MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Alexstein on March 17, 2014, 12:48:41 PM
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Ok so here is my dilemma.
Im looking at getting a trailer later on in the year and so far im down to the following 2 models (maybe 3)
Mars Camper Ranger - Fully Galvanised with HammerTone finish / 7 leaf suspension / 2 annex's - $7,000 - http://www.marscampers.com.au/mars-campers-off-road-7x5ft-soft-floor-ranger-series-hs-soft-top-camper-trailer.html (http://www.marscampers.com.au/mars-campers-off-road-7x5ft-soft-floor-ranger-series-hs-soft-top-camper-trailer.html)
Blue Water Simpson - Galvanised Drawer Bar - Powdercoat finish / Independent Suspension / 1 annex - $8250 - http://bluewatercampers.com.au/CamperTrailers/Details/3 (http://bluewatercampers.com.au/CamperTrailers/Details/3)
or
EzyTrail Mawson LX - Fully Galvanised / 7 Leaf suspension + shock's / 2 annex - from $6000 - http://enztrading.com.au/pages/mawson-camper-trailer-catalog.html (http://enztrading.com.au/pages/mawson-camper-trailer-catalog.html)
In reality which is more important? Galvanised fully or independent suspension. There is an option for about $1400 to put independent suspension onto the Mars trailer if needed.
Would there be a major difference on a trailer like this with independent suspension or not?
The ezytrail trailer has a fair few extra bits power wise on it as well which is another consideration.
Thoughts everyone?
Any other alternatives around or under the $8000 mark?
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My personal thoughts are independant suspension is a luxury not a nessesity i would rather gal and not have the thing rust underneath me
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Any other alternatives around or under the $8000 mark?
Plenty of brilliant $15,000 used trailers are around the $8k mark with accessories and goodies.
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Plenty of brilliant $15,000 used trailers are around the $8k mark with accessories and goodies.
x2
Some for even $6,000
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Thanks for the suggestions on 2nd hand however the other half is a bit unsure on 2nd hand purchases like these since you dont know where the trailers have been. It took her long enough to find a Pajero that she was happy with :)
Realistically I also would prefer something new so that i have that year warranty (of sorts) to fall back on. Ive given myself around 7-8k for the trailer and $1.5k-2k for toys.
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Galvanised is more important than ind suspension.
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Please keep in mind that a 2nd hand camper is not the same thing as a 2nd hand 4wd. There is little the naked eye can't see for itself with a CT purchase.
You can always ask someone on here to look at it with you
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I have towed my camp trailer along of the roughest tracks at a fair pace, never had a problem with the trailer nor have I never broken a egg that has been packed in my Trackabout , they have normal springs. I my mind people can spend way to much on trailer suspension and at the end of the day nobody goes for a ride in the trailer.
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I have towed my camp trailer along of the roughest tracks at a fair pace, never had a problem with the trailer nor have I never broken a egg that has been packed in my Trackabout , they have normal springs. I my mind people can spend way to much on trailer suspension and at the end of the day nobody goes for a ride in the trailer.
x2 And also worth considering that:
1) Less to break on a leaf spring solid rigid axle set up &
2) Much easier to repair 'out there' than an indie set up if it does break.
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Thoughts everyone?
Any other alternatives around or under the $8000 mark?
Where you live would determine whether to have it galvanised or not. Will it be stored undercover? Will you give it a hose down and a wash when you get home? If yes to those two and you don't live on the sea then save the $$.
If you are serious about Independent then forget the poorly designed suspension in the photos and have them fit ALKO rubber torsion suspension.
I am with Lost and the others here. A good second hand quality camper is better value. Forget warranty on a trailer. Factor in to the purchase price a new set of bearings, brake shoes and electric brake magnets and the cost to fit them and thats about all that can really go wrong. When you come to look at it throw a pair of overalls on and climb under, over and inside it. If its abused you will soon find out.
Heres a tip - If its got a round axle with brakes then the trailer is at the lower quality end of the market. It shows they are 'fitting brakes' without considering the engineering side of things.
Good luck with whichever way you go.
:D
EDIT
Just re-read the title. "What would I do" - I would buy a second hand Tambo (or similar) 8)
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when we were looking, a second hand Aussie trailer turned out to be the go.
For $6,000, we got just about everything included and added a few items and stuff and have a great trailer. If you look up my thread, in My Camper Trailer, page 11 (ATM) under "BJ and the Bear", I've posted fota's if you want to see what we got.
Best part was, it was only 2 hours away as well.
My advice, for what its worth, go a good second hand CT.
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Thanks for the suggestions on 2nd hand however the other half is a bit unsure on 2nd hand purchases like these since you dont know where the trailers have been. It took her long enough to find a Pajero that she was happy with :)
Realistically I also would prefer something new so that i have that year warranty (of sorts) to fall back on. Ive given myself around 7-8k for the trailer and $1.5k-2k for toys.
the honest truth mate, is 99% of the 2nd hand trailers on here would of been loved for, cared for, and treated better than most wifes. Reasons they are for sale, are for various reasons, like not using it enough, upgraded to later model or van, cant afford it now, circumstances changed so cant use it.
Dont think of them in the same category as 2nd hand cars.
Having said that, there is nothing better than knowing you are the first owner.
Me i would rather buy a $15000 trailer 2nd hand for $8000 than a new one for $7000
My 5c worth. :cheers:
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Galvanised is more important than ind suspension.
Same.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Another vote for the used market here also...there is some out standing units out there, with a heap of mods already done which will save you plenty of $$$$.
Buying a used CT isn't anywhere near the risk of buying a used 4wd, im sure that there would be a swagger that lives somewhere close by who would give you a hand in checking a used CT over for your piece of mind.
Its your choice at the end of day, but I just don't see the value in buying a new CT, unless you plan on living in it day after day on a big lap for example, other wise it get used 6 times a year maybe for a fair outlay.
Good luck anyway.
Swanny
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Me i would rather buy a $15000 trailer 2nd hand for $8000 than a new one for $7000
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Yep. Same here.
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Buying a used CT isn't anywhere near the risk of buying a used 4wd, im sure that there would be a swagger that lives somewhere close by who would give you a hand in checking a used CT over for your piece of mind.
Agreed, it is pretty easy to see if a camper has been flogged, stone chips, dirty/torn canvas, bad smell typically gives it away. It's not like you have to worry about an engine/transmission etc. Get the bearings repacked and you're good to go with some $ saved in your pocket. Best of all their are many swaggers only too happy to help check out a camper for you.
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Thanks for the suggestions guys.
I'm based down in the SE Melb burbs so would be looking at this kind of area if looking for 2nd hand. If and when i do anything it will be post taxman refund (already calculated 7k return so far) so will have to see the options. I'm currently just weighing up the costs of everything at the moment.
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Hi i and friends have the blue water campers am happy with them some little hip cups but had it sorted out in a past life ( job i towed ezi trail campers ( e and z ) hmmm dont like them wouldn't have one pm me if you want im in the SE melb as well good luck with what you buy
bernie
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Me i would rather buy a $15000 trailer 2nd hand for $8000 than a new one for $7000
My 5c worth. :cheers:
Yep that was my thinking. Bought a second hand Tru blu over a new "cheaper" trailer. It's not as fancy as some out there but it just does all the
Right things :cheers:
BD
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Alexstein - Some things that I found helpful to consider when we were doing the same as you...
At the end of the day I believe the trailer features come in second to the actual tent.
The reason we went for a second hand (read affordable for us at the time) 'aussie built' was because the trailer was well made - that was a given - with better quality latches, hinges (when you see how much weight they have to hold up when lifting the packed up tent to access the internal tub you will appreciate the fact they will have to do the job year after year without rusting/tearing away from the base).
As others have mentioned - tricky suspension is ok for a car and maybe for quite heavy caravans - but for a camper trailer I'd rather put my money into the tent.
Number one priority are the TENT QUALITY & FEATURES which make using it a pleasure - and not a compromise - To assist with some questions to ask
- The height of the middle bow so the roof is high and cool for you. If all the walls are vertical (including the one next to the bed if possible - all give you more internal space and keeps your things off the canvas).
- Does it have windows in all sides with quality mesh so midges / mozzies don't make themselves your best friend.
- What about the zips - what a pain when poor quality zips are used and they just stop working.
- Stitching quality and the soft floor thickness/quality - will it stand up to a few sharp stones underneath when set up?
- How about how easy it is to fold it all up? Some new campers sell the fact the tent is huge and the price is low. Great if you have a huge family but really only if it sets up and packs down easy (the less poles and ropes to deal with the better) - you will have less 'robust discussions' about the virtues of camping with the Mrs!
- Think about how much use you will get out of it with a 'happy wife' and consider VALUE rather than PRICE?
Luckily for me - my mates with some quality camper trailers (whom I used to envy when I had my old tent) e.g. Customline, Trackabout, Lifestyle, Vacation, Modcon (yes all Qld made - being we're from Brisbane) gave me these 'pearls of wisdom' and encouraged me to spend a little extra to get a whole lot more for the $$'s.
I'm glad we did - compared to another of my friends who bought a 'well featured trailer' but the tent was just not user friendly so he sold it less than six months later. At then end of the day you're doing your research which is great - go to the factories and camping expos, check out how thick the canvas is and if possible watch some vids of how the tent goes up and down? (you can find some good ones on youtube) Don't rush - sometimes you have to wait to find a good second hand one (and sometimes these manufacturers do an excellent on-road version where you are getting a new and top quality tent with scaled back trailer features - that you can add to later if you get more serious) - check their websites - and make up your own mind depending on your budget and what is most important to you... :cheers:
McTavish...
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Good points McTavish!
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And note. At the end of the day it's a case of buy what you want - not what others would do. It's your money Alexstein.
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All very good points above concerning 2nd hand rather than new. I think McTavish is on the ball with his comment re the tent.
When I bought mine I looked at new CT's for a while and very quickly worked out that to spec up a new low-end (not chinese either) CT to where I wanted it to be would add about 3-4K above purchase price. Started looking around for pre loved and found an older (03) Trackabout for much less than I anticipated and have been very happy (read ecstatic) with my purchase.
It will outlast me for sure.
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I'm sure you are sick of the 2nd hand thing by now but that's the way we went.
My wife and I went to lots of shows and I read alot of forums. We got it down to about 3 in our price range (around $10,000). After all that I thought it would be best if we rented one. I couldn't think of anything worse than buying one and the wife hating camping. We ended up renting an EXPLORER LAWSON OFF-ROAD from lookout campers (Explorer Lawson being the camper and lookout being the rental agentand the guy that builds the trailers). It just happen to be our favourite at the shows but was out of our price range. After a week of camping and the little one loving it the wife was sold. During that week we got a pretty good storm and that was when our decision was made to go the 2nd hand Australian jobby. The Explorer stood up extremely well compared to the other cheaper non Australian made campers. One a brand that can't be mentioned.
I was lucky. When I dropped the Lawson back at the rental place he asked if I was interested in buying. I asked how much he said $10,000.
I got a three year old LAWSON OFF-ROAD with all the bells and whistles. Plus he re speedlined it, put in a new kitchen, put on electric breaks, new tyres and redone the suspension. This camper new and decked out is about $20,000.
The good deals are out there. You just have to keep an eye out.
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I would DEFINITELY buy the 22' Heaslip on Gum tree!
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Yeah a saw that. Shame ive got to wait till tax time to have a look around at pre-owned
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Thanks for the suggestions guys.
I'm based down in the SE Melb burbs so would be looking at this kind of area if looking for 2nd hand. If and when i do anything it will be post taxman refund (already calculated 7k return so far) so will have to see the options. I'm currently just weighing up the costs of everything at the moment.
All the better, plenty of people in Melbourne on Myswag to help you out with a 2nd hand trailer.
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You have us all curious as to what you do - keep us up to date hey !
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one worry noted with the Mars is the welded joint in the drawbar just in front of the tub. From an engineering standpoint, this joint could not be in a worse location, especially considering the thin walled tube (see side pic from site showing front spring hanger).
Lots of good value second hand.
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You have us all curious as to what you do - keep us up to date hey !
Will do mate.
