MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: DRB120 on July 02, 2014, 05:26:13 PM
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Im after some opinions on a fencing issue I am having, good or bad Im happy with either.
So we purchased a block of land that settled in February this year. The land was vacant and one boundary was already fenced 18 months prior to the purchase of the land. We met the neighbours with the fence and they were lovely people(and other than this issue they still are). Once the house started being built they had mentioned that they wouldn't mind extending the fence right out to the front, which would be another 25 metres. We stated we were happy to pay half of whatever they wanted. This part was put up and all was good.
About a week after it was finished they came and gave us the bill, however the bill was not just the $1000 for the front but an extra $2000 on top for the entire 89 Metres of fencing that was up. Now I nearly fell over when we realised as the block was sold to us with the fence in place and we paid extra for this particular block as the fence was in place.
I have spoken with the neighbour and let them know we wont be paying for the existing fence and paid for the front fence straight away. He has had a few words to say and as far as I am concerned we have done nothing wrong but would like to hear what peoples thoughts are on this.
I spoke with my solicitor and there advice was not to pay as it was not our land when the fence was put up and the neighbour had taken an assumed risk. They also advised it was between the land owners at the time which was the developer.
Cheers
Dale
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Send Jetcrew a pm
Swannie
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Send Jetcrew a pm
Swannie
Whats funny is this is no more than a couple K's from his place.
Cheers
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My personal view is you bought the block with a fence and you are not liable to contribute to a fence that had already been erected.
Swannie
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Yep. Only up for any additional fencing after purchase.
Part 3, Section 20(1) of the Neighbourhood Disputes Resolution Act 2011 states;
"If there is no sufficient dividing fence between 2 parcels of land consisting of adjoining land, an adjoining owner is liable to contribute to carrying out fencing work for a sufficient dividing fence"
the kicker is;
If there is NO sufficient
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Nah mate ;D ;D ;D
I had the fence battle from hell last year.. >:D >:D >:D
From my learnings and court orders from the judge dude ...
this is in QLD.
They have taken the assumed risk on building the additional 25mtrs based solely on your word, this is what I did and it took over a year and court to get my money.. so both parties should have entered into a fencing agreement..SEE BELOW LINK
http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/180483/form-2-ndr.pdf (http://www.justice.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/180483/form-2-ndr.pdf)
Now I am sure that you are man of your word so they will get the payment for the 25mtrs ;D ;D ;D
In lieu of that document i had to go to great lengths and be very detailed to prove that my neighbours actually agreed to the fence. (15 page court brief) Now I was in similar ..part of the fence was there before they built and the judge clearly stated that he was glad I was only claiming for the portion built since they arrived as i would have had no claim against them for a fence built before they arrived.
So the advice of your solicitor is spot on , how could you have given any authority to construct a fence on land you did not rightfully own.
I believe the court would take a dim view of their actions, my advice ..
1, Right a letter of response.. RE-payment of costs for adjoining fence between xxxxx and xxxx (Property lot numbers) outline your verbal agreement and offer to pay for the costs as you agreed .. be as detailed as possible. Also add
" in respect of previous dividing fence construction between lot xxx and xxx no payment will be made in respect of these works as I/we were not consulted in relation to these works and furthermore held no legal authority to approve such works at the time of construction.
- would love to see how they prove you agreed to it... I had 15 pages and photos and letters .. I think they might struggle considering you did not live there LOL ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Pretty low on their part IMHO
Always hard to balance good neighbourly relationships with these sorts of issues..
good luck ;D ;D ;D
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Your solicitor and everyone else is correct.
Apart from Dazzler's extract from the Neighbourhood Disputes Act, you purchased the property with the fence affixed to the land and as such it was sold to you in situ.
Feign insult and tell your neighbours your are billy not silly and do not appreciate trying to be taken for a ride and that you expect more neighbourly behaviour from them in the future and that if they want a contribution for the fence they should contact the previous owner/developer etc etc.
Let them go to Qcat to argue the toss if they want because it will just get thrown out.
Love neighbours, especially my old Scottish git one who is the rudist old bastard I ever met.............and I should have handed him a bill for half my fence but didn't because I was trying to be neighbourly.
And what Jet just said lol.
Cheers Nomad. :cheers:
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Well I feel a lot better that its not me just being a stubborn so and so.
Jet, I paid for the front fence straight away as soon as the bill was given. As I am definitely a man of my word. I just don't understand their reasoning in thinking I should cough up for something that had nothing to do with me.
The annoying thing is we will move in in 4 weeks time and hopefully by then they have looked into it and realised that I was correct. At least it is a 6 foot high fence so we wont be seeing much of each other if it doesn't get more pleasant then it is now.
Cheers
Dale
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Well I feel a lot better that its not me just being a stubborn so and so.
Jet, I paid for the front fence straight away as soon as the bill was given. As I am definitely a man of my word. I just don't understand their reasoning in thinking I should cough up for something that had nothing to do with me.
The annoying thing is we will move in in 4 weeks time and hopefully by then they have looked into it and realised that I was correct. At least it is a 6 foot high fence so we wont be seeing much of each other if it doesn't get more pleasant then it is now.
Cheers
Dale
Mate I am real sorry if my sentence structure was off :-[ :-[ :-[ I certainly was not implying you would not pay..was more saying that as a myswag member you would be a man of your word not like my neighbour ..
Jet ;D ;D
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Jet
No offense taken at all mate. Just making sure I did mention that I had paid for the front fence as I should have. I still owe you a beer for all the advice when I was purchasing the block. If you are ever free during the day give me a yell as I am out there most days.
Cheers
Dale
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Sorry to go a bit off topic, but............
WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PEOPLE???? ??? ??? ???
Whatever happened to being honest and having integrity?
I hope the Karma bus drives past your neighbours.
Brian
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Jet
No offense taken at all mate. Just making sure I did mention that I had paid for the front fence as I should have. I still owe you a beer for all the advice when I was purchasing the block. If you are ever free during the day give me a yell as I am out there most days.
Cheers
Dale
I drove past last Saturday night on the way to the tavern and actually said to lara that i wondered if you had progressed any more with things.. will def try catch you out there mate..if not you have my address so just swing by anytime for a cold 1 mate ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Jet :D
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Heres a couple pics of where the house is up to Jet.
Brian
I don't get it either, I generally try and do whats right but sometimes you just can't help some people.
Cheers
Dale
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looking the goods mate :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
will try pop out on saturday, my mate lives about 500mtrs up the road
jet ;D ;D
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Nice roof line...looks great!
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My personal view is you bought the block with a fence and you are not liable to contribute to a fence that had already been erected.
Swannie
X 2.
They are just being cheeky pricks
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Nice house mate, they could of out the crapper inside though
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Nice house mate, they could of out the crapper inside though
Yep, a bit rude expecting you to go out there.
;D ;D ;D Could have been beside, or even behind the house. ;D ;D ;D
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Lots of space for some decent solar panels on a roof like that !!
All the best with the fence issue mate... Where possible always best to talk one on one then put the agreement in writing. Going straight to a letter/email is asking for trouble with stuff like this as it will always be interpreted with their attitude and not the writer which is often not one in the same hey....
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Lots of space for some decent solar panels on a roof like that !!
All the best with the fence issue mate... Where possible always best to talk one on one then put the agreement in writing. Going straight to a letter/email is asking for trouble with stuff like this as it will always be interpreted with their attitude and not the writer which is often not one in the same hey....
Agreed, the same happens on forums sometimes.
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Got to love fence disputes. We recently got new neighbours who have a very big dog. On our first meeting they asked if I minded if they replaced the existing chain wire fence with a 6 foot wooden fence. I have to mention now that the chain wire fence was in good condition.
While I'm personally not a fan of 6 foot wooden fences, I understood where they were coming from owning such a big dog.
The following night I bumped into them again on my way home from work and he spoke about the fence again. This time he advised he wanted to extend it by another 6m and if I was okay paying half for the entire length. This is when I piped up and said I have no problem paying half of the new section, but seeing the existing fence was in good condition I'm not prepared to pay towards that.
Like expected he wasn't overly happy, but I did explain I applied the same rules to the neighbours on my other side during our recent extension. There was a okay block retaining wall, but due to the renovations I needed it altered, so paid 100% for it to be knocked down, new footing and new block wall built plus the core filling. (Not a cheap exercise)
Seeing the fence is so big we rarely see the new neighbours, but the other day we bumped into each other and I asked what I owe him and he just asked for a carton of beer towards the new section.
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Lots of space for some decent solar panels on a roof like that !!
All the best with the fence issue mate... Where possible always best to talk one on one then put the agreement in writing. Going straight to a letter/email is asking for trouble with stuff like this as it will always be interpreted with their attitude and not the writer which is often not one in the same hey....
I agree a little bit... if you choose to have conversations in lieu of documents then ALWAYS write down the conversation after it has happened with a date and time..and sign it . NEVER have a dispute resolution conversation friendly or not without a record of the conversation.
They don't need to know you wrote it all down and filed it away. A he said ..i said is worthless in court 12 mths down the track.. produce a record of conversation made shortly after the conversation took place with a date and time and signed by yourself accompanied by a statutory declaration. ;D ;D
Jet ;D ;D
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Myswag meet at Dales place
Swannie
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Just as an aside, are there survey pegs with which to go off so
1) You know the existing fence reasonably follows the line of the common boundary with your neighbour
2) You are able to ascertain where the new fence should end.
Steve
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I'd say of you're new neighbours weren't pulling your leg, then they're showing themselves to be @rseholes. :'(
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I don't know what it is about fences that turns perfectly good neighbours into complete a55holes...!
My neighbour's dogs had eaten their way through to our backyard and after many attempts to patch things up, it was time for a new one. When I approached them, they were all for replacing it and doing the work together. But he didn't want to use a nail gun (on over 50m of fence...!!) and refused to allow my carpenter mate to help. Negotiations stalled at this point but their dogs continued to chew the fence. One afternoon, we returned home to find their dogs in our yard. My wife was trying to get them back to their yard when the neighbour accused her of beating their dogs. My wife is a dog lover and would never do such a thing however.... The next day, we came home to find half the fence torn down and the neighbours replacing it on their own. When I asked what he was doing he said he was doing his half and we could do our half. Then he demanded we do it within a month...!
My attitude took a nose dive at this point and I said I'd do it when I'm good and ready.
When I finally did it, admittedly without giving him any notice but he wasn't home so bad luck, he came home, found my mate giving me a hand as me using a nail gun. This sent him into an absolute rage and he verbally threatened me with physical violence, ON MY PROPERTY..!! I dared him to do it (would have gladly taken one on the chin to see him carted away by the cops for assault..!!) but he quickly backed away and went to his house where he cursed about it to his wife so loudly that the whole street could hear him.
Needless to say we haven't uttered a word to each other since.
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Fences certainly do bring out the worst in people.
What I find really hard to belive though is that on our other boundary there are 2 vacant lots, one was sold and the other still owned by the developed. I hadn't met the owner but managed to track down an email address for them and out of courtesy sent an email introducing myself and advising we would like to put up a fence. I expected it not to go so well but attached the quote anyway to just see what happened. I sent the email at 9 30 at night and had a reply within in an hour saying they were happy to go halves and just give them a call to get the account details the next day, They paid immediately and are really good honest people.
Now they were supposed to be the ones we would have trouble with yet the clowns that have lived there for 2 years are being difficult.
All in all I know Im in the right, don't owe them a cent and have done nothing untoward towards them, hell I didn't even know the block existed when the fence was put up. I will try and keep it civil with them as long as they pull their heads in and leave it be, if not they will learn quite quickly I have a short temper.
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Just as an aside, are there survey pegs with which to go off so
1) You know the existing fence reasonably follows the line of the common boundary with your neighbour
2) You are able to ascertain where the new fence should end.
Steve
Steffo
From what I can see the fence all looks to be in the correct position.
Cheers
Dale
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I don't know what it is about fences that turns perfectly good neighbours into complete a55holes...!
My neighbour's dogs had eaten their way through to our backyard and after many attempts to patch things up, it was time for a new one. When I approached them, they were all for replacing it and doing the work together. But he didn't want to use a nail gun (on over 50m of fence...!!) and refused to allow my carpenter mate to help. Negotiations stalled at this point but their dogs continued to chew the fence. One afternoon, we returned home to find their dogs in our yard. My wife was trying to get them back to their yard when the neighbour accused her of beating their dogs. My wife is a dog lover and would never do such a thing however.... The next day, we came home to find half the fence torn down and the neighbours replacing it on their own. When I asked what he was doing he said he was doing his half and we could do our half. Then he demanded we do it within a month...!
My attitude took a nose dive at this point and I said I'd do it when I'm good and ready.
When I finally did it, admittedly without giving him any notice but he wasn't home so bad luck, he came home, found my mate giving me a hand as me using a nail gun. This sent him into an absolute rage and he verbally threatened me with physical violence, ON MY PROPERTY..!! I dared him to do it (would have gladly taken one on the chin to see him carted away by the cops for assault..!!) but he quickly backed away and went to his house where he cursed about it to his wife so loudly that the whole street could hear him.
Needless to say we haven't uttered a word to each other since.
he would have looked funny nailed to the fence by his clothes ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I don't know what it is about fences that turns perfectly good neighbours into complete a55holes...!
My neighbour's dogs had eaten their way through to our backyard and after many attempts to patch things up, it was time for a new one. When I approached them, they were all for replacing it and doing the work together. But he didn't want to use a nail gun (on over 50m of fence...!!) and refused to allow my carpenter mate to help. Negotiations stalled at this point but their dogs continued to chew the fence. One afternoon, we returned home to find their dogs in our yard. My wife was trying to get them back to their yard when the neighbour accused her of beating their dogs. My wife is a dog lover and would never do such a thing however.... The next day, we came home to find half the fence torn down and the neighbours replacing it on their own. When I asked what he was doing he said he was doing his half and we could do our half. Then he demanded we do it within a month...!
My attitude took a nose dive at this point and I said I'd do it when I'm good and ready.
When I finally did it, admittedly without giving him any notice but he wasn't home so bad luck, he came home, found my mate giving me a hand as me using a nail gun. This sent him into an absolute rage and he verbally threatened me with physical violence, ON MY PROPERTY..!! I dared him to do it (would have gladly taken one on the chin to see him carted away by the cops for assault..!!) but he quickly backed away and went to his house where he cursed about it to his wife so loudly that the whole street could hear him.
Needless to say we haven't uttered a word to each other since.
do you know what his issuie with a nail gun is?
ps All neighbours are a55holes...! best of not getting to know most
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There's an old saying.
"Good fences make good neighbours"
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When I purchased a block of land 15 years ago in WA i was up for half the cost of the fence dividing the the property from the rear of our block even though there was already a fence there - I questioned the local council and yes when purchasing a block of land on this new sub division if there was a fence already erected on the boundary on the left hand and right hand side of the block I need not to pay but with the rear fence it was 50/50 with the neighbours even if there is a fence already there prior to purchasing but we did have 12 months to pay and in that time the neighbours sold there property so we did not end up having to pay.
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When I purchased a block of land 15 years ago in WA i was up for half the cost of the fence dividing the the property from the rear of our block even though there was already a fence there - I questioned the local council and yes when purchasing a block of land on this new sub division if there was a fence already erected on the boundary on the left hand and right hand side of the block I need not to pay but with the rear fence it was 50/50 with the neighbours even if there is a fence already there prior to purchasing but we did have 12 months to pay and in that time the neighbours sold there property so we did not end up having to pay.
Ive heard this happening before, the rules appear to be very different in WA for fencing compared to QLD.
Cheers
Dale
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Have you spoken to the developer you bought the land off?
You never know, they may have already paid half.
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Have you spoken to the developer you bought the land off?
You never know, they may have already paid half.
I haven't directly, however I know he wouldn't pay for half as developers no longer need to. The neighbour let me know he spoke with the developer also and they said they wouldn't pay.
I did have a suspicion they may have been trying to pull a swifty, but who knows. Reality Is they are either just stupid or they are deliberately trying to rip me off, these neighbours are in their late 50's Im guessing so they should know better by now you'd think.
Cheers
Dale
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do you know what his issuie with a nail gun is?
Some old school builders don't like using nail guns on fences. Something to do with the action stripping the galvanising off the nails.
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Just to add an alternate perspective, is it possible the developer told the owners of the other block that they wouldn't pay, and it would need to be claimed off the new owners after purchase?
It doesn't mean you are liable, but I've had a developer tell me something similar when looking at vacant lots - it's a way for them to fob off any question of fencing costs, by deferring the charge until they sell the block. A new buyer might not know they don't have to pay, so they get away with it.
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Quite probably Scott,
Most developers would have clausing in their contracts to disclaim themselves of the financial liability to construct boundary fencing.....amongst a billion other things that they disclaim themselves out of.
:cheers: Nomad.