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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: mrdenn1s on October 25, 2013, 05:12:54 PM

Title: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: mrdenn1s on October 25, 2013, 05:12:54 PM
...has coils all round and has a payload of over 1 tonne, yet other manufacturers either:

1) Give you a ute with 1 tonne but you get leaf suspension; or
2) Yet get coils but a reduced payload of maybe 650kg if you are lucky

That is just shizen
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Bird on October 25, 2013, 05:58:37 PM
how can that be though.. 9 out of 10 landrovers ever sold are still on the road.

(http://insanity.blogs.lchwelcome.org/files/2011/03/Applause_meter_1.jpg)



The other one made it home :D
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Black-Pig on October 25, 2013, 05:59:28 PM
It also has the seating position of a truck, and feels like it when you drive one!
Although the old TD5 90 Series (short wheel base) was pretty nippy around my uncles farm in the UK...
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: mrdenn1s on October 25, 2013, 05:59:35 PM
*clap clap*

Question still stands though
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: austastar on October 25, 2013, 06:34:56 PM
Hi,
  my 130 cab chassis has a capacity of 1.7 tonne, can legally have a 3m long tray, and cost $39,000 new three years ago.


Mr T and Mr N just weren't in the race.


I'm a very happy camper.


cheers
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Spurio on October 26, 2013, 04:32:31 AM
It is because ... according to today tonight ..... everyone is getting fatter and they need to transfer the weight carrying capacity from the tray to the cab  >:D

Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: rodw on October 26, 2013, 06:59:08 AM
...has coils all round and has a payload of over 1 tonne, yet other manufacturers either:

1) Give you a ute with 1 tonne but you get leaf suspension; or
2) Yet get coils but a reduced payload of maybe 650kg if you are lucky

That is just shizen

Cos the Landy is not made in Thailand silly!

Might sound crazy but there are huge tax breaks in Thailand for the manufacturers if they build utes with leaf springs and drum brakes! That's why they all have them! Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Ford are all made there!
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: mrdenn1s on October 26, 2013, 08:27:42 AM
Cos the Landy is not made in Thailand silly!

Might sound crazy but there are huge tax breaks in Thailand for the manufacturers if they build utes with leaf springs and drum brakes! That's why they all have them! Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Ford are all made there!

Really?

Why is that?
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: TheWall on October 26, 2013, 08:49:58 AM
I have a slightly different take on this.

The Defender carries on from the sixties and was never meant to be car for 'town' use. It is built for a particular purpose and simply is a pig to drive as a daily driver- I used to manage a Land Rover sales yard to I feel I am able to 'defend' my position here. It also cannot comply with safety regs and is particularly poor in side impacts as the seats are actually outside any real protection.

More modern uses are designed for daily use and are much better and safer for daily application...

So, my two cents...buy what will suit your main purpose. The Triton/lux/ranger brigade are like cross trainers in shoes...not specifically awesome at anything but good enough at a wide range of activities to give offer flexibility to use both as a daily driver and adventure vehicle.

If you want a car that can carry a truck, don't expect it to be great at other uses.

Matt



Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: rodw on October 26, 2013, 10:24:30 AM
Really?

Why is that?

Don't really know, you'd have to ask the Thai Government about the tax situation but it has been a hugely successful policy in attracting global manufacturing to their country.

There is something about the Defender. Every time I see one I want one but I think it would be a recipe for divorce! They are not renowned for comfort but are built for purpose, not to maximise sales opportunities. They really deserve to live 1000 km from the bitumen in their natural habitat. Set me free!
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: mrdenn1s on October 26, 2013, 11:22:37 AM
I have a slightly different take on this.

The Defender carries on from the sixties and was never meant to be car for 'town' use. It is built for a particular purpose and simply is a pig to drive as a daily driver- I used to manage a Land Rover sales yard to I feel I am able to 'defend' my position here. It also cannot comply with safety regs and is particularly poor in side impacts as the seats are actually outside any real protection.

More modern uses are designed for daily use and are much better and safer for daily application...

So, my two cents...buy what will suit your main purpose. The Triton/lux/ranger brigade are like cross trainers in shoes...not specifically awesome at anything but good enough at a wide range of activities to give offer flexibility to use both as a daily driver and adventure vehicle.

If you want a car that can carry a truck, don't expect it to be great at other uses.

Matt





Matt

I'm not defending the case for the defender (sorry)

I asking why one manufacturer can give us coil sprung 1 tonne payload wagons and everyone else seems incapable of even getting close
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Steffo1 on October 26, 2013, 12:20:54 PM
A mate of mine last year posed this question to a then recently retired Toyota suit & the reply was........" It's what you people have asked for!!"
I've said an another forum that if I was spending $80-$100 grand (or more) on a so called 4x4, I'd want it to perform like they're advertised, not have to throw another 10-20 grand at it to bring it up to scratch. Just look at the factory tyres. Not much different to a Camry!
It's why both my 4x4 are '90s models.
Steve
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: UIZ733 on October 26, 2013, 12:39:21 PM
Why would the Japs (they have the monopoly) bother changing anything? Their current designs are walking out the door and the consumer seems happy.
Laughing all the way to the bank. Easy.
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Steffo1 on October 26, 2013, 01:00:05 PM
Laughing all the way to the bank. Easy.
As are the "After Market" brigade one would think although it may be more cut throat than I realise as I very rarely need their services. (Touch wood)
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Bird on October 26, 2013, 01:01:58 PM
Quote from: mrdenn1s
I asking why one manufacturer can give us coil sprung 1 tonne payload wagons and everyone else seems incapable of even getting close
The majority of Yota/Missan/Nitzabushi/etc the majority take sweety to tennis once a week...
1% of them ever see off road. So they build them to what the market asks for.


As someone else said the Dudfender is unchanged since 1860, it sells, it was built for a purpose. That's why none of them take sweety to tennis or lite soy mocca latte' with artificial sweeteners with the ladies on Thursdays.
IT doesn't sell 1000's a year, its just the offroad version of the $20,000,000 Latte' Rover.
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: austastar on October 26, 2013, 01:21:56 PM
Yep, the D130 has the turning circle of the Ark Royal, and it is not at home in a suburban parking lot.
Nobody, but nobody has dared to drive into it though, more than I can say for our little Corolla.


Where do you park a defender ute with a towbar on one end, steel side steps and a bull bar on the front??


Any where you want!


cheers
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Black-Pig on October 26, 2013, 02:09:11 PM



Where do you park a defender ute with a towbar on one end, steel side steps and a bull bar on the front??


At the mechanics?
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Swannie on October 26, 2013, 02:11:45 PM
Why is it that when I look at the defender I know its so old skool yet want one?

Swannie
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: austastar on October 26, 2013, 02:26:35 PM
At the mechanics?


Yep, every 10,000 km for an oil change.


cheers
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Steffo1 on October 26, 2013, 03:26:26 PM
Why is it that when I look at the defender I know its so old skool yet want one?

Swannie
Impeccable taste in a TRUE 4X4.
Not one with the MAMIL bike racks on the rear or "Such & Such School Rowing"
What a bunch of tools!
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: corynmelnkids on October 26, 2013, 04:08:39 PM
I would love to own one but the wife has clearly stated NO.
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Swannie on October 26, 2013, 04:09:51 PM
I would love to own one but the wife has clearly stated NO.

I must be unique my wife is saying the defender is the one I should be buying!!
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: mrdenn1s on October 26, 2013, 04:30:54 PM
The way I see it, buy a Patrol or LandCruiser...

add a winch
roof racks
bull bar
fridge
people
fuel
other bits for camping....

You exceed the weight limits

Buy a defender, do what you want.

Can we have 1 tonne rating coils on the Jap cars please??
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: GregS on October 26, 2013, 05:22:10 PM
Would love a defender but auto isn't an option.
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Bird on October 26, 2013, 05:46:23 PM
The way I see it, buy a Patrol or LandCruiser...

add a winch
roof racks
bull bar
fridge
people
fuel
other bits for camping....

You exceed the weight limits

Buy a defender, do what you want.

Can we have 1 tonne rating coils on the Jap cars please??
Get a GVM increase fitted before you buy the new 4b... Patrols can go 3500 with GVM kit. But your stuck with a Shit tiny high strung engine.
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: broncos11 on October 26, 2013, 05:55:32 PM
My gripe with the Defender is that if you're 6ft and over forget it. Which seems ridiculous in such a big vehicle. I was looking at one a while ago up at Southport and the salesman came up to me and the first thing he said was "don't even think about it.You'll be way to cramped"!!!

Dave
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: austastar on October 26, 2013, 06:43:16 PM
My gripe with the Defender is that if you're 6ft and over forget it.



Solved! (http://www.expeditioncentre.com.au/online-store/land-rover-defender-acc-/mulgo-seat-rail-extensions.html)


cheers


p.s. I'm just over 6ft, but can't put the seats further back in a single cab. It's quite comfy to drive though.
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Bird on October 26, 2013, 06:49:57 PM

Solved! (http://www.expeditioncentre.com.au/online-store/land-rover-defender-acc-/mulgo-seat-rail-extensions.html)


cheers


p.s. I'm just over 6ft, but can't put the seats further back in a single cab. It's quite comfy to drive though.
yea, but your still stuck with the rest of it (http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd234/cremo1/Smileys/devil.gif)
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: BLKWDW on October 26, 2013, 07:04:18 PM
Do any of the land rover utes seat 6.
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: GGV8Cruza on October 26, 2013, 07:23:10 PM
What about one of these, solves all the problems. One went past work today and turned heads

http://www.iveco.com.au/index.php/off-road/daily-4x4

GG
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: achjimmy on October 26, 2013, 07:34:55 PM
My gripe with the Defender is that if you're 6ft and over forget it. Which seems ridiculous in such a big vehicle. I was looking at one a while ago up at Southport and the salesman came up to me and the first thing he said was "don't even think about it.You'll be way to cramped"!!!

Dave


I agree, it's not just leg room, you need the window down so you can hang out the cab.
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: 2Psinapatrol on October 26, 2013, 11:49:33 PM
I would take the defender over the Iveco. There trucks are rubbish.
I will not even go into there customer support.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: westvic on October 27, 2013, 06:14:45 AM
What about one of these, solves all the problems. One went past work today and turned heads

http://www.iveco.com.au/index.php/off-road/daily-4x4

GG


BUT in the specs it has leaf at all 4 corners!

Nice concept though
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Steffo1 on October 27, 2013, 07:16:24 AM

I agree, it's not just leg room, you need the window down so you can hang out the cab.

http://www.mulgo.com.au/portfolio/mulgo-seat-rail-extensions/
Here you go chaps!!
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: achjimmy on October 27, 2013, 07:55:04 AM
http://www.mulgo.com.au/portfolio/mulgo-seat-rail-extensions/
Here you go chaps!!


Awesome and is there  a perpex bubble avaiable so I can hang out the window frame and not get wet when its raining?
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Beatle on October 27, 2013, 12:01:07 PM
...has coils all round and has a payload of over 1 tonne, yet other manufacturers either:

1) Give you a ute with 1 tonne but you get leaf suspension; or
2) Yet get coils but a reduced payload of maybe 650kg if you are lucky

That is just shizen

You are assuming coils are somehow inherently better.   Why?    I've had two 80 series and still not convinced that they ride any better than my old 60 series. 

As far as the manufacturers are concerned, it's cheaper to use leaf suspension for higher payloads.  The leaf does the suspending, and the locating, and spreads the load along the chassis better.

On the other hand, people are having a dig at the 'Fender for being an old design.  However that old design started with leaf suspension all 'round, and migrated to coils in the 1970s (with the 110 chassis?).  So on that front, the other manufacturers are decades behind.
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: 2Psinapatrol on October 27, 2013, 07:10:56 PM
It's not the coils as such. The actual suspension setup is what is good on the defended. I hate to say it but better then anything Nissan or Toyota have produced.

In fact the Nissan would have to be one of the worst.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: Dion on October 28, 2013, 12:16:24 PM
Land Rover have always known how to make a vehicle ride well.  Probably only in very recent times have utes been made by the Japanese that are a reasonable match for it.

I too don't understand the fascination with leaf rear on utes, even the Amarok has them. 
Title: Re: Why is it that Land rover can build a Defender that...
Post by: disco1 on October 28, 2013, 04:18:25 PM
Well I am just a old fart that drives a hardtop fender took it to the cape last year loves water and this year have been from Melbourne to Lorella Springs (two months) and up to Darwin (two weeks )then took three and a half days  to get to Brisbane ( week ) bought a camper and then onto miles for another two months and on the boat to Tassie on the 20th Nov. easy to drive carried 80 Ltrs fuel and
70 Ltrs water in the back does not use or drip any oil so far and has been over some rough ground up at the Springs making roads so this vehicle suits me for what I want to do best of all no electronics to get wet.

Em driving it
To get to Brisbane picked up a camper trailer and then onto MIles