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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: lindamc on November 10, 2013, 07:09:02 AM

Title: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: lindamc on November 10, 2013, 07:09:02 AM
I am wondering why people need to add diff lockers on their vehicles when by changing the gears to high lock or low lock this locks the diff? Is this not locking all the diffs, maybe just the centre one or something? Obviously my 4wd training course didnt all sink in. My car is a prado with fulltime 4wd, front, back and centre diff.

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Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: D4D on November 10, 2013, 07:22:33 AM
Prado only locks centre diff. Diff locks front and rear allow greater traction when you lift a wheel or one wheel is spinning as it drives both wheels with a 50:50 power split.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: edz on November 10, 2013, 07:22:58 AM
G,Day Lindamc, Front and rear diff locks are a similar idear in principle to the central diff lock youre saying about ..
Oon an all wheel drive the tourqe / power is fed aprox 60 / 40 or 70 / 30 % in a front to rear bias , when you hit the center diff lock button etc it locks up the center diff to send 50 % power / tourqe to the front / rear diff, but you are only actually driving one wheel at at each end of the truck at the same time  ..
With front rear diff locks when you lock the diff it drives both wheels on each axle at the same speed as they are now joined by a solid conection between them .
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: ozbogwam on November 10, 2013, 07:25:48 AM
Diff locks lock both wheels on the same differential so that they both receive equal power. A differential by its very nature disperses power unevenly to each wheel so that when you are turning a corner you don't scrub your inner wheel when turning.

In an off road situation this uneven distribution of power causes problem as the wheel with the least resistance, which can be the wheel that is in the air or spinning in mud or sand, gets all the power. This leaves you stuck. With the diff locks on both tyres get all the power helping you through the ibstacle
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Diesel Power on November 10, 2013, 07:31:50 AM
By hitting the centre diff lock that will send equal amount of torque to your front an

d rear diff.
Then you need diff locks to send equal torque to left and right side as Toyota LSDs are junk (they slip too much).

So when you lock your centre diff and FnR lockers you will have an equal 25% drive to all wheels.
Regards
Angus.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Jason B on November 10, 2013, 07:38:00 AM
Some 4wds have a centre diff that locks drive front and rear. Most have a limited slip diff in the rear, that lock up automatically when needed however they never fully lock up hence the name limited slip also, Toyota limited slip diffs are crap. The front diffs in most 4wds is an open diff so that you can still steer easily around corners etc.

Diff locks physically lock drive in the diff from side to side so that the axels on each side of the diff are traveling at the same speed all of the time. If you have a locker both front and rear you have a sensational amount of grip available as all 4 wheels have drive no matter what. Without them I'm a normal set up the wheels with the least amount of grip will spin and you don't go iny where in the worst of case.

Lockers can only be use in slippery conditions as the wheels need the ability to slip, otherwise you will break things like axels and cv joints. You also essentially need to be traveling straight as the different wheel speeds if going around corners etc can also place load on components and break them.

The negative with lockers in my opinion is that the rear limited slip diff must be replaced with an open diff when a locker is fitted. So the auto style is lost and you must engage the locker.

Hope that helps a bit.

Jas
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Bigsteve on November 10, 2013, 07:38:54 AM
Hi Linda

On your prado there are three diffs, front, rear and central.  When in normal High mode all three diffs are open and equal torque is supplied to all wheels.  If one wheel lifts then you lose drive. When you go into High Lock or Low Lock the center the Center diff only is locked.  This means the front and rear diffs turn at the same rate and of one wheel is lifted (say front) power is still sent to the rear diff.

When two wheels loose traction on the front and rear then even with the Center diff locked you'll loose drive as all the toque is sent to the wheels spinning.

A rear or front diff locker will keep both the wheels turning at the same rate even if one has no traction.

On Prados there is a rear limited slip diff which should keep some torque going to both wheels when one is spinning, but these are notoriously bad and don't work well.  If looking at one in a prado I'd start with a rear e-locker so not to stress the front cv's and not having to worry about compressors and leaking seals.  Having said that I don't have lockers and haven't needed them, just drive appropriately for the conditions. Not to say I won't get them at some point, but if building up a 4wd there are other items I would look at first.

