MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Coiled on September 17, 2014, 09:04:33 AM
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Hi All,
I am looking at upgrading our Kimberley Kamper to hybrid/crossover and currently set on the Kimberley Karavan in Eco Suite spec. I am drawn to the KK as I have been nothing but extremely impressed with our current KK's quality, functionality and offroad capability. In addition to the things seen on others in this segment the other things that I like are the massive amounts of permanently mounted solar (528w) and batterty capacity (>400amps useable from the lithiums), low towing height, adjustable air suspension and the introduction of bunks to name a few.
I have read the below thread which is quite old so I am looking for any further feedback from others on options they consider must haves things they opted for and don't use, anything that can be done at the factory as a tweak which will make things better and also any other issues experienced. I am aware of the reliability issues experienced in some of the earlier models with the lifting mechanism but believe this to be completed resolved after a mechanism update a few years ago.
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=13408.msg201167#msg201167 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=13408.msg201167#msg201167)
Ps. If anyone is looking for a deal, I will shortly have a 2013 Kimberley Kamper Special Edition up for sale that has been optioned higher than a platinum and which has been fitted with some rarer options such as lithium batteries (150amps useable which is equivalent to 300amps of AGM without the weight) and 345w of solar (220w of this is light weight slim panels which can be permanently attached to tent for instant setup).
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We went camping with friends of ours who have one somy comments are as follows
I found the batteries especially their price overkill i would have been happy with just 2 120 amp hour gell batteries for a quarter of the price of the lithiums
The shower is to small you cant dry yourself so the whole Karavan looked like a water park inside after 4 or us had give the shower a go
Apart from that i loved the compact idea of it however i would not buy one because
Even when folded down it is still to high to get in the standard garage or carport
The expence takes me straight into a very nice offroad caravan
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Friends have just finished a VCAT case against a certain manufacturer for their off road
caravan, the chassis cracked on their first 4 month outing, and the shockers failed.
The manufacturer pretty well have the shocker failures sown up by telling owners it
is your responsibility to make sure they don't overheat.
Court case was thought on the grounds of not fit for purpose, ie Manufacturer advertised
the Caravan can go anywhere your car can go, clearly this was not the case and the judge
or whoever presides agreed.
Result, Caravan returned to manufacturer, friends got a full refund.
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HKB
There is no point mentioning what you have above, unless you tell us who the manufacturer is or a clue to whom the manufacturer is.
Regards
Angus.
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The OP was asking for info regarding the Kimberly Karavan, I provided what I believe
is relevant feedback regarding the same without naming names and leaving the forum
open to threats of legal action.
I looked at these units for a period of around 3 years as I decided on what my next unit
would be. I liked the Kimberly Karavan but was concerned about its all up weight and their
advertising as to it can go anywhere your car can go, maybe on tarmac or reasonable
dirt/gravel roads but serious off road? I expressed my concerns regarding the same to
our friends when they were considering purchasing the unit knowing they intend to take
it anywhere and everywhere and it would seem my concerns were not unfounded.
I believe chassis and shocker failures in these units are not an uncommon event, another
friend recently did a trip to the west, one of the group had a KK and a 200 series, his unit
also suffered shocker failure and I believe a shocker mounting broke away from the chassis
and the chassis had to have temporary repairs done.
Friends unit on same trip was a TVAN, he didn't experience any issues with his unit, I know
he did the CSR on the same trip but I can't recall if the KK also did the CSR.
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The issue with the top spec fox shocks has been around for a while. Overheating is known to kill them. I have the (lower spec according to KK) ride pro shock's on mine and have never had an issue. It has done two laps. Sometimes simple is best.
Also there was a recall due to a welding penetration issue the year before last. I believe most of the effected units were fixed under warranty. Certainly if your shock failed and seized/bent the shaft I wouldn't expect the Shock mount to last long.
Personally I would avoid the fox shocks and look at an alternative, even the lesser spec ride pro gas shocks in mine don't appear to have the same issues.
Jas
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The issue with the top spec fox shocks has been around for a while. Overheating is known to kill them.
Jas
Funny that as when I bought my KK camper back in 2007 ( with Fox shocks ), they were saying it was the only shock they tested that had no issues with heat buildup..
After some obvious failures ( although like me, most wouldn't have heard of them ) I'm surprised a company like them hasn't rectified any weakness in their products..
Pity, as bad publicity gets around the internet pretty quick these days..
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Funny that as when I bought my KK camper back in 2007 ( with Fox shocks ), they were saying it was the only shock they tested that had no issues with heat buildup..
After some obvious failures ( although like me, most wouldn't have heard of them ) I'm surprised a company like them hasn't rectified any weakness in their products..
Pity, as bad publicity gets around the internet pretty quick these days..
Yep to true.
I understand KK put heat indicating paint on them. If they over heat (due to abuse in their eyes) and the paint changes colour warranty is void...............
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That doesn't sound very 'king of the off road' worthy
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That doesn't sound very 'king of the off road' worthy
Funny I don't see fox shocks talked about at all on here or in off road circles, so I don't know what their claim to fame is or what has convinced KK that they are the go.
Plenty of basic OME and other brands stand up to the rigours of out back travel. The dirty old ride pros on mime were recently replaced after nearly 10 years service and two laps.
Jas
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I understand KK put heat indicating paint on them. If they over heat (due to abuse in their eyes) and the paint changes colour warranty is void...............
An admission that they're not up to the task???
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This may not be the case but I believe Kimberly have changed hands a few times,
seems a common thread, someone starts a company and puts a lot of work into
it to build it up and earn a good reputation, then eventually they sell and move
on. Buyers have brought it as a going business with a good reputation, trouble is
the passion is no longer there, they just see it as a cash cow. Eventually without the
passion it will fold.
As I wrote they have the shocker failure problem bound up tight, owner is warned
about the tell tails, any failures due to overheating is owners is a fault.
As for the go anywhere your car can, if think their may be a few other manufactures
rethinking that advertising also when the find out about the results of the VCAT case.
I know I mentioned it to the manufacture of my soon to be delivered very well regarded
unit and he responded with "that's very interesting" and I could hear the wheels turning, they
may also want to reconsider their advertising just to cover their butts though I haven't heard
of any issue with their unit and they have just upgraded their suspension as more are wanting
two water tanks.
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KK has been owned by the same person for at least 10 or more yrs..
Maybe this is one reason they have now gone to airbag suspension ??
I know they used to do a lot of testing......I wonder what happened to their quality ??
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KK has been owned by the same person for at least 10 or more yrs..
Maybe this is one reason they have now gone to airbag suspension ??
I know they used to do a lot of testing......I wonder what happened to their quality ??
Agree Bruce Loxton has owned it for as long as I can recall. All of the components are the same and the suspension hasn't changed at all in design. The issue I believe is just the shocks failing, specifically the fox ones. I don't believe their manufacturing or processes have slackened off at all and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one.
The failures are not all that common considering they are up to about chasiss number 6800 now on the Kampers alone.
I had a good look at the air bag set up and can see some benefits but it all seems a bit OTT to me.
Jas
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You can also blow your warranty by fitting ten ply tyres because the suspension can't take the loads from a stiffer walled tyre. That's set alarm bells ringing for me.
Keith
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Do you really need ten ply tyres on your trailer? Your trailer shouldn't be that heavy, maybe for staking protection in Mulga country.
Regards
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You can also blow your warranty by fitting ten ply tyres because the suspension can't take the loads from a stiffer walled tyre. That's set alarm bells ringing for me.
Keith
Why would you wan to change their factory tyres? They come standard with BFG AT's. Surey you would replace them with crappy coopers jobbies LOL. >:D
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10 ply can cause a harsher ride which leads to jarring. The tyres are actually part of the suspension and absorb a lot of shock. Maybe that is the experience the company found.
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That's right, just like when you deflate your tyres down to 28-30 psi when on dirt roads.
It helps the unsprung weight of the suspension " conform" to the roads profile and a little flex in your sidewalls gives you a smoother ride.
