MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: nab on January 21, 2014, 02:58:08 AM
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We currently have a basic soft floor camper and the missus suggested we look at upgrading to a Jayco Eagle/Hawk/Dove or similar. Current main reason is we have seen a few snakes on our current trip, 2yo got within 1.5m of a dugite before my missus saw it...
We are looking at a secondhand one up to $15k so a ~1998-2004 model.
Our main reasons for change are the off ground setup, quick setup/pack up times and permanent bed setup (no need for stretchers/swags etc).
We have a 4yo, 2yo and 4mth old and don't often spend more than a few days (up to a 5 days max) in the one spot. We don't carry much in the way of luxuries/entertainment, we prefer to get there, set up and go exploring. We cringe when we see other campers with half their home contents spilling out of their campers. We must look like beginners with only a table, 4 chairs and 2 of the cheap clear boxes haha!
Had a bit of a search but have a couple of specific questions:
1. Can the beds withstand a good bit of throwing ya leg over? Missus seems to think they look too flimsy. We have a combined weight of ~150kg if that helps...
2. We often only camp for a few nights at a time then move to the next spot, do people always use the bed flys? I just want to wind up and go, half the reason of upgrading is to make it easier with the small kids.
3. We live under the awing in our current, do you do this? Seems like a waste of all the internal fitout haha!
4. We only ever go in our current camper to sleep/get changed etc and do all our cooking/living outside under the awning, even if the weather turns crap. Don't have a TV/iPad etc and hate being couped up inside. Does anyone do the same in one of the above campers? Or once you get one you convert your way of camping to suit the camper?
5. Missus doesn't like the idea of cooking inside. Anyone else not use their inside cooktop/oven?
6. Anyone mounted solar panels direct to the roof? Work OK? I like the set and forget approach, I don't want to be changing the panels all day chasing the sun. Only have a 32L fridge, 2x LED lights and a water pump with no plans to expand. Car takes care of the rest.
7. How does the Outback model go on gravel/corrugations? Dust a major problem? Not planning on the CSR, just the usual crap roads that lead to beaches in country towns etc.
Thanks in advance, am currently touring so may not check back here for a week or so.
Cheers
Nick
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We currently have a basic soft floor camper and the missus suggested we look at upgrading to a Jayco Eagle/Hawk/Dove or similar. Current main reason is we have seen a few snakes on our current trip, 2yo got within 1.5m of a dugite before my missus saw it...
We are looking at a secondhand one up to $15k so a ~1998-2004 model.
Our main reasons for change are the off ground setup, quick setup/pack up times and permanent bed setup (no need for stretchers/swags etc).
We have a 4yo, 2yo and 4mth old and don't often spend more than a few days (up to a 5 days max) in the one spot. We don't carry much in the way of luxuries/entertainment, we prefer to get there, set up and go exploring. We cringe when we see other campers with half their home contents spilling out of their campers. We must look like beginners with only a table, 4 chairs and 2 of the cheap clear boxes haha!
Had a bit of a search but have a couple of specific questions:
1. Can the beds withstand a good bit of throwing ya leg over? Missus seems to think they look too flimsy. We have a combined weight of ~150kg if that helps...
Yep >:D
2. We often only camp for a few nights at a time then move to the next spot, do people always use the bed flys? I just want to wind up and go, half the reason of upgrading is to make it easier with the small kids.
You don't have to use bed flies when the weather is good but in wet weather the bed flies allow you to pack the bed in dry and not get your bedding wet
3. We live under the awing in our current, do you do this? Seems like a waste of all the internal fitout haha!
Awning is great, gives you shade and a little extra dry area if wet. With 5 in it there won't be a lot of room!
4. We only ever go in our current camper to sleep/get changed etc and do all our cooking/living outside under the awning, even if the weather turns crap. Don't have a TV/iPad etc and hate being couped up inside. Does anyone do the same in one of the above campers? Or once you get one you convert your way of camping to suit the camper?
Nope 99% of cooking is outside on the bbq! it's up to you how you use it
5. Missus doesn't like the idea of cooking inside. Anyone else not use their inside cooktop/oven?
Use it occasionally for pasta... No smell
6. Anyone mounted solar panels direct to the roof? Work OK? I like the set and forget approach, I don't want to be changing the panels all day chasing the sun. Only have a 32L fridge, 2x LED lights and a water pump with no plans to expand. Car takes care of the rest.
Only have portable dollar
7. How does the Outback model go on gravel/corrugations? Dust a major problem? Not planning on the CSR, just the usual crap roads that lead to beaches in country towns etc.
Drive to conditions, you will get dust but you need to block fridge and door vents
Thanks in advance, am currently touring so may not check back here for a week or so.
Cheers
Nick
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1. Can the beds withstand a good bit of throwing ya leg over? Missus seems to think they look too flimsy. We have a combined weight of ~150kg if that helps...
I think the rating on ours is rated to 300 or 350kg and handles everything ;D
2. We often only camp for a few nights at a time then move to the next spot, do people always use the bed flys? I just want to wind up and go, half the reason of upgrading is to make it easier with the small kids.
Yep but if it looks like rain or damp conditions you can just drape them over the beds for protection
3. We live under the awing in our current, do you do this? Seems like a waste of all the internal fitout haha!
I would say most owners live mostly outside. It is nice knowing if it's pissing down and windy you have the option to go inside.
4. We only ever go in our current camper to sleep/get changed etc and do all our cooking/living outside under the awning, even if the weather turns crap. Don't have a TV/iPad etc and hate being couped up inside. Does anyone do the same in one of the above campers? Or once you get one you convert your way of camping to suit the camper?
See the answer to Question 3. if your kids are like ours it is nice to have somewhere for them to go for a bit of quiet drawing or whatever while you enjoy the outdoors and a beverage :cheers:
5. Missus doesn't like the idea of cooking inside. Anyone else not use their inside cooktop/oven?
We do 90% of our cooking outside and you will probably find most secondhand campers have had very little use of the inside cooktop and grill. Our grill is only used as a storage spot and has never been turned on
6. Anyone mounted solar panels direct to the roof? Work OK? I like the set and forget approach, I don't want to be changing the panels all day chasing the sun. Only have a 32L fridge, 2x LED lights and a water pump with no plans to expand. Car takes care of the rest.
Personally don't have solar but have seen a few roof mounted setups and from 2013 onwards the Outbacks come prewired for roof mounted solar as an option so it must work to a degree
7. How does the Outback model go on gravel/corrugations? Dust a major problem? Not planning on the CSR, just the usual crap roads that lead to beaches in country towns etc.
We have travelled a far bit on gravel with little dust or issues. Some cover the vents but we have been ok. If you drive to the conditions and the camper is in good condition you should be fine. Stone damage on the front is our only drama and that could be sorted with a guard or rock tamer
Thanks in advance, am currently touring so may not check back here for a week or so.
Cheers
Nick
Hope that helps you a little. Everyone is different and everyone has different requirements and expectations. From our point of view our 2012 Outback Swan is fine for what we want and need now........in the future that may change
Dave
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We currently have a basic soft floor camper and the missus suggested we look at upgrading to a Jayco Eagle/Hawk/Dove or similar. Current main reason is we have seen a few snakes on our current trip, 2yo got within 1.5m of a dugite before my missus saw it...
We are looking at a secondhand one up to $15k so a ~1998-2004 model.
Our main reasons for change are the off ground setup, quick setup/pack up times and permanent bed setup (no need for stretchers/swags etc).
We have a 4yo, 2yo and 4mth old and don't often spend more than a few days (up to a 5 days max) in the one spot. We don't carry much in the way of luxuries/entertainment, we prefer to get there, set up and go exploring. We cringe when we see other campers with half their home contents spilling out of their campers. We must look like beginners with only a table, 4 chairs and 2 of the cheap clear boxes haha!
Had a bit of a search but have a couple of specific questions:
1. Can the beds withstand a good bit of throwing ya leg over? Missus seems to think they look too flimsy. We have a combined weight of ~150kg if that helps...
Yes they can, but didn't you mention you had kids???
2. We often only camp for a few nights at a time then move to the next spot, do people always use the bed flys? I just want to wind up and go, half the reason of upgrading is to make it easier with the small kids.
As others said, we only put up if weather looks bad, and they are really quick to pack up anyway.
3. We live under the awing in our current, do you do this? Seems like a waste of all the internal fitout haha!
Heck no, the storage is fantastic, we did a month in the outback and had spare cupboard space. Kitchen is great for morning coffee's etc, and great if mozzies or flys are bad
4. We only ever go in our current camper to sleep/get changed etc and do all our cooking/living outside under the awning, even if the weather turns crap. Don't have a TV/iPad etc and hate being couped up inside. Does anyone do the same in one of the above campers? Or once you get one you convert your way of camping to suit the camper?
No you wont change, you will just enjoy the choice and freedom
5. Missus doesn't like the idea of cooking inside. Anyone else not use their inside cooktop/oven?
again great for kettle, boiling beans, carrots etc while BBQ is going.
6. Anyone mounted solar panels direct to the roof? Work OK? I like the set and forget approach, I don't want to be changing the panels all day chasing the sun. Only have a 32L fridge, 2x LED lights and a water pump with no plans to expand. Car takes care of the rest.
You can, but I prefer to use racking - its cheap and doesnt allow dirt to accumulate around the panel and limits water ingress, also allow some airflow under on a hot day.
7. How does the Outback model go on gravel/corrugations? Dust a major problem? Not planning on the CSR, just the usual crap roads that lead to beaches in country towns etc.
We've done just about every desert in the country in ours and a heck of a lot of Queensland, we had to put protection around the shocks and gas taps, but no damage in 4.5 years.
We made dust covers with nutserts that go over the vents and have never had a problem.
Thanks in advance, am currently touring so may not check back here for a week or so.
Cheers
Nick
Shame your budget doesn't stretch a bit further, we're selling our 2009 outback Hawk......
cheers
Brian
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We have solar on the roof of our 2013 Penguin (120w panel with 100amp/h battery). Works well when we are free camping, runs the lights, pump and charges the mobile phones.
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your missus lets you throw the leg that nice of her. if mine found out she would hit the roof.
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Just shot you a pm.
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Hey nab, we're also on the road in a soft floor and been tossing up about getting something with a hard floor (Jayco type or caravan) for ease of pulling up for an overnighter and less set up. We've spent the last week and a half in a caravan park and looking at a few different setups and timing them. The Jaycos seem to be not much quicker to set up, particularly when there were three adults on two of those setups. They took 35 mins to setup...we take ~45 with annexe as well. Longer if I'm stuck with cranky kids or a hungry baby. We're thinking the best option for us would be a caravan with three young kids. Try to watch people setting up/packing up and time them before you decide!
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35 mins to set up - thats twice as long as it takes us including putting the annex up. Maybe it's new to them and they haven't got their routine set just yet. Do it a few times and you know what needs doing when. Its all trial and error. Packing away can take us up to 35mins though.
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After many nights away, I can wind up, do the bed flies ( with the poles & Guy ropes), the awning & the rubber mat flooring in 20-25 minutes depending how many times I stop for a refreshment :). Set up of full annex, awning tables, BBQ etc takes about 45-60 minutes.
Swannie
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DUST: If it's a concern, it's relatively simple to make up dust covers for the vented door and the fridge vent panels. I've seen various methods ranging from hard hinged boards, to canvas in sailtrack, to a strip of velcro holding a piece of plastic tarp cut to size.
SOLAR: If you permanently mount the panels on the roof you need to park the camper in the sun. I'd stick with portable panels for versatility and the ability to protect them if it hails. But you could make up some simple slide-in racks for the roof and pin the panels in place. This makes them easy to slide out if required.
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I rarely put the bed flys up, and to me set up is everything I/we do together - the finer things like setting up table/tv/clothes line etc I leave to the wife...........its my way of assisting her to manage her OCD.
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I use the flys more to keep sap and birdShit off the beds, or for some heat reduction in hot weather/direct sun.
Jayco bed ends have a vinyl upper surface (flocked inside) so it's pretty rugged.
Back in the day no-one knew what bed flys were, let alone having bagged flys permanently attached.
Our first Jayco (1985) came with home made flys which were nothing more than a silver tarp cut in half with a rope sewn along one edge and a couple of brass eyelets banged in the corners. The seller's missus did it on her Janome at home.
We never thought of using poles and simply wrapped the flys around the ends secured with bungee cord under the beds.
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Ditto for the general advice here and you didn't really think Jayco make beds that collapse on people with the number of ambulance chasers around nowadays?(yes there is the obesity problem!!) We cook inside mostly on the road because it's convenient just like home but naturally with vent and windows open and it sure beats flies, European wasps, etc.
The bed flies we inherited are HD white polytarp and white shadecloth sides and rope feed onto the tracks(wait for the vid when the bloke releases the flies satage) and like others we drape them over mostly but can setup poles for longer stays. Didn't have flies on the 80s one and I've realised the benefits, particularly with the removable ones I inherited with the 03 Dove. Yes the poly cops any bird poop or tree sap but it also cops all the dewy mornings and they can be folded away wet with no probs with mould and also you can pack away the beds dry under them if it's raining. In that regard here's a video of setup but note particularly the way he folds the canvas over the beds at the end as I've learned it dams any stray water and ensures the canvas never gets caught sliding the beds in-
Setting Up Your Jayco Camper Trailer (Including Awnings & Annexes) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20Id-M3ArCM#)
Oh and never, ever slide the beds in without the roof fully up or you'll be sorry.
Yes we have the annexe with ours but haven't used it because it has a Fiamma awning which is a breeze compared with that annexe setup as the vid shows. Yes both our road Jaycos handled corro roads and places that would make Jayco frown and the only reason you'd choose the outback versions are for clearance but just where are you going solo now with kids anyway? That's why you're getting with the number one camper now because they offer the convenience of a big van in a compact, easy tow and store package.
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Was looking for a video I'd seen that really showed the bloke knew what he was doing but can't find it so here's another one for comparison and a quiz for all you old Jayco hands. This bloke gets something right the first bloke didn't, but then stuffs up obviously with something the first bloke got right, although I'm going to question the order of one thing he did that we didn't see at all in this second vid.
Bear in mind this setup neatly avoids bed end flies and annexe but concentrate on the base Jayco setting up and just where's Wally in the 2 vids-
How To Setup a Jayco Camper.avi (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzMDw7KZtNM#ws)
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As soon as he wound the roof up he didn't install the 2 safety poles on each end for the roof. It appeared he did set the top of the door correctly into the bottom as you could still see a gap and the pin wasn't in correctly
Swannie.
He also didn't have a beer in his hand while setting up
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Hey Swannie ... whats these safety pole gizmos of which you speak. We had a Finch and never had these pole of safetitude.
The only poles of importance were the bed end supports.
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Hey Swannie ... whats these safety pole gizmos of which you speak. We had a Finch and never had these pole of safetitude.
The only poles of importance were the bed end supports.
They are basically two poles that wedge between the opened roof and base and sit next to the telescopic uprights, so in the event a cable snaps or the winch releases the roof won't come tumbling down. And to take some pressure of them. They only started supplying them from late 2000's from memory. 09/10
Cheers BD
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Nick
We 'upgraded' from a soft floor a few years ago to an 03 Finch. Your camping sounds a bit like mine (we live outside, we cook outside) except we have a few luxuries and only 2 kids (11 and 8 ). Here are my observations:
- they aren't light. Ours is the second smallest and is a tonne empty;
- for a small van, you get a heap of space, and the kids beds are right at the other end so that aren't right on top of you;
- it is great being up and out of the water when it's raining and the critters when it's not;
- the inside table is great when it is raining for the odd Uno game, and as a quiet spot to send the kids when they need it;
- the beds are surprisingly sturdy, but a bit hard (and the Finch's are a tad narrow). We have used a eggshell type foam layer on top which made a heap of difference.
- the build quality is not great and it doesn't take much to break things or for scuffs to start appearing. However, most things are easily fixed.
- we had all sorts of problems organising a spot for our clothes (this is now fixed, see next point).
- we never cooked, nor did the washing up inside. So we removed the oven and sink and put in a new bench, which is now a great spot to line up all the clothes bags. We also gained some extra storage. This mod is reversible for when we come to sell it;
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=25726 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=25726)
- our main issue, which I haven't resolved, is that all the cooking gear, cutlery and crockery and the gas fridge are inside, and we cook outside. This requires heaps of trips in and out. This sh1ts me to tears, particularly because my wife insists on putting everything away after washing up. I have dreamt of putting some sort of slide out on the side with all of this gear in it, but this would require a fair bit work, much of which is irreversible. A bit like the one Toolman did.
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=4780 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=4780)
So overall, the Finch was a big step up from our soft floor, but is short of my ideal camper. My ideal would be a Finch (or something a little lighter) with a couple of long pullouts with a kitchen and a fridge slide.
There are three 'settings' for the bed end flys: still in their bag, out but no poles and out with poles. Ours only come out for two or more nights and only get poles if it gets really hot. They not only protect the canvas, but also make a huge difference to temperature in the bed ends.
Also, I have mounted a slide out solar panel on the roof rack so that I can leave it there when in the sun or remove it when I am not.
http://www.campingaustralia.org/showthread.php?t=787 (http://www.campingaustralia.org/showthread.php?t=787)
I have an on-road version, but I have given it a spring over conversion to lift it up a bit. I am now considering going for a straight axle just for a little more lift.
Cheers
JB
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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We did 4 months in one with 3 kids.
Our 4th was made in one :)
Secret IMO is to keep it simple with only a roll out fiamma style awning. Otherwise the setup times become similar to soft floor ((IME).
Add a pull out BBQ to cook outside.
Not sure whether the off road is really needed just spring over axle it. I feel if u need more off road then something else like a TVAn makes more sense.
Have fun.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
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Thanks for the great replies, just what I was looking for! The missus will be happy with that. There are some awesome tips there and the links are great. The missus wonders why I am always on this site...
Just sold my soft floor camper last night, the missus was more upset than I was! Checked out a 1995 Hawk at a yard yesterday and were pretty happy with the layout. A couple more Qs:
- Where do you store the clothes, under the seats? Is it a pain in the bum to access? I questioned the salesman yesterday and his response was you only take a couple shorts and t-shirts, how much room do you need? He obviously hasn't camped in winter with young kids, let alone ones that are toilet training haha! I like your idea JB.
- I'm 6'6" and the internal benches look to be about 3cm off the floor, I reckon I'll need to be on my knees to use them. Does anyone else find this? Any ideas? My missus is 5'2" and even she finds them way too low.
- If you just do a quick overnight stop (eg late night drive than an early start) where you you put all the tables/chairs/stuff that is stored in the walkway?
- The draw bars look pretty short, were longer ones an option when new?
wmarsb, she is the one that asked and those were her words haha!
JB, I reckon your idea of a couple of slide out draws would be awesome.
Just as a side thought, what other campers are there that aren't Jaycos but are similar setups? I have seen a Coromal version but are there any others worth looking at in my $15k budget?
Cheers
Nick
(sorry for the late reply, thought I had already posted ???)
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A couple more Qs:
- Where do you store the clothes, under the seats? Is it a pain in the bum to access? I questioned the salesman yesterday and his response was you only take a couple shorts and t-shirts, how much room do you need? He obviously hasn't camped in winter with young kids, let alone ones that are toilet training haha! I like your idea JB.
- I'm 6'6" and the internal benches look to be about 3cm off the floor, I reckon I'll need to be on my knees to use them. Does anyone else find this? Any ideas? My missus is 5'2" and even she finds them way too low.
- If you just do a quick overnight stop (eg late night drive than an early start) where you you put all the tables/chairs/stuff that is stored in the walkway?
- The draw bars look pretty short, were longer ones an option when new?
Cheers
Nick
(sorry for the late reply, thought I had already posted ???)
Nick:
1. We use plastic stackable tubs for clothes. My kids are older but basically it's one tub each and if it doesn't fit, it doesn't go. However my Jayco is old and grubby so if you get one which is tidier under the seats, no reason you can't store clothing under the seats. Or leave the bags in the vehicle.
2. Yes, for me, at 6'2 with a dodgy back, I find the benches painful. On the upside, the Jayco roof is much higher than most full/pop top caravans. If I have to work inside, I'll usually sit at the table so I don't have to stoop. Outside we have camp tables that are much higher, and use basic plastic stools ($14 from Clark Rubber) which are easy to slip on and off without moving the stool or upsetting a rickity table.
3. I transfer a lot of gear into the Landcruiser or just toss it under the camper. It does take a while to sort out what you really need to take, and where it's stored, but I find there is quite a lot of space in a Jayco type camper. The risk is that you think "Oh, we have the Jayco, plenty of room, just toss it inside...". If you think you have storage/carraige problems now, wait till you have to take a pushbike for each family member............. >:(
4. Plenty of people have lengthened the drawbar. Pretty easy to do, especially if you don't have hydraulic brakes like I do . They kept the drawbar short mainly so these things would fit in a standard 6M long garage when packed. Simplest fix is to run an additional piece of RHSfrom under the chassis, through the existing drawbar where the hitch sits now, and extend it out as far as you need. Then refit the hitch onto this single piece of RHS. You end up with a Y shaped setup in place of the old V shape, if that makes sense.
5. "wmarsb" ??? You got me on that one ???
Cheers
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Thanks for the great replies, just what I was looking for! The missus will be happy with that. There are some awesome tips there and the links are great. The missus wonders why I am always on this site...
Just sold my soft floor camper last night, the missus was more upset than I was! Checked out a 1995 Hawk at a yard yesterday and were pretty happy with the layout. A couple more Qs:
- Where do you store the clothes, under the seats? Is it a pain in the bum to access? I questioned the salesman yesterday and his response was you only take a couple shorts and t-shirts, how much room do you need? He obviously hasn't camped in winter with young kids, let alone ones that are toilet training haha! I like your idea JB.
- I'm 6'6" and the internal benches look to be about 3cm off the floor, I reckon I'll need to be on my knees to use them. Does anyone else find this? Any ideas? My missus is 5'2" and even she finds them way too low.
- If you just do a quick overnight stop (eg late night drive than an early start) where you you put all the tables/chairs/stuff that is stored in the walkway?
- The draw bars look pretty short, were longer ones an option when new?
wmarsb, she is the one that asked and those were her words haha!
JB, I reckon your idea of a couple of slide out draws would be awesome.
Just as a side thought, what other campers are there that aren't Jaycos but are similar setups? I have seen a Coromal version but are there any others worth looking at in my $15k budget?
Cheers
Nick
(sorry for the late reply, thought I had already posted ???)
SWMBO and I haven't been lucky enough to make any mini mes yet so we use the single bed and our suitcase to store our clothes. I recon it would get annoying lifting up all the cushions to get clothes every time. We have items stored under the couch that don't need to be pulled out very often.
I'm not gifted in the height department and I do find the benches a little low. It's only an issue when I wash up and bending down on that subtle angel for awhile.
I found with ours we had a heap of gear stored inside when we first bought ours. I've managed to cull alot of it now to our hot water system, toliet, shower tent, gazebo and chairs. If we don't use anything it's stored securely in the car.
Our swift is the baby of the lot and runs a standard size draw bar and it barely fits in a our garage. So think about how and where you will store it and will it fit.
We love our swift outback. Hope you find one that suits you and your family
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SAFETY POLES:
Couldn't be easier. Here's what I did. I found some pine in the shed which is a neat fit up into the roof (25x50mm??).
I dressed it so no splinters, rounded the edges to protect canvas, then protected it from the weather (I used Penetrol). Use something clear to paint it so you don't mark the canvas. I wouldn't use oil for the same reason
Then screwed a length of double-sided velcro at the lower end to hold it in place (probably unnecessary as they seem to stay in place without it.
I have four, but two at opposing corners will do for safety purposes. I just don't trust my 34yo roof system ;D
By rights all poles should be the same length and fit the same at each corner. Mine don't (variance of 20mm) so I'll eventually use them to re-rig the roof cabling (lower roof onto the poles and adjust tension).
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SAFETY POLES:
Couldn't be easier. Here's what I did. I found some pine in the shed which is a neat fit up into the roof (25x50mm??).
I dressed it so no splinters, rounded the edges to protect canvas, then protected it from the weather (I used Penetrol). Use something clear to paint it so you don't mark the canvas. I wouldn't use oil for the same reason
Then screwed a length of double-sided velcro at the lower end to hold it in place (probably unnecessary as they seem to stay in place without it.
I have four, but two at opposing corners will do for safety purposes. I just don't trust my 34yo roof system ;D
By rights all poles should be the same length and fit the same at each corner. Mine don't (variance of 20mm) so I'll eventually use them to re-rig the roof cabling (lower roof onto the poles and adjust tension).
Great work. Do Jayco sell the safety poles separately in case you loose one?
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Do Jayco sell the safety poles separately in case you loose one?
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You don't need safety poles for the roof because the only way a cable breaks is because the owner is not doing their regular inspection, maintenance and servicing as per their Owners Manual. (do you lightly tension your cables after roof lockdown and why?) If you don't understand that then always take the stairs rather than the lift in hi-rise buildings and avoid black cats walking across your path. It's exactly the same deal if you crap a set of wheel bearings on the road but we'll all wear flat tyres as down to lady luck.
Now to those setup videos and some finer points from experience. The kids are squawking, irritable and hungry and you want them seated inside and mum on the job ASAP and that means teamwork. First things first and with the Jayco in the posi you want it, Mum is flicking the catches while you have the level ramp and chock out and with the ramp under the low side and winder handle in by that stage, I'm in the car backing onto the ramp while mum calls enough(watching the T bubble on the drawbar for side to side only) and places the chock while I'm out and cranking up part way and the rope on bed flies are out (you may have rollups and zip bags) and she feeds in while I pull them across. Then I'm winding up fully while she's setting up the back bed and I'm setting up the front and turning on the gas and in my case removing the trailer plug and refitting into the spare socket on the drawbar which switches on the camper battery.
She's slower than me but both know to only just hook the canvas over the top corners of the bed ends and never right over to the bottoms. Why? because that will keep the bed canvas slackest for pushing in the bed hockey sticks and note the difficulty one of our eggsperts in the video has trying to lock one in. (it doesn't help if you're a shortass anyway and the missus leaves them to me) As soon as I'm done with that it's step out and in to setup the door. Now note one eggspert takes off the plastic cover before unclipping and lowering the door. If you do that rather than leave it until the door is in place as the other rightly does you'll have a 3 part door juggle on you hands. No fix the door in place and then slip the Velcro plastic off from the inside and then immediately fit the side door flaps into their aluminium stile tracks before you put up the bed hockey sticks. Why? Because the canvas is still all loose remember and it makes rolling the door flaps in a breeze. While the missus is getting stuff out the car I've test fired the stove and then switched on the fridge (the fridge likes gas in the line remember) and then I set up the table (we travel with it down and leg on the ground or you'll find brackets and screws coming loose) and then the hockey sticks on the beds and while she's making a cuppa I'm outa there and levelling the rig and winding down the stabilisers, pushing up the tele legs fully and fitting their flap covers and pulling the bed canvas tight and velcroing it under and clipping on the elastic cords for the bed flies. 10mins max but notice mum's inside with the kettle on (or stuff out for the kids) in under 5.
We do the same team deal packing up where she's inside doing her bit while I'm outside attending to all the peripherals I can before final wind down. ie it's a simple job for me to pull the flies single handed and mum doesn't need stabiliser legs down, etc to be busy packing up inside. She can be helping around the other side and back pushing the canvas in when winding down and remember that bed canvas folding trick. There's another small detail at that stage and that's to tuck in the corners of the velcroed bed flaps behind the sliding bed rails too as they can get caught/jam up when pushing in the beds. Last thing the driver does is the walkaround checking EVERY detail before driving off and that way you won't forget your handle or leave the levelling ramp behind, etc, etc. It all becomes routine and trouble free after a few goes, particularly after you're all locked up and looking pleased with yourself and then you notice the vent hatch is wide open waiting for some road speed to rip it off. That's part of the mental checklist like the fridge locked and on 12V and doors all secured before you close the door, secure the holdback latch and pop the step in, to proceed with wind down, etc.
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A lifetime of technical trials and tribulations and I just can't help noticing when manufacturers change design details and ask myself why? Couldn't help spotting that change of door detail from my current 2003 Jayco and also my 80s one. Instead of the many years of Jayco doors where they had a vinyl flap at the bottom of the top door section, in order to secure it via the butterfly button clips to the roof and the door bottom, those new ones now have a solid metal bracket (podercoat alum like the door presumably) What the...? I reckon some young Jayco designer has lost the plot with that change and perhaps you'd like to speculate as to why I think that? It often happens when you lose mature expertise in such matters.
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While I agree with you that you probably don't need the roof poles but after you've experienced the lifting system fail and seen the roof come down in a hurry I would hate to have it come down on my loved ones. Better to be safe than sorry for a 30 sec job.
My swift was 3 months old when winding the roof up almost to the top a component failed and 2 of the 4 corners came down in a hurry. You can't say we hadn't been maintaining it. Jayco introduced the poles because people have started adding air cons, solar panels, boat racks etc to the roof after incidents when they did fail with the extra weight.
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So you're saying your Finch left the factory with a faulty winding component? Which component exactly and presumably red faces at Jayco and they took care of it? If they left the slave cable nuts loose I guess it's the same as leaving your axle nut or wheel nuts loose.
So we need roof safety poles to cover owners sticking aircons, boats, etc on their rooves now? A lot like a bunch of HVAC tradeys deciding the hi-rise aircon compressor needs changing and if they get a small container forklift 'she'll be right mate' to use the 12 person rated lift to do the job. I suddenly have this vision of Jaycos needing tandem axles and wheels, brakes, etc, just in case....?
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So you're saying your Finch left the factory with a faulty winding component? Which component exactly and presumably red faces at Jayco and they took care of it? If they left the slave cable nuts loose I guess it's the same as leaving your axle nut or wheel nuts loose.
So we need roof safety poles to cover owners sticking aircons, boats, etc on their rooves now? A lot like a bunch of HVAC tradeys deciding the hi-rise aircon compressor needs changing and if they get a small container forklift 'she'll be right mate' to use the 12 person rated lift to do the job. I suddenly have this vision of Jaycos needing tandem axles and wheels, brakes, etc, just in case....?
Yep something wasn't fitted correctly and while it was fine for the first few trips it eventually pulled out. Sorry I can't tell you exactly what it was but I did see the photos of what had failed and it was a hard plastic part. All fixed under warranty but not by Jayco. Have found a local mob who are fantastic
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You don't need safety poles for the roof because the only way a cable breaks is because the owner is not doing their regular inspection, maintenance and servicing as per their Owners Manual.
Seriously? So no need for vehicle airbags, oil pressure warning lights, emergency exits in aircraft, baby capsules, fire extinguishers, insurance policies?.................. ??? As they say Shit Happens (or more eloquently:"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men" Robert Burns)
The cable pulleys and winder mechanism in my Jayco are screwed into almost 40 year old timber. I don't know the history of the van. So I'd be foolish to trust things.
It's like carrying a serviceable spare tyre. If you do, you won't need it. The day you leave it at home........... :-[
What do I lose by carrying and using a couple of sticks...???? compared to what I could lose if the roof collapses. When it's windy I also sleep better knowing the poles are in place
PS: Jayco did build a bogie-axle wind up camper. It was a monster!
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Gee these threads go pear shaped real quick
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Great work. Do Jayco sell the safety poles separately in case you loose one?
Yep they do
Swannie
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Well I can see why you're nervous after that total QA failure by Jayco with your Finch and presumably the pre-delivery check by the Dealer didn't pick anything up? Believe it or not the Owners Manual requires it back for a first service a bit like a car at 1000km or 3months and after that it's 10000km or 12 monthly. No manufacturing is perfect but Jayco have had that very robust lift system for 35+ years now and many owners happily wind them for years never knowing what's under the hood. That was a young me my 80s one but then you're always too important and too busy for such minor details (usually dealing with all the dramas because you are until you work it out)
In the final analysis I've heard of more fatalities from shark attacks (2 in 3yrs with the latest in SA now) than killer Jayco rooves coming down on unfortunates but when you've had a close encounter I'll understand.
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Just to add some fuel to the fire.............
>:D >:D >:D >:D
I was with a mate - who consequently is no longer a mate, but that is another story for the campfire!
Who had a new Jayco Eagle.
He tried to wind it up while one roof clip was still done up.
Needless to say things went pear shaped and one of the springs in the wind up turret went awol.
It went 3/4 of the way up till he noticed.
One corner completely stuffed, but we managed to fix it later.
HOWEVER - the roof stayed up and did sag in the corner, but it still stayed up.
I would be extremely surprised if all 4 corners or even 2 corners let go at the same time.
You would have to be seriously unlucky.
AGAIN HOWEVER - I reckon if I bought a cemetery people would stop dying, so I use a pole to prop 2 diagonal corners of mine just to be safe.......... :-[
Food for thought.
Brian
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Gee these threads go pear shaped real quick
No it's more a variety of opinions that I provide and you decide and vise versa for us all. I've certainly learned a lot from others here cf my blissful ignorance with my first Jayco. In that respect I take the view Jayco and their Dealer network should get it right and not take the lazy path of 'pay our product indemnity insurance and flick em a few prop poles and that'll keep em happy and the ambulance chasers off our backs'.
No they make a very sound and robust lift system and if they get it right and then as owner I understand the maintenance/inspection routine, then why the Hell should I have to carry around and fit up their cheat props all the time? Still if others want to carry around poles or bits of wood and prop their Jayco up with them it's a free country for mine but don't expect me to Jayco. Get your critical winch system QA right in the first place.
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Well I can see why you're nervous after that total QA failure by Jayco with your Finch and presumably the pre-delivery check by the Dealer didn't pick anything up? Believe it or not the Owners Manual requires it back for a first service a bit like a car at 1000km or 3months and after that it's 10000km or 12 monthly. No manufacturing is perfect but Jayco have had that very robust lift system for 35+ years now and many owners happily wind them for years never knowing what's under the hood. That was a young me my 80s one but then you're always too important and too busy for such minor details (usually dealing with all the dramas because you are until you work it out)
In the final analysis I've heard of more fatalities from shark attacks (2 in 3yrs with the latest in SA now) than killer Jayco rooves coming down on unfortunates but when you've had a close encounter I'll understand.
Mate you sound a bit like a keyboard warrior. You do it your way and we'll do it ours. Neither of us will probably ever have any problems. My appologise to the OP for taking the topic of track.
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I would be extremely surprised if all 4 corners or even 2 corners let go at the same time.
You would have to be seriously unlucky.
Absolutely, you'd have to be unlucky. But I haven't won Lotto yet, so does that make me unlucky? :D There are failure modes where the whole roof would come down. There is one winch and one main cable, before it splits into four cables. The door should provide a measure of safety, if you have it installed. I often leave the door up on the ceiling with the annex fitted.
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All good banter people, good ideas too. I think I will look at adding the safety poles, if anything to protect me from the kids accidentally winding it down on me!!!!
On another note, checked out a couple of Jaycos today, some peoples idea of "very good condition" varies a lot to mine >:(
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All good banter people, good ideas too. I think I will look at adding the safety poles, if anything to protect me from the kids accidentally winding it down on me!!!!
Just a tip to remove and lock your winder handle away when you've finished setup as a Jayco owner without a handle is not a happy place to be :'(
As Jayco owners we can all be relaxed and comfortable relying on the winch system PROVIDED it is serviced and the cabling inspected and adjusted if need be (always check the slave cable nuts for tightness) at the appropriate service intervals. Maintenance, just like lifts and cranes ropes involves checking for any fraying or broken wires in cables and replacement if noticed and my 03 Dove still sports its original cables in sound condition. A handy tip is to quickly check measure your roof height (at all 4 tele legs) while loading up before another trip, as that will warn you if something is untoward like a slave cable adjuster coming loose.
However I can see the sense in the extra aggravation of carrying and setting up Jayco's safety poles if some owners want extra insurance, or more largely for those who don't service and inspect a critical functional component of their Jayco, just like they'd ignore their brakes and wheel bearings until the inevitable happens.
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Polarising poles apart batman.
We had a Finch for around 10 years. Never used safety poles, never had a roof catastrophe. Use em' if ya like, I can't see an issue with peace of mind. If I was supplied with them when we purchased the camper, I'd a probably used em', occasionally.
I'd not be to critical on Jayco supplying the safety poles. The decision to do so may more than likely be insurance based, duty of care and all. But hey, as I said whats wrong with a little piece of mind. I lock the campsite up nightly (regardless of were we're camping); kayaks, surfboards, fishing gear and other items with a penchant for "walking" all get put away or secured with various cables etc. Helps me sleep, not to mention waking to find all my toys intact and ready for action.
Great little rant on setting up the camper there Prodigyrf. We had a similar military style of bivouac activity on arrival. With a couple of variations:
I always removed the plastic cover from the door before attachment. Never had any dramas with it.
Our other variation had the levelling and leg winding completed as part of the initial setting up.
That was the one aspect of your setup that I didn't much like; you didn't level out the camper (fore and aft), and set the stabiliser legs down prior to entering and setting up the beds. In my mind thats a recipe for disaster. A bit too much weight in the back and the whole unit can go arse over apex. Sure its never happened to you, but I've seen it happen (to an old couple in a caravan). Now whilst the whole prospect of seeing a camper or caravan with its drawbar pointing to the sky and a couple of codgers flailing about inside, does have some comedic merit. The funny side of the argument would fail to seen by those in the throws of shock and panic.
Apart from that, yeah pretty quick to set up. We could often be done in under ten minutes if the planets aligned. They are a clever little camper.
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"That was the one aspect of your setup that I didn't much like; you didn't level out the camper (fore and aft), and set the stabiliser legs down prior to entering and setting up the beds."
Yes I probably didn't explain that but generally if my rig's on fairly level ground the drawbar dips down at the front and I'll use the jockey wheel to lift it level while still attached to the car and then the stabilisers later. Having been in construction I have a good eye for level and can tell backing around where the camper is most level. If it's only an overnighter, just in the bush I won't bother with the ramp and chock but just tell the missus which side (the slightly uphill according to the T bubble) to put the pillows on when the bubble shows slightly off. Fore and aft is less critical for sleeping, although with the round sink and plughole off centre and toward the rear, you find the sink doesn't drain completely so the sponge it is. Clearly more accurate level setup is required for a couple of nights or more, plus you use the ramp in the bush if the spot is nice but a bit too sloping to ignore. Beyond the ramp adjustment and I'm looking for a different spot.
I should add that with a bush stop I'll often stay hitched up just use a 3 point jockey wheel and back 2 stabilisers and not worry about the front 2 and say the bubble shows slightly high on the drivers side then naturally I'll wind the passenger side stabiliser down hard first, often correcting that and then tighten the driver's side one to that. These are the usual setup tricks we all learn whatever the rig.
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OK... i purchased a Jayco Dove Outback 2012 model. Went to Port Lincoln in Oct/Nov 2013 & it just happened to be terrible weather, windy & rain.
The whole top of the camper was swaying so much the centre pole that holds the bed out eventually worked it's way out of the holding slot & came down on my head.. more than once. Until I eventually worked out if I wrapped insulation tape around the end & jammed it back into the slot i wore the pole about 3 times.. forget about when i went out for the night & the pole collapsed again, the canvas come down full of water (before i used the tape). Luckily we had the waterproof covering on the innerspring mattress.
Another problem i had was the electric brake connections came adrift & I had to have them replaced/soldered.
I took it thru the Painted desert & some corrugated roads getting to Murphy's Haystacks & the lion colony in SA......plenty of dust but not a problem.
As far as towing.............. towed like a dream behind the Navara.
Just the uncertainty in bad weather convinced me to upgrade to a poptop.
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Thanks for the great replies, just what I was looking for! The missus will be happy with that. There are some awesome tips there and the links are great. The missus wonders why I am always on this site...
Just sold my soft floor camper last night, the missus was more upset than I was! Checked out a 1995 Hawk at a yard yesterday and were pretty happy with the layout. A couple more Qs:
G'day Nick
We have had a couple of Jaycos and found the best storage solution to be some plastic office drawers from Officeworks. We keep them inside at home, pack them and then carry them outside. They travel in the back of the Ranger and either stay there (if overnighting) or get thrown in the back of the annexe for a longer stay. Kids get a drawer each wife and I get 2 each. Won't suit everyone but works well for us!
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Thanks again guys/gals. I will hitting you up for more questions very soon!!!
Well I bought and picked up a 2005 Jayco Dove today. She has been well used and a few things need fixing but I'm not too worried about the aesthetics and most importantly the price was right!!!
Just set it up at home, only ever watched the vids posted here and the guy I bought it off showed me how to put it down. I did it myself in about 25mins from unhitching from car to laying on the mattress, including inspections at each stage! Very happy with that considering it was the first time I had actually done it.
1. Is the inbuilt charger thingo any good? Any ideas where I can find out more info about it?
2. Any links to replacement LED lamps you can recommend?
3. How do I access the pullies/cables etc to inspect/grease them?
Here she is in my driveway!
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb318/nabstud/jayco2_zps708cd610.jpg) (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/nabstud/media/jayco2_zps708cd610.jpg.html)
First mod was to get rid of this sticker haha!!!!!
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb318/nabstud/dove3_zps3632d7c0.jpg) (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/nabstud/media/dove3_zps3632d7c0.jpg.html)
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Congratulations Nab
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1. Is the inbuilt charger thingo any good? Any ideas where I can find out more info about it?
2. Any links to replacement LED lamps you can recommend?
3. How do I access the pullies/cables etc to inspect/grease them?
The inbuilt charger thingo info can be found in this link: http://www.setec.com.au/jayco-customers/ (http://www.setec.com.au/jayco-customers/)
LED replacement "globes" can be sourced from a decent marine supplier or electronics shop. Take the globes you want to replace with you. Different styles of pin configuration and output.
The winding mechanism is in the front corner, where the handle goes in. From memory, access is from inside under the seat. There should be a raised section in there. (others will have better info on that).
Congratulations on the purchase.
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NAB
The winding mechanism is pretty easy to get to. It is behind the front under seat storage (towards the front of the camper). If it's like my 03 Finch, it is accessible by removing the screws that hold on plywood cover.
Cheers
JB
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nab ...... i found the best place for the LED globes was : http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/beach_lovers/m.html (http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/beach_lovers/m.html)
beachlovers01@optusnet.com.au
i sent you a pm
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You people are awesome! I try searching but it comes up with 8237462862387 threads as I am unsure of which search words will get the info I want...
Thanks for the links, will do some reading before I ask any more questions!
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CAMEC also do LED Globes
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Here she is in my driveway!
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb318/nabstud/jayco2_zps708cd610.jpg) (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/nabstud/media/jayco2_zps708cd610.jpg.html)
First mod was to get rid of this sticker haha!!!!!
(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb318/nabstud/dove3_zps3632d7c0.jpg) (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/nabstud/media/dove3_zps3632d7c0.jpg.html)
[/quote]
Looks like a well planned carport there ,with room to wind the Jayco up, it is exactly how I built mine ,with enough room to raise the roof on a camper or a future offroad pop top.
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While those T10 plugin LEDs are easy to fit I found 48 panel 5050 LEDs much better for your general overhead lights (assuming you have 2 single lights instead of the later double lights) here-
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Interior-48-SMD-5050-LED-Light-Lamp-Panel-T10-Festoon-Dome-BA9S-DC-12V-White-/321289633832?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ace5ac028 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Car-Interior-48-SMD-5050-LED-Light-Lamp-Panel-T10-Festoon-Dome-BA9S-DC-12V-White-/321289633832?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ace5ac028)
Forget the peel off stickon and remove it as it won't last and fix the panel on with dobs of silicon (4 corners and a couple to fix the fine wires so they can't vibrate away from the soldered connection at the back. The 24 panel ones are ideal for plugin bed lights if you have them.
As for the winch system it's well explained here-
http://www.hairfysh.com/index.php/our-travels/our-camper.html (http://www.hairfysh.com/index.php/our-travels/our-camper.html)
and there are some posts with pics and videos around if you net search
As far as the Setec unit is concerned it is designed to run the 12V lights and any added 12V accessories while plugged into 240V as well as trickle charge any onboard battery when laid up. It is designed locally to handle quite variable 240V power supply such as you may find with diesel gennys, etc in remote areas.
PS: Here's a video which will give you an idea what those winch layout diagrams show-
Replaceing a broken cable on my Popup Camper (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjFWKFwIBsU#ws)
Notice he says he was expecting a slave cable to break and that's because one had been chafing on the track pulley holder because in turn that compression spring guide is distorted and allowing it to happen. The guide should be replaced and fixed securely back in its right place.
Now bear in mind you can buy a slave cable set complete for $57 already swaged with adjuster eyebolts and nuts, etc so there's no need to chance your arm with handyman swaging and bulldog grips. Neither do you need heavier eyebolts as Jayco engineers know exactly what's needed. Yes if you should snap a cable it may overload the others but there's no excuse whatsoever for snapping a cable, as annual inspection would forewarn you if any were fraying and for whatever reason. Cable lifts are always designed with a Safe Working Load which is multiples below any cable's breaking strain, so you need a significant proportion of broken wires before a cable 'suddenly' breaks. Basically there aint no sudden about it.
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Another one, does anyone just run the fridge on battery? I read about using battery when travelling then changing over to gas but I reckon just keeping it on battery with a solar panel would be better for a few days?
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Not sure how your year model is set up but if it's like mine the 12v option only maintains whatever temperature the fridge is at prior to switching to 12v. It chews the juice pretty quickly and will only work when connected to the car. A few people have changed the 3way fridge to a Waeco compressor model if they want to run them on 12v. Seems like a great mod. I have found our 3way to be great but it did struggle to keep things really cold running on gas in 35 degree temperatures we had over Christmas.
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Another one, does anyone just run the fridge on battery? I read about using battery when travelling then changing over to gas but I reckon just keeping it on battery with a solar panel would be better for a few days?
The Dometic 90L, 3 ways (like our RM350) pull 10.5Amps and will run flat out all the time on 12V. ie unlike gas or 240V adjusting the temp control doesn't affect the current draw. That's where you have to decide whether it's worth investing in a large solar/battery setup or wear the gas cost free camping, bearing in mind an 8.5kg will run the fridge only for a couple of weeks depending on ambient temp. To keep the cost and weight penalty of a solar/battery setup down in order to save on gas, effectively means changing to a compressor fridge when you realise you'll need 10.5Amps at night and cloudy days with an absorption 12V.
In any case we find water capacity is the dominant factor with free camping stays so a modest 120W folding panel and extra car battery runs the LED lighting and the usual gadgets like the added 12V water pump- http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=22949.msg354124#msg354124 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=22949.msg354124#msg354124)
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And although from SA we're not the only ones noticing that water is the critical factor but how far do you want to go with that as well?
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=35440.0 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=35440.0)
decisions..decisions..
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OK, the fridge doesn't really work on gas. It took me a while to get the thing to light and the red marker on the gauge only went to half way. How far it is supposed to go?
I took off the outside vents and noticed that there was only a very small flame, possible just the pilot light. Adjusting the thermostat made to difference. I left it overnight like that and the fridge didn't get cold at all, even though the themostat was set on 7. The seller did say the fridge was a bit dicky on gas...
The hotplate seems to be getting enough gas, maybe there is a blockage in the fridge gas line. Hmmm.
Fridge works perfect on 240V, yet to try it on 12V.
Any ideas?
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Pull the fridge out. Clean the flue with a compressor and a wire brush to remove all the ok'd soot.then tip the fridge upside down for a day, rollit around a hit and leave sit for another day. Turn back upright and reinstall. Turn back on to gas and test. If still no good then the fridge is stuffed.
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