Post by: Bird on January 27, 2015, 11:42:11 AM
Some interesting photos and couple of video clips...
https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/project/the-holocaust (https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/project/the-holocaust)
https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/browse/?projectId=the-holocaust (https://www.google.com/culturalinstitute/browse/?projectId=the-holocaust)
Post by: Bird on January 27, 2015, 11:57:34 AM
In the photograph Lyudmila Bezludova, b. 1940, transferred from Majdanek concentration camp to Auschwitz on 15 April 1944, and registered as prisoner no. 77263.
After liberation, she was transferred in a group Belarusian children to a care centre in Kraków, then to an orphanage in Harbutowice near Kraków and then to the Bucze Harcerskie preventive centre near Skoczów. There she was renamed Hanna Kosi?ska.
In 1963 she met up with her mother and siblings for the first time since they were separated in Majdanek.
At the time her family was living in Orsha, Belarus. Lyudmila, however, stayed in Poland.
The photograph was taken in 1948. Source: APMA-B
Post by: krisandkev on January 27, 2015, 02:06:08 PM
Post by: MarkVS on January 27, 2015, 02:31:06 PM
Post by: JCOJ on January 27, 2015, 02:35:51 PM
Post by: Bird on January 27, 2015, 02:37:48 PM
Quote from: MarkVS
Just impossible to comprehend....What he said...
I went through the whole presentation thing reading it and it just doesn't compute...
Post by: Bird on January 28, 2015, 08:40:13 AM
Quote
Auschwitz-Birkenau, Poland: "We do not want our past to be our children's future."
Choking with tears, standing before the 'death gate' of Birkenau, Auschwitz survivor Roman Kent forced himself to continue.
"That is the key to our resistance. We survivors do not want our past to be our children's future."
There was anger as well as grief and mourning at a freezing, snowing Auschwitz on Tuesday, as hundreds of survivors, and political and religious leaders gathered for the 70th anniversary of the liberation of the infamous death camp.
Ronald Lauder, President of the World Jewish Congress told the gathering that, after seeing anti-Semitic marches on the streets of Europe, of attacks on synagogues and Jewish businesses, of the siege at a kosher supermarket in Paris, "it looks more like 1933 than 2015".
A "new storm of anti-Semitism" was sweeping through Europe, he said. "An awful wave of hatred has descended on Earth once again."
Schools must teach tolerance, houses of worship must teach love and countries must make hate a crime, he demanded.
Otherwise "the tragedy of this terrible place will darken the world again."
http://www.theage.com.au/world/survivors-return-to-auschwitz-to-mark-the-70th-anniversary-of-the-liberation-of-the-infamous-nazi-death-camp-20150127-12zkh1.html (http://www.theage.com.au/world/survivors-return-to-auschwitz-to-mark-the-70th-anniversary-of-the-liberation-of-the-infamous-nazi-death-camp-20150127-12zkh1.html)
http://youtu.be/gD36k2zJcR0 (http://youtu.be/gD36k2zJcR0)
Post by: WilSurf on January 28, 2015, 09:51:54 AM
Post by: Bird on January 28, 2015, 10:56:17 AM
And still there are people who denying it ever happened.Yep, like the first comment on that video!
Post by: achjimmy on January 28, 2015, 11:16:56 AM
Post by: edz on January 28, 2015, 12:37:31 PM
4.000.000 gased and murdered at the camp [ As per popular History ] divided by ( 547 ) the amount of days the " extermination " program ran till liberation at Auschwitz = ( ) Bodies per day for cremation .
Initialy 2 x crematoria each with 15 ovens with a capacity of 1 x body ea, towards the end there was another two the same built .. = ( 60 ) but there is only 24 hrs in a day + allowing for body movement into the crematoria and cool down + cleaning + reheating times that count would be even lower.[ for the most part I havent included the extra 30 ovens ] .
Minimum time to " roughly " cremate in the best modern gas computerised oven for one body is 1 hr +
So 547 x 24 [ using a modern oven, At best you only get 1 body ea hour of the day per oven ] so total for the 547 days using modern eqiptment in the two crematoria would be = 13,128 bodies if they went flat out and were 100% efficient 100% of the time at this camp .Even doubling or quadrupling that figure it falls short, so where did the other millions of bodies go ? .... they wernt in the mass graves they found .or in the airial photos taken over it at the time ..
I'm not saying it didnt happen,It certainly did ... But the figures they quote dont add up for the given time period for me, Put aside emotion etc for the moment and do the math ... Some things dont add up to the way popular history has been told and have us beleive .
Edit : left some calcs out ..30 x 24 = 720 per day x 547 = 393,840..
Post by: krisandkev on January 28, 2015, 12:53:19 PM
Please lets not get all offended and rightchous .... Who's good at maths ...
4.000.000 gased and murdered at the camp [ As per popular History ] divided by ( 547 ) the amount of days the " extermination " program ran till liberation at Auschwitz = ( ) Bodies per day for cremation .
Initialy 2 x crematoria each with 15 ovens with a capacity of 1 x body ea, towards the end there was another two the same built .. = ( 60 ) but there is only 24 hrs in a day + allowing for body movement into the crematoria and cool down + cleaning + reheating times that count would be even lower.[ for the most part I havent included the extra 30 ovens ] .
Minimum time to " roughly " cremate in the best modern gas computerised oven for one body is 1 hr +
So 547 x 24 [ using a modern oven, At best you only get 1 body ea hour of the day per oven ] so total for the 547 days using modern eqiptment in the two crematoria would be = 13,128 bodies if they went flat out and were 100% efficient 100% of the time at this camp .Even doubling or quadrupling that figure it falls short, so where did the other millions of bodies go ? .... they wernt in the mass graves they found .or in the airial photos taken over it at the time ..
I'm not saying it didnt happen,It certainly did ... But the figures they quote dont add up for the given time period for me, Put aside emotion etc for the moment and do the math ... Some things dont add up to the way popular history has been told and have us beleive .
You need to go there and read and hear the history. They did not just burn them in the ovens; they did mass graves and used other means. Just go there and you will understand and just try not to cry at what happened. Stand in a room where there are piles of hair, another with piles of shoes including little children's shoes. You need to go and ask your question there! Kevin
Post by: WilSurf on January 28, 2015, 01:51:31 PM
Post by: kleyny on January 28, 2015, 03:40:59 PM
My grandfather ended up in 2 concentration camps 1 was Auschwitz and the other was Dachau.
When I was growing up his numbers where all but gone.
He did not talk about it much but when he did it was unbelievable and horrifying.
Neil
Post by: avotrol on January 28, 2015, 05:00:24 PM
During the war he and my grandmother helped many (allied pilots) and Jewish people escape and avoid the horrors of the camps like Auschwitz. Once, the Gestapo questioned him for three days but let him go as he gave them nothing. A quite man of small stature, he never talked about what happened in those times and just got on with it. Most of the details of what he did was found out by an aunty who went back to Holland and spoke to some underground survivors. Hopefully there are some families out there due to his efforts.
Remember the liberation (and horrors) of Auschwitz and all of the camps and may it never happen again.
Avo.
Post by: edz on January 28, 2015, 05:34:48 PM
For me there is a question mark over the time frame and the numbers is all .
Another Q that bugs me with is, why no one gets out of shape over the 20,000,000 + Ruskies and 30,000,000 + Chinese /Asian victims that went west .
Its not like reporters or Governments have ever embelished anything in war time to further a cause is it and we should believe everthing that they say without question ...
Anyway like it or lump it, thats our freedom to have an opinion right or wrong ...
Neil though not what your grandad went through, my dad and an uncle tasted the Japanese way of handling POW's in the Pacific .Yes unbeleivable and horrifying .
Amen to that Avo Amen ..
Post by: Bird on January 28, 2015, 05:44:41 PM
if it was 10,000 or 1,000,000 or 4,000,000..... it was the worst crime to do to innocent people... and why I'll never buy a VW :P
Post by: Terry W4 on January 28, 2015, 05:54:16 PM
As Ive said It Did happen and history shows that NO question about it ....
For me there is a question mark over the time frame and the numbers is all .
.....
Why FFS. I think others know more than you and the Nazis were meticulous with records.
Post by: Moggy on January 28, 2015, 05:58:33 PM
if it was 10,000 or 1,000,000 or 4,000,000..... it was the worst crime to do to innocent people... and why I'll never buy a VW
With that logic then i assume you wouldnt own a Japanese vehicle either
A friend of my fathers was in Changi & he hated the Japanese with a passion & wouldnt even have a jap colour tv
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Post by: WilSurf on January 28, 2015, 06:06:11 PM
Luckily my parents (born in 1933 and 1934) lived in rural Holland.
