MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: terravista on September 18, 2014, 12:25:48 PM
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We had 3kW of solar panels put on the roof hooked up to a 5kW box.
The spiel from the sub-continent sales person said that during the day you should use any electrical items like washing machines, dishwashers fridges etc as they use the solar power first and anything not used is fed back into the grid.
Our power bill still shows pretty much the same peak and off peak usage we had before the solar was installed, the only difference is a staggering $58 discount which means the panels will pay for themselves in 18 years or so (woo hoo).
I would have thought that if the solar unit powered the running white goods first, the peak meter would show less power used.
Being far from knowlegeable in solar systems this may well be correct but seems to be different to what the salesman was saying, and we all know sales people are honest.
Do any swaggers out there know whether the grid power still powers these daytime items or should the peak meter show a reduction in usage as the solar system generates power for them?
Thanks
Ian
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Hi Ian
I am led to believe whatever you produce goes directly into the grid and you buy back whatever you use, no matter what time of day it is. Same as normal, the costs will vary depending on the time of day (onpeak/offpeak).
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Same as with our Solar set up, but we have a 5kw unit and there is significant difference with our bill, it used to be around $750 @ qtr and now we may get around $150 credit per qtr, you should also be watching your meter or inverter to make sure its working properly, ours faulted due to faulty installation and we never knew for a month or 2 till we got our next bill and saw the increase $$ again
but i am sure there are members here that are more familiar with the exact houshold solar setups than i am.
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The spiel from the sub-continent sales person said that during the day you should use any electrical items like washing machines, dishwashers fridges etc as they use the solar power first and anything not used is fed back into the grid.
I too am led to believe this is correct.
This web page shows how it is supposed to work (no affiliation, page chosen at random)
https://www.eurosolar.com.au/how-solar-system-works (https://www.eurosolar.com.au/how-solar-system-works)
Silly question - Has your meter been updated and has your solar system been connected to the Grid?
I suggest you contact your solar company and have them come out and check the system out.
Richard
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If you're on the FIT scheme like us where you get more for feeding into the grid than you pay using the grid then clearly it pays to do the laundry, dishwashing and run the aircon at night to maximise feed-in to the grid. If you're on 1 for 1 then it won't matter when you consume but without generous FIT the payback is much longer as you're aware. Smart meters whereby night rates (excluding off-peak HW) are reduced might change that equation but commercial/industrial users are the predominant installers of solar now ex FIT schemes as they generally pay higher rates than residential and barely use power at night when they've knocked off. None of us can avoid seasonal peak rates however.
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Ours is set up to export everything as we got the super rate (60c) when it was on offer (NSW). At 60c our 1.5kW setup generates enough income we haven't paid for electricity since the install. Now the rates for export are so low (20c?) it should be set up to use the solar first, then import what you don't generate, or export what you don't use.
Sounds like yours is set up the wrong way.
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This web page shows how it is supposed to work (no affiliation, page chosen at random)
https://www.eurosolar.com.au/how-solar-system-works (https://www.eurosolar.com.au/how-solar-system-works)
It may be a coincidence but that company has the same name as our suppliers.
When the system was first installed they stuffed something up and we lost 3 months worth of solar rebates completely so maybe it still is not correct. Now we at least are receiving some rebate but certainly not enough to justify the expense.
We are paying a peak rate of roughly 42 cents/kW but only get back 12 cents/kW, so any solar we can use first is a bonus.
Thanks
Ian
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A 3kW setup should give you heaps of power available in the daytime. If you do most of your washing, vacuuming etc while the sun is shining then at the very least your power consumption should have dropped. Get your system checked, maybe by an independent sparky.
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You're not allowed to export 100% of what your solar provides (unless your house is using 0 watts). Whatever your house is using is sourced from the solar panels first. Of course if you have a very high FIT it makes sense to *minimise* daily usage and export whatever you can .... at least if making money is your primary goal.
If you have a (now-standard) low FIT of 8-16c/kWh then you should try to use all the solar power you can as this is saving you 30-40c/kWh. So yes, run dishwashers, washing machines etc during the day. But be careful not to run them all at once though as you'll end up only powering half of them with solar and have to pay for the rest of the power you use. Better to stagger them, and also use them when the sun is out if possible.
There's a whirlpool forum called Green Tech http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143 (http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143) which covers all these sort of questions all the time.
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The solar unit feeds back into the consumer side of the switch board.
Therefore any power your panels produce is used by the household
appliances first, any excess is feedback to the grid.
