MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: McGirr on October 27, 2013, 05:24:53 PM
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Just putting it out there but regretfully imports are here to stay.
I know I am opening a can of worms but we will see more people asking about what members think of abc brand of camper etc.
Yes I know some members have bought an imported camper and had problems but some have had no problems and are happy with them.
We will never see a completely made Australian camper (95% still maybe fully Australian made) as some parts will always be imported either buy the manufacturer or their suppliers and yes they can say australian made because of the laws (50% made in australia) but that's life. Yes some company's dont exclose the truth but again that's life we have all bought things that we were told untruths about.
When members ask, they don't want to be critised for asking just opinions from current owners of certain brands who can give their honest opinions. If they have had a problem that's fine.
Most topics on subjects like these go of course most of the time. Not everyone can afford a camper $10,000 camper plus not everyone wants a second hand camper but a new one. Yes there are plenty of second hand campers these days but the fun of a new one is always an attraction. If they have problems down the track so be it, these things happen maybe more than Australian made. That's the risk all buyers take.
We all have budgets to work with and as long as people get out and enjoy camping that's the main thing.
Regretfully we will see more australian camper trailer companies close but that's something we have to accept.
This thread is not about imports v Australian made but realising this is the way things are now.
Mark
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Its a fact of life. Even holdens have less australian made parts in them now than a toyota. It comes down to doing your research before buying anything.
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Totally agree Mark, not to many people bad mouth all the imported cars that people use to pull the imported campers.
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Each to their own I suppose! I just hope these people keep in mind that you get what you pay for. A mate of mine purchased an imported camper at the same time I purchased my lifestyle ct, it has not been used more than half a dozen times and the cover is buggered, some stitching on the tent is coming apart, tow hitch came loose, fly screens tearing. These are just a few of it's issues. My camper has covered over 50 thousand k's and more nights away than I can remember and I don't have any of these issues. Only lots of red dust on the canvas. Yes the extra cost hurt at the time but looking back now I don't regret it one bit. In saying that I don't begrudge people who buy imported trailers they just need to keep in mind that all the extra things you get for your money are at a cost elsewhere. My $0.02
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Imports are here to stay I guess; but I am happy they are here, I have no regrets whatsoever.
We mostly drive imported cars and stock our house with imported appliances like computers, TV's Mobile phones, dishwashers, clothes washers/dryers to name a few. We are all happy to fill our house and our workplace with imported goods, clothes, tools and machinery.
For some reason people seem to have a big chip on their shoulder about imported CT's. I think it is hypocritical; plain and simple.
If trailer companies disclose that their trailer is imported fine. My CT is imported. The company I purchased from admitted it straight up.
My hardfloor cost $10K. I would have preferred a 2nd hand Cub, CYT or KK but I couldn't afford one. Imported trailers are making CT's more affordable for a lot of families.
What makes my blood boil is when CT companies pretend to be Oz made by lying to the customer or by advertising OZ made on their website. It is deceitful, its lying and Un-Australian.
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80% of everything we grow or have a hand in manufacturing is exported so you can imagine this conversation is being repeated in many countries around the world .
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I think it's important to understand that not all imported campers etc are the same.
And when we refer to imported I guess we are talking about Chinese products?
China manufacture quality products, in fact they manufacture a lot more than most of us realise. Apple iPods, iPads, iPhones etc spring to mind, yet we don't hesitate to buy those because they are manufactured to a strict tolerance.
I accepted Chinese products long ago. But I am cautious as to what I'm buying and what its purpose is.
Imported camping related products whether it be camper trailers or fridges, will get better to the point where good old Aussie companies are getting their product manufactured in China to a particular quality. Yes it's already happening but the poor quality imports are hurting those that are at the forefront of off shore manufacturing.
Just my opinion of course :)
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It's called opportunity/cost
these are lots of locally assembled CTs using imported componentry. Put together by Australians in Australia. can anyone show me a fully assembled overseas and then imported and retailed CT? I doubt it for the price range we are talking about here.
So, yep, there are cheap campers badly assembled here, there are also cheap campers well assembled here. So, some swaggers seek opinions from members here on various models.
