MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: D4D on December 23, 2014, 07:03:09 AM
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I was reading the news re finding the father and sons in outback QLD and thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on bush survival.
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/hero-farmer-tom-wagner-just-had-to-find-missing-boys-and-father-in-outback-queensland/story-fnixwvgh-1227164576762 (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/hero-farmer-tom-wagner-just-had-to-find-missing-boys-and-father-in-outback-queensland/story-fnixwvgh-1227164576762)
Mr van Lonkhuyzen used a large, plastic bowl to capture rainwater, a vital instrument in keeping him and his sons, Ethan, 7, and Timothy, 5, alive.
“He actually set out some hi-viz towels, spread them out on the ground around vehicle so it could much more visible in case an air search took place,” South West District Acting Superintendent Mick Bianci said.
“He lit a fire to put up some smoke to attract anyone who was out there and saw the smoke and he sent out SOSs on the horn of his vehicle, but of course it’s remote and isolated. There was no one to hear it.”
Much like an emergency grab bag in a boat, what are the vital essentials when lost/trapped/broken down/bogged/whatever reason in the bush?
- Ability to make fire
- Ability to collect water
- Ability to attract attention
- Ability to keep dry/warm/cool/shade
- Ability to call in the emergency
- Ability to identify location to search parties
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Top idea..
1 - Tell people of your plans.. Dates of departure and arrival
2 - if going remote, tell the local police where your heading and what direction, tracks and a basic plan.. Save them searching 10000klms for you if something goes wrong...
3 - Be prepared with communications - HF/Sat Phone - yes very expensive, but whats your family worth?
4 - Water.
5 - First aid kit and training.. no point having a $1000 first aid kit and nobody can use it.
Read this
http://www.vks737.on.net/pdfs/survival.pdf (http://www.vks737.on.net/pdfs/survival.pdf) 120 pages of life saving info....
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Epirb.
Wouldn't have had to go through that ordeal at all.
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He did well - but a good reminder to do an equipment check before heading out. His mic was broken on the UHF:
"Along with the plastic bowl, Mr van Lonkhuyzen used tools at his disposal to his advantage, including the car horn, hi-visibility material and a two-way radio. Unfortunately, the radio’s microphone was broken."
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Epirb.
Wouldn't have had to go through that ordeal at all.
I thought there was some requirement for the event to be life threating before you can fire an EPIRB.
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It's interesting, people see EPIRBs and sat phones as expensive, and as such are often not part of the standard kit.
However lift kits, winches, mud tyres, fancy drawer systems, dual batteries, fridges, etc are all bolted on to just about every 4wd you see in th bush.
My Inmarsat wasn't that expensive after rebate.
Not that I'm suggesting that call for help should be step one. But I do see them as a must for remote travel.
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Bush survival skills were far more prevalent during the 70's. The introduction and subsequent popularity of Brazilian waxing techniques has made access and navigation far easier for todays intrepid explorers.
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I thought there was some requirement for the event to be life threating before you can fire an EPIRB.
From AMSA:
http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/usage.html (http://beacons.amsa.gov.au/usage.html)
"Distress beacons should only be used when there is a threat of grave and imminent danger. In the event of an emergency, communication should first be attempted with others close by using radios, phones and other signalling devices. Mobile phones can be used but should not be relied upon as they can be out of range, have low batteries or become water-damaged."
Stranded and lost in the bush, running out of water and food represents grave and imminent danger and is a life threatening situation to me personally.
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I thought there was some requirement for the event to be life threating before you can fire an EPIRB.
Well this incident was I suppose.
But generally there are no rules when it comes to setting off your PLB - if you're lost, stuck or in need of help you use it.
Edit - ok it says grave and Iminent danger. But not life threatening
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We hired a Sat phone from a fellow swagger for our trip this year,
didn't need to use it BUT we had it just in case of the unthinkable.
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Top idea..
Read this
http://www.vks737.on.net/pdfs/survival.pdf (http://www.vks737.on.net/pdfs/survival.pdf)
x2
Have a flip through it so you know what's in it, then maybe keep a copy on your smart phone.
One scenario that needs to be considered is a vehicle fire; how easy is it to grab the essentials in a hurry?
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Ummm just looking at the photos a shovel and a set of max trax may have avoided some pain
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Epirb.
Wouldn't have had to go through that ordeal at all.
Cheap insurance I reckon.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d152/Boggopics/EPIRB251014.png)
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Hi All,
It’s simple, carry an EPIRB and use it if you’re in trouble, you can sort out any problems latter, it’s important to get help early as every hour wasted is one hour closer to death.
I carry one EPIRB in my vehicle, one in the camper or back pack plus I also carry first aid kits in vehicle and camper. My wife and I are also first aid trained.
I have now removed the above line removed in the interest of safety
Regards, Chris.
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Hi All,
It’s simple, carry an EPIRB and use it if you’re in trouble, you can sort out any problems latter, it’s important to get help early as every hour wasted is one hour closer to death.
I carry one EPIRB in my vehicle, one in the camper or back pack plus I also carry first aid kits in vehicle and camper. My wife and I are also first aid trained.
Also mobile phone users in emergency’s can dial 112 from any location anywhere in Australia or the world for that matter providing you have clear access to the sky. 112 number dialled will uplink into global communication satellites and connect to an emergency service operator.
Regards, Chris.
So are you saying any mobile phone can be used as a sat phone in an emergency ? I have never heard of that and as far as 112 goes i was under the impression that was only if you werent using your own carrier or had no credit - happy to be proven wrong but that was my understanding.
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Sorry but that is incorrect as per the wiki -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_%28emergency_telephone_number%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_%28emergency_telephone_number%29)
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if you're going out in these places, really the small investment in a PLB (the correct land based EPIRB)... is a must.
http://www.handheldgps.com.au/Emergency%20_Beacons_EPIRBS_Brisbane.htm (http://www.handheldgps.com.au/Emergency%20_Beacons_EPIRBS_Brisbane.htm)
We carry one with us, it's registered and has emergency numbers etc and if they can't contact us on mobile or sat they dispatch emergency services. They claim max about 4 hours anywhere in AU...
I picked up ours at a show for 299 and its worth every cent knowing it lasts for 7 years (battery life) and can be flicked on for emergency help..
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Hi All,
It’s simple, carry an EPIRB and use it if you’re in trouble, you can sort out any problems latter, it’s important to get help early as every hour wasted is one hour closer to death.
I carry one EPIRB in my vehicle, one in the camper or back pack plus I also carry first aid kits in vehicle and camper. My wife and I are also first aid trained.
Also mobile phone users in emergency’s can dial 112 from any location anywhere in Australia or the world for that matter providing you have clear access to the sky. 112 number dialled will uplink into global communication satellites and connect to an emergency service operator.
Regards, Chris.
No.
112 will access another carrier (Telstra/Optus/Vodaphone) if you're out of range of yours but you still need to be within someone's cellular network. Overseas, 112 will work in countries with GSM systems, which is not all of them.
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Sorry but that is incorrect as per the wiki -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_%28emergency_telephone_number%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/112_%28emergency_telephone_number%29)
Where is he wrong. ?
It works I know. I have personally done it. Unfortunately thou I was to late and the people past away.
Its not 100% cover thou.you still need to be range of a satellite.
Which will only be known once you try. But can be used when you have no phone range regardless of your phone carrier or if you have credit.
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112 does not call a satellite. You have to be in range of a cell network. No cell coverage, no signal:
http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/calling-the-emergency-call-service-from-a-mobile-phone--faqs (http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/calling-the-emergency-call-service-from-a-mobile-phone--faqs)
Can I call 112 from a mobile phone?
Yes, 112 is a secondary emergency number that can be dialled from mobile phones in Australia.
Special capabilities, including roaming, once only existed when dialling 112, however mobile phones manufactured since January 2002 also provide these capabilities when dialling Triple Zero (000) to access the emergency call service. It is important to realise that if there is no mobile coverage on any network, you will not be able to reach the emergency call service via a mobile phone, regardless of which number you dialled.
Will a 112 call be carried by satellite if there is no mobile coverage?
No. Satellite phones use a different technology and your mobile phone will not be able to access a satellite network.
If there is no mobile coverage, you will not be able to reach the Emergency Call Service via a mobile phone.
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Where is he wrong? From beginning to end.
Refer to the government authority's site; a direct quote:-
Will a 112 call be carried by satellite if there is no mobile coverage?
No. Satellite phones use a different technology and your mobile phone will not be able to access a satellite network.
If there is no mobile coverage, you will not be able to reach the Emergency Call Service via a mobile phone.
taken from
http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/calling-the-emergency-call-service-from-a-mobile-phone--faqs (http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/calling-the-emergency-call-service-from-a-mobile-phone--faqs)
Chris J's advice is bad and dangerous. (sorry to be blunt). callmejoe, you must have been within another carrier's GSM network.
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By the way, phones translate "000" to "112". I have dialled 000 and when I checked my bill at the end of the month it was listed as 112.
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x2
Have a flip through it so you know what's in it, then maybe keep a copy on your smart phone.
One scenario that needs to be considered is a vehicle fire; how easy is it to grab the essentials in a hurry?
This survival guide, you can get from the WA Cops. I managed to get 30-40 copies of it for my 4wd club at the time by just contacting them, and proving it was for a club...
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.
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hopefully a caped crusader will come along and tidy this up and keep it relevant :)
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Where is he wrong? From beginning to end.
Refer to the government authority's site; a direct quote:-
Will a 112 call be carried by satellite if there is no mobile coverage?
No. Satellite phones use a different technology and your mobile phone will not be able to access a satellite network.
If there is no mobile coverage, you will not be able to reach the Emergency Call Service via a mobile phone.
taken from
http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/calling-the-emergency-call-service-from-a-mobile-phone--faqs (http://www.acma.gov.au/theACMA/calling-the-emergency-call-service-from-a-mobile-phone--faqs)
Chris J's advice is bad and dangerous. (sorry to be blunt). callmejoe, you must have been within another carrier's GSM network.
Across the nullabor 8 years ago NO ONE had coverage. I have been in telstra for over 20 years due to them having the best coverage. Optus voda phone where not even our of cities back then.
We rang 000 which DID NOT WORK. 112 DID it put us through to a emergency service. So I'm pretty sure it does work.
Joe
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So if you are making up an emergency kit for this type of travel what options could/should he have had on board as far as food it said they were down to their last of mouldy bread but is there a good option to have packed that lasts a long time.
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Across the nullabor 8 years ago NO ONE had coverage. I have been in telstra for over 20 years due to them having the best coverage. Optus voda phone where not even our of cities back then.
We rang 000 which DID NOT WORK. 112 DID it put us through to a emergency service. So I'm pretty sure it does work.
Joe
Whether 000 works or not depends on your GSM phone's programming. I've heard that some even convert 911 into 112.
Whoever you were talking to on the Nullarbor, it wasn't a satellite.
The Australian Communications and Media Authority's advice is clear on this. The link has already been posted.
I have also been with Telstra mobile for over 20 years. I often find myself in the high country without a signal and my friends with Optus phones are able to dial out.
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Also depends on the phone In question for example where I was working in the Pilbra my Iphone would have no signal but my work blackberry would have 3 bars and I could happily talk and email away
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If caught out above all Dont panic and think out each action before doing it, Keep positive ... Conserve water and foods to half rations or less to extend them, Signal fires are only good at night and no wind short ranges during the day ... Use the vehicles mirror to reflect the sun and aim at aircraft, can be seen they say up to 80 klicks away in clear conditions .. limit movement as much as possible to dawn dusk or night when its cooler, ..
Improvise a kite from the first aid kit space blanket if able to spare it, as a locator beacon if conditions are right .
Dont waste the trucks systems abillity [ fuel / battery etc ] to get you out at a later time .
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I thought there was some requirement for the event to be life threating before you can fire an EPIRB.
Geez, sounds like potentially life threatening to me!
A good result in the end but preparation is the obvious key.
Cheers,
Disco teddy.
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We were advised by the government on the following guidelines.
The service as such is "FREE" and is provided by the Australian Government. However if you are deemed to have "abused" the service then you will be charged the appropriate costs.
So they explained it quite simple. If you are in a life threatening situation in which you need immediate assistance and are unable to get it from somewhere close by then that is an emergency. Anything else and you may be charged for recovery.
We have a simple scenario for the kids (which have both been taught how to use it). If we say had a vehicle rollover and mum and dad where badly hurt then it is ok to turn on.
I suppose the problem is what do people call life threatening. Unfortunately i never got anything from them about what is life threatening and what is not, just that if they "deemed" it not life threatening, don't be too surprised to be getting a bill.
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One thing to remember with an EPIRB is that if you do get lumbered with the costs is that you might have to pay for a light plane to fly overhead, not a major search and rescue event involving dozens of emergency service people and megabucks.
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I work for one of those carriers and I can assure you the use of your mobile for satellite access in the event of no coverage is completely wrong. As Stated above it only works when you are in range of another gsm carrier tower. All mobiles sold in Australia in the last 12 years or so natively support 000, you do not need to dial 112 to access the 000 network operators.
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And remember you can drink your own pee if you need to.
(http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/100/832/Image1.png)
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Bush survival skills were far more prevalent during the 70's. The introduction and subsequent popularity of Brazilian waxing techniques has made access and navigation far easier for todays intrepid explorers.
hehehe, funny stuff!! ;D
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These are a little more interactive than an EPIRB but cheaper than a sat phone.
http://www.alwaysinreach.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&catid=10?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=SpotSatSleeve (http://www.alwaysinreach.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=65&catid=10?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=SpotSatSleeve)
http://au.findmespot.com/en/ (http://au.findmespot.com/en/)
although a second hand sat phone is comparable in price and with Iridium/Telstra it can be zero cost until you need to make a call.
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I work in remote exploration for junior companies that don't have access to mega bucks - regardless of where we are travelling we have controls in place for a variety of unplanned events that are relatively affordable to the mum & dad (average)traveller 1. We always notify of route and destination eta ( ok we have an appointed person who approves all journeys and knows the routes/road&track conditions from regular updates) which also records rescue and recovery details; 2. SPOT trackers - these are cheap, track your progress, can have a customized message, can provide notification that you're ok, need assistance (people you select) or send a sos to the authorities 3. Training - we keep it simple; stick to the travel plan, have the grab bag stocked for worst case scenario, know how to use comms & first aid equipment, never leave the immediate vicinity of the vehicle and ask yourself if you need to go there, if your vehicle is capable and if you have the ability to recovery from any presenting situation - a no to any of these questions means a no to the trip; 4. Satellite phone - okay these can cost, apart from training exercises I haven't used mine in a few years, its just a backup incase the primary form of comms fails or I need to say more than the SPOT is programmed for; 5. Well serviced and maintained vehicle's that always have water available.
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I was reading the news re finding the father and sons in outback QLD and thought it would be a good idea to start a thread on bush survival.
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/hero-farmer-tom-wagner-just-had-to-find-missing-boys-and-father-in-outback-queensland/story-fnixwvgh-1227164576762 (http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/hero-farmer-tom-wagner-just-had-to-find-missing-boys-and-father-in-outback-queensland/story-fnixwvgh-1227164576762)
Mr van Lonkhuyzen used a large, plastic bowl to capture rainwater, a vital instrument in keeping him and his sons, Ethan, 7, and Timothy, 5, alive.
“He actually set out some hi-viz towels, spread them out on the ground around vehicle so it could much more visible in case an air search took place,” South West District Acting Superintendent Mick Bianci said.
“He lit a fire to put up some smoke to attract anyone who was out there and saw the smoke and he sent out SOSs on the horn of his vehicle, but of course it’s remote and isolated. There was no one to hear it.”
Much like an emergency grab bag in a boat, what are the vital essentials when lost/trapped/broken down/bogged/whatever reason in the bush?
- Ability to make fire
- Ability to collect water
- Ability to attract attention
- Ability to keep dry/warm/cool/shade
- Ability to call in the emergency
- Ability to identify location to search parties
Getting back on Topic - stumbled across these two lists which contain pretty much the elements to achieve the above - Survival kit is 24 hrs, BOB is a 'vehicle' survival kit for 72 hours
http://www.heimanhabitat.com.au/pdf/PERSONAL-SURVIVAL-KIT.pdf (http://www.heimanhabitat.com.au/pdf/PERSONAL-SURVIVAL-KIT.pdf)
http://www.heimanhabitat.com.au/pdf/Bug-Out-Bag.pdf (http://www.heimanhabitat.com.au/pdf/Bug-Out-Bag.pdf)