They were not effected like many others, but they managed to have a friendship with others from WW2 as these friends came from the big city Rotterdam ansd had to flee to the country.
Close to my parents in the Underground Village. I have been there a few times and it is amazing how people lived there in relative safety: http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.nunspeetvillage.nl/toer/9006.html&prev=search (http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.nunspeetvillage.nl/toer/9006.html&prev=search)
It is translated not sure if it is correct.
Post by: lino6 on January 28, 2015, 06:25:32 PM
My granny who is still kicking, born in 1913, tells some stories of the wars. She had relos who fought the Japanese. She used to say that they wouldn't talk much about what happened but had an intense hatred for them. Must have been horrific.
Post by: krisandkev on January 28, 2015, 07:56:46 PM
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv36483%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86633%3Bnu0mrj)
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv379%3A2%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3B78333%3Bnu0mrj)
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv3%3C832%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86933%3Bnu0mrj)
Just a small part of the shoes... I could not bring myself to photo the human hair....
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv3%3C955%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3B78433%3Bnu0mrj)
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv37459%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86833%3Bnu0mrj)
The nearby camp.
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv39948%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86733%3Bnu0mrj)
Sleeping bunks had to be shared.
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv38282%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3B78233%3Bnu0mrj)
Toilets
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv34858%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86%3A33%3Bnu0mrj)
Post by: Bird on January 28, 2015, 08:21:05 PM
We were there last July. Here are just a few photos. It was hard to even take them, just did not feel right. KevinGood photos..
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv36483%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86633%3Bnu0mrj)
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv379%3A2%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3B78333%3Bnu0mrj)
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv3%3C832%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86933%3Bnu0mrj)
Just a small part of the shoes... I could not bring myself to photo the human hair....
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv3%3C955%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3B78433%3Bnu0mrj)
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv37459%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86833%3Bnu0mrj)
The nearby camp.
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv39948%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86733%3Bnu0mrj)
Sleeping bunks had to be shared.
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv38282%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3B78233%3Bnu0mrj)
Toilets
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv34858%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D36%3C6%3B6%3C86%3A33%3Bnu0mrj)
Like others I would like to visit these places.. I feel it would be very eerie....
Post by: dales133 on January 28, 2015, 08:30:16 PM
More people killed in less time than in Europe.
Even more appalling is isreal is bombed refuge camps 24/7 for over a month last year.
If the Jews learned nothing about Compasion and miss treatment from recent history then I guess everyone has an excuse to punish the weak
Post by: Barry G on January 28, 2015, 08:40:52 PM
The Ottoman Empire (not Turkey) set out to exterminate the Armenian's.
When Hitler was challenged that he would not get away with his 'final solution' his retort was "But no-one remembers the Armenian's."
Have been other instances since, such as Rwanda.
I agree that the issue isn't the numbers, all instances are as bad as each other. What is so 'eerie' about the Nazi example iS the clinical, pseudo scientific 'efficiency' that they applied to mass murder. Complete with records.
Dales has also identified other examples.
If I were a Palestinian I would find it extremely difficult to not come to the conclusion that I had become a stateless person primarily because the rest of the world chose to use my homeland to attempt to expunge its guilt at having done nothing to stop Hitler's crimes against humanity towards European Jews.
Both World Wars have left a legacy of 'quick fixes' in the Middle East which may well yet be rued by all of us.
Post by: avotrol on January 30, 2015, 04:50:04 PM
Unfortunately, some (many) lessons from history have never been learned >:(! But that doesn't mean they should ever be forgotten!!! That's why its important to remember places like Auschwitz, those who suffered and those who did their best to do something about it.
:cheers: Avo
Post by: avotrol on January 30, 2015, 06:24:32 PM
Please keep it nice, it is horrible enough.
Luckily my parents (born in 1933 and 1934) lived in rural Holland.
They were not effected like many others, but they managed to have a friendship with others from WW2 as these friends came from the big city Rotterdam ansd had to flee to the country.
Close to my parents in the Underground Village. I have been there a few times and it is amazing how people lived there in relative safety: http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.nunspeetvillage.nl/toer/9006.html&prev=search (http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.nunspeetvillage.nl/toer/9006.html&prev=search)
It is translated not sure if it is correct.
Hi Wilsurf, I remember going to that forest and having a look at the Secret Village in the mid 1970's. It certainly would have been hard, but compared to the camps, it was paradise! The Dutch were very good at hiding people; by September, 1944 over 300 000 people of all sorts were in hiding, supported by some 200 000 carers.
Despite this, 105 000 Jews (75% of the Dutch Jewish population) were deported and murdered. After the first deportations, the Dutch people were so angry about it that in February, 1941, a general strike to protest the deportations was carried out by tens of thousands in all the cities. It was broken up when Nazi troops fired upon the strikers, killing many. Others were arrested and sent to the camps. Eventually, over 550 000 Dutchies would be deported, some to the camps, some as forced labour. The only other strike / protest was in Luxembourg in 1942, which also ended in bloodshed.
Unfortunately, living in a rural village was no guarantee of safety, as on 1-2 October, 1944, 602 males aged 18 -50 and numerous "oldies" (who were later let go) were taken from the village of Putten to work in Nazi factories. My great uncle was amongst them. Only 48 returned (he didn't). In addition, in the rounding up, 6 men and one women were shot and 100 houses burned down. This was reprisal for the resistance attacking a Wehrmacht (German army) car with four soldiers and killing one, on a nearby, out of town, bridge.
Not long after that, my mums village was also raided to take away 'workers'. Males of 14 and females of 15 were deemed to be old enough. My grandfather managed to escape. His neighbor didn't. The SS caught and shot him, in front of everyone.
Antisemitic, anti Asian, anti black, anti white and any other anti race behaviour should never be tolerated or promoted. It doesn't matter what race they are, if a person is a a..shole, their an a..shole, period >:(!
Again, let us try to apply the lessons history has taught us.
:cheers: Avo
Post by: avotrol on January 30, 2015, 06:26:06 PM
Luckily my parents (born in 1933 and 1934) lived in rural Holland.
They were not effected like many others, but they managed to have a friendship with others from WW2 as these friends came from the big city Rotterdam ansd had to flee to the country.
Close to my parents in the Underground Village. I have been there a few times and it is amazing how people lived there in relative safety: http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.nunspeetvillage.nl/toer/9006.html&prev=search (http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=nl&u=http://www.nunspeetvillage.nl/toer/9006.html&prev=search)
Hi Wilsurf, I remember going to that forest and having a look at the Secret Village in the mid 1970's. It certainly would have been hard, but compared to the camps, it was paradise! The Dutch were very good at hiding people; by September, 1944 over 300 000 people of all sorts were in hiding, supported by some 200 000 carers.
Despite this, 105 000 Jews (75% of the Dutch Jewish population) were deported and murdered. After the first deportations, the Dutch people were so angry about it that in February, 1941, a general strike to protest the deportations was carried out by tens of thousands in all the cities. It was broken up when Nazi troops fired upon the strikers, killing many. Others were arrested and sent to the camps. Eventually, over 550 000 Dutchies would be deported, some to the camps, some as forced labour. The only other strike / protest was in Luxembourg in 1942, which also ended in bloodshed.
Unfortunately, living in a rural village was no guarantee of safety, as on 1-2 October, 1944, 602 males aged 18 -50 and numerous "oldies" (who were later let go) were taken from the village of Putten to work in Nazi factories. My great uncle was amongst them. Only 48 returned (he didn't). In addition, in the rounding up, 6 men and one women were shot and 100 houses burned down. This was reprisal for the resistance attacking a Wehrmacht (German army) car with four soldiers and killing one, on a nearby, out of town, bridge.
Not long after that, my mums village was also raided to take away 'workers'. Males of 14 and females of 15 were deemed to be old enough. My grandfather managed to escape. His neighbor didn't. The SS caught and shot him, in front of everyone.
Antisemitic, anti Asian, anti black, anti white and any other anti race behaviour should never be tolerated or promoted. It doesn't matter what race they are, if a person is a a..shole, their an a..shole, period >:(!
Again, let us try to apply the lessons history has taught us.
:cheers: Avo
Post by: avotrol on January 30, 2015, 06:28:30 PM
:cheers: Avo