MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: MarkVS on July 05, 2015, 06:44:17 PM
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Can anyone, for the mechanicaly challenged, explain to me...
is there any real 4WD capability/strength/robustness difference between the 'workman Ute' style 4WD's (eg.. Triton, Isuzu D-Max, Mazda BT-50 etc etc)
and the more traditional 'sedan/SUV' perceived hard core 4WD (Landcruiser, Patrol, Pajero etc etc)
or are they very much as capable sas each other and more "styled" for differing markets ?
MarkVS
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Can anyone, for the mechanicaly challenged, explain to me...
is there any real 4WD capability/strength/robustness difference between the 'workman Ute' style 4WD's (eg.. Triton, Isuzu D-Max, Mazda BT-50 etc etc)
and the more traditional 'sedan/SUV' perceived hard core 4WD (Landcruiser, Patrol, Pajero etc etc)
or are they very much as capable sas each other and more "styled" for differing markets ?
MarkVS
your great wall ute isn't going to follow a patrol very far offroad.
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Up until the recent new generation of utes, the biggest difference between your working class utes and fourbie wagons was the rear suspension and brakes. Most utes have/had leaf sprung rears to carry loads and drum brakes to reduce some costs. Whereas the wagons tended to have coil sprung rears for passenger comfort and disc brakes. Engine tunes were probalbly a bit different with the utes more tuned towards low down grunt to haul loads. Lots of wagons and utes over the years have shared engines and gearboxes.
KB
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Mainly Leaf sprung Utes = greater payload than a wagon.
Also, they're generally lighter: land cruiser 200 series is about 800kg heavier than a hilux.
Load area is generally longer eg hilux dual cab is 1600mm Prado is 1200mm.
Leaf spung ute has load spread over two mounting points not one like a coil spring. Less need for connecting arms and rods with a leaf spring, so less to go wrong
Workman type Utes have less gizmos than the luxury SUVs. Therefore less to go wrong
They usually have drum brakes in the rear, again less complicated but fade quicker.
Generally get less rear suspension travel with a rear leaf spring ute than a coil spring wagon as they're set up for heavy load carrying.
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I think there is a difference and it started back with the 60 series Cruiser. This story gives you some indication of how the family 4x4 wagons developed. They are not as hard core as many seem to think nor were they intended to be. http://www.toyota-global.com/showroom/vehicle_heritage/landcruiser/collection/model_60_1.html (http://www.toyota-global.com/showroom/vehicle_heritage/landcruiser/collection/model_60_1.html)
The predecessor of the 60, the FJ55, looked more like a troop carrier with a different body. Both looked like Mack trucks underneath and both rode like one. There was a market for a more softer riding and more luxurious station wagon so Toyota steered the Landcruiser off in a slightly different direction and its competition did much the same
The utes seem to be somewhere in between. Toyota kept the Hilux in its rugged live front axle form while the others added a little more luxury with IFS but they were still used extensively for work all over the country. Eventually Toyota had to introduce IFS to the Hilux but they still retained the commercial 205 x 16 LT tyre on split rims. A 255 /70 x 15 was included for those who liked to run around cities thinking they were in a sports car.
I saw those split rims in use a few years ago at the Bourke and Wills dig tree site. The park ranged had very heavily constructed 7.00 x 16 cross ply tyres on his IFS single cab 4x4 Lux. They are the only tyre to use on a daily basis in those conditions. I don't think it is possible to get them on and off a one piece wheel which is why Toyota is still using them on Troopies and Cruiser utes today.
Today we have a wide variety of utes with all kinds of bells and whistles but you still see tradies and people on the land using them all over the country. In the real rough stuff with not too wide LT tyres, they are much more capable than the family wagons.
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New car to match the future new camper ;D
Mark
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New car to match the future new camper ;D
Mark
Maybe ;D ;D ;D ;D
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The main difference I have found moving from a full size 4WD to Australia's most powerful tradie dual cab ute is dust in the back tub. I'm running a full hard top (not canopy) and It has made me rethink the way I pack and carry gear. Outside of that, feel I have a 4WD that I can hang onto for years with a V6TD, as the latest offerings are all full of electric computer limp mode sensor issues.
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Over the years I’ve sat in the back of many dual cap utes and for short distances they are okay, but any person of average or above height will soon get uncomfortable after a couple of hours with the lack of leg room.
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The entry and departure angles on the utes are not as good. The towbar ads to the problem too. The tend to be a bit longer in the wheel base also so sometimes the ramp over angles can be not as good also. But, our DMax has been good enough for what we want to do which isn't anything too serious. On one trip the only issue we had over the Patrols and Cruisers was the entry/departure angle through a creek but the good myswag folks helped out with that!
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Appreciate the feedback everyone.
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Most of the modern crop of dual cab utes and family friendly wagons are fairly similar as far as capability offroad.
Mostly similar suspension setups, ground clearance, offroad angles and component strength all combine to determine offroad ability.
Obviously the Utes are designed to carry more of a load and oriented to more work duties.
Most the IFS vehicles are limited to their capability by design with many somewhat aided by electronic driving aids to overcome some their shortfalls.
And as has been already said, many of these vehicles are not as tough as manufacturers would like us to believe. And many of them are nowhere even near the tough mark.
There are not many "hardcore vehicles" available straight out of the factory and only a handful of others which can be easily modified to confidently be able to take constant offroad abuse and hold together.
But, generally most people don't need a vehicle that needs such strength, and everyday onroad comfort and towing performance is more of a priority hence the compromised design.
Oh and in my opinion the best vehicles for hardcore offroad use are: Patrol Wrangler, defender, 76 series cruisers.
They are a step ahead offroad.... But a step behind on road