Jon, Which weld are you refering to. In this picture there are 2 welds. (http://www.marscampers.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/p/0/p01.jpg)
Is it the weld behind the box or the weld on the cross beam in front of it?
A
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We bought new but thinking back I should of went second hand.
Especially up here in central Queensland at present, nearly every second person are selling their toys including their camper trailers. There are some great bargains. Most up here have been used once or twice and selling for 75% or less of what they would of paid for them. I know of once lifestyle camper that was for sale with everything, water pump, batts, wiring, full kitchen, boat rack, you name it. Used once for a two night stay in a caravan park here is Rocky and then sat in their yard for 12 months, sold it for $9500. Worth a hell of a lot more than that!
Even if you do find one up here I'm sure anyone of us CQ swaggers can check it out for you.
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Alexstein, I believe the weld on the A frame, between the boxes is the culprit.
Make more sense for it to be straight tube, than cut and stuck back together.
You can run the A frame rails under the frame and back as far as the front spring hangers and get loads more strength.
Also end up with a bigger front box area or more room for fuel cans.
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Do you have an image that i can compare as im trying to understand what your referring to.
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http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=35908.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=35908.0)
Have a look at blackwdw's trailer.
The A frame sits under the front of the trailer and is continuous.
There are no welded joints.
Its almost like the designer intended your trailer to be a lot longer.
And then had someone change it. Hope the inside of the joint is plated, to return some of the strength that was lost by joining in this fashion.
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Im just wondering if the picture shows an extended draw-bar as they do offer that as an option.
I guess its something to clarify with the guys at Mars unless they are able to comment on here.
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one worry noted with the Mars is the welded joint in the drawbar just in front of the tub. From an engineering standpoint, this joint could not be in a worse location, especially considering the thin walled tube (see side pic from site showing front spring hanger).
Lots of good value second hand.
Now this is just my opinion and what I have heard fifteenth hand so don't quote me, but some imported trailers (not necessarily the one pictured) arrive in Australia without a draw bar attached and it is welded on here. It serves two purposes 1) obviously size and fitting them in a sea container 2) something to with import duty and with no draw bar attached they are not seen as a trailer just parts. ???
Something along those lines any way. Nothing sinister, although as stated form an engineering perspective that join is anything but ideal in that location. Like I said don't shoot the messenger and I'm sure someone can verify this. :angel: I'm sure they are fine like that otherwise they wouldn't be able to register them.
Dave
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Here is a link to the website and the trailer that matches the photo.
http://www.marscampers.com.au/off-road-camper-trailers/off-road-camper/mars-campers-on-and-off-road-7x5ft-soft-floor-camper-trailer-gs-14-surveyor.html#product_tabs_product_review (http://www.marscampers.com.au/off-road-camper-trailers/off-road-camper/mars-campers-on-and-off-road-7x5ft-soft-floor-camper-trailer-gs-14-surveyor.html#product_tabs_product_review)
If I was going to design a trailer where it had a randomly detachable drawbar I would go with that design. Of course thats 'IF' I wanted that particular feature.
If I was going to design a trailer where random detachment was not a feature I would do it like this;
http://gallery.myswag.org/gallery/d/8434-2/camper+trailer+chassis+with+drawbar+in+colour.jpg (http://gallery.myswag.org/gallery/d/8434-2/camper+trailer+chassis+with+drawbar+in+colour.jpg)
Or as appears to done with this model;
http://www.marscampers.com.au/off-road-camper-trailers/off-road-camper/extremo-xhf14-hard-floor-australia-best-valueoff-road-camper-trailer.html (http://www.marscampers.com.au/off-road-camper-trailers/off-road-camper/extremo-xhf14-hard-floor-australia-best-valueoff-road-camper-trailer.html)
From a strength perspective an angled drawbar has to be designed to deal with the weak spot that is created at the bend. The correct way is to have it mandrel rolled and a strengthening plate put on the inside. You need quality gear to do it right and there are manufacturers out there that do it right.
Why there is a weld on the outside of that drawbar is beyond my comprehension.
cheers
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I'm sure they are fine like that otherwise they wouldn't be able to register them.
Dave
The regs are about as helpful as ice to eskimos;
This is from the Vehicle Standards 1 for small trailers;
Attachments and Couplings
16.1 Drawbars
Drawbars must be securely attached to a substantial portion of the trailer.
Drawbars must withstand the following forces applied at the centre of the intended coupling without detachment or any distortion or failure, which will affect the safe drawing of the towed trailer:
Longitudinal tension and compression (N) 1.5 x 9.81 x ATM (kg)
Transverse thrust (N) 0.5 x 9.81 x ATM (kg)
Vertical tension and compression for rigid drawbar trailer (N) 0.5 x 9.81 x ATM (kg)
This is from the design Rules 2006
14. ‘DRAWBAR’ REQUIREMENTS
14.1. The ‘Drawbar’ must be securely attached to a substantial portion of the trailer.
14.2. The ‘Drawbar’ including the connections between ‘Drawbar’ and trailer must withstand loads as per Clause 14.2.1 or 14.2.2 without incurring either any residual deformation that would interfere or degrade the function of the assembly or any breaks, cracks and separation of components. Alternatively approval can be by calculation as per Clause 14.2.3.
14.2.1. ‘Drawbars’ to withstand a dynamic endurance test for 2 million cycles:
14.2.1.1. ‘Drawbars’ for ‘Pig trailers’ up to 3.5 tonnes ‘ATM’ and hinged ‘Drawbars’ for other trailers to withstand a horizontal oscillating force of ± 0.6 x ‘Coupling’ ‘D-value’ in the longitudinal direction concurrently for 2 million cycles, applied at the intended ‘Coupling’ centreline. The frequency must not exceed 35 Hz, and must be chosen not to coincide with any natural frequency of the system;
14.2.1.2. Rigid ‘Drawbars’ for ‘Pig trailers’ over 3.5 tonnes ‘ATM’, to withstand a minimum horizontal alternating force of (± 0.6 x ‘Coupling’ ‘D-value’) acting in the longitudinal axis of the ‘Coupling’ and a minimum vertical alternating force of (static vertical coupling load ± 0.6 x ‘Coupling’
‘V-value’) in the vertical axis of the ‘Coupling’ applied through the ‘Coupling’ centre asynchronously for 2 million cycles.
Static vertical coupling load in kN = g x S
where:
g = acceleration due to gravity (assumed to be 9.81 m/sec2)
S = vertical load in tonnes (‘ATM’ - ‘GTM’)
The frequency of the longitudinal and vertical forces must differ by between 1 % and 3 % and not exceed 35 Hz, but must be chosen not to coincide with any natural frequency of the system.
14.2.2. ‘Drawbars’ to withstand a static test:
14.2.2.1. For trailers other than ‘Convertor Dollies’ and up to 23.5 tonnes ‘ATM’ the following minimum static forces separately applied at the intended ‘Coupling’ centreline:
14.2.2.1.1. longitudinal tension and compression(N) = 1.5 x 9.81 x ‘ATM’(Kg); and
14.2.2.1.2. transverse thrust (N)= 0.5 x 9.81 x ‘ATM’(Kg); and
14.2.2.1.3. except for hinged ‘Drawbar’ trailers vertical tension
and compression(N) = 0.5 x 9.81 x ‘ATM’(Kg);
14.2.2.2. For ‘Convertor Dollies’ or trailers over 23.5 tonnes ‘ATM’, the following minimum static forces separately applied at the intended ‘Coupling’ centreline:
14.2.2.2.1. longitudinal tension and compression = 350kN; and
14.2.2.2.2. transverse thrust = 120kN; and
So they just have to say they meet them when they register them. Nothing about correct design. Go figure - like a yes minister episode but enough to screw them at coroners court but then they just go bankrupt and avoid payment.
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With all the spam ads that pop up on my computer regards camper trailers - cookies must have me pegged as a camping enthusiast - go figure !! I saw this pop up and thought of you..
Customline tent (latest design with quality canvas), with a basic but well made trailer... and you'd have plenty of coin left over to mod how you like as you use it.. Battery, LED's, bigger tool box, kitchen box etc As mentioned - plenty of bargains to be had in the myswag classifieds, gumtree and caravancampingsales etc. ps I'm not affiliated with this seller... Fun looking though!!
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/currumbin-waters/camper-trailers/customline-camper-trailer-2010/1037064431?mpch=ads (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/currumbin-waters/camper-trailers/customline-camper-trailer-2010/1037064431?mpch=ads)
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Yeah ive seen this on Gumtree.
Unfortunately its still a bit early for me to make a purchase since im waiting on tax time. This advert was also for an on-road trailer though at that price im sure there are options to upgrade to off-road suspension.
I also noticed that Skamper have a single beam chassis on their offroad trailer > http://skamper.com.au/products/off-road-ranger/ (http://skamper.com.au/products/off-road-ranger/)
(http://skamper.com.au/wp-content/gallery/ranger-camper-trailer/ranger-camper-trailer-chassis-continious-rails.jpg)
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Yes they do as do a few home fabricators. Just has to be done correctly however it can never be as strong as a straight beam. You would only do it if the design requires it.
Cheers
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Yeah ive seen this on Gumtree.
Unfortunately its still a bit early for me to make a purchase since im waiting on tax time. This advert was also for an on-road trailer though at that price im sure there are options to upgrade to off-road suspension.
To upgrade an on road trailer to an off road trailer is quite easy.
But if you do this than the drop of the tent may not reach the ground.
As you are lifting the whole trailer up.
:cheers:
Rod.......
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Yeah i was aware of that :)
So many factors in this camper trailer mollarky :)
Keeps me motivated at work though.
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My draw bar on my Swag Campers camper starts just in front of the axle and goes in one single piece right to the hitch. 100mm x 50mm rhs
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In reality which is more important? Galvanised fully or independent suspension. There is an option for about $1400 to put independent suspension onto the Mars trailer if needed.
Would there be a major difference on a trailer like this with independent suspension or not?
Do you need it to be galvanised? Will it be seeing salt and not being washed down afterwards? Will it be sitting outside uncovered?
Independent is a luxury as others have said. If you do want it my 2c is get the ALKO. Simple, proven and quality. $1500 would be about right.
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To throw my 2c in as well:
I paid about the same as you are planning to spend on the whole kit for just my tent top from Trackabout. Now I'm sure they made money off the job, but I doubt it was enough for them to retire.
So when you are putting $8k of tent on top of a trailer, and charging $8k for it, the trailer can't be all that expensive, or the canvas has to be much cheaper.
Prior to my current setup, I had a locally made trailer with a chinese import tent top. The canvas was ok, and the top cost ~$2k with 3 annexes, but the number of poles required to set it all up was ridiculous. The most we ever set up was 2 annexes, and only when we had some friends camping in tents with us. A single annex plus a kids room is all anyone short of the Brady Bunch would need.
My vote would be to spend $6-7k on a secondhand camper, and save a few $ for any upgrades/extras you might want. A new kitchen, bike rack or tool box might be needed to bring a secondhand unit up to your required comfort level.
Regardless of what you buy, enjoy it. The worst investment is a camper trailer gathering cobwebs in the shed/driveway!
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With all the spam ads that pop up on my computer regards camper trailers - cookies must have me pegged as a camping enthusiast - go figure !! I saw this pop up and thought of you..
Customline tent (latest design with quality canvas), with a basic but well made trailer... and you'd have plenty of coin left over to mod how you like as you use it.. Battery, LED's, bigger tool box, kitchen box etc As mentioned - plenty of bargains to be had in the myswag classifieds, gumtree and caravancampingsales etc. ps I'm not affiliated with this seller... Fun looking though!!
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/currumbin-waters/camper-trailers/customline-camper-trailer-2010/1037064431?mpch=ads (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/currumbin-waters/camper-trailers/customline-camper-trailer-2010/1037064431?mpch=ads)
I bought this trailer. :laugh:
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I bought this trailer. :laugh:
You got a bargain Streetkid! How funny is that... and you bought it - Congrats...
Hopefully Alexstein can pick one like this up when he get's Mr Hockey's refund for borrowing too much tax paid... Scamble your group certificate and tax deductions mate.