MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Beachman on October 26, 2015, 03:21:53 PM
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Over the past couple of months I’ve read a couple of threads with owners giving feedback on how well their new Ute or mid-size wagon is performing, but I’ve also see a couple of instances where some of these owners were questioned when they said there new 4WD was equal or better than there old live axle Patrol/Cruiser etc.
I have to be honest and admit up until recently I also questioned how these new 4WD’s could be better than the live axle Patrol/Cruisers as for years these were the kings of 4WDing.
Over the past 12 months I’ve been 4WDing with one mate who owns a Auto Ford ranger which apart from a steel tray is stock standard even with Highway tyres and another mate also has a standard manual BT50 with Dunlop AT tyres, but these are far from an aggressive tyre.
I have a Live axle 100 series Cruiser with a 1HZ which has a 2 inch lift and Bridgestone AT tyres and it’s been my goal for the last 12 months to get these guys stuck or find a track they can’t do or need me to recover them. Our outings have included some severely rutted tracks in the mountains and some soft and chewed up beaches. (I know extreme tracks would be different, but none of us are into those tracks as our 4WD’s are also are daily drives)
During our outings neither of these 4WD’s got stuck and easily kept up with me, but my 2 inch lift did make it a faction easier as there bash plates did cop a bashing. Even on the beach one day we were returning at high tide pushing soft sand and I was constantly changing from 2nd to 3rd where my mate in the manual BT50 held 4th gear.
I have to say I’m personally very impressed with these new technology 4WD’s and it has got me thinking about trading in the Cruiser. These new 4WD’s are have far better fuel economy, more torque for towing the camping and much more comfortable on road. (If I won Lotto I would buy a twin turbo 200 series Cruiser) but when the times does come to change 4WD’s, a ute could be on the cards.
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BM, I know what your saying. A friend of mine took her brand new bog standard Isuzu ute up to Fraser with me a few months ago & it was pretty impressive I must say. She showed up a few of the gung ho, certain magazine reading types at Ngkala rocks, much to my enjoyment ;D
However, your still running around with the old 1HZ & I'm still running around in my old '93 1HZ ute with after market turbo. I have my doubts that many of these small, turbo diesel, high output utes will last like ours.
Steve
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I have my doubts that many of these small, turbo diesel, high output utes will last like ours.
:cup:
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BM, I know what your saying. A friend of mine took her brand new bog standard Isuzu ute up to Fraser with me a few months ago & it was pretty impressive I must say. She showed up a few of the gung ho, certain magazine reading types at Ngkala rocks, much to my enjoyment ;D
However, your still running around with the old 1HZ & I'm still running around in my old '93 1HZ ute with after market turbo. I have my doubts that many of these small, turbo diesel, high output utes will last like ours.
Steve
Too true, it seems these days that they are made to last the length of the warranty.
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I tend to agree.
My 80 series is 1 owner prior to me and its a 94,
It came with full service history all done by toyota.
Reading through it its never had anything major done and its on about 330k now
Ive got a vibration in the driveline somewhere witch i thinks a uni and ive just done a clutch and all the seals including the rear main witch was leaking other than that everything is 20 years old or so and still going strong
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Too true, it seems these days that they are made to last the length of the warranty.
You are 100% right the older cars were built to last, my only concern is with all the new environmental laws on diesel engines how long will it be until you have to fit some aftermarket piece of equipment to meet the current pollution requirements intern affecting the performance and or reliability of the cars?
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You are 100% right the older cars were built to last, my only concern is with all the new environmental laws on diesel engines how long will it be until you have to fit some aftermarket piece of equipment to meet the current pollution requirements intern affecting the performance and or reliability of the cars?
Im waiting until some cleaver bloke comes up with a hybrid donk to repower all these old trucks.
Its got to happen eventualy,either that or a alternative fuel that isnt petrol,or diesel
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I've got a 2013 Triton that I bought new in the run out sales in March last year. It's got 45k on the clock, about 90% of that is highway. It won't keep a wheel alignment, I'm always having to tighten something up on it that's rattling off inside & out, it's just had a rear leaf spring collapse on it because the journey to Toowoomba & back with a half empty camper trailer was too tough on it & it's thirsty.
I swapped a 2000 model non turbo hilux for this & I'm constantly kicking myself for it. The only two things better about the Triton are it's quieter & the air con works better.
This was meant to be a 10 year car, we are now trying to pay it off fast so we can get rid of it asap.
I want my old banger back again :'(
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You are 100% right the older cars were built to last, my only concern is with all the new environmental laws on diesel engines how long will it be until you have to fit some aftermarket piece of equipment to meet the current pollution requirements intern affecting the performance and or reliability of the cars?
Yea I'm on to that. I'm looking for one of those VeeDub sensor thingies ;D
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I have always worked on the idea that it is far cheaper to fix what you have than update.
My 80series was purchased 10 years ago with 260k on the clock. Now has done 400k, most towing and off road. Newer vehicles may give a better comfort level but I am more than happy to stay with old technology (or lack of technology), and spend a few $ now and then when things break or wear out. So far have only needed to do a rear diff in all those k's.
