MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: sol on December 30, 2013, 10:34:04 AM
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A few months back I got my 9kg gas bottle filled at a local hardware shop for our Weber
All good.
Yesterday went and got a Swap and Go Bottle for Weber, lit it up and the flame is yellow and seems to spit every now and then.
A mate was telling me not to use Swap and Go and to only go get bottle refilled.
Is the gas in Swap and Go bottles different?
:cheers:
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Propane / butane mixes can vary a bit between different suppliers, which can marginally affect flame quality, but more likely to be a regulator or burner issue.
http://bbq.about.com/od/grillsfaq/f/f070604d.htm (http://bbq.about.com/od/grillsfaq/f/f070604d.htm)
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Sometimes it just NOT about convenience.
These new bottles won't work on my Primus 4 burner at all! With a "swap and go" ... I'd need to buy special fittings which are hard to come by and I couldn't be bothered even trying. The bottle is about as 1/2 as old as I am and still going strong.
Also, on the camper, I have specifically sized bottles for the job. I doubt a "swap and go" would fit in there - as bottles are now all different sizes. How painful would it be to try and fit the wrong size bottle in there?
I refill. When it expires, you get it checked and they stamp it and also refill it.
I was brought up that way ... Reuse / Recycle / Re(whatever that other one is) ...
Kit_e
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Sol,
I'm on the road and if i could/would use Swap n Go that would be great!. But after so many bad stories and personal bad experiences i've got 2 brand new 4.5kg bottles myself and will only use refill. Why??
I've had about 1/2 lt of water in the bottom of a swap n go.
Half filled (i.e was too light so checked it and sure enough half full)
Yellow/green flames as well as crap coming out of the bottles.
I avoid them now.. Just not worth the hassle. i know my bottles and i know where they are filled. Yes you do need to plan a little and how much you use, but id prefer to know my bottles actually work.
If you do a quick search on google you will see similar stories like the above.
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I just like to refill with my own bottles.
Swannie
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Refill untill your bottle is out of date, then swap and go to get a new bottle.
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Thanks guys, it was working perfect until I got the Swap bottle.
I just tried a bottle from the camper and bingo the flame is blue again.
I'll use it up ASAP and get the bottle refilled from now on.
:cheers:
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Refill untill your bottle is out of date, then swap and go to get a new bottle.
agree x 2, particularly if you're after the fatter bottle to fit in the holders.
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I normally have my bottles refilled,odd occasion swap and go with no problems but the last refill, not sure what the deal was but the flame kept going out on the ct so i tried on bbq and it did the same.
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I used to fill my own, but was costing about $30 to refill, so ive started using the swap and go from my local Bunnings, never had a problem yet, bottle is always full, good flame etc, and only cost me $21.82 to swap.
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I have found swap and go costs about double what BCF will fill your bottles for. If possible, I will always refill, unless in a position where I can't.
Refill for the cost savings, swap and go if I was not prepared enough and run out while on a trip and refill not possible.
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... ive started using the swap and go from my local Bunnings, never had a problem yet, bottle is always full, good flame etc, and only cost me $21.82 to swap.
x2 I haven't had an issue, yet...
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x3 Bunnings
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Swap n go are good for when your bottles are near expirery date. ;D
Foo
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There is no way I will swap my good bottles for the swap and Go. I go to the LPG place down the road and get my fill for a quarter of the price.
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Refill for the 2 x 4.5 kg camper bottles, purchased them new in 2010.
Swap and Go for the 9 kg bottle at home.
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You're on the road and they charge around $44 for a 9kg fill at the cara park and many places the same for a swap but Bunnings charge $21.95 Oz wide for a swap so the answer is Bunnings swaps wherever timely or feasible.(leaving Darwin for the NW I donated a quarter of a bottle to Bunnings as a no-brainer) Yes the bottle sizes vary and I have to carry a couple of set bolt sizes to accommodate the 'adjustable' flat strap iron holder. Can't say I've had probs with gas quality although one I recall gave off a slight diesel smell while cooking.
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The bottle I've got has more of a kero smell when burning. ???
:cheers:
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I've had times in sydney when the servo won't do refills as they only have 1 person on, and can't leave the checkout to do a gas fill.
Increasingly difficult to get find convienient locations to get a bottle refilled in inner Sydney.
SWMBO doesn't care for getting good gas, just swap it.
Will start to do the swaps at bunnings since a few of you have given them the nod.
Thanks
BTW as for the kero smell on the gas, that reminds me when I was a kid hiking & I stored the jell babies next to the kero fire starters. Still ate them though, just careful not to breath out near the fire at night.
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I'm just wondering if we could start a list of locations of businesses that are happy to do refills ? I know it's hard to find places to refill down here on the Mornington peninsula .
I'm keen as the last bottle I got was an older bottle with a high collar which I didn't notice . Unfortunately i put it on the side of my brand new CT with the hinge. When opening the camper I stretched the hinge out of shape. Next job is to replace the hinges. :-[
Buster
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Rays & BCF typically do refills.
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i used to do swap at Bunnings until one morning I walked past the BBQ and noticed it felt warm. When I checked the burner was just alight, had been all night. The tap on the BBQ was on low but when I checked the tap on the gas bottle it was turn off firmly. Two more times in the next 4 or 5 swaps I found that even with the tap turned off there was still a small amount of gas escaping from the bottle. (not as much as the first time). That was the end of swapping for me.
Seems as though nobody has bothered teaching the persons who get to fill the bottles not to tighten the valve too much. I have had bottles that have taken a lot of force to open.
Rob
Edit:
It's probably not so much the persons filling the bottle that don't know not to tighten the tap too much but some of the swappers that have had the bottle before you. Even so, should be checked before putting back on the rack.
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Bunnings is a lot cheaper than servo swap & go and I've not had any issues with them..
Another tip is to become a member at BBQs Galore and they will refill for $16 or so
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Bunnings is a lot cheaper than servo swap & go and I've not had any issues with them..
Another tip is to become a member at BBQs Galore and they will refill for $16 or so
My local Bunnings is $21 to swap, local servo is $44.95, I used to fill at BBQ's Galore was $24.95 but is now pushing $30 a fill
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I have two 4kg bottles on my camper, both are the zinc painted versions, and they on the last refill were out of date.
I had my local gas shop who are licensed to re stamp them do it and it under half the price of a new bottle of same quality. They fitted a new tap and refilled it for this price.
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I'm just wondering if we could start a list of locations of businesses that are happy to do refills ?
X 2. :cup:
:cheers:
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These are the people I always go to, a local business and I have always found them a pleasure to do business with.
http://www.athertongas.com.au/ (http://www.athertongas.com.au/)
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I really struggled to find someone in Orange, NSW. Then one day I was walking into BCF and noticed their Gas Refill sign ;D
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I just like to refill with my own bottles.
Swannie
same... but its getting harder to find places to get them refilled... :(
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If you are lucky enough to live in Canberra you will be pleased to know that the Nanny state is alive and well. Apparently refilling bottles is just too dangerous for all but a couple of outlets, BBQs Galore and Bunnings Fyshwick. The local Bunnings (Tuggeranong) failed to meet the filling standards, along with every other (except those mentioned) outlet in town.
No Choice but the Swap and Go, they must have a really good lobbyist to get just about all the refill outlets in town closed down.
I love OHS, an excuse to do lots of seemingly silly things and cost us a fortune!
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If you are lucky enough to live in Canberra you will be pleased to know that the Nanny state is alive and well. Apparently refilling bottles is just too dangerous for all but a couple of outlets, BBQs Galore and Bunnings Fyshwick. The local Bunnings (Tuggeranong) failed to meet the filling standards, along with every other (except those mentioned) outlet in town.
No Choice but the Swap and Go, they must have a really good lobbyist to get just about all the refill outlets in town closed down.
I love OHS, an excuse to do lots of seemingly silly things and cost us a fortune!
sounds like someone has shares in those 2 outlets!
OHS.. if I was going to make a career change that would be it.. get paid a fortune to tell people the ****in obvious.
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If you are lucky enough to live in Canberra you will be pleased to know that the Nanny state is alive and well...
I love OHS, an excuse to do lots of seemingly silly things and cost us a fortune!
Now, now don't wind the prodigy up again as he's been on therapy after enjoying the trials and tribulations of our pioneering spirited ancestors up the NW of WA and subsequently having to deal with the shock of settling back into Adelaide with the usual hyphenated hyperventilators over anything and everything that goes bump in the night.
