MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: fridayman on April 06, 2014, 10:33:41 AM
-
As discussed on THIS (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=36297.0) thread, I need some help testing a prospective new venture. The product is called Econokit (http://www.econokit.com.au/). If you're worried that this is a magnets on the fuel line type gimmick, it has been tested by Bureau Veritas (a global certification/testing organisation). Several large organisations have rolled them out to their fleets including Coca-Cola Brasil and UPS France. I think this kit is perfect for the Australian 4wd market too - I will have one on all my 4wd's from now on.
I was expecting some skepticism, but I am hoping that there are a few people that are willing to give this a try and then give their honest feedback. I would like to emphasise that I have personally had very good results over an extended period (50000km).
If you are in the Brisbane/Gold Cost/Sunshine Coast area and think you are spending too much on diesel / petrol, please pm me. I was going to focus on diesel to start, but if you have a big thirsty petrol Cruiser, that would be a good vehicle to test too. It isn't going to cost you anything to test see for yourself whether it works. Ideally you are someone that already keeps fuel records, which will make the before/after comparisons quicker and easier. If you don't have a fuel history we can set something up very easily.
I would really appreciate to some help with this, so if you're in the area and willing please PM me.
Can we also please keep this thread free from conjecture. If you have some relevant/related factual information, please go ahead and post. As they say forewarned is forearmed, and I would like to know was much on the topic of water injection as possible (pro's, con's good to know, etc). Also if you have any questions, please ask - if I don't have the answer already, I will get it.
-
Pity I'm not in SE Qld, have thought of playing with water injection for a number of years.
-
Interested
can the kit take water + methanol?
-
By using this style of water injection kit that is from the link provided, you can add more nozzles, change the size of the nozzle, fit the nozzle where you will get the best benefit EG- direct into the inlet manifold or fitted into the intake side of your intercooler to not only inject the water/metho into the engine but to assist with intercooler cooling thus reducing the intake temp or a combo of both.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Devils-Own-4-Cylinder-Diesel-Stage-1-Water-Methanol-Injection-Kit-6091-/281283734170?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item417dd12a9a&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Devils-Own-4-Cylinder-Diesel-Stage-1-Water-Methanol-Injection-Kit-6091-/281283734170?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item417dd12a9a&vxp=mtr)
One of the big problems that I can see with the Econokit that fridayman is trying to flog off to the Myswag group is that is injecting 700deg plus hot gas/water into your engine and in my mind this will assist with increasing the engine temps dramatically, particularly if you are running high turbo pressures and already have a intake manifold/engine temp problem.
-
Talk to the Hot Rodders.
Water Injection was how they treated high performance flat top V8's.
The more senior ;D members of that group will be able to help.
Those flat toppers weren't slow.
-
Interested
can the kit take water + methanol?
I asked the manufacturer about this and their very firm response was no. So inline with their response I have to say no too. However, I read up on this reasonably extensively and I have been doing some private testing. I'm happy to share my results with you offline - I will send you a PM (and I'm happy to share this offline with anyone else).
-
OK I've finally seen how it works on youtube. I get it.
It's not water injection as we used to do it with our carby fed turbo cars etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-PY3ugEtg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-PY3ugEtg)
Duggie I don't think that the 700deg thing is a concern as what's being injected is only a very small part of the overall airflow in the intake system.
I'm still up for a look
-
OK I've finally seen how it works on youtube. I get it.
It's not water injection as we used to do it with our carby fed turbo cars etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-PY3ugEtg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0-PY3ugEtg)
Duggie I don't think that the 700deg thing is a concern as what's being injected is only a very small part of the overall airflow in the intake system.
I'm still up for a look
I've just pm'd you, but it sounds like you probably already know a lot of what I've sent to you.
-
By using this style of water injection kit that is from the link provided, you can add more nozzles, change the size of the nozzle, fit the nozzle where you will get the best benefit EG- direct into the inlet manifold or fitted into the intake side of your intercooler to not only inject the water/metho into the engine but to assist with intercooler cooling thus reducing the intake temp or a combo of both.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Devils-Own-4-Cylinder-Diesel-Stage-1-Water-Methanol-Injection-Kit-6091-/281283734170?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item417dd12a9a&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Devils-Own-4-Cylinder-Diesel-Stage-1-Water-Methanol-Injection-Kit-6091-/281283734170?pt=Car_Audio_Video&hash=item417dd12a9a&vxp=mtr)
One of the big problems that I can see with the Econokit that fridayman is trying to flog off to the Myswag group is that is injecting 700deg plus hot gas/water into your engine and in my mind this will assist with increasing the engine temps dramatically, particularly if you are running high turbo pressures and already have a intake manifold/engine temp problem.
Keep in mind where this kit is getting its heat from... It's drawing its heat from the engine i.e. transferring heat from the engine to the water when it turns to vapour. This actually has a cooling effect, rather than a heating effect. I tend to see egt's drop by 30-50C depending on how much right foot I'm giving - this is subjective observation though, as I can't turn the kit off while I'm driving to see the immediate impact (I might look into making something to turn it off in cab for testing).
Perhaps I'll air my views on pumped systems and someone can correct me if I'm wrong. With a pumped system it is possible to create much more power than with the Econokit perhaps 2 to 3 times as much additional/incremental power, however I don't think that they are suitable for 4wd touring vehicles for the following reasons:
1 - A 4wd is a relatively harsh environment with plenty of dust, water, salt, vibration, etc. If a pumped kit fails, no big deal... unless the pump fails on and then you could hydrolock your engine. I prefer simple, safe solutions.
2 - You don't need to be a genius to fit a pumped system, but I would bet that most people would struggle to set it up correctly.
3 - To get the best out of a pumped injection system you will need to fit a chip and have it mapped to suit due to the high volume of water / vapour being introduced into the system.
3 - Probably the biggest drawback of pumped systems is the volume of water that they consume. The Econokit uses about 1L of water per 1000km (mine uses a bit less actually), while pumped kits use up to 20 times this amount of water - I'm not joking, go find out for yourself. Where do you fit a touring water reservoir? Who has that kind of space free in their car? People end up using their windscreen washer tanks and re-filling every few hundred km's. I wonder if this is why water injection was only used in drag racing versus other forms of racing??