzie on August 01, 2022, 07:37:16 AM
Since I've got my trike, I'm using it for lots of short trips for appointments, to pick up just a few grocery items or a script from the chemist & similar.
Up to ~5k trip, it's proven to be as fast as the car in travel time, & sometimes, like when you can ride across this foot-bridge, rather than drive all the way around the lake, it's half the time!
No, you obviously can't do the fortnights groceries, & similar big, heavy, bulky jobs, but every little bit helps! (especially with diesel still sitting in the 220s! :'( >:()
Post by: edz on August 02, 2022, 03:05:30 PM
Charges from an ordinary 240v wall plug at a servo to full in 15 minutes ..
Cant ubderstand why anyone wouldnt want to go to an EV ....
He must have got the one off " Rainbow Fairy Dust Unicorn special edition Tesla " ...... Ferkin Muppet .
Post by: Pottsy on August 02, 2022, 03:50:26 PM
I can't actually disagree with them there! :o
Since I've got my trike, I'm using it for lots of short trips for appointments, to pick up just a few grocery items or a script from the chemist & similar.
Up to ~5k trip, it's proven to be as fast as the car in travel time, & sometimes, like when you can ride across this foot-bridge, rather than drive all the way around the lake, it's half the time!
No, you obviously can't do the fortnights groceries, & similar big, heavy, bulky jobs, but every little bit helps! (especially with diesel still sitting in the 220s! :'( >:()
Hey Fizzie, what brand of trike do you have?
Cheers
Pottsy
Post by: prodigyrf on August 02, 2022, 06:19:07 PM
As for those of us owning diesel fourbies and cars with 91 petrol at $1.52 in Adelaide vs $2.06 for diesel you have to think petrol hybrids are the future since EVs have their problems even if you can afford them-
https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2022/01/09/electric-car-crusaders-must-acknowledge-problems-or-the-revolution-will-fail/?sh=3fbcd2a73c44
Post by: Fizzie on August 03, 2022, 07:28:05 AM
Hey Fizzie, what brand of trike do you have?
Cheers
Pottsy
This beastie, Pottsy
https://dctrike.com/ (https://dctrike.com/)
Didn't come with the accessories shown though! (Which is possibly just as well ??? ;D)
Very stable & easy to use, but I can tell you that 25kph standing like that feels fast! 8)
Designed & assembled here on the GC!
I got the 500W model, but 250W at ~$600 less would have probably been fine.
Any ???, please ask.
Post by: Pottsy on August 03, 2022, 07:51:33 AM
Though they do look like fun
Cheers
Pottsy
Post by: NZMarkb on August 03, 2022, 08:09:58 AM
This beastie, Pottsy
https://dctrike.com/ (https://dctrike.com/)
Didn't come with the accessories shown though! (Which is possibly just as well ??? ;D)
Very stable & easy to use, but I can tell you that 25kph standing like that feels fast! 8)
Designed & assembled here on the GC!
They look pretty cool :cup: :cup:
That or an electric skateboard :cheers:
I got the 500W model, but 250W at ~$600 less would have probably been fine.
Any ???, please ask.
Post by: Kangaron on August 03, 2022, 10:30:04 AM
Lots of blokes buying these after losing their licenses think they can go to the pub.
At the moment every state has different rules, limits etc.
Bu, they do look like fun.
Post by: austastar on August 03, 2022, 12:41:23 PM
Bu, they do look like fun.Hi,
Mrs has had a bee in her bonnet over e-scooters for ages. Just not practical for where we live or go.
With the help of no2 son she got the Beam App on her phone and we went to try one.
Yep, dead easy to ride and about the same speed as I used to cycle BUT...
Twitchy, can't take a hand off the bars to snatch a glance back over the right shoulder.
No suspension on solid tyres.
$13 for about 8km.
Definitely not as pleasant (on the flat at least) as the push bike.
Cheers
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Post by: Fizzie on August 04, 2022, 02:51:37 PM
but I think the bride might need to park the rear end to be a bit more stable.
Did you watch the included video: https://vimeo.com/570117937 (https://vimeo.com/570117937)? Zip through till about the 30 second mark & check out grandma!
can't take a hand off the bars to snatch a glance back over the right shoulder.
I found the same thing, so got a pair of https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111723168578 (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/111723168578), & have one set up hanging down under the right hand bar, where I can see any traffic coming up behind 8)
Post by: Pottsy on August 04, 2022, 03:25:29 PM
Post by: alnjan on August 04, 2022, 04:32:11 PM
Yeah, nah , bad balance issues and f…ed shoulders from falls already, sitting will be a safer option I’d reckon when the time comes. I like them though. Could be a bit of fun.
Agree, with mobility issues, standing is not the best. Sitting is better.
Post by: gronk on August 04, 2022, 10:21:39 PM
This beastie, Pottsy
https://dctrike.com/ (https://dctrike.com/)
Didn't come with the accessories shown though! (Which is possibly just as well ??? ;D)
Very stable & easy to use, but I can tell you that 25kph standing like that feels fast! 8)
Designed & assembled here on the GC!
I got the 500W model, but 250W at ~$600 less would have probably been fine.
Any ???, please ask.
But these can only be ridden on private property !
Suppose it’s ok if you live at a retirement village etc !
Post by: Fizzie on August 05, 2022, 07:16:00 AM
Yeah, nah , bad balance issues and f…ed shoulders from falls already, sitting will be a safer option I’d reckon when the time comes. I like them though. Could be a bit of fun.
Agree, with mobility issues, standing is not the best. Sitting is better.
Know what you both mean! :'(
They have also built them with a slightly modified deck so you can roll a wheelchair up onto it, lock it in place & then ride away! The bloke was saying that the reaction from people that have suddenly had mobility for the first time is amazing ;D :cup:
Post by: Fizzie on August 05, 2022, 07:19:59 AM
But these can only be ridden on private property !
Suppose it’s ok if you live at a retirement village etc !
Road (& footpath!) legal in Qld at least, & when I asked, they said they've sold quite a few into NSW & haven't yet heard of anybody having problems with :police:.
They suggested that you go into TNSW (that's their name this week, isn't it ???) & ask for a ruling, & if thy say no, ask why, as e-scooters are legal in NSW & this can classify as a scooter as can be manually pushed!
Post by: alnjan on August 05, 2022, 10:00:45 AM
Know what you both mean! :'(
They have also built them with a slightly modified deck so you can roll a wheelchair up onto it, lock it in place & then ride away! The bloke was saying that the reaction from people that have suddenly had mobility for the first time is amazing ;D :cup:
There has been this type of attachment for wheel chairs for a while now. https://rgkwheelchairs.com/wheelchairs/power-solutions/triride.html (https://rgkwheelchairs.com/wheelchairs/power-solutions/triride.html)
With their trike, they easily could include a seat on it.
Post by: gronk on August 05, 2022, 01:52:44 PM
Road (& footpath!) legal in Qld at least, & when I asked, they said they've sold quite a few into NSW & haven't yet heard of anybody having problems with :police:.
They suggested that you go into TNSW (that's their name this week, isn't it ???) & ask for a ruling, & if thy say no, ask why, as e-scooters are legal in NSW & this can classify as a scooter as can be manually pushed!
Sorry, didn’t know they allowed them in Qld now.
E scooters are NOT legal in NSW.
Post by: Mace on August 05, 2022, 02:13:39 PM
Sorry, didn’t know they allowed them in Qld now.
E scooters are NOT legal in NSW.
https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/e-scooters/index.html (https://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov.au/stayingsafe/e-scooters/index.html)
Not yet...
Hundreds of them down here, also on a 12-month trail throughout Hobart City. PITA, they get left at random spots all around the city, blocking footpaths and the like. They are allowed on footpaths....
Post by: austastar on August 05, 2022, 04:07:02 PM
They need a bell. Got a start when one whizzed past me the other day on a very narrow footpath.
Cheers
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Post by: GeoffA on August 05, 2022, 05:11:09 PM
Hi,
They need a bell. Got a start when one whizzed past me the other day on a very narrow footpath.
Cheers
Air horns could be fun.... ;D ;D
Post by: austastar on August 05, 2022, 08:38:32 PM
Cheers
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Post by: Fizzie on August 06, 2022, 07:34:20 AM
They need a bell. Got a start when one whizzed past me the other day on a very narrow footpath.
We had a go on Segways a couple of years ago, along the beachfront at Coolangatta. They were fun, too! ;D
They, by law, also have to have a bell fitted so you can warn anybody that you're coming up behind them, but, as the bloke running them said, Please don't use it, because people complain to Council about the bells dinging! ::)
Post by: DandyD on August 12, 2022, 05:31:00 AM
TOW NO! I towed a caravan with an electric car and it was a DISASTER – you’re still better off with diesel
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/19466473/test-drove-electric-skoda-enyaq-caravan/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/19466473/test-drove-electric-skoda-enyaq-caravan/)
Post by: NZMarkb on August 12, 2022, 06:28:55 AM
From a UK perspective…
TOW NO! I towed a caravan with an electric car and it was a DISASTER – you’re still better off with diesel
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/19466473/test-drove-electric-skoda-enyaq-caravan/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/19466473/test-drove-electric-skoda-enyaq-caravan/)
I can only dream about what Jeremy Clarkson would have to say about that >:D >:D >:D :cheers:
Post by: Fizzie on August 12, 2022, 09:24:16 AM
TOW NO! I towed a caravan with an electric car and it was a DISASTER – you’re still better off with diesel
But having said that:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-11/electric-bushmaster-bendigo/101322502 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-11/electric-bushmaster-bendigo/101322502)
???
Post by: DandyD on August 12, 2022, 09:36:43 AM
But having said that:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-11/electric-bushmaster-bendigo/101322502 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-11/electric-bushmaster-bendigo/101322502)
???
Because you can always be sure of finding a working charger on a battlefield. Perhaps they have a special phone app for that.
Post by: Steffo1 on August 12, 2022, 09:50:30 AM
Because you can always be sure of finding a working charger on a battlefield. Perhaps they have a special phone app for that.
More likely....
Post by: Bird on August 12, 2022, 12:50:03 PM
Because you can always be sure of finding a working charger on a battlefield. Perhaps they have a special phone app for that.(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/53090901.jpg)
Post by: Bird on August 19, 2022, 01:59:56 PM
then bad luck if theres 20 cars infront charging up
hahahahhaahhahaaahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!
The government is aiming to have a charging station every 150km on major roads.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/government-revisits-plan-to-impose-penalties-on-car-emissions/news-story/db9bc2b9a62551527155324e74acdda5 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/government-revisits-plan-to-impose-penalties-on-car-emissions/news-story/db9bc2b9a62551527155324e74acdda5)
Post by: sparksy on August 19, 2022, 05:50:51 PM
https://australian5.com/2022/08/12/australian-build-armoured-vehicle-goes-electric/?fbclid=IwAR2wvlpPuiRbmXQF-Cme94YtLPgYZm78NUh8bdQp4mQV_KP5bJSr0Q8DGMw
Post by: plusnq on August 19, 2022, 06:32:50 PM
your 2 week trip just got you 1/2 way to where you wanna be as you queue up for hours per car infront of you charging up LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!
then bad luck if theres 20 cars infront charging up
hahahahhaahhahaaahahahha!!!!!!!!!!!!
The government is aiming to have a charging station every 150km on major roads.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/government-revisits-plan-to-impose-penalties-on-car-emissions/news-story/db9bc2b9a62551527155324e74acdda5 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/government-revisits-plan-to-impose-penalties-on-car-emissions/news-story/db9bc2b9a62551527155324e74acdda5)
The queue at Windorah after the big red bash a few years ago was kilometres long for fuel.
Post by: Brij on August 19, 2022, 06:57:43 PM
Part of the reason we lost our automotive manufactures was we weren't a big enough market for vehicles that are only sold in Australia. Much more efficient to build 1,000,000 vehicles in Thailand and send 10,000 of to Australia than it is to have a "small" manufacturer build 10,000 in Australia.
However the media/government tells us it is more profitable for a manufacturer to build 990,000 high efficiency vehicles on one production line, and build the odd 10,000 low efficiency vehicles on a low scale line instead of just having one production line. ???
So to rectify the issue we have impose efficiency standards on manufactures to force them to take the "high profit margin", small scale production line vehicles out of the market and instead give us the "low profit margin", high volume production line models.
Ironically the heavy vehicle industry has to be minimum Euro 4, but you struggle to buy anything less than Euro 5 or 6 (as far as European trucks are concerned). We just get what ever is coming down the production line.
I suspect in reality the light vehicle market is the same.
Post by: Bird on August 19, 2022, 07:33:53 PM
Quote from: plusnq
The queue at Windorah after the big red bash a few years ago was kilometres long for fuel.Yep, and you can fuel up in minutes ;D ;)
Post by: gronk on August 19, 2022, 07:41:50 PM
Yep, and you can fuel up in minutes ;D ;)
Imagine what it would be like if it was EV’s…….take a ticket and we’ll call you when it’s your turn !! ;D
Post by: Bird on August 19, 2022, 08:09:13 PM
Imagine what it would be like if it was EV’s…….take a ticket and we’ll call you when it’s your turn !! ;DSorry our charging system has failed.... LOL
Post by: gronk on August 19, 2022, 09:23:51 PM
Sorry our charging system has failed.... LOL
While you’re waiting, get out the solar panels and try and put some trickle charge in !
Hang on…light bulb moment….just like the space station, for just an extra 25grand you can option the huge fold out solar panel array that unfolds out of the bonnet ( plenty of room seeing as there is no engine ).
And in “only” an hour, you have a 1/2 charged battery !!
Post by: Bird on August 19, 2022, 10:14:00 PM
While you’re waiting, get out the solar panels and try and put some trickle charge in !its ok its only 43 degrees while ya charge up
Hang on…light bulb moment….just like the space station, for just an extra 25grand you can option the huge fold out solar panel array that unfolds out of the bonnet ( plenty of room seeing as there is no engine ).
And in “only” an hour, you have a 1/2 charged battery !!
Post by: OldPaj on August 20, 2022, 07:56:39 PM
Bushmaster are now trialling electric hybrid. 300km range and battery mode allows silent running.Ask yourself why Thales (a CIVILIAN) contractor to Defence is doing this!
https://australian5.com/2022/08/12/australian-build-armoured-vehicle-goes-electric/?fbclid=IwAR2wvlpPuiRbmXQF-Cme94YtLPgYZm78NUh8bdQp4mQV_KP5bJSr0Q8DGMw
Simples - Research = Government (taxpayer) money by the bucket load!
Post by: sparksy on August 20, 2022, 09:14:59 PM
Ask yourself why Thales (a CIVILIAN) contractor to Defence is doing this!
Simples - Research = Government (taxpayer) money by the bucket load!
I suppose they have to start design and research somewhere but thing of the advantages for warfare with silent running and the advantage of auxillary uses of the battery supply.
Post by: sparksy on August 20, 2022, 09:35:32 PM
Think of the problems that will arise when everyone in a highrise with a parking space needs to have a charger installed and then puts their EV on charge when they get home.
This post relates to the docklands in Melbourne but every city will be the same.
"Thinking of an electric car??
Some Wise Words From An Electrical Contractor In Melbourne…
I recently did some work for the body corporate at the ****** Apartment Building in Docklands in Melbourne to see if we could install a small number of electric charging points for owners to charge their electric vehicles.
We had our first three applications and we discovered:
1. The building has no non- allocated parking spaces ie public ones. This is typical of most apartment buildings so we cannot provide shared outlets.
2. The power supply in the building was designed for the loads in the building with virtually no spare capacity. Only 5 or 6 chargers could be installed in total in a building with 188 apartments!!
3. How do you allocate them as they would add value to any apartment owning one. The Shit-fight started on day one with about 20 applications received 1st day and with many more following.
4. The car park sub-boards cannot carry the extra loads of even one charger and would have to be upgraded on any floors with a charger as would the supply mains to each sub- board.
5. The main switch board would then have to be upgraded to add the heavier circuit breakers for the sub mains upgrade and furthermore:
6. When Docklands was designed a limit was put on the number of apartments in each precinct and the mains and transformers in the streets designed accordingly.
This means there is no capacity in the Docklands street grid for any significant quantity of car chargers in any building in the area.
7. It gets better. The whole CBD (Hoddle Grid, Docklands) and Southbank is fed by two sub stations. One in Port Melbourne and one in West Melbourne.
This was done to have two alternate feeds in case one failed or was down for maintenance. Because of the growth in the city /Docklands and Southbank now neither one is capable of supplying the full requirement of Melbourne zone at peak usage in mid- summer if the other is out of action. The Port Melbourne 66,000 volt feeder runs on 50 or 60 year old wooden power poles above ground along Dorcas Street South Melbourne. One is pole is located 40 cm from the corner Kerb at the incredibly busy Ferrars /St Dorcas St Intersection and is very vulnerable to being wiped out by a wayward vehicle.
The infrastructure expenditure required would dwarf the NBN cost & that’s not including the new power stations required!
These advocates of electric vehicles by 2040 are completely bonkers! It takes 5-8 years to design and build a large coal fired power station like Loy Yang and even longer for a Nuclear one (That’s after you get the political will, permits and legislative changes needed). Wind and solar just can’t produce enough. Tidal power might but that’s further away than nuclear.
MOST AUSTRALIANS DON’T UNDERSTAND THIS YET……………..!
It's just a Greenie’s dream for the foreseeable future, other than in small wealthy countries.
The grid simply cannot support it in most places in Australia!
An agenda driven by stupid Greenies and supported by stupider Politicians."
Post by: Symon on August 20, 2022, 10:59:25 PM
Regardless, the grid capacity is a significant problem. I don't buy the argument from the green groups that decentralised grids are the solution, at a small scale sure, there are plenty of examples on islands and small population centres where that works. A highly populated metro area is a very different scenario.
Post by: Pottsy on August 24, 2022, 12:52:57 PM
Guess I won’t be banking with them.
Post by: shanegtr on August 24, 2022, 01:01:04 PM
I get confused by the talk of Australia being a dumping ground for high emissions vehicles.That's not the way I understand it. The difference is other countries have laws for average CO2 emissions of their fleet, so they need vehicles that are low emissions in their line up that need to sell to bring the average down. Australia doesn't have that so manufactures have no desire to ship those cars here - instead they get sold in countries where they need to and we just get the rest of the range. Imagine how Toyota and ford would cope with fleet targets - they would struggle as the bulk of their sales are all higher emission 4wds
Part of the reason we lost our automotive manufactures was we weren't a big enough market for vehicles that are only sold in Australia. Much more efficient to build 1,000,000 vehicles in Thailand and send 10,000 of to Australia than it is to have a "small" manufacturer build 10,000 in Australia.
However the media/government tells us it is more profitable for a manufacturer to build 990,000 high efficiency vehicles on one production line, and build the odd 10,000 low efficiency vehicles on a low scale line instead of just having one production line. ???
So to rectify the issue we have impose efficiency standards on manufactures to force them to take the "high profit margin", small scale production line vehicles out of the market and instead give us the "low profit margin", high volume production line models.
Ironically the heavy vehicle industry has to be minimum Euro 4, but you struggle to buy anything less than Euro 5 or 6 (as far as European trucks are concerned). We just get what ever is coming down the production line.
I suspect in reality the light vehicle market is the same.
https://www.eea.europa.eu/ims/co2-performance-of-new-passenger
New Ranger - 192-204g/km CO2
300 series - 235g/km Co2
Hilux - 207g/km Co2
Prado 209g/km Co2
EU fleet wide target 130g/km CO2
Post by: WilSurf on August 24, 2022, 01:07:55 PM
The amount of electric cars is amazing.
But they have charging stations at most servos on the freeway what helps.
Post by: gronk on August 24, 2022, 04:00:04 PM
Just came back from Holland visiting family.
The amount of electric cars is amazing.
But they have charging stations at most servos on the freeway what helps.
With a size similar to Tassie and flat as….I’d say well suited to EV’s.
Post by: Brij on August 24, 2022, 10:16:03 PM
That's not the way I understand it. The difference is other countries have laws for average CO2 emissions of their fleet, so they need vehicles that are low emissions in their line up that need to sell to bring the average down. Australia doesn't have that so manufactures have no desire to ship those cars here - instead they get sold in countries where they need to and we just get the rest of the range. Imagine how Toyota and ford would cope with fleet targets - they would struggle as the bulk of their sales are all higher emission 4wds
https://www.eea.europa.eu/ims/co2-performance-of-new-passenger
New Ranger - 192-204g/km CO2
300 series - 235g/km Co2
Hilux - 207g/km Co2
Prado 209g/km Co2
EU fleet wide target 130g/km CO2
Actually that is the way I see it as well, but not as a "dumping ground" for high emission vehicles, but the manufactures selecting vehicles that the Australian public want to buy that just happen to be higher emissions vehicles than they sell into countries of smaller land mass/more urban environments.
As you suggest the vehicles you have listed are generally available in other markets, not just dumped into Australia out of some special high emission factory, but they aren't big sellers in Europe, or Japan because the market is different.
I foresee the requirement for manufactures bring their average emissions down will mean heavily discounted (loss makers?) low emission "shopping trollies", and the higher emission vehicles becoming more expensive to maintian net profits.
Not necessarily a bad thing, but my brain then askes the question - all these high efficiency buzz boxes are generally in their best environment commuting in the urban environmment, so therefore why not be even more efficient and just use public transport?
Post by: prodigyrf on August 25, 2022, 12:00:26 AM
https://stockhead.com.au/resources/uh-we-dont-even-have-enough-resources-to-replace-the-batteries-were-running-now/
Most here would know that intuitively attempting to free camp with solar and batteries with a piddling fridge and a few LED lights.
It's worth bearing in mind that the energy of 4 barrels of oil is the equivalent of one man's physical hard work over a lifetime. You didn't have to impress our ancestors with the benefits of fossil fuels to ditch the horse ox windmill and millstream. We all live longer more pleasant lives as a result but how you see yourself in that depends on your outlook-
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/08/23/energy-crisis-lies-and-solutions-alex-epstein/
Post by: Bird on August 25, 2022, 02:26:12 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-24/caravan-parks-told-to-gear-up-for-electric-vehicles/101363598 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-24/caravan-parks-told-to-gear-up-for-electric-vehicles/101363598)
Post by: Fizzie on August 26, 2022, 07:45:36 AM
Then add 1 or 2 fast chargers, which are user pays.
Post by: Bird on August 26, 2022, 11:16:36 AM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/tesla-owner-implants-car-keys-in-his-hand-using-microchip/news-story/4b1a21ed728921a2243433a6690d767b (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/tesla-owner-implants-car-keys-in-his-hand-using-microchip/news-story/4b1a21ed728921a2243433a6690d767b)
Post by: Bird on August 29, 2022, 09:52:55 AM
Call to ban petrol cars within five years or not meet emission targets
Sydneysiders have been given a big wake-up call, with a new report revealing the city is not pulling its weight.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/call-to-ban-petrol-cars-within-five-years-or-not-meet-emission-targets/news-story/5f6db37980d63578d63d32a247fa7d54 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/call-to-ban-petrol-cars-within-five-years-or-not-meet-emission-targets/news-story/5f6db37980d63578d63d32a247fa7d54)
Post by: gronk on August 29, 2022, 06:42:09 PM
Nice move….force everyone to use electricity, even though it’s dearer…
Saw an article today about WA coming up with new electricity rules….if you live rural, and you update or build, you must put in a 32A main breaker……so if you use an aircon, toaster and maybe a washing machine at the same time….the breaker trips !!
All about “future” proofing the network for when more EV’s come along !!
Post by: austastar on August 29, 2022, 07:55:21 PM
We built in 1986 and had a dedicated 20A power socket wired in the garage.
Well it was for welding, but it could have been foresight: Couldn't it?
Yes?
No?
Maybe?
Cheers
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Post by: gronk on August 29, 2022, 09:45:09 PM
Hi,
We built in 1986 and had a dedicated 20A power socket wired in the garage.
Well it was for welding, but it could have been foresight: Couldn't it?
Yes?
No?
Maybe?
Cheers
Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Might be a few backyard jobs getting done in WA for any “new” additions !!
Post by: prodigyrf on August 30, 2022, 04:49:09 PM
The phasing out of gas connections to new housing estates has already begun in Victoria !!
Nice move….force everyone to use electricity, even though it’s dearer…
Saw an article today about WA coming up with new electricity rules….if you live rural, and you update or build, you must put in a 32A main breaker……so if you use an aircon, toaster and maybe a washing machine at the same time….the breaker trips !!
All about “future” proofing the network for when more EV’s come along !!
She'll be right mate-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/consumer-confidence-in-australia-s-energy-system-suffers-steepest-ever-plunge/ar-AA11fsnD
At least we'll be able to buy solar panels windmills and EVs from you know who-
https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-power-plants-by-country/
cos Xi is a much nicer bloke than Putin :-\
Post by: Bird on September 16, 2022, 10:36:07 AM
https://www.2gb.com/bizarre-electric-car-charging-set-up-in-sydney-street/ (https://www.2gb.com/bizarre-electric-car-charging-set-up-in-sydney-street/)
(https://www.2gb.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2022/09/electric-car-manly-600x400.jpg)
Post by: prodigyrf on September 16, 2022, 03:35:55 PM
Way to go Greeny ::)
Post by: DandyD on September 16, 2022, 04:45:45 PM
LOL!!! hes spethial....
Dalaly told Teslarati. “You just use your hand.”
There’s a word for people who do that.
Post by: Fizzie on September 17, 2022, 07:26:23 AM
bizarre-electric-car-charging-set-up-in-sydney-street
Fairly normal, I would have said ???
There's a bloke just round the corner from us who has his motorhome parked out on the street, & we often see that with exactly the same set-up as this person has.
We've done it ourselves (& I think most van / CT owners will have done the same) - hooked the van up the arvo before leaving & left it outside all night with a power cord connected to keep the fridge cold.
Post by: KevL on September 19, 2022, 05:19:03 PM
When ICE vehicles were first introduced into Australia there were only a few places where fuel could be bought.
They couldn’t pull heavy loads.
They had very little range. Model T had a range of 25-40 miles.
Engines needed constant tinkering to keep ‘em going.
All these problems were quickly overcome as the number of vehicles increased.
The vehicles were improved incrementally.
Vehicles for towing were developed
EV are no different.
Every year, they get longer range
Every year they get bigger
Units suitable for towing are not far away.
Charge facilities are increasing in number every day.
Yet so many seem to think EV’s should have been born fully developed. That chargers should have been installed everywhere before we introduce EV’s.
The next clown that says you can’t tow a caravan with a Tesla should get an uppercut.
You can’t cart 75 head of stock in a turbo diesel hilux either.
I imagine horse and cart drivers had the same conversations 120 yrs ago. They were proved wrong.
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Post by: Steffo1 on September 19, 2022, 05:35:32 PM
Not sure what all the noise is about.
When ICE vehicles were first introduced into Australia there were only a few places where fuel could be bought.
They couldn’t pull heavy loads.
They had very little range. Model T had a range of 25-40 miles.
Engines needed constant tinkering to keep ‘em going.
All these problems were quickly overcome as the number of vehicles increased.
The vehicles were improved incrementally.
Vehicles for towing were developed
EV are no different.
Every year, they get longer range
Every year they get bigger
Units suitable for towing are not far away.
Charge facilities are increasing in number every day.
Yet so many seem to think EV’s should have been born fully developed. That chargers should have been installed everywhere before we introduce EV’s.
The next clown that says you can’t tow a caravan with a Tesla should get an uppercut.
You can’t cart 75 head of stock in a turbo diesel hilux either.
I imagine horse and cart drivers had the same conversations 120 yrs ago. They were proved wrong.
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Umm, I reckon electric motors, batteries and a lot of the relevant technology have been around a long time.
A lot longer than the ICE was, when taking over from Dobbin.
As for the turbo diesel Hilux analogy, you can't and never have been able to, cart much in one!
Post by: KevL on September 19, 2022, 05:39:31 PM
The internal combustion engine was around for a fair bit before the car.
The wheel just a bit longer.
Not sure what any of that proves.
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Post by: Pottsy on September 19, 2022, 05:40:24 PM
Yes EVs are developing and the necessary infrastructure to support them is growing, my concern as a retiree is the cost of purchase. I’ve looked at some of the hybrid options and their ranges are still very limited for anyone who does more than the city commute.
Can we reach the deadlines being set by governments or manufacturers and still use so called” green energy sources” to fulfil all our power requirements without dependency on fossil fuels I think there is still a lot of work to be done.
Solar battery storage and wind farms, will it be enough.
Post by: Steffo1 on September 19, 2022, 06:16:10 PM
Some of the components have been around in various forms for a very long time, just not arranged into a modern motor vehicle.
The internal combustion engine was around for a fair bit before the car.
The wheel just a bit longer.
Not sure what any of that proves.
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Sorry, I shall explain my thoughts. The first "Production" ICE was manufactured in 1876 and the first "Production" vehicle (Mr. Daimler) in 1886. A ten year learning curve.
The first mass produced battery, the Columbia, was out in 1896. The first, proper, massed produced, electric car, with a range of 350 km, was by GM, in 1996. A one hundred year span.
I'm not gainsaying you, just pointing out that the ICE vehicle appears to have been more adaptive, in a shorter time, than the electric vehicle.
Perhaps a matter of efficient benefits over less than efficient commercial and political processes.
Post by: KevL on September 19, 2022, 06:33:22 PM
I believe the difference is all a matter of need.
The shift from horse and cart to motor cars was a huge leap in so many ways.
The range of early vehicles wasn’t great, but it was greater than a horse. And quicker.
The step from ICE to EV isn’t near as big a leap. It’s not a leap at all in fact.
It’s simply evolution.
The support tech will flow quickly.
Battery development will accelerate.
This one area so clear.
The lead acid battery barely changed in 100 yrs. The rapid uptake in personal electronics since the Walkman has seen enormous research and development in batteries.
The growth and Govt mandates on EVs will see this continue.
Need accelerates development.
Consider:
Start of WW2 there were 28 biplane models in use
By the end the first Jets were being tested.
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Post by: Steffo1 on September 19, 2022, 06:38:52 PM
I get where you’re coming from.Redacted ;D
I believe the difference is all a matter of need.
The shift from horse and cart to motor cars was a huge leap in so many ways.
The range of early vehicles wasn’t great, but it was greater than a horse. And quicker.
The step from ICE to EV isn’t near as big a leap. It’s not a leap at all in fact.
It’s simply evolution.
The support tech will flow quickly.
Battery development will accelerate.
This one area so clear.
The lead acid battery barely changed in 100 yrs. The rapid uptake in personal electronics since the Walkman has seen enormous research and development in batteries.
The growth and Govt mandates on EVs will see this continue.
Greed accelerates development.
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Post by: KevL on September 19, 2022, 06:39:51 PM
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Post by: lloydus67 on September 19, 2022, 07:19:10 PM
Sorry, I shall explain my thoughts. The first "Production" ICE was manufactured in 1876 and the first "Production" vehicle (Mr. Daimler) in 1886. A ten year learning curve.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220919/af241d588ed53525e6c98cd9d52e96d5.jpg)
The first mass produced battery, the Columbia, was out in 1896. The first, proper, massed produced, electric car, with a range of 350 km, was by GM, in 1996. A one hundred year span.
I'm not gainsaying you, just pointing out that the ICE vehicle appears to have been more adaptive, in a shorter time, than the electric vehicle.
Perhaps a matter of efficient benefits over less than efficient commercial and political processes.
Maybe not an electric car, but certainly able to carry a couple of ton and 3 passengers, well 2 and a driver.
The electric milk float has been around in the uk since the 50’s it would run from about 2am until about 8am. 6 hours solid load lugging and still capacity to get back to the yard.
Lloyd
Sent from me
Post by: alnjan on September 19, 2022, 07:49:44 PM
Post by: Pottsy on September 19, 2022, 08:58:38 PM
I wonder when the ICE was introduced and with all the talk from the horse and cart brigade, was there a Government in the day mandating the percentage of motor vehicles will be sold compared to horse drawn buggies/carts and sulkies?Yes that’s one of the issues for me, the government mandates and even the financial sector now setting dates where they will no longer provide loans on ICE vehicles etc.
Post by: Fizzie on September 20, 2022, 07:23:06 AM
setting dates where they will no longer provide loans on ICE vehicles etc.
Yep, that's the one that has me a bit concerned ???
We usually keep our cars for 10-15 years, so we'd probably be looking at replacing the Terrorist somewhere around 2030 - that's going to be a absolutely great time to be trading in a diesel powered AWD with a great tow capacity! ::)
Post by: Steffo1 on September 20, 2022, 10:23:09 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220919/af241d588ed53525e6c98cd9d52e96d5.jpg)
Maybe not an electric car, but certainly able to carry a couple of ton and 3 passengers, well 2 and a driver.
The electric milk float has been around in the uk since the 50’s it would run from about 2am until about 8am. 6 hours solid load lugging and still capacity to get back to the yard.
Lloyd
Sent from me
Sort of what I'm getting at. No great improvement on 6 hours, in 70 years, as far as I can see.
I'd love an EV with the same same range as my Landy, but at the moment, considering where I live, any available EV is impractical.
I just think that the whole mandate thing has not been seriously thought through, or addressed, by suitably qualified, engineering type, persons.
Post by: Bird on September 20, 2022, 02:56:18 PM
Quote from: Steffo1
I just think that the whole mandate thing has not been seriously thought throughthats not unusual... its just a vote winning statement...
Post by: Hairs on September 20, 2022, 05:36:27 PM
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: KevL on September 22, 2022, 06:31:11 PM
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/08/10/dethleff-introduces-the-e-home-caravan-a-self-powered-camping-trailer/amp/
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Post by: KevL on September 24, 2022, 07:11:32 AM
I just think that the whole mandate thing has not been seriously thought through
What mandate thing?
As far as I know or can find there are no EV mandates in Australia.
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Post by: Fizzie on September 24, 2022, 07:22:43 AM
Post by: NZMarkb on September 24, 2022, 08:05:19 AM
Not yet, but they're certainly saying no more ICE cars after 2030 (? - may be 2035?)
I'd take a bet that that won't happen 8)
Post by: Steffo1 on September 24, 2022, 08:45:00 AM
What mandate thing?
As far as I know or can find there are no EV mandates in Australia.
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I know it's hard to believe, but the ACT is part of Oz.
Perhaps I should have used the term "Ban" instead of "Mandate", sorry. :)
Post by: KevL on September 24, 2022, 08:53:49 AM
I know it's hard to believe, but the ACT is part of Oz.I’m still not seeing anything mandated or banned.
Perhaps I should have used the term "Ban" instead of "Mandate", sorry. :)
They have a strategy and targets and incentives.
No one is being forced to do anything.
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Post by: paceman on September 24, 2022, 10:51:58 AM
I’m still not seeing anything mandated or banned.The ACT is banning sales of ICE vehicles by 2035.
They have a strategy and targets and incentives.
No one is being forced to do anything.
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Sure sounds like a ban to me.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/official-act-to-ban-ice-cars-from-2035/
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Post by: KevL on September 24, 2022, 11:16:15 AM
A significant number of European countries are banning ICE’s from 2030.
How many companies will still be making ICE’s by 2035?
Keep in mind not all categories of vehicles are included in these plans.
By 2035 will anyone want to buy an ICE vehicle, even if they’re still available?
The capability of vehicles by then will make todays cars look primitive.
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, relax.
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Post by: paceman on September 24, 2022, 11:21:09 AM
There is.
That’s all I was commenting on.
EV’s might get there for city travelling. Regional and rural has a long way to go.
Not to mention Australia’s grid is nowhere near able to handle even a 20-30% increase in EV’s.
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Post by: lukeycat on September 25, 2022, 09:25:20 PM
You said there was no ban coming.Regional vic is pretty impressive when it comes to EV charging stations etc we are in western Victoria near the SA border and the amount of Tesla and other EVs is quite surprising have a family member who has a model 3 Tesla who routinely travels to Melbourne etc without issue, might be a bit harder in other states where the distances are a bit greater but it’s amazing the growth in the last 5 years, most EV owners are not 100% reliant on the grid with home solar etc so the perceived grid pressure is probably not as bad as it’s seems.
There is.
That’s all I was commenting on.
EV’s might get there for city travelling. Regional and rural has a long way to go.
Not to mention Australia’s grid is nowhere near able to handle even a 20-30% increase in EV’s.
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Post by: Hairs on September 26, 2022, 07:41:30 PM
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: gronk on September 26, 2022, 08:40:45 PM
Regional vic is pretty impressive when it comes to EV charging stations etc we are in western Victoria near the SA border and the amount of Tesla and other EVs is quite surprising have a family member who has a model 3 Tesla who routinely travels to Melbourne etc without issue, might be a bit harder in other states where the distances are a bit greater but it’s amazing the growth in the last 5 years, most EV owners are not 100% reliant on the grid with home solar etc so the perceived grid pressure is probably not as bad as it’s seems.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Unless the EV owners are charging during the day, when there is sunlight, and they have solar panels, then grid pressure is not there.
BUT, most charge during the night…or when they come home from work, which if it’s early evening, is when grid pressure will be at it’s greatest.
Post by: prodigyrf on October 05, 2022, 08:48:25 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/ford-needs-insanely-great-evs-because-people-don-t-care-about-going-green/ar-AA12CpFX
As far as budget EVs go it's hard to make a profit on them-
https://evsandbeyond.co.nz/chinese-carmakers-struggling-to-make-profit-off-evs/
Which is no doubt why BYD are targetting Western markets with their world leading blade battery technology-
https://evsandbeyond.co.nz/byd-lifts-prices-for-atto-3-models-ruled-out-for-nz/
That's because they can raise prices as demand for battery resources seriously outstrips supply. That's true to some extent for ICE makers too at present particularly with chip supply as our cars become ever more digitally safer and that gets mandated.(ANCAP ratings aren't all about crash testing now) However with batteries costing the price of making an ICE naturally EVs come in lux spec with all the tech bells and whistles to satisfy upmarket buyers. At some stage that market will plateau and it will be far short of 50% of vehicle sales as no Gummint can subsidize all of us as that's a zero sum game.
Post by: spadge on October 11, 2022, 03:39:04 PM
Post by: Pottsy on October 11, 2022, 05:02:48 PM
Causing the odd issue.
Post by: Bird on October 11, 2022, 05:37:58 PM
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/hurricane-ian-floods-are-causing-electric-vehicles-to-burst-into-flames-200639.html.:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
Causing the odd issue.
Post by: Fizzie on October 12, 2022, 07:25:14 AM
australias-first-ev-ute
"uses a big 88.5kWh battery enabling a claimed, WLTP-rated driving range as high as 330km.
The battery powers a motor with 150kW of power and 310Nm of torque, and the eT60 is only available in 4×2 (rear-wheel drive) guise. It’s also rated to tow up to 1500kg, which is half what the 160kW and 500Nm diesel is rated to haul.
The NZ model’s payload is listed as 750kg, given kerb weight is 2300kg and GVM is 3050kg."
What, as a direct replacement for the Subaru Brumby ??? >:D
Meanwhile: "we get an indicative Australian price of the eT60 of about $70,000 here."
Don't think they're going to sell too many of them ???
Post by: Pottsy on October 19, 2022, 03:10:28 PM
https://www.drive.com.au/news/electric-toyota-hilux-to-cost-close-to-100000/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/electric-toyota-hilux-to-cost-close-to-100000/)
Post by: plusnq on October 20, 2022, 10:14:25 AM
Is it April 1st?
https://www.drive.com.au/news/electric-toyota-hilux-to-cost-close-to-100000/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/electric-toyota-hilux-to-cost-close-to-100000/)
That will be an expensive weekend ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by: Gazza00 on October 20, 2022, 10:45:17 AM
At least it wont be leaking oil everywhere it goes ;D ;D
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-19/electric-motorbike-trip-from-perth-to-sydney-is-australian-first/101546196 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-19/electric-motorbike-trip-from-perth-to-sydney-is-australian-first/101546196)
Post by: Hairs on October 30, 2022, 03:30:35 PM
Hmm, What's that's mean for us here?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-29/eu-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-boost-ev-uptake/101593696 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-29/eu-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-boost-ev-uptake/101593696)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: GeoffA on October 30, 2022, 04:14:31 PM
......
Hmm, What's that's mean for us here?
......
It means we don't buy a new car after 2034....
Post by: Bird on October 30, 2022, 07:08:09 PM
Quote from: Hairs
'European Union bans sale of petrol and diesel cars from 2035 to boost electric vehicle uptake'
Hmm, What's that's mean for us here?
Manure (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-29/eu-ban-new-fossil-fuel-cars-boost-ev-uptake/101593696)
You'd wanna be a car sales man as there'll be a world record amount of cars sold between xmas and new years day 2034
Post by: prodigyrf on November 03, 2022, 02:46:33 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/e2-80-98giant-roadblock-e2-80-99-to-renewable-energy-aspirations-is-e2-80-98minerals-e2-80-99/ar-AA13E0Ml
When the time comes and that becomes bleeding obvious (if it isn't already with predicted power bill rises) then the legislation can be swiftly scrapped by politicians reading the room.
Post by: prodigyrf on November 03, 2022, 03:01:10 PM
http://spectator.com.au/2022/10/gale-force-hypocrisy-german-greens-kill-wind-farm-for-coal-mine/
Full backflip with triple pike. LOL
Post by: Spada on November 04, 2022, 05:28:30 AM
It can't physically happen but it makes for feelgood political posturing at present-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/e2-80-98giant-roadblock-e2-80-99-to-renewable-energy-aspirations-is-e2-80-98minerals-e2-80-99/ar-AA13E0Ml
When the time comes and that becomes bleeding obvious (if it isn't already with predicted power bill rises) then the legislation can be swiftly scrapped by politicians reading the room.
I probably wouldn't give too much credibility to anything being
Post by: GeoffA on November 04, 2022, 06:25:06 AM
I probably wouldn't give too much credibility to anything beingreportedpushed on Fox News, and especially not by Andrew Bolt. That whole channel is agenda driven propaganda.
Same with the ABC....
Post by: Foo on November 05, 2022, 08:57:16 AM
https://youtu.be/SjNxUvgYuUU (https://youtu.be/SjNxUvgYuUU)
Foo
Post by: prodigyrf on November 06, 2022, 10:35:34 PM
I probably wouldn't give too much credibility to anything beingWould you like to dispute the facts his guest presents and point out where he's wrong or like so many engineering/economic illiterati nowadays stick their fingers in their ears and go nananananananana!- https://www.manhattan-institute.org/expert/mark-p-millsreportedpushed on Fox News, and especially not by Andrew Bolt. That whole channel is agenda driven propaganda.
He's a top physicist and as such just can't bring himself to go along with the fairy dust and Groupthink masquerading as science and regurgitated by lamestream media ignorati. Mark his figures the EV wet dream cannot and will not happen as fantasized as lithium battery tech is at the extremes of the Periodic Table now and there aint no more wonder elements lying around in abundance- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodic_table#
Ditch lithium for more abundant elements and the tradeoff is heavier like lead acid NiMh and NiCad in case you've forgottem :'(
Post by: Bird on November 07, 2022, 09:03:33 AM
https://abcnews.go.com/US/hurricane-ian-flood-damage-evs-creating-ticking-time/story?id=91795016 (https://abcnews.go.com/US/hurricane-ian-flood-damage-evs-creating-ticking-time/story?id=91795016)
Post by: prodigyrf on November 07, 2022, 09:31:22 PM
Is it April 1st?
https://www.drive.com.au/news/electric-toyota-hilux-to-cost-close-to-100000/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/electric-toyota-hilux-to-cost-close-to-100000/)
No it'll be tacked on to your rates so your Council can brag they're greening the planet while you buy your own personal warm inner glow or cool runnings supposedly.
Post by: Bird on November 10, 2022, 10:35:45 AM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/sydney-council-warns-residents-against-taking-dangerous-risks-to-charge-evs/news-story/466205a1576c0265d82eab3f2c40e5fc (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/sydney-council-warns-residents-against-taking-dangerous-risks-to-charge-evs/news-story/466205a1576c0265d82eab3f2c40e5fc)
Post by: Bird on November 10, 2022, 05:32:40 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on November 10, 2022, 09:03:12 PM
https://www.bikesales.com.au/bikes/details/2022-energica-ego/OAG-AD-21281813/?Cr=0
There's nothing wrong with EVs and grab yourself a zoom zoom Tesla if you have the readies and off-street charging capability. Just that we have to understand lithium battery tech is now very mature and we've reached economies of scale but now we've run into resource supply constraints pushing up the price faster than ICE cars-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/techandscience/another-affordable-ev-is-suddenly-not-very-affordable-anymore/ar-AA13VRNU
The industry has plumbed the bottom of the cost curve and it's all uphill for EV pricing from here when they're already too dear for most. The physics of energy is nothing like data with the silicon chip following Moore's Law and that's where so many pundits and spruikers were sadly ignorant.
Post by: prodigyrf on November 18, 2022, 10:52:49 AM
https://climate-science.press/2022/11/16/renewable-south-australia-islanded-flying-by-the-seat-of-their-pants-afraid-of-a-solar-surge-on-a-sunny-day/
Currently they're building another interconnector from SA to NSW but what good will that do when NSW and Vic follow the SA lead with unreliables too?
Post by: Bird on November 29, 2022, 02:15:33 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on November 30, 2022, 11:06:21 PM
To put that in perspective, its specification is equivalent to that of the base-model ‘Pro’ combustion version, which now wears a price-tag of $43,148.
Do the math. You could literally have two T60 Max Pros for the same cost as one of these electric versions, given the latter's price premium of $49,842.
To make matters worse, the eT60 is rear-drive only, and with its nearly 90kWh battery pack offers just 330km of driving range, and that’s without being loaded-up.
https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/ldv-et60-88274
Post by: Pottsy on December 02, 2022, 01:32:15 PM
Post by: westvic on December 02, 2022, 08:07:04 PM
Completed my Tesla conversion today!:cup:
Post by: Bad Scott on December 03, 2022, 05:54:28 AM
Completed my Tesla conversion today!Forgot the speed controller ;D
Post by: Robbo on December 03, 2022, 09:44:07 AM
Completed my Tesla conversion today!I think you might need a bigger battery Pottsy. Perhaps a "C" or "D" size would be better and may give you an extra 12 inches of travel.
Sent from my SM-J600G using Tapatalk
Post by: Pottsy on December 03, 2022, 09:45:18 AM
I think you might need a bigger battery Pottsy. Perhaps a "C" or "D" size would be better and may give you an extra 12 inches of travel.
Sent from my SM-J600G using Tapatalk
Wasn’t really planning on going very far!
Post by: prodigyrf on December 03, 2022, 06:24:04 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11494991/Switzerland-BAN-electric-cars-roads-power-shortages.html
Post by: NZMarkb on December 05, 2022, 03:22:03 AM
Wasn’t really planning on going very far!
Well, No you won't it's an electric car !! :laugh: :laugh:
Post by: 2Strokeit on December 06, 2022, 02:21:05 PM
5 of the 2 fire crews standing around the open bonnet of the hybrid while the ice dinosaur is already loaded by the towie.
Maybe the resident sparkys could enlighten us if elecktrickery cars have to wait to have the battery disconnected like when at the panel beaters/mechanics?
Maybe explain the low vs high voltage regs?
Post by: Champin on December 06, 2022, 04:54:42 PM
Sent from my T86 using Tapatalk
Post by: prodigyrf on December 08, 2022, 12:31:41 PM
https://reneweconomy.com.au/lithium-ion-battery-pack-prices-rise-for-first-time-since-2010-hurting-evs-and-storage/
The renewables/EV fan club needs to stop wasting lightweight lithium batteries on stationary grid firming if EV take-up isn’t going to hit the affordability wall.
EVs are dear and about to get dearer on that outlook but lets look at that bang for buck BYD Atto3 small/medium SUV extended range priced at $48801 before ORC in Australia. So on that $151USD/kW it's 60kW battery will cost $13500 AUD ex-factory before shipping profit and GST. Not hard to see why replacement batteries for EVs get quoted around $25k plus installed and that junks the car by then.
EVs are not exactly going to be a big hit out in the country particularly with farmers storing diesel on farm-
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-comparisons/1400km-870-mile-ev-v-diesel-challenge-there-was-just-5-between-them-the-results-were-surprising
And if that wasn't enough you might notice the number of Tesla Model3 cars for sale on Carsales has been steadily climbing lately to 530 at present while Tesla discount new ones in China and the US-
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/tesla/model-3/
Welcome to real depreciation for expensive cars again you'd reasonably expect as the FOMO factor subsides.
Post by: prodigyrf on December 28, 2022, 08:33:16 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/companies/tesla-used-car-price-bubble-pops-weighs-on-new-car-demand/ar-AA15I7gU
All of a sudden there's 720 Teslas for sale on Carsales and 531 of them are Model 3s with predominantly private sellers looking for cash buyers. Welcome to real EV depreciation again which has traditionally been the biggest cost per kilometre. If the repayments were getting on top of you and you were looking for readies in a hurry I'd rather have a hybrid RAV4 than a Model3 for sale.
Post by: Hairs on December 29, 2022, 06:44:35 PM
Tesla chaos strikes: Long Christmas holiday queues for charging station reveals the harsh reality of owning an electric vehicle in Australia
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11580989/Tesla-owners-waiting-large-queue-charging-station-Wodonga-Victoria-NSW-border.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11580989/Tesla-owners-waiting-large-queue-charging-station-Wodonga-Victoria-NSW-border.html)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: NZMarkb on December 30, 2022, 09:46:39 AM
Was this in the New car brochure?
Tesla chaos strikes: Long Christmas holiday queues for charging station reveals the harsh reality of owning an electric vehicle in Australia
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11580989/Tesla-owners-waiting-large-queue-charging-station-Wodonga-Victoria-NSW-border.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11580989/Tesla-owners-waiting-large-queue-charging-station-Wodonga-Victoria-NSW-border.html)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Oh what a pity 8)
Post by: Bird on December 30, 2022, 02:29:00 PM
Was this in the New car brochure?
> with many blasting Australia's lack of electric vehicle infrastructure.
Yea these must be some of the dumbest people on earth.... have they been driving past charging stations every 1klm for 30yrs.... they are everywhere LMAO
Post by: Bird on January 03, 2023, 01:24:50 PM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/tesla-driver-charged-with-driving-while-asleep/news-story/898f407e885f9348b77eafed3da39cad (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/tesla-driver-charged-with-driving-while-asleep/news-story/898f407e885f9348b77eafed3da39cad)
Post by: Hairs on January 03, 2023, 05:58:04 PM
This whole electric snake oil salesman sh1t is the biggest scam on Australians.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: NZMarkb on January 03, 2023, 08:12:12 PM
Just my opinion,
This whole electric snake oil salesman sh1t is the biggest scam on Australians.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
I couldn’t agree more
It’s a bubble that has to burst
And don’t even get me started on all this carbon credit BS
Post by: HEM19X on January 04, 2023, 08:53:38 AM
Post by: Bird on January 04, 2023, 08:55:57 AM
Quote from: HEM19X
Read the other day that there was a 90 min wait at a charging station....Cant wait....
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/tesla-owners-stuck-in-huge-queue-to-charge-their-cars-in-regional-australia/news-story/f10932fbec445c9cda289f28e7e05b68 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/tesla-owners-stuck-in-huge-queue-to-charge-their-cars-in-regional-australia/news-story/f10932fbec445c9cda289f28e7e05b68)
Post by: prodigyrf on January 04, 2023, 01:21:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2L9dm85Zm0
but trust them they're from the Gummint and they're here to help.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 04, 2023, 04:38:46 PM
I popped in to Essendon Toyota (VIC) this morning and was quoted 3 year wait time on a RAV4 Cruiser, with a note that wait times are currently getting worse.
Which is no doubt why this Toyota exec isn't afraid to tell the truth while many are staying quiet-
https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-boss-says-other-industry-executives-secretly-doubt-the-switch-to-electric-power/
While Tesla are now discounting Toyota should be auctioning their high demand hybrids off the line in order to increase profitability and be able to bid the most for their inputs and get more of them into the hands of consumers quicker-
https://www.drive.com.au/news/toyota-australia-mega-pre-delivery-centre/
Post by: Robbo on January 09, 2023, 07:04:22 AM
Post by: WilSurf on January 09, 2023, 11:49:25 AM
Read the other day that there was a 90 min wait at a charging station....
Have you seen the queue when petrol is cheap?
Might not be 90 minutes but sometimes its a long wait
Post by: sparksy on January 11, 2023, 09:51:07 AM
No doubt a made up statistic, but could it come true? ;D ;D
That joke used to be about Jeeps.
Post by: Bird on January 11, 2023, 10:51:07 AM
Have you seen the queue when petrol is cheap?they dont last for hours ;)
Might not be 90 minutes but sometimes its a long wait
Post by: edz on January 11, 2023, 11:49:01 PM
Quote : For those interested, gympie has the last of the Tesla super charger's North of Brisbane, After that it’s the Chargefox network with 50kwh chargers (bout 25 mins to 50 mins depending on what was needed). All up, these took a little longer but the upside is, we got to stop and look around at the towns that we normally blow through.
Wash up for this trip, 4001 kms, 645 kwhs used for a total cost of $161. Less money handed over to international oil companies and gov taxes, more money spent in regional towns sampling restaurants, beers and gifts. Gotta be happy with that!!!
Must admit 4000 km for $161 in fuel cost isnt something to sneeze at .. So long as " time " is not an issue when having to recharge ... Of course towing would throw everthing out of whack too .
Post by: WilSurf on January 12, 2023, 10:42:54 AM
If you are using it to drive to your workplace, plug it in, drive home, do some shopping and plug it in again, there shouldn't be any range anxiety as the battery is always charging when not in use.
It is a different habit then with a fossil fuel car as you only fill up when the tank is empty.
The moment you got that mindset, there is no issue.
I can't wait till prices are dropping, our hybrid is due for replacement.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 17, 2023, 11:33:35 PM
I can't wait till prices are dropping, our hybrid is due for replacement.
I suspect you won't have to wait long as the Tesla Model 3s come off lease and the growing number of private sellers can't move them and the dealers aren't interested for the price- https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/tesla/model-3/?sort=%7ePrice
That list has grown significantly in the last week and it's only a matter of time before Oz Tesla used cars join their cousins in the US with pricing.
Post by: GeoffA on January 18, 2023, 05:21:39 AM
I suspect you won't have to wait long as the Tesla Model 3s come off lease and the growing number of private sellers can't move them and the dealers aren't interested for the price- https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/tesla/model-3/?sort=%7ePrice (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/tesla/model-3/?sort=%7ePrice)
That list has grown significantly in the last week and it's only a matter of time before Oz Tesla used cars join their cousins in the US with pricing.
There's a lot to choose from....
Post by: prodigyrf on January 18, 2023, 08:58:15 AM
There's a lot to choose from....
As Americans are finding waving their hands about-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GT-9_As6qq4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APpCXv67Exw
Same with the batteries for them and why buyers tend to prefer coal fired Chinese manufactured ones for their hard-earned-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/britishvolt-collapse-should-spark-debate-on-whether-it-was-actually-needed/ar-AA16rtKk
Still we did get out of carmaking rather fortuitously leaving Walkinshaw Performance to it while concentrating on mining the new gold like lithium ;D
Post by: DandyD on January 18, 2023, 11:05:39 AM
That list has grown significantly in the last week and it's only a matter of time before Oz Tesla used cars join their cousins in the US with pricing.
Already happened in the UK…
Used Tesla prices continue to tank in January as experts assess big impact of new price drop
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/used-tesla-prices-continue-to-tank-in-january-as-experts-assess-big-impact-of-new-price-drop/277749 (https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/used-tesla-prices-continue-to-tank-in-january-as-experts-assess-big-impact-of-new-price-drop/277749)
Post by: prodigyrf on January 18, 2023, 10:03:52 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/big-demand-for-electric-utes-in-1bn-deal/ar-AA16t4X8
Seems I might have been a bit hasty calling the LDV pricey-
https://www.drive.com.au/news/2023-ldv-et60-price-and-specs/
Get onboard with a novated lease to change the weather and don't be like that Gazza- https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/green-dreams-of-the-left-creating-nightmares-for-people/ar-AA16sYug
Post by: WilSurf on January 19, 2023, 12:17:11 PM
I suspect you won't have to wait long as the Tesla Model 3s come off lease and the growing number of private sellers can't move them and the dealers aren't interested for the price- https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/tesla/model-3/?sort=%7ePrice
That list has grown significantly in the last week and it's only a matter of time before Oz Tesla used cars join their cousins in the US with pricing.
Still a lot of money $50k.
Post by: DandyD on January 20, 2023, 03:16:13 AM
https://www.drive.com.au/news/wyoming-electric-car-ban-overturned/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/wyoming-electric-car-ban-overturned/)
Post by: prodigyrf on January 20, 2023, 02:58:42 PM
Still a lot of money $50k.
Yes $50k cash buyers don't grow on trees but usually want finance and have a trade-in and that spells Dealers who don't appear to be enthusiastic selling at those prices. With car finance at 8-9% there are shrinking qualifiers and with Tesla slashing new prices used Dealers are clearly cautious about where used prices will settle. The real question is has Tesla satiated much of the lux EV sedan market and got too far ahead of themselves with factory capacity?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/companies/analysis-tesla-uses-its-profits-as-a-weapon-in-an-ev-price-war/ar-AA16wJRe
The Model 3 is now six going on seven years old and a bit boring for those who can afford the latest and greatest. At least they'd like to chop it in on the newer SUV version or await a Cybertruck perhaps but you suspect they're getting clobbered with real lux depreciation for their trade-ins at present. Give it a bash privately on Carsales then?
Has been an amazing car and I am very sad to see it go, but unfortunately it won’t tow a caravan.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2019-tesla-model-3-standard-range-plus-auto/SSE-AD-14140212/?Cr=0
Much happier and more amazing with the asking readies no doubt.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 27, 2023, 12:02:25 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/australian-government-trying-to-tax-non-electric-cars-out-of-existence/ar-AA16KVFH
and the latest from my electricity provider-
https://email-view.campaign.marketing/origin/e99365db-70bf-43f4-8368-71a911219931/
or perhaps just their video if you're a recent product of our education system-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VnTKtRSTqc
Not a problem for the son and his tradey mates as they'll just pass all their DC ute costs and any charging downtime on. Adds to inflation but I suppose it gives the suits at the RBA something to do jacking up interest rates again. Trust the circular economy in capable hands while changing the weather :cup:
Post by: prodigyrf on February 01, 2023, 08:21:10 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/toyota-calls-on-science-to-tell-ev-only-extremists-that-they-re-wrong/ar-AA16Yryt
"What has to change is that we have to mature a little bit, and we have to stop doing wishful thinking," he said. "A real discussion is that these are the constraints in the development of resources in the world, both material resources and charging infrastructure and renewable power… If that is true, how do we reduce the total amount of carbon dioxide that will accumulate? That is a mature discussion, not a kind of dream discussion."
Batteries and External Combustion Engines aren't all they're cracked up to be-
https://insideevs.com/features/645302/free-electric-vehicle-charging-sucks/
Post by: Hairs on February 17, 2023, 12:35:31 PM
That's going to cost some, Hmm
https://www.9news.com.au/national/tesla-recalling-nearly-363000-vehicles-equipped-with-full-selfdriving/5201a24c-7aff-44ee-bf08-b9a2c8e3cdb2 (https://www.9news.com.au/national/tesla-recalling-nearly-363000-vehicles-equipped-with-full-selfdriving/5201a24c-7aff-44ee-bf08-b9a2c8e3cdb2)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Pottsy on February 17, 2023, 02:33:26 PM
"Tesla recalls over 300,000 vehicles in the US equipped with 'Full Self-Driving"
That's going to cost some, Hmm
https://www.9news.com.au/national/tesla-recalling-nearly-363000-vehicles-equipped-with-full-selfdriving/5201a24c-7aff-44ee-bf08-b9a2c8e3cdb2 (https://www.9news.com.au/national/tesla-recalling-nearly-363000-vehicles-equipped-with-full-selfdriving/5201a24c-7aff-44ee-bf08-b9a2c8e3cdb2)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
I reckon Tesla would have to be one of the most recalled brands on the planet
Post by: edz on February 18, 2023, 01:01:38 PM
So quiet you can hear the diff bearings change tone under load and off load ;D
Post by: Robbo on February 18, 2023, 05:52:27 PM
Work stepped us into a new EV, my dailey driver..$14 k of cheap chinese tin and plastic So quiet compared to the 20 yro smokey joe ICE powered one ..Interesting edz, what sort of work do you do with it and is it up to the task? Looks cool though. Cheers
So quiet you can hear the diff bearings change tone under load and off load ;D
Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk
Post by: Fizzie on February 19, 2023, 06:37:59 AM
So quiet you can hear the diff bearings change tone under load and off load ;D
"Under load" ???
That means the second person ??? >:D
Post by: edz on February 19, 2023, 10:01:50 PM
As for the diff bearings ....Theyre a bit noisy on accelleration / decelleration, well to me they are .... Next test will be to see how waterproof all the lectrics are when we get lotas of rain to play in..Already warned the boss I reckon the dash will fritz itself and take out everything, Dosnt want me to put a cover over it ...So we will see .
Post by: Robbo on February 19, 2023, 11:39:31 PM
Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk
Post by: Gazza00 on February 20, 2023, 02:53:45 PM
Post by: edz on February 21, 2023, 04:09:46 PM
Hey edz, thanks for reply. Interesting assessment. So i'm guessing you would'nt highly recommend it. I like the look of it and can think of several uses for it but long term lasting and reliability could perhaps be an issue based on your opinion. Cheers
Sent from my SM-A226B using Tapatalk
Like anything you would need to see it for yourself and form your own opinion of it ..
Like its new, it goes all right and all ...But for 14K is a lot of dough and how cheaply built this thing is .... For me I cant see 14K in it or longevity ..
Post by: GeoffA on February 21, 2023, 04:47:13 PM
... For me I cant see 14K in it ..
That goes for most things, doesn't it??
Post by: prodigyrf on February 24, 2023, 04:10:22 PM
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/02/23/mark-mills-the-energy-transition-delusion-inescapable-mineral-realities/
Well unless you believe we should all be retreating to the age before the steam engine perhaps.
Post by: Fizzie on February 26, 2023, 08:41:32 AM
https://poletopoleev.com/ (https://poletopoleev.com/)
Post by: Rowlie on February 26, 2023, 09:26:57 AM
Here's one that will be worth keeping an eye on!Yeah but they're starting at the North Pole and heading to the South Pole. Its all downhill duh !!!
https://poletopoleev.com/ (https://poletopoleev.com/)
Post by: Fizzie on February 27, 2023, 07:10:10 AM
Also noticed from their site "With predicted temperatures ranging from -30?C to 30?C"
Ah, so they won't be driving in hot weather! ;D >:D
Although they do also make mention of "soaring temperatures at the equator" and "hot and humid jungles of South America" ??? ::) >:D
Post by: edz on February 28, 2023, 02:59:36 PM
Post by: l0ckym on March 01, 2023, 06:35:30 AM
If you believe we can transition to net zero CO2 emissions by 2050 you are as utterly delusional as our current elites and political leaders. Physicist Mark Mills explains fairly simply and graphically why that is-
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/02/23/mark-mills-the-energy-transition-delusion-inescapable-mineral-realities/
Well unless you believe we should all be retreating to the age before the steam engine perhaps.
Agree, but doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Post by: GeoffA on March 01, 2023, 06:54:31 AM
Agree, but doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
So we should destroy our economy in the pointless pursuit of an ideal??
I don't understand the logic of that....
Post by: l0ckym on March 01, 2023, 08:29:44 AM
So we should destroy our economy in the pointless pursuit of an ideal??
I don't understand the logic of that....
I think the market will do it anyway.
Especially compared to the cost of coal (and the insurance costs for coal companies).
Everyone wants Free Market Economics - until it doesn't deliver their ideology.
Post by: Bird on March 01, 2023, 08:43:04 AM
So we should destroy our economy in the pointless pursuit of an ideal??Shut down all the power stations... with nothing to replace them with....
I don't understand the logic of that....
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e3/f6/80/e3f6807852952d5f7992dbe766a3a289.jpg)
Post by: Bird on March 08, 2023, 12:41:24 PM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/man-fined-for-using-council-power-to-charge-evehicle/news-story/da518b66f48cd6fba7a16ae2b876eb06 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/man-fined-for-using-council-power-to-charge-evehicle/news-story/da518b66f48cd6fba7a16ae2b876eb06)
Trip Ended, EV Totaled? Three Real-Life Mishaps
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43065558/ev-charging-station-broken-what-happens-next/ (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43065558/ev-charging-station-broken-what-happens-next/)
Post by: NZMarkb on March 08, 2023, 03:03:23 PM
hahahahahahahahahahahhahaha
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/man-fined-for-using-council-power-to-charge-evehicle/news-story/da518b66f48cd6fba7a16ae2b876eb06 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/man-fined-for-using-council-power-to-charge-evehicle/news-story/da518b66f48cd6fba7a16ae2b876eb06)
Trip Ended, EV Totaled? Three Real-Life Mishaps
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43065558/ev-charging-station-broken-what-happens-next/ (https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43065558/ev-charging-station-broken-what-happens-next/)
Just another example that electric car drivers are just bludgers wanting the rest of us to subsidise them
Post by: prodigyrf on March 08, 2023, 09:37:00 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/sport/other/france-prohibits-electric-vehicle-greenwashing-in-2023/ar-AA18l0Uv
and that's when they're only being charged with direct renewable power which our grids are a long way off as you can see here every night with the 'fuel mix' tab-
https://www.aemo.com.au/Energy-systems/Electricity/National-Electricity-Market-NEM/Data-NEM/Data-Dashboard-NEM
When fossil fuel generation sits around 70-85% now every night without solar you wonder when all those mooted EVs are going to be charging up on net zero at night. Fantasmagorical is the word I'm looking for.
Post by: Bird on March 09, 2023, 09:14:19 AM
wait for the nomads with their 600 series cruisers and 12 batteries....
Just another example that electric car drivers are just bludgers wanting the rest of us to subsidise them
Post by: edz on March 29, 2023, 04:21:20 PM
Post by: Pottsy on March 29, 2023, 05:15:38 PM
https://www.facebook.com/ian.cobb.7/posts/pfbid02YzpeKTa6wvkiYmJ4Kjie92TKtykS6oHcoxgqWs5f48KkhBZMJrRTqQiBGhBPcUN8l (https://www.facebook.com/ian.cobb.7/posts/pfbid02YzpeKTa6wvkiYmJ4Kjie92TKtykS6oHcoxgqWs5f48KkhBZMJrRTqQiBGhBPcUN8l)how stiffs the bloke on the rebound!
Post by: Fizzie on March 30, 2023, 06:54:29 AM
& was that a gas cylinder of some sort ???
Post by: lloydus67 on March 30, 2023, 09:49:18 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230329/13d6a1bd7ac6d4d88c4b5a53cc947115.jpg)
Sent from me
Post by: Fizzie on April 19, 2023, 10:29:45 AM
"The three focus areas for the government are the supply of EVs, the systems and infrastructure needed to support uptake, and demand from drivers for them.
there are six expected outcomes — a greater choice of EVs, a reduction in transport emissions, increasing ease of charging EVs nationally, an increase in local manufacturing and recycling of materials, making EVs more affordable and making it cheaper for people to run their vehicles."
Which all sounds great, but
"As expected the other key pillar of the strategy is the plan to introduce a fuel efficiency standard, which requires car makers to meet certain emissions limits for their entire fleet or else face penalties."
I hope they don't then start cracking down on older cars to get them off the road ASAP ??? ::) :'( >:(
& I still want to hear about the 'leccie car with ~3t tow capacity & 500k range ???
Post by: Bird on April 19, 2023, 11:30:35 AM
Quote from: Fizzie
I hope they don't then start cracking down on older cars to get them off the road ASAP ??? ::) :'( >:(Cant see that happening - yet...
not everyone has 50+,000 layin round doing nothing to buy a car that doesnt suit their needs.
Quote
& I still want to hear about the 'leccie car with ~3t tow capacity & 500k range ???agree! and good offroad abilities.
Post by: Fizzie on April 19, 2023, 01:15:43 PM
Cant see that happening - yet...
not everyone has 50+,000 layin round doing nothing to buy a car that doesnt suit their needs.
Problem is the pollies don't realise that, because they do have those $$$ handy >:(
Quote
agree! and good offroad abilities.
Thought about that bit afterwards!
Post by: Bird on April 19, 2023, 02:45:05 PM
Quote from: Fizzie
Problem is the pollies don't realise that, because they do have those $$$ handy >:(its the same overseas as it is here... rich ****s in charge so far out of touch with the average person or retiree..
'... UK Prime Minister Rishi Sunak's wife, Akshata Murty, lost about $91 million on Monday (Tuesday AEDT) after shares in the Indian technology company founded by her father fell sharply. She has a 0.93 per cent stake in the software company, Infosys, worth approximately $1 billion'
Post by: Fizzie on April 20, 2023, 03:13:43 PM
"Queensland has set a target for half of new car sales to be zero emissions by 2030, and the ACT has a target for 80 to 90 per cent of new car sales to be zero emissions by that time"
That's not very long to come up with EVs that can actually do the job that people want / need them to do, or for prices to drop to the reasonable level :'(
Post by: Bird on April 20, 2023, 04:15:14 PM
Quote from: Fizzie
That's not very long to come up with EVs that can actually do the job that people want / need them to do
Do you think that even enters their heads? In their pea sized minds people only drive 10 klms to work and back... Pack of AAA's will do.
Be seen to be doing something... doesnt matter if its right or wrong.. your only in power few years till you get the arse and your super and cushy gig overseas somewhere on more money than you or me have earned :(
Post by: prodigyrf on April 23, 2023, 01:56:02 AM
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-mitsubishi-says-plug-in-hybrids-are-better-than-evs-for-the-environment-even-though-it
Post by: Black174 on April 23, 2023, 06:11:35 PM
I have a Tesla Model 3 performance and a Landcruiser 76, pre-DFP.
I drove both from Queensland to Victoria when I relocated.
People are dreaming if they believe 50% of new cars will be electric in 2030.
No real Ute with battery will survive a corrugated trip to Birdsville, I do not even mention cross the Simpson.
New car sale is like voting, the people will decided where to spend their money or vote.
If I have to choose between my Tesla and Landcruiser, the Landcruiser will win everyday.
Post by: Harbourmaster on April 23, 2023, 08:43:21 PM
Post by: Fizzie on April 24, 2023, 07:05:54 AM
People are dreaming if they believe 50% of new cars will be electric in 2030.
No argument from me!, I'm just quoting what the Powers-That-Be are saying ???
Mind you, 2030 is 7 years away so that's 2-3 elections, both State & Federal, so who knows what the current crop of pollies then will think ??? ::)
Post by: GGV8Cruza on April 24, 2023, 07:27:06 AM
Talking to a bloke I know from Adelaide on Friday, a new apartment block of 30 something units ranging from $1 mill to $9.5 for the penthouse, so an up market build they want to put quick chargers in for everyone's EVs. They are only allowed 15 because there isn't enough electricity to go round. Infrastructure is going to be a problem.
Thats the least of their worries, if they all turn on the A/C in the apartment they will be in trouble, let alone charging the EV Porche. Common problem in every apartment block I have built in the last 15 years
GG
Post by: DandyD on April 29, 2023, 08:58:10 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12018617/Mercedes-Benz-dealer-charges-electric-vehicle-owner-oil-change.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12018617/Mercedes-Benz-dealer-charges-electric-vehicle-owner-oil-change.html)
Post by: Black174 on April 29, 2023, 10:34:44 AM
I took my Tesla for its first 'service' last month, bought it new in Sept 2019.
So, 3.5 years till first services.
Only took it in to replace the 12 volt small battery under warranty.
They checked all systems, balance, rotate and align tyres and the service cost me $250.
Not bad given I drove 34,000 km over 3.5 years with a total service cost of $250.
Post by: Hairs on April 30, 2023, 01:01:15 PM
That is funny, but then the Dealers will do anything to charge you for crap.
I took my Tesla for its first 'service' last month, bought it new in Sept 2019.
So, 3.5 years till first services.
Only took it in to replace the 12 volt small battery under warranty.
They checked all systems, balance, rotate and align tyres and the service cost me $250.
Not bad given I drove 34,000 km over 3.5 years with a total service cost of $250.
Just curious,
What did it cost in Electric charging to travel 34000km's?
Or $$ per KW's per 1000k's
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Black174 on April 30, 2023, 05:41:35 PM
I have a Tesla Powerwall and Solar at my home in Queensland.
I worked out that if I chare the Tesla between 10am and 3pm my solar and Powerwall will fully charge it without using main power.
I do not have the same setup in Victoria and use the Tesla Supercharge network.
Cost about $20 to charge from 20% to 80% and it takes 45mins. I can drive about 380km to go from 80% down to 20%.
I use the Tesla Supercharger at Moonee Ponds since I can then do my shopping while the Tesla charge. I very seldom had to wait for a spot or completed my shopping and wait for the charge to reach 80%.
Very cheap to charge, convenient located super charger (for me) but I will still take the Landcruiser over the Tesla every day.
Post by: prodigyrf on May 08, 2023, 09:51:04 AM
Yep that's startup for you alright with $100k AUD loss per car when you can currently buy the Great Wall treclic ute here for $93k. So much for any thought of e-Holdens in Oz as we got right out of taxpayer slush funded carmaking very fortuitously.
Yes a Tesla is cheap on refuelling and servicing but the catch as flippers and leasers are finding with their 2019 Model3s with 60k average kms on the clock is they're struggling not to lose $20k in depreciation while looking wistfully at 2019 RAV4 hybrid prices. Well if shelling out $93k+ORC for a Chinese EV ute doesn't float your boat with an eye on EV depreciation then here's a truck boss enlightening US Congress dreamers fantasising about switching the industry to e-semis- https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/05/06/a-heavy-dose-of-reality-for-electric-truck-mandates/
Welcome to California Dreaming in Canberra at present.
Post by: Bird on May 08, 2023, 10:37:31 AM
https://www.kcra.com/article/elk-grove-father-says-hes-grateful-to-be-alive-after-tesla-catches-fire-near-highway-99/43816716 (https://www.kcra.com/article/elk-grove-father-says-hes-grateful-to-be-alive-after-tesla-catches-fire-near-highway-99/43816716)
Post by: Brij on May 09, 2023, 06:17:09 AM
Currently no endorsed procedures for extinguishing EV fires.
Pump on heaps of water to protect exposures, and repeat...............
If no exposures, may as well let it burn. At least if fully burnt out can't reignite, and not polluting waterways with contaminated water runoff.
Post by: prodigyrf on May 09, 2023, 02:53:25 PM
So MOL are saying no thanks to carrying used EVs-
https://www.thedrive.com/news/45112/car-shipping-giant-bans-used-evs-after-felicity-ace-sinking
and ultimately EV battery thermal runaway fire risk will show up with insurance premiums as well as the cost of doing business with them-
https://lloydslist.maritimeintelligence.informa.com/LL1141339/New-vessel-type-could-be-needed-to-carry-electric-vehicles
Post by: prodigyrf on May 10, 2023, 02:41:04 PM
Australia also needs new policies to roll out vehicle chargers and put pressure on electric car prices, they say, and should recruit celebrities and sports stars to create the "biggest public mobilisation the nation has ever seen".
The recommendations come from a group of experts
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/calls-for-petrol-ban-to-speed-up-electric-swap/ar-AA1aXVG2
Seems there's too many ignorant trogs and not enough experts in these matters so that has to change :4x4:
Post by: Bird on May 10, 2023, 02:56:22 PM
Quote from: prodigyrf
One in four new cars bought by Australians could be electric as early as 2025
bullShit.
Post by: Black174 on May 10, 2023, 04:43:43 PM
Must be an April Fools joke
Prodigurf raised a good point about depreciation, so I did a quick comparison using the Redbook.
2019 Tesla Model 3 Performance Auto AWD
When New $99,869
Average km 80,000
Trade-in $57,875 (42%)
Private $65,425 (34%)
2019 Audi S4 Auto quattro MY19
When New $99,900
Average km 55,000
Trade-in $59,750 (40%)
Private $67,350 (33%)
2019 Mercedes-Benz C-Class C43 AMG Auto 4MATIC
When New $108,241
Average km 55,000
Trade-in $67,825 (37%)
Private $75,925 (30%)
2019 BMW 3 Series M340i xDrive G20 Auto 4wd
When New $99,900
Average km 55,000
Trade-in $63,750 (36%)
Private $71,550 (28%)
Interesting comparison for me
1. The average km for the petrol vehicle are well below the Tesla
2. BMW holding value. I always thought that Merc will hold better than BMW
3. Yes, Tesla depreciation is higher but not that bad
Post by: lloydus67 on May 11, 2023, 10:47:12 AM
Sent from me
Post by: Bird on May 11, 2023, 12:40:47 PM
Over 4 years may not be to bad, give it another 3-4 and do the same comparison as batteries come towards end of life.Also Redbook isnt as accurate as it used to be.
Sent from me
Post by: Black174 on May 11, 2023, 01:15:58 PM
Tesla
Number for sale 22
Average km 54,826
Average price $74,096 (26%)
Audi
Number for sale 3
Average km 43,154
Average price $72,962 (27%)
Merc
Number for sale 18
Average km 52,482
Average price $84,429 (22%)
BMW
Number for sale 6
Average km 32,520
Average price $83,308 (17%)
Post by: prodigyrf on May 13, 2023, 11:49:08 AM
https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/2019-tesla-model-3-standard-range-plus-auto/SPOT-ITM-523036?Cr=6
https://www.redbook.com.au/cars/details/2019-toyota-rav4-cruiser-auto-efour/SPOT-ITM-551472?Cr=1
Depreciation is always by far the biggest chunk of any cents per km running cost calculation when comparing vehicle choices but you wants to play you gots to pay-
https://www.racv.com.au/royalauto/transport/cars/car-running-costs-survey.html
Post by: DandyD on May 13, 2023, 07:56:19 PM
I suspect this will be the same for all RHD countries.
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/tesla-halts-sale-of-right-hand-drive-cars-in-uk-with-immediate-effect/284168 (https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/tesla-halts-sale-of-right-hand-drive-cars-in-uk-with-immediate-effect/284168)
Post by: Black174 on May 13, 2023, 09:52:50 PM
Similar to the Toyota stopping the Landcruiser 70.
Post by: GeoffA on May 14, 2023, 07:25:49 AM
Post by: prodigyrf on May 15, 2023, 11:18:37 PM
https://reneweconomy.com.au/california-duck-curve-now-a-canyon-as-grid-load-vanishes-in-the-midday-sun/
Well not unless you've paid for a whole heap of extra grid battery to store up the duck curve plus losses in order to charge by moonlight you will. They'd have to all be slow AC chargers unless you were playing musical cars at smoko and lunchtime with less superchargers. Whatever they've got that all worked out in Canberra by whenever they set net zero.
Post by: Bird on May 16, 2023, 10:12:01 AM
Tesla halts sale of right-hand-drive X and S models in UK with immediate effectoh darn. :D :4x4:
I suspect this will be the same for all RHD countries.
https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/tesla-halts-sale-of-right-hand-drive-cars-in-uk-with-immediate-effect/284168 (https://cardealermagazine.co.uk/publish/tesla-halts-sale-of-right-hand-drive-cars-in-uk-with-immediate-effect/284168)
Post by: Black174 on May 16, 2023, 04:29:50 PM
I'm shattered....
I was also shattered, hoping to trade my LC76 in for a new one before the V8 is discontinued but sounds like the V8 will live on.
Post by: prodigyrf on May 31, 2023, 06:06:14 PM
https://insideevs.com/news/669752/rich-rebuilds-rivian-r1t-damage-repair-cost/
That's USD and although Teslas may have separate panels there is their alloy gigacasting that could cost dearly.
Post by: prodigyrf on July 04, 2023, 09:07:43 AM
and on Carsales here there's a lot of 2019 Tesla M3s not moving as early adopters work out they have to take a $26k plus haircut now to sell.
EV FOMO is definitely dead and buried and 9% car loans has certainly shifted consumers back to total cost of ownership again.
Post by: Bird on July 27, 2023, 05:10:59 PM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/huge-ship-fire-off-dutch-coast-blamed-on-electric-vehicle/news-story/659c11d3cb257523ffd9413275f2a42c (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/huge-ship-fire-off-dutch-coast-blamed-on-electric-vehicle/news-story/659c11d3cb257523ffd9413275f2a42c)
Post by: NZMarkb on July 28, 2023, 05:22:21 AM
They double as heaters... Bad Scott... challenge is on... Lets see if you can beat this fire.... :D
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/huge-ship-fire-off-dutch-coast-blamed-on-electric-vehicle/news-story/659c11d3cb257523ffd9413275f2a42c (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/huge-ship-fire-off-dutch-coast-blamed-on-electric-vehicle/news-story/659c11d3cb257523ffd9413275f2a42c)
Another one, this is the 3rd ship that I've heard of
The shipping company's will stop carrying them soon, of insurance will price them out
Post by: Fizzie on July 28, 2023, 06:52:46 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2023-07-27/heres-when-used-second-hand-electric-vehicles-evs-get-affordable/102610276 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2023-07-27/heres-when-used-second-hand-electric-vehicles-evs-get-affordable/102610276)
Still no mention of the EV that can tow a 2.5t van at highway speed, with 450k range though :-\ (& that's what the Terrorist will do! ;D 8))
Post by: Bird on July 28, 2023, 10:12:54 AM
Quote from: NZMarkb
The shipping company's will stop carrying them soon, of insurance will price them out
Hope so... then things can get back to normal...
Post by: Hairs on July 28, 2023, 04:25:37 PM
Hope so... then things can get back to normal...Define normal ;)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Brij on July 28, 2023, 06:30:45 PM
But if electric heating, cooking is so much cheaper than natural gas why does government have to force the change?
Post by: DandyD on July 28, 2023, 06:34:10 PM
Cardiff Council has confirmed it has been using diesel generators to charge some of its electric bin lorries. The local authority has been using Dennis Eagle eCollect electric waste collection vehicles since 2021 to further transition its fleet away from diesel and to aid its mission to achieve net zero carbon emissions by 2030.
(https://i2-prod.walesonline.co.uk/incoming/article27002767.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/20230119_112156.jpg)
Post by: Hairs on July 28, 2023, 06:43:31 PM
Every day, there is a new electrical device, appliance that needs electricity, and the push for electric vehicles.
Sure, energy efficiency has come leaps & bounds, but I can't get our 21 year old to turn a light off when he leaves a room. ??
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Gandalf the White on July 28, 2023, 07:20:51 PM
All the push to go Green, Am I stating the obvious?been thinking along the same lines……compared to when we were kids/teenagers/young adults etc, the amount of electricity we used growing up compared to today’s homes in my mind is chalk and cheese. Driving through McMansion suburbs here is Mordor Mexico Victoria the amount of homes lit up like 7/11 petrol stations is staggering and dare I say wasteful and yet there appears to be this inherent attitude that it’s ok to leave the split system air conditioning / heating & lights on 24/7…
Every day, there is a new electrical device, appliance that needs electricity, and the push for electric vehicles.
Sure, energy efficiency has come leaps & bounds, but I can't get our 21 year old to turn a light off when he leaves a room. ??
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Hairs on July 28, 2023, 07:42:39 PM
Ok, there is the knock on the glass door to see what's inside, I get that, cold air not falling out while people stare at what's in the fridge.
Well this sucker was WiFi connected, you can change the outside to match your decor.
While connected to your phone, it will read what mood you are in and change the colour of the inside, & play music to calm you, Like WTF.
So people will be charging cars, powering a 'Smart' home, auto temperature controlled, charging devices.
As power increases in cost.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: prodigyrf on July 28, 2023, 11:44:25 PM
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2020-tesla-model-3-standard-range-plus-auto/SSE-AD-14689409/?Cr=0 (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2020-tesla-model-3-standard-range-plus-auto/SSE-AD-14689409/?Cr=0)
EVs really save you money :'(
Post by: Fizzie on July 29, 2023, 07:03:38 AM
electric bin lorries
Noticed on the photo what's written on the truck windscreen: "Warning, Workers at rear"
So they obviously still have actual garbo's, that pick your rubbish bin up, & empty it into the truck!
When was the last time you saw one of them ???
I'm guessing late 70s - early-mid 80s ???
Post by: DandyD on July 30, 2023, 07:53:53 AM
Noticed on the photo what's written on the truck windscreen: "Warning, Workers at rear"
So they obviously still have actual garbo's, that pick your rubbish bin up, & empty it into the truck!
When was the last time you saw one of them ???
I'm guessing late 70s - early-mid 80s ???
All they do is wheel wheelie bins to the rear. All the lifting and emptying is automated.
I did a stint as an old school bin man in the early 80s. I’ve never been so fit in my life.
Post by: Bird on July 30, 2023, 11:28:09 AM
Noticed on the photo what's written on the truck windscreen: "Warning, Workers at rear"back then you'd end up finding ya bin 10 houses down the road and the bin lid in another postcode... LOL
So they obviously still have actual garbo's, that pick your rubbish bin up, & empty it into the truck!
When was the last time you saw one of them ???
I'm guessing late 70s - early-mid 80s ???
Post by: GeoffA on July 30, 2023, 11:44:45 AM
back then you'd end up finding ya bin 10 houses down the road and the bin lid in another postcode... LOL
...and we'd give 'em half a dozen stubbies at Christmas in gratitude...
Post by: prodigyrf on July 30, 2023, 11:47:58 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/why-used-electric-car-prices-are-falling-faster/ar-AA1ewV3B (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/why-used-electric-car-prices-are-falling-faster/ar-AA1ewV3B)
Welcome to real depreciation again which has always been the biggest contributor to cents per km cost and 9% car finance rates won't be helping the cause.
Post by: duggie on July 30, 2023, 03:09:20 PM
Post by: Pottsy on July 30, 2023, 05:15:35 PM
Post by: GeoffA on July 30, 2023, 05:48:20 PM
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/registration-fees/zlev-road-user-charge (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/registration-fees/zlev-road-user-charge)
Post by: shanegtr on July 30, 2023, 05:56:27 PM
What I would like to know is what and how does a EV owner help pay for road repair/works . The tax on fuel helps with this cost so where will the money come from if everyone is driving EV cars and trucks . The rego in queensland for a EV car is the same as a 4 cylinder so the EV rego wont pay the cost .If all the fuel tax revenue went back to maintaining/upgrading our roads then we'd have much better roads to drive on. As its stands it just goes straight into general revenue.
Quick google search federal level:
transport infrastructure spending, including infrastructure spending on roads ($5.6 billion in 2019-20) and rail transport ($1.0 billion in 2019–20)
Australian motorists will pay over $13.7 billion in net fuel excise this financial year(2021-22), and $60.1 billion over the next four years (2022-23 to 2025-26), as forecasted in the October 2022 Federal budget. For a typical household, this year’s fuel excise bill will be $1,210
Post by: Hairs on July 30, 2023, 05:57:51 PM
If all the fuel tax revenue went back to maintaining/upgrading our roads then we'd have much better roads to drive on. As its stands it just goes straight into general revenue.Agree.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: GeoffA on July 30, 2023, 06:01:14 PM
That didn't last long either.....
Post by: DandyD on July 30, 2023, 06:55:55 PM
back then you'd end up finding ya bin 10 houses down the road and the bin lid in another postcode... LOL
If you found it at all. On my first day I dropped one in the back of the wagon. It was a heavy bastard made out of half inch boiler plate riveted together but it still got chomped up like a bean tin.
Post by: prodigyrf on July 31, 2023, 12:22:23 AM
Be prepared for a yearly kilometre based road tax, similar to what they have in NZ possibly.We could scrap it all for level playing field 'green' pneumatic tyre taxation-
https://www.team-bhp.com/news/tyre-pollution-rise-due-evs-says-new-study (https://www.team-bhp.com/news/tyre-pollution-rise-due-evs-says-new-study)
That would certainly kill hooning stone dead but you'd really wince with a blowout or staking a tyre :'(
Post by: Fizzie on July 31, 2023, 07:06:12 AM
What I would like to know is what and how does a EV owner help pay for road repair/works . The tax on fuel helps with this cost so where will the money come from if everyone is driving EV cars and trucks . The rego in queensland for a EV car is the same as a 4 cylinder so the EV rego wont pay the cost .
If all the fuel tax revenue went back to maintaining/upgrading our roads then we'd have much better roads to drive on. As its stands it just goes straight into general revenue.
Quick google search federal level:
transport infrastructure spending, including infrastructure spending on roads ($5.6 billion in 2019-20) and rail transport ($1.0 billion in 2019–20)
Australian motorists will pay over $13.7 billion in net fuel excise this financial year(2021-22), and $60.1 billion over the next four years (2022-23 to 2025-26), as forecasted in the October 2022 Federal budget. For a typical household, this year’s fuel excise bill will be $1,210
Putting these two together, doing a quick search & punching some buttons ...
Apparently there are just over 20 million cars / light vehicles in Oz. $5.6 billion spent on roads / 20 million "cars" = $280 p.a. / car.
As of 1/7/23 Qld EV rego is $716.05, broken down into Registration $283.55, Traffic improvement fee $62.90, CTP $369.60.
So if they actually spent rego & TI on roads, you're pretty well covered.
Post by: Bird on July 31, 2023, 01:06:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ9-mW-cmdE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ9-mW-cmdE)
Post by: prodigyrf on July 31, 2023, 05:41:39 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsO--Z2d2E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEsO--Z2d2E)
Don’t forget your life jacket with whistle and winky light of course and look out for others bobbing around before you with 30 metre plunges.
You only need to take a tour of such car carriers with their loading to realize that and we’re supposedly headed for 100% incendiary EVs on them in future-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzrHJp7csxA&t=2s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzrHJp7csxA&t=2s)
Even if you don’t fill the Fremantle Highway to its 6000 capacity naturally the cars have to be loaded bottom decks up and you’ll want a fair few of the heavy ones at the bottom. Now if brand new EVs can go up in smoke big time with minimal transit charge then you definitely do not want to be on a car and passenger ferry with aged ones of various states of care/repair with up to full charges on them.
With DFDS ferries they don’t even allow you to have a full or empty petrol/diesel can with your ICE car but only in the appropriate Regulated/Approved car fuel tank. They’re only thinking of your safety naturally-
https://www.dfds.com/en-gb/legal#:~:text=Terms%20and%20conditions,Russia%20and%20Asia. (https://www.dfds.com/en-gb/legal#:~:text=Terms%20and%20conditions,Russia%20and%20Asia.)
Are you paying attention Minister Bowen before we have a Titanic type episode on the Bass Strait ferry etc?
Post by: Hairs on July 31, 2023, 05:48:42 PM
Bowen's a fool, and a dangerous fool believing in an ideology pushed by the Greens.
It's politically driven BS, he really thinks this is what people want.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Hairs on July 31, 2023, 06:04:33 PM
Caption, What do we do now, we've gone carbon neutral.
Tappatalk stops the upload,
"This is an adult image"
The world of WOKE has kicked in. :(
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230731/132d15ac41c1ccb16b309ac9469f33a7.jpg)
Post by: Champin on July 31, 2023, 06:15:12 PM
I did read somewhere most of the multi-storey car parks were built to a standard for ICE vehicles and have not taken into account the extra weight of EVs thus raising questions on their structural integrity.
Still alot of issues to work out.
Sent from my SM-X200 using Tapatalk
Post by: Hairs on July 31, 2023, 06:29:57 PM
I've mentioned before, the RFS have grave concerns for members that attend MVA'S that involve EV's
The whole dynamics of a motor vehicle accident has changed.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Champin on July 31, 2023, 06:46:40 PM
Sent from my SM-X200 using Tapatalk
Post by: prodigyrf on August 01, 2023, 11:03:30 AM
Yeah I've seen how hard they are to extinguish. I suppose there is the toxic fumes to consider too.
Here's the Mouth warning on that- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ9-mW-cmdE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ9-mW-cmdE)
Note comment from @MidgetBarmaid-
As someone who works in the fire industry. A number massive global insurance companies banded together and spent millions on researching how to attack lithium-ion battery fires. They tried a few things to fight a lithium-oim fires. Putting water on the battery. This did not work. Next they started a battery fire and submerged under water. This did not work. They tried liquard nitrogen. They even tried using nitrogen gas and a vacuum chamber. After millions of dollars they worked out there is only one thing that can put out a lithium-ion fires. TIME. They stood on the stage of this massive conference (I was there) and said let it burn and wait it out. They tried a number of gases products that claim they can put out the a battery fire but these did not work due to them being self oxygen producing.
What they found with all this testing was car batteries are quite safe as the chances of something going wrong is small however still very severe. What they found out what they is currently rumours of aftermarket batteries being product for cars like Telsa, Ford, Honda and Toyota they are much much worse in quality. Look at electric scooter fires. They are super common because the batteries are rubbish. The Australian fire industry is extremely worried about the prospect of EV cars have poor quality aftermarket batteries driving relatively soon.
Post by: DandyD on August 02, 2023, 01:36:44 AM
Post by: Champin on August 02, 2023, 05:00:53 AM
Sent from my T86 using Tapatalk
Post by: Bird on August 02, 2023, 10:11:29 AM
Independent research and information for first responders produced by Tesla warn that a battery fire in an electric vehicle can take 3,000 gallons of water and up to 24 hours to fully suppress. Firefighters should immediately arrange for water tenders and use a master stream if possible.
Consider allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures. Breathing apparatus is absolutely required. In some cases firefighters have run out of air and had to get a second bottle.
BA required... Which is a no Shit situation, but not all RFS carry them nor are most accredited for BA (or werent when I was playing).
https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=9391 (https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/page.php?id=9391)
https://www.evfiresafe.com/ev-fire-global-timeline (https://www.evfiresafe.com/ev-fire-global-timeline)
https://www.fireextinguisheronline.com.au/blog/post/electric-vehicle-fire-extinguisher-australia (https://www.fireextinguisheronline.com.au/blog/post/electric-vehicle-fire-extinguisher-australia)
Post by: DandyD on August 02, 2023, 06:25:25 PM
Did they suggest how long that could take Dandy?
Sent from my T86 using Tapatalk
No, but the cars I was working on had relatively small batteries. Luckily none have gone up in smoke.
Batteries under test have gone up, but they are restricted to a special building that contains the fire.
(https://media.thetab.com/blogs.dir/21/files/2023/02/physics-block.jpeg)
Post by: Hairs on August 15, 2023, 08:36:02 PM
"Welcome to Bowen and Albanese's wonderful world of net zero.
For just $92,990, plus on-road costs you can drive away in a brand new, made in China, LDV eT60.
Dream of weekends away camping, caravaning or boating? Forget it, this beauty has a towing limit of 1,000kg and is only available in 2wd.
With a driving range of 330km (halved when towing or carrying a load), you better go without free floor mats and ask the salesman to throw in a diesel generator and a jerry can. You can just read a book (or 2) while you wait between 1 and 9 hours for a recharge.
Not convinced? Here's the kicker, it's 'carbon neutral'. As long as you ignore its 3,050kg of steel, copper, lithium, nickel, manganese, cobalt, graphite, zinc and rare earths etc. Don't forget to turn a blind eye to the coal fired power used in the factory, the diesel trains, trucks and ships used for transport and the fossil fuels you will use to charge it at night in the comfort of your own garage.
Virtue signalling sure is an expensive business."(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230815/1e3eb1dc62532683fc8d90ef94c79901.jpg)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Bad Scott on August 16, 2023, 06:49:57 AM
This should be in the joke section.At least the ultimate camper fits the towing capacity >:D
"Welcome to Bowen and Albanese's wonderful world of net zero.
For just $92,990, plus on-road costs you can drive away in a brand new, made in China, LDV eT60.
Dream of weekends away camping, caravaning or boating? Forget it, this beauty has a towing limit of 1,000kg and is only available in 2wd.
With a driving range of 330km (halved when towing or carrying a load), you better go without free floor mats and ask the salesman to throw in a diesel generator and a jerry can. You can just read a book (or 2) while you wait between 1 and 9 hours for a recharge.
Not convinced? Here's the kicker, it's 'carbon neutral'. As long as you ignore its 3,050kg of steel, copper, lithium, nickel, manganese, cobalt, graphite, zinc and rare earths etc. Don't forget to turn a blind eye to the coal fired power used in the factory, the diesel trains, trucks and ships used for transport and the fossil fuels you will use to charge it at night in the comfort of your own garage.
Virtue signalling sure is an expensive business."(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230815/1e3eb1dc62532683fc8d90ef94c79901.jpg)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Champin on August 17, 2023, 10:46:09 AM
I apologise for the rant but the book truly sickened me.
Sent from my T86 using Tapatalk
Post by: NZMarkb on August 17, 2023, 11:26:57 AM
Just finished a book by Siddharth Kara called Cobalt Red. It would be interesting to see people's reaction to the child slavery, mutation and death, not to mention the destruction of land and water quality from where 70% of the world's Cobalt comes from. It is shocking we can allow this to happen in today's world where no-one wants to accept responsibility .
I apologise for the rant but the book truly sickened me.
Sent from my T86 using Tapatalk
They should take all the greenies and throw them in the mines :cheers:
Post by: prodigyrf on August 29, 2023, 12:26:46 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/evs-are-more-expensive-to-repair-in-collisions-study-finds/ar-AA1fTw95 (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/evs-are-more-expensive-to-repair-in-collisions-study-finds/ar-AA1fTw95)
Is EV Tesla or hybrid Toyota on the right track or are they both in terms of remaining profitable enterprises with the Great Transition?
Post by: Black174 on August 30, 2023, 01:16:09 PM
Found out last week that if I book an Early Bird parking spot in the City where there is a Tesla normal charger then I only pay $16 for the parking and the charge is for free.
The building where I work have a normal Tesla charger, so speed of charge is not an issue.
Park in the morning, plug in and fully charge when I leave at 5pm.
I normally use Public Transport or cycle in, so will only book a parking bay when the Tesla need a charge.
Post by: prodigyrf on August 30, 2023, 05:06:19 PM
https://thedriven.io/2023/08/29/perfect-storm-how-china-used-evs-to-turned-the-table-on-european-car-makers/ (https://thedriven.io/2023/08/29/perfect-storm-how-china-used-evs-to-turned-the-table-on-european-car-makers/)
You'd expect it won't be long before the EU goes protectionist like the US already has with domestic EV production.
OTOH Toyota are still kicking butt backing their hybrids for those not convinced battery cars will cut it for all-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/topstocks/toyota-s-global-sales-jump-in-july-to-hit-monthly-record/ar-AA1fY94i (https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/topstocks/toyota-s-global-sales-jump-in-july-to-hit-monthly-record/ar-AA1fY94i)
Post by: prodigyrf on September 01, 2023, 09:29:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrwORoNAQWA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrwORoNAQWA)
Post by: prodigyrf on September 03, 2023, 10:55:09 PM
Toyota San may well have got it right choosing modest NiMh battery hybrids and the moment you witness a lithium battery fire get the Hell away from there and upwind fast.
Post by: Bird on September 04, 2023, 09:53:09 AM
Legendary custom car creator Kindig ditches V8 for electric
Dave Kindig's latest creation looks like a C1 Corvette, but is an electric beast with more than 4000Nm of torque.
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/legendary-custom-car-creator-kindig-ditches-v8-for-electric (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/legendary-custom-car-creator-kindig-ditches-v8-for-electric)
Post by: DandyD on September 04, 2023, 03:12:02 PM
Post by: Bird on September 05, 2023, 09:51:01 AM
For 600k I’d expect a steering wheel on both sides.I'd expect a driver and free fuel... no wait.
Post by: xcvator on September 16, 2023, 06:02:11 PM
Post by: xcvator on September 16, 2023, 06:07:17 PM
Just finished a book by Siddharth Kara called Cobalt Red. It would be interesting to see people's reaction to the child slavery, mutation and death, not to mention the destruction of land and water quality from where 70% of the world's Cobalt comes from. It is shocking we can allow this to happen in today's world where no-one wants to accept responsibility .
I apologise for the rant but the book truly sickened me.
Sent from my T86 using Tapatalk
I felt a bit that way after reading "Blue Murder"
Post by: Bird on September 16, 2023, 07:55:20 PM
Post by: Brij on September 16, 2023, 10:11:12 PM
https://www.drive.com.au/news/mg-electric-car-battery-catches-fire-sydney-airport/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/mg-electric-car-battery-catches-fire-sydney-airport/)
Huh? ???
The car caught fire......caused by it's damaged battery.......that had been removed from the car.....
Post by: DandyD on September 17, 2023, 02:48:48 AM
A pretty stupid place to leave a battery that may have been damaged. They should have stored it well away from anything flammable.
Post by: Fizzie on September 17, 2023, 07:08:38 AM
"Australian research firm EV FireSafe – which records electric-car battery fires across the globe – found at least 375 electric vehicle fires were reported globally between 2010 and 30 April 2023, with an additional 87 incidents being investigated or unverified.
NSW Department of Fire and Emergency Services data – reported there were 2942 vehicle fires (including those powered by petrol, diesel or electricity) in New South Wales between July 2020 to June 2021."
Yep, them electric cars is awful dangerous! ::)
Post by: prodigyrf on September 17, 2023, 10:53:57 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/massive-problem-sky-news-host-criticises-sudden-ev-fires/ar-AA1gPlLy (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/massive-problem-sky-news-host-criticises-sudden-ev-fires/ar-AA1gPlLy)
Insurance costs is what will likely choke EV ownership first in that respect but developed countries don't take too kindly to large lumpy loss of life like a Grenfell Towers cladding fire and the like.
Post by: RebsWA on September 18, 2023, 09:52:08 AM
But
"Australian research firm EV FireSafe – which records electric-car battery fires across the globe – found at least 375 electric vehicle fires were reported globally between 2010 and 30 April 2023, with an additional 87 incidents being investigated or unverified.
NSW Department of Fire and Emergency Services data – reported there were 2942 vehicle fires (including those powered by petrol, diesel or electricity) in New South Wales between July 2020 to June 2021."
Yep, them electric cars is awful dangerous! ::)
Why dont you massage those figures to make them stats meaningful. IE proportion of ev, trucks and cars, what caused the fires, how many ice vehicles just spontaneously self combusted, how many other assets were destroyed in each event etc. I would not like my family any where near an ev when it catches fire particularily if its in a confined space let alone be in one.
Yes those evs have the potential to be awful dangerous.
Post by: Black174 on September 20, 2023, 09:27:41 AM
But good point, will be curious to understand what the percentage of each category the 2942 represent.
Post by: Bird on September 20, 2023, 12:39:39 PM
Quote from: RebsWA
Why dont you massage those figures to make them stats meaningful. IE proportion of ev, trucks and cars, what caused the fires, how many ice vehicles just spontaneously self combusted, how many other assets were destroyed in each event etcI agree with you, but probably in the too hard basket....
Post by: DandyD on September 20, 2023, 06:34:32 PM
It was originally set at 2040, then brought forward 10 years.
I must admit that I will be relieved, if it actually happens, but not everybody is happy.
Post by: prodigyrf on September 29, 2023, 10:39:46 AM
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/uzbekistan-lightning-strike-killed-injured-tashken-b1110093.html (https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/uzbekistan-lightning-strike-killed-injured-tashken-b1110093.html)
Not to mention they're backing up in new car showrooms as the top end of the market is satisfied and there's no more FOMO buyers-
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/australian-car-dealers-spruik-strong-electric-car-supply (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/australian-car-dealers-spruik-strong-electric-car-supply)
Post by: prodigyrf on September 29, 2023, 10:58:15 AM
Rumours are rife in the UK at the moment that the planned 2030 ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars will be pushed back five years to 2035.
They're not rumours-
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/20/rishi-sunak-confirms-rollback-of-key-green-targets (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/sep/20/rishi-sunak-confirms-rollback-of-key-green-targets)
Just facing up to the bleeding obvious with affordability-
https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/24099905/second-hand-ev-prices-falling-driver-lose-confidence/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/24099905/second-hand-ev-prices-falling-driver-lose-confidence/)
Post by: prodigyrf on October 01, 2023, 09:51:03 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/30/the-quotes-were-5000-or-more-electric-vehicle-owners-face-soaring-insurance-costs (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/30/the-quotes-were-5000-or-more-electric-vehicle-owners-face-soaring-insurance-costs)
Post by: DandyD on October 02, 2023, 09:40:40 AM
With regard to the premiums, I can only think that they must have picked on a couple of extremes. I’m seeing more and more electric cars around (they have a green stripe on the number plates) and they can’t all be paying £5k a year. My neighbours have one and I would have heard about it if they were paying way over the odds.
Post by: lloydus67 on October 02, 2023, 09:54:27 AM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Bird on October 02, 2023, 11:24:14 AM
Post by: xcvator on October 02, 2023, 03:36:03 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on October 02, 2023, 08:56:41 PM
I read that yesterday.They probably are extremes in terms of young single male owners/high points collectors/etc with the higher risk of writeoff vis a vis an ICE prang. However even for Rating1 type owners the higher cost of repairs and writeoff risk can be incurred by comprehensive insurers covering the uninsured at fault when there's no prospect of extracting damages from them. Five thousand quid premium is 9500 smackeroonies in our money and that's out of the question for average folks.
With regard to the premiums, I can only think that they must have picked on a couple of extremes.
There's no doubt in my mind if you want house and contents insurance in the future they'll be asking the hard question as in- Please describe all types of lithium batteries normally kept on the premises-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyY-tnohLiY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyY-tnohLiY)
Insurance underwriters are getting mighty nervous and picky nowadays particularly with all those ambulance chasers around looking for a feed.
Post by: Fizzie on October 03, 2023, 06:48:25 AM
If this is actually true, Farkles....
Because he's lived & driven in Oz <5 years so = an under 25 y.o. driver ???
& I've heard the name Sunshine West (which probably isn't a good sign ???), but don't actually know anything about it - good or bad area ???
Post by: Bird on October 03, 2023, 09:40:24 AM
Quote from: Fizzie
Because he's lived & driven in Oz <5 years so = an under 25 y.o. driver ???I spent 2 weeks last mth in Brissy, every second car round Eagle Farm was electric or hybrid...
Every taxi bar 1 (this one was driven by a conspiracy theorist and I was scared - he was talking about links between whats going on these days and some leader of prison camps in WW2.) was driven by Dino Shafeek <30... they cant all be paying that much for insurance and taxi's would pay more than that!
Quote
& I've heard the name Sunshine West (which probably isn't a good sign ???), but don't actually know anything about it - good or bad area ???
https://redsuburbs.com.au/suburbs/sunshine-west/ (https://redsuburbs.com.au/suburbs/sunshine-west/)
Post by: prodigyrf on October 03, 2023, 04:52:30 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/mass-market-ev-ownership-costs-18-percent-more-than-gas-cars-report/ar-AA1hB2O9#image=1 (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/mass-market-ev-ownership-costs-18-percent-more-than-gas-cars-report/ar-AA1hB2O9#image=1)
So EV insurance rising at a greater rate than ICE insurance is compounding the problem for most with inflation biting everything.
Post by: DandyD on October 03, 2023, 05:25:26 PM
Five thousand quid premium is 9500 smackeroonies in our money and that's out of the question for average folks.
That was really the point I was making. £5k/$9.5k is out of the question for average folk, but I see plenty of average folk driving them up here.
Quote
There's no doubt in my mind if you want house and contents insurance in the future they'll be asking the hard question as in- Please describe all types of lithium batteries normally kept on the premises-
Houses with integral garages are likely to be seen as a higher risk.
Post by: lloydus67 on October 03, 2023, 07:52:45 PM
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Post by: Black174 on October 04, 2023, 03:02:03 PM
45years
basement parking
3032
Australian Citizen
Zero claim history (10+ years)
Insurance is with CBA
I struggled to get anyone to insure me when I bought the Tesla since it was new and they had no data on electric cars in Australia.
CBA was the only one willing to give me a quote in 2019.
Also, if you have the Performance version then you need to be older than 30, otherwise CBA could not provide a quote.
Post by: NZMarkb on October 04, 2023, 04:41:48 PM
As for lithium mining🤦???,and they make a huge fuss over blood diamonds
Post by: prodigyrf on October 06, 2023, 04:45:00 PM
It won’t be long before you are not allowed to park them in basements or charge them in attached garage’s
OK Nostradamus-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/electric-car-charger-ban-recommended-by-owners-corporation-conglomerate/ar-AA1hLSCP (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/electric-car-charger-ban-recommended-by-owners-corporation-conglomerate/ar-AA1hLSCP)
Ball's in your court climate changers?
Post by: Black174 on October 06, 2023, 05:18:36 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on October 06, 2023, 11:36:18 PM
I see the smart money has been cashing out and taking profits for some time-
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/warren-buffett-elon-musk-berkshire-hathaway-sells-byd-stock-electric-2023-5 (https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/warren-buffett-elon-musk-berkshire-hathaway-sells-byd-stock-electric-2023-5)
I don't believe your professed explanation for that Warren particularly as Tesla have even adopted BYD's LifePo blade battery for greater safety-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSGESKhtZD0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSGESKhtZD0)
Post by: DandyD on October 07, 2023, 12:06:48 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67005620 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67005620)
It was probably the Chinese testing out their embedded sabotage software.
I had something similar when the carb froze up on my old Morris Marina.
Post by: Bird on October 07, 2023, 09:43:13 AM
'I was kidnapped by my runaway electric car'(https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9036998656/hF8E48B93/the-futures-so-bright-i-gotta-wear-shades)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67005620 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67005620)
It was probably the Chinese testing out their embedded sabotage software.
I had something similar when the carb froze up on my old Morris Marina.
Post by: prodigyrf on October 11, 2023, 10:13:39 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/outdoor-school-camps-at-risk-as-insurance-providers-deny-coverage-to-venues/ar-AA1hZVe1 (https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/outdoor-school-camps-at-risk-as-insurance-providers-deny-coverage-to-venues/ar-AA1hZVe1)
It's not that lithium battery EVs are any more likely to catch fire than ICE cars it's just that for whatever the cause they present a catastrophic outcome when massed together as we've witnessed with the Felicity Ace and Fremantle highway RoRo car carriers. Insurers will work it out long before our climate changing elites with Strata Corps, carparks, mass venues, etc. Sell Tesla, BYD, etc and buy Toyota with world's best hybrids using NiMh modest batteries is my educated guess.
Post by: prodigyrf on October 11, 2023, 07:56:31 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpyIZtdrPR8
Post by: prodigyrf on October 11, 2023, 08:40:59 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs44yW7vOP4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs44yW7vOP4)
Because Joe Public now expect it to be an EV or a number of them-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=831zFMuzwYo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=831zFMuzwYo)
Post by: DandyD on October 12, 2023, 06:40:22 AM
Post by: prodigyrf on October 12, 2023, 08:38:35 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12618033/started-London-Luton-car-park-fire-moment.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12618033/started-London-Luton-car-park-fire-moment.html)
What matters is this taking out a carpark full of cars just like the Felicity Ace and Fremantle Highway-
The fire then spread as a number of electric vehicles burst into flames in a domino effect, one firefighter suggested. As many as 1,500 vehicles are feared to have been damaged.
Thankfully no loss of life like Grenfell Towers or 911. Now think about the future moving to 100% explosive incendiary cars. All aboard the Spirit of Tasmania ferry full of EVs of varying ages maintenance and states of repair underneath you? The channel tunnel or Sydney Harbour tunnel etc etc?
Don't mass those explosive incendiary devices anywhere near me and mine OK.
Post by: Bird on October 12, 2023, 09:11:13 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12618033/started-London-Luton-car-park-fire-moment.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12618033/started-London-Luton-car-park-fire-moment.html)impressive explosion !!!
Post by: DandyD on October 12, 2023, 09:27:19 AM
impressive explosion !!!
I wonder what that was. A petrol tank? Has an electric car ever exploded like that before?
I have witnessed a couple of battery fires but never an explosion.
Post by: prodigyrf on October 13, 2023, 10:30:12 AM
https://m.workplace.com/7NEWSAdelaide/videos/e-bikes-explode-in-a-fireball-after-they-were-first-extinguished-at-seaford-mead/1014832239637203/ (https://m.workplace.com/7NEWSAdelaide/videos/e-bikes-explode-in-a-fireball-after-they-were-first-extinguished-at-seaford-mead/1014832239637203/)
You want to be riding on one of these when they do?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71cVhxG_v4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71cVhxG_v4)
Post by: DandyD on October 13, 2023, 11:51:44 PM
(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/10/11/16/76432259-12619137-Investigators_believe_last_night_s_blaze_at_Luton_airport_s_mult-a-32_1697037079689.jpg)
(https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/WzXY1/s3/jetzt-auch-als-plug-in-hybrid.jpg)
Post by: Mace on October 14, 2023, 09:28:22 AM
This the car that is supposed to have started it all. If it is a hybrid, the battery is at the back behind the rear bumper. That’s not where the fire seems to be.Quote
From what Ive read it was a Range Rover Deisel. The fire spread to other nearby EV's.
Post by: DandyD on October 15, 2023, 06:14:12 PM
This the car that is supposed to have started it all. If it is a hybrid, the battery is at the back behind the rear bumper. That’s not where the fire seems to be.Quote
From what Ive read it was a Range Rover Deisel. The fire spread to other nearby EV's.
There is conjecture now that the source of the fire was a diesel hybrid RR.
Post by: prodigyrf on October 15, 2023, 09:52:38 PM
Shhhhhhh and always remember your elites know what's best for you :-X
Post by: DandyD on October 15, 2023, 10:27:22 PM
Sorry for the effing huge picture.
(https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/2020-land-rover-discovery-sport-gets-mild-hybrid-system-from-range-rover-evoque_1.jpg)
Post by: prodigyrf on October 16, 2023, 12:57:58 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/up-to-1-500-vehicles-in-luton-airport-car-park-fire-unlikely-to-be-salvageable/ar-AA1ieWis (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/up-to-1-500-vehicles-in-luton-airport-car-park-fire-unlikely-to-be-salvageable/ar-AA1ieWis)
Post by: Bird on October 17, 2023, 10:14:03 AM
Post by: prodigyrf on October 17, 2023, 07:08:58 PM
https://amp-9news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.9news.com.au/article/72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16975227917952&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.9news.com.au%2Fnational%2Feastern-golf-course-clubhouse-destroyed-in-ferocious-blaze-northeast-of-melbourne-in-yering%2F72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1 (https://amp-9news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.9news.com.au/article/72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16975227917952&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.9news.com.au%2Fnational%2Feastern-golf-course-clubhouse-destroyed-in-ferocious-blaze-northeast-of-melbourne-in-yering%2F72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1)
Be careful getting water in the expensive fuel tank too by all accounts :'(
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/scottish-couple-facing-33k-repair-bill-after-driving-tesla-in-heavy-rain/ar-AA1ikK3k (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/scottish-couple-facing-33k-repair-bill-after-driving-tesla-in-heavy-rain/ar-AA1ikK3k)
Post by: Rowlie on October 18, 2023, 06:56:20 AM
"You don't normally see many structure fires go that quickly!"
https://amp-9news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.9news.com.au/article/72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16975227917952&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.9news.com.au%2Fnational%2Feastern-golf-course-clubhouse-destroyed-in-ferocious-blaze-northeast-of-melbourne-in-yering%2F72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1 (https://amp-9news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.9news.com.au/article/72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16975227917952&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.9news.com.au%2Fnational%2Feastern-golf-course-clubhouse-destroyed-in-ferocious-blaze-northeast-of-melbourne-in-yering%2F72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1)
It is a fair bit bigger than the 180sqm in the news article I would think - maybe 1800sqm? Being so new I would have thought it would be sprinklered. It was windy on Monday and potentially the ignition point was favorable to the breeze but you are right it was indeed a total conflagration.
I haven't had much to do with mobility scooters since lithium became popular but I presume they are fitting them with lithium batteries now. The mind boggles on what could happen in retirement villages etc. Let's hope they sort them out before the ship really hits the span.
Post by: prodigyrf on October 19, 2023, 11:45:32 AM
Insurance underwriters are going to put the mockers on all this even if the MSM continue playing dumb.
Post by: prodigyrf on October 19, 2023, 07:28:21 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/tesla-joins-gm-ford-in-slowing-ev-factory-ramp-as-demand-fears-spread/ar-AA1itTsV (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/tesla-joins-gm-ford-in-slowing-ev-factory-ramp-as-demand-fears-spread/ar-AA1itTsV)
and their depreciation won't help the flippers and leasers trade up to new again-
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/used-ev-prices-drop-30-2023-going-electric-isnt-going/ (https://www.motorbiscuit.com/used-ev-prices-drop-30-2023-going-electric-isnt-going/)
Same in Oz with 2019 Tesla M3 Standard owners trying to minimize $30k plus in depreciation by selling privately as they don't like the ugly trade in quotes.
Post by: DandyD on October 20, 2023, 09:18:49 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NyGbuEOEnts&t=2391s&pp=ygUJTWFjbWFzdGVy (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NyGbuEOEnts&t=2391s&pp=ygUJTWFjbWFzdGVy)
Post by: prodigyrf on October 20, 2023, 08:48:39 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/toyota-camry-hybrid-orders-paused/ar-AA1itVIU (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/toyota-camry-hybrid-orders-paused/ar-AA1itVIU)
What will it be like if they release a hybrid Hilux and Cruiser? Toyota should be auctioning them off the production line and that way they can outbid any carmaker for the inputs they need and ultimately satisfy everyone sooner.
Post by: DandyD on October 22, 2023, 04:59:25 AM
Electric cars risk becoming uninsurable
Difficulty pricing battery repairs forcing insurers to refuse cover
Electric cars risk becoming effectively uninsurable as analysts struggle to put a price on battery repairs, the researcher for the car insurance industry has said.
Jonathan Hewett, chief executive of Thatcham Research, the motor insurers’ automotive research centre, said a lack of “insight and understanding” about the cost of repairing damaged electric car batteries was pushing up premiums and resulting in some providers declining to provide cover altogether.
Electric cars can be particularly expensive to repair, costing around a quarter more to fix on average than a petrol or diesel vehicle. Experts have previously warned electric vehicles are being written off after minor bumps because of the cost and complexity of fixing their batteries.
Mr Hewett said: “The challenge is that we have no way of understanding whether the battery has been compromised or damaged in any way.
“The threat of thermal runaway means that a catastrophic fire can take place if the cells of the battery have been damaged in a collision.
“What we’re struggling to understand at the moment is how we approach that diagnostic technique.
“It’s like a doctor trying to understand what’s wrong with you without any notes or an X-ray.”
John Lewis Financial Services stopped providing car insurance for electric cars last month for new and existing customers, as its underwriter Covéa analysed risks and costs.
Aviva removed insurance products for the Tesla Model Y earlier this year before restoring them several months later.
Vehicle repair costs rose 33pc over the first quarter of 2023 compared to 2022, helping to push annual premiums to record highs, according to the Association of British Insurers.
Average electric car insurance costs rose 72pc in the year to September, compared to 29pc for petrol and diesel models, according to Confused.com.
Mr Hewett said premiums would eventually begin to level out and match those of petrol and diesel cars once actuaries had the tools needed to better understand the risks of insuring electric cars, saying the issue would likely be “short term”.
However, he added: “The battery is an extremely expensive component of an electric vehicle and until we find efficient ways of dealing with it we have the challenge of high premiums for electric vehicles, which nobody wants.”
Some customers are now being quoted over £100 a week to insure their electric vehicles, with others reporting premiums doubling or tripling compared to a year before.
One reason attributed to the steep rise in the cost of electric car repairs stems from recommendations for electric cars to be kept 50ft apart in repair yards over fears they might explode.
Government guidelines suggest electric vehicles with damaged batteries should be “quarantined” from other cars due to the risk of battery fires, which are typically harder to put out than fires in petrol or diesel cars.
The London Fire Brigade has warned that fires involving lithium batteries are the fastest-growing fire risk in London, after it was called out to 87 e-bike and 29 e-scooter fires in 2022.
Paris’s transport operator withdrew 149 electric buses from operation last year after two ignited on separate occasions.
The website Tesla-Fire.com lists 25 reports of Teslas catching fire globally since the beginning of 2023.
Thatcham Research said insurers would need to spend an additional £900m a year on quarantine facilities for damaged cars as a result of the safety measures by 2035, as more battery-powered vehicles take to the roads, with the changes forecast to add £20 a year onto all car insurance premiums.
Conservative MP Greg Smith, who sits on the Commons transport committee, said: “[The lack of battery diagnostics] is yet another reason why electric vehicles aren’t remotely suitable for the mass market yet and why we should be looking to other technologies, like synthetic fuels and hydrogen, that will be more reliable and friendly to the planet.”
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/net-zero/electric-cars-risk-becoming-uninsurable/ (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/net-zero/electric-cars-risk-becoming-uninsurable/) Paywall >:(
Post by: RebsWA on October 22, 2023, 09:49:22 AM
Thats what will most likely happen here in Aus too and 20UK pounds is only the thin edge of the wedge.
Electric cars risk becoming uninsurable
with the changes forecast to add £20 a year onto all car insurance premiums.
To arrive at effective premiums for EV's would have too much impact on EV utopia and the pro EV governments around the world will not want that.
They will be happy with the cost being shared to ICE vehicle owners as it will help phase them out as seems to be the agenda.
Oh how I am looking forward to my already over the top premiums for my diesel tug and the wife's little ICE car rising beyond fair to support the pro EV club.
Post by: DandyD on October 22, 2023, 06:44:24 PM
You never see these spontaneously combust.
(https://www.imcdb.org/i514484.jpg)
Post by: Champin on October 23, 2023, 08:56:08 AM
Sent from my T86 using Tapatalk
Post by: jclures on October 23, 2023, 08:05:03 PM
I found this link which might help.
https://blog.ecoflow.com/us/lifepo4-vs-lithium-ion-batteries/ (https://blog.ecoflow.com/us/lifepo4-vs-lithium-ion-batteries/)
Post by: Champin on October 24, 2023, 04:11:57 AM
I'm using AGM batteries in my RV (7 X 120 ah) on the advise of the so called professional at the battery shop. He told me the li-ion batteries had a tendency to catch fire. A risk I wasn't willing to take however small. I think I'll go lithium when these batteries die. Sent from my T86 using Tapatalk
Post by: prodigyrf on October 25, 2023, 10:36:17 AM
Toyota says that it takes the same amount of battery material to make one full battery electric vehicle as it does to make 90 hybrids or six plug-in hybrids, suggesting that EV adaptation at a global scale is currently not realistic.
Particularly so as renewables grid firming competes for scarce light weight lithium battery resources when it could be using alternative flow batteries.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/toyota-is-sticking-by-petrol-and-diesel-in-an-increasingly-electric-world/ar-AA1iN22w (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/toyota-is-sticking-by-petrol-and-diesel-in-an-increasingly-electric-world/ar-AA1iN22w)
Post by: MDS69 on October 25, 2023, 07:07:38 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on October 27, 2023, 08:31:41 AM
In any case lithium battery EVs can never satisfy the mass market due to their cost and you can easily see that with driveaway pricing of the Chinese MG ZS ICE vs the MG ZSEV version. Financing the difference at 8% car loans for most or even 6% upping the home mortgage blows away any EV fuel savings. That's before any consideration of higher EV depreciation we're seeing now with more mature EV supply and demand. The climate changers' fantasy of electric transport running on unreliables simply aint gunna happen.
Post by: prodigyrf on October 30, 2023, 03:18:51 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australian-ferry-operators-put-on-alert-for-electric-car-fires/ar-AA1j3Zlv (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australian-ferry-operators-put-on-alert-for-electric-car-fires/ar-AA1j3Zlv)
Post by: Hairs on November 09, 2023, 04:48:59 PM
"Brisbane fast-charging company Tritium will close its Brisbane factory in an effort to save cash and to try and save its business"
https://fb.watch/oceq6K3evE/?mibextid=CDWPTG (https://fb.watch/oceq6K3evE/?mibextid=CDWPTG)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Black174 on November 10, 2023, 06:43:29 PM
So, it begins in earnest >:D
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australian-ferry-operators-put-on-alert-for-electric-car-fires/ar-AA1j3Zlv (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/australian-ferry-operators-put-on-alert-for-electric-car-fires/ar-AA1j3Zlv)
Took the Tesla over to Tassie this last weekend and no mention of any of this.
Drove on and park like anyone else.
Post by: austastar on November 10, 2023, 08:30:38 PM
Hmmmm...
8<-------
Hi xxx
Thank you for your enquiry in regards to the carriage of electric/hybrid vehicles on Spirit of Tasmania.
The safety of all passengers and crew is a top priority for Spirit of Tasmania. Spirit of Tasmania is fully compliant with all Marine Orders as regulated by the Australian Maritime Safety Authority.
Spirit of Tasmania has set procedures regarding the carriage of Electric/hybrid vehicles on board. These vehicles are identified at check-in and stowed on specific decks that mitigate potential risk associated to lithium batteries.
Please be assured, our crew undergo extensive training and conduct frequent drills ensuring they are fully equipped and prepared for the unlikely event of a fire or any other emergency on board.
Thank you again for your enquiry. Your patronage and continuing goodwill are very important to us. We look forward welcoming you back on board Spirit of Tasmania.
We trust this assists.
Kind regards
Win
Sales Support
T: +61 3 6419 9328
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Spirit of Tasmania
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From:
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To: Sales Support <salessupport@spiritoftasmania.com.au>
Subject: Travelling with Dangerous Goods
Name *
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Travelling with Dangerous Goods
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Hi, any restrictions on electric vehicles. The recent fire on the Dutch RORO vessel was a bit scary.
Cheers
8<---------
Cheers
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Post by: Black174 on November 11, 2023, 09:09:01 AM
So car parks in Melbourne CBD have free chargers, so I manage my range so that I drive to the city on the day I need to charge my car.
Early bird ticket for the day is $17/day where my charge at a supercharger will be around $20.
Very convenient for me.
Yes everyone will have different circumstances, but it works perfectly for me.
I still prefer my LC76 over my Tesla, Tesla is my city car.
Post by: prodigyrf on November 12, 2023, 06:15:37 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVwOrk1vl5Y (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVwOrk1vl5Y)
Question: What is the lithium battery EV industry doing about its similar and growing problem with threat to life limb and property?
Post by: Black174 on November 12, 2023, 08:41:07 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on November 14, 2023, 10:13:37 PM
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/11/13/watch-morano-on-rebel-news-the-green-energy-scam-is-starting-to-collapse-this-is-an-ideology-like-the-soviet-union/ (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/11/13/watch-morano-on-rebel-news-the-green-energy-scam-is-starting-to-collapse-this-is-an-ideology-like-the-soviet-union/)
To some extent we dodged a bullet in Oz getting out of car manufacturing altogether and rather fortuitously while we're making record income from fossil fuel exports (coal and gas). We can buy Shanghai Teslas BYDs or MGs etc until their pips squeak and keep slashing those uneconomic prices as long as they like. However fuelling them with the Green dream of solar and wind locally is where we can't avoid the collapse Morano is talking about with all that transmissioning and offshore wind etc.
Hell with the construction industry shortages and skyrocketting costs collapsing the construction industry we can't even build enough affordable housing let alone Chris Bowen's net-zero fantasy. How's SnowyII coming along cost wise Minister because the 10,000kms of transmissioning and offshore wind turbines aren't going to fare any better when the much chastened and wiser remaining suppliers put in their tenders.
Post by: Black174 on November 18, 2023, 12:49:32 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on November 20, 2023, 09:57:00 PM
Same deal here now as a 2019 Tesla Model3 owner is now asking $39k after listing it for $49k back on June 8 and easily murdering $30k from new-
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2019-tesla-model-3-standard-range-plus-auto/SSE-AD-15251968/?Cr=0 (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2019-tesla-model-3-standard-range-plus-auto/SSE-AD-15251968/?Cr=0)
Ordinary folks buying on finance can't afford that sort of hit when already the higher finance cost of an EV over an ICE negates any fuel cost savings. Don't get sucked into the Gummint lure of cheaper novated leasing or you'll be sorry come residual time like plenty of those Tesla leasers on Carsales are finding now.
Post by: Bird on November 22, 2023, 08:31:37 AM
- I drove Hyundai's Ioniq 5 from Sydney to Melbourne
- In total, I spent $210 and three-and-a-half hours 'powering up'
- The same journey costs me $140 in petrol - a $70 fuel stop each way
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12769167/Hyundai-Ioniq-5-road-trip-Melbourne-Sydney-expensive-slow.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-12769167/Hyundai-Ioniq-5-road-trip-Melbourne-Sydney-expensive-slow.html)
Post by: prodigyrf on November 23, 2023, 09:03:24 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12776829/Ray-Hadley-issues-brutal-reality-check-electric-car-owners-exposes-major-problem.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12776829/Ray-Hadley-issues-brutal-reality-check-electric-car-owners-exposes-major-problem.html)
https://thedriven.io/2023/11/22/australian-hospital-group-and-golf-club-ban-ev-charging-because-of-fire-risks/ (https://thedriven.io/2023/11/22/australian-hospital-group-and-golf-club-ban-ev-charging-because-of-fire-risks/)
Post by: prodigyrf on November 23, 2023, 09:09:45 AM
I drove an electric car from Sydney to Melbourne. This is what I learned about using EVs in a country as large and unforgiving as Australia - and what you need to know before buying one
No worries Bird just like congestion charging at the servo Elon has them covered :-*
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/tesla-s-plan-to-extract-more-cash-from-supercharger-users/ar-AA1kk2TM (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/tesla-s-plan-to-extract-more-cash-from-supercharger-users/ar-AA1kk2TM)
Post by: Bird on November 23, 2023, 09:24:36 AM
Quote from: prodigyrf
No worries Bird just like congestion charging at the servo Elon has them covered :-*
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/tesla-s-plan-to-extract-more-cash-from-supercharger-users/ar-AA1kk2TM (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/tesla-s-plan-to-extract-more-cash-from-supercharger-users/ar-AA1kk2TM)
The funny thing... theres a few ... "new australians" here at work that thought charging would be free... they got a nasty surprise.
Post by: Bad Scott on November 23, 2023, 10:36:29 AM
The funny thing... theres a few ... "new australians" here at work that thought charging would be free... they got a nasty surprise.Screw a GPO to a tree and say it's green power >:D
Post by: Bird on November 23, 2023, 10:38:12 AM
Screw a GPO to a tree and say it's green power >:Dtrickle charge... just wait it will get there eventually
Post by: prodigyrf on November 23, 2023, 03:01:11 PM
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/hybrids-not-electric-cars-are-the-next-big-thing-according-to-toyota-australia-91473 (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/hybrids-not-electric-cars-are-the-next-big-thing-according-to-toyota-australia-91473)
And with mainly Tesla making an earn out of BEVs Toyota with their long order books aren't in any hurry to compete and lose dough.
Post by: prodigyrf on November 24, 2023, 10:29:23 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/medical-staff-told-not-to-charge-electric-cars-due-to-fire-risk/ar-AA1ksbP8 (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/medical-staff-told-not-to-charge-electric-cars-due-to-fire-risk/ar-AA1ksbP8)
No wonder China is working hard on safer sodium based batteries but the tradeoff is heavier lesser energy battery packs.
Post by: Hairs on November 25, 2023, 05:35:48 PM
We have an energy crisis, yet power companies are having record profits posted, this includes electricity and oil companies.
I maybe a dinosaur, however I'm not believing this 'we have to go green sh1t'
There are more diesel powered shipping linersthen ever, there are more planes in to air then before, but we are told we have to cut our use of petrol/diesel powered vehicles to save the planet.
Yet our homes have more & more electrical devices.
We played Australia.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: prodigyrf on November 30, 2023, 01:14:22 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGQXYL_eHHs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGQXYL_eHHs)
Post by: Bird on December 01, 2023, 03:59:46 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on December 03, 2023, 01:03:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQx3_aCWQsU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQx3_aCWQsU)
Post by: WilSurf on December 04, 2023, 11:56:31 AM
Post by: prodigyrf on December 04, 2023, 07:34:41 PM
We are thinking of replacing our aging hybrid with an EV very soon.Well I could see why when the average wait for a new car is 69 days while for a Toyota it's 158 days (but not a hybrid in that time obviously)-
https://pricemycar.com.au/delivery-dates (https://pricemycar.com.au/delivery-dates)
As for the shining light EU rollout of BEVs they could now have 2 years worth of plug-in car sales before the public chargers planned for them today would be up and running-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/analysis-eu-s-electric-dreams-short-circuited-by-ev-charging-gridlock/ar-AA1kXaMU (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/analysis-eu-s-electric-dreams-short-circuited-by-ev-charging-gridlock/ar-AA1kXaMU)
Post by: prodigyrf on December 15, 2023, 10:20:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1UiEDjwExQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1UiEDjwExQ)
There's no doubt if those claims are met Zeekr will leave the likes of Tesla and BYD in their wake with their incendiary battery technology as there's no way modern industrial societies would accept Grenfell Towers episodes with increasing EV penetration. On top of that 15minute charging is fairly tolerable. Still you rarely get it all in engineering without some other tradeoffs so the question is what's the battery tech cost. Then there's the cost of 500kW plus charging stations and how quickly and how many can be rolled out when we're already struggling with peak power demand.
Post by: DandyD on December 16, 2023, 08:31:11 PM
Post by: lloydus67 on December 16, 2023, 08:37:21 PM
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Post by: elver on December 17, 2023, 12:17:25 PM
I thought Tesla was already using LFP batteries.Depends on the factory and model. Most y’s and 3’s from Beijing are fitted with LFP. But the long range versions and all US made are not. So it depends on what you order.
Personally, the lfp chemistry benefits far exceeds the range benefits of the Long range models.
For me the set and forget value of filling the car to full at any time is worth so much more as I live in country nsw and often do >400 km trips out into the places where there are no chargers what so ever. (Short notice, work trips). So my car is always hooked up to charge to full using the Charge Hq app that mooches spare solar whenever it’s available.
Post by: Hairs on December 17, 2023, 02:57:09 PM
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: KevL on December 17, 2023, 04:17:56 PM
When you take away the hysteria and ideology.
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Post by: prodigyrf on December 19, 2023, 10:55:05 AM
When you take away the hysteria and ideology.We don't do that here Kev- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOA7qKMcjcE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOA7qKMcjcE)
and yes LiFePO4 battery tech is a lot safer as they're working out- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2J0BVxt-rg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2J0BVxt-rg)
Safer as they can tolerate a lot more abuse with fast charging and temperature but they still contain a lot of energy in a confined structural space and you don't want a lot of them together when that inevitably happens-
https://au.pcmag.com/cars-auto/101435/these-batteries-could-drive-ev-adoption-why-are-carmakers-so-tight-lipped (https://au.pcmag.com/cars-auto/101435/these-batteries-could-drive-ev-adoption-why-are-carmakers-so-tight-lipped)
Post by: elver on December 19, 2023, 12:56:25 PM
Petrol cars also have some pretty flammable bits. I know two people who’ve suffered catastrophic burns in vehicle fires. It’s really Shit. A petrol fire is not something I want in my car.
Compared to my petrol car, both are at risk of going bang when I stuff up and crash them or theirs a fault. Both propulsion systems carry a metric Shit ton of energy in a small space hurtling along at 110kmh 50 cm away from cars going the other way. It’s a recipe for disaster if you think about it. Treat them as intended ( no open flames or sparky electrics for the petrol car for instance) and all is well. Stuff up and bad things happen to both!
If people drop the political wank and snide comments, both options work well - 90% of the time electricity propelled cars work for my work and pleasure trips and I’m a regionally based geologist that goes to all sorts of places for my work all the time. 400km round trips in a day with significant dirt road sections are standard for me. It takes some planning, but works well.
I’ve found my electric cars are cheaper to run, go really well, and their designers have innovated parts of them better than petrol propelled cars as they are thinking differently at present. Typically after a day driving in the EV, I’m less tired than compared to my diesel car. Largely because it’s good new tech that helps me.
I still own a diesel car. I still drive a petrol lawnmower, but if the road is suitable I choose the electric car most times. Because fundamentally it’s a bloody nice car to drive and the running cost is sweet FA cause I fuel it with solar that I paid for ages ago.
Some days I need the 4wd. But I think before I go out about which car to take, because they are a tool for my job. Like any job you need to pick the right tool for your needs.
Blanket grandiose statements (either way) are just signs of limited thinking which is well, not thinking!
The important thing is try both. Have an open mind. No one’s forcing you to drive an ev. Diesel and petrol is still going to be round for a very very long time. No matter what the scare mongers are saying our governments are so disorganised the mythical ban on ice cars is not something they’re actually going to agree on any time soon. The shock jocks just love thinking it’s a problem. They’re dreaming.
Right now though, driving electric is cheaper - it’s kind of like comparing lamb to beef. Both are meat, both taste great and fill my kids bellies, but ones half price compared to the other.
Right now I’m eating a lot of lamb!
Post by: WilSurf on December 19, 2023, 04:25:24 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on December 20, 2023, 12:00:21 AM
I've got an open mind and an EV like the BYD Dolphin or even Atto3 would suit as a second metro car alongside the diesel fourby for towing. I've even test driven an Atto3 but the missus Kia Stonic kills it for running cost with cents/km. Not that I have to worry about that but the vast majority do and yet Govts who believe they can change the weather reckon they know best and want to see 100% of these dangerous incendiaries everywhere? Two dead RoRo car carriers should tell any oxymoron about the threat of massed EVs in future unless the industry solves the lithium battery problem right here and now rather than leaving it up to insurance underwriters after the event. Maybe Zeekr have and best of luck to them but current lithium battery tech is clearly warning us of Grenfell Towers futures.
What's more Govts are actively passing laws to see massed EVs everywhere as well as subsidising the well to do into them and subsidising their refuelling stations. Really? Now I've got a house driveway carport and shed to stick one and solar panels to charge it cheap but I'm increasingly aware some don't even have a roof over their head and our taxes are subsidising the well off here? User chooses and user pays and ICE owners are already paying 53.7c/L excise incl GST on petrol and diesel in that regard.
Post by: jclures on December 20, 2023, 07:25:10 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk&t=5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk&t=5s)
Post by: WilSurf on December 20, 2023, 01:24:41 PM
This is what would worry me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk&t=5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk&t=5s)
Have you checked the cost for a new engine?
I know it's not $60k but still a lot of money.
Post by: Bird on December 20, 2023, 02:18:20 PM
Quote from: jclures
This is what would worry me.or
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk&t=5s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk&t=5s)
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/scottish-couple-facing-33k-repair-bill-after-driving-tesla-in-heavy-rain (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/scottish-couple-facing-33k-repair-bill-after-driving-tesla-in-heavy-rain)
Post by: elver on December 20, 2023, 02:43:00 PM
Leaf the other day. $18k for a bigger (25% bigger) Better battery.
Not cheap, but not the scaremongering figures quoted above.
Turns out the fault I had was not the drive battery but in the wee 12v battery that manages idle power jobs. So it was a $200 fix instead.
I certainly don’t want to have to do it
A main battery replacement but it’s well less than the replacement cost of the car as new and even less than the cost of buying the same car second hand with more km on it ex Japan.
Also, there is the option of replacing just parts of a battery pack. This is way cheaper again. As repairers learn new skills they are working out how to do this stuff and telling the overly restrictive car manufacturers to shove their conservative and in house only repair ideas. Norther Europe and their right to repair laws are making big inroads into changing the abilities of the off brand repair people.
Post by: WilSurf on December 20, 2023, 03:25:00 PM
or
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/scottish-couple-facing-33k-repair-bill-after-driving-tesla-in-heavy-rain (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/scottish-couple-facing-33k-repair-bill-after-driving-tesla-in-heavy-rain)
A friend of mine drove his Subaru WRX with cold air intake during eavy rain andwater came in and destroyed his engine.
Same thing.
It seems to me that this is very similar to those people who were against the car and kept riding their horses.
Post by: elver on December 20, 2023, 03:38:41 PM
A friend of mine drove his Subaru WRX with cold air intake during eavy rain andwater came in and destroyed his engine.Spot on.
Same thing.
It seems to me that this is very similar to those people who were against the car and kept riding their horses.
Note it’s still totally legal to ride a horse on the road.
I’d guess that in future it will remain legal to drive an ICE car on the road too. Not that the freedom fighting shock jocks will ever acknowledge this.
Post by: prodigyrf on December 24, 2023, 10:47:40 AM
and unless the industry solves the lithium battery incendiary problem and faces it head on and stops making excuses current EV tech faces a massive fallacy of composition safety problem- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFJoEPPkxiA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFJoEPPkxiA)
Nothing to see here move along as it was only one cell among 1050 folks! Yeah riiiight just a RoRo car carrier full of EVs and flooding the deck with CO2 like an ICE fire won't cut it. All aboard the Spirit of Tasmania with heaps of them of various ages maintenance bangs underneath and states of repair and charge? Come on don't be shy.
Insurance underwriters will be the nasty Gestapo for all the Seargeant Schultzes in this amusing fantasy play.
Post by: rags on December 24, 2023, 07:45:38 PM
A friend of mine drove his Subaru WRX with cold air intake during eavy rain andwater came in and destroyed his engine.
Same thing.
It seems to me that this is very similar to those people who were against the car and kept riding their horses.
Yep, agree problems happen with any car.
I have a Landcruiser 300 series GX so fitted with the factory snorkel looking attachment. If I drive in rain at around 80 - 100km for an hour or so, i will end up with water in the airbox and a wet filter element. Toyota still are trying to develop a fix but in the meantime have supplied me with a couple of replacement air filter elements.
Post by: prodigyrf on December 29, 2023, 12:08:15 AM
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/ (https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/)
It's always the cover up that hits them hardest and it's coming at the wrong time with early adopter market dropoff and Cybertruck over promising.
Meanwhile the hybrid experts Toyota have hit record production and profitability trying to shorten their customer queues.
PS: and it never rains but what it pours eh Elon?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/glovis-caravel-huge-blow-to-aussie-tesla-buyers-as-ship-carrying-several-months-worth-of-cars-is-kicked-out-of-australia-due-to-mystery-biohazard/ar-AA1m8m0c (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/glovis-caravel-huge-blow-to-aussie-tesla-buyers-as-ship-carrying-several-months-worth-of-cars-is-kicked-out-of-australia-due-to-mystery-biohazard/ar-AA1m8m0c)
Post by: Brij on December 29, 2023, 06:28:42 AM
My Mitsi Challenger has a 2 tonne kerb weight and with it's useage it has a chassis but you also notice a big contributor to its weight is a very gutsy suspension system to manage it all. Seems newbie Tesla overlooked that with their heavy batteries but the critical oversight was suspension strength particularly with the torque electric drives can muster-
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/ (https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-musk-steering-suspension/)
It's always the cover up that hits them hardest and it's coming at the wrong time with early adopter market dropoff and Cybertruck over promising.
Meanwhile the hybrid experts Toyota have hit record production and profitability trying to shorten their customer queues.
PS: and it never rains but what it pours eh Elon?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/glovis-caravel-huge-blow-to-aussie-tesla-buyers-as-ship-carrying-several-months-worth-of-cars-is-kicked-out-of-australia-due-to-mystery-biohazard/ar-AA1m8m0c (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/glovis-caravel-huge-blow-to-aussie-tesla-buyers-as-ship-carrying-several-months-worth-of-cars-is-kicked-out-of-australia-due-to-mystery-biohazard/ar-AA1m8m0c)
This article about the ship appears to be old news, dating back to a shipment in 2022?
Post by: prodigyrf on December 30, 2023, 08:56:30 PM
Tell that to professional journalism then- https://www.drive.com.au/news/ship-carrying-teslas-to-australia-turned-back/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/ship-carrying-teslas-to-australia-turned-back/)
Small beer in the big scheme of things with no mass EV future if the industry can't produce extinguishable batteries. That's number one but here's number two in the Holy Land of EV rollout- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqVPbJ-V4eg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqVPbJ-V4eg)
The women I know won't have a bar of that and there's half the car market gone walkabout.
Post by: WilSurf on January 02, 2024, 12:33:08 PM
Tell that to professional journalism then- https://www.drive.com.au/news/ship-carrying-teslas-to-australia-turned-back/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/ship-carrying-teslas-to-australia-turned-back/)
Nothing to do with the EV, all to do with the cleaning requirements.
Post by: WilSurf on January 02, 2024, 12:37:42 PM
Well they're definitely not for 4WDing- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3mFzh0KSk)
So isn't a Yaris, Falcon or Commodore.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 03, 2024, 05:12:41 PM
True and all our annual 1.2million cars have to come by ship nowadays-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/1000-kia-vehicles-turned-back-due-to-biosecurity-risk/ar-AA1mo2jR (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/1000-kia-vehicles-turned-back-due-to-biosecurity-risk/ar-AA1mo2jR)
Apart from live bugs that presents a problem for current lithium battery tech in large volumes that flooding with CO2 won't solve-
https://apnews.com/article/cargo-ship-fire-alaska-safety-precautions-38e7a4e5e882617d184eb73ec928814e (https://apnews.com/article/cargo-ship-fire-alaska-safety-precautions-38e7a4e5e882617d184eb73ec928814e)
Houston YOU have a problem!
Post by: Hairs on January 05, 2024, 06:55:56 PM
You own a EV, you are in Mt Tamborine at the moment, or any other area that is effected by the loss of power, due to storms, or other natural disasters?
What's your back up plan?
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: lloydus67 on January 05, 2024, 07:44:43 PM
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Post by: Hairs on January 06, 2024, 07:03:45 AM
Tbh, same as if you run out of fuel, all the servo’s can’t pump petrol or diesel until the power comes back on.Hmm, That might be right in big towns, cities, however our small town's general store has diesel generators as backup for when there are power failures. Has had for the 27 years I've lived here.
It Keeps the fridges/freezers, fuel pumps operational during power outages, Whether that be network outages due upgrades or weather events.
Our emergency services in town, RFS/SES need 24 hour access to fuel.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Fizzie on January 06, 2024, 07:50:35 AM
It Keeps the fridges/freezers, fuel pumps operational during power outages,
Does it also run the cash register & card reader ???
That's the other thing that's now showing up more & more - when an area loses power, all the various mobile phone towers only have ~8 hours battery life before they also shut down, so no phones. nbn is also reliant on power so also no internet, EFTPOS, banking etc etc etc :'( >:(
Welcome to teh wonders of teh cutting-edge, 21st century, Australian communications network! ::)
Post by: Hairs on January 06, 2024, 08:25:52 AM
Yes it does mate.
The store has satellite NBN, Phone.
I figure over the years, as our town gets bigger, more people are reliant on the general store when roads are cut due to flooding and power failures.
In big floods, the pumps are removed, although the store stays open.
Milk, bread essential are brought in by boat.
Even in big floods, we are still able to get to either Grafton or Casino by road(70 odd Km's).
Re Phone towers.
Lawrence is part of the national communication network(we had wireless nbn before other towns that are bigger than us), there is a diesel generator at the tower to power it.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 07, 2024, 02:33:02 PM
Petrol: 588,622 sales, up 6.7 per cent
Diesel: 379,512 sales, up 5.0 per cent
Hybrid: 98,439 sales, up 20.3 per cent
Electric: 87,217 sales, up 161.1 per cent
PHEV: 11,212 sales, up 8.8 per cent
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8477752/australias-top-selling-electric-cars-in-2023/ (https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8477752/australias-top-selling-electric-cars-in-2023/)
So hybrid sales currently match EV plus PHEV(imposter?) sales so should the shrewd investor buy Toyota or Tesla shares? Decisions....decisions...?
Post by: Hairs on January 09, 2024, 12:59:57 PM
Otherwise it's just pretending
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: WilSurf on January 09, 2024, 01:36:21 PM
Post by: Hairs on January 09, 2024, 01:54:44 PM
Why?I'm taken the p155 out this whole, green energy crap(imo).
Do you remember 15 years ago or so, you could purchase 'Green Power' from your power supplier?
You were charged a higher tariff for this 'Green Power' privilege.
The money from this was to fund the transition to green power, it lined the pockets of those who had their snout in the trough.
The next scheme was Solar panels on your roof.
We invested $15K in our system, which are are lucky to get 6cent a KW now.
Our house insurance was I creased because of the panels.
Seems every week, there is a new household item that needs power to operate, :(
We had our PM attend COP28, beside albo flying there, Australia sent over 100 public servants to tell the rest of us that we have to go green.
He's not called Airbus Albo for nothing.
Industry, is telling the goverment that there will not be enough energy in the system and to expect blackouts.
Which we seem to have most weekends.
Anyway, if people want to believe they are saving the planet by buying an electric vehicle, they have a right to believe that, and do that.
:)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Hairs on January 09, 2024, 07:54:24 PM
Australia sells high grade Coal, Yellow Cake to the world.
We are closing our power stations, the Greens have Australians Shit scared of Nuclear.
How farken stupid are we?
Well played Australia.
Yet you are convinced that buying an electric vehicle is going to save the planet.
Open your eyes and see what the power houses of the world are doing.
They are selling us this utopia
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: RebsWA on January 10, 2024, 12:48:40 AM
Just to Add,
Australia sells high grade Coal, Yellow Cake to the world.
We are closing our power stations, the Greens have Australians Shit scared of Nuclear.
How farken stupid are we?
Well played Australia.
Yet you are convinced that buying an electric vehicle is going to save the planet.
Open your eyes and see what the power houses of the world are doing.
They are selling us this utopia
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
:cup: Agree wholeheartedly :cup:
Post by: Bird on January 10, 2024, 02:12:14 PM
Just to Add,
Australia sells high grade Coal, Yellow Cake to the world.
We are closing our power stations, the Greens have Australians Shit scared of Nuclear.
How farken stupid are we?
Well played Australia.
I was watching a vid on youtube where the bloke looked at the total number of vehicles in Australia, against the total generating output of all our power stations. If everything converts to battery power in the national fleet we won't have enough electricity generation to charge them each day.
Post by: Hairs on January 10, 2024, 02:28:59 PM
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: monbeg on January 10, 2024, 02:51:32 PM
I was watching a vid on youtube where the bloke looked at the total number of vehicles in Australia, against the total generating output of all our power stations. If everything converts to battery power in the national fleet we won't have enough electricity generation to charge them each day.
An upmarket (read expensive) apartment development here in Radelaide advertised that each car park would have an electric vehicle charge point.
After completion only 1 in 3 of the apartments had one, the reason, "the grid is not capable of supporting any more".
Post by: Hairs on January 10, 2024, 06:12:23 PM
Those that wanted to install air-conditioning submitted an application to the local energy mob.
Some had to pay for transformer upgrades, and other network upgrades before the go ahead was given.
Now, I maybe wrong, but over time I haven't seen much infrastructure upgrades in our town.
So what has changed for people to use more electricity
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 12, 2024, 12:12:51 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/companies/car-rental-firm-hertz-to-sell-20-000-evs-for-gas-powered-vehicles/ar-AA1mO2TU (https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/companies/car-rental-firm-hertz-to-sell-20-000-evs-for-gas-powered-vehicles/ar-AA1mO2TU)
PS: Blame Tesla ;)
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/hertz-is-walking-back-a-big-bet-on-evs-here-s-what-s-really-going-on/ar-AA1mPC0R (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/hertz-is-walking-back-a-big-bet-on-evs-here-s-what-s-really-going-on/ar-AA1mPC0R)
Post by: hainess on January 12, 2024, 04:04:31 PM
https://www.france24.com/en/france/20240109-france-drops-renewables-targets-prioritises-nuclear-in-new-energy-bill.
Post by: Hairs on January 17, 2024, 06:42:17 AM
Two cars, one petrol, the other electric.
Melbourne to Sydney.
https://youtu.be/JSGjVOkM0jU?si=l3vC2ZeSthf-lSZn (https://youtu.be/JSGjVOkM0jU?si=l3vC2ZeSthf-lSZn)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Foo on January 17, 2024, 07:23:44 AM
Sorry if this has been posted.
Two cars, one petrol, the other electric.
Melbourne to Sydney.
https://youtu.be/JSGjVOkM0jU?si=l3vC2ZeSthf-lSZn (https://youtu.be/JSGjVOkM0jU?si=l3vC2ZeSthf-lSZn)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Can't forking watch that with the 5mins of adds before you look like getting to the test! >:(
Foo
Post by: Hairs on January 17, 2024, 08:50:32 AM
Can't forking watch that with the 5mins of adds before you look like getting to the test! >:(Sorry mate,
Foo
When I click on the link it's
5 seconds of one ad, then I can skip to the story.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: jclures on January 17, 2024, 09:06:17 AM
Post by: Bird on January 17, 2024, 09:29:59 AM
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook (https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook)
Post by: prodigyrf on January 17, 2024, 11:08:21 AM
dont use it for the holiday to the snow..
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook (https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook)
It wasn't just in Chicago- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKbAnOYUigo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKbAnOYUigo)
Experienced pro advises don't leave it unattended at home charging in the garage- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itGeAq9rBeY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itGeAq9rBeY)
Presumably you need a fire/smoke alarm monitor too in the garage to get some shuteye?
Insurance underwriters are going to call time on all this despite the politicians and their mainstream media lackeys sprinkling fairy dust.
Post by: Fizzie on January 17, 2024, 02:13:56 PM
No, hang on a minute, up! :'(
Umm, nah, dunno, it's complicated! ::) :-\
https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2024-01-17/where-are-electric-and-petrol-vehicle-prices-going-in-2024/103306894 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2024-01-17/where-are-electric-and-petrol-vehicle-prices-going-in-2024/103306894)
At the very least, lower battery prices may carry forward into home & camping batteries ???
Post by: WilSurf on January 17, 2024, 03:23:03 PM
Can't wait to drive it and not getting into a queue for petrol.
Post by: RebsWA on January 17, 2024, 04:01:03 PM
I have ordered our EV.
Can't wait to drive it and not getting into a queue for petrol.
No, just join the queue for charging. >:D
Post by: WilSurf on January 17, 2024, 04:23:03 PM
It will be used in the city.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 17, 2024, 10:34:22 PM
No need for as we will be charging at home.
It will be used in the city.
Makes sense under the circumstances-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKQi3ELYbVk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKQi3ELYbVk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgUieFv7kGg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgUieFv7kGg)
Post by: prodigyrf on January 18, 2024, 10:35:30 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12971877/Auto-website-CarExperts-Sydney-Melbourne-road-trip-reveals-shocking-truth-EVs-cheaper-run-petrol-cars.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12971877/Auto-website-CarExperts-Sydney-Melbourne-road-trip-reveals-shocking-truth-EVs-cheaper-run-petrol-cars.html)
and while Australian ICE car owners pay 53.68c/litre incl GST doing that the freeloading by well to do EV owners can't continue-
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/506914/changes-to-road-user-charges-will-see-ev-owners-paying-more-climate-expert-says (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/506914/changes-to-road-user-charges-will-see-ev-owners-paying-more-climate-expert-says)
Post by: WilSurf on January 18, 2024, 01:27:33 PM
It changes when you use your home power.
In WA it's $0.27per kW, if you are using solar it's "costing" you $0.07 because you don't get the tariff.
Post by: sparksy on January 18, 2024, 09:48:56 PM
https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/motoring/major-provider-zaps-electric-car-owners-with-higher-rates-c-13188373 (https://thewest.com.au/lifestyle/motoring/major-provider-zaps-electric-car-owners-with-higher-rates-c-13188373)
Post by: RebsWA on January 18, 2024, 10:46:43 PM
In WA it's $0.27per kW, if you are using solar it's "costing" you $0.07 because you don't get the tariff.
Wilsurf, can u explain that statement a bit better please?
Post by: WilSurf on January 19, 2024, 10:59:09 AM
When you charge at home without solar, I would pay $0.280109 per kW.
That's the tariff I am on in WA.
However because I have solar, when I charge during the day I am not importing electricty meaning it doesn't cost $0.280109 per kW.
But because I charge I am not exporting the electricity generated to the grid either.
That would have paid me $0.07135 per kW.
So in summary, every kW charging the EV at home during the day when I generate electricity with my solar panels, it will increase my power bill by $0.7135 for each kW I charge.
In case of the car we are getting which has a 60.4kW battery, a full charge from 0-100% will add $16.92
Hope that makes sense.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 19, 2024, 03:57:34 PM
But alas grandpa Fred only left $24k so a car loan at 8% on the $19876 difference costs me another $1590 a year. Might cut that down to 6% redrawing on the home mortgage if available but that's still $1192 and also paying back that principal. That's before our enthusiastic climate changing car buyer begins to think about the biggie in depreciation and then insurance servicing tyres etc.
Post by: WilSurf on January 19, 2024, 04:42:31 PM
So I am already saving 44% compared to you IF I charge when the sun isn't shining.
Using your calculation my EV would cost $672 for fuel IF I only charge when the sun isn't shining.
When using the solar panels, is cost me nothing but I am not getting the $168 solar export price.
If I take that into acount, 15,000km each year will cost me $168.
Post by: Hairs on January 19, 2024, 05:06:51 PM
So, what don't batteries like?
Heat, Cold, constant draw over and over. Is that correct?
Now, What do batteries like?
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: WilSurf on January 19, 2024, 05:58:45 PM
Post by: Hairs on January 19, 2024, 06:47:01 PM
Being used; charging and drawn from.And being replaced.
Sorry, suppliers love you to replace them.
Just going by my experience using 18V lithium power tool batteries.
I have 8, 5amp. I cycle them through, recharge, religiously, just in the last month I have had two fail, won't take a charge. They are only 24 months old.
$189.00 a pop, $8 a month.
Sure I can claim on tax, but I still have to outlay the purchase.
So who has had to replace batteries in their EV?
What's that cost.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Hairs on January 19, 2024, 07:06:36 PM
2 years ago, only 10% of lithium batteries was recycled. Yes, this is increasing, unfortunately most still goes to land fill.
Kinda ironic, since it was dug out of the ground, it's thrown back in.
Yes, some are stored, for when it becomes efficient to recycle.
I guess like solar panels, wind turbine blades.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 20, 2024, 12:37:57 AM
Glad I am not living in SA with $0.50 per kW.
Well you will be when you have to get on those cheap renewables instead of the coal and gas-
https://www.synergy.net.au/Blog/2022/06/What-makes-up-the-electricity-generation-mix-in-Western-Australia (https://www.synergy.net.au/Blog/2022/06/What-makes-up-the-electricity-generation-mix-in-Western-Australia)
and it's pretty hard for working commuters to charge their EVs at home during the day even with solar on the rooftop.
So say you're retired like me and you can? But what you forgot to cost in was the $5000 to $6000 worth of say 5kW rooftop solar plus $1500 of home charger install and the opportunity cost of those funds. Not a problem for me but what about those working families with mortgages or renters? Bearing in mind they're reducing the rooftop solar subsidy by $500/year until it's full user pays and they're no doubt working on how to make up for lost fuel excise at 53.68c/litre currently. You wouldn't last long in biz ignoring some capital costs and their opportunity cost of funds as well as their depreciation.
Post by: RebsWA on January 20, 2024, 01:34:43 AM
Very simple.
When you charge at home without solar, I would pay $0.280109 per kW.
That's the tariff I am on in WA.
However because I have solar, when I charge during the day I am not importing electricty meaning it doesn't cost $0.280109 per kW.
But because I charge I am not exporting the electricity generated to the grid either.
That would have paid me $0.07135 per kW.
So in summary, every kW charging the EV at home during the day when I generate electricity with my solar panels, it will increase my power bill by $0.7135 for each kW I charge.
In case of the car we are getting which has a 60.4kW battery, a full charge from 0-100% will add $16.92
Hope that makes sense.
Sorry mate, not really. I live in WA too, have roof top solar since about 2015 with same import/export cost.
I sort of agree with some but not your summary.
Not importing electricity during the day though, needs some clarification.
How big in terms of consumption is the rating of the EV battery charger you are planning to install use?
Are you saying you can run your household and charge the EV without importing mains power? (365 day a year)
In your summary I do not understand why your power bill will rise 7 cents per kW when charging the EV.
I cannot see how you arrive at $16.92 for a full charge.
I am not trying to be difficult, rather just understand your post.
If I consume mains power it costs 27cents per kW. What happens to the kW's my solar produces are either consumed by my combined electrical appliances or exported to the grid for a whole 7c per kW.
Cant see why it would be any different in your case.
Post by: GeoffA on January 20, 2024, 05:55:27 AM
Can a home EV charger be configured to charge only from the rooftop solar?
If yes, how does it manage the variation in solar output during the day due to sun angle and cloud cover?
A charge rate that continually ramps up and down can't be good for batteries....
:cheers:
Post by: Brij on January 20, 2024, 06:43:08 AM
Sorry mate, not really. I live in WA too, have roof top solar since about 2015 with same import/export cost.
I sort of agree with some but not your summary.
Not importing electricity during the day though, needs some clarification.
How big in terms of consumption is the rating of the EV battery charger you are planning to install use?
Are you saying you can run your household and charge the EV without importing mains power? (365 day a year)
In your summary I do not understand why your power bill will rise 7 cents per kW when charging the EV.
I cannot see how you arrive at $16.92 for a full charge.
I am not trying to be difficult, rather just understand your post.
If I consume mains power it costs 27cents per kW. What happens to the kW's my solar produces are either consumed by my combined electrical appliances or exported to the grid for a whole 7c per kW.
Cant see why it would be any different in your case.
Re the "cost" of $0.07/kw -
I assume this works on the premise that whilst you are exporting power you end up with $0.07/kw in your pocket, but whilst charging your EV you don't, so it is money you would of got, but now you don't.
But if you convert this cost to $/km of travel and compare to $/km of travel for ICE then I expect you would be better of, but hard to ignore the capital cost of EV.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 20, 2024, 08:28:00 AM
Genuine questions....sorry if they've already been covered...
Can a home EV charger be configured to charge only from the rooftop solar?
If yes, how does it manage the variation in solar output during the day due to sun angle and cloud cover?
A charge rate that continually ramps up and down can't be good for batteries....
:cheers:
No rooftop solar works in 2 ways with net grid metering. It either reduces the cost of kWhrs your total home is consuming while it's generating or if it's exceeding consumption you're getting the FIT rate for the excess at the time. Whether your home is on single phase or 3 phase each phase needs to be 240V and 50Hz for whatever is operating on them and in that sense your solar inverter is reactive to the grid input and cannot input any power when the grid is down or indeed badly out of whack with voltage and frequency.(why they want to throttle your solar remotely if too many are causing that)
Post by: Hairs on January 20, 2024, 03:43:22 PM
As I had mentioned in an earlier post, society is being more reliant on electricity.
The article was about DATA storage.
Everything we do, we rely on an electric powered device.
Gps, traffic lights, office. Homes are becoming dependent on technology. Lights, fridges, TV's Internet, phones, banks, service stations, charging stations all use and collect DATA.
Companies are building huge data complex's to store this data.
The power needed to cool this is a massive amount of power, which the Grid struggles to supply at the moment.
And there is the added supply to charge vehicles
Solar & wind, are they capable of supplying this demand?
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 20, 2024, 07:05:17 PM
Should you see any hint of runaway then run like Hell away from it and upwind yelling for others to do the same.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 20, 2024, 09:07:18 PM
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/jan/16/adelaide-mobility-scooter-fire-man-death-crestview-retirement-village (https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2024/jan/16/adelaide-mobility-scooter-fire-man-death-crestview-retirement-village)
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/overseas-visitors-make-lucky-escape-after-e-bike-battery-blaze/vi-AA1nd9Am (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/overseas-visitors-make-lucky-escape-after-e-bike-battery-blaze/vi-AA1nd9Am)
The climate changers have to face the bleeding obvious before a Grenfell Towers incident but in any case insurance underwriters will soon call time on their indolence with prohibitive premiums.
Post by: Pottsy on January 21, 2024, 02:49:06 PM
Post by: Hairs on January 21, 2024, 04:23:02 PM
Was just about to post it.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Fizzie on January 22, 2024, 07:01:14 AM
Its coming soon.
We had them yonks back!
https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-141694993/view (https://nla.gov.au/nla.obj-141694993/view)
Same thing - the sugar cane is being converted into biofuel as they go! ;D
Post by: WilSurf on January 22, 2024, 10:40:24 AM
Genuine questions....sorry if they've already been covered...
Can a home EV charger be configured to charge only from the rooftop solar?
If yes, how does it manage the variation in solar output during the day due to sun angle and cloud cover?
A charge rate that continually ramps up and down can't be good for batteries....
:cheers:
Yes, there are charges which only charge when there is solar input.
Post by: WilSurf on January 22, 2024, 10:46:35 AM
Well Wilsurf you say-
Glad I am not living in SA with $0.50 per kW.
Well you will be when you have to get on those cheap renewables instead of the coal and gas-
https://www.synergy.net.au/Blog/2022/06/What-makes-up-the-electricity-generation-mix-in-Western-Australia (https://www.synergy.net.au/Blog/2022/06/What-makes-up-the-electricity-generation-mix-in-Western-Australia)
and it's pretty hard for working commuters to charge their EVs at home during the day even with solar on the rooftop.
So say you're retired like me and you can? But what you forgot to cost in was the $5000 to $6000 worth of say 5kW rooftop solar plus $1500 of home charger install and the opportunity cost of those funds. Not a problem for me but what about those working families with mortgages or renters? Bearing in mind they're reducing the rooftop solar subsidy by $500/year until it's full user pays and they're no doubt working on how to make up for lost fuel excise at 53.68c/litre currently. You wouldn't last long in biz ignoring some capital costs and their opportunity cost of funds as well as their depreciation.
That is a few years old.
My understanding is that the coal power station in Collie is no longer in operation.
How far is the commute for the average worker? Around 30 km.
What is the range of a new EV? Around 300km. So the average commuter can drive a full week to and from work without the need to charge.
I am not retired, still work, and have a mortgage. But we had installed a solar system 8 years ago which is paying for itself for the last few years.
Post by: WilSurf on January 22, 2024, 10:52:04 AM
Sorry mate, not really. I live in WA too, have roof top solar since about 2015 with same import/export cost.
I sort of agree with some but not your summary.
Not importing electricity during the day though, needs some clarification.
How big in terms of consumption is the rating of the EV battery charger you are planning to install use?
Are you saying you can run your household and charge the EV without importing mains power? (365 day a year)
In your summary I do not understand why your power bill will rise 7 cents per kW when charging the EV.
I cannot see how you arrive at $16.92 for a full charge.
I am not trying to be difficult, rather just understand your post.
If I consume mains power it costs 27cents per kW. What happens to the kW's my solar produces are either consumed by my combined electrical appliances or exported to the grid for a whole 7c per kW.
Cant see why it would be any different in your case.
What I meant to say is that if we charge the car from 0% to 100% by using the grid and no solar, it will cost me $16.92 (60.4kW * $0.28)
Post by: RebsWA on January 22, 2024, 01:29:55 PM
What I meant to say is that if we charge the car from 0% to 100% by using the grid and no solar, it will cost me $16.92 (60.4kW * $0.28)Thanks. That answers one of the questions.
Post by: WilSurf on January 22, 2024, 01:57:29 PM
Thanks. That answers one of the questions.
To answer your other questions.
- we are planning not to install a battery charger yet, will see how it goes. As the car will be used only for short trips <25 km each way, I don't see there is no need for a bigger charger.
- I am not saying we can run the house wiyhout importing at all. That's not even the case now without an EV. But we are down to around $120 each bill cycle.
- Our system is obvious thesame as yours. The produce kWs will be either used by the appliances or exported. What I wanted to message was that the only difference in cost compared to the linked articles which is charging at public DC chargers, our cost will be either at $0.28 per kW or $0.07 per kW charged compared to the quoted $0.50 per kW.
Post by: RebsWA on January 22, 2024, 02:02:32 PM
To answer your other questions.Thanks for your responses. I'll leave it at that.
- we are planning not to install a battery charger yet, will see how it goes. As the car will be used only for short trips <25 km each way, I don't see there is no need for a bigger charger.
- I am not saying we can run the house wiyhout importing at all. That's not even the case now without an EV. But we are down to around $120 each bill cycle.
- Our system is obvious thesame as yours. The produce kWs will be either used by the appliances or exported. What I wanted to message was that the only difference in cost compared to the linked articles which is charging at public DC chargers, our cost will be either at $0.28 per kW or $0.07 per kW charged compared to the quoted $0.50 per kW.
Post by: prodigyrf on January 22, 2024, 09:20:29 PM
https://www.energymatters.com.au/energy-efficiency/australian-electricity-statistics/ (https://www.energymatters.com.au/energy-efficiency/australian-electricity-statistics/)
You can follow NEM mix and pricing here clicking on the Fuel Mix tab etc-
https://aemo.com.au/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem (https://aemo.com.au/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem)
Early on with Qld experiencing high heat and consequent demand their wholesale price hit $112/kWhr but luckily NSW could ramp up coal and gas for them and now prices have settled down.
Note earlier in the day with sunny solar WA was only using 30% fossil fuel power and you can see the problem getting rid of coal and gas altogether. Attempting that along with electrification of transport will see all night time become the very expensive peak period and note how in SA we're already paying 50-54c/kWhr peak rates. No probs according to the brains trust we'll put up lots of offshore windmills but they're not making money and want a lot more consumer price rises above what's being sqwarked about already-
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/energy-bills-must-rise-pay-120000357.html (https://finance.yahoo.com/news/energy-bills-must-rise-pay-120000357.html)
We live in interesting times.
Post by: Bird on January 24, 2024, 02:14:51 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftMxCehD08U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftMxCehD08U)
Post by: prodigyrf on January 27, 2024, 06:06:48 PM
https://thedriven.io/2024/01/26/australias-biggest-utility-begins-charging-trial-with-promise-to-fill-up-evs-for-5/ (https://thedriven.io/2024/01/26/australias-biggest-utility-begins-charging-trial-with-promise-to-fill-up-evs-for-5/)
...the trial was ultimately designed to work out the best ways to manage car-charging demand.
“Not too far from now, we’ll be in 2030 and there’ll be something like three million EVs on the road,” he said.
“If all of those EVs turn up back at home at 6pm and plug into charge at the same time, we don’t have a grid that can handle that.”
Post by: prodigyrf on February 23, 2024, 01:42:44 PM
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/02/22/eu-proposed-ban-on-repairing-cars-older-than-15-years/ (https://wattsupwiththat.com/2024/02/22/eu-proposed-ban-on-repairing-cars-older-than-15-years/)
Post by: prodigyrf on March 06, 2024, 09:07:47 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/our-us-electric-car-road-trip-charging-disaster-and-what-it-means-for-australia/ar-BB1jnQBx (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/our-us-electric-car-road-trip-charging-disaster-and-what-it-means-for-australia/ar-BB1jnQBx)
Otherwise the sensible choice is hybrid ICE and why they outsell EVs even though Toyota can't make them fast enough to satisfy demand-
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/vfacts-february-2024-another-record-month-for-australian-new-car-sales (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/vfacts-february-2024-another-record-month-for-australian-new-car-sales)
Sales by propulsion or fuel type
Petrol: 46,533 sales, up 4.5 per cent
Diesel: 32,022 sales, up 21.1 per cent
Hybrid: 11,447 sales, up 100.2 per cent
Electric: 10,111 sales, up 70.4 per cent
Plug-in hybrid: 1034 sales, up 127.8 per cent
In any case basic ICE transport kills EVs for running costs because of awful EV depreciation before the price of all those coffees.
Post by: WilSurf on March 06, 2024, 10:27:23 AM
Post by: Bird on March 06, 2024, 02:58:41 PM
(https://i.imgflip.com/6n1lwc.jpg)
if your doing it for short trips to work and back, all the power to you.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/electric-vehicles-worse-for-environment-than-petrol-cars-study-finds/news-story/2cc371a90a1f24275d864c893a629fea (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/electric-vehicles-worse-for-environment-than-petrol-cars-study-finds/news-story/2cc371a90a1f24275d864c893a629fea)
Post by: prodigyrf on March 06, 2024, 03:05:11 PM
We have taken ownership of an EV and love it.
Yes they make great urban runabouts and cheap on fuel if you have rooftop solar which I have and ability to charge at home. Took the missus for a test drive early days with the BYD Atto 3 and a mate even bought one with NSW $3k rebate and before they went up $3k. Personally if we wanted one I'd go for a Tesla because of their charge network but too much depreciation for my liking with all of them. Hence we chopped the missus 4 year 4 month old Picanto in for the bigger StonicS because of the need to ferry the grandkids in kid seats.
But here's the rub with Labor's new blanket CO2 emissions penalty system beginning Jan1 2026. My low km 2015 diesel Challenger will see me out towing and 4WDing but younguns and tradies with that age diesel had best grab a new one in 2025 at the latest before they take an ugly price hike. Same with all petrol and diesel cars whereas best to put off an EV that will be cross subsidised by the scheme after 2026. With a 3 year old StonicS I've already put a deposit on a GLX Corolla Cross hybrid with anticipated delivery in 10 months time.
Get in and beat the rush ICE buyers particularly with thirsty big metal but no hurry if you're taking the plunge with EVs.
Post by: WilSurf on March 06, 2024, 03:43:45 PM
As we have a solar system on our roof, at the moment we are charging between 8am and 5pm when the sun is up.
The car is only used for trips to theshop, the gym and my wife's work.
Perfect suited for the job and cheap to run.
Everyone to it's own, but there seems to be so much negativity towards EVs that is not funny anymore.
Post by: prodigyrf on March 06, 2024, 04:00:16 PM
Post by: RebsWA on March 06, 2024, 05:35:41 PM
We got the BYD Dolphin and am awaing the WA rebate of $3,500.
As we have a solar system on our roof, at the moment we are charging between 8am and 5pm when the sun is up.
The car is only used for trips to theshop, the gym and my wife's work.
Perfect suited for the job and cheap to run.
Everyone to it's own, but there seems to be so much negativity towards EVs that is not funny anymore.
Negativity?
IMO there are very few EV's available that will only benefit a small percentage of the population. The rest are marketing experiments.
In your situation you are one of the few and that's good. Am I correct to assume your wife works from home given the charge times?
My negativity or more correctly, my considered opinion is, I do not believe the BS that collectively EV's will reduce carbon etc and save the planet when clearly they will not.
The pro EV crowd and the government do not seem to acknowledge that the "pollution" is simply moved from the tail pipe to places out of sight.
Canberra is pushing the EV issue cos their political lives depend on keeping the greens happy.
All the taxes and incentives they are dreaming up will ultimately result in the vehicles the majority of the population want and for good reasons being out of their financial reach.
Once that happens, what then, there will be little chance of turning back.
I am also interested in the expected cost of ownership of EV's as there is little data to date.
It would seem at this point in time to be an expensive vehicle, short life, prohibitive battery replacement cost with little resale value.
I find it interesting that some of the big ICE manufactures are winding down/putting on hold or whatever, EV manufacturing.
Bit strange if its the future of motoring, one would think they would be going gangbusters for a share of the market.
Here in WA light rail is pushing ahead and it seems a far better (greener) solution to moving people, but not much if any green noise about that.
FWIW I form my opinion based on research to sort out the fiction from fact.
Post by: prodigyrf on March 06, 2024, 06:05:32 PM
Yes largely to coal fired China that now burns 55% of the world's coal and why Western manufacturing is uncompetitive (we got out of subsidising carmaking with fortuitous timing)-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/how-europe-wants-to-punish-chinese-carmakers/ar-BB1joRnZ (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/how-europe-wants-to-punish-chinese-carmakers/ar-BB1joRnZ)
With all the fairy dust sprinkled around about a renewables future you can click on the 'Fuel Mix' tab here every night when the sun sets and you'll regularly observe fossil fuelled electricity running at 70-85% of all power generated (currently 72%)-
https://aemo.com.au/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem (https://aemo.com.au/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem)
Get rid of coal and ICE cars for commuter charging and welcome to peak night rates in the long run.
Post by: prodigyrf on March 07, 2024, 07:07:23 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-german-tesla-plant-fire-is-claimed-by-far-left-volcano-group/ar-BB1jqKD6 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/the-german-tesla-plant-fire-is-claimed-by-far-left-volcano-group/ar-BB1jqKD6)
As for changing the weather with windmills and solar panels just be careful the Volcano Group don't want to start throwing virgins into volcanos to placate Gaia because when folk stop believing in God to explain the inexplicable they'll believe in anything :cheers:
Post by: GeoffA on March 07, 2024, 05:21:56 PM
...if your doing it for short trips to work and back, all the power to you....
If that's all it's used for, why bother??
Post by: Bird on March 07, 2024, 06:16:29 PM
Quote from: GeoffA
If that's all it's used for, why bother??
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/23/23dca68836a9cfe5cf682fd76c99c4223bffea38256d16ff0cb31feffde5f680.jpg)
Post by: shanegtr on March 08, 2024, 08:30:35 AM
Well, if you consider Hertz rental cars in the US then cost of fleet ownership is fairly well settled, they are more expensive. They are dumping their fleet of rental EV's as the numbers just don't add up
I am also interested in the expected cost of ownership of EV's as there is little data to date.
Post by: rags on March 08, 2024, 08:12:07 PM
The car is only used for trips to the shop, the gym and my wife's work.
My 2005 Suzuki Swift can do all that except I don’t drive it to the Gym and happy not to visit the wife at work.
Cheap motoring, basic third party insurance, tank of juice about once a month and is probably worth less than the govt rebate for an EV.
Great alternative to running around in the 300s
Post by: Hairs on March 10, 2024, 05:53:27 PM
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: WilSurf on March 11, 2024, 10:49:27 AM
My 2005 Suzuki Swift can do all that except I don’t drive it to the Gym and happy not to visit the wife at work.
Cheap motoring, basic third party insurance, tank of juice about once a month and is probably worth less than the govt rebate for an EV.
Great alternative to running around in the 300s
We don'thave a 2005 Swift so the EV it is.
Post by: prodigyrf on March 13, 2024, 05:02:52 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/ev-row-why-chinese-electric-cars-like-byd-and-mg-could-be-a-security-risk-as-aussies-are-forced-to-ditch-petrol-and-diesel-utes-and-suvs/ar-BB1jNy83 (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/ev-row-why-chinese-electric-cars-like-byd-and-mg-could-be-a-security-risk-as-aussies-are-forced-to-ditch-petrol-and-diesel-utes-and-suvs/ar-BB1jNy83)
Proudly brought to you by the esteemed freedom loving climate changers that burn 55% of the world's coal and growing :cup:
Post by: WilSurf on March 13, 2024, 06:04:54 PM
Post by: Hairs on March 16, 2024, 11:51:31 AM
https://au.news.yahoo.com/young-aussies-inundated-with-calls-after-finding-solution-to-major-electric-vehicle-problem-071239183.html?guccounter=1 (https://au.news.yahoo.com/young-aussies-inundated-with-calls-after-finding-solution-to-major-electric-vehicle-problem-071239183.html?guccounter=1)
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: prodigyrf on March 18, 2024, 12:37:04 PM
They have more chargers but then they also have lots more EVs clogging them up and that will always be the problem as there's no real economic case for most public chargers. (Tesla already worked that out). So that only really leaves city slickers with offstreet parking and charging and no doubt why there's now over 550 used Model3 Teslas predominantly by private sellers on Carsales (2019s from $37000 asking price and dropping) :'(
Depreciation is killing EVs to boot so it's a 10 month estimated order wait for the missus new Corolla Cross hybrid shopping trolley but I'm not holding my breath if that blows out as her petrol Kia is only 3 yrs old and isn't going anywhere. Bowen and Co are smoking something they shouldn't.
So it's the same in Europe as it is in the US right now as word gets around- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuz3UQpiqQE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuz3UQpiqQE)
Post by: prodigyrf on March 18, 2024, 09:31:33 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZysvgm2_Aw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZysvgm2_Aw)
He likes his cars and can certainly afford whatever he likes but he's really nailed the state of play with battery cars for now. Up to you whether you take his advice or not but I'm sticking with hybrid replacements now and that spells Toyota for mine.
Post by: WilSurf on March 19, 2024, 10:19:23 AM
Post by: Black174 on March 19, 2024, 10:41:51 AM
Recently decided to move back north, so two vehicle was a pain.
There was never a scenario where i will sell the LC76, so sold the Tesla.
Was a great car, but my V8 is still king.
Post by: wilson79 on March 20, 2024, 12:37:32 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on March 20, 2024, 06:57:05 PM
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/youre-too-late-for-a-toyota-landcruiser-v8-even-order-holders-now-uncertain-to-secure-70 (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/youre-too-late-for-a-toyota-landcruiser-v8-even-order-holders-now-uncertain-to-secure-70)
If there are any thirsty ICE cars around in the showrooms come late December no doubt the dealers will register and demo them before Jan1.
Get your orders in for PHEVs or hybrids as most won't cop a price penalty in the first year but the CO2 limbo bar gets progressively lower each year after that and will eventually catch hybrids too.
Post by: prodigyrf on March 20, 2024, 09:24:13 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/isuzu-confirms-electric-d-max-ute-for-australia/ar-BB1kbzWd (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/isuzu-confirms-electric-d-max-ute-for-australia/ar-BB1kbzWd)
So what do you do as an Isuzu owner right now? OTOH your diesel becomes more desirable with only an EV option that could cost north of the Haval electric at $93k plus ORC but OTO if the battery Isuzus are a flop too they're likely to pull out of Oz altogether. You end up with a Ssangyong Holden or Daewoo etc. Decisions.... decisions.... and thanks Bowen and Co. Diesels are finished for light transport and Toyota are going to make a killing with petrol hybrids and their 1:6:90 rule-
https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/hybrids-better-for-the-environment-than-electric-cars-toyota (https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/hybrids-better-for-the-environment-than-electric-cars-toyota)
Paying through the nose for EGR/inlet manifold clogging and DPF and Adblue? Get real.
Edit: Smacks forehead! Apologies as it was of course the memorable LDV battery ute that sold one in February :cup:
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/2023-ldv-et60-price-and-specs-stand-back-ford-ranger-and-toyota-hilux-australias-first (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/2023-ldv-et60-price-and-specs-stand-back-ford-ranger-and-toyota-hilux-australias-first)
Post by: Bird on April 18, 2024, 10:25:34 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-13311781/Musk-culls-14-000-jobs-Tesla-electric-car-giant-grapples-falling-sales.html?ito=social-facebook (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-13311781/Musk-culls-14-000-jobs-Tesla-electric-car-giant-grapples-falling-sales.html?ito=social-facebook)
Post by: wilson79 on April 19, 2024, 07:30:11 AM
Full steam backwards.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-13311781/Musk-culls-14-000-jobs-Tesla-electric-car-giant-grapples-falling-sales.html?ito=social-facebook (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/markets/article-13311781/Musk-culls-14-000-jobs-Tesla-electric-car-giant-grapples-falling-sales.html?ito=social-facebook)
I read that Rivan in the US are also cutting staff. It also appears that Europe is also seeing a decline in EV sales. Interesting to see what happens next..
Post by: Pottsy on April 19, 2024, 08:46:46 AM
He also made enquires re a new Kia EV6 battery replacement, a cool 48k. ( seems incredibly high to me) Average hybrid battery replacements 3.5k to 7k.
Post by: prodigyrf on April 19, 2024, 05:53:53 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/fire-authorities-warn-of-lithium-ion-battery-risks-after-two-students-narrowly-escape-melbourne-fire/ar-AA1ndwWr (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/fire-authorities-warn-of-lithium-ion-battery-risks-after-two-students-narrowly-escape-melbourne-fire/ar-AA1ndwWr)
EVs are simply much larger potential incendiaries and massing more and more of them together presents exponential risk whatever starts it. However it's more likely the insurance underwriters will be the first to really pull the rug out from under EV demand with unaffordable premiums in that regard.
Post by: Rowlie on April 19, 2024, 07:40:14 PM
BTW - I am a firm believer that ultimately we will all be driving something other than ICE vehicles - as we currently know them. For the reason detailed above alone I think the road will be bumpier than the GRR. It is going to be a journey that is worthy of many tonnes of popcorn as we watch it unfold.
Rowlie
Post by: Fizzie on April 19, 2024, 08:28:16 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on April 19, 2024, 11:22:53 PM
https://www.australianmanufacturing.com.au/tritium-evie-networks-to-install-more-than-300-ev-fast-chargers-across-australia/ (https://www.australianmanufacturing.com.au/tritium-evie-networks-to-install-more-than-300-ev-fast-chargers-across-australia/)
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/news/australian-ev-charging-manufacturer-tritium-goes-into-administration/ar-AA1nhfqX (https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/news/australian-ev-charging-manufacturer-tritium-goes-into-administration/ar-AA1nhfqX)
and with Qenos closing down there won't be any chance of local polymer for the backsheets of our new 'superpower' solar panels
https://www.skynews.com.au/business/qenos-a-strategically-important-plastics-manufacturer-collapses-into-administration/video/9894b01cbaefb55a67107b543f718803 (https://www.skynews.com.au/business/qenos-a-strategically-important-plastics-manufacturer-collapses-into-administration/video/9894b01cbaefb55a67107b543f718803)
Time for the Canberra brains trust to fire up the old Holden plant to produce battery Cruzes methinks. Not to worry it's only helicopter money like the covid money still washing through the economy and bobbing up with those supermarket prices and everything else.
Post by: westvic on April 20, 2024, 06:55:06 PM
https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-chery-hybrid-suv-can-drive-from-sydney-to-adelaide-on-one-tank/ (https://www.drive.com.au/news/new-chery-hybrid-suv-can-drive-from-sydney-to-adelaide-on-one-tank/)
Basically just an elec vehicle with a built in ICE generator. The ICE engine can be tuned perfectly for one job rather than having to provide power/torque over a wide rev range. Short trips are completely elec driven and (hopefully) plug it in at home to only charge a small battery
Post by: WilSurf on April 22, 2024, 03:19:34 PM
Interesting.
Post by: Mace on April 22, 2024, 05:49:08 PM
Looks like prodigyrf is trolling the internet for anything against EV/lithium.
Interesting.
Yep... so be it.... I ignored this post until saw your reply... Thats what he does...
I spent the whole day in a work Kia EV around Hobart, worked for me. Thats what they are for.. 120 km plus.
:cheers:
Post by: Mace on April 22, 2024, 06:28:02 PM
Yep... so be it.... I ignored this post until saw your reply... Thats what he does...
I spent the whole day in a work Kia EV around Hobart, worked for me. Thats what they are for.. 120 km plus..
:cheers:
so there we go.. Not much interesting comment but...
Hey Podigyrf, All good, you will catch up and be a late user so be it. :cheers:
:cheers:
Post by: WilSurf on April 23, 2024, 01:14:16 PM
An ICE caught on fire.
Post by: RebsWA on April 23, 2024, 03:25:37 PM
Post by: WilSurf on April 23, 2024, 04:09:06 PM
Post by: RebsWA on April 23, 2024, 10:01:39 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on April 27, 2024, 12:42:49 PM
A fire is a fire.True but different outcomes in a haystack vs hi-rise underground carpark or RoRo car carrier but I'll leave you with Bowen and Bandt to work it out.
If you're a revhead then a Tesla makes sense over hot Audi/BMW/Merc ICEs as they're all computers on wheels nowadays and cop the hefty depreciation and leave the out of warranty ownership to aspirationals. If you think you're buying an EV to change the weather then I have this bridge to sell you in Baltimore.
So for sensible folk that want to keep their licence we just want cheap functional transport so that rules out EVs as the Pros of car ownership costs discovered-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/hertz-to-sell-off-even-more-evs-as-depreciation-losses-mount/ar-AA1nIUCP (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/hertz-to-sell-off-even-more-evs-as-depreciation-losses-mount/ar-AA1nIUCP)
Why I've ordered a Corolla Cross hybrid for the missus to replace her 3 yr old Kia petrol shopping trolley and she might get it after Xmas. In any case with NVES starting Jan1 there's no way Toyota are selling it late this year when they'll want some plant food credits in the easy first year they can get for it.
Post by: prodigyrf on May 02, 2024, 01:06:12 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/news/tesla-axing-its-supercharger-team-puts-the-entire-industry-in-the-dark/ar-AA1nWeuT (https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/news/tesla-axing-its-supercharger-team-puts-the-entire-industry-in-the-dark/ar-AA1nWeuT)
So he gave away Tesla's NACS charging protocol for free and now most of the carmakers are adopting it as a Standard. Ultimately all EV owners have to share a ubiquitous system and rely on taxpayer handouts to fund it. Consequently public charging will always lag EV sales with city congestion and severe shortcomings in remote and regional areas. Meanwhile Toyota San chuckle as the long order book keeps rolling in and they hybridise their complete range while the EV lossmakers scramble to do likewise to stay afloat.
Post by: prodigyrf on May 07, 2024, 12:40:59 AM
https://electrek.co/2024/05/05/freewire-closes-its-hq-and-lays-off-just-about-everyone/
(https://electrek.co/2024/05/05/freewire-closes-its-hq-and-lays-off-just-about-everyone/)
So much for Made in Australia and all those Green jobs with picking winners on the taxpayer dime or membership slushfunds-
“We need to innovate, think outside the box and investigate all potential solutions to give us the best possible chance at building a network that is fit-for-purpose."
https://thedriven.io/2023/12/21/nrma-rolls-out-its-first-battery-backed-and-fastest-dc-chargers/ (https://thedriven.io/2023/12/21/nrma-rolls-out-its-first-battery-backed-and-fastest-dc-chargers/)
That was never going to fly charging up the charger battery low and slow and letting EVs suck it dry high and fast in order to get around the awful cost of getting the required power there in the first place. Never mind rational physics and economics it all runs on feelings and e-motion nowadays and nut-zero here we come.
Post by: prodigyrf on May 13, 2024, 02:25:29 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/polestar-2-latest-ev-to-have-price-slashed-in-australia/ar-BB1mhcUV (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/polestar-2-latest-ev-to-have-price-slashed-in-australia/ar-BB1mhcUV)
Early days for yours truly when an old millionaire horse trader gave me some profound advice that stuck-
Son you can sell anything if the price is right even if you have to pay somebody to take it away and that's called rubbish :cup:
Post by: Fizzie on May 28, 2024, 09:02:17 PM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-27/comparing-electric-cars-and-petrol-cars/103746132 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-05-27/comparing-electric-cars-and-petrol-cars/103746132)
Post by: Foo on May 29, 2024, 05:45:48 AM
Doesn't SA pull power from the "National" grid due to not having a reliable source of power supply? ???
Foo
Post by: Hairs on May 29, 2024, 12:04:32 PM
Yeah and the energy grid is under pressure now, so how the fork does that work if you triple that power drain in the current climate of power supply? ::)And we sell our top grade coal to others to burn, yet we are shutting our power coal stations.
Doesn't SA pull power from the "National" grid due to not having a reliable source of power supply? ???
Foo
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: xcvator on May 30, 2024, 08:36:07 AM
And we sell our top grade coal to others to burn, yet we are shutting our power coal stations.Same as Uranium, we can mine it, we can process it, we can export it where it is out of our control as to how it's used, BUT use it here for generating electricity , NO FLUKING WAY
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: ab56452001 on May 30, 2024, 12:22:29 PM
Post by: Hairs on May 30, 2024, 08:35:41 PM
Same as Uranium, we can mine it, we can process it, we can export it where it is out of our control as to how it's used, BUT use it here for generating electricity , NO FLUKING WAYHmm, we are Screwed.
All this Smart technology, think about this.
They can switch you off in an eye blink to your electricity, your internet, your banking, your fuel supply.
Our government wants us to become reliant on Green electricity, renewables, because "It's environmentally friendly"
It's control.
Let that sink in.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Bird on June 02, 2024, 02:54:47 PM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/effectively-worthless-ev-bubble-bursts/news-story/f9337c5dc80ab4520ee253f692f137c5 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/effectively-worthless-ev-bubble-bursts/news-story/f9337c5dc80ab4520ee253f692f137c5)
Post by: Hairs on June 04, 2024, 05:49:20 PM
In 50 years time, are owners of old EV's going to hold Show & Shine shows?
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: WilSurf on June 04, 2024, 05:54:28 PM
Just wondering,
In 50 years time, are owners of old EV's going to hold Show & Shine shows?
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Yep
Post by: rags on June 04, 2024, 07:08:54 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on June 04, 2024, 09:50:51 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/why-owners-are-scared-to-drive-their-electric-cars/ar-BB1mDpBW (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/why-owners-are-scared-to-drive-their-electric-cars/ar-BB1mDpBW)
No doubt due to massive depreciation of EVs as the bubble has burst-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEpzhC555O4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEpzhC555O4)
Word has got around to the subsidised flippers and leasers that private buyers don't want them used killing the residuals and ultimately impacting new sales and leasing-
https://7news.com.au/news/tesla-sales-numbers-slump-amid-uncertainty-over-evs-c-14905950 (https://7news.com.au/news/tesla-sales-numbers-slump-amid-uncertainty-over-evs-c-14905950)
Post by: prodigyrf on June 04, 2024, 11:43:33 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/ford-hybrids-are-outperforming-petrol-cars-in-one-key-area/ar-BB1nAfcf
(https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/ford-hybrids-are-outperforming-petrol-cars-in-one-key-area/ar-BB1nAfcf)
Oh they bet really big Jim so you go and tell the dreamers how it's gunna be if they don't want to see massive car plant closures and handing all those jobs to China. LOL
Post by: Bird on June 20, 2024, 10:10:39 AM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/we-were-team-byd-canberra-familys-chinese-ev-nightmare/news-story/68e4c5c1640b75df2fa46d26a3b160c0 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/we-were-team-byd-canberra-familys-chinese-ev-nightmare/news-story/68e4c5c1640b75df2fa46d26a3b160c0)
Post by: prodigyrf on June 20, 2024, 08:22:33 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/lithium-ion-batteries-are-causing-more-than-10-000-fires-a-year-in-australia-waste-chiefs-say-an-urgent-management-plan-is-needed/ar-BB1oyyUF (https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/lithium-ion-batteries-are-causing-more-than-10-000-fires-a-year-in-australia-waste-chiefs-say-an-urgent-management-plan-is-needed/ar-BB1oyyUF)
So the brains trust have no real management or recycling plan and yet they want to fill the joint with lots of really big lithium batteries?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpx-hY84aiY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpx-hY84aiY)
Insurance underwriters are going to put the mockers on this fantasy long before batteryfication of transport and fickle energy firming hits serious resourcing issues.
Post by: Hairs on June 20, 2024, 08:31:57 PM
It's getting harder and harder to ignore the bleeding obvious-Ya nailed.
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/lithium-ion-batteries-are-causing-more-than-10-000-fires-a-year-in-australia-waste-chiefs-say-an-urgent-management-plan-is-needed/ar-BB1oyyUF (https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/lithium-ion-batteries-are-causing-more-than-10-000-fires-a-year-in-australia-waste-chiefs-say-an-urgent-management-plan-is-needed/ar-BB1oyyUF)
So the brains trust have no real management or recycling plan and yet they want to fill the joint with lots of really big lithium batteries?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpx-hY84aiY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rpx-hY84aiY)
Insurance underwriters are going to put the mockers on this fantasy long before batteryfication of transport and fickle energy firming hits serious resourcing issues.
Same with home solar systems, insurance is killing it.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: prodigyrf on June 26, 2024, 12:55:13 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBBNzGN9NJ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBBNzGN9NJ4)
PS: Just let that sink in-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UhvEdqzPXE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UhvEdqzPXE)
Post by: Bird on June 27, 2024, 11:39:33 AM
https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/significant-mismatch-between-supply-and-demand-as-evs-pile-up-in-used-car-market/news-story/549f519529339c306e8877d6a221a52f (https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/motoring-news/significant-mismatch-between-supply-and-demand-as-evs-pile-up-in-used-car-market/news-story/549f519529339c306e8877d6a221a52f)
Post by: prodigyrf on July 01, 2024, 12:22:48 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/concerns-first-electric-vehicle-could-be-your-last/ar-BB1p1Zcc (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/concerns-first-electric-vehicle-could-be-your-last/ar-BB1p1Zcc)
Sustainability is all about subsidy mining and snouts in the taxpayer trough for crony capitalists.
Post by: prodigyrf on July 14, 2024, 06:35:36 PM
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/popular-cheap-cars-price-jumps-12000-2025-hyundai-i30-new-hybrid-range-might-be-worth-it (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/popular-cheap-cars-price-jumps-12000-2025-hyundai-i30-new-hybrid-range-might-be-worth-it)
As if money printing hadn't already impacted car prices but never fear the climate changers have the solution to affordability with expensive BEVs-
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-current-electric-cars-wont-save-us-we-should-embrace-smaller-cars-like-the-suzuki-swift (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/why-current-electric-cars-wont-save-us-we-should-embrace-smaller-cars-like-the-suzuki-swift)
They're always thinking of us in Canberra ;D
Post by: prodigyrf on August 07, 2024, 11:58:42 AM
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2024/08/the-tesla-ev-bubble-bursts/ (https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2024/08/the-tesla-ev-bubble-bursts/)
except there's still no news on when the missus Corolla Cross hybrid is scheduled for production although satisfying the patience of RAV4 buyers looks promising. Keep your eye out for a plethora of new petrol hybrid fourbies once the NVES really bites :cup:
Post by: WilSurf on August 08, 2024, 12:52:21 PM
Everyone "knows" about EVs supposedly going up in flames, but no-one mentions the couple of Toyota Corolla GR burning down to the ground.
Post by: jclures on August 08, 2024, 02:29:05 PM
Post by: Bird on August 08, 2024, 03:24:21 PM
‘Save lives’: $800k fines to be brought in for e-bikes and e-scooters in a regulation crackdown
New regulations are set to tackle the fastest growing cause of fires in one state as 54 related fires have been recorded this year, including two fatalities.
https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/save-lives-800k-fines-to-be-brought-in-for-ebikes-and-escooters-in-a-regulation-crackdown/news-story/b80f8e1661d9ec924ec02c3f895eb0dd (https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/news/save-lives-800k-fines-to-be-brought-in-for-ebikes-and-escooters-in-a-regulation-crackdown/news-story/b80f8e1661d9ec924ec02c3f895eb0dd)
Post by: jclures on August 08, 2024, 05:46:32 PM
At least it might by the right step in solving the problem.
Post by: rags on August 08, 2024, 07:50:37 PM
This last week I have opportunity to drive the new Subaru Solterra which is the Subaru entry to the EV world developed in partnership with the Toyota BZ4X. I must say it is a nice car and it has the Japanese functionality which is what is missing from all the others I have driven. The AC controls, the steering wheel controls, the electric handbrake, the mirror and window controls are all very Toyota which I liked given I drive a Landcruiser 300s and we have a Subaru as a daily drive. You could hop in and drive it without being distracted by new technology. The car is surprisingly spacious.
To date I have covered around 700km and today I tested the range of 450km to within 60 km so I had a little range anxiety towards the end of the trip. It is currently hooked up to a wall charger and on connecting the car it indicated the full recharge will take around 10 hours. I would be interested to see what the recharge would be if placed on a rapid charger.
I will go so far as saying except for the $70k price I could be tempted to own this EV as a daily drive in the knowledge that I would still have the cruiser to do the towing/touring duties. I will be exploring this car further.
Post by: Bird on August 08, 2024, 09:04:00 PM
https://melbourneelectricvehicleshow.com.au/][url]https://melbourneelectricvehicleshow.com.au/ (http://[url)[/url]
Post by: prodigyrf on August 11, 2024, 11:00:22 PM
The overarching problem I have is it's nonsense to believe these largely coal fired manufactures from China are in any way saving the planet and the fickle energy to run them is anything other than environmental delusion given the diluteness of wind and solar energy-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/not-climate-action-but-biodiversity-vandalism-environmentalist-calls-out-wind-farm-hypocrisy/ar-AA1oAKBZ (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/not-climate-action-but-biodiversity-vandalism-environmentalist-calls-out-wind-farm-hypocrisy/ar-AA1oAKBZ)
As such no Govt should be mandating or subsidising EVs in any way shape or form particularly as the slushfunding is largely middle class welfare.
Post by: prodigyrf on August 12, 2024, 10:50:51 PM
and these are relatively new cars and not tired old bangers been through 3 or 4 owners hitting the P-plater market. How many Grenfell Towers disasters will it take for the brains trust to get out of denial with their fallacy of composition problem?
Post by: Bird on August 21, 2024, 03:46:33 PM
(https://media.drive.com.au/obj/tx_q:50,rs:auto:1920:1080:1/driveau/upload/cms/uploads/1c5f6c7f-35a4-5ee8-a4e4-80bd7c450000)
:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
Post by: prodigyrf on August 21, 2024, 05:12:46 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/fully-charged-seoul-won-t-let-you-park-your-ev-underground/ar-AA1p9Kpm (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/fully-charged-seoul-won-t-let-you-park-your-ev-underground/ar-AA1p9Kpm)
Mind you John Cardogan has some solutions in mind if the tower blocks and carparks are not to suffer unaffordable insurance premiums-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB5xEiVa8PU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB5xEiVa8PU)
but the ICE car neighbours won't be sticking their hands up to pay for that
Post by: spectre on August 22, 2024, 12:12:57 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on August 22, 2024, 08:41:00 PM
https://www.ufinebattery.com/blog/lifepo4-thermal-runaway-causes-hazards-solutions/ (https://www.ufinebattery.com/blog/lifepo4-thermal-runaway-causes-hazards-solutions/)
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/auto/news/fake-info-busted-viral-video-shows-ev-battery-catching-fire-in-apartment-lift/articleshow/112038820.cms
(https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/auto/news/fake-info-busted-viral-video-shows-ev-battery-catching-fire-in-apartment-lift/articleshow/112038820.cms)
The issue is the bigger batteries and the more of them packed closely together the bigger the risk whatever triggers any of them including an ICE car fire.
Post by: prodigyrf on August 22, 2024, 10:55:11 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/lithium-is-dangerous/vi-AA1peTC9 (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/lithium-is-dangerous/vi-AA1peTC9)
As Eveready warn the user-
Health and Product Warnings
Risk of fire. Battery can explode or leak and cause injury if installed backwards, disassembled, charged, crushed, mixed with used or other battery types, or exposed to fire or high temperature. Dispose of used batteries promptly.
Now they're fairly small but a Tesla Model 3 had 4400 x 21700 cells (21mm diam by 70 mm tall) all stuck together in a structural battery pack that needs to be dealt with safely once it's run out of oomph and done its job-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQcvZn7-_VE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQcvZn7-_VE)
What you have to learn tossing the coin of engineering on one side with economics on the flip side is there are no absolute solutions only tradeoffs and most climate changers haven't got a clue about that.
Post by: prodigyrf on August 27, 2024, 10:16:45 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/other/huge-fire-at-rivian-plant-destroys-dozens-of-evs/ar-AA1psvuj (https://www.msn.com/en-ae/news/other/huge-fire-at-rivian-plant-destroys-dozens-of-evs/ar-AA1psvuj)
Imagine what they'll be like by the time the P-Platers get hold of them and carparks are full of them? Won't happen as the insurance underwriters will call time on this.
Post by: rags on August 28, 2024, 07:06:38 PM
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/canada-slaps-massive-tax-on-chinese-evs-147245/ (https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/canada-slaps-massive-tax-on-chinese-evs-147245/)
Post by: prodigyrf on September 03, 2024, 08:27:01 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/why-your-new-petrol-car-won-t-be-delivered-for-months/ar-AA1pTSqf (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/why-your-new-petrol-car-won-t-be-delivered-for-months/ar-AA1pTSqf)
Smart money will regularly bung deposits down on popular in demand ICE cars in order to flip them for a tidy profit to more urgent buyers who can't afford to wait in Gummint induced queues. If the sales of EVs fails to meet increasingly tougher targets you know it's a one way bet so expect the same with the NVES starting in Oz in the new year.
It's like this numpties. You can control the PRICE or the QUANTITY but NEVER BOTH at the same time stoopids! Leftys always mean well ::)
Post by: Bird on September 14, 2024, 11:29:17 AM
Post by: prodigyrf on October 18, 2024, 08:32:20 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/the-u-s-plans-to-combat-ev-fires-with-groundbreaking-technology/ar-AA1ssofP (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/the-u-s-plans-to-combat-ev-fires-with-groundbreaking-technology/ar-AA1ssofP)
What about all those millions of aging incendiaries out there already we might ask? ::)
Post by: prodigyrf on October 19, 2024, 11:18:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YkfWyj2TiA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YkfWyj2TiA)
In further scintillating eco-news it now appears the Great Transition to this marvellous state of net-zero fire stations that the erstwhile electricity actually backing up fickles charging battery cars should have been rolling with coal instead of stepping on the gas-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/gas-industry-in-damage-control-as-landmark-study-finds-lng-worse-than-coal-for-the-climate/ar-AA1swpro (https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/gas-industry-in-damage-control-as-landmark-study-finds-lng-worse-than-coal-for-the-climate/ar-AA1swpro)
I don't make this stuff up (I couldn't if I tried) These people are experts with letters after their names ;D
Post by: prodigyrf on November 04, 2024, 07:37:38 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ9v81N8xPA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ9v81N8xPA)
Just build another plant and ring up the insurance broker for new cover eh?
Post by: prodigyrf on November 27, 2024, 12:31:28 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/the-battery-crisis-taking-europe-s-ev-sector-by-storm/ar-AA1uIY5I (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/the-battery-crisis-taking-europe-s-ev-sector-by-storm/ar-AA1uIY5I)
That's what their carmakers are telling the climate changing brains trust now-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/labour-bows-to-pressure-to-rethink-rules-on-electric-vehicle-sales/ar-AA1uM4lN (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/labour-bows-to-pressure-to-rethink-rules-on-electric-vehicle-sales/ar-AA1uM4lN)
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/germany-joins-backlash-against-evs-as-scholz-criticises-emission-fines/ar-AA1uMpr1 (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/germany-joins-backlash-against-evs-as-scholz-criticises-emission-fines/ar-AA1uMpr1)
Oz got out of subsidised carmaking at a very fortuitous time and the Chinese can slash prices and engage in dumping here all they like which they are doing because we're a perfect Western test market for them :cup:
Edit: So it begins and they weren't bluffing-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/labour-s-net-zero-plans-left-in-disarray-after-factory-closure/ar-AA1uOmZl (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/labour-s-net-zero-plans-left-in-disarray-after-factory-closure/ar-AA1uOmZl)
Post by: prodigyrf on December 17, 2024, 10:59:54 PM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/growing-ev-sales-is-a-struggle-kia/ar-AA1vZGgZ (https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/growing-ev-sales-is-a-struggle-kia/ar-AA1vZGgZ)
What it means is prices of petrol and diesel vehicles will rise due to $100/gram of CO2 combined fines above overall fleet allowances if carmakers can't sell enough EVs to offset them. Clearly KIA know that will be a struggle and they won't be alone among the carmakers apart from the flood of new Chinese EV marques. Ve haf vays of making you switch deplorables! >:D
PS: Now China burns 56% of the world's coal including a fair chunk from Oz but they do like an opportunity when they spot a bunch of virtue signalling dumbasses- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU_S97Ae1eg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU_S97Ae1eg)
while they dump their coal fired EVs into Europe driving German auto makers out of business.
Post by: WilSurf on December 18, 2024, 10:21:26 AM
Post by: prodigyrf on December 26, 2024, 10:44:08 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Nz-4eEBTw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Nz-4eEBTw)
The world of men isn't going to run on the emotion of Gretahead schoolgirls or the carpetbaggers and grifters riding the gravy train.
Post by: Pottsy on February 26, 2025, 05:28:38 PM
Post by: WilSurf on February 27, 2025, 10:15:28 AM
Post by: Pottsy on February 27, 2025, 11:46:00 AM
After having an EV for a year, never had that issue.Getting home or Shitting yourself? ;D ;D
Post by: xcvator on February 27, 2025, 11:55:27 AM
After having an EV for a year, never had that issue.
But you do realize have to take it out and drive it >:D :cheers:
Post by: WilSurf on February 27, 2025, 11:57:18 AM
But you do realize have to take it out and drive it >:D :cheers:
It has done over 13,000km
Post by: Brij on February 28, 2025, 04:00:18 PM
It has done over 13,000km
Only done 13,000km in a year?
Sounds like perfect use for an EV.
(And, no, I'm not trying to be cynical or sarcastic).
Post by: WilSurf on March 04, 2025, 11:22:06 AM
It's my wife's car, she drives to and from the shops, to and from her work 6 times a week.
It is being charged by our solar panels when we have a surplus.
Post by: Hairs on March 08, 2025, 02:48:39 PM
Some 270 000 homes without power.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: austastar on March 08, 2025, 03:32:33 PM
Probably the same as ICE vehicles unable to get fuel from the electrical bowser, unless they have a workaround.
Cheers
Typed with phat fumbs
Post by: Hairs on March 08, 2025, 03:35:13 PM
Hi,You are correct.
Probably the same as ICE vehicles unable to get fuel from the electrical bowser, unless they have a workaround.
Cheers
Typed with phat fumbs
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: Hoyks on March 08, 2025, 06:20:07 PM
Wonder how those with EV's are copeing without electricity around SE QLD atm?
Some 270 000 homes without power.
Coping quite well by all accounts.
No where to go, nothing is open, so don't need to drive anywhere.
The cars have vehicle to load capability and more battery capacity than you need, so many are using the car as a silent substitute for a generator and running essential appliances from the car.
Post by: Hairs on March 08, 2025, 06:33:05 PM
Coping quite well by all accounts.
No where to go, nothing is open, so don't need to drive anywhere.
The cars have vehicle to load capability and more battery capacity than you need, so many are using the car as a silent substitute for a generator and running essential appliances from the car.
That's all we can ask, That you guys are doing well.
Actually, when I had posted, a I know, whi has just bought an EV 4x4, he was using his EV 4x4 to power his house fridge, and essential electrical things.
Well there ya go.
You don't use magic to disappear, ya use a 4x4 & Swag.
Post by: prodigyrf on March 14, 2025, 09:58:57 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/toyota-just-proved-that-electric-vehicles-aren-t-going-anywhere/ar-AA1ARwvZ
(https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/toyota-just-proved-that-electric-vehicles-aren-t-going-anywhere/ar-AA1ARwvZ)
Besides there's always the promise of the 1000km range 10 minute refuel solid state yada yada battery just around the corner and when a carmaker like Toyota put one out I might be interested.