I was doing OK until a short R&R to Waikerie and the river before Xmas when a visit to the local library with the laptop for wifi discovered kiddy plugs and tape over all library power sockets with large notices above each by order of Waikerie Council that no such heinous killer plugs must enter there. Had a complete relapse and electro convulsive shock therapy was the order of the day and the medication has been seriously upped ever since.
With the approval of my therapist I can now advise you fit a Gas Gauge so you know you're not wasting expensive gas thus-
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=22667.msg357511#top (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=22667.msg357511#top)
but obsessive compulsives homing in on the 'Safety' tag should obviously consult their therapist/s and a licensed gas fitter as the case may be.
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I'm just wondering if we could start a list of locations of businesses that are happy to do refills ?
X 2. :cup:
:cheers:
Have had bottles filled at our local BCF and closer to home the Home Timber and Hardware store never had problems with the gas. When we got our last bottle wanted certain shape and size for camper and the right outlet for our cooker this I found at K Mart.
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Had a 9kg bottle refilled at the local for $15 but it didn't seem to last as long as the swap and go ones did, unless someone here has been playing funny buggers...
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That's cause for $15, they only half filled it. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
KB
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That's cause for $15, they only half filled it. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
KB
ooohhh that explains why it only had taken 3 minutes to fill it ;D, I will wait till ive had a frew more brews then go a swipe his massive lpg filler tank thingy, that will learn him :D
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Supa gas here in wodonga weigh your bottle before and after they fill it and only charge for the gas they put in. Great for topping up half full bottles before a big trip so you don't have to carry 2
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Supa gas here in wodonga weigh your bottle before and after they fill it and only charge for the gas they put in. Great for topping up half full bottles before a big trip so you don't have to carry 2
We used to have a hardware store here that weighed the bottle before and after a refill.
The caravan park at Tully Heads is the only place locally that refills now.
:cheers:
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Refill for the 2 x 4.5 kg camper bottles, purchased them new in 2010.
Swap and Go for the 9 kg bottle at home.
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X2
Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2
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I've now got six 9kg gas bottles! 2 at home for the BBQ and patio heat, 2 on our old caravan that gets parked at the beach for 3 months and 2 more came with our Jayco camper. I've been using Bunnings and Masters swap & go because of the price, but now I'm sick of getting odd sized bottles that don't fit the holders and chalky paint that flakes off every time you touch them.
Slowly I'm still doing swap & go, but picking out what bottles I want to make sure they fit the holders. Fresh coat of decent paint and get them refilled at the AIS welding supplies in Montmorency (Vic) for around $27 and going by the weight it feels like they give you more gas.
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Hi there. i used to work for one of the swap gas companies.
there are differences in mixtures of LPG depending on where the supply comes from, and some cheaper LPG blends containing a mix of gases that fall under the classification of lpg, with the main ingredient being propane gas. this can cause the flame to burn more yellow and less efficiently than pure propane.
my experience was that no company will talk about what they blend with the propane, or how much. what you may never see is the blackening of the inside of the jets due to this poor burn mixture, which will ultimately cause your equipment issues over the long term and restrict flow.
so if you do experience issues with a particular brand of lpg, try another brand and you may need to stick with it. by the way, swap n go is a brand name which is used generically - which 'swap' brand caused the flame issue?
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I've now got six 9kg gas bottles!
How to become a person of interest to ASIO :police:
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...get them refilled at the AIS welding supplies in Montmorency (Vic) for around $27 and going by the weight it feels like they give you more gas.
I get mine filled at the South Morang Rays, the older guy there seems to know what he is doing.
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BCF at Laverton fill mine, and they're chockers too, but they're mostly Swap & Go bottles.
I gave up on being emotionally attached to my bottles long ago.
Sometimes, on the road, Swap & Go is the only option.
:cheers:
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I gave up on being emotionally attached to my bottles long ago.
:cup:
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Mik01, the brand was Swap and Go.
Thanks for the info mate.
:cheers:
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How to become a person of interest to ASIO :police:
or a future Oz Pig farmer
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How to become a person of interest to ASIO :police:
or a future Oz Pig farmer
Not to mention the 2 45kg bottles that were chained to the side of the house up until last year. :D
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... for all but a couple of outlets, BBQs Galore and Bunnings Fyshwick.
Unless things have changed BCF Fyshwick also do refills.
I switched to swap/go because of the increasing difficulty in finding places that fill, the time it takes and because I suddenly found both bottles out of date when attempting to get refill just before a camp. Tried to swap them (sometimes you strike a dopey teenager that doesn't remember to check) but no luck. Bunnings have the right shape 4kg bottle but they don't take/supply the normal camping type fitting. I gave in and bought a new swap bottle and adapter, and will do the same for my second bottle. eventually I'll get around to getting my old bottles checked/stamped and put them back into service. Amazing how 10 years just flies by.. I still think of those bottles as new!
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Unless things have changed BCF Fyshwick also do refills.
I switched to swap/go because of the increasing difficulty in finding places that fill, the time it takes and because I suddenly found both bottles out of date when attempting to get refill just before a camp. Tried to swap them (sometimes you strike a dopey teenager that doesn't remember to check) but no luck. Bunnings have the right shape 4kg bottle but they don't take/supply the normal camping type fitting. I gave in and bought a new swap bottle and adapter, and will do the same for my second bottle. eventually I'll get around to getting my old bottles checked/stamped and put them back into service. Amazing how 10 years just flies by.. I still think of those bottles as new!
Both kwikgas and swap n go accept out of date bottles as straight swaps.
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There is one thing to consider when doing the swap thing is to check the date of the cylinder they are trying to give you.
I got from bunnings in December a swap 4.5 kg for the camper, didn't check anything just plugged it in and went. It lasted no time at all when compared to the old cyl, that I had filled by the camping supply shop near by. The cyl from bunnings had a test date of feb 2001, so I was not able to get it filled where we were.
Yesterday, I took it back empty and said that it was out of date and to make sure you give me a new cylinder which is IN DATE.
Funny thing is I was told "They are tested ever time they are filled", to which I smile and asked for the proof, eventually, I found a bloke there who knew exactly what a test date is for, we went to the cage and found several cyl's out of date, filled, ready to go.
I scored a 6 month old cyl from them, shall now expect to cook 6 meals only, and nothing else, then get it filled as before.
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We chuck our bottles on the batroom scales. The dry weight is stamped on the bottle so it is easy to tell if you ahve been ripped off in a refill. Up until we moved I got my bottles filled at the local service station. He would start it off then ask me to turn it off when it was done so that made sure we were never short changed.
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swap bottles are filled and weighed with digital scales, guaranteeing correct amount of gas is provided every time.
due to it being a packaged retail good, the content weight must be correct every time, or the company risks action from regulators.
you have more chance of being 'ripped off' having the gas filled yourself than by buying a swap gas product. here's why -
when having it filled yourself, the filler used to know it is completely full when the gas vents through the bleed screw - this is achieved when the gas is filled up to the 'dip tube' that hangs from the bottom of the valve. problem is, there are varied lengths of dip tubes, and cylinder sizes vary slightly (ie some overseas cylinders have a lower volume capacity) - which can result in more or less gas content with each slightly different cylinder.
so if you have a longer 'dip tube', you get less gas by having it filled yourself. if you have a shorter dip tube, or no dip tube (as happens) - you risk carrying an overfull cylinder which is a safety hazard. it is now a regulation that cylinders must have 20% empty space to allow for expansion in hot weather conditions, and so reducing the occurrence that they will automatically vent.
this came about mostly due to mums and dads buying overfilled cylinders, throwing them in the car on a hot day (with the kids etc), and leaving them there while they shop elsewhere.
to ensure no one overfills and is potentially liable for any action arising from an accident, I would suspect that fillers MAY not fill to the point of the gas venting from the bleed screw, or rather fill by 'feel' of weight etc.
another point raised here related to the out of date stamp - sure there are times when an out of date cylinder may slip through into the swap cage. however we used to inspect, re-valve and pressure test every out of date cylinder that came through from the public prior to filling. and then the cylinder is re-stamped with a new date (and painted if required).
the old date will usually still remain on the cylinder - the operator will usually re-stamp the new date near to the old, but sometimes this isn't possible. just because you see an old date, doesn't mean that the new date isn't elsewhere and that the cylinder is perfectly safe and has been re-generated. my advice is to inspect the cowling around the valve closely for the date stamp - when painted, they can be hard to read at times.