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I have always worked on the idea that it is far cheaper to fix what you have than update.
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Can't argue with that.
Forget about running costs, or setup $$$, depreciation is the killer....
:cheers:
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Im waiting until some cleaver bloke comes up with a hybrid donk to repower all these old trucks.
Or pour in used cooking oil (being careful to filter out the old chip bits 1st of course :D) they will run happily on stuff that will see my flash electronic BT50 riding home on a tilt tray and a 4 figure repair bill.
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Unfortionatly mines petrol so that options off the table but having said that its got alot more grunt
I like the look of the 80 series to.
Its a grouse looking bus
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Not knocking everyone's choice of transport but the newer vehicles have fan dangled technology like front and side airbags, stability control, ABS and the list goes on. I like this with my family in the car.
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Not knocking everyone's choice of transport but the newer vehicles have fan dangled technology like front and side airbags, stability control, ABS and the list goes on. I like this with my family in the car.
Theres been a Shitload of accidents older 4x4s that didnt result in deaths because they were better made even minus the safty features.
The only plus of ne vechiles is fuel economy and airbags,and id still argue well built older cars of the 90s ect are stronger and had abs ect so are probably close to as safe unless its a total write off witch would probably render occupants of either knackered.
Fair call new vechiles have alot more safty features but people have been killed by airbags and assisted breaking too
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You are 100% right the older cars were built to last, my only concern is with all the new environmental laws on diesel engines how long will it be until you have to fit some aftermarket piece of equipment to meet the current pollution requirements intern affecting the performance and or reliability of the cars?
Never fear........if that ever eventuates Volkswagen will be on the front foot and design an anti pollution gear bypass setup for sure :P
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Oh, yeah, there is the whole 'rolling death trap' thing, but they go for ever!
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Easy fixed.......don't crash......
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Easy fixed.......don't crash......
Exactly
And if you do dont do it in a bambina
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Theres been a Shitload of accidents older 4x4s that didnt result in deaths because they were better made even minus the safty features.
Fair call new vechiles have alot more safty features but people have been killed by airbags and assisted breaking too
Reminds me of the arguments when seat belts became compulsory. So many said they are death traps. You car is on fire and you are trapped. Stupid law blah blah blah. Now we know how they have saved so many lives. Well I hope we all know that. ???
So I wonder how many have been killed by airbags? How many have been saved? Older cars being stronger, absolutely. But what about the better crumple zones now in modern cars? When we looked at buying our 4WD I hated all of the tech stuff and what could go wrong, but now 6 years later I love that stuff. Mind you where once I could fix a few things now I would not touch a thing. Way too scary. ;D Kevin
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I will be sticking with me old 1973 Nissan/Datsun Patrol and the Old Girl ( 1991 GQ Nissan wagon ) for some time yet, But if I win lotto I would buy a new Nissan Patrol’s V with the K56VD 5.6 litre V8 engine.
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Reminds me of the arguments when seat belts became compulsory.
So I wonder how many have been killed by airbags? How many have been saved? My partner had a slow speed accident, in a modern car, Air bag went off, she suffered sever burn to arms and face from the air bag Older cars being stronger, absolutely. But what about the better crumple zones now in modern cars?The slow speed accident folded the whole front end in, between the air bag cost and panel damage the car was a right off When we looked at buying our 4WD I hated all of the tech stuff and what could go wrong, but now 6 years later I love that stuff. Mind you where once I could fix a few things now I would not touch a thing. Way too scary. ;D Kevin
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Reminds me of the arguments when seat belts became compulsory. So many said they are death traps. You car is on fire and you are trapped. Stupid law blah blah blah. Now we know how they have saved so many lives. Well I hope we all know that. ???
So I wonder how many have been killed by airbags? How many have been saved? Older cars being stronger, absolutely. But what about the better crumple zones now in modern cars? When we looked at buying our 4WD I hated all of the tech stuff and what could go wrong, but now 6 years later I love that stuff. Mind you where once I could fix a few things now I would not touch a thing. Way too scary. ;D Kevin
Im not talking 40 series,im talking 80 series.
They were years ahead of alot of thier opersition in safty features too.
The no seatbelt arguement is another conversation all together although not relevant to old tech vs new tech it is a no brainer seatbelts save lives.
there has been massive amounts of deaths caused by airbags especialy on childern in restraints in the front seat.
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I have a 2000 model petrol 6 cyl cruiser that's done 167000 klm and only 25,000 with the recon motor. As much as I would like to upgrade the costs of doing it far out way the costs in holding my current vehicle. I have it set up how I want it and living here in the desert it tackles the corrugations great. Apart from the odd service and a few things to fix it is still a great touring car.
It's worth nothing as a trade in so I would rather spend the money on a nice hybrid etc. also less electronics to worry about. Plus I own it. ;D
Mark
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I will be sticking with me old 1973 Nissan/Datsun Patrol and the Old Girl ( 1991 GQ Nissan wagon ) for some time yet, But if I win lotto I would buy a new Nissan Patrol’s V with the K56VD 5.6 litre V8 engine.
Mine is a 93 so a baby. A 62 would be sweet.
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I have a 2000 model petrol 6 cyl cruiser......................
Plus I own it. ;D
Mark
:cup:
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I have a 2000 model petrol 6 cyl cruiser that's done 167000 klm and only 25,000 with the recon motor. As much as I would like to upgrade the costs of doing it far out way the costs in holding my current vehicle. I have it set up how I want it and living here in the desert it tackles the corrugations great. Apart from the odd service and a few things to fix it is still a great touring car.
It's worth nothing as a trade in so I would rather spend the money on a nice hybrid etc. also less electronics to worry about. Plus I own it. ;D
Mark
X2 :cup: :cup: :cup:
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Yea keeping and repairing is good value but where is the cross over point?
My 1998 prado was neatly faultless for the 17 years I had it (220,000km) worth only $7k when I sold it a few months ago.....will I get that from my 200 series? Dunno, so far nearly 6 years and 150,000km and done way more offroad than the prado. We were always of the opinion to keep our trucks for as long as possible but I question the idea with the 200....right now if the injection goes bad we are up for $10-20k to repair, as it stands if I sell it to buy a new one we would need to fork out $30k to update, getting perilously close to being better to update more often (extras we added not withstanding) than keep, give me another 5 years to work it out :)
I think the best time frame was mid 90's to mid 2000's for good solid trucks
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Agree that some modern 4bees are pretty capable out of the box probably Moreso than a standard patrol or cruiser (which either aren't much chop as standard anyway). With all th electronic Traction aids and all they go put a lot of the big boys to shame.
Marketing also plays a big part in what a vehicles can vs should be able to do. Don't believe all you see in the ads.
Better safety features are a big plus for the family and good fuel economy is also a good thing.
What I worry about is the longevity of the package and as said previously they are built to last the warranty period.
Still Love my patrol and I've thought about parting with it a few times but just can't find a suitable replacement that I think will have the strength and ability for a reasonable cost, Plus I own it and it does everything I ask of it.
And being fairly modern 2011 it has quite good safety features, quiet, comfortable and ok on the juice.
If I was to upgrade it would be an SUV for the missus and I'd KEEP THE REAL 4WD ;D
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I have a foot in both camps at the moment. 2015 Pajero and a 96 80 series Cruiser. About the only thing they have in common is that they are both auto and both 4wd. Which would I rather have offroad?..............The Cruiser. Hands down. Does everything easier. Not that I.ve had this Paj off road, but our 03 NP that we just got rid of, had been wheeled a bit.
Give me the older truck for my style of offroading any day.
Cheers, Mike.
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For me its maintain and reco as needed an older truck and upgrade its specs to give the comforts and power and economy [ now theres two words that rarely go together ] of the newer vehicles , as good as the newer electrical artificial intelegence aided whiz bangers are [ To me they breed dumber steerers ] , Where do you start looking amongst all the techno gizzmo and get help with when something goes south out in the back blocks of nowhere to get it going again .. Guess thats what a sat phone is for . ;D
At least with an old rig, generaly its either a fuel or spark spark problem .. and can be jerry rigged to keep mobile if need be ..
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For me its maintain and reco as needed an older truck and upgrade its specs to give the comforts and power and economy [ now theres two words that rarely go together ] of the newer vehicles , as good as the newer electrical artificial intelegence aided whiz bangers are [ To me they breed dumber steerers ] , Where do you start looking amongst all the techno gizzmo and get help with when something goes south out in the back blocks of nowhere to get it going again .. Guess thats what a sat phone is for . ;D
At least with an old rig, generaly its either a fuel or spark spark problem .. and can be jerry rigged to keep mobile if need be ..
To be honest most of the new breed have a limp home mode available. The problem is more parts and mechanics that are used to dealing with a particular model.
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I've got a 2013 Triton that I bought new in the run out sales in March last year. It's got 45k on the clock, about 90% of that is highway. It won't keep a wheel alignment, I'm always having to tighten something up on it that's rattling off inside & out, it's just had a rear leaf spring collapse on it because the journey to Toowoomba & back with a half empty camper trailer was too tough on it & it's thirsty.
I swapped a 2000 model non turbo hilux for this & I'm constantly kicking myself for it. The only two things better about the Triton are it's quieter & the air con works better.
This was meant to be a 10 year car, we are now trying to pay it off fast so we can get rid of it asap.
I want my old banger back again :'(
i find that strange might just be one built on a Friday before a long weekend as my 07 ml is never needing anything but basic maintenance i have finally got a rear leaf spring bushing on it way out cause it squeaks a little on bumps but that just gives me an excuse to upgrade the suspension. Im regularly towing the work trailer(1200kgs) and bike trailer with it (600kgs approx) through all sorts of stuff and its never had a problem with alignments have you tired a different tyre store or mechanic?