Your meter will show the power that is consumed from the grid and
the excess you generated that was exported.
Keep in mind the panels will only produce their rated power in bright sunshine.
If your consumption hasn't dropped have you installed something new that may be
consuming more power?
Some suppliers allow you to log in a view your usage, if yours does it is worth registering
for access.
As pointed out above, if your getting a high feed in tariff, then your better off not using
power during the day and doing washing etc during off peak times. If your on a low feed
in then use what you can during the day but try and keep it below the level the panels are
producing to avoid importing power at peak rates.
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The solar unit feeds back into the consumer side of the switch board.
Therefore any power your panels produce is used by the household
appliances first, any excess is feedback to the grid.
Your meter will show the power that is consumed from the grid and
the excess you generated that was exported.
Keep in mind the panels will only produce their rated power in bright sunshine.
If your consumption hasn't dropped have you installed something new that may be
consuming more power?
Some suppliers allow you to log in a view your usage, if yours does it is worth registering
for access.
As pointed out above, if your getting a high feed in tariff, then your better off not using
power during the day and doing washing etc during off peak times. If your on a low feed
in then use what you can during the day but try and keep it below the level the panels are
producing to avoid importing power at peak rates.
Thanks for the response.
There does not seem to be a corresponding drop in the peak meter reading that would account for the solar that has been generated. I would have thought if some solar generated power was used and some was sent back to the grid, there should be a drop in the peak meter reading, but there isn't.
The Previous quarter without the solar connected properly used 900 kW of peak power and 300kW of off peak power, and the current quarter had pretty much the same numbers although there was around 400kw returned to the grid.
Cheers
Ian
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As has been said, if you are receiving a high feed in tariff then try not to use any power during the day to get paid for all of your feed in at a high rate, then use your appliances at night, essentially buying back the power at a lower price.
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Thanks for the response.
There does not seem to be a corresponding drop in the peak meter reading that would account for the solar that has been generated. I would have thought if some solar generated power was used and some was sent back to the grid, there should be a drop in the peak meter reading, but there isn't.
The Previous quarter without the solar connected properly used 900 kW of peak power and 300kW of off peak power, and the current quarter had pretty much the same numbers although there was around 400kw returned to the grid.
Cheers
Ian
The amount your meter shows as imported should have reduced considerably with
the installation of your system. The fact that you returned 400kW to the grid indicates
that your system is generating more than your using at times.
I'm not sure what you mean by "without the solar connected properly" I'm assuming
the system has been installed by a licensed contractor?
My 3kW system in Melbourne averaged 288kWh last month, I exported 101kWh
so my imported power would have been 187kWh less, or around 6kWh less a day,
as shown on the meter, yours should be doing a lot better than that.
Can only suggest you look at the appliances you have running and work out their consumption
and see if what your meter is showing seems reasonable.
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Need more info...
Location
Deal your on with relation to FIT amount
date the system was activated.
Who your elec account is with.
then at least the answerers can be specific at present they are all general responses
Jet ;D ;D
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Are you sure that you are not using now more power because "it is free"?
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Need more info...
Location
Deal your on with relation to FIT amount
date the system was activated.
Who your elec account is with.
then at least the answerers can be specific at present they are all general responses
Jet ;D ;D
Thanks
House is in Kooralbyn 22km west of South West of Beaudesert.
Feed in tarrif is 12c/kW
System was supposedly activated back in April, but they screwed up and properly activated in mid June.
Power is through Power Direct.
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Are you sure that you are not using now more power because "it is free"?
I wish it was that simple, but the house has one resident (my daughter) and I am sure the washing machine, vacuum, stove and everything else has not had an increase in use.
Cheers
ian
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Thanks for the response.
There does not seem to be a corresponding drop in the peak meter reading that would account for the solar that has been generated. I would have thought if some solar generated power was used and some was sent back to the grid, there should be a drop in the peak meter reading, but there isn't.
The Previous quarter without the solar connected properly used 900 kW of peak power and 300kW of off peak power, and the current quarter had pretty much the same numbers although there was around 400kw returned to the grid.
Cheers
Ian
900Kw in 90 days is a very very low peak power usage figure..I do not know many houses running on 10Kw per day add the 300 off peak = 13.3Kw per 24 hrs thats awesome on its own.
So 1 occupant that explains the 13.3 Kw .. we need to establish the time that your daughter uses power does she work all day ?
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Funny you should say that, my friend was telling me about his neighbor, they were
complaining about a large increase in their power bill, they indicated the only one there
during the day was the border. Turned out the border was having his girlfriend over
during the day and there was a lot of naked goings on requiring the heating to be
turned up!
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Funny you should say that, my friend was telling me about his neighbor, they were
complaining about a large increase in their power bill, they indicated the only there
during the day was the border. Turned out the border was having his girlfriend over
during the day and there was a lot of naked goings on requiring the heating to be
turned up!
Lucky fella ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I wish solar increased my goings on LOL :D :D
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My peak usage is around 10kWh, my off peak about the same, my supplier
in their usage tables indicates that I'm using quite a bit more than comparable
houses in my area!
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I have just dropped to a 6c feed in tarif :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(.
I exported 1501 to the grid last quarter
1501 kWh @ 52c = $780.52
1501kWh @ 44c = $660.44
1501 kWh @ 14c = $210.14
1501 kWh @ 6c = $90.06
My total bill here at home for the quarter is $210.00 so I have gone from zero bill to $210. these figures show that all the govt needed to do was maintain a FIT at 50% of the nominal tariff rate and houses could be power neutral.
even at 6c FIT I am saving myself $500 a bill so 2K per year , first 12mths save 3K . about a 4 year payback. But the saving is not in what I sell to the grid it is in what i don't IMPORT / BUY to my house from the grid. not buying is 5 X better than selling.
more than ever solar systems need to be designed and installed properly the fly by knight people and the big corpartes who knew nothing of solar before the rebates are now being shown as very poor choices for solar as that top figure $780.52 means the system could have been only 75% efficent and I would never have noticed. With diminished FIT the system must be efficient and tailored to the specific family situation.
Split arrays are now the norm and the arrays being sighted to correspond with peak power times of the day. if your only getting 6c a kWh then selling is worthless it is worth 5 X more for you to use that kWh in the home. so a lower overall system generation may in fact save you money if everything generated is being used thus saving you 30c for the unit of power.
A crude example all day whilst your at work and kids at school the panels are selling your power unit for 6c to the power company lets say it generates 12kWh and the installer has sighted it for MAX generation and between 10am - 3pm it is well sighted and pumping ot 12kWh to the grid. then the kids get home and the power usage ramps up at the same time the solar generation is ramping down.
So i would rather sight my panels to cover the usage pattern i have n/e and W n/w this way my generation peaks match my household usage peaks and I am not buing power units. That is my specific situation each family will have different patterns.
IMHO total system generation is no longer as important as matching generation to usage time. This is what will save you money. no one has a system that exports 5 x what they use. residential that is.
Confused yet ;D ;D ;D
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so how are you guys accurately determining what your usage patterns are like, by day, week, month, etc...?
do you have specific meters for this? are they available to buy?
or are you going on just your power bill info?
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so how are you guys accurately determining what your usage patterns are like, by day, week, month, etc...?
do you have specific meters for this? are they available to buy?
or are you going on just your power bill info?
Obv there are meters and such that you can buy that will display what is being drawn from the grid. i was a little more rudimentary and just decided to take note of when and how we used our power.
i fopund that 6.30am - 8.30am was a heavy period for us.
J ;D
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We have a 3kw system. Before solar our avg bill was $900 per qtr. We only get a 6c per kw feed in tariff. My wife is home most days with the kids and we try to use appliances during the day. Since installed our bills are $500-600 with a rebate of about $60 dollars or so. We will pay for the system in 3 1/2 years
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We have a 3kw system. Before solar our avg bill was $900 per qtr. We only get a 6c per kw feed in tariff. My wife is home most days with the kids and we try to use appliances during the day. Since installed our bills are $500-600 with a rebate of about $60 dollars or so. We will pay for the system in 3 1/2 years
That system is working very well mate at about 18-20kWh per day off a 3Kw system is the high end of performance ;D ;D ;D I actually believe that 3kW systems are the go under the current set up. I opted for 6 as the first year on 14c FIT and high exports recouped a lot of the system cost from the increase in size.
3-4 year paybacks are still achievable in the current situation. But alot more work must be done now to get a good result.
I am helped by having this to further tailor my usage to suit the outputs ..this changes through the month but is today snap shot
http://pvoutput.org/analyse.jsp?id=22923&sid=20811&dt=20140918 (http://pvoutput.org/analyse.jsp?id=22923&sid=20811&dt=20140918)
;D
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That system is working very well mate at about 18-20kWh per day off a 3Kw system is the high end of performance ;D ;D ;D
I am helped by having this to further tailor my usage to suit the outputs ..this changes through the month but is today snap shot
http://pvoutput.org/analyse.jsp?id=22923&sid=20811&dt=20140918 (http://pvoutput.org/analyse.jsp?id=22923&sid=20811&dt=20140918)
;D
can you provide some more info about your link? is there a device attached to your solar equipment?
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can you provide some more info about your link? is there a device attached to your solar equipment?
Yes mate, it is a device inside my inverter that sends info to Pv output by ethernet over power cable from memory , I have a small power thing that is plugged into a power point and the lead then plugs into the back of my home modem, I can get all sorts of data about my system via my home pc /iphone/ipad or I can log in anywhere and see the info.
I think its great. here a link to my whole thing for you. Positronics who installed most of my system took care of the lot for me.
http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=22923&sid=20811 (http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=22923&sid=20811)
jet ;D
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Yes mate, it is a device inside my inverter that sends info to Pv output by ethernet over power cable from memory , I have a small power thing that is plugged into a power point and the lead then plugs into the back of my home modem, I can get all sorts of data about my system via my home pc /iphone/ipad or I can log in anywhere and see the info.
I think its great. here a link to my whole thing for you. Positronics who installed most of my system took care of the lot for me.
http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=22923&sid=20811 (http://pvoutput.org/list.jsp?id=22923&sid=20811)
jet ;D
cool, thanks...
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I put in a 3kw system 3yrs ago with PFIT of 60c pay back . We are with Energy Australia and on a two tier tariff 33 c peak and 17 off peak which is from 11 pm to 7am with off peak on weekends and public holidays . I have not paid a gas or elect bill since I put it in , we are in Vic and the PFIT goes until 2124
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I put in a 3kw system 3yrs ago with PFIT of 60c pay back . We are with Energy Australia and on a two tier tariff 33 c peak and 17 off peak which is from 11 pm to 7am with off peak on weekends and public holidays . I have not paid a gas or elect bill since I put it in , we are in Vic and the PFIT goes until 2124
No one likes a gloater ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
that awesome mate, and I certainly would never begrudge the people who have the benefit of stupid and moronic govt ministers.
Solar industry, Elec retailers and govt ministers sit down to nut out a solar rebate scheme ...I'll let you guess who the morons were.
Its a bloody shame as for under $5k every house in Australia could be power neutral if the govt was serious about renewable energy.
FIT set nationally at 50% of the tariff and all would have been good.
Oh well still a good option for people . ;D ;D ;D
Jet ;D ;D
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When I had our 5.72kW system installed, it had a wireless output to my modem.
Rom where ever I was I could see how much it generets, past and current.
However I have changed the channel in my router to have less interference from neighbours and I have lot this.
I have reset the web settings in the inverter (Fronius) but no luck.
Our last bill over the period of 07/05/2014 to 03/09/2014 was $52.00
Pretty happy with that.
At 31/08/2014 I had the following:
Imported: 557kW
Exported: 1028kW
Generated: 1380kW
The system has been running with a new meter since mid June 2014.
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Yes jet crew I just too up,the offer that was out there , but that system cost $17,000 ! $10,000+ was my cost . I can get that system today under $5000
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900Kw in 90 days is a very very low peak power usage figure..I do not know many houses running on 10Kw per day add the 300 off peak = 13.3Kw per 24 hrs thats awesome on its own.
So 1 occupant that explains the 13.3 Kw .. we need to establish the time that your daughter uses power does she work all day ?
My daughter lives alone and is a teacher. She leaves home at 7:30 am and normally gets home around 5:00 pm weekdays.
She generally has the I Pad charging a couple of hours a day, no TV or stereo, doesn't cook much, and brings most of her clothes home for washing on the weekend. Dishwasher gets used every 2 days or so. Even with all this the power bill rates her usage as equal to a typical family of 1.5 people
Cheers.
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Are there no large plants growing in the attic under bright lights?
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Our usage varies between 10kwh and 13kwh per days. For a family of five, not including hot water which adds another 4-6kwh depending on season. The higher end of usage is when we've been using the aircon, only for half a dozen days per season and the dryer gets a bit of a run in winter. All energy efficient lighting, one fridge, but TVs etc all run on standby all the time and there is plenty of washing and dishwashing, averaging one of each per day.
I don't know how others end up with such high bills, except air cond and pools.
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Are there no large plants growing in the attic under bright lights?
No, unfortunately, because if there was I think she would be too mellow to be concerned over a little thing like solar power.
Cheers