Post by: evolution on September 03, 2014, 09:35:50 AM
After selling my Patrol earlier this year I wasn't sure what to get to replace it...
We have a D22 str, and although a little rough its quite a capable toy off road. However Swmbo doesn't like using it day to day due to the lack of room in the back with two car seats. (one forward and one rear facing)
As much as I wouldn't mind another patrol or a landcruiser I can't justify spending as much as would be required to get what I would want. (EG: 200 series :cup: )
So After some research it leaves me with either the following:
2007-2010 Pajero
2003ish Prado.
Basic list of requirements for the new family tug would be the following:
7 seats
Comfortable to drive as a daily for the misses
a few luxuries would be nice (climate control etc etc)
enough power to tow and maintain some fuel efficiency
good enough off road to take some basic tracks with a camper on the back (Got the navara when I want to go and play in the mud)
Auto/manual doesn't matter, would probably prefer auto for longer trips.
Budget of around 20k
I know both those cars are great choices, but are there any others that would fit the bill? If not out of those two are there any issues to look out for?
Ideally what ever car we get would have under 100k kms on it (doable on the Pajero, but yet to find an earlier Prado in our price range with low kms)
Im not in a rush at this point but if the right car pops up then I might be lol
Cheers
Evo
Post by: staghornflat on September 03, 2014, 09:50:52 AM
Post by: BigJules on September 03, 2014, 10:09:30 AM
The Pajero has always been a good vehicle, though suffered from terrible resale, which is in your favour now as likely you could get a newer model within your budget. I find the interior not as pleasant as Prado unless you're looking at the higher spec models. I'm not aware that they have many faults or weaknesses.
Prado's are just good gear, though I understand the D4D (2005?) to be a significant improvement in the diesel engined models.
Post by: achjimmy on September 03, 2014, 10:11:06 AM
Post by: Bird on September 03, 2014, 10:17:32 AM
I took a VRX Paj for a run and it was SMmmmmmoooooooooooooooooooooooooth....
if this is going to be predominately for wife and kids... Paj is bigger and maybe harder to drive for her.
but maybe my mind isn't completely clear due to hideous buzzing coming from my radio ruining my new awesome sound.... :'( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Post by: dazzler on September 03, 2014, 10:28:01 AM
But, an 04 to 06 first update TD with the earlier engine is in that price range. A new exhaust and quality chip and the power is close to the later D4d. Fuel use around 12.5.
We went with prado mainly as my mum had the Pajero and I considered the rear seat unsafe for our 6yo as the belt is too far from the seat on the c pillar and it meant they could move around too much. (Bit OCD on this as I was a serious crash investigator).
The big thing I found was the prado is waaaaaassy quieter than the prado of the same age. The 04 update had more sound deadening. Drive them back to back and see what I mean. Ours has 240k on it and most passengers are amazed at how quiet it is.
That's not to say discount Pajero. They are a good vehicle and more economical. You can tell they don't quite spend the r and d that Tojo do, given their $$$.
Good luck. You are welcome to take ours for a drive if you are down tweed way.
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Post by: JCOJ on September 03, 2014, 10:32:38 AM
I did the stats when purchasing our 4wd back in 2010 and the only area where the Prado was better than the Pajero was the fuel capacity. However it was cheaper for us by a mile to purchase the Pajero and get a long range tank fitted.
The Pajero has more torque, more power, longer warranty, and was cheaper, and I would aruge the point that the Pajero hasn't a good resale value - we purchased ours for $57k new and sold it for $40k four years later. Yes it did have mods done to it but anyone will tell you that they are worth jack when it comes to resale.
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 03, 2014, 10:38:18 AM
Prior to that with only a 4 speed auto and the onld 1kz they were a bit of a slug
Post by: Axl on September 03, 2014, 10:43:33 AM
I own a 2005 NP 3.6 V6 and it too is a brilliant vehicle the only complaint I have is that it is heavy on fuel when towing. It is a 5 speed manual and I won’t tow in 5th so I get around 20-22lts to the 100kms when the CT or the boat is hooked up. But hey its only fuel and when I am towing either of these I am usually heading somewhere to have some fun ;D.
I paid around 20k for mine a couple of years back and at the time I looked at the Prado’s but for the money I had they were way more expensive than a similar era Pajero so that’s what I brought. It all boils down to what you want to spend.
My advice would be keep an eye out for a diesel Pajero, for the money you have mentioned you’d like to spend above I don’t think you will get one within the 07-10 bracket but you may get one in the 05-07 era.
Post by: evolution on September 03, 2014, 11:17:31 AM
We are going down to test drive a 2008 VR-X petrol today so hopefully that will answer a couple of our questions.
The diesel in the pajero's certainly seem to be significantly dearer. Although I did find this one..
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Mitsubishi-Pajero-2007/SSE-AD-2981253/?Cr=47&sdmvc=1 (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Mitsubishi-Pajero-2007/SSE-AD-2981253/?Cr=47&sdmvc=1)
I do like the Prado, its just a little harder to justify so much coin on a ten year old car compared to a 4-7 year old car?
In saying that I do like the Prado, hence why I am asking. (Its just harder to convince the other half to spend the money)
So in summing up both points from Daz and Chester then an 05-06 Prado Diesel would be the one to look for?
5speed auto and no D4D?
I guess the budget is a bit up in the air at the moment. Ideally mid next year I will replace the Navara with something newer. Although I don't know what yet, Depends on what I end up doing with work. The idea behind this car at the moment is to really just give the misses a nice car that has room and we can take on holiday to perth or brisbane with the camper.
When i replace the Navara I will probably look at a ranger or if money is available a 200. >:D
Cheers
Evo
Post by: ScottT on September 03, 2014, 11:43:32 AM
I would only push real hard for a post 05 prado as they then came with 5 speed auto
Prior to that with only a 4 speed auto and the onld 1kz they were a bit of a slug
A bit of a slug ?! Are you kidding me ?
I've got the 05 4 speed auto and it travels just fine. Good fuel economy and excellent pulling prowess, with 216,000 klms on the clock.
Everyone that rides in it can't believe how good she goes, for a rather agriculture diesel (just how a like them !)
I mean, do you need to break land and speed records ? I happily cruise at 100k's pulling the Customline @ about 1200kgs.
We looked at both and could've easily got the Paj, but I've owned Toyotas for years and stuck with what I knew (and was guided by the misses a little too ! :angel: )
Cheers, Scott
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 03, 2014, 12:04:01 PM
I was happy with the engine and very happy with the vehicle as a whole but not the 4 speed auto as i found towing my goldstream at around 1600kg loaded it would hunt between 3rd and 4th at the slightest wiff of a hill or headwind. This was my only gripe with the vehicle.
To compare the chipped prado and the dmax i have now have close to the same power figures (post chip on the prado) but the dmax blows the prado out of the water when towing with the extra cog (5 speed in the dmax)
If you are just punting around or towing a box trailer type camper then go for it
As to the origional question i do not thing the 03 to 05 came out with 5 speed auto it was introduced with the D4D engine change over
Post by: achjimmy on September 03, 2014, 12:59:19 PM
Thanks for the points guys,
We are going down to test drive a 2008 VR-X petrol today so hopefully that will answer a couple of our questions.
The diesel in the pajero's certainly seem to be significantly dearer. Although I did find this one..
http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Mitsubishi-Pajero-2007/SSE-AD-2981253/?Cr=47&sdmvc=1 (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Mitsubishi-Pajero-2007/SSE-AD-2981253/?Cr=47&sdmvc=1)
I do like the Prado, its just a little harder to justify so much coin on a ten year old car compared to a 4-7 year old car?
In saying that I do like the Prado, hence why I am asking. (Its just harder to convince the other half to spend the money)
So in summing up both points from Daz and Chester then an 05-06 Prado Diesel would be the one to look for?
5speed auto and no D4D?
I guess the budget is a bit up in the air at the moment. Ideally mid next year I will replace the Navara with something newer. Although I don't know what yet, Depends on what I end up doing with work. The idea behind this car at the moment is to really just give the misses a nice car that has room and we can take on holiday to perth or brisbane with the camper.
When i replace the Navara I will probably look at a ranger or if money is available a 200. >:D
Cheers
Evo
There was a major motor update between NS and NT with the later getting more kilo wasps, being quieter and getting new tranny iirc. Watch for rust on the seems of the back doors, that the timing chain top guide has been replaced on the oilers. Also the problematic DPF got the flick in later models. Paj forum is a great source of info.
Post by: Andy_Q on September 03, 2014, 01:18:50 PM
Ours is an ex police car we got at auction for $30k. With smart bar warn winch and lights. It was 3 years old with 60,000km and still in new car warrantee. Had a couple of things fixed without any argument.
The pajero diesel needs better bash plates under the engine to protect the inter cooler. Bushskinz are the way to go.
Engine transmission etc are great. Plenty of power and I have not yet had any hunting through gears or other issues.
The pajero rear suspension is soft for towing and as it has independent suspension tyres can wear unevenly when towing. Air bags supposedly cure this issue.
Seats are very comfortable for me. I have not noticed the rear seat belt being an issue but will look at this.
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Post by: Bird on September 03, 2014, 01:35:55 PM
Post by: db on September 03, 2014, 01:40:42 PM
"The only issue I've heard on some paj's is when you lift them, you end up with 180B syndrome on the back tyre camber causing **** wear issues". Yep, if you lift too much and / or don't get a wheel alignment done properly. There are apparently ways of getting around this even so. I had wear issues only when suspension too soft. Appropriate springs and air bags had it sorted. Plus rotate tyres regularly.
Post by: Argle on September 03, 2014, 02:56:53 PM
I have had an 05 NP D.I.D (Diesel) 5 speed auto since new, and I cannot fault it for towing. I tow an 1800kg fibreglass boat as well as a Jayco Swan. Towing the boat on the highway it used around 15l/100 depending on how heavy I get with the right hoof, around town it returns 10l/100 week in week out - even with my lead foot missus driving >:D
The 3.2L DID Pajero's were a huge improvement over the earlier 2.8 engine. They may be a bit noisy at idle but at highway speed I find them to be as quiet as any other car - highly recommended!
Post by: lino6 on September 03, 2014, 03:36:14 PM
What did you tell me Pajero meant in Spanish again??
But in all seriousness, test drive. Things can look brilliant on paper, but without driving the thing you'll never know what its really like. Before we got the DMax, we were looking at them all and the BT50 was miles in front on paper (factoring in price) but when we drove it the thing felt wrong. You know the rest of the story!
BTW I thought SWMBO already made her mind up about the Pajero??!! ;D
Post by: rotare on September 03, 2014, 04:21:58 PM
Yes the diesels in the Pajero's aren't whisper quiet, but in the real world as soon as you put on A/T tyres, roof racks, bulbar, have the radio on, the window down or have a conversation in the car you will struggle hear the engine noise over everything else. There are no camber issues with lifting the vehicle. 50-75mm lifts are common on these cars and a wheel alignment after fitting a set of new springs will have the vehicle sitting perfectly.
Post by: brickiematt on September 03, 2014, 04:31:09 PM
Ticks all the boxes in your OP.
The wife will love it!
More bang for your bucks plus you can get a much younger car for the same price.
We did the same comparison when we bought the Paj, and we couldn't be happier with it!
Cheers
Matt
Post by: evolution on September 03, 2014, 04:53:38 PM
Get her a segaway and a trailer!!
What did you tell me Pajero meant in Spanish again??
But in all seriousness, test drive. Things can look brilliant on paper, but without driving the thing you'll never know what its really like. Before we got the DMax, we were looking at them all and the BT50 was miles in front on paper (factoring in price) but when we drove it the thing felt wrong. You know the rest of the story!
BTW I thought SWMBO already made her mind up about the Pajero??!! ;D
Haha yeah mate, I know what it means something to do with "he who satisfies himself" lol
Yeah thats what I was thinking, We just got back from testdriving a 2011 GLX diesel. Nice car, although it didn't feel as refined as a Toyo diesel.
And yep, she had. But I told her if she want's a new car anytime soon then she has to at least test drive one.
Moral of the story she came back from the test drive with a big grin and said she loved it lol :cup:
Cheers
Evo
Post by: evolution on September 03, 2014, 04:57:22 PM
Pajero.
Ticks all the boxes in your OP.
The wife will love it!
More bang for your bucks plus you can get a much younger car for the same price.
We did the same comparison when we bought the Paj, and we couldn't be happier with it!
Cheers
Matt
Hmmmmm I seem to remember that ;D Glad you're happy with it mate.
Just need to decide if I go the Pajero whether to go diesel or petrol. Realistically most of the cars duty will be short stop start driving.....
Struggling to find a prado in our price range that ticks the boxes, I had a look up to say 30grand and some of the later ones in good condition start appearing.
However going to 30g in a pajero opens up only a 2 year old car????
Cheers
Evo
Post by: Bird on September 03, 2014, 05:05:06 PM
Quote from: evolution
Hmmmmm I seem to remember that ;D Glad you're happy with it mate.everything you'd written says you want the Prado... sounds like your minds made up! Prado with Alpine ina w900e head unit :P
Just need to decide if I go the Pajero whether to go diesel or petrol. Realistically most of the cars duty will be short stop start driving.....
Struggling to find a prado in our price range that ticks the boxes, I had a look up to say 30grand and some of the later ones in good condition start appearing.
However going to 30g in a pajero opens up only a 2 year old car????
Cheers
Evo
Post by: dazzler on September 03, 2014, 05:21:37 PM
Yeah thats what I was thinking, We just got back from testdriving a 2011 GLX diesel. Nice car, although it didn't feel as refined as a Toyo diesel.
And that is why tojo's are so much more $$$$$$
The reality is its a personal choice to spend the extra to get it. Mitsubishi just add more bling to make it look better, Toyota product develop.
Both are good and you won't go wrong with either. Neither really makes any more sense than the other. Have fun now.
I'm not going to lie to you Marge.
Post by: Axl on September 03, 2014, 05:25:55 PM
Hmmmmm I seem to remember that ;D Glad you're happy with it mate.
Just need to decide if I go the Pajero whether to go diesel or petrol. Realistically most of the cars duty will be short stop start driving.....
Struggling to find a prado in our price range that ticks the boxes, I had a look up to say 30grand and some of the later ones in good condition start appearing.
However going to 30g in a pajero opens up only a 2 year old car????
Cheers
Evo
I think you just answered your own question.....
Post by: dazzler on September 03, 2014, 05:27:01 PM
:)
I'm not going to lie to you Marge.
Post by: evolution on September 03, 2014, 05:44:41 PM
Something I forgot. If you are thinking earlier Prados the petrol is a pretty good choice against the old diesel. They return around the 13-14 lphk so not much more than the TD but put out big kW. Take a petrol grande for a run and you will be amazed at the quality and comfort. If I had my time over I would have grabbed the petrol.
:)
I'm not going to lie to you Marge.
Thanks mate, That could open up a possibility.
everything you'd written says you want the Prado... sounds like your minds made up! Prado with Alpine ina w900e head unit :PI really WANT a prado, however the diesels just seem to much coin for something that realistically is going to be a country version of a toorak tractor.
And that is why tojo's are so much more $$$$$$
The reality is its a personal choice to spend the extra to get it. Mitsubishi just add more bling to make it look better, Toyota product develop.
Both are good and you won't go wrong with either. Neither really makes any more sense than the other. Have fun now.
I'm not going to lie to you Marge.
I reckon you're right mate, however the pajero isn't as bad as what I was expecting.
I think you just answered your own question.....
It's looking that way. However I really don't want to spend 30k on a car this year as it will completely ruin any chance of getting a new ranger or a used 200 next year to replace the navara.....
I guess at this point if there really aren't anything major wrong with them then I will probably just keep looking and work out a set budget.
(probably should sell the stopgap now then lol)
That way if the right car pops up I can just grab it.
I think I might just go for the newest, lowest km, and well maintained version of whatever comes up at the time.
I must say although the Prado's have always been a good rig, the newer pajero's are a huge leap forward to even the 05 models as far as drive ability goes.
Cheers
Evo
Post by: dazzler on September 03, 2014, 05:45:52 PM
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Post by: Wrex on September 03, 2014, 06:00:05 PM
The NS model in Diesel and only the Autos had the dreaded DPF issue. I still have a headache from mine and I traded it in 12months ago.
The Pajero forum is full of the "not fit for purpose DPF" issues. The carboning up of the manifold is also a big issue with the Mitsi diesels.
Read the awesome Pajero forum and arm yourself with as much info as you can.
If going for the petrol go for your life, I traded to a petrol FJ Cruiser and haven't looked back.
Post by: dazzler on September 03, 2014, 07:35:48 PM
Triton are now the worst around.
Post by: tourin n fishin on September 03, 2014, 09:28:59 PM
Post by: Landyline on September 03, 2014, 09:36:06 PM
However after test driving a new pajero it really did my head in. The Pajero was just so much nicer to be in and drive.
So after much deliberation and reading about each ones issues we bought the Pajero. It has been a fantastic tourer over the last 14 months.
I still like the Prado and I think the interior is a little better put together (noticeable when you pull each one apart) but after owning the Pajero I don't enjoy driving the Prado anywhere near as much as I used too.
On the upside we are replacing our Prado at work with a Pajero this month
The main things I'll miss in the Prado are the numerous drink bottle holders (not cup holders) and the fuel tank size.
Really if you can get over the fact it isn't a Toyota the Pajero wins easily and given you are comparing to a 120 Prado years older than the Pajero you're considering then it's a no brainer.
Post by: lino6 on September 03, 2014, 09:42:36 PM
http://www.chevrolet.com/suburban-suv.html (http://www.chevrolet.com/suburban-suv.html)
3700kg towing. Would be handy!
Post by: evolution on September 03, 2014, 09:59:37 PM
I have a 150 Prado at work. Loved it. When it came time for us to update our own car a new Prado was the obvious choice.
However after test driving a new pajero it really did my head in. The Pajero was just so much nicer to be in and drive.
So after much deliberation and reading about each ones issues we bought the Pajero. It has been a fantastic tourer over the last 14 months.
I still like the Prado and I think the interior is a little better put together (noticeable when you pull each one apart) but after owning the Pajero I don't enjoy driving the Prado anywhere near as much as I used too.
On the upside we are replacing our Prado at work with a Pajero this month
The main things I'll miss in the Prado are the numerous drink bottle holders (not cup holders) and the fuel tank size.
Really if you can get over the fact it isn't a Toyota the Pajero wins easily and given you are comparing to a 120 Prado years older than the Pajero you're considering then it's a no brainer.
Pretty much where my logical side is at the moment. I have to keep telling myself its for the other half, not me.
So therefor it doesn't matter what it is lol
How about a 3rd option?
http://www.chevrolet.com/suburban-suv.html (http://www.chevrolet.com/suburban-suv.html)
3700kg towing. Would be handy!
Thought about that, however I was thinking more like one of these...
http://www.ford.com/suvs/expedition/trim/platinumextendedlength/ (http://www.ford.com/suvs/expedition/trim/platinumextendedlength/)
just under 4200kg towing... With built in brake controller.... :cup:
BUT the wallet says no :'(
Cheers
Evo
Post by: treads on September 03, 2014, 10:49:17 PM
PS: Don't buy an ex-police Pajero - actually don't buy an ex-police anything.... ;D
Post by: SteveandViv on September 04, 2014, 12:51:26 AM
The only issue I've heard on some paj's is when you lift them, you end up with 180B syndrome on the back tyre camber causing **** wear issues.
Yea but they have camber adjustments on the rear for that.
Post by: chester ver2.0 on September 04, 2014, 10:33:47 AM
Something I forgot. If you are thinking earlier Prados the petrol is a pretty good choice against the old diesel. They return around the 13-14 lphk so not much more than the TD but put out big kW. Take a petrol grande for a run and you will be amazed at the quality and comfort. If I had my time over I would have grabbed the petrol.
:)
I'm not going to lie to you Marge.
Mate i am of the same thinking even if i went a 150 series i would look at petrol
Post by: Nomad on September 04, 2014, 07:03:59 PM
I think you would be much better of with what ever the newer model of either you can get.
I would buy the Pajero if it was a choice between an 04 ish Prado and an 07 to 10 ish Pajero.
And I am biased towards the Prado obviously.
:cheers:
Post by: hotboostgt on September 04, 2014, 08:58:59 PM
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Post by: heath74 on September 04, 2014, 09:18:45 PM
But value for money you won't beat the Paj although I though they were a bit sloppy to drive relative to the prado, so in the end I just stretched the budget.
If your budget is set in stone, so you can get a 200 soon, the I'm sure the Paj will fit the bill. They are also an excellent car.
Post by: ScottT on September 05, 2014, 09:17:07 AM
Scott T i also had the same model traded with 240,000 on it and still going with chip fitted
I was happy with the engine and very happy with the vehicle as a whole but not the 4 speed auto as i found towing my goldstream at around 1600kg loaded it would hunt between 3rd and 4th at the slightest wiff of a hill or headwind. This was my only gripe with the vehicle.
To compare the chipped prado and the dmax i have now have close to the same power figures (post chip on the prado) but the dmax blows the prado out of the water when towing with the extra cog (5 speed in the dmax)
If you are just punting around or towing a box trailer type camper then go for it
As to the origional question i do not thing the 03 to 05 came out with 5 speed auto it was introduced with the D4D engine change over
Fair enough, but surely you purchase what will suit your needs, I mean if you're pulling close to the max you're going to get issues.
Either way, I still love my 120 series (non D4D) !
Post by: GGV8Cruza on September 05, 2014, 09:47:40 AM
GG