MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: slcs78 on August 28, 2014, 05:31:28 PM
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On the 11th of this month I purchased a folding solar kit via Ebay. On the 12th it was updated as shipped via TNT with a delivery date of the 15th-18th of August. Time got away from me and on the 20th I realised it hadn't turned up so did a search on the TNT website. On the 12th it had left Sydney and on the 13th it had been scanned into Sydney and then nothing. I launched an investigation with TNT and gave the Ebay seller courtesy of an email to inform them. Its now the 28th and despite requesting photos of the panels from the seller they still cant find them (well no Shit, one of your drop kick employees has nicked them probably). TNT have informed me they will continue to search for 10 working days but haven't been forthcoming on what next?
The Ebay seller claims because I didn't request insurance he will only generously reimburse me the $20 postage. So what are my rights. In my thinking, I entered a sales contract with the seller to deliver the panels for $x amount to my door. Whilst its not his fault its sure as hell not mine. If I launch a Paypal dispute will it be upheld??? End of the day I just want my solar panels or my $300 back
Thanks
Scott
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surely if TNT have scanned the item into their depo, and not scanned them out, they are responsible??
Otherwise it would be open-season on everyone's parcels. A nice perk of being of the job maybe.
I would raise a dispute with Paypal personally.
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this may help:
http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/buy/item-not-received.html (http://pages.ebay.com.au/help/buy/item-not-received.html)
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PayPal will probably find in your favour. If you paid with a credit card you can also use their dispute process which is usually better than PayPal's.
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Paid through Paypal on a charge to my credit card. Will launch a pay pal dispute then. I was going to give TNT there 10 days but if they haven't found it in a week there not going to find it now. Was initially happy with the ebay seller but when I asked how long they waited before they sent me a new one and claimed from TNT his response turned immediately to no insurance tough luck, I will give you $20 back. I though insurance covered you for damage in transit anyway not them completely losing it
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Is a shame when this happens but things do go missing in the post.
If the seller offered insurance and you declined then your going to be battling
to go the seller if he has proof of postage.
In the case of Paypal I'm not sure what would happen, they normally recover
funds from the seller, if the seller has proof of postage then it's not his fault,
I imagine it would become a claim against the carrier by either yourself or the seller
if he wishes to chase it.
I know I have been through the same myself, buyer usually selects the cheapest postage
ie not registered or uninsured but when it goes missing in the mail they chase the seller.
If I think the case is genuine I simply send another item and wear the loss. As I wrote
unfortunately things do go missing in the mail and there are also dishonest buyers out
there so in the end the honest buyers pay for it in the price of the item.
If I send a high cost order and the customer hasn't selected tracking or insurance I'll send it
via registered or insured post at my cost, that way if it gets lost then the carrier has to chase
it up and make good, I would suggest in future if you can't afford to wear the loss then make
sure you select insurance cover.
Bottom line for you would be to keep the seller on side and hopefully he will make good if the carrier doesn't.
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If your Paypal account is linked to your credit card, you could 'dispute the transaction'.
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If your Paypal account is linked to your credit card, you could 'dispute the transaction'.
Normally if the seller doesn't have a signature you could but via Paypal not sure
as Paypal becomes the middle man, ie the purchase is between Paypal and your
credit provider and I'm sure you have probably waived your rights when you signed
up to Paypal so that Paypal doesn't become liable.
Also there is now a paper trail between the buyer and seller to prove a purchase was made.
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When reading PayPals T&C it appears that if the seller can prove they sent it they will win. However on the fair trading website it refers to the terms on listed on the sale. I was never offered insurance, however in his terms and conditions it states "They are not liable for any damage in transport, If you would like to insure contact us"
My package isn't damaged, its lost. I never entered a contract of sale with TNT he did. I have been polite with the seller but have informed them of the above. I have also asked him to put in writing to me what he intends to do to resolve issue if indeed the parcel isn't found. In return I have informed him I will depending on his response investigate all options available to me, including pay pal, credit card provider, Fair Trading and the Civil and Administrative Tribunal.
TBH $300 isn't such a big deal to me, its more the principle
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Wait and see what TNT do, I would hope if they can't find the item their insurance should
cover the losses.
Cheers
Leigh
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Personally believe TNT are the people you should be dealing with
They've taken possession of the item...it's their responsibility!
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PayPal has resolved a couple of transactions for me just make sure you lodge within the 45 days from purchase
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Yep I agree, the seller has sent it, TNT have received it, according to their system, and now they can't find it, is that not why they have state of the rag tracking systems?? As far as I see it, TNT just bought themselves a solar panel.
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Credit card charter, you paid with CC and have not received it, dispute your CC with the bank. All others can go whistle dixey. That's why when you verify an account PayPal try there darnedest to get you to use funds not CC, they hate the fees and they hate having no control.
We gotta get something for the arse reaming fees we pay the banks.
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Not sure if it true. Or where I read it. But from memory if you have a "problem" of any sort pay pal or ebay must be notified with in no more then a month.
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paypal dispute timeframe is 45 days. TNT have asked me to give them 10 working days to find it. Three times ive asked TNT what happens if they cant find it and haven't answered directly. 10 days is up next Tuesday, from that point I will contact my credit card provider and go from there. Ive emailed Dept of fair Trading and asked for clarification on what rights I have in case it goes to Shit. The ebay seller emailed me back with a much better response last night after I indicated I wouldn't take losing $300 and walk away. We will see.
Anyway 30 days to my trailer is ready, but who's counting right
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achjimmy,
You seem to be forgetting Paypal is in the middle, if you look at your credit card
statement it will show a transfer of funds to Paypal not the merchant.
You have agreed to pay Paypal, they Pay the merchant this is where it gets muddy, Paypal
have received their payment and payed the merchant minus their fee, if you don't receive
the item Paypal isn't worried as they got there payment and fee.
Paypal terms will be if they decide in your favour and they can recover the payment from
the sellers account they will refund your money. If they can't recover the funds then stiff
bickies, also as the seller has proof of postage he has carried out his obligation and therefore
Paypal will most likely respond with it's between you and the carrier.
I haven't checked but I would also imagine as part of the agreement you have with Paypal
that if they don't rule in your favour you have no claim against them.
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slcs78,
I'm not sure what the agreement is between the seller and TNT, but if TNT have lost
the item then surely they would have to make good to sender?
Check TNT terms, if they cover the loss then the seller could be trying to pull a
swiftly and pocket the insurance payout if applicable?
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http://www.tnt.com/content/dam/tnt_express_media/en_au/download_documents/about_us/terms_conditions_March2014.pdf (http://www.tnt.com/content/dam/tnt_express_media/en_au/download_documents/about_us/terms_conditions_March2014.pdf)
Mainly legal mumbo jumbo, but by the jist of the contract they have with the sender, I have no right to claim on them!!!!! Will wait untill I hear from fair trading
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Just to throw a spanner in the works here,,, this story rings a familiar tune... "LHP" "Solar energy store" etc etc etc...
But i could be wrong.. hope so for your sake :cheers:
BHG
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Definitely raise a dispute with paypal before the cutoff day. If it works out otherwise it's all good. Raising the dispute with paypal might also cause the seller to get a bit more proactive to help find it.
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PayPal is great. I don't insure with paypal as they guarantee your item 100%. I've had items not delivered and have been refunded with no dramas. Always pay with Paypal and your 100% guaranteed.
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Contractually:
You entered into a contract with the seller to supply you with goods delivered to your address, and paid the seller.
The seller entered into a contract with TNT to deliver the goods to your address, and paid TNT
If the goods do not arrive your dispute is with the seller: you have no contract with TNT and they have no obligation to you.
PayPal acted as the payment intermediary between you and the seller, so the PayPal dispute system is the one you should use.
Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, just someone who has a layman's working knowledge of contract law.
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TNT have now confirmed the item lost. I've asked the eBay seller what they intend to do going forward. If no adequate response, I will launch a paypal complaint. Have already spoken to my bank and Fair trading. Fair trading has stated I have a case under Australian Consumer Law if it gets that far. Wont share details of seller until I get a resolution
Scott
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Depending on the seller and the value of the item, when this happened to me, I emailed the seller and said 'bit hard to leave positive feedback for you when I haven't received the item', and I had my money refunded almost immediately. ebay sellers don't like negative feedback as a rule.
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It's not really the sellers fault if TNT have agreed it was lost, pretty sure paypal will cover the cost under there buyer protection cover , I'm fairly sure thats what happened when I went through something similar
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Agreed, but I cant take any action against TNT as I never entered a contract with TNT, they did . The seller needs to claim against TNT, it just seems the easy option is to not to at this stage. However they will refund me the $20 postage >:D lol
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You entered into a contract with the seller to supply you with goods delivered to your address, and paid the seller.
Although I agree with this in principle, the assumption here is that the contract agreement includes guaranteed delivery to the purchasers door. I doubt that is stated anywhere and it becomes a problem because it is "assumed", and most likely not clear in the terms. The implied contract therefore is simply the sale an item and not the guarantee of any type of delivery service.
For every purchase I've ever made on ebay there were lots choices under delivery options including paying extra for insurance or tracking. Just because it wasn't offered directly, doesn't mean it couldn't have been selected or requested to mitigate the risk.
If the liability of an item remains with the seller until the receipt of the item is acknowledged from the purchaser then surely it would make sense that every ebay seller would include insurance or tracking in the item cost, to mitigate their own risk?
Surely also if the seller proves they have posted the item in good faith and as agreed they are no longer liable? Otherwise what's stopping people buying items on ebay, then claiming they never received it (when they did), then expecting a guaranteed refund from the seller? Sounds like a good scam and more people would be doing it if it was that easy! Just doesn't seem like a logical or fair process in my opinion.
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So it's fair in turn I'm out of pocket $300?????
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I know this wont help you now, but give Aliexpress a go. They have a no-receive, no-pay policy.
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So it's fair in turn I'm out of pocket $300?????
No it's not fair, but IMO neither is expecting the seller to reimburse you the $300 when there is proof they sent the item.
Unfortunately it's probably an expensive lesson to learn, but posting or having something of value sent in the mail / couriered should always be insured.
I'm not trying to tell you to "suck eggs", it's just the way I see it. I hope it works out for you in the end.
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The seller should approach TNT and get reimbursed for the value of the item then send you another one. It is quite simple and happens all the time. If they are not prepared to do that then go with Paypal.
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The issue is under Australian consume law tnt are liable for the loss to the seller. Whilst tnt hide being there terms and conditions if challenged they would have to pay. The issue is the seller isn't prepared to do that. End of day I've already spoken to my bank and they will process a credit card reversal if need be
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Here is the answer:
http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/Do-Sellers-Have-To-Refund-If-An-Item-is-Lost-or-Stolen-/10000000015247185/g.html (http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/Do-Sellers-Have-To-Refund-If-An-Item-is-Lost-or-Stolen-/10000000015247185/g.html)
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Here is the answer:
http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/Do-Sellers-Have-To-Refund-If-An-Item-is-Lost-or-Stolen-/10000000015247185/g.html (http://www.ebay.com.au/gds/Do-Sellers-Have-To-Refund-If-An-Item-is-Lost-or-Stolen-/10000000015247185/g.html)
Thanks for that, just lodged a paypal dispute. The seller emailed me and because he is a sole trader and only bread winner he can't afford to reimburse me or think he should have to but will sell me another one cheaper !!!!!!!! Asshat
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I wonder how much luck the seller would have in recouping any of the cost's involved when something goes missing that wasn't originally insured or even has a tracking number , If I had to take a guess I would say sweeet f^
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I have been on the other side of one of these where thee item I sent went missing. Paypal put my account in the red and sent me an email telling me to transfer funds to my account. So PayPal will refund you the money. They just put old mates account in the red and next time money hits his account they grab it first.
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Fat lot of good paypal was . Will ring my bank tomorrow for a credit card reversal
Seller's Name: Ruoyu Ding
Seller's Email: info.australiandirect@gmail.com
Seller's Transaction ID: 9NG905926X711554G
Transaction Date: 11 Aug 2014
Transaction Amount: -$299.00 AUD
Your Transaction ID: 8UK68866YV013092F
Case Number: PP-003-375-763-942
Buyer's Transaction ID: 8UK68866YV013092F
In response to your claim, the seller has provided proof of shipment
indicating that the item was shipped to you. Because the seller was able to
provide proof of shipment, we cannot reverse this transaction or issue a
refund. We encourage you to continue to work directly with the seller to
amicably resolve this matter.
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Fair trading has stated I have a case under Australian Consumer Law if it gets that far. Wont share details of seller until I get a resolution
Scott
Well of course you bloody well shouldn't.
THEY didn't lose the bloody thing.
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:cheers: cheers thanks for that dazzler!!
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I'm confused - it's pretty obvious that TNT lost it and they seem to be taking zero responsibility for it???
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:cheers: cheers thanks for that dazzler!!
Your welcome LOL
Flick me a pm if you want generic advice. I work for fair trading and your problem is something of a grey area.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Your welcome LOL
Flick me a pm if you want generic advice. I work for fair trading and your problem is something of a grey area.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PM sent
Thx
Scott