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It's worth nothing as a trade in so I would rather spend the money on a nice hybrid etc. also less electronics to worry about. Plus I own it. ;D
Mark
A old excavator operator told me once the machine that makes you the most money is the one you own.
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Would agree with the op. If the bank was a little more friendly ( ok a lot more ;D ) I would be out of my GU and into a Y62 like a fat kid into an icecream.
The older I get the more comfort I crave.
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I noticed the ability of a few newer vehicles when we were at Rainbow last. A soft patch of sand opposite our camp stopped many people. But a LOT of newish stock vehicles drove straight through it effortlessly.
Obviously driver experience has a lot to do with it, but there were many, many people there that I'm sure had never even been to the beach before, drive straight through in std vehicles. Many didn't too ;D
Also a lot of lifted, tyred, accessorised up "trucks" that sank in that sand in almost an instant. Some egos were tarnished there. ;D
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I noticed the ability of a few newer vehicles when we were at Rainbow last. A soft patch of sand opposite our camp stopped many people. But a LOT of newish stock vehicles drove straight through it effortlessly.
Obviously driver experience has a lot to do with it, but there were many, many people there that I'm sure had never even been to the beach before, drive straight through in std vehicles. Many didn't too ;D
Also a lot of lifted, tyred, accessorised up "trucks" that sank in that sand in almost an instant. Some egos were tarnished there. ;D
I agree, but I also think the auto's play a massive part in it also.
It was also an eye opener watching a stock y62 go the same distance on a travel ramp as a 2inch lifted GU with 33's. Lot to be said for traction control. The thing was rocking on two wheels and wanted to keep going.
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I miss my old 60 series but it just doesn't compare to my 2008 Prado. My Prado has gone everywhere my stock 60 series went, faster, using less fuel, in more comfort and with less driver stress. The 60 was costing more than it was worth to keep on the road (rusted, using 2litres of oil per 1000km, transfer case seal gone, crappy single speaker tape deck) but I do miss the gearing in L1 though.
Realistically the newer trucks are going to go most places that most of us want to take them to.
Traction control on the new trucks is just as good in most cases as a locker.
The new autos are brilliant over the old 3 and 4 speeds
I'd rather crash in a modern car than a 60 or 80 series. Roll my 60 series and I would have been squashed flat, my rear passengers would not do as well as they would in my Prado. The passenger cells in cars these days are incredible.
Longevity - who knows, but there are many old trucks that didn't make it and aren't out there being driven, and there are many modern trucks that are still going strong despite the horror stories. There's plenty of fleet D4D Hilux's/GU's out there pushing 400,000km.
Realistically its as much about the driver and picking decent lines as it is about the 4wd technology. If you don't believe me look at his Fiat showing up the locked and loaded Jeeps and Landrovers:
https://www.facebook.com/1407587569463211/videos/1684098471812118/ (https://www.facebook.com/1407587569463211/videos/1684098471812118/)
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I miss my old 60 series but it just doesn't compare to my 2008 Prado. My Prado has gone everywhere my stock 60 series went, faster, using less fuel, in more comfort and with less driver stress. The 60 was costing more than it was worth to keep on the road (rusted, using 2litres of oil per 1000km, transfer case seal gone, crappy single speaker tape deck) but I do miss the gearing in L1 though.
Realistically the newer trucks are going to go most places that most of us want to take them to.
Traction control on the new trucks is just as good in most cases as a locker.
The new autos are brilliant over the old 3 and 4 speeds
I'd rather crash in a modern car than a 60 or 80 series. Roll my 60 series and I would have been squashed flat, my rear passengers would not do as well as they would in my Prado. The passenger cells in cars these days are incredible.
Longevity - who knows, but there are many old trucks that didn't make it and aren't out there being driven, and there are many modern trucks that are still going strong despite the horror stories. There's plenty of fleet D4D Hilux's/GU's out there pushing 400,000km.
Realistically its as much about the driver and picking decent lines as it is about the 4wd technology. If you don't believe me look at his Fiat showing up the locked and loaded Jeeps and Landrovers:
https://www.facebook.com/1407587569463211/videos/1684098471812118/ (https://www.facebook.com/1407587569463211/videos/1684098471812118/)
Yeah I miss my old 60 series too, especially the rust holes in the roof during winter, and that feeling of being strapped onto a rampaging snail.
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Lol
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Yeah I miss my old 60 series too, especially the rust holes in the roof during winter, and that feeling of being strapped onto a rampaging snail.
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Or the brakes that you never quite knew were going to stop you... stopping... stopping....stopping? FFS STOP!!!! Phew!
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I've enjoyed reading this thread as I've just been through the process myself. I have an old R50 (2000) Pathfinder that I've owned since new, never missed a service. In 15 years, I've replaced 3 sets of tyres and 2 batteries ...other than scheduled servicing...she's been a cracker. But, when it came up for rego, and with a pending 4500 trip towing my boat coming up, I had some serious questions to answer.
The tyres were ready for replacing and the suspension was shot, plus, there were the nice'ities that were not as they should be. Although it would not be my choice of tow vehicle, $$ precluded replacing it with what would have been nice..... So I guess I have now over capitalised in that I've spent about $5k on it. New suspension all round, new entertainment head set, new speakers, air con back to new, brake controller and Anderson plug added for what I hope wil feed a trailer in the not too distant future..plus the tyres of course. Then the regular service ...tranny included on top.
Have I made the right decision .... Well, once I get past 12 months with hopefully no major dramas, I'll consider the answer a yes.... Everything after that will be a bonus.
As much as a slug as she is....I love my pathy. 😀
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Latestarter
you spent $5k on an older car, but if you had changed over for a later model you would have spent many thousands, then probably lost $10k in the first year to depreciation
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I have the best of both worlds covered, the FJ45 ute for the rough work and the 200 for the touring
GG
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I have always worked on the idea that it is far cheaper to fix what you have than update.
My 80series was purchased 10 years ago with 260k on the clock. Now has done 400k, most towing and off road. Newer vehicles may give a better comfort level but I am more than happy to stay with old technology (or lack of technology), and spend a few $ now and then when things break or wear out. So far have only needed to do a rear diff in all those k's.
same with my '96 pajero escape - and I reckon if I'd looked after the drive line better I may not have had to have the rear diff replaced even if its lsd
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Have been tempted to upgrade our 97 Disco 1 300TDI for a while now but would really miss the simplicity of the engine and the fact I can service it myself for around $100 a year as I have done for the past 15 years. Its a low power unit for sure and wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding when compared with modern high tech common rail diesels, its also smoky and noisy but it just keeps going and the only issues I have had in all these years have been auto box related. Some blokes on the AULRO forum have got in excess of 1 million km's on the original motors which is impressive and shows what a low tech diesel can do. Manages to tow our 1000kg camper around without any drama's but if we upgrade to a bigger caravan then that will be the time to look at something with more grunt ;D
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New tech.. one bad batch of fuel the world comes to an end... thousands of large bux later.
old tech - **** I ran my GQ with 1/2 a tank of petrol in it by accident once.. just drove home 20+klms.. drained it filled with diesel and 100k klms later still as good as ever
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We went from a Ute and a Wagon to just a ute, the ute had 2 airbags only. The wagon 6 airbags ABS, EBD all the good letters. Ask me which one I would rather be in, in a crash, the fancy one. The new ute is also a an Ancap 5 Star I am spending the money doing it up, I may not do the mad 4wd driving now as it is our only car, but its still going off road.
I work as a Paramedic I have been to a lot of accidents, Airbags save lives!!! proper child restraints save lives. I do not plan on having an accident, but!!!
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I have read this post with interest. I am not one of those people who believe older cars are better or that modern vehicles aren't built to last. I have been buying cars since 1973 and have had many, many different vehicles. And the older ones were complete rubbish, frankly. I may have loved them, and they may have helped me to do fantastic things, but frankly, why would anyone want to go back?
None of which explains why I own a 1978 Jaguar XJS, a car which requires more ongoing maintenance than the Sydney Harbour Bridge! But for its time, it was amazing, and that engine still is.
My everyday car is a modern, sophisticated, powerful, fuel efficient AWD wagon, beautifully built and incredibly capable, with all the equipment you could ever need. I do plenty of kms, it is my company car. But my 4WD to tow the camper was a '96 Jackaroo 3.2 petrol, with good offroad tyres. It was a plodder, super reliable and well built, but drank like a sailor on shore leave, was sluggish, the brakes overheated going downhill with the camper on (until I put big DBAs on it), it struggled uphill when towing and generally drove like an early 1990s 4WD. But it did what I asked of it, slowly and competently, never missed a beat.
But I recently bought a bigger, heavier camper, and I am going to go further afield with it now work is less of an impediment. So I went through the decision process of trading both for a new 4WD with all the bells and whistles, heaps of grunts and traction aids.
Now, I am not frightened of electronics anymore, having taught myself how to maintain and repair modern fuel injected stuff and use a laptop and diagnostic tools. Trust me, I am no talented mechanic, just a determined plodder who used the internet and skilled friends to help me. If I can do it, you can.
What did I do? Buy a shiny new expensive powerful turbodiesel 4WD with the lot? No. I bought a mint, later model Jackaroo 3.5 petrol (the diesel is troublesome) and kept the car. I couldn't give up having a proper car for everyday driving. Yep, its two regos, the Jackaroo is a bit slow and thirsty by current standards, but its still reasonably capable offroad. I know my way around it, and I am upgrading plenty of stuff but doing most of it myself. Little depreciation to come, low purchase cost.
Each to their own I guess. And I would still like a modern 4WD with the lot down the track. They do things so well, and so easily.
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Yeah it's interesting.
When I have to replace the pathy, I'm now thinking I might go petrol again. Several mechanics have warned me off modern turbo oil burners when a lot of use will be in the city. Given I live in Sydney and a lot of the miles will be stop start, this apparently is not good for them.
One of the issues is that the trend seems to be away from petrol tugs. The most I will be towns is 2T and it won't be that often that it will be lots of miles..... I'm a bit off retirement yet 😀
I would love to hear feedback from people with modern high output low capacity diesels that have clocked up toward 200k kms including a lot of city driving.
Never thought it would be on the radar, but an FJ cruiser with that 4 Orr jobby is looking the goods down the track
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Can't go past a good T model Ford, they don't make cars like that anymore. Funny how blokes get so attached to their cars and think nothing could ever replace them. I just traded a 5 year old Hyundai IX35 turbo diesel, two liter motor producing amazing power and nearly 400nm of torque. People said it would not last because it was so "stressed" when in reality it produced max torque at 1800rpm and would pull like a train from idle. It would also give a WRX a scare at the lights. It had 85K on it and still felt like the day I drove it home. It would not surprise me if that engine lasted 500K.
Before that I had a 3ltr Patrol, great car that I thought could go anywhere and do it cheaper than most similar cars on the market. It had no power off the turbo and the brakes were only there for show but I still loved it. I now have an Isuzu MUX, the three liter diesel is the same they use in their trucks and has a life expectancy the equal of any motor out there. It does everything so much better than the Patrol. More power right through the rev range, better traction in the soft stuff, brakes that work just like a normal car, much better drive experience on the highway and uses even less fuel than the Patrol. I bought it to last 20 years and I have no doubts at all about it doing it.
We seem to become very attached to our cars but if you shop around it is easy to see that improvements are being made. I have driven a lot of the new 4x4's on the market and nearly all of them are much better than all the old classics.
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I love my 80 and for 20 years old its cost me nothing.
My mrs piece of Shit astra thats 1/4 the age got to a certain birthday and everything shat itself at once.
Holden rebadge the Shittist of the Shittist when it comes to small cars.
Ever since the torana theyve just rebadged Shit you can't sell anywhere else.
As far as im concerned boycott ford and holden.
They owned the market and through thier own Shit decisions they got bailed out billions to keep work here..... they make Shit cars and further more they sold aussie out.
**** them quite frankly
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Interesting thread read so far. My thoughts on the old vs. new debate includes a few points:
1: Maintenance/Servicing - If your handy with the spanners and can do all the maintenance and servicing work yourself then drive something that's out of warranty so you can do it yourself. If your a complete numpty mechanically then drive something newer and pay the cheaper servicing cost. I think older vehicles in general could potentially cost more if your paying someone to repair/service them. In saying that, cars are just machines and in general machines tend to fail early (called infant mortality) so I wouldn't expect anything major to fail on any older car (common failure modes for models excluded)
2: Safety - Newer cars are designed for passenger safety a lot more than in the past so there's defiantly a valid argument for using newer cars IMHO. No one plans to jump in their car and say to themselves today is the day I have an accident. Just over a year ago my family where involved in a high speed rollover in our 97 80 series landcruiser. In our situation if our landcruiser had stability control then it would have intervened and either prevented it going over or at worse case minimised the severity of the roll. My wife was driving at the time and simply reacted the wrong way when she dropped a couple of wheels onto the dirt shoulder, happens so quickly and you don't get the opportunity for a second chance. I read a report from the American insurance institute in regards to car safety - generally speaking they reported that cars from the early and mid 90's are the worst for safety of the passengers - the cars from the late 80s where better!.
3: Using a 4wd Offroad - Really who wants to bash and scratch up a brand spanking new 4wd offroad! (actually if I won lotto I might do 8) )
So for me after the destruction of our old 80 series, we replaced it with a 05 Land Rover discovery 3. It suits me as I do all my own maintenance work and there's heaps of products on the market for them in regards to diagnostic's so I'm covered for the "modern technology" side. Its old enough that I'm not fussed if I get a few bush pin stripes (brought it with a few already on). Its also new enough to have some vital safety features like DSC which after going through what we did I wouldn't have a high centre of gravity car without it now.
The newer car does have some drawbacks compared to the old 80 - I am more aware of the fuel quality due to the modern turbo diesel compared to the old 1HZ in the 80. There are some items that require a bit more maintenance or they wear out quicker and some parts can be more expensive. But in general towing the camper in my D3 is so much nicer than my old cruiser - I can power up the hills now without having to slow down to 60km/h, its quieter inside, more comfortable (for all the family - all 4 kids!)and uses less fuel. It is a different car to drive offroad however, the old 80 was more point and shoot. Put it in 4wd and away you go. Im still getting used to driving the disco offroad, combination of its terrain response and the auto gearbox means its a learning curve for me and Im still getting used to it. In all honesty I still prefer the old school 4wd approach that my 80 had, however ask me the same question in another years time and I might have changed my mind ;D
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Oldandslow.
I really do appreciate your comments. Firstly , I'm hanging onto my pathy at the moment purely because I can't afford to replace it and it has been reliable. That's it.
Now that said, I acknowledge that at some point I will have to replace it and then the question becomes with what ?
My previous question really revolves around whether the new generation diesels are not suited to city driving long term. 85k out of your ix35 is no where near proving longevity. It may well turn out that it does the long term with little trouble .... But the runs aren't on the board yet.
The MUX and DMax are certainly something I would consider ... Actually I will, but luckily when the time comes for me, my previous question about reliability where there has been a lot of city driving involved will be more easily answered re the modern diesels.
I don't want to go back to a TModel, I wouldn't have thought an FJ cruiser fell into that category. I just hope the manufacturers keep developing good petrol donks so we have a choice
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shanegtr - some interesting points you raise which I predominantly agree with. Modern vehicles offer so much more in terms of performance, handling, safety and capability, plus build quality and engineering in most cases has improved dramatically.
One of the challenges here in Australia for us 4WD people who want to travel remotely is how harsh the conditions are, and much different to those found in most other countries apart, perhaps, from parts of Africa and South America. Also, the remoteness, particularly from towns and assistance, is not really matched anywhere except perhaps Siberia. That poses unique challenges.
On the diesel vs petrol issue, that's a tricky one. One of them is the risk of picking up water and other contamination in fuel in remotes spots. This is most dangerous for diesel. In speaking to a well regarded diesel specialists, he told me of many instances of travellers' and farm vehicles requiring major, expensive repairs from ingesting contaminants. A Discovery 2.7TD that required $17,000 worth, a Landcruiser not much less, various ordinary utes and traytops at around $8,000. The problems affect older more basic engines too, but a bit less so because of the lack of high pressure fuel systems, but the cost to repair is lower too because of fewer, cheaper parts.
His advice? Either fit a premium quality water separator/filter system and check it/maintain it religiously, and have the car properly serviced regularly by knowledgeable people, just accept that diesels require more servicing and care, particularly as they age. Or else, buy a strong petrol engine vehicle, add an extra filter and a long range tank and pay a bit more for petrol, but save on servicing and lower maintenance/repair costs.
Particular models, such as the 3.0 turbodiesel Jackaroo, some Toyota engines (one series of Prado D4D and the early V8TD Landcruiser, some Hyundai/Kias, Merc diesels in the earlier Jeep Grand Cherokee and others, these are just examples) have proved troublesome. But overall, modern engines were well made and reliable, and the biggest risk for offroaders was the water issue and lack of quality maintenance. And he said that from a business point of view, he was very pleased to be in the diesel maintenance trade!
Many people have great experiences with their modern diesels. A chap in the UK who deals in and moves classic cars did 540,000 MILES in his Disco 3 2.7TD mostly towing a car trailer which was often well loaded around UK and Europe), before needing a top end rebuild (he replaced it with a new engine and did various other items while there, then kept using it). On Landrover sites I have seen many with more than 300,000kms+ largely trouble-free. You will find similar example on other brand forums. Not surprisingly, people who do high kms tend to prefer diesels.
On the other hand I have just sold our 300,000km old 2000 Astra auto to a friend, a great little car that drives really well, feels tight and is reliable. It had a rebuilt head at 270,000 after a blown head gaskets, replacements of brakes, shockers, O2 sensor, aircon compressor and a few little electrical gremlins. Feels like it will do many more kms and interior almost like new. Have another at 200,000kms that feels great too.
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Now, I am not frightened of electronics anymore, having taught myself how to maintain and repair modern fuel injected stuff and use a laptop and diagnostic tools. Trust me, I am no talented mechanic, just a determined plodder who used the internet and skilled friends to help me. If I can do it, you can.
:cup: :cheers:
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I love my 80 and for 20 years old its cost me nothing.
My mrs piece of Shit astra thats 1/4 the age got to a certain birthday and everything shat itself at once.
My 80 turns 25 next August,
1991 1htd gxl, She will become a 'Classic' I've owned her since 2005, she had 245 000kms on her and now she has 396500kms, just replaced the water pump and had the timing belt replace while at it.
She owes me 43k including purchase price, services and maintenance.
More than happy to spend another 20k on the 80 in the coming years. 8)
The minister for War & Finance has a 2002 Astra(Vauxhall) with less than 200 000k's on the clock and it seems every week we have our hand in our pockets to fix something. >:D >:D >:D >:D
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I hear you mate,buying an astra was the single stupidest thing shes ever done.
Its the biggest piece of Shit on wheels and we are now stuck with tbe bastard forever
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Same, not even game to give it to number one daughter when she gets her P'S
Only thing to do is drive it till it stops I guess :-[
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I hear you mate,buying an astra was the single stupidest thing shes ever done.
Its the biggest piece of Shit on wheels and we are now stuck with tbe bastard forever
Dont worry mate you wont be stuck with it forever. It will die soon enough!
My sons ex had one too and he was forever working on it.
Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk
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She had the very last year of Hyundai accent and she drove it up tbe back of a frontend loader driving up tourqey road with no lights on at 5am
Lucky she only wrote the car off not herself.
I told her to get another one but she chose tbis other lemon instead
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My preference on old technology is based purely on economics.
A new landcruiser in 2006 was $72800. The current value with 140 - 240 k on the clock is $36000 (Redbook price)
If I had the money then it would have cost me $36800 in devaluation for 9 years.
In 2006 I bought an 80 series for $18000 and 9 years later the current redbook value is $12000.
Depreciation on a new car would have cost me $36k while on an older car cost me $6k.
I have spent $8181 in servicing/tyres/batteries, $2895 in repairs and $13028 on accessories.
I have no doubt that the new tech would have given a better safety and comfort level, but old tech is all I can afford.
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Astras - it seems some people have bad runs with them and others good. They are prone to electrical gremlins, but if you know how to sort them the major mechanicals seem to be robust. And I like them to drive, for that era at least they were about the best in their class.
Maybe GM should have got Izuzu to make them, and they would have been as bulletproof as the Jackaroo (excluding the later diesel). Speaking of 80 series Toyotas, they seem pretty bulletproof. I have friends who reckon they were the best Toyota 4WD and who say that their 100 and 200 series were not as reliable or well made as the 80s they used to own.
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One thing I do like about the older vehicles; Almost everything was able to be serviced/overhauled and put back into service.
On modern vehicles, repair is by replacement. Good luck flushing water out a common rail diesel with a bit of kero/metho mix, re-priming with diesel and getting it going again. You are tied to the dealer network to keep the thing on the road and any repair like that is thousands.
With my old courier I could run it on 50:50 cooking oil and diesel mix, I knocked up a set of contacts for the starter solenoid from a bit of copper sheet and it cost me nothing... 100km/h up any sort of incline was impossible though, so there are certainly trade offs.
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Astras - it seems some people have bad runs with them and others good. They are prone to electrical gremlins, but if you know how to sort them the major mechanicals seem to be robust. And I like them to drive, for that era at least they were about the best in their class.
Maybe GM should have got Izuzu to make them, and they would have been as bulletproof as the Jackaroo (excluding the later diesel). Speaking of 80 series Toyotas, they seem pretty bulletproof. I have friends who reckon they were the best Toyota 4WD and who say that their 100 and 200 series were not as reliable or well made as the 80s they used to own.
Electrical gremlins are our issue.
Motors strong as an ox but the window regulators,shocks,alternator (twice)check engine light,ads light ,ignition ect all have random issues.
The indicator wont work then it does .
Annoying!
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Only thing to do is drive it till it stops I guess :-[
Next Tuesday???
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Its been broken i to 5 times ,they just make a mess but wont steel it.
Cant say i blame them.
Thieves are opertunistic wankers with an eye for quality
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The problems affect older more basic engines too, but a bit less so because of the lack of high pressure fuel systems, but the cost to repair is lower too because of fewer, cheaper parts.
The older systems "should" be more expensive to repair as they typically run injection pumps witch done both pumping up the pressure and distributing the fuel to each injector and a generally more complex pumps to deal with. Most common rail systems are now far simpler with a single high pressure fuel pump and the injectors do all the work individually for metering the fuel. In the real world the cost to repair doesn't always reflect that however..........
Your dead right that the older systems run less pressure and there for the internal pump clearances are larger than the higher pressure systems so they can get away with a bit more dirty fuel - water contamination would be similar across both and cause equal trouble.
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Lol, remind's me of the the old pulsar didn't want to make it home one night. Go to rescue it in the morning and some mofos have broken into it. Luckily one of the genius thought to use one of his old mans screw drivers with a name engraved in the handle. First rule of car steelin, what ever you take on car steelin, don't leave on passenger seat of car steelin ya dumb f'kn.
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Astras - it seems some people have bad runs with them and others good. They are prone to electrical gremlins, but if you know how to sort them the major mechanicals seem to be robust. And I like them to drive, for that era at least they were about the best in their class.
Maybe GM should have got Izuzu to make them, and they would have been as bulletproof as the Jackaroo (excluding the later diesel). Speaking of 80 series Toyotas, they seem pretty bulletproof. I have friends who reckon they were the best Toyota 4WD and who say that their 100 and 200 series were not as reliable or well made as the 80s they used to own.
Great to see another late petrol Jackaroo on the forum!
While the diesels are too high maintenance for me, given the kms I do, (400-500 / wheel commuting) I believe the problems are exaggerated. Provided the oil is changed on schedule and for the correct weight, all should be fine. Those who don't have problems, those who do run fine. And any that were abused have long since died. Having said that, I wouldn't swap my petrol / LPG Equipe in a hurry. Gradually turning it into the tow vehicle I want. Next mod will be a Harrop e-locker in the rear.
BTW, don't forget to list your Jack in the what do you drive? Thread poll!
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Subaru discussed petrol v diesel engines a little while ago:
http://www.subaru.com.au/car-advice/benefits-of-a-diesel-engine (http://www.subaru.com.au/car-advice/benefits-of-a-diesel-engine)
To sum up: if you do short city trips go with petrol, but if long highway drives go diesel.
So the obvious solution is a petrol town car & another diesel country one 8)
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Next Tuesday???
Smart Arse :angel:
It's Wednesday ;D
:cheers: