MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: IanC on May 24, 2016, 09:27:10 PM
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We are tossing around ideas for the next tug and would like feedback on the Landcruiser 200 series, diesel.
We are looking at new purchase, long term ownership (10 years) and tow 2500kg but definitely no more than 3000.
So far from friends who have/had we have received....
1. Damn it's thirsty.
2. Everytime you have to fix something you almost have to take the whole engine out.
3. It sips fuel at 15l per 100 towing my basestation.
4. Be prepared to get rid of it before it's out of warranty.
5. If you think it was expensive to buy wait until you have to fix it.
6. Just love my 200.
So yep kinda confused about now. ???
Not wanting a debate. Just real life experience with the 200.
Feel free to pm if you wish.
Thanks IanC
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So yep kinda confused about now. ???
I don't think it will get much better here.. LMAO
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I have had one for the last 2 1/2 years without issue. They are a great car to drive on or off road with plenty of room inside for the family and luggage. When towing you forget there is anything on the ball as they have that much power. Yes they are a little high on the fuel usage but it's a big car with a big engine. Drive it easy and it will chew less fuel like any other car.
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Have one as the work car. Never looked at the fuel consumption but it is real nice to drive and oodles of power. It's the diesel v8 twin turbo.
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I am on my second one (first was a 2011 4.7 petrol GXL).
Great cars.
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We have a 2009 model GXL turbo diesel.
Just clicked over 170,000 k.
It has been an absolutely fantastic vehicle.
The only mechanical issues have been the water pump replaced and a high pressure hydraulic power steering hose.
Without a doubt the most comfortable vehicle we have ever owned.
Highly recommended 👍
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We are tossing around ideas for the next tug and would like feedback on the Landcruiser 200 series, diesel.
We are looking at new purchase, long term ownership (10 years) and tow 2500kg but definitely no more than 3000.
So far from friends who have/had we have received....
1. Damn it's thirsty.
2. Everytime you have to fix something you almost have to take the whole engine out.
3. It sips fuel at 15l per 100 towing my basestation.
4. Be prepared to get rid of it before it's out of warranty.
5. If you think it was expensive to buy wait until you have to fix it.
6. Just love my 200.
So yep kinda confused about now. ???
Not wanting a debate. Just real life experience with the 200.
Feel free to pm if you wish.
Thanks IanC
What other vehicles do you have in mind?
Make sure you let us know which one you decide to buy.
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I bought a 2008 two years ago and, apart from new front discs it hasn't missed a beat at 180,000km. It's thirsty enough but that because mine is heavily modified. On your questions:
1. Damn it's thirsty. On only if you thrash it.
2. Everytime you have to fix something you almost have to take the whole engine out. The steering rack can be removed without removing the engine. My engine has stayed put.
3. It sips fuel at 15l per 100 towing my basestation. Ditto with my 1,500kg camper in a tail wind.
4. Be prepared to get rid of it before it's out of warranty. How come so many older ones are still fetching big dollars?
5. If you think it was expensive to buy wait until you have to fix it. Just steer clear of Toyota dealers.
6. Just love my 200. I resemble that remark.
Have towed my camper over the Simpson and around the high country and its never missed a beat. I do oil and filters every 5,000km.
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3 years into our ownership. Great car. Fuel usage not as good as we thought.
No issues (touch wood).
It's about to run out of warranty, contemplating the extended option. Our service manager advised that well maintained there are not usually too many issues.
You won't regret it!
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I bought my first 4x4 in 1980, been driving them ever since, had lots and all of them used for towing and off road. All of my land cruisers have been reliable vehicles. A couple of years ago I sold my 76 series and bought a 200. It is seriously the best yet INMHO. Unless you are going to spends serious money and buy a large American truck, the 200 series is the pick. I use mine as a daily commuter as well, love it.
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15l per 100 km. it astounds me how everyone else can get this sort of fuel acconomy towing. If I get under 20 I am happy. Maybe it is me but you don't buy a 3ton truck with a V8 to get good fuel figures.
Anyway mine is 2010 GXL and I have not had a problem with it. I love the car and wouldn't swap it for anything else. I bought mine as a long turn vehicle as well but probably 20 years instead of 10.
Mine now is only a weekend and holiday vehicle as I have a POS hilux as a work car so I don't rack up a lot of kms on the cruiser anymore.
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We picked up ours 2 weeks before we got the reconn (had an expensive fortnight). Cant comment on the repairs etc. But simply what an awesome motor vehicle. Tows the reconn as if it wasn't there.
As for the fuel usage - who cares, it is was what it is. For me it uses less than the 120 Diesel Prado that it replaced, but I see that as irrelevant. I like the vehicle, it drives well, tows well.
Go buy one!
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Almost 2 years for me and 65K on the clock. Best car I have owned.
A couple of points;
Fixed price servicing is about to run out so my maintenance costs are about to go up but I can claim it on tax.
Fuel usage is good, you drive a V8 diesel and drive it hard fully loaded up, it does it better than the old patrol though.
Don't really notice the trailer on the back and not watching the temp gauge all the time
Extremely comfortable tourer which the family is very happy with
So far no problems with anything on the vehicle, regular maintenance on it and a couple of extras to ensure fuel system and the like have a bit extra protection.
GG
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If you have to ask then you are not ready to buy one! But be warned, do not take one for a test drive.....
Had ours from new in 2009 and now have 232,000 K's on it. Tows our camper like a dream and currently towing our 3.5 t caravan and it is brilliant. But seriously, I think you are not ready to wear that big 200 series grin ;D. Kevin
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I have to start by saying if I could afford one I would buy a 200 series in a heartbeat, and I’m not saying this to be negative.
But on the weekend we went away with a couple of families and one of the guys works for Toyota. He was saying with the new upgraded model they are having major problems with the Diesel Particulate Filter as it’s putting the car into limp mode. Apparently it’s got to have something with our fuel quality.
As he said they will find a fix for the problem and it’s all being fixed under warranty, but maybe do some research before handing over your money.
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Mine has done nearly 10,000k and I don't even think about the DPF, it is a non-issue for me. I have never seen the LED indicator in the dash above 1 bar (out of maybe 8 bars?)
I know it is being burnt because you can smell it when you get out of the car.
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Are you looking at a diesel or petrol model.
Mark
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From what I have read the latest anti pollution crap now on diesels can be, repeat 'can be', a problem with all makes and apparently things are only going to get worse in the coming years. But from what I watched on a review of the 2016 model it looked a fantastic 4WD. Kevin
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I have driven one (in 4wd mode only) and stepping out of my Patrol into the 200 I wasn't too impressed. Can't see what all the fuss is about really. Throttle lag was huge, let's just hang on here for 10 seconds...... Hill decent mode was doing my ears in, so noisy.
Out on the open road it may be different.
Think I will stick with my troll with no where near as much of this electrical wizardry dependancy.
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I have driven one (in 4wd mode only) and stepping out of my Patrol into the 200 I wasn't too impressed. Can't see what all the fuss is about really. Throttle lag was huge, let's just hang on here for 10 seconds...... Hill decent mode was doing my ears in, so noisy.
Out on the open road it may be different.
Think I will stick with my troll with no where near as much of this electrical wizardry dependancy.
Thats like saying you only wear woman's underwear cause all yours are in the wash......Just admit it you felt the power and got scared
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I have driven one (in 4wd mode only) and stepping out of my Patrol into the 200 I wasn't too impressed. Can't see what all the fuss is about really. Throttle lag was huge, let's just hang on here for 10 seconds...... Hill decent mode was doing my ears in, so noisy.
Out on the open road it may be different.
Think I will stick with my troll with no where near as much of this electrical wizardry dependancy.
.....Emperor's New Clothes.......
You'll be burned at the stake for comments like that Noel..... ;D ;D
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Someone with one who isn't totally impressed by it is very quiet...
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.....Emperor's New Clothes.......
You'll be burned at the stake for comments like that Noel..... ;D ;D
:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:
Lets also say the owner of said 200 (not a member on this forum) is not real impressed with it either. Won't admit to owning it at his 4wd club, that's the missus's car....
Would take back his Paj in a heartbeat. (if it would tow his big-ass block of flats)
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I've been a diehard Pajero fan for many years. Have recently decided to buy a long term tow vehicle and just could not go past the cruiser. It outperforms the Paj in just about every department. Its quicker with less effort, quieter, roomier, more powerful, smoother to ride in, is effortless off road, almost unstoppable with it's traction control and ascent/descent control, far more range, tows my camper like it's not there..
Only place the Paj wins is handling, the 200 feels a bit barge like in comparison. (Nothing a suspension upgrade won't fix, dear :-* )
Yes I still have rose coloured glasses on as I've only had it about a month but every time I touch that start button and that V8 burbles into life, you just can't wipe the smile of my face.. ;D
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I don't have one, but I like them. Just be aware that it's legal load carrying ability is not huge, about 620 kg from memory. Doesn't allow for much luggage after fitting roof rack and bullbar, dropping 250 kg of ball weight on the back, and hopping in with your navigator.
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It's a hard one. We currently have the y61 patrol and I'm not a brand loyalist so I've been looking at the 200 and the y62 patrol, although I've always been a diesel fan it appears that petrol technology has come a hell of a long way, so much so that people are reporting similar if not slightly better than the 200 diesel. Not to mention petrol engines are a hell of a lot cheaper to repair so I'm currently trapped between the 2
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I would buy one tomorrow.
I like the pov pack 5 seater model.
That would do just nicely I reckon.
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Thanks everyone for your input. My takeaway from this is that those pre DPF are good. The DPF in the newer model is still an unknown quantity so waiting 6 - 12 mths for any issues to arise and be see how well the dealer / Toyota handles it may be beneficial. No hurry at this end.
In regards to the capacity we were going to chop it into a dual cab and have it GVM upgraded. Has a few benefits over purchasing the wagon both financially and suits our requirements. Get the best of both worlds. Power and comfort with the practicality of a ute. In Qld GVM upgrades are pre-registration so purchasing a near new/demo that is registered doesn't allow us this option.
We had considered the Y62 and petrol Cruisers as well, but for long term (keeping in mind the conversion as well) feel the diesel is the better way to go.
Thanks again for the feedback.
Ian
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got one
love it
will replace it with another
only downside is that its the wife's
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My mate's bought one recently, speaking to him on the weekend I asked about fuel consumption. He gets around 12l/100km on the highway. That's better than my Triton... All that power & still better economy than my four cylinder piece of 💩. I want one!
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In Qld GVM upgrades are pre-registration so purchasing a near new/demo that is registered doesn't allow us this option.
Um, you could be right but suggest you check with the Qld Transport Department. Put your request in writing to their head office, don't just ask the local counter service person.
My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that if the GVM upgrade is done prior to the first registration, the upgraded vehicle is able to be registered or re-registered in all States. If it is done after the first registration, it can still be upgraded and compliance plated, but the upgrade is only able to be re-registered in Queensland. Now this will not be an issue unless you move interstate or sell the vehicle to an interstate buyer. Anyways, check it out as it may open up your purchasing options.
KB
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Not always true.
My lovells GVM upgrade was done POST rego as we installed after delivery from Toyota.
That was done in Queensland.
Since moving to tassie we recently had the car rego changed to tassie. So it's now registered in tassie.
Other then a standard check and verification that all vehicle components had relevant adr standards they checked the plates all good. No additional changes and the rego check was about 100 bucks.
Was just a standard transfer inspection.
New paperwork clearly shows upgraded GVM and all the hits and pieces.
Stupidly they complained about the tint, apparently in tassie it's too dark. But because it was installed by Toyota and not aftermarket they accepted it
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31/2 year on ours, had a hick up this morning starting cold. Got it being looked at Friday. Stunning four wheel drive can't imagine driving anything else TBH. Had a Paj great vehicle but anybody who prefers a Paj over a 200 must be very limited in where they drive? Ie Westfield car parks.
Ex mrbitchi get the suspension done. Road holding kills a Paj.
When it comes to repairs is petrol cheaper? I am not against the whole petrol cheaper to run than diesel argument but if you have a major prob today even a dunnydore petrol motor cost heaps.
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Ex mrbitchi get the suspension done. Road holding kills a Paj.
Its on the list, but the list is llloooonnnggg :)
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Hi mare, I was in the same boat about six months ago, with a plan to keep the vehicle for 200,000 km or 4-5 years. I was set on the 200 and thought I had done my research. Had strong views on the petrol diesel debate, and have spent many nights around a campfire espousing the torque and fuel efficiency advantages of oil burners.
Ended up driving the Y62 really just to rule it out. Came home in shock, because IMO the vehicle fit out and finish was miles ahead, and the 7 speed auto and 5.6l v8 was brilliant. The factory diff lock was a bonus, Slept on it, recalibrated my thinking, Bought one and haven't looked back. Oh and the 30k saving was nice too.
I get your thoughts on Diesel engines, I suggest if you are about to drop $100,000 on a car, just drive the Nissan to rule it out you might be surprised. I was, and many others were too.
I know the thinking is a bit different to many others on here, and I love the cruisers too.
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If you really must.............
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160525/bbe79843fa054c436974e0f9567c9bac.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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In regards to the capacity we were going to chop it into a dual cab and have it GVM upgraded. Has a few benefits over purchasing the wagon both financially and suits our requirements. Get the best of both worlds. Power and comfort with the practicality of a ute.
Ian
What about a visit to Performax and take a Tundra for a spin?
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If you really must.............
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160525/bbe79843fa054c436974e0f9567c9bac.jpg)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Adrian. I reckon you should be on the design team at Nissan. I like it :cup:
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We picked up ours 2 weeks before we got the reconn (had an expensive fortnight). Cant comment on the repairs etc. But simply what an awesome motor vehicle. Tows the reconn as if it wasn't there.
As for the fuel usage - who cares, it is was what it is. For me it uses less than the 120 Diesel Prado that it replaced, but I see that as irrelevant. I like the vehicle, it drives well, tows well.
Go buy one!
Geez you must have got the winning ticket! Hows the Reconn going?
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What about a visit to Performax and take a Tundra for a spin?
Actually the wife would really like a Dodge Ram (rolls eyes)
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Geez you must have got the winning ticket! Hows the Reconn going?
No not at all unfortunately - it was just the way the delivery of the Cruiser worked out. What was supposed to be a 4 month wait turned into a 3 week wait because someone else changed their mind, so the local Toyota dealer suddenly had a spare land cruiser in their yard.
Love the recon - just simply a great way to go camping!
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If you want a dual cab have you considered a Iveco Daily. https://www.iveco.com.au/product/daily-4-x-4 (https://www.iveco.com.au/product/daily-4-x-4)
It's a truck not a car but it should do everything you want (except maybe as a daily drive (pun?)) :laugh:
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My sister in law has a 200 - diesel. Talking to them they love everything about it apart from the fuel usage. Cannot get under 15L/100 in it, most often its around 19L/100 and makes very little difference if towing or not. But they do have larger mud tyres, bull bar and roof racks so that dosent help the matter much. I would think the petrols would do similar figures to that!
In regards to the DPF equiped models(actually any DPF fitted vehicle period) I would only consider one if you dont intend to do many short trips - they really need longer runs that allow the DPF to heat up properly. Short trips clog them quickly
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Actually the wife would really like a Dodge Ram (rolls eyes)
Mate of mine has one and tows some tandem Bushtracker stupid kg heavy.. it doesn't feel it and they just did 16,000klms to the west coast and around... has custom fuel tank made inside the tub, so has 260ltrs+ of fuel...
Dairy farmers are doing it tough.. his 200 is now the farm truck.
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If you want a dual cab have you considered a Iveco Daily. https://www.iveco.com.au/product/daily-4-x-4 (https://www.iveco.com.au/product/daily-4-x-4)
It's a truck not a car but it should do everything you want (except maybe as a daily drive (pun?)) :laugh:
well I have one of these ivecos and a 200 cruiser
I used to love driving the cruiser and kick the wife out of the drivers seat anytime I have to go anywhere
but that has now changed since I have the iveco
I got a duel cab so she now has to come in my car if we have to go any where
it drives like a 4x4 not a truck
it doesn't have the acceleration of the 200 but im guessin I wont get the tickets like I do in the 200
and it rides very good and I mean very good not just good for a truck
and yes I will be using it for my daily commute of 6 kms
now to sell the patrol. anyone want a 2010 patrol ute with Telstra body?
fergy
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In regards to the capacity we were going to chop it into a dual cab and have it GVM upgraded.
Just a heads up if you aren't aware of it.....If you order the vehicle via places such as Creative Conversions and get the chop done pre registration, the vehicle is then classified as a commercial vehicle and thus exempt from the luxury car sales tax.....in essence it save you something like $10 - $15K doing it that way.
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Not that I am looking in the very near future but in the near future. So far thinking about the Patrol, 76 twin or the 200. Not to thread hijack but looking at the comments so far, I am guessing the fuel economy on the 200 has views from both petrol and diesel. Would be interested to know when fuel economy of the 200 is discussed whether it is the pettie or the diesel.
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Towing the 2.6T Taj Mahal I'm averaging 15.1/100. Around 13's not towing in the city
Starsky
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Towing the 2.6T Taj Mahal I'm averaging 15.1/100. Around 13's not towing in the city
Starsky
Yeah but that is the diesel, what about the pettie?
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Yeah but that is the diesel, what about the pettie?
A mate has a petty Sahara towing 3T he is 22-23/100, around town about 12/100
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Just on fuel consumption with the 200. I have never bothered, I don't do enough kms to worry about it. But my car has always had ATs and a lift and bullbar from new. When #2 son was learning on a return trip to Canberra we got 9.9 lph so a lot if it is the way we enjoy the V8 ;D
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Someone with one who isn't totally impressed by it is very quiet...
Who, me???
My rambling thoughts....
Picked up a cheap 2007 Petrol Landbarge late last year. At under $32k, it was a very good price at the time. Downgraded from a 1998 GU1 Patrol petrol.
I unfortunately didn't have a spare $100k to get a new 200 series or Y62 Patrol & randomly throw the ARB catalogue at it...
Call me old & fussy, but these are my good and bad points.
The bad;
1. Front Seats are less supportive than my GU1 Patrol. Really not particularly impressed.
2. Cruise control on a stalk instead of buttons on the steering wheel like my 98 Patrol
3. Less leg room in the drivers seat, seat too high with no adjustment (I'm about 6'2" and my Learner driver son is 6'4") I believe if you get a newer higher spec model you get electric seats.
4. Everything pings, beeps and bongs. I disconnected the chime in the front guard that went for about 30 seconds EVERY time you opened the tailgate. Hopefully it doesn't do anything elses important ;D It was driving me nuts
5. KDSS only seems to kick in when you throw it around a bit - moderate cornering still has trawler-like qualities shining through. Admittedly the shocks are Old man Emu & coils of unknown origin - maybe still factory. I'm hoping a full tough dog setup later this year will tighten it all up a bit
6. The computer is sensitive and also vague. When you get the flashing christmas lights on the dash, it could mean anything between dodgy trailer wiring, faulty sensors, or something serious that will destroy your engine. You should definitely invest in a Scangauge or OBDII scanner. My current intermittent error is a knock sensor high voltage. It could mean loose connection, faulty wiring , or a dodgy sensor (which needs the entire intake manifold, valley cover etc removed to access)
7. When you need to reset your car computer by disconnecting and reconnecting the battery, then locking & unlocking the car three times, you know that your car is now waaaay to dependent on electronics. This is not just a Toyota thing though, they are all like that now.
8. Vision is poor. A pillars are huge - can hide a small car or motobike if you are not careful, B & C pillars also not small. Nanny state says we need a trillion airbags now.
9. 17" & 18" (in my case) tyres are noticeably more expensive than 16's
10. Drinks like an alcoholic barmaid. I get 22 around town and 15-16 on highway (roofbag on flat rack, steel bullbar, AT's, packed to the rafters). Haven't towed the camper since we bought it yet due to an insane amount of kids sport chewing up every weekend so far. I do have a heavy foot though. Can probably improve it by driving like my Gran.
11. The Toyota muppets made the drivers side mirror a full convex mirror. WHY? I turn my head to check my blind spot. I don't need a another curvy mirror. It makes you think you have more room than you have when looking to change lanes, and makes it very hard when reversing a trailer to judge distances (especially the 10.5m rowing trailer.)
12. No 12v socket in the cargo area.
13. Downhill descent control sounds (and feels) like a pair of dwarves banging on your brake disk with a metal hammer
The good;
1. Stomp the loud pedal & it motors. The 4.7 is a sweet motor. I had driven a TD a couple of times before buying the petrol, and I reckon I like the petrol's response better. Plus couldn't justify the diesel's $10-15k premium over the same aged petrol. That is a lot of fuel saving to make up.
2. Wider in the second row than the Patrol, 60/40 split instead of the primitive 50/50 with centre lap only belt. This was actually the primary reason for moving away from the patrol. Kid #3 was getting bigger and now sitting on the uncomfortable split and no headrest or lap sash belt.
3. 8 seats is handy when your brats want their brat friends to come over.
4. Traction control is great - I can't this thing even close to breaking traction in the wet on the same corners that had my Patrol getting tail happy. Have had a touch of understeer on a wet corner I admittedly turned too sharply on.
5. Drives more like a car than truck, so wife is happier driving it. Quite and more refined in every way.
6. Because Toyotas hold their value, you can still get a novated lease on a car this old if that's what suits your situation.
7. A/C for second and third row is a huge plus and roof ducting manages the temperature nicely.
8. Keyless entry/start is nice. headlights off on door opening (this was a novelty for me coming out of a 18yo car ;D )
Sure there were a few more. ;D
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Just a heads up if you aren't aware of it.....If you order the vehicle via places such as Creative Conversions and get the chop done pre registration, the vehicle is then classified as a commercial vehicle and thus exempt from the luxury car sales tax.....in essence it save you something like $10 - $15K doing it that way.
Yep that's correct! Have had discussions with Transpec who have gone over the in's and outs of commercial GVM upgrade etc etc. As a ball park we drive away with dual cab conversion gvm upgrade to 3880 toyota tow bar and whatever is required with that. $92k. Less GST. You now have a legitimate dual cab with just under 1 tonne carrying capacity that is fully claimable as a commercial vehicle.
The maths works.......we just wanted to make sure it was the right vehicle for us. Not interested in 70 series.
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http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/somersby/cars-vans-utes/iveco-daily-55s17w/1107510498 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/somersby/cars-vans-utes/iveco-daily-55s17w/1107510498)
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GVM upgrades do nothing for towing capacity or CVM
If you're in the market for a relatively new tow vehicle with reliability, good AM accessory availability, good national dealer support, good road manners and comfort I really don't think there is anything that holds a candle to the 200 diesel. Some like to point out small issues, some valid, some purely subjective and others just born from tall poppy syndrome but the reality is there isn't a vehicle on the road in Australia that ticks all the boxes as strongly as the 200. But it's always been like that all through models of the Land Cruiser.
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To those who complain about the 'down hill assist' I have used it a few times and while it does make a racket it is brilliant. Worse time was coming down a very steep, part loose gravel, part sand and part flat rock not to mention sharp corners and all very wet and the 200 just cruised down. I just had to steer. Felt very safe and in full control. ;D. Kevin
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If you want to read about our experiences with the 200 Cruiser, our blog has a section on it.
http://rveethereyet.com/toyota-landcruiser-2015-vx-twin-turbo-diesel-v8-olaf/ (http://rveethereyet.com/toyota-landcruiser-2015-vx-twin-turbo-diesel-v8-olaf/)
Before we bought it, I didn't want to buy one. I'd avoided Landcruisers all these years and wasn't about to give in. Then I drove it. Hubba Bubba...!!!!
And fuel consumption...? Not that I could give a rat's ringatit, its a V8 after all but I'm certainly not complaining...!
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From Patrol 4x4 site.
Landcruiser v Y62 - Comparison
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Y62 Patrol vs 200 series Landcruiser diesel
Those on the Aussie Patrol Facebook page will have seen the report below, but for those not in the Facebook group, I thought I would repeat it here.
After 10 days of driving a 200 series Landcruiser back to back with a Y62, the results are in, and they are not what many might have expected.
We took two vehicles, a Y62 ST-L and a 200 series Sahara diesel, on an approximately 3300km trip to far South West Queensland. Starting in Brisbane, the journey took us to Toowoomba, Dalby, St George, Cunamulla, Eulo, Thargomindah, Noccundra, Euromanga, Quilpe, Yohah, the Culoga Floodplain NP, Moree, Inverell, Glen Innes, the Gibraltar Range NP and finally Hastings Point in Northern NSW (just below Tweed Heads) before returning the Brisbane.
The ST-L was stock, except for a Rhino Platform Rack. The Sahara has been set-up for towing a caravan, and has 200 kg rated springs, adjustable shock absorbers, bull bar, three batteries and an ARB roof rack. Although it hasn't been lifted (according to the owner, my uncle) it felt higher than stock ? I'd say about two inches.
Both vehicles had four passengers and their gear, with both roof racks being utilised for tents and swags etc. The Sahara carried the fridge, the ST-L the icebox, while passengers and drivers where changed on an at least daily basis. All up, there were four drivers, who each drove both vehicles, although my father spent most time in the Patrol, and I spent most time in the Landcruiser.
Unseasonal wet weather in the channel country frustrated our plans to really get off the beaten track, so most driving was on bitumen, although there was at least 400km or so of dirt roads and some proper off-roading while we looked for campsites off the road. Both cars travelled at the same speed, on the same roads, at the same time and went to the same places.
The Landcruiser used 475.17 l of diesel and travelled 3227km, an average fuel use of 14.72 litres per 100km. The total cost of the Landcruiser's fuel was $554.87 or $17.19 per 100kms.
The Patrol travelled 3281 km and used 470.74 l of a mix of 91 (with some octane booster), 95 and 98, an average fuel use of 14.34 l per 100 km. The total cost of the Patrol's fuel was $611.06 or $18.62 per 100 kms.
These figures were recorded on the Fuel Map app filling up at the same stations (except for the last fill of each vehicle) to three clicks and recording kms from the odometer.
I don't know how to share a screen shot of the app, but for those that care, here is the breakdown:
Patrol Landcruiser
10 May 491km @13.5 526km @ 14.6
10 May 298km @ 15.6 300km @ 16.3
11 May 212km @ 14.2 210km @ 16.4
13 May 367km @ 15.1 367km @ 12.5
14 May 214km @ 17.7 213km @ 18.6
16 May 398km @ 13.8 406km @ 13.2
17 May 554km @ 13.6 555km @ 13.2
20 May 747km @ 14.1 650km @ 15.7
All up, pretty bloody close, but a small win to the Patrol on litres used without taking into account handicaps. Maybe with a lift and a bullbar, it would have been the Landcruiser by a nose, we can only speculate, but I'm also confident that the Patrol's figures would have been better had I discovered sooner that my father had been driving it in 4wd high (rather than auto) on the blacktop for some 500kms! I'm also of the view that the Landcruiser's figures on 13 May and 14 May reflect that it wasn't filled to three clicks on the 13th, but was on the 14th, giving a low reading one the first day and a high reading on the second. This doesn't affect the final figures at all.
Other impressions? Well, the universal opinion was that the Patrol was the nicer vehicle to travel in. Everyone agreed that it was roomer, had nicer seats (many preffered the ST-L's cloth to the Sahara's leather), looked nicer, was more refined and offered a more compliant ride with less body roll. These impressions were no doubt in part due to the Landcruiser's beefed up caravan ready suspension, but the ride wasn't the only factor. Even my eight year old son ultimately wasn't persuaded by the offer of DVD's on the road in the Landcruiser.
And behind the wheel? Well, I own the ST-L but spent more time driving the Land Cruiser. The Land Cruiser imparts a feeling of go-anywhere ability and I certainly felt more comfortable with a bullbar up front (a must have mod in my opinion now). But where the Patrol seemed to shrink around you ? especially on the twisty roads of the Gibraltar Range ? the Land Cruiser always felt its size. Its engine, while clearly offering huge amounts of torque from low in the rev range, never felt as powerful as the Patrol's V8, and certainly had none of the buttery smoothness of the Y62. Whereas the Y62 could induce a grin, or terror, depending on how hard you pressed the pedal and Landcruiser's engine never excited. My wife, shortly after her first stint behind the wheel of the Patrol, had a go of the Land Cruiser. After a couple of kilometres she pulled over, as she felt the engine lacked power.
We didn't do any serious off-roading on this trip, but where the Land Cruiser went, so to went the Patrol without difficulty. Indeed, on both sand and on some muddy tracks, the Patrol on occasion seemed more sure footed, and a little less inclined to slide about, than the Land Cruiser but this is not a definitive conclusion on their respective capabilities, which we didn't go anywhere near to testing.
From an ergonomic perspective, I preferred the more modern, car-like, interior of the Patrol and was frustrated by the touch-screen of the Saraha's sat-nav come everything. Presumably, with experience, one can quickly navigate the Land Cruiser's controls but, as an example, while the aircon temperature is controlled by a button, you have to go to the screen to adjust fan speed, which means taking your eyes off the road. That said, the Land Cruiser's seats offered more adjustment that the ST-L's and I think the Toyota's cruise control is better calibrated ? the Patrol surges when adjusting speed using the steering wheel button whereas the Land Cruiser adjusts its speed much more smoothly. TIL owners might have a great range of adjustment, I don't know.
Was there anything in the fully specced Sahara that I wished I had in the less-than-half-the-cost STL? In short ? not really, at least not on this trip. It annoy's me that the ST-L doesn't have an audio input; its lack of sat-nav in town is annoying; and off road I'd like the compass and other information (yaw angle, departure angle etc) that the Land Cruiser (and no doubt TIL) offer, but I didn't need any of these things this time. Nor was the chilled glove box of the Land Cruiser a must have feature ? we turned it off so we could fill it with the usual things that clutter a cabin on a long trip.
In relation to the boots of both vehicles, the ST-L's is superior (if both vehicles' third row seats are retained), as the side mounted seats of the Land Cruiser rob it of huge amounts of room. I took out the third rows in both vehicles and while the Patrol probably has fractionally more volume the Land Cruiser was fractionally wider, and offered a flat floor while the Patrol had a large well (where the feet of third row passengers go). This we used to our advantage stacking stretcher beds, but if you need a flat floor you will have to either buy a TIL or take out the third row seats and build a false floor.
So, which one would I drive home in if given the choice? Personally, I'd take the Patrol, as I don't need a lug for a caravan. Were I towing a caravan, I don't know, as I haven't compared the two back to back in this role and can't comment. Without a van though, the Patrol offers a roomier, better looking and more comfortable cabin, is a much nicer vehicle to drive across patchy blacktop and freeways alike and, for those who love driving, has in my opinion a much nicer drivetrain without much, if any, of a fuel economy penalty. It's four wheel drive system, with a standard lockable centre and rear differentials is also, in my opinion, a more complete and easier to use system than that of a stock Land Cruiser, although this is in no way a comparison of their respective abilities off road. All that said, the choice I had to make was between a near-new second hand Patrol with two years and more than 80,000km of warranty to a 5 or 6 year old GXL 200 series with 80,000 kms plus on the clock and no warranty. At the end of the day, I'm happy with the choice I made.
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be a more interesting comparison if petrol v petrol with the diesel as a bonus. Shame part of the comparison did not include a tow section
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Just a couple of points that may or may not be worth thinking about.
Economy: Every time I bolt something in to my 200 series, it increases fuel consumption by 1 litre per 100 km. Bull bar 1 litre. Roof racks 1 litre. 33's 1 litre. 2 inch lift 1 litre. But I guess tha's true of an vehicle.
If there's one thing I really don't like about my 200 series is the aircon temperature control. The temperature you get has no relationship whatever with the temperature you ask for. Even with the aircon turned off, it is rubbish.
Throttle lag is also an issue. But I have found that feathering the throttle a little before you gun it solves the problem.
I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.
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Owned a 12/2007 sahara diesel (ie the very first) since Aug 2012. The only non-service item fixed has been a water pump. Cost (warranty) circa $900 fitted.
Owned a 4/2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland V8 from 06/2006 til acquiring 200.
$30k in receipts outside of serviceable items eg brakes.
The only.conclusion here is why i wasn't locked up in a high security facility years b4 ...
Summing up...there are those with 200series, ....and those who want to own them
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Who, me???
Nope... ;)
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Pm sent
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Not wanting a debate. Just real life experience with the 200.
Thanks IanC
G'day Ian,
My 200 Series is an Aug '09 model, 205,000 km, and I still love it. Yes it burns fuel, no more than my previous 2 'Trols but with significantly more grunt and comfort.
It's only let me down a couple of times, traced to some gunk in the fuel tank that caused fuel starvation when the tank was low ? but not empty.
The only warranty work I had done was a replacement hazard light switch. And on an outback trip the glove box wouldn't stay closed to Broome Toyota replaced it.
Apart from normal filters etc, it's had 2 sets of front brake pads, the second being fitted at the 200k service. The fuel issue cost me $800 ish I think, for a replacement xxxx (can't remember what). I've found it to be very reliable, still goes well, and my youngest son is trying to convince me to sell it to him. I've told him not to hold his breath.
It's a very capable vehicle, I tow 2.2 tonne with ease, and were I to replace it, it's unlikely I'd choose anything else.
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Can I chip in & ask whats better, 2005/6 100 series or early model 200 series, were now in the market once the 80 is gone & am struggling a bit with this. Can get similar models for similar prices & then factor in upgrades. 76 is also in the back of the mind but don't like turning circle
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Having read a plethora of y62 v 200 reports now , why are people surprised that a 2013 model 4x4 is more impressive than a 2007 developed model ?
For me the 3 litre debacle and Nissans atrocious warranty approach with it (also witnessed first hand on an X trail) is a large part of why I'd be wary of a Y62.
I have no issues with having a petrol either but you can't ignore the resale of the diesels as being an advantage. Last year my boss decided he wanted a low km secondhand GXL, they were $70k and if fitted with extras vanished from car sales quick as. I organise him a brand new GXL for $78,600.