S


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Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: lindamc on November 10, 2013, 07:41:00 AM
Thank you guys,  you have helped me see how it works. now to decide if i need them or not ... i cant imagine i would get my self in to many situations of not having wheels on the ground , more likely to get stuck in sand but i would have jules trax things to help out and a shovel . :)
So do you guys use these front and rear locks much and if not are u still glad you have them?
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: oldmate on November 10, 2013, 07:49:07 AM
Thank you guys,  you have helped me see how it works. now to decide if i need them or not ... i cant imagine i would get my self in to many situations of not having wheels on the ground , more likely to get stuck in sand but i would have jules trax things to help out and a shovel . :)
So do you guys use these front and rear locks much and if not are u still glad you have them?

I would spend a few years learning how to drive your 4wd in situations without diff locks. It will teach you how to pick smarter lines through obstacles or to go around them. Diff locks are great but can get you into more problems than they get you out of sometimes.
No the last time I needed my diff lock was well over 12 moths ago, having said that on my last 5 camping trips I haven't even put it in 4wd.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: rodw on November 10, 2013, 07:49:47 AM
In an AWD vehicle the front and rear axles can travel different distances because  of turns etc so a centre diff allows for this. If this problem was ignored, the drive line would bind up on bitumen and shafts would snap! When you lock the centre diff, it is like engaging 4WD and locking the hubs in a vehicle with part time 4WD.

So without centre Diffs and ignoring all the fancy electronic offroad features creeping in to vehicles today, the axle diff will basically send all torque to the wheel with the least load. So if you put one wheel in the air, it will spin and forward motion ceases. Now in a 4WD, With a bit of luck, the other axle might still be driving so you keep moving.

If you have axle diff locks, engaging them will lock the axle so that if one wheel turns, the other must also turn.

Having axle diff locks means you need less momentum to get over an obstacle so lower revs and more torque. You don't have to hit an obstacle hard enough to bounce over the low/no traction bits. This then permits a much more controlled approach that is less likely to damage the track or the vehicle.

Electronic traction control on an open diff attempts to do the same thing by sensing a slipping wheel on an axle and applying the brakes to that wheel only. This evens up the torque on both sides of the axle so forward motion starts again.

One point worth noting that most 4wd's including the Prado have rear limited slip Diffs. These require a higher torque differential across  the axle before slippage occurs. Installing a locker replaces the LSD with an open diff so you may find yourself engaging the rear diff lock wher you could just drive on previously.

Diff locks are not usually needed on sand as the idea is to make sure you don't spin a wheel and dig in. Crossing the axles up and getting a front and back wheel spinning is not that hard to do. If possible approach an obstacle square on so both wheels have grip.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Patr80l on November 10, 2013, 07:56:26 AM
Without repeating what has already been said; 99% of us never get into a situation where you'd need axle diff locks.
My understanding of what they do is not 50:50 power distribution etc.   What they do is force all wheels to turn together, whether that have grip or not.   That means that if three wheels have no traction, the one with grip will use 100% of the power.    Without a lock, the differential allows the wheel without grip to spin while the others don't turn.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: MadMarv on November 10, 2013, 07:58:59 AM
all depends on the type of traveling you want to do ... for me its high on my wish list .. just under the winch .. but then I want to do more solo traveling ... the old maxtrax or similar are probably a cheaper option and never go astray in your recovery kit either.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: lindamc on November 10, 2013, 08:03:01 AM
Ok thanks guys it must be frustrating trying to teach a female about these things but you have all done very well. So i will leave the vehicle without lockers for now and just concentrate on never having less than 3 wheels on the ground , picking a good line to drive and not being silly.

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Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: rodw on November 10, 2013, 08:10:07 AM
Without repeating what has already been said; 99% of us never get into a situation where you'd need axle diff locks.

I agree for touring this holds true as we tend not to take risks a long way from home. I will say it was nice when in the Flinders Ranges to slip the lockers in and gently climb up to a lookout with a Telstra  repeater tower  on it.

Ok thanks guys it must be frustrating trying to teach a female about these things but you have all done very well. So i will leave the vehicle without lockers for now and just concentrate on never having less than 3 wheels on the ground , picking a good line to drive and not being silly.

Sent from my GT-I9100T using Tapatalk 2



A good approach. When we talk about picking a line, a large part of it is to ignore the track surface and keep the axles as level as possible by just focussing on the wheel tracks you will take. The fact that you might be 4 foot off the ground under the vehicle then does not matter unless you fall in the hole!
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: duggie on November 10, 2013, 08:33:49 AM
For the average person going camping/four wheel driving diff locks are just bragging rights. Until you go to the extreme out and away camping spots with a lot of very rough tracks or extremely steep climbs your diff locks will very rarely if never be used. For the price you will spend on fitting the diff locks you could buy the better off road tyres and a bloody good winch and have a fair amount of change left over .  I class diff locks as a want not a need.

In saying this I do have my GQ Nissan Patrol fitted with a front diff lock, this was fitted because I was going on a trip to the tip of Cape York as a recovery vehicle, I need to be able to get power to all four wheels to assist those who needed to be recovered. Since that trip I have only engaged my locker once and that was only to ensure that the locker was still working.

Experience in four wheel driving will allow you to be able to get where you want to go with out the need for lockers.

cheers duggie
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: DannyG on November 10, 2013, 08:56:43 AM
I've never engaged my lockers and I've done most of the iconic hard core Tassie 4wd tracks and quite a few on the big island.

Oh and the reason I've never used them is because I can't afford them, I haven't got any ;) But I do drive a Patrol ;D
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: time on November 10, 2013, 09:59:51 AM
Have a read here (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm), it explains diffs and and their various iterations well.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 10, 2013, 10:26:38 AM
Sometimes diagrams help explain or only confuse more. 

http://www.lcool.org/technical/diffs/diffs.html

This example is talking about the 80 Series Land Cruiser but the Prado's run a system with the same basics.

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: GeoffA on November 10, 2013, 10:30:33 AM
......with diff locks you can get REALLY stuck........
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 10, 2013, 10:40:37 AM
Or more fun

(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/6478/nyyr.jpg)


Diff locks can be an expensive outlay but really you can do a lot of 4wding with ever needing diff locks.  My advice for anyone curious about getting diff locks is to full understand what they do and more so when you would need them and are you really going to be driving anything that requires you using diff locks. 
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Bird on November 10, 2013, 11:10:01 AM
I would spend a few years learning how to drive your 4wd in situations without diff locks. It will teach you how to pick smarter lines through obstacles or to go around them. Diff locks are great but can get you into more problems than they get you out of sometimes.
No the last time I needed my diff lock was well over 12 moths ago, having said that on my last 5 camping trips I haven't even put it in 4wd.

 :cheers:
Great advice.. 99% of people buy lockers cause they are told by the store they need them, or they hear that Tuff truck people use them.. more or less it makes them feel hardcore for no reason.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: KingBilly on November 10, 2013, 11:38:26 AM
(http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/6478/nyyr.jpg)


Hi Linda, some great replies above but what it all boils down to, is what sort of driving do you intend to do?  If you want to get into adventurous challenges on mountain tracks or go to 4X4 parks and test your skills, in similar circumstances to the above example, diff locks may be an advantage.  Obviously there are other examples where diff locks may help but they are often only a one-off, or a once in a vehicle's lifetime, type of experience.

If you just intend to take a dirt road, be it the Plenty Highway or CSR, to your favourite camp spot, diff locks would, in 99.9% of examples, not be needed.  Some of the roads to the Cape are a possible exception but can be driven safely with a winch and travelling with support.

I agree with oldmate, take your time getting to know your vehicle.  Take your time working out what you want to do with it.  Then make a decision.

KB
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 10, 2013, 11:57:31 AM
I agree 100% KB.  I enjoy the harder 4wding so my vehicles are twin locked.  In saying that Diff Locks are not the be all and end all.  They do get you out of a lot of situations but before diff locks I make sure I have a winch.  A far more useful piece of kit that will safe you and your travelling partners and can also help to clear fallen obstacles that otherwise can stop your plans.   
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: lindamc on November 10, 2013, 01:32:23 PM

Do i want to be in a situation like your picture KB??    nooooooooooooo
I enjoy moderate 4wding, exploring, not extreme. Way to scary for me.


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Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: D4D on November 10, 2013, 01:40:47 PM
Keep in mind even a simple track can turn pear shaped in an instant, you could find yourself in a situation like the Hilux above quite easily. Slippery up hill track, lose traction or miss a gear, slide backwards and drop into a rut. Diff locks can be a great traction aid to keep/get you out of strife. This is where knowing what your vehicle is capable of is required and this comes from practice. In your case I'd probably fit tyres and suspension before diff locks.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: ozbogwam on November 10, 2013, 01:42:09 PM
They don't only need to be used for extreme stuff they can also get you out of a ditch, help towing a trailer over a tricky little bit. They will lessen track damage, they can lessen strain and shock on the drive train, get you through those tricky little sections on an otherwise mild track.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: KingBilly on November 10, 2013, 02:05:22 PM
Do i want to be in a situation like your picture KB??    nooooooooooooo
I enjoy moderate 4wding, exploring, not extreme. Way to scary for me.

 ;D ;D ;D  Not me Linda, I stopped doing that years ago.

KB
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: duggie on November 10, 2013, 04:07:21 PM
they can lessen strain and shock on the drive train,

Not quite true, more often than not the diff lock will do damage.  EG: Front wheel lifts off the ground and is spinning at full noise, wheel come back down onto solid ground and there is no slippage, front axle snapped. That is just one example, there are many more.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 10, 2013, 04:09:22 PM
Not quite true, more often than not the diff lock will do damage.  EG: Front wheel lifts off the ground and is spinning at full noise, wheel come back down onto solid ground and there is no slippage, front axle snapped. That is just one example, there are many more.

That is driver error not the Lockers fault
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: 02-SR5 on November 10, 2013, 04:14:47 PM
I have a factory rear diff lock.

The problem I have is, it can only be selected when in low range with centre diff lock first.

My previous 4wd had selectable ARB air lockers front and rear. It was good to be able to select the rear locker when needed, not when the car selected it.

Best money spent. Never used the winch, they help avoid getting bogged, they increased the strength of the diff centre and it just walked over everything. Great in a torsion bar IFS front end Hilux.

Oh, bragging rights too.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: ozbogwam on November 10, 2013, 04:31:45 PM

Not quite true, more often than not the diff lock will do damage.  EG: Front wheel lifts off the ground and is spinning at full noise, wheel come back down onto solid ground and there is no slippage, front axle snapped. That is just one example, there are many more.
With a diff lock that scenario is much less likely to happen, much more of a problem with an open diffed vehicle.

From my experience driving double diff locked 4wds drive line strain is considerably less as you don't need wheel speed to tackle obstacles, you also are less likely to bind a wheel up against an obstacle. You can tackle things a lot slower and with much more control than with open diffs.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: austastar on November 10, 2013, 04:42:47 PM

Hi

My previous 4wd had selectable ARB air lockers front and rear. It was good to be able to select the rear locker when needed, not when the car selected it.


I can't think of a reason to lock the rear diff before the center diff.



... driving double diff locked 4wds drive line strain is considerably less as you don't need wheel speed to tackle obstacles,



Yes, you can cross an obstacle with less momentum, but if you have a wheel in the air, the work and therefore load/strain is now no longer shared across the axle, and the strain on the axle driving the wheel on the ground is doubled.


cheers
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: ozbogwam on November 10, 2013, 04:46:39 PM
With an open diff the wheel in the air gets all the power so is basically useless in helping you over the obstacle. In many cases it is just a minimal amount of power required to get you through which is why sometimes a dab of the brakes can help.

If I had the funds I'd put a front locker in the GU
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: wholehog on November 10, 2013, 05:11:34 PM
Keep in mind even a simple track can turn pear shaped in an instant, you could find yourself in a situation like the Hilux above quite easily. Slippery up hill track, lose traction or miss a gear, slide backwards and drop into a rut.
To true....i kinda liken a set of lockers to that of an insurance policy.....U pay thru the nose for something u may only need a few times,but perhaps the peace of mind knowing that if u slip into a situation like the hilux above,no winch etc etc ,then perhaps lockers is the answer :cheers:
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: 02-SR5 on November 10, 2013, 05:37:00 PM
Hi


I can't think of a reason to lock the rear diff before the center diff.



One time I got a bit stuck on a nature strip. Being an open diff, the right hand wheel was spinning freely. The problem with my 4wd, like a lot of other newer models, I can't select 4wd as it needs to roll a couple of meters to engage. Because it wouldn't go into 4wd, no centre diff, no low range, no rear diff lock. If I could turn the locker on when required, it would of driven straight out.

I just prefer having the option, not when the car decides. My only pet hate with new cars. They tell you when.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: austastar on November 10, 2013, 05:49:11 PM
Quote
The problem with my 4wd, like a lot of other newer models, I can't select 4wd as it needs to roll a couple of meters to engage.


Hi,
   Hmm, that is one I was not aware of.


My only experience of 4wd is with older Toyota light tankers in the Tas Fire service, and the Land Rover ute I bought when I retired. Not a lot of tricky stuff to learn with them.


cheers
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: 02-SR5 on November 10, 2013, 05:52:35 PM
Yea mate, it is pretty annoying. Especially when you come out of 4wd and it won't disengage straight away. At times I have had to reverse a couple of metres before it would disengage.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: discoteddy on November 10, 2013, 06:49:10 PM
With a diff lock that scenario is much less likely to happen, much more of a problem with an open diffed vehicle.

From my experience driving double diff locked 4wds drive line strain is considerably less as you don't need wheel speed to tackle obstacles, you also are less likely to bind a wheel up against an obstacle. You can tackle things a lot slower and with much more control than with open diffs.


Just beat me to it mate, that's my understanding as well!!

Cheers,

Disco teddy
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 10, 2013, 06:51:12 PM
To true....i kinda liken a set of lockers to that of an insurance policy.....U pay thru the nose for something u may only need a few times,but perhaps the peace of mind knowing that if u slip into a situation like the hilux above,no winch etc etc ,then perhaps lockers is the answer :cheers:


the hilux is mine, now off the road but still a good toy.  Locked front and rear and with a winch.  I like the hard stuff and enjoying having a bit of fun and enjoy using the lockers.  While I have been in plenty of situations where the lockers are used, and at times not used in the conventional manner, there have been times where the lockers still do not do the job and you have to winch. 

Yes lockers do make situations easy, I would not rely solely on lockers and enjoy having the insurance of a winch.   As well there are a lot more incidents you can use a winch for a lot of other uses then what diff locks can do.

(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/7617/owmk.jpg)

(http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/540/43cy.jpg)

(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/7426/r2mo.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: weeds on November 11, 2013, 07:24:06 AM
......with diff locks you can get REALLY stuck........

lol......i try to leave my fronter locker up my sleeve. if i am struggling with the rear locker than i start to look for alternatives

most modern car have LSDs and or traction control which are handt

my rig just has open diffs and no traction control.........the previous owner fitted lockers, i don't brag about them...its nice to have them as a back up
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: jimc1 on November 12, 2013, 10:25:44 AM
Most modern 4wd's have traction control and this has similar effect to lockers. Only down side is it uses your brake on the spinning wheel. Of course there are limitations with traction control...it's just I have not found them yet, but I am no extreme 4wder.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Symon on November 12, 2013, 10:51:00 AM
For the average person going camping/four wheel driving diff locks are just bragging rights. Until you go to the extreme out and away camping spots with a lot of very rough tracks or extremely steep climbs your diff locks will very rarely if never be used. For the price you will spend on fitting the diff locks you could buy the better off road tyres and a bloody good winch and have a fair amount of change left over .  I class diff locks as a want not a need.

Listen to this man. Spot on.

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Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 12, 2013, 01:03:01 PM
Yep what he says.   If I need to use the Locker, I want be towing a camper
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: elle.mac on November 12, 2013, 05:48:21 PM
When we bought our Prado the origional owner had it well setup with rock sliders, bash plates and rear air lockers - in the 2 years we have had it we have only ever used the Air lockers once and that was due to a guy tearing up the track up a hill and making it difficult to get traction so it was alot easier to get up with the lockers on.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: cyberess on November 12, 2013, 05:53:40 PM
I think a few people are missing a point with Axle Diff lockers --  and a diff locker should be considered to good factory optional extra or a good decision maker when purchasing a new 4WD, if the locker is included as standard kit. and there quite a few 4WD makers that now include Diff lockers as standard.
Such as:

Maybe a few people can help me complete this list what 4WD have rear axle diff lockers as "STANDARD" equipment or available as "FACTORY" extra.

Why Diff lockers are good  -- and not just for bragging rights, a good locker setup, actually improves safety, and gives less chance of damage, due to allowing slower 4wd driving over rough and  heavily rutted tracks.  I mean without a locker it's sometimes needed to bounce a vehicle over a obstacle, due to lifting wheel off the ground, where a locker would allow the vehicle to  drive over the obstacle  slowly.

About traction control  -- yes that is good as well, but traction control has known to steal power from a vehicle just at the wrong time, and that can be a bit of a pain.

 :cheers:

Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: GUEY on November 12, 2013, 07:21:01 PM
Diff Lockers - Why? Throw a set of ARB air/oil leakers in and you will keep asking yourself that question over and over.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: CRW on November 12, 2013, 07:47:47 PM

Diff Lockers - Why? Throw a set of ARB air/oil leakers in and you will keep asking yourself that question over and over.


I don't understand your comment, I have ARB Air Lockers in the Front and Rear of my 200 series, they don't leak and provide assistance when the going gets rough, especially when in 4wd and towing the camper trailer


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Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: rodw on November 12, 2013, 07:59:07 PM
I don't understand your comment, I have ARB Air Lockers in the Front and Rear of my 200 series, they don't leak and provide assistance when the going gets rough, especially when in 4wd and towing the camper trailer


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Of course yours don't leak but if not installed correctly, they can leak air around an O ring inside the diff and if you have not fitted diff breathers, diff oil can come back up the air line and leak out the exhaust valve on the solenoid.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: CRW on November 12, 2013, 08:01:15 PM

Of course yours don't leak but if not installed correctly, they can leak air around an O ring inside the diff and if you have not fitted diff breathers, diff oil can come back up the air line and leak out the exhaust valve on the solenoid.


Anything can go wrong if things aren't installed correctly, but you just can't discount these because there maybe a chance they aren't installed correctly


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Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: KeithB on November 12, 2013, 08:08:57 PM
Wouldn't lockers make life a bit easier if you were towing a heavy camper on bush tracks?
It seems that 99% of most tracks are fine. But then you hit a dodgy bit and have to decide whether to press on or turn around.
Lockers might be nice, but only if you have a winch. I'd imagine that, when you are stuck with lockers, your are SERIOUSLY stuck.
What's the consensus?
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: GUEY on November 12, 2013, 08:14:33 PM
I don't understand your comment, I have ARB Air Lockers in the Front and Rear of my 200 series, they don't leak and provide assistance when the going gets rough, especially when in 4wd and towing the camper trailer


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1 - Twin locked Toyota Hilux owned for 6 years that suffered air leaks. Air compressor had to run almost constantly to keep them engaged. Arb fixed twice. One fix was to add a valve to try and fix.  Was an off the shelf item from arb that never worked. They don't sell them anymore.
2 - Twin locked Nissan Patrol owned 5 years  that has suffered 3 times with oil leaks. Seals leak letting oil up the the air line. When air is on it pressurises the line not the locker. Locker won't   engage when this happens.  Had Arb fully strip and rebuild both lockers after the 2nd attempt to fix (by blowing out the line) and 3rd failure 4wdriving. Hope this explains my reasoning
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Bird on November 12, 2013, 08:14:52 PM
Quote from: KeithB
Wouldn't lockers make life a bit easier if you were towing a heavy camper on bush tracks?
It seems that 99% of most tracks are fine. But then you hit a dodgy bit and have to decide whether to press on or turn around.
Lockers might be nice, but only if you have a winch. I'd imagine that, when you are stuck with lockers, your are SERIOUSLY stuck.
What's the consensus?
consensus is
Quote from: doggie
For the average person going camping/four wheel driving diff locks are just bragging rights. Until you go to the extreme out and away camping spots with a lot of very rough tracks or extremely steep climbs your diff locks will very rarely if never be used
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Symon on November 12, 2013, 09:43:18 PM
Wouldn't lockers make life a bit easier if you were towing a heavy camper on bush tracks?
It seems that 99% of most tracks are fine. But then you hit a dodgy bit and have to decide whether to press on or turn around.
Lockers might be nice, but only if you have a winch. I'd imagine that, when you are stuck with lockers, your are SERIOUSLY stuck.
What's the consensus?

Consensus is for 99% of people they aren't needed.

I've driven some pretty hairy tracks and for most of the time the lockers are off.  If I was to put numbers to it I would say 95% of the time they are off, 4% of the time the rear locker would be on, and 1% of the time the front and rear would be on.

I wonder if those who say that they use theirs a lot are actually using them because they actually need them, or using them because they have them.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 12, 2013, 10:05:57 PM
Agree with you Symon.  I use my lockers cause I go and find something to use them on and they (the lockers) are only needed for a couple of seconds at a time and in similar figures to what you say 4% for the rear and 1% for the front.  Rest of the time they are not needed. 

As per the Original Post, about what diff locks are?  the question was more about the centre diff rather then the axle diffs.  For what they original poster asked the Centre Diff lock will suffice for what they need.  As others have posted good A/T tyres and the sense of security of a winch and you don't need lockers to have fun
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: 02-SR5 on November 12, 2013, 10:30:29 PM
Do you guys engage them first, or wait till your stuck, then engage them?

Me, I engage them first.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Symon on November 12, 2013, 10:38:11 PM
Do you guys engage them first, or wait till your stuck, then engage them?

Me, I engage them first.

If you engage them first, and you get stuck, then you are REALLY stuck.  If you get stuck without them in, then you have a small chance of putting the lockers in and backing out.

Having said that, if it was a water crossing, I'd put them in first.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 13, 2013, 09:26:33 AM
Do you guys engage them first, or wait till your stuck, then engage them?

Me, I engage them first.

Bit of both.  If it is a common used track and you don't want to damage the track (or the veh) or it is something you just want or need to drive, then engage them first.   If is is a play section (by that I mean not common used track or if it is it one for locker only) then go and play.  Best way to find out what your vehicle is truly capable off, learn to pick the right line to drive it. 
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: WilSurf on November 13, 2013, 10:10:45 AM
I have the e-locker in the front and use it as a precaution.
It will mean less chance of spinning wheels, thus less damage to car and tracks.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Bird on November 13, 2013, 10:23:14 AM
I think the vast majority of people
- dont know the capabilities of a std 4wd with good tyres
- need to do some form of driver training to show them the capabilities of a std 4wd with good tyres and how far they can get without spinning wheels.
- what accessories are really needed, not what the 18yr old with a 12ft lifted unroadworthy V8 Shitbox on bald tyres at the local 4wd store tells them they need.... (EG: bloke in my club who was sold crawler gears, 35's, 4inch lift, chip, exhaust, twin lockers, compressor, air tank, dual batteries, etc etc just for 1 track that he found diffiicult that most of us have made on 33's and no locker, no crawlers etc)...


Basic things like learn how tyre pressures affect tyres and control offroad, throttle control, high/low range and when to use which, picking lines, taking other routes, track prep, and more.. you will get further with that than lockers.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on November 13, 2013, 10:52:12 AM
I used to do a fair bit of fitting for an ARB store years ago and we fitted a lot of air lockers. 95% were for bragging rights as were most winches. A few were for those who went out of their way to find somewhere to use their lockers and winch.

It's a lot like cameras. Most people with DSLR's worth $2000 have absoluetly no idea how to use them and take a crap pic, but apparently you need them. Those who can use a camera generally take a better shot with an iphone than the one with the "bragging rights" DSLR.
Then there's those with $15K worth of lenses, getting up at stupid o'clock in the morning to take that "perfect" shot of the sun coming up. They go out of their way to find and capture that shot. As with the diff locks, these people are probably 5% of the DSLR owners.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if most who knock diff locks own a DSLR camera, just for bragging rights.   ::)

Shane.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: DannyG on November 13, 2013, 11:15:23 AM

I used to do a fair bit of fitting for an ARB store years ago and we fitted a lot of air lockers. 95% were for bragging rights as were most winches. A few were for those who went out of their way to find somewhere to use their lockers and winch.

It's a lot like cameras. Most people with DSLR's worth $2000 have absoluetly no idea how to use them and take a crap pic, but apparently you need them. Those who can use a camera generally take a better shot with an iphone than the one with the "bragging rights" DSLR.
Then there's those with $15K worth of lenses, getting up at stupid o'clock in the morning to take that "perfect" shot of the sun coming up. They go out of their way to find and capture that shot. As with the diff locks, these people are probably 5% of the DSLR owners.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if most who knock diff locks own a DSLR camera, just for bragging rights.   ::)

Shane.

I don't bag diff locks but I own a DSLR camera and I can't use it :P
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: fishfinder on November 13, 2013, 12:01:06 PM
people will steal anything now days i might have to find a way to lock my diffs
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Symon on November 13, 2013, 01:34:16 PM
I used to do a fair bit of fitting for an ARB store years ago and we fitted a lot of air lockers. 95% were for bragging rights as were most winches. A few were for those who went out of their way to find somewhere to use their lockers and winch.

It's a lot like cameras. Most people with DSLR's worth $2000 have absoluetly no idea how to use them and take a crap pic, but apparently you need them. Those who can use a camera generally take a better shot with an iphone than the one with the "bragging rights" DSLR.
Then there's those with $15K worth of lenses, getting up at stupid o'clock in the morning to take that "perfect" shot of the sun coming up. They go out of their way to find and capture that shot. As with the diff locks, these people are probably 5% of the DSLR owners.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if most who knock diff locks own a DSLR camera, just for bragging rights.   ::)

Shane.

I have a PTO winch, lockers and two DSLRs with a heap of lenses.  Just what are you trying to say here?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Marcus73 on November 13, 2013, 01:59:36 PM
Bragger ;) :) :D


Sent from the machine that goes..... Bing!
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 13, 2013, 04:52:04 PM
Two trucks, one daily drive, one unregistered, two winches, 4 lockers and one DSLR
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: fishfinder on November 13, 2013, 05:51:14 PM
can you lock a DSLR   ????
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: McGirr on November 13, 2013, 06:57:45 PM
I have a PTO winch, lockers and two DSLRs with a heap of lenses.  Just what are you trying to say here?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

All I can say is that seeing Symon tackle the OTL at the Cape with ease , winch out people being stuck and take amazing photos.

Disclaimer: he winches me out as I don't have a winch or lockers and have a basic camera. Plus we use his pics for the magazine write ups i do so he is in the top 5%  ;D

Mark
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: dazzler on November 13, 2013, 07:14:01 PM

It's a lot like cameras. Most people with DSLR's worth $2000 have absoluetly no idea how to use them and take a crap pic, but apparently you need them. Those who can use a camera generally take a better shot with an iphone than the one with the "bragging rights" DSLR.
Then there's those with $15K worth of lenses, getting up at stupid o'clock in the morning to take that "perfect" shot of the sun coming up. They go out of their way to find and capture that shot. As with the diff locks, these people are probably 5% of the DSLR owners.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if most who knock diff locks own a DSLR camera, just for bragging rights.   ::)

Shane.

Did a DSLR fall on you as a kid?   ;D
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Doweymex on November 13, 2013, 07:26:06 PM
I understand the point of lockers and what they do...but if I was ever in a spot that required lockers, then I'm in the wrong spot.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: ozbogwam on November 13, 2013, 08:13:11 PM

I understand the point of lockers and what they do...but if I was ever in a spot that required lockers, then I'm in the wrong spot.

really? You've never gone 4wding? Track conditions can change suddenly with the weather. You've never had to tow a trailer up a slippery slope.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Doweymex on November 13, 2013, 08:24:32 PM
really? You've never gone 4wding? Track conditions can change suddenly with the weather. You've never had to tow a trailer up a slippery slope.
Obviously I shouldn't have been there in the first place without lockers though. If I need to rely on them to get me out then probably shouldn't have been there...for me, not others. There's the difference. I also wouldn't go into a place without someone else where I would need them. Plenty of places to get to that I've been which are good enough.
Again, this is me.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: alnjan on November 13, 2013, 09:22:21 PM
And that is the beauty of what we do.  It doesn't matter where we go or what we do the best accessory we can ever have is a mate to enjoy it with us
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: GeoffA on November 14, 2013, 06:00:40 AM
And that is the beauty of what we do.  It doesn't matter where we go or what we do the best accessory we can ever have is a mate to enjoy it with us

.....or laugh at us when we're stuck..... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Symon on November 14, 2013, 06:17:30 AM
.....or laugh at us when we're stuck..... ;D ;D

I'm sure that would never happen.

Unless you happen to be the trip organiser, and you get stuck going DOWN a hill.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: McGirr on November 14, 2013, 06:34:27 AM
I'm sure that would never happen.

Unless you happen to be the trip organiser, and you get stuck going DOWN a hill.

Yeah what a poor driver.  ;D ;D

Mark
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on November 14, 2013, 08:24:25 AM
I have a PTO winch, lockers and two DSLRs with a heap of lenses.  Just what are you trying to say here?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

Well, I guess that places you in the 5% of people who actually use them ???

Unlike the 95% of people with them who only take their kids to soccer on Sat morning and stand there with an EF 400mm lense hanging off the end of a camera that they have NFI how to turn on.  ;D

Shane.
Title: Re: Diff lockers - why?
Post by: WilSurf on November 14, 2013, 09:47:10 AM
.....or laugh at us when we're stuck..... ;D ;D

After taking pictures with our DSLRs..............