MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mitch67 on June 06, 2016, 08:11:31 PM
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I was reading in the RACQ Road ahead mag February /March edition about taking out seating of 4WD. Permanently or for a indefinite period I know with a vechile going to sell it have to put seats back in it so can get through with a safety certificate inspection
Saying if putting in drawer sets bolted into the cargo area or other alterations with long term appearance Saying need a modification plate so won't attract fines If don't do it explain to the enforcement authorities how going get seats back in
Got me thinking how 4WDs out there don't have Modifcation plates in them
And has any one been actually fine for it yet or is just scare campaign
For me am looking up grade to newer 4WD next year putting drawers in cargo area & some modification's to it
So who's does the modification plates mechanics or is the 4WD places like ARB ,TJM and so on and wandering if don't do the modification plate suppose makes insurance nil in void too
Mitch
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Guess it would be on a State by State basis, but my understanding is that if you only remove the seats temporarily, and don't touch the seatbelts, you do not need a mod plate.
KB
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That's my understanding too, KB.
:cheers:
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Gees Geoff that is twice in two days we have agreed with each other. We gotta stop doing that :D
KB
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doesn't this come up every slow news week?
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I wouldn't worry about it. Just some wacker trying to write an article to justify his spot. Everyday now you witness a dozen idiots on the road doing something they shouldn't, dangerous or stupid and yet cops are only interested in speeding and drink driving. Unless you wear a base ball cap backwards and your car makes turbo noises whilst playing doof doof music you are unlikely to ever have it closely looked at?
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Must be slipping. I'll have to lift my game KB...... ;D ;D
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In QLD it is plated as an LK1 mod.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-modifications/Light-vehicle-modifications/NCOP/8sectionlkseatingoccupantprotection.pdf?la=en (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-modifications/Light-vehicle-modifications/NCOP/8sectionlkseatingoccupantprotection.pdf?la=en)
0418745830 - Dave metcalfe is an approved engineer. There wouldn't be a person in the state who knows more about modding 4 wds.
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Victoria no certificate is required but Vic Roads need to be advised
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/vehicle-modifications-and-defects/vehicle-modifications/removing-adding-and-replacing-seats (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/vehicle-modifications-and-defects/vehicle-modifications/removing-adding-and-replacing-seats)
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I wouldn't worry about it. Just some wacker trying to write an article to justify his spot.
As with most of these things.
Like so many other things, it may breach some moronic line in a rule book somewhere but the reality is that you need to be very unlucky to strike an equally moronic power crazed knob before it's an issue.
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As with most of these things.
Like so many other things, it may breach some moronic line in a rule book somewhere but the reality is that you need to be very unlucky to strike an equally moronic power crazed knob before it's an issue.
Last time I saw one he was standing in the sand at inskip point wearing a mermaid uniform and he was having a field day wrecking people's holidays.
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I wouldn't worry about it. Just some wacker trying to write an article to justify his spot. Everyday now you witness a dozen idiots on the road doing something they shouldn't, dangerous or stupid and yet cops are only interested in speeding and drink driving. Unless you wear a base ball cap backwards and your car makes turbo noises whilst playing doof doof music you are unlikely to ever have it closely looked at?
my thinking also....how many times have the police pulled you up to look in your vehicle lately? Unless you are doing something stupid to attract their attention, you likely won't have a problem. If on the tiny chance you did get pinged, the fine probably wouldn't cost much more then getting it engineered for removing then reinstalling the seats again.
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In my 2008 Prado the drawers come out in about 5 minutes and are held down by turnbuckles to the OEM tie downs, so I can always argue temporary removal, and the 120 Prado is designed to have easy to remove seats. The 150 they are permanently fixed. The national standards only refer to permanent removal: NCOP Section LK Part 4
"REMOVAL OF SEAT(S) AND SEATBELT(S) TO REDUCE SEATING CAPACITY
Seats and seatbelts may be permanently removed to reduce seating capacity of the vehicle. The vehicle must be certified to represent the new seating capacity. All holes in the bodywork must be blanked off."
https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP7_Section_LK_Seating_and_Occupant_Protection_1Jan2011_v2.pdf (https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP7_Section_LK_Seating_and_Occupant_Protection_1Jan2011_v2.pdf)
Just checking the RMS (NSW) and VicRoad (VIC) websites and it seems you don't need to worry. Not sure about WA.
NSW - only if it changes the Classification of the Vehicle. eg Prados and 100 series came with 5 and 7 or 8 Seat configurations.
"http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/documents/roads/safety-rules/standards/vsi-06-light-vehicle-modifications.pdf"
VIC -
Original number of seating positions: 1-9. Number of seating positions reduced to: 2 to 9 Approval Certificate Not Required.
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/vehicle-modifications-and-defects/vehicle-modifications/removing-adding-and-replacing-seats (https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/vehicle-modifications-and-defects/vehicle-modifications/removing-adding-and-replacing-seats)
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Here's Qld's regs. Doesn't mention anything about leaving seat belts in to be a temp mod.
My interpretation ;D is that seeing you do not plan to own the vehicle forever, prior to sale of the vehicle, the seats must be refitted prior to obtaining a safety cert, therefore the removal is only temporary.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions/L51.pdf?la=en (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/-/media/Safety/Vehicle-standards-and-modifications/Vehicle-standards/Vehicle-standards-instructions/L51.pdf?la=en)
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Thanks Shane, another urban myth busted :cup:
KB
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Reading the code of practice from the Qld site the only issues of concern in Qld For seat removal is
- Does it impact on the the airbags etc?
- Has it left holes in the floor for exhaust gases etc to enter the cabin.
- Qld transport may want to know the new capacity.
I can't see it being to costly to have it certified if that is all it is.
The standards would kick in moreso if it changes category of vehicle. I.e. Commercial to passenger , which means stricter safety issues.
I would imagine the most likely course of action by a police officer is to add it to the end of the defect notice for the other faults they found
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...
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I think the issue would be if say you had a seven seater, took the rear two seats out to say put drawers in,
then decided to sit two kids in the boot on top of the drawers.
My understanding (and how I've always done it)
is with removing the 3rd row or even 2nd row is that as long as the holes have bolts in them (if through to the outside of the car) and nothing is altered structurally then there is no issue.
I have never even bothered with notifying vic roads that I have taken the seats out as it is always going to be temporary. whether its 6 days or 6 years, the factory seats are going to go back in at some point. (when I sell it etc)
In saying that I have never tried to use non existing seats after I have removed them either. I never saw the point in getting it complied as every thing is just bolt in or out, If I had the capacity officially changed and needed to put the seats in for a weekend (say the MIL visits) then if I didn't get the seating officially changed back to seven seats then I am technically illegal and can be fined.
Cheers
Nick
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I can't see it being to costly to have it certified if that is all it is.
It costs me about $250 for a single mod here in Qld's to be signed off and plated.
Once a vehicle has been mod plated in Qld the plate is there for life. It's an offence to remove it. So if you were to refit those seats, not have the vehicle inspected and re-mod plated, then it is now an illegally modified vehicle and is a Type 2 Hooning Offence under Qld's Hooning Laws. >:(
Edit: Pretty much the same as what Evo just typed.
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So does this get added to the long list of things that has never actually happened to anyone? Only heard about it happening to friends of friends ?
Fined for being over GVM
Insurance refused for etc etc (other than fraud)
Fined for wrong shackles in towbars :laugh:
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So does this get added to the long list of things that has never actually happened to anyone? Only heard about it happening to friends of friends ?
Fined for being over GVM
Insurance refused for etc etc (other than fraud)
Fined for wrong shackles in towbars :laugh:
:cup:
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Many moons ago when the wagon was whole, I was stopped by the constabulary for the fishing rod holders on the bullbar. He noticed the insulation on the back windows and the question was asked about the third row seats. I responded with "no seats only the drawers and fridge". His advice was to remove the seatbelts to render the 3rd row "unuseable".
This was WA and about 7yrs ago.
Laws may have changed, but since I've chopped her into a 4door ute, it's mod plated as a 5 seater.
A few years ago I removed the rear seats and have 2 fridges on a false floor with a cargo barrier behind the 2 front seats. I have removed the seatbelts from the second row as a precaution. No questions yet..............
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Here's a good summary from a few years ago when this popped up. In the case of a Prado, the 120 is fine as they're designed to be removable, the 150 that has the seats in the floor could be classed as a modification.
Transport South Australia’s view is that removing rear seats, where no tools or only simple tools are needed; where no structural modifications are involved; no change in vehicle category and no commercial gain is sought; does not need approval and so is not committing an offence. Providing no anchorages for seat, seat belt or child restraint are removed or modified, no modification has been made to the seating capacity. However, if the seat cannot be returned to its original position because of the removal of an anchorage point, then a permanent change in seating capacity has occurred. To formalise this change in seating capacity, an inspection will be required and following inspection a certificate of exemption issued for the permanent removal of the seat. Where the seats are removed to change a vehicle registration category; to skirt established arrangements such as ADR certification; or to make a substantial structural change relevant authority approval is needed. If any change in classification is sought, an inspection is required and a label attached accordingly.
Vic Roads’ view is that there is no reason seats that are designed to be removable cannot be removed. Doing this does not alter the seating capacity of the vehicle. Seating capacity is defined by the Australian Design Rules as the maximum number of seating positions for which the vehicle is designed; not the number of seats actually fitted at any point in time.
The NSW RTA’s position is similar to Victoria’s in that rear seats may be temporarily removed without affecting the vehicle’s compliance.
Queensland Transport says that for vehicles fitted with quick-release seating attachments as original equipment, temporary removal of the seats is acceptable. In the case of vehicles fitted with bolt-in seats no engineering approval is necessary for temporary removal, provided the category of the vehicle does not change as a result of the seating reduction. At the time of a Safety Certificate inspection, the vehicle must be returned to the manufacturer's original condition or have a Modification Plate fitted for the seating configuration as presented. Queensland Transport will mutually recognise interstate drivers travelling in Queensland who comply with their own jurisdiction's requirements, but drivers are advised to carry some proof of this compliance.
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Thanks for all the replies much as thought more of scarce campaign
Am in Queensland
But there is some food for thought as well take on board like to try do right thing with in reason
Now read a 76 document on national vechile standards
Mitch
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Here in Qld my previous Cruiser was originally a 6 seater which I changed to a 5 seater (involved removing front passenger bench seat and also removed drivers seat, then added new SAAS bucket seats to both front sides on new seat mounts I fabricated). Cost me $150 I think from memory to get it engineered, then had to fill in paperwork at Qld transport which involved no extra cost.