Then, we usually get the expert opinions following, usually with an I know better attitude, making the op and responder wonder why they even bothered, and a little confused when they see the expert drives around in a fully imported 4x4!
Which is why I'll respond by PM from now on.
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Imports are inevitable, as is the bullish!t thrown around by some people about imports who feel compelled to justify the purchase of their expensive Australian made camper being pulled by their fully imported 4x4. I don't contribute to these debates very often because they p!ss me off.
More often than not, its about people bragging about how much money they have.
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More often than not, its about people bragging about how much money they have.
or had before spending it on a large purchase.
or even more accurate from my observations, "how much they owe".
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Nothing wrong with imports, there a good ones and bad ones. Like imported winches. The potential new owner has to do their homework before laying down any$$$$$.
The only thing I despise more than anything, is the imported companies saying they are Australian Made.
There needs to be strict rules to wear the sticker.
Assembled here does not mean made in Australia.
They should be 100% up front.
I have an imported camper, IPod, Mitsubishi Challenger and pretty much everything I own comes from overseas.
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And what I despise more than anything is ill informed opinions about a importer when questions are posed by potential buyer without any basis of fact.
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what option do we have??
manufacturing in aussie is extinct.
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And what I despise more than anything is ill informed opinions about a importer when questions are posed by potential buyer without any basis of fact.
Like what?
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Like what?
You made a claim that enztrading slap Australian made stickers on their campers. Their website make no such claims, mine had no such sticker, neither does the other ezytrail I inspected today. Yet you made this comment on a thread by a potential buyer. Where have you seen claims made by enztrading that they Australian made, or the elusive sticker?
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These are the one sold on Ebay, yes? My mate brought one the same time I got mine from G.C.....
His has ezy trading on the red and white mud flaps.
Aussie made sticker smack bang on the drawer bar and tail gate.
Show me an importer that admits 100% their campers are imported????
Just because something comes in a flat pack and assembled, does not mean it is Australian made.
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These are the one sold on Ebay, yes? My mate brought one the same time I got mine from G.C.....
Aussie made sticker smack bang on the drawer bar and tail gate.
Show me an importer that admits 100% their campers are imported????
Just because something comes in a flat pack and assembled, does not mean it is Australian made.
Well as an owner of an ezytrail, not someone who has a mate who owns one, I say this is garbage.
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I accepted imported goods long ago.
The car was imported from Nippon, and the camper was imported from NSW......
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We are very much a global economy. Whoever can make a widget cheaper will get the business. As the widget sells more, production costs decrease on a per unit basis and more additions and improvements can be made to the quality of the widget.
I had a look at the MDC in BCF today for about 1 second. Whilst it is branded as "Australian Made" it is clearly not. But it is a hell of alot better quality than my POS MDC from 4 years ago.........sell more widgets and improve your product...........don't know a business that does not evolve.
Edit.....except maybe Telstra...... ;D
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Long bow to draw comparing an imported camper with an imported car. Nissan and Toyota have spent millions of $$ on research here in oz. Then go back and build a car to meet the environment.
Am yet to see much R&D from the fly by night importers hell bent on making a $$$.
Not everyone can afford a nissan or toyota so they may buy a great wall 4x4 ute...still a 4X4 but not quite as good as the others .
Same same with campers, some are built to our conditions and cost XXX some are just built and cost less .
I will never flame a person for purchasing what they choose to ..but by the same token if you take it outback and it breaks don't get upset if I post "what did you expect"
use it for the 80% of weekend campin around aust prob no issues at all, but there are certain areas that will destroy them.
Buy it understanding the limitations as some members have :cup: and I am sure you will get years of happy use. Push/expect it to traverse areas that are the domain of custom aussie built units and it will prob fail but I doubt the manuf ever had that type of use in mind.
Happy campin ;D ;D ;D
Jet ;D ;D
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Long bow to draw comparing an imported camper with an imported car. Nissan and Toyota have spent millions of $$ on research here in oz. Then go back and build a car to meet the environment.
I reckon the only research they would do here would be for paint and upholstory fabric durability. There, that's my expert of the cuff opinion!
:cheers:
Where's mgirr, throws a bit of fuel on the fire and doesn't stick around to moderate? ;D
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I work for a company that sells and services machinery and 99% of it is imported, unfortunately there is next to no machinery being manufactured in Australia anymore. Probably 80% of our machinery now comes out of China, some Taiwanese and some European
As we all now you can some real crap out of China but where Aussie companies are prepared to work with the factories they can make a real difference to the end quality and I think in certain products this is starting to show. I think it is unrealistic to think that you could ever match (at least in the near future) the quality of, in our case the European manufacturers, but in a lot of cases it is improving. Just to keep it camper related, we supply quite a few guillotines and pressbrakes to the Aussie trailer builders to cut and fold the steel for our Aussie made trailer
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What makes me sad in this whole debate is that the company we bought our CT from has recently had to close its doors because they can no longer justify staying open. We assume a large part of this is due to people buying imported CT's. Because overseas importing is on the rise, it is putting a lot of Australian CT companies at risk of going out of business. I guess it is another area of the consumer market that will have to adapt to the changing world (like internet shopping). On a national scale it is hardly going to be noticeable but on a personal level it is a tragedy.
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what option do we have??
manufacturing in aussie is extinct.
Lots of things yes, but when I can still buy a quality Australian made product I will. My trackabout in 2010 was not lots more than a cheap option, and I know I got a better long term deal.
Imported gear can be great, it is the warranty, quality control and distributer support that becomes important.
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Kiwi,
Mate, totally agree. We purchased our first camper. Arrow Campers built in South Australia using BHP steel and 100% Australian canvas.
This was over 6 years ago. They went bust not long after. A I tried it get the zipper repaired after I broke it. I brought at the Jayco/Caravan yard on the Mooroonda Hwy in Melbourne.
I wish I kept it, I didn't really know much about campers back then.
Only paid 6k.
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I agree 100%, but show me an Australian made camper with some fruit for less than 10k.
Customline do one for just under 9k, but it is tent on trailer only. By the time you add the basics like a water tank, basic kitchen, tropical roof and some walls for the annex, your still looking at nearly 13-14k for a basic package.
To be completely, I personally believe Customline make the best sub 15k camper in Australia. This would be my choice.
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Famous last words.......................................... some say there is no such thing!
Might be interesting to know your neighbours though BD. ;D
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I agree 100%, but show me an Australian made camper with some fruit for less than 10k.
Show me a Australian made car for under $10k.
Quality isn't cheap.. you can buy campers from $2000 at the shows... dozens and I mean dozens lined up to buy the rubbish when we went few years ago...
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The Black Pearl is fully Aussie made in Dandenong . The tent is made in Bayswater , & its been dragged around by my Pajeros which l think arnt Aussie made . Price $5000 PM for details :cheers:
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Gee, I remember when it was a sin to buy from interstate ;D ;D There were even billboards. Used to piss the mexicans off no end ;D ;D ;D
KB
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Gee, I remember when it was a sin to buy from interstate ;D ;D There were even billboards. Used to piss the mexicans off no end ;D ;D ;D
KB
problem is even those stickers would be made in china these days...
It doesn't help when even the Gov dept's outsource stuff to overseas companies..
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Best idea ever
Supermarkets should have a designated Australian-only aisle, or aisles, according to a farmer who says the scheme would generate an ''absolutely huge'' boost in sales of locally grown or made goods, protect local jobs and stimulate the economy.
Kathy Dudley, a cattle farmer and spring water producer from Yolla in Tasmania's north-west, said the establishment of Australian-only aisles would sidestep the confusion created by ''weak'' labelling laws that have allowed confusing country-of-origin labels on products.
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/national/call-for-aussie-supermarkets-aisles-20131027-2w9r0.html#ixzz2ixnEhWbh
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When I bought my camp trailer I chose a Trackabout, Australian made, local dealer and suited my needs. The Trackabout is a bloody great unit and I believe I got value for my money spent.
At that time there was very little in the way of imports and I could afford the Trackabout.
If I was to have that time again with what is out there today, would I buy a Trackabout ?
Probably not.
There are some very good imported camp trailers on the market with everything that I would need for my set up.
When I first bought my camper I honestly believed that I would be using the thing a hell of a lot more than I am, so in saying this a imported trailer would do everything I want to do, go to the places I want to go, last for as long as I need and have change in my pocket to cover some travel expenses.
Would I sell my Trackabout and go and buy a imported trailer ?
NO. I have what I have, and I am very happy with my Trackabout.
cheers duggie
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When I first bought my camper I honestly believed that I would be using the thing a hell of a lot more than I am
I reckon a huge majority of people would be in that boat too.. me included.
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I own an imported trailer that was built overseas and assembled in Australia, and I have not had any quality issues at all. It has stood up to every bit of abuse I'm capable of putting it through, and I'm rarely able to go camping without people want to have a good look at it.
It was by no means cheap, but I got what I paid for.
It's not weather or not the product is imported. No matter where it is made, it's the quality of the build that matters, and weather the price fits within your budget.
If I could have bought a comparable product, at near the same price, that was fully made in Austrilia, I would.
But I couldnt, so I bought a product that was built in South Africa, and assembled in Brisbane, by a company that stands behind it's product, and activily promotes the products heritage.
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all,
There has been a fair bit of cleaning up in this thread. Must admit, as soon as I read the title, I knew it was coming.
Is it so hard to just be respectful of each other and be a little bit aware of what you are writing down.
Please try and keep it all where it should be or another topic will be shut down and more people will be taking forced holidays. If you object greatly to what someone is saying / has said, report it and let us deal with it properly.
Cheers, Craig
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.time for a
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Hi Campers
I purchased an MDC camper and at no time did they try to hide the fact that they were made in China. I purchased the semi offroad v3 version for $3999 plus a $399 mattress plus a couple of stretcher poles and went up to coopers plains to pick it up in April 2013.It has now travelled over 9000ks and I have camped in it 6 times now, the latest being at Echuca in Vic. in really horrendous winds with the full annexe up and although I was in panic mode it survived better than me. We have camped in the high country in wind and rain and travelled up to the Flinders and on to Farina, Marree onto the Oodnadatta track and down the borefield track to Roxby Downs and back home to Riverton camping on the way. The only problem was the pop rivets popped out on a gas strut used to assist opening the lid on the trailer. I dont know about the longevity with this trailer but I suspect that it will do many more trips.
Bill
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I buy want I can afford.
Having said that I spend many hours researching product/price/quality, then I try to buy local.
Sometimes it's local, other times it's not and if it is online I try to buy from Aussie stores.
What more can ya do?
:cheers:
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I don't care care what you drive or what you camp in, everyones is welcome for a beer with me anytime
swannie
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I don't care care what you drive or what you camp in, everyones is welcome for a beer with me anytime, as long as you don't drink XXXX
:)
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.time for a
(http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/cremo1/Smileys/GroupHug.gif)
I still say its time to add these... index.php?topic=16958.0
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Kumbya ma lord kumbya! ;D
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I have a mate who works in the fruit n veg department at the local supermarket and he reckons the amount of fruit n veg wasted is amazing. People pick through looking for unblemished products and don't care if it's from the local farm five mins down the road or from some foreign country.
I try my best at the deli to pick products made in Oz over the imported but when it's $5 a kilo less for the imported and most of the rest of the groceries are foreign owned, well it's hard to buy local.
Try and get twenty years out of a fridge now days, not going to happen whether it's made in this great country or overseas. Things are made to wear out just past there warranty now and if we are all really honest with ourselves the wallet rules our heart most of the time.
Time to accept imported products guys n gals, they are here to stay and unfortunately at the cost of Aussie jobs
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Fresh fruit and Veg i will only buy aussie grown.
I used to be self sufficient throught the warmer months in melb for all our fruit and veggies, so much so i was supplying my neighbours and they would supply me with slaughtered meat fresh from the farm.
My Van and trailer are both Aussie made :D
Van in Melb same with the trailer just in my back yard.
I dont care what you got, how much you paid for it or what it does better than others, i just care that you are out enjoying this country of ours.
heck i am doing it in a Panelvan that reverses back into my tent and a homebuilt trailer, over 10 000kms and 4 states and counting!
Gecko
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The whole import or not question is so strange
As a generalization of the Australian public ( not necessarily this forum) most people will buy the cheaper product or utilise that as a negotiating tool for larger items,
But then there is an up cry when a any fracturing plant closes, whether that is Heinz or Electrolux , ford, etc. but most people wont support these because they either don't make the right product or it's too dear or combination of both, in reality these companies are going broke due to high input costs, read labour in Australia, I am not saying everyone needs a payout or work for $5 an hour but that is what we are competing against, over time there costs will increase but what too do. Ive had a plant color down and relocate to Brazil taking 350 jobs. Not fun, but it's the modern reality, the customer wants this product for $5, we can make it in oz at a cost of $4.99 or overseas for $4 landed , I know what I would do. Even some batteries are dry imports.
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This question always seems to actually be two questions
Is this camper "good" quality?
How much of it is made in Australia?
The Conquerors are a good case in point. There are few people that complain about people buying South African campers. I suspect because they are a good product and not cheap. I assume that some of the top end campertrailer manufacturers are not happy about then though. :laugh:
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For our CT purchase it was a hard decision. Me and the Mrs wanted a hard floor camper. We were looking for something second hand for .$20k max. This proved to be quite difficult to find one in Cairns. We searched for about 6 months trolling the Internet for trailers in North QLD all the way down to Mackay. We did find quite a few for sale in Brisbane but the 3500km return journey didn't appeal to us. I even had a friend of ours who used to own Cape York Trailers. No luck.
We decided not to get a China CT as I had heard and read all of the horror stories about Chinese trailers like bird sh!t welds, holes blown through steel with on oxy, wires just twisted together not soldered, wiring not fused or colour coded, wiring thru steel without rubber grommets, canvas so thin you can see through it, rubber seals not lining up, crappy Treg copy hitches, the list goes on.
In the end I decided to have another look at the imports.
I liked the look of the MDC and Leisure Matters hard floor range and price but realised they were from China even though MDC stated to me that they were made in OZ. leisure matters were upfront and honest in saying theirs was from China.
I guess MDC think by exporting Australian iron ore to China and getting it back in the form of a CT equates to Australian made. >:(
I found another company whom just imports the trailers and on sells them without checks or warranty for $10k. That was going to save us $5k straight up.
We ordered the CT from the importer and waited a couple of months. We knew that there would be a good chance that with a close inspection on arrival that we could be selling it on Gumtree the next day if it wasn't worth fixing up. I was pretty confident that we would at least get our money back. Nothing to loose.
The CT turned up and exceeded our expectations in a big way. I am not a welder but I have been welding for 30 years and own my own gear. I cannot fault the welding. The structure is solid and well built. I am sure it has been copied from something engineered here in OZ.
Wiring neat, colour coded, joined correctly and protected with grommets. The Canvas is great, stitched well and not thin. All openings and closing a worked as they should with good seals.
There were problems, cheap bearings, hubs, shockies, crappy Chinese copy hitch and the rear swing away carrier wasn't strong enough. I have fixed all of these issues, modded quite a few more things for personal choice and improved the gas bottle and jerry can holders.
The cost is bugger all. A lot of hours though but I don't mind spending time in the shed.
We are really happy with what we have bought and more importantly what we have saved. The CT still doesn't even owe us $14k. I got a mate who is a boiler maker in the Army to check it out. He was impressed and found one weld on the whole CT that he wanted to fix.
I know it is not a KK or CYT but it is not $40k either. We have a hard floor CT with annexe, lights, slide out kitchen with 4 burner stove and sink. 100 lt water tank with pump. 2 fridge slide/storage areas, tool box and ind suspension.
Now i have modified it, I am confident it will make it through Cape York. Will it get damaged? Probably but that would be expected with any CT. I have travelled throughout the Cape for over 30 years and I have seen major changes making it more accessible. A.J. Has just returned from his big trip up the Cape and informed me he saw quite a few CT's like mine (without suspension mods) in some real interesting and challenging areas.
It does give me the sh!ts when people tell me my CT is a piece of crap that will fall apart on its first trip. These comments come not from owners of Chinese campers but from someone whose mates fathers uncle had one. It also gives me the Shits with hypocrites who think there is a difference between an imported car and imported CT.
At the end of the day my family is out camping and having a great time while being able to save quite a few $$$. Lets cut the crap. If others can afford $40-50k on a CT, good on you. I am not jealous. Just don't tell me what I own is crap without coming up here and having a look at it.
Muz.
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What we have to bear in mind is that there is absolutely no way that any industry in Australia where more than 30%-40% of the final price is a labour cost can compete at the bottom end of the market with Asian imports: at the top end of the market where quality and service are the drivers rather than price the Australian suppliers are doing fine. So AORC and KK have full order books stretching months into the future because they make a high quality product, offer a good service and have a warranty that they will stick to.
Buy what you want at the price you can afford, but be aware that you will never get BMW quality for a Holden price.
I used to buy a lot of GMC power tools on the basis that I would use them until they wore out, then if they had proved useful I would replace them with a quality brand. Most of them have gone to the tip by now: some were only marginally useful and have not been replaced, some have been replaced with quality brands, and some are still working perfectly after many years (how long ago did GMC go bust?). The point is I knew I was buying a cheap import and I was prepared to take the risk - and in many cases that paid off - but for stuff that I used constantly I was happy to pay the extra for quality (OK, none of my tools are made in Australia but that isn't the point, it's knowing what you're paying for that matters).
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What we have to bear in mind is that there is absolutely no way that any industry in Australia where more than 30%-40% of the final price is a labour cost can compete at the bottom end of the market with Asian imports: at the top end of the market where quality and service are the drivers rather than price the Australian suppliers are doing fine. So AORC and KK have full order books stretching months into the future because they make a high quality product, offer a good service and have a warranty that they will stick to.
Buy what you want at the price you can afford, but be aware that you will never get BMW quality for a Holden price.
I used to buy a lot of GMC power tools on the basis that I would use them until they wore out, then if they had proved useful I would replace them with a quality brand. Most of them have gone to the tip by now: some were only marginally useful and have not been replaced, some have been replaced with quality brands, and some are still working perfectly after many years (how long ago did GMC go bust?). The point is I knew I was buying a cheap import and I was prepared to take the risk - and in many cases that paid off - but for stuff that I used constantly I was happy to pay the extra for quality (OK, none of my tools are made in Australia but that isn't the point, it's knowing what you're paying for that matters).
Well said Pipeliner, about what I do too
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Long bow to draw comparing an imported camper with an imported car. Nissan and Toyota have spent millions of $$ on research here in oz. Then go back and build a car to meet the environment.
I think you make a great point. Toyota gained immeasurable R&D from the Lexus program and it shows in the quality of their vehicles today. When they set out to build lexus the global R&D was huge and included replicating road surfaces from the worlds major cities into their testing track to design the vehicles to suit. Very clever.
Don't get the need to buy a new cheap one when you can get a better quality (in general) second hand camper for the same. But then again, I have only ever bought one new car in my life LOL.
Have fun.
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With the advent of the likes of Ebay we definitely are a Global Market. As for a Global Economy we fall a long way short, not until every country is on comparable pay scales and interest rates can we really be a Global Economy. Play on words I know but when it comes to our leaders, past and present talking about a Global Economy, Australia at the top end of the scale will lose industry, manufacture and farming to a cheaper country everytime.
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Yeah its a bit of an oxymoron. I was at a seminar yesterday given by Maq Bank and the economist reckons our rates have to come off because they are way to high in comparison with other, even, AAA rated countries and we are going to suffer from investment money buying out countries assets. All you have to do is look at the chinese investing in out farming land............
I think we are still on top of the ladder in terms of how expensive it is to live here.
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Yep going to be a bit of roller coaster ride the next decade or so
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I have no problem with imported products. I have a problem with inferior products and poor customer service. Unfortunately in the camper industry the 3 all seem to go hand in hand. Doesn't have to be like that.