MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: thecamocamper on December 21, 2013, 06:22:24 PM
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Hi all
thought I would put this out to see what the people here would say
my idea is
the government lease the building and all machinery from holden just before they close the doors
we already pay for keeping holden running
then any government department that needs a vehicle it is supplied with the holden vehicle that is needed
how many government departments buy vehicles
this would save all the workers jobs( the factory and the other people that supply parts
and we would be paying them for working instead of paying on the unemployment line
what does everybody think ( im not a brain surgeon)
Thank you
Rob
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It still costs to much to produce a car in Australia. Doesn't matter who owns the shed and equipment. The govt could just buy holders now if they wanted.
I can see what you are trying to say though.
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Government ownership of car manufacturing plants has a pretty chequered history.
British Leyland (rover, triumph, Austin Morris ) Fiat, Lada! all have ended in tears, too inefficient and lacking funds for development of new products. Others include bricklin, and delorean who gouged huge sums out of Canadian and American state governments before going belly up.
You would quickly find that the finished product would be out dated, kind of like what Holden and ford and valiant produced in the 70's before they were dragged into manufacturing more efficient, safe and well handling vehicles.
The horse has bolted sadly.
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I was reading somewhere the other day that globally there are approx 84 million cars built yearly. Holden Elizabeth's share are that was a fraction over 80,000.
Puts it into perspective how small Holden are in the scheme of things. It simply isn't competitive nor sustainable to continue for them (or anyone) unless they pump out a significant number of additional cars. Hang on, nobody's buying them because the costs to build them in Australia are prohibitively expensive (thanks unions). Good wages Holden's if you can get it but at some point the reality of the situation was going to come to light.
I've several family who over a number of years were employed by Holden's and a few friends and work colleagues with dads/husbands currently employed there. Certainly is going to be interesting and tough times ahead. I wonder though, those with some sense would already be looking for another job opportunity. I wonder if they will have enough trained employees to see them to the end of 2017.
I suspect it will be the workers of the associated parts industry that will be hardest hit.
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^^^^^
Close, but even smaller. Holden only produced 80,000 cars in 2012. The productivity commission reckons 300.000 cars from one plant is the minimum break even. Toyota needs to do 150.000 per year to be really on the ball.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-verdict-is-out-heres-why-australian-car-manufacturing-is-at-an-end-2013-12 (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-verdict-is-out-heres-why-australian-car-manufacturing-is-at-an-end-2013-12)
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^^^^^
Close, but even smaller. Holden only produced 80,000 cars in 2012. The productivity commission reckons 300.000 cars from one plant is the minimum break even. Toyota needs to do 150.000 per year to be really on the ball.
http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-verdict-is-out-heres-why-australian-car-manufacturing-is-at-an-end-2013-12 (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-verdict-is-out-heres-why-australian-car-manufacturing-is-at-an-end-2013-12)
Right you are, I looked up the article I read and the 209,000 was the total production of cars from all manufactures in Australia. Even worse than I thought!
(http://images.essentialkids.com.au/2013/12/13/5008743/wide-cars-graphic-1-620x349.png)
From http://www.smh.com.au/business/holden-numbers-tell-the-story-for-the-small-fry-of-general-motors-ecosystem-20131213-2zcyb.html (http://www.smh.com.au/business/holden-numbers-tell-the-story-for-the-small-fry-of-general-motors-ecosystem-20131213-2zcyb.html)
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So, let's all get out there and support the last existing Australian manufacturer. Go out there and buy your new Camry or Aurion NOW!
And yes, we have an Aurion in the driveway.
8)
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I wonder if they will have enough trained employees to see them to the end of 2017.
They can just bring in 457 visa workers like they are in other areas of industry.
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The unions would find a way to bleed it dry again.
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The unions would find a way to bleed it dry again.
Yeah dead right mate. Govt and taxes isn't all to blame. Unions are infact their own enemy.
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Unions are infact their own enemy.
Too right, just ask a Canadian.
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not sure if anyone here has heard the new holden add there playing on radio but never heard soo much propaganda bs in my life and that suxx balls because i consider myself to be a holden bogan, i guess there trying to save face
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Funny how fickle the buying public is. Ford were on the nose only months ago when they announced they were closing. My wife's sales figures took a nose dive (works for a Ford dealership).
Fast forward a few months and Holdens announces their imminent closure and my wife records her highest sales figures in three years (41 sales in one month).
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Speaking of Holdens, I broke the work one this morning. :police: thats all I'm saying.
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Speaking of Holdens, I broke the work one this morning. :police: thats all I'm saying.
How did that happen Fuji, were you chasing a Ford? ;D ;D
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......... nobody's buying them because the costs to build them in Australia are prohibitively expensive (thanks unions). Good wages Holden's if you can get it but at some point the reality of the situation was going to come to light.
this statement has me curious.....what sort of wage are we talking about roughly would a production line worker at a car plant such as Holden earn do you know?
i'm not trying to start any arguments, just wondering how much these people earn as i truely have no idea. would be nice to compare their wage (if anyone knows what it really is) to other job markets and see if it is considered over the top or not?
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How did that happen Fuji, were you chasing a Ford? ;D ;D
No he flew past the Ford but couldn't catch the Prius ;D
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this statement has me curious.....what sort of wage are we talking about roughly would a production line worker at a car plant such as Holden earn do you know?
They're up there in costs with Germany and Japan, both of which produce far more many vehicles per unit price cost.
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this statement has me curious.....what sort of wage are we talking about roughly would a production line worker at a car plant such as Holden earn
This makes interesting reading http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/high-wages-stall-holden-engine/story-fnkdypbm-1226779253154 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/high-wages-stall-holden-engine/story-fnkdypbm-1226779253154)
In case you can't read it, the summary is that wages are about double to triple what the should be for a general assembly line factory worker.
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This makes interesting reading http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/high-wages-stall-holden-engine/story-fnkdypbm-1226779253154 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/opinion/columnists/high-wages-stall-holden-engine/story-fnkdypbm-1226779253154)
In case you can't read it, the summary is that wages are about double to triple what the should be for a general assembly line factory worker.
cheers...it only opened a small section of that link for me so i couldn't read the entire article to see what it said. the part you've written about double or triple what a production line worker would get in other industries is what i was curious about in the first place.
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I don't think it is just the wages for causing the problem. They just don't sell enough cars in Australia or export them. The union will always push for better conditions for employees but in the end the company will only give what it can afford and sign an agreement that they can manage.
The high Australian dollar has not help Holden's and import tariffs have been cut as well. Other countries in this world subside their car manufactures.
I don't think we should just hand out 500 million dollars to Holden's to keep them going but I do think that we need to help them sell their cars by giving tax savings to company's to Australian businesses or people who buy Australian made cars. Just like a rebate.
It will be more than Holden's which will feel this problem (part suppliers). Also the states that manufacture cars will severely suffer in a economy way.
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Back in 03 the place I worked for was announced as closing as they were transferring the work to Brasil we had 2 plants but production volumes for only 1 in reality about 60% of one, so it was no surprise. In the regional town this place was the one to work at for pay and conditions, but that in the end wasn't to much of an issue more that no one would buy our equipment we were being outsold by an American built equipment when the dollar was in the 50's which should of been to our advantage.
It was front page news and lead story on the local news.
What was interesting in the link from the Australian was the AMWU saying they won't compete on labour costs, and unfortunately in a global market we have to, as we all as a generalisation want more for less. Personally I would rather see the money go to agriculture. Farmers are still getting the same price as they were 10 years ago and most likely more,,.
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Some info to read.
http://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-other-countries-subsidise-their-car-industry-more-than-we-do-16308 (http://theconversation.com/factcheck-do-other-countries-subsidise-their-car-industry-more-than-we-do-16308)
http://www.ppbadvisory.com/uploads/a381-00464INS-Auto-Insight-May-2013.pdf (http://www.ppbadvisory.com/uploads/a381-00464INS-Auto-Insight-May-2013.pdf)
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Speaking of Holdens, I broke the work one this morning. :police: thats all I'm saying.
Is there something you want to tell us about ,m ??? . Just be a bit more Sapphic about " broke the work one "
Bloody Hoon That's our taxes at work you know
signed Mr Walker :cup: :cheers: