MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: dirtpilot on December 16, 2013, 10:29:53 PM
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I have a 2010 MN Triton ute and have had a lot of trouble with it, mostly related to the techno nature of the CRD setup. Had a older Triton with the 2.8 older type diesel engine and was happy with that. Considering going back to a 4.2 Patrol ute. Anyone gone backwards? What you think?
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Doesn't really matter what we think mate, it's your truck.
But if you want my 2c worth. I won't be buying another one.
IMHO, waaaaay over rated. My current ride is. 2011 Challenger with the 2.5 motor.
When I decide to upgrade, I'm going back to a petrol V6 or V8.
Can't beat cubes.
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Went from a Triton to a Patrol, could not be happier with my 4.2L of goodness ;D
Its no rocket ship but I know its going to get me most places I want to get too and get me back
GG
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Yes, went from D40 navara 2.5l to an old school 1 HZ 4.2l Cruiser, you can't beat engine capacity.
Regards
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I also went from a 4 cylinder TD ute to a 1HZ Cruiser and also couldn’t be happier. But in saying that I do miss the turbo on any slight incline on the road.
While the ute was a little better on paper, towing the trailer on long soft sand patches the IHZ wins hands down.
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used to have the NL Triton (3.1l turbo diesel) now run a 1993 3.1 Jackaroo Turbo diesel
Damn I miss the Triton, that engine was very very nice. BUT it did only have around 60k on it when I had to get rid of it.
My opinion....older ones will last longer and are easier to work on, newer ones (esp small capacity with high boost turbo) work really well but dont know how they will hold up long term.
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We have a ML triton with the 3.2 commonrail and I won't be getting another late model diesel.
I also have a older defender 300tdi and it's simple and never missed a beat in the 2 years I have had it. Easy to work on and do all your own services not so with New commonrails. We will be trading the triton soon cause of unresolved engine problems and going back to a Toyota in petrol. ;D
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Thanks for the replies. Good to hear i'm not the only one who thinks the modern diesels are over rated. I am really dissapointed with the Triton and just cannot make myself buy a new Triton or Dmax (only ones that are reasonably priced). So i might start looking for a mint Patrol ST 4.2 tdi 05 or 06.
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Had an 06 CRD D4D hilux SR5 dual cab. One of the best vehicles I ever owned although injection rattle when cold was a little disconcerting.
Traded it in 2010 or 2011 for an identical vehicle and got the euro 4 or whatever compliant version of the same.
What a pile of crapp. Couldn't believe how they messed up a good vehicle over European pollution standards. Even the auto trans, mechanically identical to the earlier one had been messed up due to reprogramming the gear change characteristics.
Toyota service tested the vehicle several times and said it was performing to specification.
Hated the rattly thing that much I sold it inside a year and took a big loss to boot.
Went and found a mint 2006 Troopy RV with the 1HD-FTE direct injection factory Turbo 4.2l diesel.
Sweet as... no rattles and proven good for 400K + kms
Should have bought one in 2006 and I would have saved myself about $35G
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Easy to work on and do all your own services not so with New commonrails.
As the owner of an old school 4M40 mechanical injected Pajero, and looking to update to a common rail version (and also a diesel mechanic in a previous life) I am curious why you consider the Triton to hard to service yourself. Engine oil, filter, fuel filter all easy to do. Tappet clearances a hell of a lot easier than the old single cam 4M40 with shim adjustment. Even the injection pump can probably be removed without to much thought about timing (it's just a pressure producing pump), although never having pulled one off I am happy to be corrected). I'm sure the front mounted intercooler is a lot harder to remove/refit compared to the older top mount, but at least you don't have to take it of every time you want to do more than change the oil and filter. But then again the mounting of the intercooler is purely a packaging issue, doesn't really matter whether it's CRD or not.
I am in to minds as to whether I want a vehicle with potentially expensive "consumable" injectors and a relatively cheap pump, or cheaper injectors and a more expensive pump ???.
Mind you I can certainly see the attraction of one the last 1HD-FTE motors. Just a pity they don't come in a mid sized wagon.
Peter
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As the owner of an old school 4M40 mechanical injected Pajero, and looking to update to a common rail version (and also a diesel mechanic in a previous life) I am curious why you consider the Triton to hard to service yourself. Engine oil, filter, fuel filter all easy to do. Tappet clearances a hell of a lot easier than the old single cam 4M40 with shim adjustment. Even the injection pump can probably be removed without to much thought about timing (it's just a pressure producing pump), although never having pulled one off I am happy to be corrected). I'm sure the front mounted intercooler is a lot harder to remove/refit compared to the older top mount, but at least you don't have to take it of every time you want to do more than change the oil and filter. But then again the mounting of the intercooler is purely a packaging issue, doesn't really matter whether it's CRD or not.
I am in to minds as to whether I want a vehicle with potentially expensive "consumable" injectors and a relatively cheap pump, or cheaper injectors and a more expensive pump ???.
Mind you I can certainly see the attraction of one the last 1HD-FTE motors. Just a pity they don't come in a mid sized wagon.
Peter
You sure? The 2.5 needs valve clearances checked every 30,000km. To do this the fuel rail has to come off. Every six times the pipes have to be replaced. Adds $400 to 700 to that service. Like to see a home mech do that. And don't get me started on removing the carbon build up every 60,000km, timing belt every 100,000km, SCV valves failing, turbo's lasting 90,000km ($3500), injectors at 170,000km ($3,000).............. love that car- NOT!
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You sure? The 2.5 needs valve clearances checked every 30,000km. To do this the fuel rail has to come off. Every six times the pipes have to be replaced. Adds $400 to 700 to that service. Like to see a home mech do that. And don't get me started on removing the carbon build up every 60,000km, timing belt every 100,000km, SCV valves failing, turbo's lasting 90,000km ($3500), injectors at 170,000km ($3,000).............. love that car- NOT!
True that mate and why my triton affair lasted only months >:D >:D >:D
Nick08.. you wont look back mate :cup:, I spend more on fuel but way way less on servicing and in 12mths of ownership not one issue on the 100, fuel in and drive. the triton was at MITSI every other week. drove me nuts.
That said I know some people get a good one, same with Patrols there appears to be massive discrepancies in fuel usage on the same models, buying a car should not be a 50K lottery ticket ???
Not Knocking them compleatly and for those with them and happy :cup: :cup: :cup: but for me late model CRD motors are last on my list of preferences.
Jet ;D ;D
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I test drove a heap of new & late model CRD when looking for a 4by. In the end bought a petrol 80. Yeah its gonna suck the juice but the equivalent in a TD was between $10-15k. I just like the petrol power and simplicity.
I also looked at a few 100TD. But again couldn't justify the $$$ on a 10 year old car with plenty of k's.
But in a could afford one, Id love to own a TD 200.
I think a 4.2 patrol would be a nice "upgrade" for you
Swannie
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Had 2.5 Navara and went to a 100 series v8 and couldn't be happier...
Eddy
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Ns pajero to fj cruiser couldn't be happier no more $1000 services.
Diesels are getting smaller and more powerful something has to give.
One of the reasons why the prado d4d has never tried to be king of the horsepower hierarchy.
Longevity over HP.
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I think buying a new one is still ok, but you have to take into account that you really need to off load it when the warranty runs out. Also re sale values drop through the floor once they have done a few km. For me, i am over it at the moment.
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You sure? The 2.5 needs valve clearances checked every 30,000km. To do this the fuel rail has to come off. Every six times the pipes have to be replaced. Adds $400 to 700 to that service. Like to see a home mech do that. And don't get me started on removing the carbon build up every 60,000km, timing belt every 100,000km, SCV valves failing, turbo's lasting 90,000km ($3500), injectors at 170,000km ($3,000).............. love that car- NOT!
Sorry. My query was referring more to Nick 08's 3.2L 4m41 powered ML Triton. I aren't really into low tech, cubic inches, but still draw the line at 2.5L high boost Triton, Navara, Amarock etc type donks regardless of the servicing issues. Didn't realise there were so many issues with the MN 2.5L.
Not wanting to question the work you had done on your car but I do have a few queries (the mechanic in me querying less than professional dealers >:( )
Are you suggesting the fuel rails have to be replaced every 6th time the valves are done ie 30000km x 6 = 180000km? I have never worked on a modern CRD but from what I have seen I thought they just ran separate injection pipes from an external fuel rail (typically mounted beside the block, above the fuel pump) to each individual injector, the pipe being connected to the injector outside the rocker cover.
Timing belt at 100000km. Thats basically a given for any Jap belt driven cam. I thought the Toyota 6s were also belt driven. What are their belt replacement intervals?
Carbon build up seems to be an issue for any EGR diesel doing a lot of city work.
Turbos lasting 90000km. Ouch. How did they justify that not being a warranty job?
Injectors $3000. Seems cheap. I thought Toyota ones cost that much each. At least mechanical injectors can be rebuilt, but if you had to replace them they would probably cost at least that.
Ah huh just found this on the Triton forum - I must stress to all and in particular those who don't use mitsi service. $150 of the cost was replacement of 2 injector pipes. These need to be removed for tappet adjustment. Apparantly they can only be reused 4 times but must also be inspected for pitting prior to refitting. Mine were pitted as shown to me by the dealer. These pipe fittings compress in their tapered fittings and must be torqued correctly with a specific tool which a lot of independants are unlikely to have.
Due to high pressure diesel these can leak if not maintained, the leak ends up in the motor and the result, catastrophic engine failure. If this occurs and the items have not been maintained or replaced at max usage MMAL will not cover for warranty.
This means expensive................
Just like an old fashioned mechanical injected truck motor (but lower injector pressure so less susceptible to wear).
Reminds me of an old 50t dump truck I serviced on a demo site once. Old GM 8V71 engine. Dropped 50 litres of "oil" out. Only had to put 20 litres back in. I said to customer "I think there is something seriously wrong with the injection system". "Na. She'll be right." :-[ And just like a good old fashioned lump of Yanky iron, it just kept going....... ???
Peter
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Sorry. My query was referring more to Nick 08's 3.2L 4m41 powered ML Triton. I aren't really into low tech, cubic inches, but still draw the line at 2.5L high boost Triton, Navara, Amarock etc type donks regardless of the servicing issues. Didn't realise there were so many issues with the MN 2.5L.
Not wanting to question the work you had done on your car but I do have a few queries (the mechanic in me querying less than professional dealers >:( )
Are you suggesting the fuel rails have to be replaced every 6th time the valves are done ie 30000km x 6 = 180000km? I have never worked on a modern CRD but from what I have seen I thought they just ran separate injection pipes from an external fuel rail (typically mounted beside the block, above the fuel pump) to each individual injector, the pipe being connected to the injector outside the rocker cover.
Timing belt at 100000km. Thats basically a given for any Jap belt driven cam. I thought the Toyota 6s were also belt driven. What are their belt replacement intervals?
Carbon build up seems to be an issue for any EGR diesel doing a lot of city work.
Turbos lasting 90000km. Ouch. How did they justify that not being a warranty job?
Injectors $3000. Seems cheap. I thought Toyota ones cost that much each. At least mechanical injectors can be rebuilt, but if you had to replace them they would probably cost at least that.
Ah huh just found this on the Triton forum -
Just like an old fashioned mechanical injected truck motor (but lower injector pressure so less susceptible to wear).
Reminds me of an old 50t dump truck I serviced on a demo site once. Old GM 8V71 engine. Dropped 50 litres of "oil" out. Only had to put 20 litres back in. I said to customer "I think there is something seriously wrong with the injection system". "Na. She'll be right." :-[ And just like a good old fashioned lump of Yanky iron, it just kept going....... ???
Peter
Yhe first turbo was done under warranty. I have used about 3 different Mitsubishi service centers. $3000 was cheap because i know a diesel mechanic, got the injectors at trade price. Timing belts are just annoying, the 3.2 did not have them. Mitsubishi has a good warranty but its no good if the cars getting fixed all the time. Time off road matters to me.
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Mitsubishi has a good warranty but its no good if the cars getting fixed all the time. Time off road matters to me.
I would also agree with this statement, I found MMA the best warranty that I have dealt with, but as you say that only goes so far..car off the road every other week for 3 days starts to wear thin very quickly.
Jet ;D
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I would also agree with this statement, I found MMA the best warranty that I have dealt with, but as you say that only goes so far..car off the road every other week for 3 days starts to wear thin very quickly.
Jet ;D
They always need it for a day, minor, major service and warranty repairs. Day lost working=costs money, warranty or no warranty.
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love my 4 litre Prado. Lots of power, smooth and much cheaper to buy/ service than D4D. many will disagree with me but its always horses for courses and after owning 3 diesels of different brands I fell out of love with them.
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Ummmm I don't think I ever left! Indirect mechanical injected td42 is modern for me! Old and slow but only need one wire to the fuel solenoid to run. For me it gives peace of mind that there is less to go wrong in isolated areas.
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I think most peoples decision will actually come down to whether they want a modern car feel or a 10 year old one. The engine choice would be secondary to bluetooth connectivity and satnav etc.
I am quite happy with my modern auto Pajero diesel and by the time it needs home servicing it won't be a modern engine. Not that it is now really as its been around since the early 2000s in one form or another. It will be the old reliable engine people talk about as the good old days :-)
I would have been just as happy with a petrol motor and I have been in the past but outback towing needs fuel efficiency.
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A mate has the 150 Prado diesel. It's impressive in both power and frugal economy especially when towing his loaded Kimberly kamper......but.....I will keep my TD 100 series for its longevity and sheer grunt till the cows come home.
Toyotas 1HD-FTE 4.2 turbo has to be the best mix of old school reliability with just enough modern jiggawhatsits to keep it ahead of the pack. If you think the 100 IFS chassis is too soft for you then the same engine I in the 78/79 series utes and troopies albeit slightly de tuned.
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I think most peoples decision will actually come down to whether they want a modern car feel or a 10 year old one. The engine choice would be secondary to bluetooth connectivity and satnav etc.
I am quite happy with my modern auto Pajero diesel and by the time it needs home servicing it won't be a modern engine. Not that it is now really as its been around since the early 2000s in one form or another. It will be the old reliable engine people talk about as the good old days :-)
I would have been just as happy with a petrol motor and I have been in the past but outback towing needs fuel efficiency.
I agree with you there, but with a lot on the new technology out their, for minimal outlay you can put in a decent Audio visual system that gives you the latest Blue tooth & reverse camera options. Plenty of things that are relatively cheap to create a modern feel to your interior & also the driving experience
Swannie
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I agree with you there, but with a lot on the new technology out their, for minimal outlay you can put in a decent Audio visual system that gives you the latest Blue tooth & reverse camera options. Plenty of things that are relatively cheap to create a modern feel to your interior & also the driving experience
Swannie
I agree with you there. I used to work in the car audio industry.
However for most people if you sat them in a 4.2 manual GU or 105 or a 10 year old Prado or Pajero etc they are very different cars to their new equivalents. Even a Patrol and Pajero that has the same general body and suspension has a different feel to look at and drive.
You will notice that car manufacturers don't advertise power and engine size etc anymore. It's all about image and comforts.
I personally would prefer something with all the benefits of old technology plus all the benefits of the new technology but they have yet to make that model.
My last car was a 1994 Discovery manual V8. There was nothing I couldn't fix on it and it never left me stranded but for 99% of the driving we do these days I'd take our 4M41 auto Pajero every time.
One thing I think can be an issue is what other cars you drive. If you only drive 20 year old diesels then you don't know any different. However if you drive a new car for work often or have another modern car then you can constantly compare and it generally isn't favourable to your old car. Unless it is the 76 series we have here. It made my old Land Rover feel new again.
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I am about to find out. Pulled the trigger on a 06 ST Patrol ute. 8)
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I am about to find out. Pulled the trigger on a 06 ST Patrol ute. 8)
Didn't you have a Triton and complain about problems with it ??
And now have gone to a Patrol with the hand grenade engine ?? or did you score the 4.2 ??
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4.2
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We didn`t go from a modern diesel, however we now have a 1991 TF Rodeo dual cab, 2.8 turbo diesel, free flow exhaust and intercooler. It is in excellent condition, had 150,000 klms, 2 previous owners and service manuals. Tows our 17 ft 6 poptop caravan like a breeze, just returned from a trip through the Snowy Mountains, no problems at all 8)
Cheers, Robyn
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One of my vehicles is a '93 4.2 Diesel after market turbo 'Cruiser ute with 3" pipe.
It has power to burn!
Just replaced fuel pump at 300,000k for $1,300 fitted & injectors are around $90 each.
Have a look at what the latest injectors cost :o :o
Good Luck with it.
Steffo
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One thing I think can be an issue is what other cars you drive. If you only drive 20 year old diesels then you don't know any different. However if you drive a new car for work often or have another modern car then you can constantly compare and it generally isn't favourable to your old car.
Thats us. 20 year old tourer (the Paj) and 20 year old shopping trolley (the Laser). My work car, VE SV6 (but no personal use >:().
And the Mrs wonders why I think our own two cars are old heaps of crap that she loves. ???
And keeping with the topic of expensive late model cars - my best mate just arrived "home". He works in the NW, with his work area covering from Kunnanarra to Darwin. Company car is a current D4D Hilux with under 50000km on the clock. Recently run out of grunt (I had recently visited him and I stalled it numerous times, even though I had just got out of my 20 year old Paj loaded to no more than maximum GCM (and not a kilo more :angel:). The diagnosis. Three new injectors please. $5000. Not covered by warranty because they were damaged by dirty fuel. What about number 4 injector? The dirty fuel didn't affect that one ???).
Peter
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Ok so i have had the new/old Patrol ute for a week now. Must say very happy with it. I searched for a late 06 with dual airbags. Nice roomy cabin, comfy seats, engine is nice to drive, rides better, looks better, 2 big mofo 90 liter tanks standard, fuel economy on the first tank is similar and the thing feels built tough. So far so good.
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And keeping with the topic of expensive late model cars - my best mate just arrived "home". He works in the NW, with his work area covering from Kunnanarra to Darwin. Company car is a current D4D Hilux with under 50000km on the clock. Recently run out of grunt (I had recently visited him and I stalled it numerous times, even though I had just got out of my 20 year old Paj loaded to no more than maximum GCM (and not a kilo more :angel:). The diagnosis. Three new injectors please. $5000. Not covered by warranty because they were damaged by dirty fuel. What about number 4 injector? The dirty fuel didn't affect that one ???).
Whoops. This was actually the second lot of replacement injectors in the last 6 months due to "dirty fuel". Not covered by warranty, even though a 4 micro filter was added after the first lot of injectors had been done. >:( >:(
Peter
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I went to an 80 series 4.2 turbo with auto one year ago, very lucky to pick up a one owner vehicle. Just recently had the injector pump rebuilt at 378,000k's. I do all the servicing at home and it is reliable as night following day. It has had an interior upgrade with Stratos seats and modern audio unit and a MOMO steering wheel. It is a comfortable touring vehicle. Our road car is now a Golf 6 GTI. We traded a Golf 5 GT diesel with 125kw and 350 nm of torque. A rocketship of a high performance diesel. Piezo injectors cost $1750ea and one was starting to play up at 70,000k's. Modern diesels are super engines but high strung. When the 80 series needs a heart transplant I will defiantly keep it and upgrade the engine with an intercooler and have a rebuild done.
James
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I won't be buying a modern diesel ever again. As stated they are pretty nice to drive and have plenty of power but they are too highly strung to be a long term proposition. Larger capacity modern CRDs like the TTV8 Cruiser may be teh exception but from what I've read on the internet they are not without there own problems
My CRD GI will be replaced with a petrol 4by with a Toyota badge
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Ive had numerous 4WD's over the years and the current V8 100 series I have now is far and away the best car I've owned. Thirsty yes, but the savings from the extra 20-25K you pay for a T/D and the servicing sure buys you A lot of petrol!!!! It would also pull a bend out of a river!!! Awesome off-road and towed camper up to Fraser like it wasn't on the back. One before was a grenade and I don't want to ever go there again as I'm also scared of those small diesels with high output. I reckon the 4.2 patrols are a good thing and there are still some good ones around. Ask MarkGU about his.
Dave