MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bird on January 31, 2014, 08:35:36 AM
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... I'm split on this one... I'm more on the side of it being a ****ing stupid decision.. but that is something I've come to expect from Abbott. or Rudd.. or Gillard, or any polly infact.
On one hand we are and have been propping up industries (automotive etc) for so many years - something has to change. It has with cars - Toyota will go next.. another 20,000 jobs.
But on the other hand, there isn't many other employment opportunities out there for people in this and other rural regions. Apparently the Vic Gov has $5million ready to invest in *finding* industries to replace the cannery - so they must know that the doors are going to close, as they are already prepared.
The Gov pisses 25 million up the wall a week on crap.
How about cutting handouts to other countries for a week (or few years I'd like to see)
how about cutting back on perks for ex minsters etc that are just on the sponge now - just cut them off.. if they don't like it - firm faeces.
Then invest in these peoples jobs. But then again how long until they ask for another hand out.. its not like Coca-Cola Amatil are broke.
Give it 10 odd yrs, and what industry will be left in Australia ???
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/goulburn-valley-fruitgrower-fury-as-government-rejects-25-million-funding-request-20140130-31pqy.html (http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/goulburn-valley-fruitgrower-fury-as-government-rejects-25-million-funding-request-20140130-31pqy.html)
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yeah gotta agree the writing is on the wall for a lot of industries.......unfortunately the standard of living and wages we expect is making it difficult for business in Australia, I would rather pay more for product if we lifted the import taxes (or what ever it is called) to bring the playing field a little closer
I am on the fence with handouts..........i'm sure it is more complicated than what is presented in the news.....
goods friends of mine are diary farmers.........its an eye opener when you listen to how much they are paid per litre of milk and the contracts they have to sign
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Agenda 21............. :-X
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I agree on the mixed feelings.
Millions have been wasted on the car industry, and maybe the Government is finally learning not to throw bucketfulls of cash at companies.
However, it would be a balancing act on the money.
If Coca Cola Amatil funded the $25 million needed, I would have thought there would be a tax write off on a portion of that, which effectively costs the taxpayers. If the employees were retained, they would be paying personal tax, and there would be no need for unemployment costs.
These are assumptions, but if only 1000 employees stopped paying $3 000 a year tax, and cost taxpayers an average of $20 000 in unemployment, and the write off for the expenditure from Coke was $3 million, the $25 million needed to fix the place up would be covered in 12 months.
There may well be more information not being handed down to us mere mortals, although it is hard to believe the press is not accurate.
Maybe the paper bag full of graft has not found the right person?
Fully agree on stopping overseas aid for a short time. Let the milk cow generate more milk rather than run it dry and kill it.
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If Coca Cola Amatil funded the $25 million needed, I would have thought there would be a tax write off on a portion of that, which effectively costs the taxpayers.
Sorry forgot to add - Coke are putting in an additional 90 million if the Aust Gov/Vic Gov dished in 25million each...
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the removal and reductions of tariffs have a lot to answer for, yes some tariffs needed to be removed but others never. Countries such as china have unbelievable restrictions on trade, so it ain't a level playing field. As for wasting money on the motor industry or other subsides it's not waste, but investment if done right. The trades and 2nd and 3rd teir suppliers that have skilled up, Companies that once supplied the motor industry now make medical equipment.
The sad part is our government are now full of dumb people, not just pollies but the crats that make the decision. Look at the golden era of Australian manufacturing (ww2 and beyond) and manufacturing decisions were made by industry leaders advising the government. As for subsides all countries do it, even the Germans, tax free zones etc, just needs to be done smart and successive governments haven't done that. The worst case was recently when ford announced they were closing the Geelong engine plant (2008?) and Rudd jumped in with millions to save it. Not one bright spark realised that Ford couldn't continue the current platform without that motor? They were played. Again during the GFC the $$$$$ given to the manufacturers instead of giving a cash back on Aussie built cars as in incentive to buy, it would have stimulated dealerships as well. They just don't think.
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Why is Australia the only country in the world that sticks to the rules. They all sit around and make anti dumping laws then when the other countries break the agreement we just cop it and say we have to be more competitive. Makes me sh1t sideways how stupid we are. And the industry leaders benefit from this to the detriment of our future
gordo350
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Just let me be in charge for 12 months. That's all I'd need.
gordo350
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Agenda 21............. :-X
Interesting reading.. would explain the massive increase in cancer rates over the last 20 yrs.
(http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/br4ed44386.jpg)
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Interesting reading.. would explain the massive increase in cancer rates over the last 20 yrs.
More interesting reading if you want....
Club of Rome..............again :-X
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yeah gotta agree the writing is on the wall for a lot of industries.......unfortunately the standard of living and wages we expect is making it difficult for business in Australia, I would rather pay more for product if we lifted the import taxes (or what ever it is called) to bring the playing field a little closer
I am on the fence with handouts..........i'm sure it is more complicated than what is presented in the news.....
goods friends of mine are diary farmers.........its an eye opener when you listen to how much they are paid per litre of milk and the contracts they have to sign
Yeah how many people would work for $5 an hour or less? >:(
Australian politicians are weak as p iss and try to be seen as leaders of free and open trading system and carry on about an equal playing field, what a crook of No 2s. ::)
None of our trading partners except for NZ I think, have nil levies on imported stuff. Gullible bunch of wankers. >:D
Foo
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encourage more people to buy local by reducing taxes a bit and increase them on imported food.
Peter,
iPad with IOS 7.0.4 using Tapatalk HD
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Yeah how many people would work for $5 an hour or less
Foo
Most likely Farmers
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Coke bought SPC for its profitable fruit juice product, not the cannery
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Why should the tax payer fund a company that is being ripped off by their own unions.
How much did coke a cola make?
I am sick of companies of blaming the government.
The current crop of pollies have been there for a little while, how long has SPC been there?
I do agree, we need to stop cheap imports, blame Woolies and Coles for that.
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I do agree, we need to stop cheap imports, blame Woolies and Coles for that.
If people stopped buying them, they'd stop importing them.
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maybe the underpreforming execs should take a pay cut and support the company instead of asking for hand outs then giving themselves a juicy pay rise from it, its always us the blue collar workers that get screwed because of unrealistic expectations, just a matter of time before spc gets folded up and shipped off regardless of a handout or not
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Why should the tax payer fund a company that is being ripped off by their own unions.
How much did coke a cola make?
I am sick of companies of blaming the government.
The current crop of pollies have been there for a little while, how long has SPC been there?
I do agree, we need to stop cheap imports, blame Woolies and Coles for that.
How exactly are the 'unions' ripping off SPC Ardmona?
I heard Abbott talking a lot of cr@p about that this morning in relation to the existing Enterprise Agreement at SPCA.
One of the key issues he focussed on was the redundancy provisions. This demonstrates how little thought he has given to what he plucks out to justify his ideological position of "blame it on the workers".
Redundancy provisions have ZERO impact on recurrent costs if employees aren't being sacked. So, in the context of retaining staff this would provide NILL additional $ to re-equip.
Improved redundancy provisions, which inevitably come as part of a package of slightly lower wage rises, are valued by employers because they reduce immediate increases in wage costs and can be insured against for future risk - just as occurs in relation to sick leave.Sensible workers and responsible union reps also support this trade off, as it provides long term workers with a 'hedge' against being laid off in th future. It is a genuine "win:win".
Had such a stupid statement been made by a Labor or Green spokesman they would've been pilloried by the media, and rightly so, but a PM from the 'Party of Business' gets away with it, because the Fibs supposedly have 'economic expertise'.
A sad joke at the expense of a country community which doesn't fit the stereotypical image of rural Australia.
In the absence of support by the Federal Government I would like to see the following:
1/. State govt still kick in $25 million.
2/. SPCA sell $25 million in equity to the Industry super fund that covers AWU members.
Money is then available to re-equip the plant, workers have a stake in the plant through their super fund and the agreement could allow for either 1st right to buy back by Coke/Amatil, after an agreed number of years, or for the fund to sell into the open market.
There are positive solutions involving workers which don't necessitate attacking their wages and conditions, however this PM and his Ministers are not sufficiently unprejudiced to conceive of them.
I have never been a fan of Sharman Stone, however e on this occasion I recon she is spot on, and congrats to her for being so passionate in defence of her local community.
And yes, I have being consciously buying Ardmona tomatoes etc for several years.
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I have to agree, with why should we prop up a multinational corporation that can afford to reinvest. The issue is very complex as we have also had a very strong Aussie dollar which has made the imports even cheaper. The unfortunate part is that as household budgets have got tighter as a result of the increase in necessity spending (electricity and food), CPI has been understated by the cheaper electronics and holidays. In addition many people over the last number of years have not been getting pay increases and working less hours which makes the budget tighter. This all means everyone is looking to save money including the companies where they can, price is a big factor for all less likely to pay more for Aussie grown and made.
There is a bigger underlying issue occurring in Australia, with the shutting of the cannery where will the farmers be able to sell he fruit. Only so many places you can go to a farmers market to buy the produce, which then means more farms accept a lower price to the supermarkets or to an exporter. With a reduced price to the farmers and increased costs, how long will the farmer be able to stay on the land. The next question is who is going to buy it, as we are now don't have a big enough market , so either it is sold to foreign corporation (government) or it is subdivided.
So until we realise that in Australia we will need to have protected strategic industries (US heavily subsidise beef, Japan rice, China does it through Quotas) and we will have higher prices for those products or we will continue to lose these industries. Unfortunately in Australia we don't have a big enough market domestically where we have high labour costs and trying to compete with the developing nations.
So in short do what we already do in this group, enjoy the 4wding and the camping put the money back into the local towns we go to visit and encourage more people to do it responsibly. Last thing Australia needs to invest in Australia as many of our companies are now foreign owned it does make it harder.
Cheers
Sleepy
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I have to agree, with why should we prop up a multinational corporation that can afford to reinvest. The issue is very complex as we have also had a very strong Aussie dollar which has made the imports even cheaper. The unfortunate part is that as household budgets have got tighter as a result of the increase in necessity spending (electricity and food), CPI has been understated by the cheaper electronics and holidays. In addition many people over the last number of years have not been getting pay increases and working less hours which makes the budget tighter. This all means everyone is looking to save money including the companies where they can, price is a big factor for all less likely to pay more for Aussie grown and made.
There is a bigger underlying issue occurring in Australia, with the shutting of the cannery where will the farmers be able to sell he fruit. Only so many places you can go to a farmers market to buy the produce, which then means more farms accept a lower price to the supermarkets or to an exporter. With a reduced price to the farmers and increased costs, how long will the farmer be able to stay on the land. The next question is who is going to buy it, as we are now don't have a big enough market , so either it is sold to foreign corporation (government) or it is subdivided.
So until we realise that in Australia we will need to have protected strategic industries (US heavily subsidise beef, Japan rice, China does it through Quotas) and we will have higher prices for those products or we will continue to lose these industries. Unfortunately in Australia we don't have a big enough market domestically where we have high labour costs and trying to compete with the developing nations.
So in short do what we already do in this group, enjoy the 4wding and the camping put the money back into the local towns we go to visit and encourage more people to do it responsibly. Last thing Australia needs to invest in Australia as many of our companies are now foreign owned it does make it harder.
Cheers
Sleepy
Sleepy, the farmers will be ripping out their trees and the industry will be dead. This is already occurring with the reduction in cannery production at SPCA anyway.
However why exactly is this 'more important' than loss of canning jobs, or other processing jobs associated with rural production?
Why is a 'farmer' being out of work any more tragic than a shearer or a cannery worker?
They - I.e. "WE" - are ALL Australians with families to support and anyone losing their livelihood is tragic for both their family and the broader community.
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Sleepy, the farmers will be ripping out their trees and the industry will be dead. This is already occurring with the reduction in cannery production at SPCA anyway.
However why exactly is this 'more important' than loss of canning jobs, or other processing jobs associated with rural production?
Why is a 'farmer' being out of work any more tragic than a shearer or a cannery worker?
They - I.e. "WE" - are ALL Australians with families to support and anyone losing their livelihood is tragic for both their family and the broader community.
B&B, I didn't mean to imply that a farmer being out of work was any more tragic. I also agree that it is tragic for all directly involved and indirectly. Your absolutely right we need to support all the groups affected.
Living in Newcastle at the time when BHP closed the steel mill and the number of people affected was far greater than just the workers at the mill. In fact at the time it was for each job lost in the mill it was 4 other jobs that were lost in the supporting industries. That is a lot of families affected, those that were at the mill got treated a lot better than those that were in the supporting industry (many did not get any entitlements).
I was more commenting on the flow on effects throughout the broader community and into the longer term future for all Australians. You highlight my point about the industry dying, what will replace the industry, this is the plan we do not have as Australians.
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Surely CCA was going to close the plant anyway - they just wanted a free kick on the way out. Just like Ford & Holden. If a business is unprofitable, what difference is $25 mil? If the business is worth investing in, CCA would have already done it.
SPCA has been dying for years, as have the orchards around it... It's very sad, but true.
The Riverland lost its cannery (Berri) many years ago. The juice factory shut down about 5 - 6 years ago, and at the sametime, the regions largest transport company shut down due to loss of business from the juice factory. Whilst it is sad, why does the govt need to step in? They didn't step in for Berri, or Fletchers in our area... Businesses shut down every day. Fact!
Australian agriculture is struggling against imports, and whilst we produce very high quality fruit and veg, it is hard to be competitive on an international market with our wage and shipping costs.
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Why should the tax payer fund a company that is being ripped off by their own unions.
How much did coke a cola make?
I am sick of companies of blaming the government.
The current crop of pollies have been there for a little while, how long has SPC been there?
I do agree, we need to stop cheap imports, blame Woolies and Coles for that.
So agree with that. Stop the cheap imports and stop hammering the farmers. I am happy to pay for Ausie stuff and as I now live in WA, WA stuff. Half the time the big supermarkets don;t even stock a local item cause all the ignorant idiots don't give a sh1t, they have no idea what they are doing buying the cheap stuff so what hope do we have
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In the absence of support by the Federal Government I would like to see the following:
1/. State govt still kick in $25 million.
2/. SPCA sell $25 million in equity to the Industry super fund that covers AWU members.
why not just give the 25m direct to the likes of the CFMEU organisers and Craig Thompsons girls, save a lot of mucking about 8)
Serious ?.....................give the union controlled super fund 25m equity for no benefit ?????
Protection of aust jobs needs to be a priority, we should do that by starting to understand we ALL have our snouts in the trough
Workers, Unions and so called managers need to agree the party is over and there is some serious reassesment of our potential as a country to be done
Having witnessed first hand the ideological based destruction of an industry by Unions who thought they were more important than their members, Im a bit of a cynic
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Will the last worker in manufacturing in Australia , please turn off the ern , close the windows & kill the lights :'(
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Surely CCA was going to close the plant anyway - they just wanted a free kick on the way out. Just like Ford & Holden. If a business is unprofitable, what difference is $25 mil? If the business is worth investing in, CCA would have already done it.
SPCA has been dying for years, as have the orchards around it... It's very sad, but true.
The Riverland lost its cannery (Berri) many years ago. The juice factory shut down about 5 - 6 years ago, and at the sametime, the regions largest transport company shut down due to loss of business from the juice factory. Whilst it is sad, why does the govt need to step in? They didn't step in for Berri, or Fletchers in our area... Businesses shut down every day. Fact!
Australian agriculture is struggling against imports, and whilst we produce very high quality fruit and veg, it is hard to be competitive on an international market with our wage and shipping costs.
The 2x $25mill contributions from state and fed were to go with $90mill contribution from CCA to re-equip the plants to produce products in modern paging that they can't at present.
So, clearly not a case of looking for a 'free kick' on the way out.
Why, step in? Because this is the last manufacturer in the field. Lose this and the industry and expertise is gone for good.
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why not just give the 25m direct to the likes of the CFMEU organisers and Craig Thompsons girls, save a lot of mucking about 8)
Serious ?.....................give the union controlled super fund 25m equity for no benefit ?????
Protection of aust jobs needs to be a priority, we should do that by starting to understand we ALL have our snouts in the trough
Workers, Unions and so called managers need to agree the party is over and there is some serious reassesment of our potential as a country to be done
Having witnessed first hand the ideological based destruction of an industry by Unions who thought they were more important than their members, Im a bit of a cynic
I suggest SELL $25mill in equity to the super fund. I.e. the super fund INVESTS $25 mill into the SPCA business.
Industry based super funds are excellent managers, consistently producing better results than the fee gouging bank / finance industry run funds.
What I am suggesting is a genuine 'co-investment' and the workers at the plant, who even the local MP says are hard working, would have a dual reason to make it work.
I get that some of you don't like unions, but this is nothing to do with either the CFMEU or the Thompson's mob.
By the way, interesting that you didn't include the criminal company managements involved in the current allegations against a couple of CFMEU employees. The boss criminals are always ignored by those with their own ideological barrow to push.
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Whilst it is sad, why does the govt need to step in? They didn't step in for Berri, or Fletchers in our area... Businesses shut down every day. Fact!
Its prop up business and have some form of sustainable economy or pay unemployment to people who on that benefit wont be able to support their family and rent, and or mortgage, schooling, housing and you end up with a country that nothing but a slum. Then suicides go up as well. People cant cope - city or country.
Australian agriculture is struggling against imports, and whilst we produce very high quality fruit and veg, it is hard to be competitive on an international market with our wage and shipping costs.
agree 152389052834959234853498%
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IMO we (people) are our own worst enemy. We look for bargains, want things as cheap as possible. That whole "I can buy 5 of this compared to the expensive one and surely 5 will last longer" attitude (which I am guilty of) means that we buy the cheap Chinese knock offs. No matter how hard I try, I still find myself looking on ebay for something cheaper....
It is everyone's right to spend their hard earned how ever they want. But until we as people just stop buying the imported stuff and start buying locally made, manufacturing in this country only has one way to go. Granted, that is easier said than done given that there are only 2 cars that will be made in Australia after 2016, and I have no idea how to fix the problem.
I feel for all the local growers around her who are 2nd or 3rd generation growers who now might have to give up their farms because hey have no where to sent it. Maybe we could find another use for fruit? And open a fruit canon factory (but then I suppose the Chinese will copy it and make a cheaper version and the circle starts again.....).
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Not sure our government should prop up any industry.
If Ford or Holden produced the sort of car we wanted we'd have bought it at the right price.
No-one seems to eat canned fruit these days, they should've seen that trend years ago and diversified their way around it .. good business management.
Sorry workers, but really you're not the first who have had to find a new job, even I've managed a couple of times. Some of those who "can't" find a new job will stay on handouts but others will make a new job for themselves (and possibly others) circle turns again.
So, who has bought a tin of fruit in syrup in recent memory - clearly not enough
Stevo
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I feel for all the local growers around her who are 2nd or 3rd generation growers who now might have to give up their farms because hey have no where to sent it.
Farmers are resilient people. They generally find a way to get through this type of thing.
People have to eat! Lets grow the food that they need. I live in an area where about 70% of the plantings are wine grapes. Do we need Winegrapes? I know they make wine... Yes, we need wine.! BUT, the Riverland produces bulk hot climate Winegrapes, which are quite frankly sh!t. Growers are paid accordingly.
Now a lot of growers around here this year are whinging that the prices are just about below the cost of production. What some of the good growers are doing, is diversifying. Planting apples for cider. They Cider market is growing exponentially at the moment. Plant almonds, a protein source that the world is short on, and returns are quite good.
Plant vegetables, yes more work, but people have to eat.
Whilst the impact on Shep and the surrounding areas will be quite hard for the first couple of years, there will be new businesses that will be created to fill a gap in the market left by SPCA. In the long term, this might be a good thing.
No one through money a Berri fruit juice to stay open in the Riverland when they shut down about 6 yrs ago, and then the local transport mob with 100 trucks shut down because of that, and no one else threw money at them to keep them open... Everyone was sad, but ultimately moved on to other employers in the area, or moved from this area to another.
Life goes on.
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I would love to see the Gov have some balls and tell importers of produce that we can grow here to **** off...
Then the Farmers Federation and farmers with the backing of OUR PISS WEAK Gov, give the massive finger to coles/woollies and open up a chain of Farmers Markets.
I'd much rather pay up the arse direct to a farmer for ACTUAL fresh produce than some ****in coles/woollies shareholder.
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Shit like this has to stop....
"A controversial Productivity Commission report to open the door to cheap second-hand imports could make cars thousands of dollars cheaper, but there are dangers."
http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/car-prices-could-tumble-if-pc-recommendation-adopted-20140131-31s33.html (http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-news/car-prices-could-tumble-if-pc-recommendation-adopted-20140131-31s33.html)
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I am in no doubt that the Govt should have kicked the tin on this one. Firstly and most importantly what we're talking about here is good production. You can start a car plant from scratch in a couple of years, but orchards take a decade. We worry about selling off prime agricultural land and businesses to foreign firms and then let companies like SPC go to the wall.
Secondly, there is not a lot of alternative employment opportunities in the production areas that will be affected. No job=welfare. But hang on, this Govt wants to cut welfare. It would be far cheaper and a better solution all round to keep the community employed than to simply support them through welfare. Sure, there are those who abuse it, like most systems, and there are those who have been on welfare for a long time, but some people live in areas where there just are no bloody jobs.
I can live with no local vehicle manufacturing but for us to lose another food manufacturer scares the hell out of me.
I'll be in Shepparton on Monday/Tuesday, am interested to feel the mood there.
Julian
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CCA were going to put in $156M or thereabouts.
Julian
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I am in no doubt that the Govt should have kicked the tin on this one. Firstly and most importantly what we're talking about here is good production. You can start a car plant from scratch in a couple of years, but orchards take a decade. We worry about selling off prime agricultural land and businesses to foreign firms and then let companies like SPC go to the wall.
Secondly, there is not a lot of alternative employment opportunities in the production areas that will be affected. No job=welfare. But hang on, this Govt wants to cut welfare. It would be far cheaper and a better solution all round to keep the community employed than to simply support them through welfare. Sure, there are those who abuse it, like most systems, and there are those who have been on welfare for a long time, but some people live in areas where there just are no bloody jobs.
I can live with no local vehicle manufacturing but for us to lose another food manufacturer scares the hell out of me.
exactly my sentiments.. well said
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I wonder how much government money was spent on updating irrigation infrastructure in this area?
So we have one arm of government spending on water infrastructure, while another arm of government shows no real interest in maintaining an existing industry.
If all the trees are destroyed, why did we spend on the water infrastructure in this area?
The other factor people need to realise is this.. Do you really want more and more of your food to come overseas? What happens when our fruit comes fresh from china?
I dont know about you, but i dont really want to eat fresh food from china. Remember the chinese baby formula? And the chinese pet food?
I feel for the people in Goulburn Valley.. Potentialy another victim of blind ideology which we seem to follow in Australia.. A one of $25m payment could potentially be easily be swallowed up by ongoing increases in social security payments, not to mention the personal misery for the people affected.
Ras
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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I wonder how much government money was spent on updating irrigation infrastructure in this area?
$153.6 Million.
http://irrigation.org.au/documents/publications-resources/conference_papers_2009/201009_Session7_KevinPreece2.pdf (http://irrigation.org.au/documents/publications-resources/conference_papers_2009/201009_Session7_KevinPreece2.pdf)
However, it's jointly used by dairying and other intense agricultural producers.
The local Government is keen to get Vegetable farmers from the Werribee area to move up there to produce fresh vegetables for the Melb market.
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CCA were going to put in $156M or thereabouts.
Julian
They still can... It's THEIR business.
$25million could do a lot to our local hospitals, schools or roads around here...
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I wonder how much government money was spent on updating irrigation infrastructure in this area?
If all the trees are destroyed, why did we spend on the water infrastructure in this area?
The govt didn't really spend $153 million on water infrastructure. About half of that was actual water buy backs that goes to the Commonwealth environmental water holder. This is a purchase of water licences (assets from growers). Also part of the claimed spending would be cash and 'in kind' work provided buy the farmers and used by the Govt to Mae the total spending look better.
Anyway, the water issue is a National issue and needed to be fixed. The stoneage irrigation systems of the Goulburn have finally started to resemble 21st century irrigation systems, something we have been using in SA and the lower Murray for the last 20 years.
The trees will still produce, and growers will innovate new markets to survive.
Throw $25 million at CCA now, and then every other non viable business that puts their hand up for money will expect it.
South Austrailians are still Shitty with the Govt for throwing money at Mitshubishi, only to have them leave within a couple of years - with no thanks.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/26/1019441295541.html (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/26/1019441295541.html)
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The govt didn't really spend $153 million on water infrastructure. About half of that was actual water buy backs that goes to the Commonwealth environmental water holder. This is a purchase of water licences (assets from growers). Also part of the claimed spending would be cash and 'in kind' work provided buy the farmers and used by the Govt to Mae the total spending look better.
Anyway, the water issue is a National issue and needed to be fixed. The stoneage irrigation systems of the Goulburn have finally started to resemble 21st century irrigation systems, something we have been using in SA and the lower Murray for the last 20 years.
The trees will still produce, and growers will innovate new markets to survive.
Throw $25 million at CCA now, and then every other non viable business that puts their hand up for money will expect it.
South Austrailians are still ****ty with the Govt for throwing money at Mitshubishi, only to have them leave within a couple of years - with no thanks.
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/26/1019441295541.html (http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/26/1019441295541.html)
Well said.
Given time time I'm guessing it'll open the market up for a small co-op of growers
to maybe have a go on there own. It's already happened with milk.
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They still can... It's THEIR business.
$25million could do a lot to our local hospitals, schools or roads around here...
and if this cannery and all the farms go broke and all the shops that sell farm equipment, farm supplies, shops that sell food to these people, and dozens of other business' that will go broke..
how much more do you extra instantly do you think will be dished out in dole payments, family assistance, rent assistance, etc etc.. 50-60 million?
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and if this cannery and all the farms go broke and all the shops that sell farm equipment, farm supplies, shops that sell food to these people, and dozens of other business' that will go broke..
how much more do you extra instantly do you think will be dished out in dole payments, family assistance, rent assistance, etc etc.. 50-60 million?
This happens in Agriculture, this isn't the first processor to close.
All the farms won't go broke...
The area will get over it - eventually.
I think this is an over reaction.
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'No-one seems to eat canned fruit these days'
WOW. Now that is a statement and a half. Don't know what planet you are on , but walk into any large/ small supermarket chain store, let alone a small corner store and you will find canned fruit.
When did I last open a tin of fruit. Today - to make a pie.
Cheers
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SPCA realise that tinned fruit is not a growth area, THATis why they want to re-tool for modern plastic packaging.
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and if this cannery and all the farms go broke and all the shops that sell farm equipment, farm supplies, shops that sell food to these people, and dozens of other business' that will go broke..
how much more do you extra instantly do you think will be dished out in dole payments, family assistance, rent assistance, etc etc.. 50-60 million?
Again, why should the tax payer fund a multi million business that can't seem to run a business.
Why is it our fault, as a tax payer, to bail out companies.
Sorry mate, it seems you have missed the point here.
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It's a bit like damned if you do and damned if you don't. I don't think a profitable company should be asking for hand outs to bail out one arm of the company. But I can't help but worry where all the people who work there will get employment. So much has closed around here over the years. All anyone can do I suppose is hope for the best.
Sent from somewhere on something with that tap thing
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Again, why should the tax payer fund a multi million business that can't seem to run a business.
Why is it our fault, as a tax payer, to bail out companies.
Sorry mate, it seems you have missed the point here.
Not at all - not even a good try..
The snowball effect is the problem
The point is are we better to have mass unemployment and destroy our credit rating, and confidence (if theres any left) in the country.. while we pay these now unemployed the same or more than the gov would invest in this company in dole payments and other handouts or are we better off to assist companies to employ people...
Who cares where the mothership is - it cant be in Aust, theres no business left here.
The other thing is if this cannery (or Holden - Ford ) stays open, then the 100 small business and 60 medium and 200 large companies that supply them stock will stay open to and no unemployment there...
Its not just SPC that are at risk here...
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...but then you get this
Employment Minister Eric Abetz has defended the Coalition's decision to provide chocolate company Cadbury with $16 million of taxpayers' money in the wake of its rejection of SPC Ardmona's bid for government assistance, arguing the Cadbury funds will be good for regional tourism in Tasmania.
Last week, after a meeting of the federal cabinet, Prime Minister Tony Abbott announced his government would not provide $25 million to SPC, reasoning that the business should be responsible for its own "restructure". This was despite Labor, unions and local Liberal member Sharman Stone arguing that without government help, the fruit grower would not survive, with devastating effects for the north-east Victorian region
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/aid-and-abetz-coalition-defends-taxpayer-funding-of-cadbury-20140202-31uop.html#ixzz2s9ejQouR (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/aid-and-abetz-coalition-defends-taxpayer-funding-of-cadbury-20140202-31uop.html#ixzz2s9ejQouR)
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The difference is in the timing. One before and the other after an election.
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The difference is in the timing. One before and the other after an election.
yea just saw that... Nice buying of Tassie votes...
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yea just saw that... Nice buying of Tassie votes...
Exactly, and also buying votes in the coming Tassie state election.
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http://www.watoday.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/spc-rejects-government-claims-issues-the-facts-on-workers-allowances-20140204-31ynj.html (http://www.watoday.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/spc-rejects-government-claims-issues-the-facts-on-workers-allowances-20140204-31ynj.html)
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Never let the facts get in the way of political spin.. The politicians have worked out that if you say something often enough, the voters believe it, even if it is crap..
Ras
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Agenda 21............. :-X
http://www.cecaust.com.au (http://www.cecaust.com.au)
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Argue politics and whatever all you like at the end of the day it comes down to economics
While ever we have a manufacturing industry run by a union that has driven wages up so high that with overtime and penalties a labourer can earn upwards of 95K in Australia where in other countries same labourer is lucky to make $10 dollars an hour what do you think will happen
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I would have thought that we would want to keep some industries local for strategic reasons. Maybe I am a bit of a pessimist, but what happens if there is a war some time in the future?
Transport sea routes blocked etc etc...
What do we do? The way things are going we wont be able to feed, clothe or transport anything (except by tram or train), including military. Is this what we want?
Or are we saying that this cant happen any more, since our civilization is so advanced it will last forever, just like the last one.
Ras
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Argue politics and whatever all you like at the end of the day it comes down to economics
your right.. they have spent a lot of money on the upcoming election campaign in Tassie, and there isn't one in the Goulburn valley.
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Argue politics and whatever all you like at the end of the day it comes down to economics
While ever we have a manufacturing industry run by a union that has driven wages up so high that with overtime and penalties a labourer can earn upwards of 95K in Australia where in other countries same labourer is lucky to make $10 dollars an hour what do you think will happen
Who exactly at SPC is making $95k / year?
Or anywhere else in food processing, for that matter.
Similarly in the auto industry or associated parts industry.
No one I know in manufacturing makes that kind of money. How many hours per week are they working to make that money, in your experience. Presumably are entitled to pay for working extra hours. Likewise penalties for working weekends, etc, when their mates are going campin, playing golf, or whatever.
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I don't hear anyone complaining about the wages being paid in the FIFO mining industry. Why isn't that an issue?
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No need to worry too much about farming in the GV, most of it has burnt now.....
Nah thankfully it looks like mostly stubble that has burnt. So the local councils will be pi$$ed, none of the farmers will have to buy a burning off permit this year!
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I don't hear anyone complaining about the wages being paid in the FIFO mining industry. Why isn't that an issue?
Cause on a 2 and 1 roster you work 3 weeks of every month at 12hrs per day plus an 1hr of travel time each day you dont get paid for that that is 21 days at 12 hrs = 252hrs per month where the average punter on 5 days per week does 160hrs per month if not less if lunch is paid for
Ohh and contrary to popular beleif you are not paid for your week off
So if manufacturing workers are prepared to work 252hrs per month, compress all that in 3 weeks of the month then not get paid for the 4th week then i may have some sympathy for them
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Who exactly at SPC is making $95k / year?
Or anywhere else in food processing, for that matter.
Similarly in the auto industry or associated parts industry.
No one I know in manufacturing makes that kind of money. How many hours per week are they working to make that money, in your experience. Presumably are entitled to pay for working extra hours. Likewise penalties for working weekends, etc, when their mates are going campin, playing golf, or whatever.
The figure I heard quoted was 75k add to that payroll tax, loading, holiday, workcover (or what ever it's called this week) sick pay and super and your company costs are getting pretty close to 95k.
$1,500x 48weeks= $72,000 throw in a bit of OT and not hard hit 75k, do you know anyone earning $1500.00 a week ? lol
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The figure I heard quoted was 75k add to that payroll tax, loading, holiday, workcover (or what ever it's called this week) sick pay and super and your company costs are getting pretty close to 95k.
$1,500x 48weeks= $72,000 throw in a bit of OT and not hard hit 75k, do you know anyone earning $1500.00 a week ? lol
So you confirm my point. Workers not 'making' $95K at all.
All employers pay payroll tax, workcover, etc. Are you suggesting that these are unnecessary / should be cut out, and if so just for manufacturing workers / labourers, oer everyone, including white collar. Ditto sick leave.
Cutting out superannuation would be madness - as there is no way that future generations could afford to pay for universal pensions.
Do you see superannuation as unreasonable for all, or just 'blue collar' - i.e. revert to what it used to be, 'super' for 'professionals' and blue collar workers could continue to work till 65 and then live on pension. (Now, with no retirement age, they could just work til they drop.)
Sounds like yet another example of "My income is fair, but the other bloke is greedy".
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No B&B the point being made is that Super, Holiday pay and sick leave are factored into everyone elses package but for some reason manufacturing workers seem to think these should be extras picked up by the company
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No B&B the point being made is that Super, Holiday pay and sick leave are factored into everyone elses package but for some reason manufacturing workers seem to think these should be extras picked up by the company
Employees don't have 'packages' they work for wages / salary. 'Packages' are a relatively new invention, what management level get, to let them minimise tax and to succer those with the option to move off wages. Yes, they can look good, but don't measure up to the 'traditional' method of payment.
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So you confirm my point. Workers not 'making' $95K at all.
All employers pay payroll tax, workcover, etc. Are you suggesting that these are unnecessary / should be cut out, and if so just for manufacturing workers / labourers, oer everyone, including white collar. Ditto sick leave.
Cutting out superannuation would be madness - as there is no way that future generations could afford to pay for universal pensions.
Do you see superannuation as unreasonable for all, or just 'blue collar' - i.e. revert to what it used to be, 'super' for 'professionals' and blue collar workers could continue to work till 65 and then live on pension. (Now, with no retirement age, they could just work til they drop.)
Sounds like yet another example of "My income is fair, but the other bloke is greedy".
So I'm wondering what makes a process worker or an assembly line worth these dollars ?
There's plenty of hard working laborers out there that don't earn anywhere near that coin while working in dirty unpleasant conditions.
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One thing to bear in mind here is that the Federal Government has invested the best part of $1 Billion to upgrade the irrigation infrastructure in the Goulburn Valley - the 'Food Bowl Modernisation Project'.
There has also been very significant investments from the Victorian Government and the irrigators to provide a world class irrigation system to produce food for Australia and for export - total expenditure on the project when it is finished in a few years will exceed $2 Billion.
Whilst horticulture is only one of the sectors that relies on the irrigation system, the closure of SPCA is likely to make a large proportion of the orchards in the Goulburn Valley unviable.
SPCA is a value adder to the food production chain and their presence within the 'Food Bowl' is a key component of the long term strategy for the region.
The Government's unwillingness to support SPCA (based on philosophical reasons) has the potential to undermine all the other initiatives that have been focussing on improving the ability for the Food Bowl to be exactly that - a key food producing region for Australia
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One thing to bear in mind here is that the Federal Government has invested the best part of $1 Billion to upgrade the irrigation infrastructure in the Goulburn Valley - the 'Food Bowl Modernisation Project'.
There has also been very significant investments from the Victorian Government and the irrigators to provide a world class irrigation system to produce food for Australia and for export - total expenditure on the project when it is finished in a few years will exceed $2 Billion.
Whilst horticulture is only one of the sectors that relies on the irrigation system, the closure of SPCA is likely to make a large proportion of the orchards in the Goulburn Valley unviable.
SPCA is a value adder to the food production chain and their presence within the 'Food Bowl' is a key component of the long term strategy for the region.
The Government's unwillingness to support SPCA (based on philosophical reasons) has the potential to undermine all the other initiatives that have been focussing on improving the ability for the Food Bowl to be exactly that - a key food producing region for Australia
careful, don't bring logic into politics.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/weve-jobs-enough-for-the-clever-in-healthcare-and-finance-20140211-32g0x.html#comments (http://www.smh.com.au/business/weve-jobs-enough-for-the-clever-in-healthcare-and-finance-20140211-32g0x.html#comments)
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There's plenty of hard working laborers out there that don't earn anywhere near that coin while working in dirty unpleasant conditions.
And that is their choice, not mine, or the governments.
It is there choice to not finish school (if that is the case), or go to Uni, or go to tafe and get a trade.
People can get support to go to Uni or tafe to improve their skills, but many don't want to.
This is their choice, so they now have to live with it.
If you want nice things, you have yo get out of your comfort zone, improve your skills and chase work.
I joined the army with the cloths on my back, half a pack of smokes and $12 in my velcro wallet.
Now I have everything I want and need, and then some, all paid by me, and me alone.
I did courses, went to night school, all done by me.
This year, I am going to get my diploma in WH and S. So I can tell idiots to not stick knives in toasters, and get paid $100k plus doing it.
If you are in a dead end job, and complain, you only have yourself to blame.
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You shouldn't assume I'm an unhappy labourer, has nothing to do with my employment, and I also didn't see anywhere I complained about my employment.
I'm simply wondering what makes these people worth so much more than someone on a lesser wage ? using a labourer as an example, at approximately $15.00 an hour less. Everyone's seen the car assessable line on TV with there air assist lifts only able to one thing on the line rather than maybe walking the the next station to do something else in the process of fitting the car together. I imagine the process line wouldn't be that much different ? Doesn't look particularly difficult or productive given the dollars ?
FWIW. I suggest everyone plants there own fruit trees and send the big companies a message, I also can't see them pulling out until they can package all perishable in plastic, it's the old story about putting all your eggs in the one basket. Sooner or later they be paying a premium for fruit and the circle will start again.
Quote
"This year, I am going to get my diploma in WH and S. So I can tell idiots to not stick knives in toasters, and get paid $100k plus doing it."
Good for you, sounds like your going to make a difference to some numpies future, maybe even saving there life so they can breed.
What pi55es me off is when we all have to go threw the process on the account of the minority and then listen to everyone bagg'n on about how great things are, without considering the real costs and then complain when business goes elsewhere.
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There's plenty of hard working laborers out there that don't earn anywhere near that coin while working in dirty unpleasant conditions.
And that is their choice, not mine, or the governments.
It is there choice to not finish school (if that is the case), or go to Uni, or go to tafe and get a trade.
People can get support to go to Uni or tafe to improve their skills, but many don't want to.
This is their choice, so they now have to live with it.
If you want nice things, you have yo get out of your comfort zone, improve your skills and chase work.
I joined the army with the cloths on my back, half a pack of smokes and $12 in my velcro wallet.
Now I have everything I want and need, and then some, all paid by me, and me alone.
I did courses, went to night school, all done by me.
This year, I am going to get my diploma in WH and S. So I can tell idiots to not stick knives in toasters, and get paid $100k plus doing it.
If you are in a dead end job, and complain, you only have yourself to blame.
That's rich.
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Not really.
Everybody has a choice, and that is one of the great things in this country.
I just get sick of wingers having a winge because they made a choice, didn't get what they want, then blame the system because the bloke next door finished school, went to Uni and got a better job.
Or the bloke that spent 4 years digging trenches, getting the lunches and ends up with a plumbers ticket. Now earning a decent dollar because of his hard work.
We all have a choice, some want to, some don't want to, then complain why they don't have work.
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We all have a choice
If only it was that easy... We all have wishes, not everyone has a choice. very generic statement.
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I like to think that a society is basically judged on how it treats it's most vulnerable people. People fall on hard times for lots of reasons, some of their own doing and some through no fault of their own.
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Vote Winner?
Not all as it seems ???
The future of SPC Ardmona in Shepparton has been secured with the Napthine government offering the company a $22 million lifeline as part of a $100 million investment with the company.
Up to 2700 jobs in the Goulburn Valley have been secured as a result of the co-investment.
Premier Denis Napthine on Thursday afternoon announced that the government had made a $22 million co-investment to secure the long term future of SPC Ardmona.
“This is a great co-investment in jobs,’’ Dr Napthine said.
“This co-investment will deliver a bright future for SPC Ardmona.’’
He said it was great news for jobs and the Goulburn Valley.
The decision, announced on Thursday, puts the Napthine government at odds with the Abbott government who rejected a plea from Coca-Cola Amatil, SPC Ardmona’s parent company, for $25 million.
Had the Federal Government offered the $25 million that was expected, the Napthine government would have matched the commitment.
When the Abbott government rejected SPC Ardmona’s bid it cited Coca-Cola Amtail’s healthy profits as a reason not to use government dollars to assist.
The $100 million will be used to upgrade facilities.
Under the Victorian government agreement, there must be a minimum of 500 staff employed by SPC Ardmona. If the company closes within 5 years it will have to repay the money.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/spc-future-secured-after-napthine-government-tips-in-22-million-20140213-32k7g.html#ixzz2tAcqaCCK (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/spc-future-secured-after-napthine-government-tips-in-22-million-20140213-32k7g.html#ixzz2tAcqaCCK)
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it not only secures jobs for some country workers, but farmers have somewhere to sell their crops..
And it will mean the victorian supermarkets can stock SPC products, and you can eat aussie fruits and not imported cans.
I now think its a great idea to make sure that SPC keeps going for another 3 years.
Peter,
iPad with IOS 7.0.4 using Tapatalk HD
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it not only secures jobs for some country workers, but farmers have somewhere to sell their crops..
And it will mean the victorian supermarkets can stock SPC products, and you can eat aussie fruits and not imported cans.
I now think its a great idea to make sure that SPC keeps going for another 3 years.
agree.. hope its for another 10-20 years.
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actually its 5 year deal..
well the main part is 3 years, but part of the deal is that spc must keep going for 5 years or return the 22k.. very smart deal.
Peter,
iPad with IOS 7.0.4 using Tapatalk HD
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Not really sure what to make of this ???
I think its a good thing, but woolworths don't do anything they wont make money out of.. ???
SPC on Tuesday announced the massive contract to supply 24,000 extra tonnes of produce to Woolies, just months after the federal government refused the struggling country Victorian cannery $25 million in assistance.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/sharman-stone-says-spc-ardmona-deal-with-woolworths-a-win-for-people-power-20140311-34ioi.html (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/sharman-stone-says-spc-ardmona-deal-with-woolworths-a-win-for-people-power-20140311-34ioi.html)
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Lets look at it as a Good Start :cup:
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Lets look at it as a Good Start :cup:
For sure... Hope the promise of 5 yrs support and work goes on for 10x that....
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There seem to be a ground swell of people buying the SPC product again :cup:
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A 60% increase in sales of SPC fruit in the first two months of this year
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/11/spc-ardmona-snaps-up-70m-deal-with-woolworths-to-supply-produce (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/mar/11/spc-ardmona-snaps-up-70m-deal-with-woolworths-to-supply-produce)
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Not really sure what to make of this ???
I think its a good thing, but woolworths don't do anything they wont make money out of.. ???
But that is the point.
Woolworths are making money by selling the SPC products, and SPC make money by sellign the to Woolworths.
Workers in Vic & QLD keep their jobs, farmers can sell their fruit & beans to someone.
And we don't have to eat tasteless tomatoes & tinned fruit from overseas!
In our house we started paying a bit more and buying the Australian tinned tomatoes.
$0.70 for imported crap dumped here, or $1.20-$1.50 for Australian wasn't really a hard decision.
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There seem to be a ground swell of people buying the SPC product again :cup:
maybe we could have a swag trip to the factory
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But that is the point.
Woolworths are making money by selling the SPC products, and SPC make money by sellign the to Woolworths.
Workers in Vic & QLD keep their jobs, farmers can sell their fruit & beans to someone.
And we don't have to eat tasteless tomatoes & tinned fruit from overseas!
In our house we started paying a bit more and buying the Australian tinned tomatoes.
$0.70 for imported crap dumped here, or $1.20-$1.50 for Australian wasn't really a hard decision.
If only the government of the day would be smarter enough to buy tinned fruit to send over sea's as aid instead of cash, it'd be a win, win, win.
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If only the government of the day would be smarter enough to buy tinned fruit to send over sea's as aid instead of cash, it'd be a win, win, win.
Come on.........
Stop ruining a perfectly useless system with thought and foresight..............
;D
On a serious note - if enough people write to their parliamentary members with the suggestion, maybe some power hungry up and comer will claim it as their idea and run with it ??? ???
Any help is good help.
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If only the government of the day would be smarter enough to buy tinned fruit to send over sea's as aid instead of cash, it'd be a win, win, win.
In terms of bang for buck it makes sense to spend aid $ on locally provided goods.
1/. No cost to transport goods from Aus - just imagine the cost in fuel, air time, crew etc to send a plane loaded with pellets of cans.
2/. Multiplier effect of spending $ on goods 'in country' benefits the local community far more than bringing stuff in.
Aid is about assisting the recipients, the exact same reason that most charities no longer send 'old clothes' from Aussie donors, as it isn't about our 'feel good' factor.
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In terms of bang for buck it makes sense to spend aid $ on locally provided goods.
1/. No cost to transport goods from Aus - just imagine the cost in fuel, air time, crew etc to send a plane loaded with pellets of cans.
Think of the employment this could generate locally
2/. Multiplier effect of spending $ on goods 'in country' benefits the local community far more than bringing stuff in.
This might the answer to restarting some smart manufacturing in Oz
Aid is about assisting the recipients, the exact same reason that most charities no longer send 'old clothes' from Aussie donors, as it isn't about our 'feel good' factor.
In this country it always makes me laugh when I see those claiming there the needy or hard done-by, when a lot of the time there wearing a HSV or FPV shirt and Rip-curl bordies and smoke like there's no tomorrow, not to mention a large % have a better or latter model bogan-chariot than a lot of hard working commoner's. I'd suggest in a lot of cases they need to get there values right.