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That's very poetic for this hour of the morning! :)
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10 ply can cause a harsher ride which leads to jarring. The tyres are actually part of the suspension and absorb a lot of shock. Maybe that is the experience the company found.
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A lot of people will fit 10 ply tyres and then run them at 50psi cold because that's what they are told to do. Once the tyres get up to operating temp they may be running close to 60psi and are as hard as a rock which would kill almost anything IMO.
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This is getting out of hand people. Remember we only 'apparently' bash Chinese campers on this forum ;D
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This is getting out of hand people. Remember we only 'apparently' bash Chinese campers on this forum ;D
Nah........we also kill tall poppy's LOL. ;D
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Nah........we also kill tall poppy's LOL. ;D
:cup:
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This is getting out of hand people. Remember we only 'apparently' bash Chinese campers on this forum ;D
Mercy, where did that come from?
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Mercy, where did that come from?
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Crazy isn't it. We are highlighting issues with Aussie built campers, SHOCK HORROR!
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Tyres. Talking about tyres and why the manufacturer does not recommend 10 ply.
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Tyres. Talking about tyres and why the manufacturer does not recommend 10 ply.
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Yep, and shockies failing and the resultant chassis cracking.
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Because of the TYRES.
it's okay to own Chinese stuff. Truly it is. Here's a cuddle. ()()()
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Because of the TYRES.
it's okay to own Chinese stuff. Truly it is. Here's a cuddle. ()()()
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Settle down Daz, I was taking the piss (JasonB seemed to get my joke). And yes, I own a Chinese tent, haha. If you read back through the thread I think you'll see that the 10 ply tyre was an issue that could void your warranty (obviously because of the harsher ride) but people were having failures regardless of the tyres, from what has been said due to shock failure. So, NO, not purely because of tyres.
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Settle down Daz, I was taking the piss (JasonB seemed to get my joke). And yes, I own a Chinese tent, haha. If you read back through the thread I think you'll see that the 10 ply tyre was an issue that could void your warranty (obviously because of the harsher ride) but people were having failures regardless of the tyres, from what has been said due to shock failure. So, NO, not purely because of tyres.
Lol 1/2 my posts have been tongue in cheek also...................no body usually gets my jokes..... :D
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Lol 1/2 my posts have been tongue in cheek also...................no body usually gets my jokes..... :D
Nor mine it would seem :cheers:
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Nor mine it would seem :cheers:
:cheers:
We must be special..............lol
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Ahhhh, and so was mine.
Stirring young fella. No need to throw out the 'settle' line.
So settle. :D
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Funny I don't see fox shocks talked about at all on here or in off road circles, so I don't know what their claim to fame is or what has convinced KK that they are the go.
Plenty of basic OME and other brands stand up to the rigours of out back travel. The dirty old ride pros on mime were recently replaced after nearly 10 years service and two laps.
Jas
Prob for the same reason they think 6 small agms in parallel is a good idea and wont accept that 36 cells is an equalisation disaster.. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Keen to see the airbag, KK seem to like to be the front runner in things but as times goes on I feel they simply change things to more expensive set ups to justify the $$$ figure.
there batt fix was lithium at a large cost to the purchaser and wont entertain 2 x 100 a/h units from factory just like 99.9% of other camper/van builders. I know of no other make that has suffered so many premature batt failures.
jet ;D
Jet ;D ;D
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Ahhhh, and so was mine.
Stirring young fella. No need to throw out the 'settle' line.
So settle. :D
Who you callin' young fella :cheers:
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Hi Everyone,
Just letting you know the Canon family were the original owners of this brand of campers. They were enthusiastic campers and produced a great product
barb
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Hi Everyone,
Just letting you know the CANON family were the original owners of this brand of campers.
So that was just before they went OFF .... ;D ;D ;D LOL sorry but just couldnt help myself ..
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The owner ( Bruce Loxton ) is a very wealthy man and has probably not got the same "poor" peoples view on some things..
He has done some things a lot earlier than others ( laser cut chassis, car like production line etc ) and has tried to introduce some cutting edge ideas.....but as mentioned about batteries, he seems pretty set in his ways ( maybe stubborn ) and won't change things easily..