I may be totally wrong, and I wasn't there, but I find it hard to believe that multiple kwikgas cylinders in a bunnings cage were out of date and presented for sale. if you are adamant there were no other date stamps on the cylinders, and each had the blue valve insert (ie they were filled and ready for sale), you should call Kleenheat and report it, or call the Gas Examiner's office in your State or Territory.
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another point raised here related to the out of date stamp - sure there are times when an out of date cylinder may slip through into the swap cage. however we used to inspect, re-valve and pressure test every out of date cylinder that came through from the public prior to filling. and then the cylinder is re-stamped with a new date (and painted if required).
I queried this when I was delivered 2 out of date bottles in a row from Kleenheat and there was no other date stamp on the bottle. When I called Kleenheat, they said yes the re-tested them but didn't re-stamp them...
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I queried this when I was delivered 2 out of date bottles in a row from Kleenheat and there was no other date stamp on the bottle. When I called Kleenheat, they said yes the re-tested them but didn't re-stamp them...
fair enough, I believe you - it is incredible to me that they would break the law though
just did a quick google on this - see Kleenheat's response to the same question -
http://whrl.pl/RdjKqT (http://whrl.pl/RdjKqT)
I worked for the 'other mob'. by law, all cylinders are required to be tested, 're-valved' and re-stamped when out of date and intended to be refilled for sale.
I cannot understand why they wouldn't be re-stamped - it takes 5 seconds with the stamping press and must be recorded.
I've seen the whole process many times, and its very simple and straightforward.
the stamp also has a unique code identifying the approved testing station that carried out the refurb as well as the year of refurb - it is a requirement that this stamp is placed onto the cylinder - no ifs or buts.
would be interested who at Kleenheat said this to you - I bet they wouldn't provide that comment in writing.
straight up - it is NOT legal to fill a cylinder that does not have a current in date stamp
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would be interested who at Kleenheat said this to you - I bet they wouldn't provide that comment in writing.
Comment came from both the delivery driver and the customer service rep at the call centre. It's no stress I just take an in date bottle now.
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I use the Swap & Go at my local Stratco, $21.95 a pop.
The bottles original date is out of code, unsure if it has been restamped. I asked them about out of date bottles and they said as long as it has the Swap & Go sticker on it they will exchange it regardless of the date as all their bottles get tested.
Sounded OK to me, haven't had any issues yet...
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Wow ! I can't believe they get away with that!! I feel sorry for the first poor unfortunate person who is dealing with the insurance company on the replacement for their burnt out CT or compensation for the demise of a family member !!!
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Swap and go.... Never ever had a problem and will always use them. I get mine from Bunnings...
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Yep I've picked up full out of date bottles with no obvious restamp on them and discovered that when I went to get it filled which is rare nowadays as it's too costly labour wise. As a result I always check a new swap for a healthy use by date stamp.
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I was at Rays outdoors today looking at getting another 4kg bottle for the webber.
Their deal, you have to buy a brand new bottle, then swap it for one of their swap and go second jobbies out the front.
I didn't get one.
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I was at Rays outdoors today looking at getting another 4kg bottle for the webber.
Their deal, you have to buy a brand new bottle, then swap it for one of their swap and go second jobbies out the front.
I didn't get one.
Then they go and put the new one back on the shelf to sell ???
:cheers:
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Re out of date swap bottles there is an explanation when you think about it. The law says we can't refill out of date bottles but it doesn't say anything about having to empty them the moment they're out of date and so you can see how they might be in date when filled by the swap mobs but a few months out of date particularly if it gets tucked away at the back of the swap cage (ie the bottle deliverer doesn't bother pulling the back ones out and sticking the new ones in their place). Then you hitch it up to the barbie out back for a year or so or don't use the camper for months and guess what when you're out bush and want it filled? It's why I make sure I get a swap that's well in date nowadays a bit like checking use by dates in the supermart fridge.
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Both kwikgas and swap n go accept out of date bottles as straight swaps.
and what's more they take each others' clearly marked bottles as I discovered. Mind you that may explain the multiple layers of thick paint on some that make them a real joy getting in and out of the holder.
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Re out of date swap bottles there is an explanation when you think about it. The law says we can't refill out of date bottles but it doesn't say anything about having to empty them the moment they're out of date and so you can see how they might be in date when filled by the swap mobs but a few months out of date particularly if it gets tucked away at the back of the swap cage (ie the bottle deliverer doesn't bother pulling the back ones out and sticking the new ones in their place). Then you hitch it up to the barbie out back for a year or so or don't use the camper for months and guess what when you're out bush and want it filled? It's why I make sure I get a swap that's well in date nowadays a bit like checking use by dates in the supermart fridge.
The law is a funny thing. I don't want to try to explain to the coroner why I thought if was a good idea to use an out of date bottle.
gordo350
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Re out of date swap bottles there is an explanation when you think about it. The law says we can't refill out of date bottles but it doesn't say anything about having to empty them the moment they're out of date and so you can see how they might be in date when filled by the swap mobs but a few months out of date particularly if it gets tucked away at the back of the swap cage (ie the bottle deliverer doesn't bother pulling the back ones out and sticking the new ones in their place). Then you hitch it up to the barbie out back for a year or so or don't use the camper for months and guess what when you're out bush and want it filled? It's why I make sure I get a swap that's well in date nowadays a bit like checking use by dates in the supermart fridge.
Yes... And no.
If it had less than 6mths left in date, we would retest and restamp etc and put it back out there.
Drivers are responsible for stock rotation in cages, but it does happen that crappy ones sit in the back corners - these are usually identifiable by being the dirtiest in the cage. But they would have to sit around for a while for this to happen.
But it's easy for it to go out of date while you have it.
If you have any thoughts of refilling, then insist on as much date as possible when you swap.
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If it had less than 6mths left in date, we would retest and restamp etc and put it back out there.
Just good practice but no legal requirement for you do so I presume and you can fill them right up to the legal expiry date?
Edit: And while we're on the topic, if the bottle is stamped 01-2004 then can you only refill legally up to the end of Dec 2013 or the end of Jan 2014?
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Edit: And while we're on the topic, if the bottle is stamped 01-2004 then can you only refill legally up to the end of Dec 2013 or the end of Jan 2014?
In the industry I normally work in, we have a lot of pressure vessels which I am responsible for, most for breathing gasses, some for human occupancy, we work on the safe side of the 1 month date stamp with the theory of "what is 1 month in 10 years".
I would assume this would carry over to other presser vessels as well, such as gas cylinders.
My edit bit,
Doe's anyone have a copy of the AS for this by any chance? That removes any arguments and "I think" statements from us all.
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Just good practice but no legal requirement for you do so I presume and you can fill them right up to the legal expiry date?
Edit: And while we're on the topic, if the bottle is stamped 01-2004 then can you only refill legally up to the end of Dec 2013 or the end of Jan 2014?
Yes, just good practice.
End of December in this scenario. We don't know what day it was tested in January previously.
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In the industry I normally work in, we have a lot of pressure vessels which I am responsible for, most for breathing gasses, some for human occupancy, we work on the safe side of the 1 month date stamp with the theory of "what is 1 month in 10 years".
I would assume this would carry over to other presser vessels as well, such as gas cylinders.
My edit bit,
Doe's anyone have a copy of the AS for this by any chance? That removes any arguments and "I think" statements from us all.
I don't have a copy, however each state has legislation that covers safe handling and use of lpg. Try workcover NSW for example for specific information and regulations in NSW -
http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/formspublications/publications/Documents/filling_refillable_gas_cylinders_fact_sheet_2231.pdf (http://www.workcover.nsw.gov.au/formspublications/publications/Documents/filling_refillable_gas_cylinders_fact_sheet_2231.pdf)
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a regulation that cylinders must have 20% empty space to allow for expansion in hot weather conditions, and so reducing the occurrence that they will automatically vent.
So is this why 9kg bottles are now all 8.5kg bottles?
I thought it was just a conspiracy by swap and go to rip me off with less gas!
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So is this why 9kg bottles are now all 8.5kg bottles?
I thought it was just a conspiracy by swap and go to rip me off with less gas!
Yes mate. A lot of our cylinders are manufactured in Thailand and have a smaller liquid capacity than locally manufactured ones. This meant that they were technically being overfilled, with 9kg of gas each.
So, less gas. But no price reduction of course!