The KK range is a quality bit of gear, but it's not going to stay that way if they don't listen to constructive criticism..
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Has anyone actually got any usefull or relevant info for the OP? Sorry about the hijack Michael lol.
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Na, it looks as if we're wasting the OPs time.
Seriously if a mono tube off-road race shock can't dissipate heat then how can a twin tube 4wd shock?
Regards
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If the OP already has a Kimberley Kamper, then he should be able to access the Kimberley owners forum and search for other owners opinions of the product they have purchased. I've not seen the threads myself in regards to Karavans (I'm told there's one in relation to them), but am lead to believe it's not a forum of happy owners just patting themselves on their backs in regards to their purchase, there are apparently some unhappy owners voicing their opinions on there also, so would be worth looking at.
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Rumpig,
Would the forum be KKOG? The only problem is you have to prove that you own one or have paid a deposit for one to become a member.
Regards
Angus.
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Rumpig,
Would the forum be KKOG? The only problem is you have to prove that you own one or have paid a deposit for one to become a member.
Regards
Angus.
yes you need to have proof of ownership to access the forum
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How come I didn't know about this secret KK group!...............lol they probably wouldn't let me in anyway.
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How come I didn't know about this secret KK group!...............lol they probably wouldn't let me in anyway.
when you buy from Kimberley it's mentioned in the paper work somewhere from memory. I've never been on that forum, keep meaning to but always forget about it.
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So out of all the above Kimberly haters one person knows a person that had issues with a with a Kimberly Karavan and it's not that I don't believe your mate had issues but it's one out of thousands.
I have a Kimberly Kamper serial 5778 it's 2012 model can the only thing that failed on it was the fridge slide and trailer plugs getting ripped of by rocks.
I have heard of the a stub axel failing in very early models but most stories always start with my mate had this or that fail on his Kimberly and that there Shit and would never buy one.
I always tell them they can't be that Shit if there sold over 6000 Kampers.
I would hazard a guess that there more Kimberley Kampers floating around Aus that any other brand of camper.
Normally when there a issue with a product it the owner that makes the most noise about there issues.
Kimberly have installed heat stickers on the Fox Shocks to help inform them if you have over heated them. The only way I could see some one over heating them on a Kamper would be gross overloading like 4.5m boat with a 25 horse outboard and running very high tyre pressure on rough roads and not driving to the conditions.
The only reason Kimberley tell you not to run 10ply tyres is that there a over kill and they can contribute to suspension overheating or damage.
How many other camper manufactures have ever tested there campers with more than one type of tyre. Kimberly also tell you not to fit 19 tyres as it's over heats the shocks and the lack of side wall makes a big difference.
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I have replied above, but I'm not a hater.........in fact I've owned 2 KK's...a 2005 and a 2007 model.
I still think they are the best camper made......but bad stories don't all get made up...there must be some truth to them...
If a company really knew their stuff, they could design suspension to cope with wooden wheels !!!
Bullet proof swingarms and dual shocks if they have to, but it can be done....and the line about not using 10 ply tyres is just highlighting that the suspension is not bulletproof !!
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I always tell them they can't be that **** if there sold over 6000 Kampers.
I would hazard a guess that there more Kimberley Kampers floating around Aus that any other brand of camper.
WRONG! On 2 fronts; 1. You cannot judge quality by volume of sales 2. There is another camper mob that claims to have over 20000 units out there which, in turn,fully supports point 1.
By the way, I think KK's are a marvelous bit of kit and I'd own one in a heartbeat.
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As I also wrote in my post, I like the KK and would buy depending on what where I intend to use it.
The owner has to take some responsibility, as I said in my original post, I advised our friends against
buying the unit due to what I had read and my concerns regarding the units weight and being able to
go anywhere your car can go. I knew the friend concerned would expect it to do as advertised and
certainly would not be the type to stop every half hour or so to let shockers cool etc.
It is not one or two failures, if you do some research on the net you will find many complaining of the
same issues. Also two friends one who has experienced the failure with his own unit, the other friend
who seem similar with a KK unit last year on the club trip is not a good statistic, keep in mind where
only discussing the KK unit, not all kimberly products in general.
Friends in their action had representation from an independent engineer arguing the suspension and chassis
is not fit for purpose, ie can go anywhere you car can go, clearly in my friends case it couldn't! Kimberly didn't
even bother providing independent engineer testimony, judge asked the Kimberly representative where is your
technical expert the Kimberly person replied there's just me and the Judge replied then you know where this is
heading then. The judge agreed with the not fit for purpose.
As I said above, I would still consider buying the unit, if I didn't intend to do hard off road work. The shocker
situation I would live with as I always stop every 40 minutes or so and check anyway.
The OP asked for comment regarding the KK and I believe he should be aware of the issues to be able to make
an informed decision, it's a bit late reading about it on their forum after you have already purchased the product,
which raises another issue, if the Kimberly product is so good why do you have to own one to be able to access the forum? other manufactures forums are open, the manufactures are prepared to take the good and the bad why don't Kimberly do the same?
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So out of all the above Kimberly haters one person knows a person that had issues with a with a Kimberly Karavan and it's not that I don't believe your mate had issues but it's one out of thousands.
I have a Kimberly Kamper serial 5778 it's 2012 model can the only thing that failed on it was the fridge slide and trailer plugs getting ripped of by rocks.
I have heard of the a stub axel failing in very early models but most stories always start with my mate had this or that fail on his Kimberly and that there **** and would never buy one.
I always tell them they can't be that **** if there sold over 6000 Kampers.
I would hazard a guess that there more Kimberley Kampers floating around Aus that any other brand of camper.
Normally when there a issue with a product it the owner that makes the most noise about there issues.
Kimberly have installed heat stickers on the Fox Shocks to help inform them if you have over heated them. The only way I could see some one over heating them on a Kamper would be gross overloading like 4.5m boat with a 25 horse outboard and running very high tyre pressure on rough roads and not driving to the conditions.
The only reason Kimberley tell you not to run 10ply tyres is that there a over kill and they can contribute to suspension overheating or damage.
How many other camper manufactures have ever tested there campers with more than one type of tyre. Kimberly also tell you not to fit 19 tyres as it's over heats the shocks and the lack of side wall makes a big difference.
Whose a hater? I own one, and thought most of the above posts were a sensible discussion with some tongue in cheek jibes. Lighten up.
They are a great Kamper and when I upgrade it will be to another. All brands have their issues however.
Jas
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Whose a hater? I own one, and thought most of the above posts were a sensible discussion with some tongue in cheek jibes. Lighten up.
They are a great Kamper and when I upgrade it will be to another. All brands have their issues however.
Jas
bugger it. ill be a hater just so there is someone. pick me pick me :cup: :cup:
geez those kimberlys are crap, you would never own 1 of them ;D ;D
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bugger it. ill be a hater just so there is someone. pick me pick me :cup: :cup:
geez those kimberlys are crap, you would never own 1 of them ;D ;D
Your not a genuine 'hater' so your statement makes me feel cheated.
:'(
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This has seen more post activity than expected sadly with little acknowledging the information sought. While on the bandwagon, the biggest issue I have been able to identify is failures with the lifting mechanism of the Karavan. This was resolved in around 2009/2010 with a redesign that drop the lift load considerably.
Chester - Thanks for your input. Were you using the shower screen? I was concerned about this aspect but would knowing the floor is all fully sealed it is easily wiped up. I think I will still use the external shower tent except in caravan parks but will be handy for showering the kids out of the cold.
HKB - Thanks for the feedback. Are you able to shed any further light on this ie year model, circumstances, actual failure etc?. As others have said, there was a run of defective trailing arms due to an isolated welding issue and also some from what I understand with the wider offset trailing arms to suit 200series cruisers. The design was modified but I presume will always be inherently weaker than the 0 or +30 track due to the additional leverage of the +70. I won't be using the latter. :D. I am not sure that KK are losing the passion. Yep, I am sure Bruce Loxton is loaded but have a chat to him at a 4wd/camping show. I have seen him at every one I have been to in Sydney over the last 2 years (Only lived in Sydney that long). Chatting to him recently he is clearly passionate about his products but that passion extends to the environment and green technology. An interesting guy who knew his product!
Jason - Are there really issues with the Fox shocks? I haven't come across anything on this before and have them fitted to my current KK. They may have a heat reactive paint (not sure) but they actually have temp gauge on them for you to check whether you are pushing to hard or not. ie slow down or drop tyre pressures further etc. The Fox shocks are also fully rebuildable and do have a history in performance suspension.
Gronk - Similar to Jason. My current KK (2013 build) is of brilliant quality and have no doubts over its structural integrity.
KeithB - Have a read of the downloadable articles. They provide a good understanding of the whys in all of their designs. As per Jason, I don't see anything wrong with the BFG AT's that come with it standard. Why would you want to fit 10ply tyres to anything when it isn't required knowing that it will put undue stress on components regardless of their strength.
Rumpig/Diesel Power - I have logged onto the KK portal but haven't been able to find anything but useful tech info like the dealer product training info, schematics for wiring etc. I have come across the KKOG but don't know if there is any formal affiliation with KK. You have to pay to join and my first impression is that it is a bunch KK Owners who only want to associate with other KK Owners because they think they are somehow better. I would love to be corrected on this as it shouldn't matter what equipment others use.
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After missing out on a 6 month old unit (Owners upgrading to the big Kruiser) earlier in the week by about an hour I decided to put the order in for a new one. It will be ready for delivery at the end of October early November at latest.
I was biased going in after being so impressed by the Kimberley Kamper but after looking at Complete Campsite Exodus, Tvan Topaz, LCT AT10/AT12, AOR's I felt the KK best suited our requirements and intended use. I am obviously looking forward to getting and will provide feedback as an owner as that progresses.
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This Ten Ply Rating thing is a bit confusing to me because nobody builds tyres for normal vehicles with ten plys these days. I have Copper ST Maxx 33's which are a 121 rating, which I am guessing is ten ply. Can anyone straighten me out on that?
If I wanted to put these tyres on a Kimberley camper (God willing if I had one) for the sake of interchangeability, I would blow my warranty - that's if my ten ply assumption is correct.
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Coiled,
My friends KK I referred is was delivered end of last year, so late 2013 other unit
I don't know about as I wasn't on that trip.
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After missing out on a 6 month old unit (Owners upgrading to the big Kruiser) earlier in the week by about an hour I decided to put the order in for a new one. It will be ready for delivery at the end of October early November at latest.
I was biased going in after being so impressed by the Kimberley Kamper but after looking at Complete Campsite Exodus, Tvan Topaz, LCT AT10/AT12, AOR's I felt the KK best suited our requirements and intended use. I am obviously looking forward to getting and will provide feedback as an owner as that progresses.
Good on ha mate. :cup:
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Coiled,
My friends KK I referred is was delivered end of last year, so late 2013 other unit
I don't know about as I wasn't on that trip.
Do you know if they had the 200series LC wheel offset? It seems to be the default spec of dealers. What was the actual issue, was it the suspension arm failing and perhaps further damage or was it literally a chassis failure and if so what failed or where did it crack? When I look under my Kamper it is pretty solidly built and while nothing is impossible, I am truly surprised to hear of a critical failure.
Can you get specific details from your mate? The only bad stories you hear about KK's are 'hear says' not from owners, perhaps with the exception of the suspension arm issue previously mentioned, so it would be beneficial to know what actually failed. It may assist someone who is investing their hard earned on a second hand Aussie Built to identify an issue.
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Is this the prototype for the next Kimberley Karavan ;D
(http://image2.redbull.com/rbcom/010/2014-09-10/1331677735641_2/0010/1/800/533/2/the-kiravan.-comes-with-motorcycle.jpg)
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Is this the prototype for the next Kimberley Karavan ;D
(http://image2.redbull.com/rbcom/010/2014-09-10/1331677735641_2/0010/1/800/533/2/the-kiravan.-comes-with-motorcycle.jpg)
Makes me glad that I have put an order in on the outgoing model! :cheers: